HCR Rates The Movies #247: WATCHMEN

[DTM]

So, our next film, Classic or Crud, Hit or Miss, what say you ALL?

Our next film open for discussion (the First from our latest Re-makes Section on RtM), and ultimately an Overall RATING by you all:

WATCHMEN
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Let the discussions flow. Likes, dislikes, classic film or overhyped trash, and DONT FORGET to place an Overall Rating when youre done.

Its easy, just give a Rating from 1 (Jaws 4:The Revenge) to 10 (Jaws), and thats it. Course I'd love to have you all give reasons as to why you feel it deserves this Overall Rating, and more than encourage discussions with us all about them.

So, what say you all?

Next Film: ??????

[Prof. Aragorn]

Really tough to say.

I liked it. I liked it a lot. It captured the feel of the comic and added it's own flavor. I think it managed to tell the Watchmen story cinematically rather than as a comic book.

Unfortunately, it didn't leave me with the emotions I get every time I read the book. In addition, I find it more flexible to read the graphic novel than to watch the movie. I can always just flip to a specific page or to a specific line. Even with DVD and VCR, there's pressing the button or scene selection that takes some time.

Granted, comparing the novel and movie is a bit of a wash. As a film, it's excellent. However, it's not like the Dark Knight, which is a near-model of perfection for cinema. I think the problem is due to the source material, there's such a huge demand to keep the plot similar. This heavy plot focus detracts from the film's ability to tell the story.

Also, there's a huge amount of intensity to the violent/nude scenes in the movie. This uncompromising cinematography captures the essence of Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons' work, but at the cost bogging the movie down in action that serves the plot rather than action that serves how the plot advances.

I have a feeling the both director's cut will make the film better. For now . . .

8.3 out of ten.

[Monitor616]

Glad to see you back, DTM. Your presence has been sorely missed around these parts.

As for the movie. I was in awe of the film when I saw it Friday night. The omissions were, of course, missed, though the additions were also very nice(loved the JFK scene with The Comedian). Casting was largely perfect. Ozymandias seemed a bit young and petulant, while everyone else hit their marks perfectly(especially Jackie Earle Haley(Rorschach) and Jeffrey Dean Morgan(The Comedian)). All in all, I was far from disappointed and am looking forward eagerly the director's cut.

As I am looking forward to the director's cut, I rate the movie 9.5/10

[malakim2099]

The violence was very off-putting to me, particularly as it seemed to be emphasized in some cases in favor of character development. Laurie really seemed to be hosed in that regard.

Overall, I'd say 7/10. That might improve depending on the Director's Cut quality.

[St-Dumas]

8.75 out of ten, for reasons I have said elsewhere.

[Wyldstaar]

I went into the theatre hopefull, but with alot of reservations in the back of my mind. When things started, I was a bit put off by how The Comedian wasn't already dead, but I quickly got over it. This is a movie after all, and to pass up the opportunity to have an awesome action sequence in the first scene would be stupid from a cinematic POV. For those who complain about the graphic violence level, I feel compelled to point out that The Comedian landed flat on his face, rather than ending up with his head in his ribcage, as in the graphic novel. It could have been alot more messy.

Overall, I was very impressed. They managed to cram the entire plot into the story without seeming too rushed for my taste. Of course, it was a three hour movie. I was especially worried about the ending, since it had already been stated in several interviews that Zach had changed it. I thought that his choice was inspired. We got the same result, but with a higher believeability level.

9/10

Can't wait for the Super-Ultra-Mega-Director's Cut: Now with Retsyn!

[Amora's_best_friend]

6/10

Didn't really work well in movie form.

