View Full Version : Marvel Heroclix Revised Edition
Strikeforce
02/10/2003, 18:35
You know its going to happen, just look at Mage Knight Alpha, Beta for example. Wizkids is going to do it, lets just hope they do it right by remaking some original figures with a little more thought involved in them and their background (we have faith in your John :D ).
For example, which figs would you want to see re-made with more justifiable stats and powers? My pics are the following:
#1) Magneto: Possible one of the most powerful mutants (homo-superior), Mags should have had a defense of 18-17-16 with defend off the hop lasting for a few clicks because of his force fields he uses to protect himself and others. Then he should gain invulnerability instead when he hits a 16 defense then to toughness at 15-14 then deflection when his defense hits about 14, as he makes a personal force field. I can also see him with two targets and incapacitate near the end of his dial with his last click being a pulse wave for the last chance.
#2) Rogue: Now I know you think this is a mutant lover thread but it is not. These are the figures I would like to see remade the most because I felt that they did not get the powers/stats that I would have given them. That being said, the only thing I think Rogue should have is Super Strength for a few clicks then to steal energy, other then that, I think they made her versions very well.
#3) Blade: Blade should have been a little tougher for a guy that can kill dozens upon dozens of vampires with great ease. Have you seen the stats of those vampires?!?:eek: Blade seems overmatched by those cheap b/c/f'ers / regen flunkies. He should have the steal energy ability after his b/c/f and then regeneration on his last click or a few clicks. We have seen him drink blood and heal himself. He should also have a couple extra clicks of life too, one good shot and he is done!
These are my top 3 picks for a revised set, any other suggestions?
mylo1wagner
02/10/2003, 18:58
Spiderman: Needs to be more playable and have supersenses.
Daredevil: Yea, I know they are re-doing him allready; but he had better have leap/climb. The man without fear takes the stairs???
CCcenter_stage
02/10/2003, 19:11
I agree that some figs that have come out over the term so far will need to be updated and fixed up (as new powers are introduced through the future expansions). This I have no problem with... maybe change a figure every third expansion or so. Just enough time for people to get really used to the way a character is, and then toss a curve ball out, sending a new improved- better than ever version. Great. O.K.
But within IC, CT, and the new X, we are "blessed" with three versions of hulk (given that these three are different personalities of the hulk, so i'll let this one slide....but not far), three of wolverine (x men version, skivies version, and weapon X version is pushing it), and four of spiderman (this is where I draw the line).......
come on.....
I know this issue has been beaten to death, but I thought I should add it one last time.
O.K., so here's my vision of the future:
1) Thanos - Yea, I know he is a powerhouse and that the numbers he has are incredibly hard to beat, but this is Thanos -the guy who took on the entire marvel universe! I believe that his dial is in great need of a super power overhaul. All he has is invunerability... He has much more than invunerability.
2) Magneto - ditto with what was said above from strikeforce.
3) Quicksilver - one word: hypersonic
4) Hobgoblin - For an arch enemy, he's pretty sad! He has nothing! Inside the comics, he is at least a contender against spiderman. In this game, he's a paperweight.
....and that's my two cents.
Prof. X - need I really say more? "Most Powerful Telepath in the World".... um.. no. White queen is twice as useful. You pay about 10 or 20 extra points for psychic blast, supersenses, and more movement. White Queen is equal in points to Prof. X + a taxi. Plus, she doesn't have the dumb X-men power to waste points on. I want a Prof X. with 0 damage the whole way down, psychic blast, incapacitate, and most importantly mind control with a 20 attack and 20 range. I don't care if his movement is 0, just as long as he can do his job.
Mongoose
02/10/2003, 19:19
I actually totally agree with you guys. Everyone that you stated needs a serious overhaul (thank goodness someone agrees w/ me about Magneto). I also think that Juggernaut should have 2 clicks of charge, and possibly 1 more click of 4 damage (He isn't quite as strong as Thor, but pretty close). Mayhaps they could make a stronger version of Thor (He wore a belt to amplify his strength). What would be a cool character would be Kurse.
Teams -
Masters of Evil: it's such a sad waste of points. It has never, ever, ever been used by anyone. Ever. If two adjacent members could use ranged attacks on the same target for one action, then it would be used.
X-Men: This is only useful if you have Wolverine on your team to heal off the damage you give to him. Or you can pawn it off on Wolfsbane in order for her to run to a medic.
Fantastic Four: Even more useless than X-men. Reason A - How often do you field more than one member? Reason B - The most that it will do in a game is maybe 4 or 5 clix of heath. WOW!*sacasticly*
Sinister Syndicate : This could be really useful. Batman Enemy is really good in DC; namely because of Bane. Marvel doesn't have Bane; therefore this ability is a point-costing bane.
Defenders: There are two people with this ability (Hulk E and Dr. Strange E). So those two can share a common defense. Umm.. can you say pointless. Good job.
