Ep.22: Hammer of Thor Dials Myth or Fact?!

[ibeatdrew]

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=267&pictureid=5045Clixcast Episode 22: Hammer of Thor Dials Myth or Fact?!
In this Episode Steve and Gudda talk about the "leaked" Hammer of Thor dials and the regular Hijinxs Ensues.
Episode 22
P6d86a6dfa5589e308782e77abd82fc83Yl5wS1REYWB2

[gudda]

after some soul searching and some alone time .. i have come to the conclusion that .. The Leaked dials are the final dials. Man power creep is crazy.

[Thunderclese]

I think they may be untested dials in need of fine tuning.

[ckstdefiant]

Where did you find this information?

[vamroc]

Did you see Eminem in XXL they've got a comic where he meets The Punisher and it's art is really solid but in order to know how it ends you've got to go to Marvel. com

[ibeatdrew]

Where did you find this information?

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256859 here ya go meant to post it before but forgot.

[ibeatdrew]

Did you see Eminem in XXL they've got a comic where he meets The Punisher and it's art is really solid but in order to know how it ends you've got to go to Marvel. com

Don't get me started on that. No Comment.

[grey_zealot]

(1) Fun podcast.

(2) I think it was Gudda who complained that, in regards to the leaked Hot dials, "we" didn't need "that version" of Spider-Man (the version slated to appear in HoT was a Spidey-Thor from Marvel Adventures).

Why not? We already have 20+ distinct versions of Spider-Man in the game, why not an interesting variation that kinda/sorta fits the set theme?

Since you confess that your favorite character is Spidey, what would you want to see? (That isn't already in the game, I mean.)
===========
I guess I'm trying to figure out why certain fans of comics and the game react in certain ways to character selection/dial design, the "why" of it.

I'm a comic geek. I'd love to see new characters enter the game, and I like to see previously "published" characters re-done with a twist.

I've never looked at a re-done character and thought, "They shouldn't have made that version." I've thought "That could've been better" though, like, for example, KC Batman from Unleashed.

Remember when we got a peek of the DC ICONS LE Dark Knight Detective mail-away? Some Realmsers wailed loudly about what a travesty it was that a version of Batman had been made that didn't have Outwit or Willpower. It was a break from a comfortable norm, and fun to play, to try to build a team around him that complimented its strengths.

I guess it is the same with Captain America for HoT. No, we haven't gotten a "definitive" version of 616 Cap yet, but the HoT Cap looks fun to play. And there are other versions available if you don't like that one.

So, why not that HoT Spidey-Thor? What would you rather see?

Just asking.

[ibeatdrew]

(2) I think it was Gudda who complained that, in regards to the leaked Hot dials, "we" didn't need "that version" of Spider-Man (the version slated to appear in HoT was a Spidey-Thor from Marvel Adventures).

It wasn't so much he was talking about "Marvel Adventures Spidey" I think he was referring to the rookie dial....We already have so many underpowered Spidey's in the Heroclix Universe. Why not give us a better one? I think that is what he was referring to. That dial there....along with Daredevil's is just a typical Spidey Dial, why not give us something with some more juice.

I have also always found it not cool when they pick a "version" of a character to do, that only appeared for 1-2 issues. There isn't enough content there for me to justify the creation of a clix, unless there is fan outcry. I think fans would rather see a "Cosmic Powered" Spidey over a 1 to 2 issue Asgard Spidey who is weak. But then again I am in the same boat....Cosmic Powered Spidey I think only ran for a bout the same 1-2 issues then the power left him.....but that's the case with most people who have attained that power...they only kept it for 1-2 issues. I personally am fine with that Spidey, I think he'll be a little hokey, but then I probably won't run him much anyway....that's if the set comes out.

