Mind Control. How would you do it right?

[Jackofhearts2005]

While this does spring from a discussion on a game thread, lets keep this game neutral so to speak. ;)

How do you want mind control recruitment to work?

How do you want vote stealing to work?

We can have examples of it working and not working in previous games but please please refrain from talking about the mechanics of it in games that are currently being played.

[Amora's_best_friend]

"Someone has taken control of your mind. Tomorrow play X must be lynched or you will die."

The trick being that they don't actually die if player X isn't lynched.

[Jackofhearts2005]

A cool idea but what happens when they realize that they don't die?

That'll work great on day 2, but not so much on day 3.

[Amora's_best_friend]

A cool idea but what happens when they realize that they don't die?

They die.


Ignorance is bliss after all.

[Magnito]

I like what I did for Meowth in Smash Bros

Power: Pay Day: You have a massive collection of gold coins. It’s time to put them to good use. During the day phase, you may PM me the name of a player. That player will have to vote for whoever you like. You may also tell them what their reason for voting must be, and they will have to use it. They will not be allowed to show even the slightest hint that they are being controlled.

[goodman]

Yeah, i agree with ABF's approach, something like

"You have been mind controlled, you must get _________ lynched today, if you fail to get ___________ lynched today you will be unable to make an action during the night phase and may die from the mental strain"

something like that, if they fail to get whoever lynched they'd have a 50/50 chance of surviving the mental strain of failing, something like that is how i'm probably gonna do it next time i have a mind controller in my game

[Darkseid Sr.]

I think forcing a lynch is a harder tactic than forcing a vote. But hey, nobody said mafia was a nice game. ;)

[JackAssterson]

The thing about mind control is it's very easy to undermine. For someone like me, being mind controlled is pretty much a direct challenge: can you fulfill the conditions of the mind control while still thwarting the intent.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The thing about mind control is it's very easy to undermine. For someone like me, being mind controlled is pretty much a direct challenge: can you fulfill the conditions of the mind control while still thwarting the intent.
Which is why I looooooved Universo in Melkhor's legion game.

I could tell any player that I was controling what to do and they had to do it under threat of modkill.

I got to specify "No hinting" if I so choose or "vote for so and so" or I coulda been a jerk and given them all post restrictions.

Then, if they didn't do what I wanted, it was my fault for not outsmarting the players, not the mod's.

[majinmagog]

In Naruto I had to tell everyone I was the serial killer after I killed someone. If I didn't I would be modkilled. I posted since either way I was going to die.

[michiganj24]

Well vote stealers I dont think should even have a you must vote this way just give it to the vote stealer and they became a double voter that can do what he wants with both votes

[Jackofhearts2005]

Well vote stealers I dont think should even have a you must vote this way just give it to the vote stealer and they became a double voter that can do what he wants with both votes
Like in Carlos' horror where the vote just appeared somewhere else?

Or would you rather have the vote stealer just have a double vote and the other guy not have a vote?

[Rokk_Krinn]

Like in Carlos' horror where the vote just appeared somewhere else?

Or would you rather have the vote stealer just have a double vote and the other guy not have a vote?

I kind-of like the way Carlos did it. Lent an air of mystery, especially since the "switch" was done during the Day Phase if I understand properly.

The original Ringmaster power I had didn't work so great. It allowed me to "vote steal" - which in a three-person Mafia was already of iffy usage - but the person didn't post their stolen vote and it didn't go where, say, I voted the next day. I had to choose during the Night phase where the person's vote would appear - not voted on by them, just auto-vote into place - the next Day Phase. I wouldn't suggest that method but, hey, it was our first game and even the mod was learning.

[JackAssterson]

The original Ringmaster power I had didn't work so great

Ah, the good ol' days.

[CarlosMucha]

My advice is" always try new things.

It may be riski but is fun! (of course first you have to find in all the posible things that can happen, even if you can't prevent all).

Trying new things made you have New Kind of Roles.

I have to say that I love the "Hulk Vigilante" Role that I made. the one were you will be inmunte to night kil if YOU Kill somebody that night.

There is several ways to do a mind control power. It depends of how much control do you want the player to have.

[michiganj24]

Oh yes. When i first got that role i went well thats lame. Then the more I did with it the more fun I had with it. And this way you control the vote and you dont have to depend on them voting and if you want to switch later in the day you arent outed by the saying hmm we have a double vote when these guys did it and when he voted over here. Must be %^%$ who has that power. And i got to be silly with by having people actually vote for themselves. I rember someone getting quite indiganat over it
Like in Carlos' horror where the vote just appeared somewhere else?

Or would you rather have the vote stealer just have a double vote and the other guy not have a vote?

[CarlosMucha]

Oh yes. When i first got that role i went well thats lame. Then the more I did with it the more fun I had with it. And this way you control the vote and you dont have to depend on them voting and if you want to switch later in the day you arent outed by the saying hmm we have a double vote when these guys did it and when he voted over here. Must be %^%$ who has that power. And i got to be silly with by having people actually vote for themselves. I rember someone getting quite indiganat over it


:laugh:

You see? you see? told you it will be fun!

[tidge]

IMO, "Mind Control" needs to have a "carrot" as well as a "stick".

The threat of a modkill is an obvious stick, but a well-played mind-controlled player sometimes deserves a new, alternate win condition.

