View Full Version : Ultimate GAP R4: Team Robin (Tim) vs. Team Lockheed
Welcome to the Grab a Partner (or Gap) TOC. In this division we have 64 fighters from each weight class waiting to go. In the first round they will be randomly paired up into team of 4. The teams will face off and half of them will be eliminated. The remaining fighters will be re-paired up in the following round until only one team remaining.
During the fight, the fighters get no extra knowledge about their opponents besides what they already know, but they do know the names of who they are fighting. All characters get whatever equipment is standard for them. Teams receive prep time of 15 minutes to plan.
Apocalypse, Cheetah (Barbara), Cyborg & Robin (Tim)
vs.
D'Bra, Cable, Scarlet Spider & Lockheed
Terrain:
Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
The largest terrain in this TOC, the entire grounds of the Hogwarts School are available for use. This includes the castle with its many passageways, towers and dungeons, open spaces such as Quiddich field, the Forbidden Forrest which is thick and dangerous, as well as the lake. All creatures (both human and animal) have been carefully removed, but some may have gone overlooked (such as the Whomping Willow). The technology ban has been lifted, courtesy of the school’s headmaster.
Round 1
Big Barda/Dr. Doom/Black Canary/Daredevil vs. Hulk/Rogue/Yellowjacket/American Dream: (5-4)
Invincible/Hydroman/Hobgoblin/Nightwing vs. Black Bolt/Krypto/Spider-Girl/Robin: (6-1)
Hercules/Xane/Constantine Drakon/Joker vs. Green Lantern (Alan)/Speed Demon/Captain Cold/Boomerang: (6-0)
Nova (Richard)/Dracula/Batman Beyond/Deadshot vs. Ghost Rider (Johnny)/Thena/Owen Mercer/Scandal Savage: (5-3)
Green Lantern (Hal)/Mimic (Exiles)/Kraven the Hunter/Union Jack (James) vs. Mirror Master/Metallo/Blade/Catwoman: (4-2)
Power Girl/Victor Mancha/Venom/Merlyn vs. Thor/Gorgon (Inhumans)/Darkdevil/Lockheed: (8-0)
Nero/Cable/Wiccan/Hellcat vs. Evinlea/Iceman/Manhunter (Kate)/Tarzan: (4-1)
Stryyp Gia/Rasputin/Ultimate Captain America/Scorpion (SHIELD) vs. Sinestro/Blob/Psylocke (Telekinesis)/Ultimate Nick Fury: (3-1)
Firelord/Paibok/Daishi/Cheshire vs. Boy Blue/William Leather/Kid Devil/Nick Fury: (5-1)
Quasar/Ghost Rider (Daniel)/Batgirl (Cassandra)/Bullseye vs. Captain Britain/Booster Gold/Hawkman/Swordsman (Andreas): (6-0)
Wonder Woman/Namor/Judas Traveller/Question (Renee) vs. Silver Surfer/Radioactive Man/Terra/Mysterio: (4-3)
Dr. Doom (Unthinkable)/Abra Kadabra/The Shadow/Batroc vs. Nimrod/The Captain/Nico Minoru/Mr. Terrific: (6-0)
Omni-Man/Giganta/Spider-Man (pre “The Other”)/Green Arrow (Oliver) vs. Ultimate Thor/Karate Kid/Gambit/Silver Sable: (6-0)
The General/Klaw/Brittany “Cheetah” Diggers/Tarantula II vs. Morg/Vera Black/Mercury/Hawkeye (Clint): (4-2)
Miss Martian/Jay Garrick/Conan/Bucky vs. Super Skrull/Robotman/Cyclops/Longshot: (10-0)