[Glen Quagmire]

We had a couple of 100-pt range Spideys a few years there (Sinister Veteran, NGN Spidey, Stark armored Spidey from Avengers). Not to say they should quit with those, but by and large I think Spidey figures (since we get one every set) should be routinely less than 60 points. Of course, that's me talking as less of a Spider-Man fan than the guys on the show. But anecdotally, I've always seen the 40-point Universe Spidey, the Vet Ultimate Spidey and the SI Spidey get played a ton, whereas the more expensive ones I see played every once in a while. The SI Spidey, specifically, I've seen across the board from me almost weekly.

[Prof. Aragorn]

We had a couple of 100-pt range Spideys a few years there (Sinister Veteran, NGN Spidey, Stark armored Spidey from Avengers). Not to say they should quit with those, but by and large I think Spidey figures (since we get one every set) should be routinely less than 60 points. Of course, that's me talking as less of a Spider-Man fan than the guys on the show. But anecdotally, I've always seen the 40-point Universe Spidey, the Vet Ultimate Spidey and the SI Spidey get played a ton, whereas the more expensive ones I see played every once in a while. The SI Spidey, specifically, I've seen across the board from me almost weekly.

I think it's more of a playable/cost efficiency than it is Spider-Man dial that plays like Spidey.

Don't get me wrong, slap the right amount of feats on the SI Spidey and he plays exactly as Spider-Man should play, however whenever we get a 100+ Spider-Man, there's something about him that doesn't make him worth 100+ points. He deals too little damage (trading incapacitate for close combat expert), he's missing key powers (like Super Senses, Outwit, Perplex, Willpower, etc.), or he lacks mobility (Mutant Mayhem Spidey is a lot of points and not worth the pounce. Avengers Spidey is really good, but has trouble with being mobile as the Sinister Spideys).

However, now with Indomitable, Traits, and special powers, a 100+ Spider-Man wouldn't have the limitations of prior Spider-Mans.

I'd love to see a Spider-Man with transporter, indomitable, taunt as a trait, and the various powers he deserves (like an 18 with super senses, close combat expert, and decent attack values down the dial), particularly in the classic red and blue suit (with web underarms).

[gudda]

(1) Fun podcast.

(2) I think it was Gudda who complained that, in regards to the leaked Hot dials, "we" didn't need "that version" of Spider-Man (the version slated to appear in HoT was a Spidey-Thor from Marvel Adventures).

Why not? We already have 20+ distinct versions of Spider-Man in the game, why not an interesting variation that kinda/sorta fits the set theme?

Since you confess that your favorite character is Spidey, what would you want to see? (That isn't already in the game, I mean.)
===========
I guess I'm trying to figure out why certain fans of comics and the game react in certain ways to character selection/dial design, the "why" of it.

I'm a comic geek. I'd love to see new characters enter the game, and I like to see previously "published" characters re-done with a twist.

I've never looked at a re-done character and thought, "They shouldn't have made that version." I've thought "That could've been better" though, like, for example, KC Batman from Unleashed.

Remember when we got a peek of the DC ICONS LE Dark Knight Detective mail-away? Some Realmsers wailed loudly about what a travesty it was that a version of Batman had been made that didn't have Outwit or Willpower. It was a break from a comfortable norm, and fun to play, to try to build a team around him that complimented its strengths.

I guess it is the same with Captain America for HoT. No, we haven't gotten a "definitive" version of 616 Cap yet, but the HoT Cap looks fun to play. And there are other versions available if you don't like that one.

So, why not that HoT Spidey-Thor? What would you rather see?

Just asking.

Im not complaining about who the spider man is .. i dont care it was Thor SPidey .. when i made the coment i was just talking about the dial (lesse extent keywords). We have Spider-man(men) comparablel to that dial. I dont think there is anything wrong with that dial,but I (being a huge spidey fan) want A red and blue costume Veteran All grown up MARRIED spider-man. I want him over the top Kick ### spidey . I want a spidey
who Is ( as i see him ) one of THE TOP Marvel Heros. Where he fits in the points skeem .. i dont know. I just want a really hard to hit , fast talking , Spidey who can if need be deliver that super punch that ends a fight at the last moment .. for comic fans i want the spidey that lifted that entire underwater base of his back.