[Chief Pokishi]

Good to have ya back DTM. Been awhile. Anyways, I went into this movie with reasonable expectations. I haven't read the graphic novel but do know the basic story/plot. So my critique won't have anything to do with source accuracy and such, just what I've seen in the film.
Now that's out of the way, I really enjoyed this movie. Not as much as Dark Knight but it's up there. While some may complain about the movie length, I appreciated it. In fact, I wish there was more so you can put me on the list of people who would be watching the director cut in July(it's July right?). I was immediately drawn into the story, I felt the pacing of it was really good. As for the characters themselves, loved them. I'm particularly fond of Rorshach and the Comedian. As for the violence/gore/sex that I've been hearing on the boards, none of it phased me although I was surprised by the amount of the blood and guts. Still, I've seen stuff like it before than it affect me. I also understand the premise of an alien invasion was turned into a nuclear threat. I feel it worked so I have no problem there. My only gripe would be the soundtrack. It's not that I hated it but thought the songs seemed to be an odd choice. Although I found it hilarious that the words "HALLELUYAH" was song throughout the Nite Owl/Silk Spectre II sex scene.

9/10. My rating for now. I'll see how the director cut turns out.

[anonym0use]

When it comes to reviewing this film, you're damned if you've read the novel, and damned if you haven't. In both cases it's really a no win situation trying to compare the two.

On it's own two feet, I feel the Watchmen movie fell fall short of the mark of a solid, coherent film. It had super summer blockbuster FX and a big budget, and it certainly looks good, but the gears in this machine just weren't catching all the time.

Most of my complaints come from lousy acting, poor acting direction (or rather poor actors) and a bad screenplay. For every solid performance and strong scene there's one to counter it's effectiveness. Silk Specter's lack of character development combined with a lackluster performance almost zeroes out the crunchy goodness of Rohrschach's screen time.

Perhaps the Watchmen's biggest flaw was that Ozymandias was not portrayed as a hero. They needed a young Paul Neuman type, who was a good looking and charismatic leader but settled for something far less which really made the "big reveal" as well as the entire movie suffer.

Note to the director & actor: Villains never see themselves as villains.

It certainly wasn't a waste of my time or money, but I can imagine some mainstream audiences were left with plenty of "hunh?" moments in this comic-book noir.

"What's with the cat-thing? Is that a Liger?"

For a comic movie I'd give it an 7/10.

For a science fiction movie with no comic ties I'd give it a 5/10

For the purpose of this review I'll split the difference and call it 6/10.

[ChiRocker]

When it comes to reviewing this film, you're damned if you've read the novel, and damned if you haven't.

I first have to give you rep for using a line from the book that didn't make it into the movie to rate the book to movie experience.

I went into the movie excited but with guards up. I was shocked that some of the violence made it on the screen, and would have preferred it just off screen with blood spraying onto the walls on screen and such, but I didn't feel that any of the violence was over the top for accuracy sake. I was disappointing by the scenes that didn't make it in Hollis Mason's demise, Jon explaining specific topographical locations on Mars to Laurie, more development of the news stand crew (we didn't care as much when they died), etc., I know that the movie was already 2:40, but I hope for some of them in the DC.

I didn't mind the blue junk, and I had to go to the bathroom anyway for the "Hallelujah", and the violence really didn't bother me so much as surprise me. I didn't mind Laurie's acting so much as Adrien's. He was way too confident at the end, but I did like that he showed remorse for his actions; made him look more human. But Rorschach and Comedian way more than made up for any other acting flaws imo.

I rate the movie 9/10 and #3 in my favorite Comic Book Movies of All Time list (#1-Dark Knight, #2-Sin City)

[Wyldstaar]

It certainly wasn't a waste of my time or money, but I can imagine some mainstream audiences were left with plenty of "hunh?" moments in this comic-book noir.

"What's with the cat-thing? Is that a Liger?"

There certainly were a few of those, but I'd only halfway count this as one of them. My reasoning on this is that I found myself asking the same question when reading the graphic novel. Yes, they do explain that it's a product of genetic engineering, but that's all. The creature was never shown in any of the flashback sequences of Ozy, so he wasn't a part of his crime fighting days. It was just sort of there, with no real purpose other than to be the "wildcat" that "did growl" as Nite Owl & Rorschach approached "The Watchtower." This seemed to be his sole reason for existence in both the movie and the book.