Druig/Invisible Woman/Molly Hayes/Detective Chimp vs. Apollo/Trauma/Carnage/Raptor: (4-2)
Terrax/Red Tornado/Hulkling/Question (Victor) vs. Isis/Magnus, Robot Fighter/Captain America/Matter-Eater Lad: (3-2)
Lex Luthor (Power Suit)/Morph/Fixer/Dick Tracy vs. Big Barda (Another Nail)/Geo-Force/Cyborg/Ayane (Mistress): (7-0)
Supergirl (Kara)/Kang/Thin Man/Hawkeye (Kate) vs. Miracle/Captain Mar-Vell/Batman/Spoiler: (4-2)
Apocalypse/Superboy/Jericho/Arrowette vs. Sephie/Blazing Skull/X-23/Red Skull: (6-0)
Superman/Atom Smasher/Sabertooth/Echo vs. Magneto/Gorilla Grodd/Joystick/Flattop: (7-2)
Black Adam/Praxagora/Doctor Octopus/Rorschach vs. Professor Zoom/AoA Iceman/Mr. Fantastic/Harley Quinn: (9-0)
Allen the Alien/Steel (John)/Mr. Miracle (Scott)/Speedy (Mia) vs. Absorbing Man/Sand/Princess Projecta/Colleen Wing: (7-1)
Theodore Diggers/Atomic Robo/Winter Soldier/Blue Beetle (Ted) vs. D’Bra/Morlun/Azrael/Green Arrow (Connor): (5-4)
Champion/Drax/Iron Fist/Union Jack (Joey) vs. Flash (Wally)/Namora/Scarlet Spider/Amadeus Cho: (3-2)
Bizarro/Emma Frost/Spike/Punisher vs. Captain Marvel (Billy)/Desaad/Beast Boy/Mystique: (4-0)
Makkari/Kid Flash/Sheila/Tommy Jagger vs. Mr. Sinister/Atlas/Deathstroke/Lady Shiva: (4-3)
Green Lantern (Kyle)/Cheetah (Barbara)/Dove (Dawn)/Black Widow (Natasha) vs. Kalibak/Blue Beetle (Jamie)/Shadowcat/Ryan Tabbot: (7-0)
Adam Warlock/Spawn/Midnighter/Huntress vs. Iron Man/Starfire/Human Torch (Jim)/Wildcat: (3-2)
Obsidian/Hiroim the Shamed/Aaron Stack/Lex Luthor vs. Lobo/Wonder Girl (Donna)/Judomaster/Black Knight: (6-0)
J2/Xavin/Human Torch (Johnny)/Baron Zemo vs. Zoom/Songbird/Deadpool/Penguin: (5-2)
Martian Manhunter/The Top/Stinger/Crossbones vs. Ronan the Accuser/Spider-Man (post The Other)/Bane/Gertrude Yorkes & Old Lace: (4-0)
Round 2
Black Adam/Hiroim the Shamed/The Shadow/Daredevil vs. Bizarro/Kid Flash/Azrael/Boomerang: (9-0)
Black Bolt/Robotman/Scarlet Spider/Amadeus Cho vs. Iron Man/Krypto/Stinger/Punisher: (5-2)
Thor/Starfire/Terra/Rorschach vs. Miracle/Songbird/Spider-Girl/Green Arrow (Connor): (6-2)
Big Barda/Red Tornado/Molly Hayes/Mysterio vs. Allen the Alien/Cheetah (Barabara)/Ultimate Captain America/Lockheed: (5-0)
Big Barda (Another Nail)/Giganta/Batman Beyond/Question (Victor) vs. Obsidian/Steel (John)/Spike/Spoiler: (5-0)
Green Lantern (Kyle)/Namora/Wiccan/Green Arrow (Oliver) vs. Green Lantern (Alan)/Dr. Doom/Sabretooth/Union Jack (James): (6-1)
Omni-Man/Praxagoria/Jericho/Crossbones vs. Makkari/Radioactive Man/Kraven the Hunter/Speedy (Mia): (7-0)
Superman/Mimic/Cyborg/Ayane vs. Super Skrull/Captain Mar-vell/Batgirl/Penguin: (8-0)
Flash (Wally)/Rasputin/Spider-Man (Pre-Other)/Scorpion (SHIELD) vs. D’Bra/Geo-Fotce/Mister Miracle (Scott)/Tommy Jagger: (4-3)
Terrax/Abra Kadabra/Human Torch (Jim)/Cheshire vs. Green Lantern (Hal)/Vera Black/Batman/Bullseye: (4-3)