[Sensualninja]

My bad Guys, Starlord is a Sharpshooter I editted it later

[grey_zealot]

Im not complaining about who the spider man is .. i dont care it was Thor SPidey .. when i made the coment i was just talking about the dial (lesse extent keywords). We have Spider-man(men) comparablel to that dial. I dont think there is anything wrong with that dial,but I (being a huge spidey fan) want A red and blue costume Veteran All grown up MARRIED spider-man. I want him over the top Kick ### spidey . I want a spidey
who Is ( as i see him ) one of THE TOP Marvel Heros. Where he fits in the points skeem .. i dont know. I just want a really hard to hit , fast talking , Spidey who can if need be deliver that super punch that ends a fight at the last moment .. for comic fans i want the spidey that lifted that entire underwater base of his back.

Ah, O.K., I get what you meant now.
I agree on wanting another, adult version of 616 Spidey in the traditional red & blues.

We had a couple of 100-pt range Spideys a few years there (Sinister Veteran, NGN Spidey, Stark armored Spidey from Avengers). Not to say they should quit with those, but by and large I think Spidey figures (since we get one every set) should be routinely less than 60 points. Of course, that's me talking as less of a Spider-Man fan than the guys on the show. But anecdotally, I've always seen the 40-point Universe Spidey, the Vet Ultimate Spidey and the SI Spidey get played a ton, whereas the more expensive ones I see played every once in a while. The SI Spidey, specifically, I've seen across the board from me almost weekly.

O.K., I might be launching off onto a tangent here....

SECRET INVASION. The "A"/"B" (Human/Skrull) figures and dials. One sculpt, two dials. For SI, both dials were worth the same in points. One "double character card" covered both versions.

If the game continues beyond AA, it would be nice to see A/B dials, but changed up a bit.

Like, say, we get the desired adult Spidey in the red & blues in an A/B version. One could be the "around 100 points", "maxed-out", "comic accurate" version; the other would be the "low-point/hyper-efficient" version, between 40 and 60 points.

Same powers and/or Special Powers on each version, so one character card still covers both. (I know that's different than SI's A/B's, as the Human/Skrulls often had different Special Powers and what-not.)
-------------------
Definitely agree on the use of Traits to free up dial space.

I'd like to see a Vet 616 Captain America done A/B as above, but given a Leadership Trait to free up the damage slot for other powers.

[ibeatdrew]

SECRET INVASION. The "A"/"B" (Human/Skrull) figures and dials. One sculpt, two dials. For SI, both dials were worth the same in points. One "double character card" covered both versions.

If the game continues beyond AA, it would be nice to see A/B dials, but changed up a bit.

Like, say, we get the desired adult Spidey in the red & blues in an A/B version. One could be the "around 100 points", "maxed-out", "comic accurate" version; the other would be the "low-point/hyper-efficient" version, between 40 and 60 points.

Same powers and/or Special Powers on each version, so one character card still covers both. (I know that's different than SI's A/B's, as the Human/Skrulls often had different Special Powers and what-not.)

Totally Disagree We don't need anymore A/B dials. It was hard enough to get certain versions of these characters and even more confusing keeping track of which ones were on the table.

[Mr. Cranberry]

Granted we got those 100pt Spideys, but by and large they all fell short of what he can do.

We need one that has the following:

Iron Spidey's double Incap.

SI's Spidey's Flurry with the option of Incap.

Was it Donna Troy from Crisis that had the ability to pull an opposing figure adjacent to her? This is a great way to represent Spidey's webs. Sorta like a reverse OotS.

Strange's Eye of Agamatto is a nice trait to show his Spidey Sense finding foes hiding in shadows.