[ChiRocker]

There certainly were a few of those, but I'd only halfway count this as one of them. My reasoning on this is that I found myself asking the same question when reading the graphic novel. Yes, they do explain that it's a product of genetic engineering, but that's all. The creature was never shown in any of the flashback sequences of Ozy, so he wasn't a part of his crime fighting days. It was just sort of there, with no real purpose other than to be the "wildcat" that "did growl" as Nite Owl & Rorschach approached "The Watchtower." This seemed to be his sole reason for existence in both the movie and the book.

And to add, in the movie I was more prone to say wtf when some lady in the restaurant with Dan and Laurie said "I am so glad I ordered the 4 legged chicken." But that line let the viewer know that some kind of genetic altering was being done to animals and the general populous knew and accepted it as normal, so the "liger" should not have been that weird to the non-reader/watcher with a good ear for background garble.

[AlienFlanders]

After seeing the trailer, where most of my must haves appeared, I figured it wouldn't be too disappointing. Rorschach was spot on.

One minor annoyance from the comic, Laurie smoked, so her pressing the flame button was an honest/drunken mistake, in the movie it seemed a little strange (a superhero would realize button pushing could be dangerous).

I was watching an interview with Kevin Smith just before Watchmen was released and he scoffed at Alan Moore's comment that Watchmen was designed so in couldn't be filmed, Kevin said Come on, it's easy, the comic is the storyboard, its laid out for any decent director to follow.

For me they captured the overall feel of the comic.
Overall it is a nice companion piece to the GN. I give it an 8/10.

[wintremute]

I rate it an 8.

[Wyldstaar]

I was watching an interview with Kevin Smith just before Watchmen was released and he scoffed at Alan Moore's comment that Watchmen was designed so in couldn't be filmed, Kevin said Come on, it's easy, the comic is the storyboard, its laid out for any decent director to follow.

In 2008, it's easy to use the comic as a storyboard. Between modern visual FX technology, and evolved notions of what is or is not acceptable in a movie, it's not a problem. In 1986 however, it was nigh impossible. The very notion of filming a superhero movie with the sorts of themes and situations in Watchmen would be unheard of back then. The only reason WB was willing to do Watchmen now is because the comic book to film genre has ballooned to epic proportions since Blade was released in 1998. Plus, DC must be screaming at the top of their lungs as WB to get their posteriors in gear to make some quality movies based on DC properties. Marvel has been leaving DC in the dust since 1998. They can't be happy about that, and it's WB's fault since they own DC, and won't allow them to sell the rights to their best characters to competing movie studios that might actually do something with them instead of leaving them in development hell for years on end.

[Ignatz_Mouse]

They can use the comic for storyboards, but how do you do a symmetrical chapter? How do you represent the smaller panels breaking out into larger onces very rarely at first, and quite often by the end? How do you simulate the hopping around cross-referencing images, details, and clues?


That said, I liked it. It's just not a patch on the original. I give in and 8.5

[CarlosMucha]

Watchmen was something to comics that could never be the same to movies.

BUT I CAN'T see many ways of how the movie could had been better, (even if they put ALL the comic step by step and the movie last 7 hours could had been better?) I DO IMAGINE 1000 ways to the movie to be worst.

I give it 9 of 10.

[adamical]

I give it a 7.5 out of 10. Overall, very good, if not great.

For my long-winded ramblings about the movie, see this post:
http://hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4142925#post4142925

In short: overdid the stylized violence throughout to the detriment of the ending; most of the actors were awesome except for the obvious exception of Adrian; some of the unfortunate cuts were much-needed character motivation and development for Rorschach, Jon, and especially Laurie; and my biggest problem was the feeling that most of the humanity of the comic was missing, with the near-entire absence of all the non-crimefighting characters, the superhumanization of the crimefighters, and the mentioned bad Adrian and underdeveloped Jon, Laurie, and Rorschach.