Stryyp Gia/Emma Frost/Hulkling/Echo vs. Dr. Doom (Unthinkable)/Dracula/Dove/Lex Luthor: (6-3)
Druig/Morlun/Black Canary/Hawkeye (Clint) vs. Silver Surfer (pre-Annihilation)/Cable/Mercury/Detective Chimp: (7-0)
Zoom/The Top/Aaron Stack/Batroc vs. Nova (Richard)/Speed Demon/Darkdevil/Black Widow (Natasha): (5-4)
Morg/Paibok/Doctor Octopus/Arrowette vs. Apocalypse/Superboy/Captain Cold/Longshot: (3-1)
Quasar/Ghost Rider (Daniel)/Cyclops/Robin (Tim) vs. Martian Manhunter/Atom Smasher/Daishi/Hellcat: (3-0)
Nero/Invisible Woman/Deadpool/Wildcat vs. Firelord/Gorgon/Sheila/Deadshot: (5-0)
Round 3
Zoom/Invisible Woman/Cyclops/Bullseye vs. Miracle/Mimic/Cyborg/Green Arrow (Oliver): (3-0)
Dr. Doom (Unthinkable)/Namora/Ultimate Captain America/Daredevil vs. Apocalypse/Cheetah (Barbara)/Aaron Stack/Crossbones: (6-5)
Green Lantern (Hal)/The Top/Batman/Detective Chimp vs. Black Bolt/Cable/Scarlet Spider/Longshot: (5-4)
Silver Surfer (Pre-Annihilation)/Ghost Rider (Danial)/Wiccan/Amadeus Cho vs. Allen the Alien/Songbird/Spider-Girl/Ayane: (5-4)
Quasar/Praxagora/Deadpool/Lex Luthor vs. Superman/Geo-Force/Batman Beyond/Wildcat: (5-2)
Black Adam/Superboy/Mister Miracle (Scott)/Question (Victor) vs. Big Barda (Another Nail)/Vera Black/Mercury/Lockheed: (3-0)
Nero/Giganta/Jericho/Batroc vs. D’Bra/Robotman/Dove/Robin (Tim): (3-0)
Omni-Man/Dracula/The Shadow/Green Arrow (Connor) vs. Green Lantern (Kyle)/Hiroim the Shamed/Captain Cold/Tommy Jagger: (3-1)
Round 4:
Black Bolt/Dracula/The Shadow/Longshot vs. Miracle/Robotman/Aaron Stack/Green Arrow (Connor): (4-0)
Big Barda (Another Nail)/Mimic/Batman Beyond/Crossbones vs. Superman/Vera Black/Dove/Wildcat: (4-2)
Silver Surfer (pre Annihilation)/Geo-Force/Wiccan/Green Arrow (Oliver) vs. Omni-Man/Ghost Rider (Daniel)/Mercury/Amadeus Cho: (5-1)
Apocalypse/Cheetah (Barbara)/Cyborg/Robin (Tim) vs. D’Bra/Cable/Scarlet Spider/Lockheed: ?????
Now this is an interesting matchup. Hogwarts isn't bad for a Dragon (or if you count Lockheed, two dragons!), although Debra'll probably stick to the exterior where she can stay huge and use her speed and range, and *no-one* knows more about Apocalypse than Cable so D'bra will have all the best information on what she's up against.
Cable's not bad against Barbara- not all of his attacks have to worry about Cheetah's high speed, and his forcefield should stand up for awhile against her claws. Barbara's still quite dangerous due simply to skill and strength. Interestingly, while Apoc and Cable have fought a lot, not with this power set, so advice he gives on Cable will be somewhat off.
Cyborg and Scarlet Spider... Ben's harder to hit, Vic has more firepower. I wonder if Cable's techno-telepathy might be able to play havok on Vic. If they could take him over or shut him down without a fight that'd be a major edge.