And from a personal perspective, I tend to dislike games that have my win condition radically change near the end. (And yes, I won a game as a SK after such a change...but up until that point of the game where I became a SK I actually had no power whatsoever anyway except to win with the rest of the town, so it wasn't like I was doing much BEFORE the role change)

I've been on both ends of the "recruiter" and "recruited", and quite frankly while "recruitment" is an easier issue to deal with (because the win condition does change) but I've seen (and played) recruits that just didn't have the heart to really play the game.

[CarlosMucha]

Miley have a new song!!!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mKbN5usCQgM

Sorry. but I have to take that out of my system.

:knockedou

[The BoyBlunder]

IMO, "Mind Control" needs to have a "carrot" as well as a "stick".

The threat of a modkill is an obvious stick, but a well-played mind-controlled player sometimes deserves a new, alternate win condition.

And from a personal perspective, I tend to dislike games that have my win condition radically change near the end. (And yes, I won a game as a SK after such a change...but up until that point of the game where I became a SK I actually had no power whatsoever anyway except to win with the rest of the town, so it wasn't like I was doing much BEFORE the role change)

I've been on both ends of the "recruiter" and "recruited", and quite frankly while "recruitment" is an easier issue to deal with (because the win condition does change) but I've seen (and played) recruits that just didn't have the heart to really play the game.
To be fair, you DID have a power. You were a bomb. You killed the person who killed you. It's your on fault that you didn't do anything. When you were finally killed, you killed your killer, and then got a brand new role. I fail to see what the problem is.

[tidge]

To be fair, you DID have a power. You were a bomb. You killed the person who killed you. It's your on fault that you didn't do anything. When you were finally killed, you killed your killer, and then got a brand new role. I fail to see what the problem is.

I have no problem with that game...because before my role change/altered win condition I had no active power (except a vote) to actually get any information except what was on the thread. My role explicitly said "don't get killed or it will be bad for the town", so my game strategy was to basically not draw attention to myself...as it turned out, my becoming a SK was actually just as bad for the mafia.

But in other games:

Carlos' HORROR! I got recruited after I'd pretty much exposed the mafia into which I was recruited (even if no other players believed me)...and then the don got day-killed and the replacement don was mind-controlled.

In the BYOC Marvel, I got recruited via a resurrection (after I was daykilled by the town!) again, late-game and my heart just wasn't in that game after that point.

In BYOC DC, I was a mafia recruiter...and on the first night we ended up recruiting one of the town masons on Night 1, and his heart was broken (so much that the rest of our mafia had to basically blackmail him into playing the rest of the game!)...but with such a stroke of luck, we should have been able to dominate the game...as it was we ended up with a win but we had to eliminate the mason group to do so.

My point is only this: I personally find it hard (and I've seen other players also find it hard) to adjust to a game when their win condition radically changes...and in the case of blackmail/mind control the players often don't even get a reward for being the victim of mind control. I suppose being mind-controlled is better than being killed, but I think a clever mod that really wants a mind-controller can figure out a "reward" of some type for the mind-controlled figure....instead of just offering a modkill....since most players can arrange to be modkilled anyway.

[Jackofhearts2005]

One other successful switching of teams imo was Melkhor's Horsemen of Apocalypse mafia in Mutant Masscre.

Players were asked if they wanted to join. Nobody refused but if they really wanted to, they didn't have to join the mafia. Of course, Apocalypse would have then killed them but it was still a great way of ensuring that there was no half hearted playing.

[The BoyBlunder]

Tidge, in What Else, you wern't recruited. Thats why I don't see why you brought it up. You had an active power. You were a bomb. The role of Slashy666 was actually created as a way for Rokk to be involved in the game if he came back in time. Your death would have caused a bomb, as well as a trigger for his enterance. As it was, he didn't come back, and so you took the role, which worked out fine. But being a bomb and trigger is very differant than being recruited.

I know. In St-Dumas' DC BYOC, I choose to be Zombie Batman. I had a really cool power, and was teamed with Nightwing, Robin, and Alfred, none of whom knew I was a zombie. And I was recruited by Despero night one, and was stripped of my powers. Not only that, but I was copped night one and found to be Indy because I had jusst been recruited.

And what did I do? I outed the person who recruited me, and got myself modkilled. It was my worst moment in mafia. But it really did break me when I had been so looking forward to the game and then everything got stolen from me. So I know how much it sucks, but I fail to see why you braught up What Else.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think he was just mentioning it because it was a change in win condition, which sometimes happens when you are recruited.

I think people are generally happier when they don't lose all their powers upon being recruited.

[tidge]

I think he was just mentioning it because it was a change in win condition, which sometimes happens when you are recruited.

Exactly. I mention it because it was one of the few times I've had my victory condition changed (or changed someone elses) that *I* thought was successful.

I am not complaining about that game: I won as a SK!

It's not a negative, and it is only tangential to my argument (which is basically that a "mind controlled" player ought to get an alternative win condition (at the extreme) or a "carrot" (immunity to night kill/lynch) to make them "play better".

"Mind Control" should be different than "Recruitment", but there ought to be a REASON for the mind controller to play along, rather than just risk a modkill. In fact, if there is a "mind controller" in the game, I think there probably ought to be at least one other role that can balance the mind-control (or the writeup has to balance it...as it did in the Silver Age Legion Game)

[goodman]

We understand Tidge, never fear ;)