Batman Enemy Fliers

[Styrix]

Other than Man Bat, who else would make a good Batman Enemy flier, both considering current figs, and dreaming of future releases?

[bjmc1975]

At least one incarnation of Firefly (or was it Firebug?) flew. I think Killer Moth did at least in one version. And they could make a helicoptor or jet pack Joker. That's all I can think of without actually looking stuff up.

[AaronUnicorn]

There are precious few. Most of Batman's enemies just aren't, well, four-color enough to fly. It's something obviously super-powered, and Batman's enemies are, for the most part, psychotics, who if they have super-powers, they include hideous deformities.

There's the option of Firefly as a flyer. If you really wanted, you could make the Penguin have a helicopter umbrella (it's not the most uncommon of his gimmicks). And then there's the female Man-Bat (Langstrom's wife). And then there's....

Well, there's always....

But then there's.....

Never mind. Batman belongs in the alleyways and on the rooftops, and so do his villains. Leave the soaring villains to go bother that guy from another planet in Metropolis. Any flyer in Gotham would get tangled up in all the grapling lines haging off of the gargoyles.

[green_knight]

thec could easily make batman and his team fliers, didn't they use the bat-glider at one time?

I would also like to see a KGBeast figure. Even thought he doesn't fly

[Styrix]

How about a Batman Enemy with leadership (Joker? Ridler? Twoface, Penguine, etc.) or a Batman Enemy with Will Power.

I ask, because the biggest problem I have with DC only Batman Enemy teams is the lack of mobility.

[dmac7979]

you could make the Penguin have a helicopter umbrella

Wow! I somehow forgot the Penguin even existed. Who would he translate into clix?

[AaronUnicorn]

Well, the Penguin is fun, because he could have such an amazingly colorful dial. Off the top of my head, he could have:

Leadership
Mastermind
Energy Explosion
Incapacitate
RCE
Flight (if they wanted to)
He needs some ranged, I'd say a 6

[Joe Kerr]

Firefly and a Jet Pack Joker would be awesome additions into my collection. Killer Moth would be a cheap flier.

[Wyldstaar]

AaronUnicorn pretty much covered it, with one exception. Killer Moth, who didn't fly, sold his soul to the demon Neron allowing him to become Charaxes. Charaxes, who can fly, is an insect-like creature, who has appeared in the past couple issues of Robin lately. Since in those issues Charaxes had CHILDREN, there could be a bunch of them on the way soon.

That's about it. Traditionally, superpowered beings are not in Batman stories. There are exceptions of course, but even then the powers tend to focus around basics like strength. Likely future members of the Batman Enemy team are:

Scarecrow
Penguin
Two-Face
Mr. Freeze
Poison Ivy
Ra's Al Ghul
Clayface (Matt Hagen)
Killer Croc
Black Mask
Scarface
Charaxes
Lady Shiva

B-List Villains include:

Clock King
Cluemaster
Dr. Hugo Strange
Maxie Zeus
Lockup
KGBeast

[Batman1983]

Yes we need a lot with the Bat Enemies ( & the Sinister Sindicate just not as much). Witch one will be Bats new Arch enemy? My vote is for Two-Face or Ra's Al Ghul. I don't think Penguin should cause he hasn't always been bad. Two-Face has played a big role in Batman comics a couple years ago & Ra's Al Ghul is just a likely one. I hope we don't get a lot of bat villians in the next set, but I do want Penguin (leadership), Two-Face (prob control?), Mr. Freeze, & Poison Ivy some time in the next 2 DC sets.

[Aron]

the New clock king (ie from the batman cartoon should be A list :P)

Penguin's vet may be reformed?

Black Mask and Killer Croc Just can't be A list...


From the looks of it, they almost Have to make a unique penguin with umbrella copter.. I think Penguin should have leadership, as should two face as well (but two face may be rather weak, considering he's more perplexing than a leader)

[Maximillion1]

Why would Two-face have probability control? Is there something about him that I don't know?

[JacinB]

Originally posted by Aron
the New clock king (ie from the batman cartoon should be A list :P)

Penguin's vet may be reformed?

Black Mask and Killer Croc Just can't be A list...

*in my best David Spade voice*

"Wha-a-at?"

Okay, man, I'm not sure what comics you're reading but that is not the current DCU which is what clix will focus on.

1) Black Mask is a major villian. He is the major villian in Catwoman right now. He's also the leader of one of the most powerful crime syndicates in Gotham.

2) Killer Croc is also a major villian. He has been one of the headliners of the current Hush storyline, and he was the only real, pure super-strength villian Batman fought prior to Bane.

3) Penguin? Reformed? You do know that he was never a legit business man, right? And even during the past few years when Batman has allowed him to operate through that club he's been running, all of his business has been with thieves and mafia-types, right? Reformed? Hardly. Just not criminally insane enough to be in Arkham. And besides that, he died last month in Detective Comics, so it's kind of a moot point ...