Lockheed and Robin are the two weakest LWs still around. Lockheed might be able to make use of the terrain better, fitting in with the motifs, but I don't see either mattering too much.
spiderman9797
10/05/2008, 11:34
Then again, the castle Hogwarts is a great place for Barbara. Plus, I think Apocalypse can beat D'bra. He can grow if he must, but he has a huge variety of powers to be able to fight D'bra with.
Also, Tim was paired with D'Bra last round, so her advantage of being unknown is gone.
Then again, the castle Hogwarts is a great place for Barbara. Plus, I think Apocalypse can beat D'bra. He can grow if he must, but he has a huge variety of powers to be able to fight D'bra with.
Not that Debra's lacking in versatility either, and magic is probably better to fight him with than other means.
Plus there's the Cable factor. He tends to do disproportionately well against Apocalypse. What happens if the SHWs and the HWs mix things up? Since we do have arch-nemesi on opposite teams it seems quite likely.
Also, Tim was paired with D'Bra last round, so her advantage of being unknown is gone.
True, Tim's always good for an info dump.
The BoyBlunder
10/05/2008, 12:09
Also, I can see Cyborg and Robin teaming up, and swapping partners. Robin would probably have an easyer time vs Scarlet Spider than against Lockheed. Robin has been trained against those who are vastly more powerful than himself, and is also just a more skilled fighter. It wouldn't be an easy fight, but I can see him taking him on long enough for Cyborg to take down Lockheed with some sonics or somesuch, and rejoining Robin to take down Ben.
I vote Team Double Dragon.
I think D'bra's team has the advantage in most of these matchups. According to my man on the inside Cheetah is not at all as beast as she's been made out to be, which pretty much matches my experience with her. Aside from that Cable has a a pretty solid powerset to fight her with, he can restrict her movements with t.k. in this terrain and make her stay at range. I like Scarlet Spider over Cyborg, I think Ben's got the better boosts, Cyborg brings strong shooting to the field, but without any way to keep Ben at range I don't feel that that will be enough. Tim should handle Lockheed, but that's as far as he'll get, he's no match for Cable or Scarlet Spider and he is still going to have to take his time in order to avoid getting burnanated. I also take D'bra over Apocalypse, both of them have a laundry list of vaguley SHW powers but when you come right down to it Apocalypse tends to lose and I get the impression that D'bra tends to win, magic is also typically more powerful than mutations or super-science. Finally D'bra's team should have a pretty solid terrain and teamwork advantage, as a true sorcerer D'bra will be able to take advantage of the variety of magical things in this terrain and her team is also all likeminded heros (and a dragon, which works out for her too), while Apoc has a hero/villain split, and he sure isn't winning any team work awards himself.
Oh, and also, if there's a man that is going to have the inside dirt on how to put Apocalypse in the floor then Cable is that man.
Oh, and also, if there's a man that is going to have the inside dirt on how to put Apocalypse in the floor then Cable is that man.
Still undecided on this match overall, but I agree wholeheartedly with this above.
Jackofhearts2005
10/05/2008, 15:28
Oh, and also, if there's a man that is going to have the inside dirt on how to put Apocalypse in the floor then Cable is that man.
That being said, how many times has Cable beaten Apocalypse? Even with entire x-teams at his back including SHWs? ;)
I don't see Ben beating Vic. Vic's stronger and tougher and even if Ben webs his arms and legs to the wall, he's got several attacks that he can do without them on top of being strong enough to break the wall to free himself. It won't be a short fight but I fully support Cyborg to win it.
I don't see Lockheed beating Robin even if Robin didn't have a fireproof cape. I mean really. Whats he gonna do? Bite him? One or two hits from Tim should take Lockheed down.
Plus those two will probably team up to beat the lower divisions and I put more faith in Cyborg and Robin to actually do something to D'bra than I do in Lockheed and the Scarlet Spider to do anything to Apocalypse.
That all being said, I'm not sure who takes the higher divisions so I'm not voting quite yet.
I have no idea, but the X-teams have beaten Apocalypse several times, and I'd assume Cable's been in on some of them :) One problem Cable's had is his definition of 'win' against Apoc isn't just winning the day, but killing him, which is far more difficult.