And Spider-Girl has the great movement power to show he can move while making either a close or ranged attack.

Another trait would be a 3-6 Senses roll along with not taking pushing damage or Indomitable.

Plus Spidey is always getting janked in the stat area as well. His AVs should be on par with Bats & Cap, a couple 11's nothing less than 9 and an upswing near the end.

He should warrant at least a single 4, and a few three's. Unless they top out at three and he gets a combo of CCE for his experience and EW for his use of the Spidey sense to guide his attacks to the weak spot of his opponents. He is also a great candidate for OW & Perplex.

And his Defense should be starting no less than 19 and having that late upswing going to an 18. CR Nightwing has a great DV power to add extra defense.

He's also one of the hardest characters to put down in a fight, giving him at least a nine click dial.

He also routinely attacks multiple foes with both hands so a 6 range triple target is valid for him.

Basically combining the best attributes of SI Spidey, AV Spidey, Spider-Girl, SI Strange, CR Donna Troy & CR Nightwing along with not taking Pushing Damage would give us an accurate 616 Veteran Spidey. And if they use the point formula they used to make OotS & Ms Skrull-Vell then this version of Spidey would only cost 100pts even. :cheeky::grin:

[ophyjgjhnfn]

Um... okay. So, I will say that putting Spidey on par with Cap and the Bats for attack is okay. Proportionate strength and all. Shoot, give him a SS special with Iron Spidey's Incap thrown in called Proportionate Strength.

But triple target? Uh, no. That's... I'm sorry, ridiculous. Shooting around stuff with Eye of the Spider (cue kitty music)? No way. That belongs on guys like Darkseid. Spider-Man's spider senses are much better portrayed in other ways (SSs) than that.

And as for defense... I really don't see what all of you are thinking crying for them to jack up Spidey's defenses. The guy gets hit by random garbage sometimes people. Spidey is my favorite Marvel character but he in no way needs 19s to start working down to 16 with ESD. He's seriously not that hard to hit. That's what SS represents. Give him the new Thor defense power if that suits your liking, even as a trait. That's cool. Don't jack up his defense just because of Creep (TM).

Flurry? Sweet. Troy's power? I see it. Works great for me. Indomitable? Oh my gosh I could rant forever on that. He has willpower but he's no Superman.

My point is that Spidey should stay at a nice, affordable, efficient package deal that can get him on any team and have him do his job. I recognize the Creep (TM) but I don't think Spidey needs to keep Asgardian powers (see debate on new keyword) from this point on.

[Mr. Cranberry]

Let me just counter a few points...

Spidey getting hit. On the times that the random B-Level villain is able to hit him there's usually existing factors involved. Stan Lee would have Peter down with a cold. Spidey would need to take the hit to keep innocent people protected. The villain may have found a way around his Spidey Sense. Today's writer's just use it as a plot device.

You might want to check out a few back issues on the Spidey being on par with Supes in the WP department. There are a good number of references to showcase this, but the main one involves Mephisto trying to break Spidey's will. Oatu the Watcher is there conversing with Mephisto and mentions that Spider-man has the the greatest/or greater than Cap/ willpower on earth. So, yeah.

And how else should you represent Spidey webbing up an entire group of baddies than without triple targets? He able to hit multiple targets with each hand. Maybe add in the WW special that allows you to Incap those adjacent to the target and leave him with only two targets?

I am on the fence about the Eye of Spidey, but he is able to "see" the baddies that are trying to hide from him. Blocking terrain would still stop him. Though he's also been know to talk up a baddie while secretly shooting his webs behind him to web up the leader that was trying to sneak out the back door.

And please don't ask for specific issue numbers...that's just a precursor to arguments. I do have every appearance of Spidey back to 1967, and those prior I have in the Essential reprints.

The only ones I don't have are the Other story arc and some recent things that Quesada has overseen. I'm still holding back judgement on BND.