[Aron]

Black Mask is A - list now? ugh. I remember reading his intro story and he seemed more than a little contrived, and compared to the "Classic" A - list, a non contender.

Killer Croc may be a long time Batman villain and yea he's caused bats a few problems in the past - but major villain?

I'm a classic late 70s - 80s - 90s era DCU and Marvel fan.. I'm honestly suprised they've decided to make these B-listers role in the continuity that much greater....

As for penguin "never" being legitimate, well - he's scaled back his criminal enterprises granted. *shrug* That is why I said "reformed?" though. (as in possibly not batman enemy - simply non affiliated) *shrug*

Dc- clix focusing on the current continuity? I don't think so - look at Hal Jordan promo, Catwoman (old costume), etc. They're definetely going to handle old continuity simply for name recognition over newer continuity/storylines. How many non regular batman readers know who Killer Croc was before the TV series?

As for B - listers

Who remembers The Gentleman Ghost?

[SimonMoon5]

Another Batman enemy flyer that everyone's forgotten about:

Kite-Man!

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Aron
Dc- clix focusing on the current continuity? I don't think so - look at Hal Jordan promo, Catwoman (old costume), etc.

Eh, I don't think Catwoman's a good example. Her REV version was the brand spankin' new version of her costume, the version of her that hasn't been around long enough to deserve an REV version.

But they did make a unique Catwoman with a previous costume... It's still what I'd call pretty recent. It's not like they gave her the purple dress with the green cape or anything...

[Aron]

Well - a few other examples:

Hawk and Dove (much more in tune with 80s continuity and popularity)
Joker with his poison fish (that was a 70s or 80s storyline was it not?) and the Hat (which again, was more 80s)
Jay Garrick flash (older character who happens to still be around)
The Key (who was bigger in the 80s wasn't he?)
Reborn Superman (post death of superman - mid 90s)
Booster Gold JLA (80s - 90s)

I would say the continuity is quite open to older and newer versions, especially in terms of recognizable characters *shrug*

[SimonMoon5]

Well, the Key's current incarnation as pictured in 'clix is definitely the brand new version, not the brown and orange classic version. And he was never "big"... so he's probably had more (or about the same number of) appearances in the last few years than in all of the 80s (and possibly 70s too).

I'll go through all the various figures:

Generics-- don't apply except...
Checkmate Agents. Not used recently. A point for old.

Huntress-- I'd say the "new" Huntress-- but unlike you, I still think of anything after about 87-88 as being "new". I'll consider her neutral.

Robin-- Not Dikck Grayson, Not Jason Todd, but the "new" Robin. Still, perhaps he's been around enough that this is a neutral figure.

Hawkman-- The brand new version. A point for new. On the other hand, his look isn't completely different from the old (though it *is* slightly different), so take away a quarter point, making this only 0.75 points for new.

Harley-- Definitely a new addition to the comics stable. A point for new.

Catwoman-- old is completely dissed. The brand new version gets an REV! The slightly less new version gets a unique. Point for new... possibly point and a half.

Man-Bat: neutral.
Riddler: neutral.
Mad Hatter: neutral.
TO Morrow: neutral. (Though he has appeared a lot lately.)

Aquaman: definitely not old school. But his new look isn't too new. Half a point for new.

Blue Beetle: neutral (since he's at least been making some sporadic appearances lately)

Booster Gold: definitely not his new look... but he was never all that old to begin with. Half a point for old.

Nightwing: not his classic Teen Titans Nightwing costume... but his new costume isn't all that new. Half a point for new.

Changeling: not called Beast Boy, so half a point for old.

Steel: I guess this is a recent costume, since I sure don't remember it. Point for new.

Gorilla Grodd: neutral.
Solomon Grundy: neutral. Has been seen a lot lately, thanks to Starman.

Black Manta: point for old.
Weather Wizard: new costume. Point for new.
Clayface III: what the ****?! They completely screwed up his powers. Point for people who don't know what they're doing.

Hawk and Dove: haven't been around a while. Two points for old... but Dove is now appearing in JSA, so -0.1 points... making only 1.9 points for old.

Bane: epitomizes the stupidity of new characters like Doomsday and, uh, Bane. Point for new.

Doomsday: ditto.

Joker: neutral.
Plastic Man: neutral even though you *know* the only reason he's here is because of his recent exposure in JLA.
Flash: neutral, since I can't tell which Flash this is supposed to be.

Batman: look at the costume. Blue briefs? Yellow circle? No and no. Point for new.