Robin has been trained against those who are vastly more powerful than himself, and is also just a more skilled fighter.
I don't think Robin'd last long at all. While it's true that top-top martial artists sometimes hold off a Spider, Ben's no slower than Peter and has all of his agility, spider-sense, and better webbing. Tim's good but holding off a spider is tough for Daredevil and Shang Chi, let alone Robin, I think Scarlet Spider'd just overwhelm Tim and web him up fast.
Anyway, I'm going to vote team Lockheed. It's a good terrain for them and Cable is a fortuitous draw against Apoc. If they switched up HWs/SHW, I think Nathan would last longer, and if they didn't, forcefields are good for keeping Cheetah from applying those really nasty magic claws.
Jackofhearts2005
10/05/2008, 16:20
I've just seen Cable vs Apocalypse one on one (granted, not with this power set) and it wasn't even close. And then Cable attacks Apocalypse with half the X-Men including Jean and Xavier and Apocalypse still smashes the entire group. Sure, Cable's got the inside information but he's not exactly batting 1000 for using that information either ya know?
I don't think Tim has a very good chance against Ben alone either. I think considering how fast Tim could beat Lockheed and that he and Vic will stay together (and Lockheed and Ben might not), he can probably help Cyborg out against Ben. But beat him one on one? Nah.
According to my man on the inside Cheetah is not at all as beast as she's been made out to be, which pretty much matches my experience with her.
I'd say she's a beast, but she's a beast in HtH, not kept one foot away from her foe by forcefields.
Vic's stronger and tougher and even if Ben webs his arms and legs to the wall, he's got several attacks that he can do without them on top of being strong enough to break the wall to free himself. It won't be a short fight but I fully support Cyborg to win it.
What about hand to hand though? Scarlet Spider is strong enough to hurt Cyborg and once he's in close, he's very very hard to hit.
I'd also like to bring up again the possibility of Cable just shutting him down/taking him over. In this version, Cable uses a massive 'infosphere' uplink to replicate telepathy based on a device that can filter the entire world's net at once, which unlike normal telepathy works better against machines than against people, and Vic's been hacked before.
And then Cable attacks Apocalypse with half the X-Men including Jean and Xavier and Apocalypse still smashes the entire group. Sure, Cable's got the inside information but he's not exactly batting 1000 for using that information either ya know?
Isn't Apoc pretty much immune to telepathy anyway? A lot of the X-men heavy hitters aren't as great against him.
Cable does have an ancient dragon girl on his side this time, and D'bra's pretty good at using info on foes.
I've just seen Cable vs Apocalypse one on one (granted, not with this power set) and it wasn't even close. And then Cable attacks Apocalypse with half the X-Men including Jean and Xavier and Apocalypse still smashes the entire group. Sure, Cable's got the inside information but he's not exactly batting 1000 for using that information either ya know?
.
Well I've seen Apoc win like one or 2 fights, ever, mostly against small groups of X-men. I seem to recall Cable soloing Apoc sometime around Onslaught, but maybe that was that otherguy that was floating around around then that looked a lot like Apoc. I've found mileage varies with En Sabah Nur.
Magoogles
10/05/2008, 17:25
See this brings up a problem I have always had with these kinds of tournaments. The bad guy always loses in the end, at least in comics. Especially the really powerful guys. It also has to be this way or the world would end in almost every story arc.
So yeah Apocalypse has lost to some rag tag teams of X-men but Ultron also got punked by the Runaways. Doom never ends up completing his master plan and so on. The Hero's have to win in comics its just the way it is.
On a second note I am going to vote for Team Apocalypse.
That's because bad guys have psyche's that are conducive to failure while heroes have psyche's that are conducive to success.
The "'I only have to win once to rule everything, so it's not too bad if I lose this time' being in the back of their heads" factor?
Not that that's the primary reason I support team double dragon. Cable's good against everyone on the opposing team- knowledge against Apoc, forcefields against Cheetah, infosphere hacking against Cyborg.