[ophyjgjhnfn]

Ugh, no issues, yeah. I will be the first to admit that *I* am not well versed in comics in general or Spider-Man in specific. I don't need to here "book and verse" as proof. You're word is good.

I suppose I really just don't like the idea of Spidey being "pimped" like some of the recent figs. He's just... Spidey. Plain and simple the way we like him.

But I have to say, I didn't consider the WW power... ;) Nice call on that. I could get behind that one.

[Mr. Cranberry]

In all honesty he'd just need to be hard to hit, hig DV, Senses, SC...etc. You know annoying.

He should be able to Incap the bejeezus out of the opposing team while using things akin to Vault & Maneuver.

Damage at 3 would be fine, but he needs powers like OW & Perplex to show his intelligence along with EW or something similar.

And the rest of his stats should be on par with the other A-Listers.

And he always needs to have the option to move and attack, that's why he's so good is that he's always moving and confusing the opponent

[grey_zealot]

Totally Disagree We don't need anymore A/B dials. It was hard enough to get certain versions of these characters and even more confusing keeping track of which ones were on the table.

Oh, come on, it wasn't that bad, was it?

Personally, I still had an easier time completing the A/B's in SI than rounding up the last of the SR's I needed. And along with the Moloids, Atlantean Warriors, and such, it was another reason to keep buying loose boosters.

And to clarify: I'm not saying every character in a release needs to have A/B versions. I think SI's spread over the Common, Uncommon, and Rare slots had it about right.

[Indiana Ton]

I'll agree with a few of the Spidey suggestions, but there are a few things that just can't be missing from Spidey.

They should give him Supersenses and Incapacitate as traits... Those are two things that he NEVER is without. Pretty much the definition of traits for him...
Dual targets are a must! As long as he has 18 defense at least once, no one will complain.

Any powers given to him after these minimums, will be icing on the cake. Combat Reflexes, Super Strength, Willpower, Taunt or Pounce special power...ect. No one would complain, and it would be the ultimate spiderman made. (I wouldn't mind tossing in some perplex or outwit for flavor...)

Just my two cents...

Oh, and if the HCRealms gods would fix the Spiderman Avatars, I would use them as well... The links are broken/not working.

[sgtregis]

SECRET INVASION. The "A"/"B" (Human/Skrull) figures and dials. One sculpt, two dials. For SI, both dials were worth the same in points. One "double character card" covered both versions.

If the game continues beyond AA, it would be nice to see A/B dials, but changed up a bit.

Like, say, we get the desired adult Spidey in the red & blues in an A/B version. One could be the "around 100 points", "maxed-out", "comic accurate" version; the other would be the "low-point/hyper-efficient" version, between 40 and 60 points.

Same powers and/or Special Powers on each version, so one character card still covers both. (I know that's different than SI's A/B's, as the Human/Skrulls often had different Special Powers and what-not.)
-------------------
Definitely agree on the use of Traits to free up dial space.

I'd like to see a Vet 616 Captain America done A/B as above, but given a Leadership Trait to free up the damage slot for other powers.

I actually like this idea a lot. I did not have much of a problem getting the A/B versions like I did the SR (I still don't have the Armor Spidey from Avengers). And if this was done, and as some people still miss the REV versions, this would actually be a great way to give those versions, by use of the card, and the trick used in HrC.

You mentioned Spidey as an adult 100 point tricked out version, and a second efficient version around 40-60 points. The card would describe all the abilities shown on the dial as usual, but use different starting lines along the dial. Give the 100 point Spidey say 9 clicks, a 75 point Spidey 7 clicks, and the 50 point spidey 5 clicks. Just set the dial on the appropriate starting click and away you go. Instant REV substitution, one card for all versions, one sculpt (you don't need different dials so you only need one sculpt). It would actually be a very easy way to do an REV figure using the CURSR system.

Rep to you for that great idea. I'll have to pass this on to my venue for discussion!

aauggh. must spread rep around...