[adamical]

They can use the comic for storyboards, but how do you do a symmetrical chapter? How do you represent the smaller panels breaking out into larger onces very rarely at first, and quite often by the end? How do you simulate the hopping around cross-referencing images, details, and clues?


That said, I liked it. It's just not a patch on the original. I give in and 8.5

I think this is an important point, as the true significance of Watchmen was how it exploited the medium of comics, not how it deconstructed the genre of superheroes and the era of the Cold War.

We've had dozens of quality stories and plots to rival Watchmen, but we've never had another such utilization of the medium to tell that story.

[CarlosMucha]

I think they do the violence and sex in the movie to -in some way- make the people FEEL shooked like the readers feel shooked with the comic. The comic was shooking for comic fans in many ways, ways that could not be shooking for expectators of the movie. so "HOW we can make the movie adaptation be shooked for people and made Watchmen something hard to forget in some way??? lets make the scenes of sex and violence REALLY brutal"

If not with that, in what other way the movie could be shooking for not comic fans??? WITHOUT change the story even More???

[Pashmina]

6/10

It was fine. Great that it was uncompromising, but plain doesn't translate onto film perfectly. As it stands, you may as well just read the book.

It's main purpose IMO, is being a benchmark for what blockbuster or superhero movies can be; explicit, OTT and uncompromising.

But yeah. A lot of fanboyism here imo, or maybe It's just me.

Pointless slo-mo, and some of the acting was ropey.

Soundtrack was rubbish too. The songs are good songs, but they seemed slapped on randomly and totally inappropriately.

[Wyldstaar]

[B]Soundtrack was rubbish too. The songs are good songs, but they seemed slapped on randomly and totally inappropriately.

What songs in particular? I thought the soundtrack was excellent. At first glance Unforgettable would seem to not fit, but that was clearly done on purpose as a stark contrast between the harmony of the song and the chaos of the battle between The Comedian and Ozy. Times They Are A-Changin' made a great opening montage during the credits, giving the non-fanboys a glimpse into the history of the world Watchmen takes place in and how it changed from the 1940's to the 1970's with the Keene Act. Sound of Silence was fitting for a funeral, and pretty straightforward. Ride of the Valkyries is a tribute to Apocalypse Now, and generally associated with the war in Vietnam. All Along the Watchtower was taken directly from the graphic novel, and appears in the exact same scene as Rorschach and Nite Owl approached Ozy's frozen lair.

[DTM]

CURRENT HCR MEMBER RATING:

WATCHMEN - 8.00 / 10

(15 members rating)

[darius_dax1]

I liked the Watchmen.

But there was something that just didn't transfer from page to screen. I can't quite put my finger on it.

The jail and alley fight scenes were overly violent for what they needed to be. I agree that Silk Spectre needed some more character development.

It stayed VERY true to the source material and most diversions made sense for a screen play version.

I hated the actor that played Ozymandias. I felt he turned in the weakest performance of the bunch. Some have said I was supposed to dislike the character...I did...but I also disliked the characterization.

I very much want there to be, as much as this goes against anything Alan Moore would ever want, prequels to showcase the Comedian and the Nite-Owl/Rorschach adventures before the Watchmen.

I give it an 8/10.

[Pashmina]

What songs in particular? I thought the soundtrack was excellent. At first glance Unforgettable would seem to not fit, but that was clearly done on purpose as a stark contrast between the harmony of the song and the chaos of the battle between The Comedian and Ozy. Times They Are A-Changin' made a great opening montage during the credits, giving the non-fanboys a glimpse into the history of the world Watchmen takes place in and how it changed from the 1940's to the 1970's with the Keene Act. Sound of Silence was fitting for a funeral, and pretty straightforward. Ride of the Valkyries is a tribute to Apocalypse Now, and generally associated with the war in Vietnam. All Along the Watchtower was taken directly from the graphic novel, and appears in the exact same scene as Rorschach and Nite Owl approached Ozy's frozen lair.