Also a lot of the time he's fought Apocalypse as part of a big team, that's when he's been psychic but had most of his power focused on fighting off the techno-organic virus, mostly leaving him with guns. Nathanial is more powerful with these powers than he was with his old psychics (before he solved the techo-organic problem and went strait H-SHW for awhile) by a good measure.
So his past fights with lesser abilities don't apply as much, and Apocalypse's knowledge of this form of his arch nemesis is lacking, since I don't think they meet once while Cable had this power set (some 50-some issues, Apoc was dead for most of it, and the only Apoc stories were in the past or future). He'll tell Cheetah that Nate is a telepath with TK and guns, or he'll go after Nate himself, and either way there's a surprise and Cable'll have more than expected.
Jackofhearts2005
10/05/2008, 19:02
Vic's been hacked before.
Vic had the unfortunate luck of already having tech installed in him that could remotely control him from his first appearance (though we didn't know about it at the time).
I don't remember him ever being "hacked" since said tech was removed. Could be wrong though.
Thinker got into him in Flash via a physical link around when he switched from gold to his current form, and shut him down. It's not any more robust against hacking if you can actually access it, it's just harder to access now.
Which is not a problem for Cable's abilities.
Jackofhearts2005
10/05/2008, 19:55
Wasn't the Thinker also taking over regular people during that issue as well?
Hardly an internal security issue if you ask me.
Wasn't the Thinker also taking over regular people during that issue as well?
Hardly an internal security issue if you ask me.
True :) Of course Cable has KOed fleshies with his abilities too...
Jackofhearts2005
10/05/2008, 21:53
Oh certainly. I think Cable would beat Cyborg 9 times out of 10, maybe more.
I'm just saying that him getting taken over by Thinker has very little to do with Cable's ability to mess with his systems. ;)
That's because bad guys have psyche's that are conducive to failure while heroes have psyche's that are conducive to success.
Eh, maybe, though my opinion on that is a bit more practical, in that if the villains won, the heroes usually die, and hence no more comic.
This was the main reason on my solo battle threads I never put hero vs. villain, as heroes usually win in the end, plain and simple, no matter how powerful, intelligent, skilled, etc. the villain is.
Ill agree that usually heroes have a Do What Needs To Be Done attitude, while many villains are just bullies with loads of power, but if Im asked why the X-Men always beat Magneto in the end, or Superman triumphs over Doomsday, its because if they dont, the comic ends, and that just aint gonna happen. :)
Im going with Team Robin here. The only match up I see Team Lockheed winning is MAYBE the MWs, to me Robin takes Lockheed, Cheetah takes down Cable, and Apoc beats Dbra (all close fights, but to me the win ratio is definately on Team Robins favor in the end). Vic MIGHT get the better win ratio over Ben, but thatll be a Hard fight for him, and I dont see him making a huge difference in the end to matter.
Eh, maybe, though my opinion on that is a bit more practical, in that if the villains won, the heroes usually die, and hence no more comic.
This was the main reason on my solo battle threads I never put hero vs. villain, as heroes usually win in the end, plain and simple, no matter how powerful, intelligent, skilled, etc. the villain is.
Ill agree that usually heroes have a Do What Needs To Be Done attitude, while many villains are just bullies with loads of power, but if Im asked why the X-Men always beat Magneto in the end, or Superman triumphs over Doomsday, its because if they dont, the comic ends, and that just aint gonna happen. :)
This is why I root for the villains. Gotta love an underdog.
Im going with Team Robin here. The only match up I see Team Lockheed winning is MAYBE the MWs, to me Robin takes Lockheed, Cheetah takes down Cable, and Apoc beats Dbra (all close fights, but to me the win ratio is definately on Team Robins favor in the end). Vic MIGHT get the better win ratio over Ben, but thatll be a Hard fight for him, and I dont see him making a huge difference in the end to matter.
No magic advantage over Apoc this time around huh.