Superman: neutral.
Arcane: point for old.
Swamp Thing: hasn't been seen much lately... but it hasn't been *that* long. 0.5 points for old

Brainiac *THIRTEEN*?!!! Point for new.
Leech-mouth Parasite? Point for new.
Desaad & Darkseid : neutral.
Gordon: neutral.
Key: new look, point for new.
U Joker: point for old.
U Flash: neutral since he's a current star. Lightning on legs, though, is 0.25 points for old.

U Batman: point for old, I guess.
U Superman: recent Death of Superman story (80s/90s), so point for new.

LE's... ignored.

SO, by my totals, that's...

8.65 points for old and 12.75 for new. New wins.

[PMMJ]

Hmmm, I don't know about 1988 being the delineator between new and old. That was 15 years ago, old enough to get a learner's permit to drive. :}

[Aron]

Originally posted by SimonMoon5
[B] I still think of anything after about 87-88 as being "new".

Ehhhh.... 87 - 88 is fairly old. Everything pre 96 is old I'd say.


Harley-- Definitely a new addition to the comics stable. A point for new.


Considering I consider 95 as just the very upper edge of "old" *shrug*


Nightwing: not his classic Teen Titans Nightwing costume... but his new costume isn't all that new. Half a point for new.


His rookiee appears as a titan, half a point for old :P


Clayface III: what the ****?! They completely screwed up his powers. Point for people who don't know what they're doing.


Clayface III had these powers while working in the Mud Pack.


Bane: epitomizes the stupidity of new characters like Doomsday and, uh, Bane. Point for new.


Since i consider 95 "old" then i'd say these two are in the "older" category *shrug*


Batman: look at the costume. Blue briefs? Yellow circle? No and no. Point for new.


They may've simply left those details off since they may've unneccessarily added to the cost of producing him. So he can't count.


U Superman: recent Death of Superman story (80s/90s), so point for new.


Well by my timeline point for old :P

By my count: 11.65 points for old and 10.25 for new. Old and New are too close to really say old is completely out. (I'd make a quote about referendums and Quebec here but i can't be bothered ;P)

Marvel clearly has a lot of 80s versions of characters and I'm quite sure this will continue with DC.

[Styrix]

Originally posted by Aron
(I'd make a quote about referendums and Quebec here but i can't be bothered ;P) Tee-hee! :p

[Rictor]

Just saw you forgot an amazing Bat-enemy, the coolest assassin for Gotham City:

Zazs

[webhead817]

Perhaps we could establish Zero Hour as the dividing line between new stuff and old stuff? Or, Crisis, but DC has provided a few points of reference.

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Aron

Clayface III had these powers while working in the Mud Pack.


I recall Clayface I getting all the powers of the other Clayfaces after the Mud Pack storyline, but I don't recall Clayface III gaining additional powers.

[Aron]

Clayface III was targetted for assimilation by Clayface I in the mud pack series for his "poisonous/burning touch" - which was the entire reason he was contained in that bio-armor suit - once his suit was breached or later in a fight he would remove his glove, and relied on his touch. He could shape change (to a limited degree, not to the same extent as matt hagen - hence shape change and plasticity) toughness would represent his armor, most likely.

I don't see where "additional" powers for clayface III come into it? Those were the powers he had at that time

Clayface 1 had NO powers whatsoever - hence his plan to steal the powers of Hagen and Clayface III and the woman Clayface

[Bluntman1138]

back for the original question, what about those Playing card guys(cant remember the teams name) They flew around on those playinng card majic carpet thingies(to early to thing). just a thought

[SimonMoon5]

Originally posted by Bluntman1138
back for the original question, what about those Playing card guys(cant remember the teams name) They flew around on those playinng card majic carpet thingies(to early to thing). just a thought

Well, the Royal Flush Gang are Justice League enemies, not Batman enemies. (Of course, we have to ignore the rather lackluster Batman Beyond cartoon.)

[MarkFinn]

Originally posted by SimonMoon5
Another Batman enemy flyer that everyone's forgotten about:

Kite-Man!

No, we didn't forget. We blotted it from our minds.
Batman has had his share of dumb villains (some of which, like Calendar Man, have been admirably revamped into coolness). Kite-Man, on the other hand, is, was, and ever shall be, four different kinds of stupid.

If Batman villains like Kite-Man and Crazy Quilt start showing up, we may as well include the green, Bug-Eyed-Aliens that always plagued Batman and Robin in the 1950's. Or a bunch of robots. Those were always good for a laugh. Robots.

Batman villains don't fly in to attack. They command henchmen to attack while they run away. It's a matter of playing style, not a lack of fliers.

[Styrix]

How about Batman Enemies with Telekinesis?

[I Am The Game]

As far as back issues go, there's a grey area in the neighborhood of 1984 thru 1986 that starts the modern era, with Secret Wars and Crisis being the starting point.

For the purposes of clix, though, I'd use 1991, simply because everyone flooded the market with garbage, and everyone thought they'd make a million bucks.