It felt forced. Unforgettable and Dylan was fine, but Hallelujah was a bit of a piss take. AATWT may have worked on page, but you can't hear it in the book. It felt completely out of place on film.

As much as I like 99 Luftballoons, that felt squished in just cause it's about war/conflict. It was blunt and unsubtle.

[Magnito]

A solid 8/10 for me

[DTM]

Overall I liked it. Considering the massive task that was making this movie from such a Legendary (and length) comic series, I thought they did a darn good job, and even for someone who didnt know this story (ala my wife) its near 3 hour running time went by pretty quickly. I thought Ozmandius' DARKER costume almost gave him away as the baddie, but overall these guys looked, acted and sounded great (though not sure why the mugging and prison fight scenes needed such extra gore to them). Overall a very cool film, and while its not up there in my all time favorite comic films, it isnt That far behind. Ill go 8.25 here.

[the itsy bit]

great movie and I loved the songs.

9/10

[Inbetweener]

Love this story, love this movie. I actually just watched the director's cut recently and I loved it even more. The acting was strong for the most part but the action and special effects were outstanding. I'll rate it a 9 out of 10.

[W.I.T]

I never read the story, so even though I had an idea of what it was, I didn't know the details. I also never saw the movie in the theatre, only at home. I did buy the Directors Cut, and it was very long. I found that it seemed to drag a little during certain parts. Maybe I was expecting more action? Rorschach was the best part of the movie IMO ('You got it all wrong, you think I'm stuck in here with you? You're all stuck in here with me !!!!') Some parts were amazing, and others *snoozy*.

All in all a solid movie, but not even close to my favorite comic based movie by far.

7.5/10

[Manchine]

One of the worst movies, although not the worst. 3/10

[Sate]

This movie will forever be by go-to example of really, really bad directing.

Most other points of the movie were average and I thought the acting was actually GOOD so I apparently didn't hate it as much as Manchine. I give it a nice even 5/10 for most points being average and the Good acting almost canceling out the bad directing.

[Jawapimp]

One of the worst movies, although not the worst. 3/10

Agreed. I will never watch this movie again, man.

2/10

[CarlosMucha]

One of the worst movies, although not the worst. 3/10

What the heck?! :surprised :confused:

I watched again today at work. TWICE.

I still can't believe so great much story can be tell with almost only 6 characters.

[Darth Sabre]

So close to the comic. One of the better comic movies ever.

I'd give it an 8/10.

[necrodog]

I jjust got around to watching this. I haven't yet read the book, so I can only evaluate it as an action movie. But I liked it quite a lot. It was generally well done. Yeah, the violence is graphic but not inappropriately so. It could have been filmed less graphically, but so too could Underworld or Blade or any other similar film.
Laurie could use more character depth since the character is pivotal to the story's development, and Ozmandius isn't as impressive as he ought to be: I would have thought a more powerful and charismatic portrayal, not coming across as a yuppie geek. On the other hand, I could watch Jackie Earle Haley play a borderline sociopath all day (his Guerrero on Human Target makes the show).
For me, 7.5/10

[W.I.T]

I just re-watched this movie again recently, and I actually enjoyed it much more the second time around. Not sure why that was though?

[loganspeedo]

I actually read the Watchmen TPB after watching the movie and thought they kept pretty close to the source material until the ending. Very gruesome and definately not for kids, but I liked it. Kinda wonder how it would have been if they split it into two different movies like they have been lately. 8 out of 10 because of length, It's hard to devote more than 2 hours to one movie these days.

[Wyldstaar]

I was at Half-Price Books yesterday, and they had Watchmen- The Ultimate Cut on bluray. After my 15% off coupon, it was only $25.49! The cheapest used copy on Amazon is $69 plus shipping. Haven't had a chance to watch it yet, as I'm prepping for The Avengers tomorrow at midnight. When I have four hours to spare, I'll check it out and do a review.