Dooms magic, as you yourself pointed out, had been shown to completely shut down tech on a massive scale (which most of Apocs body is composed of), Dbras to my knowledge has no such ability. I also think Apoc being surprised at Doom using super magic over his usual scientific weaponry was a very nice advantage for Victor last time as well, thanks to Robin Dbra will have no such surprise bonus against Apoc here (and even with those bonuses, I still dont think Apoc would beat Dbra by that much really).
Robin saw her in one fight where he had his own foe would've been a handful, it's not like he'd know her entire spell arsenal or strengths and weaknesses or anything. He knows she's a dragon with strong magic and a few of her physical abilities but that's about it, Debra still gets far far more info from Cable.
Both the terrain and teamwork are solidly on team Lockheed's side too.
Robins a highly trained detective, whos very profecient in noticing things that most others miss. Besides, Im sure during their prep time they would have discussed what they can do, how they fight, what skills and abilities they have, in order to make for a better prepared battle plan (its during this time I feel Tim would be familiar enough with Dbra, not so much during the battle itself).
I'm gonna toss a vote for Team Apoc...but I am willing to be swayed.
I'm concerned about how good Cable is basically against the entire other team. He definitely is the MVP of this fight, and if they win, it is because of him.
I'm just not sure what Cable could do to Apoc offensively. I mean, if they came down to it, it would last awhile, Cable knows the game well, but I don't see him really doing much real damage.
My worry over that stems from the fact I could see Cable trying to tie up Apoc to let Dbra fight the lower weight classes- which I would say gives the fight to Dbra's team. Problem is, yes, Cable can hold out against Apoc if Apoc is trying to fight him...but can Cable do anything if Apoc simply takes the smarter route and attempts to fight Dbra? A large Apoc, gunning for the dragon seems hard for Cable to really damage. If someone can convince me that Cable has a good way to force the HW-SHW switch, I'll switch votes.
Personally I think Cheetah has what it takes to make Cable focus on her and her alone. Shes duked it out with Wonder Woman several times, and to me can make Cable focus all of his skills on her, or get ripped to pieces in a claw striking blitz.
Jackofhearts2005
10/06/2008, 14:05
I think if there's a HW-SHW switch, team Apoc gains the advantage.
Cheetah can do some damage to D'bra. Not a huge amount of damage but there will be some bleeding involved (I assume D'bra can bleed).
I don't see Cable's shields lasting very long against Apoc and I don't think he's got the offense to do too much damage to him without some back up/deus ex event.
Gonna go ahead and vote for team Apocalypse. But I can be convinced to change that.
Cheetah can do some damage to D'bra. Not a huge amount of damage but there will be some bleeding involved (I assume D'bra can bleed).
Yep, dragons bleed.
I don't think she can last very long against D'bra's Offense (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Q99/Dbrabeamsml.jpg), though.
She also has nasty one-way forcefield (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Q99/Debraphantomscreen.jpg) traps like I mentioned in the Flash match.
I don't see Cable's shields lasting very long against Apoc and I don't think he's got the offense to do too much damage to him without some back up/deus ex event.
The tech involved is very advanced and seemed to take quite a pounding to overcome from what I've seen. He might not do all that much damage but he can hold out for quite awhile. Longer than I think Cheetah can against D'bra.
Cheetah can do some damage to D'bra. Not a huge amount of damage but there will be some bleeding involved (I assume D'bra can bleed).
How? If the fight takes place inside D'bra will sense Cheetah coming due to Barbara's magical origin and setup spells that will prevent Cheetah from entering melee and if the fight takes place outside D'bra can just fly and breath fire.
It's also not too hard for Cable to lose Cheetah, he teleports, she doesn't, he can block passages with forcefields, all she can do is run around. That's all assumeing D'bra can't use her magic to take control of Hogwart's itself and cause it to setup the match exactly as she wants it.
How? If the fight takes place inside D'bra will sense Cheetah coming due to Barbara's magical origin and setup spells that will prevent Cheetah from entering melee and if the fight takes place outside D'bra can just fly and breath fire.