[Eargosedown]

Okay, I'm a bit late to the party, but last month I reread watchmen and watched the movie. Here's an honest review after watching it a few times, and reading the books.

Going to break down into a few sections:

Acting, Visuals, Atmosphere, and Plot, then average them out for a score.

Acting:
I'll start with the casting. I believe that this was one of the best casted films in terms of accuracy of characters. The only character I felt was poorly casted was Matthew Goode as Veidt, because he just seemed too young and didn't carry himself quite the same way as the others in relation to their comic accuracy. The acting itself was fair for the book, but being so true to the source material allowed the actors very little room to breath and interpret scenes to add more feeling to them. I'm not entirely sure, then, I can fault or praise the actors too much as they were very trapped by the film in a sense. What room they had though was acceptable. They still conveyed emotion well enough, with some doing exceptionally well.
9/10

Visuals:
The visuals were literally amazing. The stylization of the film was unique and very much conveyed the feeling of a comic book drama. However, I didn't feel some parts were a little too over the top--even in a "no holds barred" movie like this. Particularly the gruesome breaking of a few bones, which added nothing to the film and was just there seemingly for shock. The sawing of Larry's arms really didn't need to be as graphic either, as it disrupts the tensions of the pacing and just leaves the viewer with a sense of disgust and nausea--however, it did make a little more sense as to why they killed him than the novels version.
I was particularly impressed with the cgi effects of Dr. Manhattan, who I feared would look horrible in motion.

8/10

Atmosphere:
There's both good and bad here. The musical intro really kicked things off (readas: nerdgasm) well, and at least the first two scenes kept up that pacing well. The funeral scene with the flashbacks helped very much to paint the tone of the Comedian, while giving the viewer a sense of him being the total dickhead that he was (or at least, how you're intended to feel about him up until then.) However, much of the tension seems non-existent from the visuals of the film. The only way you can really understand that there's supposed to be a lot of stress and whatnot through everyone from the war escalations is to be constantly told it's happening. Your atmosphere is poor if I need to constantly be reminded that everyone is tense verbally!
So this is really where the emotional impact of the film seems to fall through, things just kind of get stuck about mid way and there appears to be no clear direction or movement of emotions. Instead of feeling tensed and stressed the way the mid of the book gets you feeling, the movie just leaves the viewer kind of confused, trying to grasp onto what the frack they're supposed to be feeling.
5/10

Plot:
While a lot was cut from the movie, I think the original draft works pretty well there. The major change with the main Veidt plot was better for cinematic reasons--I don't think I giant monster alien would have really worked for a movie haha. However, many things that help the tension develop and be conveyed mid-film that were cut (killing of first Nite Owl, the guy murdering his two children to save them from the nuclear war, etc) really hurt the atmosphere. My only real issue of the film was the time dedicated to the sex scene... just unnecessary and boring and stopped the pacing of the film. I understand that sex sells, but zzz.
Ultimately, I didn't feel that Ozymandias was built up enough as a hero, or really explored as a villain to make the whole plot work, so it really flops in that sense. The changing of Rorschach's death being witnessed by Nite Owl seemed to work better for the movie as well, but Jon's real reasoning behind his actions aren't developed enough to make him seem like anything but kind of just a dickish guy. We never really feel how unattached to human aspect he is... how confused he is on how humans work, and how his realization on Mars changed his view of reality.
Plot changes helped the film work as a film, but the shortcomings really ruined a lot.
3/10

Overall, the movie is good, but takes a tentative watcher to really piece together everything. In the end, I think the movie just simply didn't work because of the time slot needed, and by cutting out all the little visual things and cues and atmosphere, the whole movie kind of dies off.
While I really loved the movie initially, and still do, it's mostly fan-girl-ism for the novel than a real appreciation of what the movie did.

Overall rating average: 6.25

Don't watch it if you haven't read it, you probably will dislike it or be left confused.