Magic lasers (http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b219/Q99/Dbrabeamsml.jpg) :) In leu of breath weapons that other dragon clans have, platinums only have their spell rays which are... well, pretty much better in every way. They can be fired in bunches to cover an area or be combined as above and have very long range.
But yea, outside, D'bra wins on high altittude blasting alone.
That's all assumeing D'bra can't use her magic to take control of Hogwart's itself and cause it to setup the match exactly as she wants it.
Someone more familiar with Hogwarts would have to tell you if that's possible. I don't know if they leave their controls open.
Magoogles
10/06/2008, 19:08
I would really have to say no, no-one in the tourney has the power to take control of Hogwarts.
I would really have to say no, no-one in the tourney has the power to take control of Hogwarts.
I'd think it'd be more of a matter of how the control works than power, not like comic SHW mages aren't noticably above even Dumbledore in spellcasting might.
Ok, I'll stick with my vote for team Apoc, although again, I do feel that a class swap would GREATLY favor team Dbra here. Issue being I don't see Cable being able to force it, because while Cable has great knowledge on Apoc, Apoc ASSUMES he has great knowledge on Cable, and while it is outdated, one thing still remains true, and that is that Cable can't really hurt him. Not only is it strategically superior to go for Dbra, but following his Survival of the Fittest motif, it makes sense that he would want to prove himself the stronger between himself and the "second ( in his eyes )" strongest person in the match. If Apoc guns for Dbra, he wins the match, and I feel he will.
Not only is it strategically superior to go for Dbra, but following his Survival of the Fittest motif, it makes sense that he would want to prove himself the stronger between himself and the "second ( in his eyes )" strongest person in the match. If Apoc guns for Dbra, he wins the match, and I feel he will.
I feel that if team D'bra wants to perform the swap, they can. Cable and Debra can both teleport, and D'bra can fly at mach 10, so they have manueverability on Apocalypse even if he teleports.
There's also a couple tricks that D'bra could do as a magic user at the start give Cable an edge, like casting presense mask on him, which hides him from all senses. It'd last until he attacks or physically interacts with someone.
Jawapimp
10/06/2008, 21:25
I'm going to vote team Apoc.
CornsilkSW
10/06/2008, 22:41
Team Lockheed gets my vote.
I think the uberdragon will beat Apocalypse with Cable's help. Cable knows well what Apoc is capable of and what it takes to drop him. Scarlet Spider will be a match for Cyborg and Robin, probably losing but not before doing serious damage.
I think it would be hillarous to see Lockheed following the big dragon around.
At some point during Secret War Lockheed had a crush on another little dragon. She turned into a big dragon when the X-men came back to Earth though and attacked Tokyo, so he had to break it off.
Eh, maybe, though my opinion on that is a bit more practical, in that if the villains won, the heroes usually die, and hence no more comic.
And yet there are plenty of villains who win all the time (or at least come close) and yet the world goes on (Lady Shiva, Black Adam, Mordru, Darkseid, Thanos, just to name a few). Apocalypse is just not one of them.
At some point during Secret War Lockheed had a crush on another little dragon. She turned into a big dragon when the X-men came back to Earth though and attacked Tokyo, so he had to break it off.
*sigh*
I wish that you were kidding
And yet there are plenty of villains who win all the time (or at least come close) and yet the world goes on (Lady Shiva, Black Adam, Mordru, Darkseid, Thanos, just to name a few). Apocalypse is just not one of them.
I wouldnt say Thanos, Darkseid and Mordru are villains who in the end win, as beings of that magnitude are usually out for universal level conquests, and last time I checked Thanos didnt rule Marvel or Mordru the 30th century. :) Oh sure there are some battles than some more powerful villains win, or some lower level HTH fights where the baddie gets the upper hand, though 99% of the time, when a hero and villain face off, the hero (or hero team) emerge victorious in the end. Superman will always have a better win ratio over one of his numerous evil clones, as Hal will against Sinestro, Capt Marvel over Black Adam, even though in all of their cases the only thing seperating each of them is one is good, and the other bad.
D'bra already has a fiance, so Lockheed'd be setting himself up for disappointment :)
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