Shield: Yes, you heard me correctly. With the advent of perplex, wasting an action on this ability is pointless. A Doc Ock can sit in middle of the board, and perplex all of my figures for free. No B2B. No "move-but-don't" action required.
Marshal Law
02/10/2003, 19:50
Originally posted by Badges2
Shield: Yes, you heard me correctly. With the advent of perplex, wasting an action on this ability is pointless. A Doc Ock can sit in middle of the board, and perplex all of my figures for free. No B2B. No "move-but-don't" action required.
Two words for you - Explosion and RCE. Perplex doesn't help with either, S.H.I.E.L.D. does. Explosion and S.H.I.E.L.D. is a potent combination in anyone's book.
If that isn't enough, multiple target attacks work the same way - S.H.I.E.L.D. pumps them, Perplex doesn't.
If that isn't enough, add Pulse Wave to the mix (yeah, you nail your S.H.I.E.L.D. dude - tough being an agent sometimes).
Mongoose
02/10/2003, 19:50
Shield: Yes, you heard me correctly. With the advent of perplex, wasting an action on this ability is pointless. A Doc Ock can sit in middle of the board, and perplex all of my figures for free. No B2B. No "move-but-don't" action required.
Perplex only works on one character per turn, and if that character is healed or damaged it doesn't count. Also note that you can use the Shield team ability to boost beyond 1 extra point of damage. Say that you have a 500 point game. Use the shield team ability to add 4 clicks of damage to a character. That is alot more then perplex.
Originally posted by Badges2
Shield: Yes, you heard me correctly. With the advent of perplex, wasting an action on this ability is pointless. A Doc Ock can sit in middle of the board, and perplex all of my figures for free. No B2B. No "move-but-don't" action required.
Okay. Everyone was right. EE, RCE, etc. You are correct. But in 100, 200, and some 300 pt games, I can't afford to add that token to a SHIELD. I'll withdraw my complaint. SHIELD is really good in some situations, but just decent in others.
TMcontender
02/10/2003, 20:03
I have to disagree with what was said earlier about the Masters of Evil ability. I have used the Masters of Evil ability before. Just put four veteran whirlwinds on a team and you can use the MoE quite easily and effectively in a 300 point game. Of course, it's kind of sad when this is one of the only combos when it comes in handy.
Neato-Magneto
02/10/2003, 20:29
I agree that Magneto definitly needs an overhaul.
I think that the first click should be 18 with Energy shield def, followed by 17, 16, 15, defense with invuln. And I agree that he should have 2 shots with inc at the end. Right now he is near useless at the end.
oh, and the x men team ability is useful to pump wolfsbanes and give rogue damage, she can gain it right back.
Wyldstaar
02/10/2003, 21:05
Originally posted by Badges2
I want a Prof X. with 0 damage the whole way down, psychic blast, incapacitate, and most importantly mind control with a 20 attack and 20 range. I don't care if his movement is 0, just as long as he can do his job.
What good is Psychic Blast if the damage is zero? That doesn't make any sense, man.
ludd_gang
02/10/2003, 22:01
Originally posted by Badges2
Teams -
Masters of Evil: it's such a sad waste of points. It has never, ever, ever been used by anyone. Ever. If two adjacent members could use ranged attacks on the same target for one action, then it would be used.
****Works good on my E Black Cat/V Spiderman Team. Cat gets Spidey's AV and DV via SS and JSA/Defenders, taxi the duo for a 4th action in 300 pt game. But your right, problem is most of the MOE joes are ranged combatants without flight (Kang!).*****
X-Men: This is only useful if you have Wolverine on your team to heal off the damage you give to him. Or you can pawn it off on Wolfsbane in order for her to run to a medic.
****This can be useful during the endgame. Also works pretty well with Rogue's steal energy.****
Fantastic Four: Even more useless than X-men. Reason A - How often do you field more than one member? Reason B - The most that it will do in a game is maybe 4 or 5 clix of heath. WOW!*sacasticly*
****Problem is the limited pool of FF figs. Stacking a team full of FF would be handy, but there just aren't that many good FF.****
Sinister Syndicate : This could be really useful. Batman Enemy is really good in DC; namely because of Bane. Marvel doesn't have Bane; therefore this ability is a point-costing bane.
****Marvel has V Bullseye and Wildcards.*****
Defenders: There are two people with this ability (Hulk E and Dr. Strange E). So those two can share a common defense. Umm.. can you say pointless. Good job.
****Wildcards, dude. *****
Shield: Yes, you heard me correctly. With the advent of perplex, wasting an action on this ability is pointless. A Doc Ock can sit in middle of the board, and perplex all of my figures for free. No B2B. No "move-but-don't" action required.
***Enhancement will also shake up the game, IMO. So yes, this ability isn't the powerhouse it was, but it will always give you usable options. ****
Like all team abilities and powers, some will increase in power as the fig pool deepens, others will wane. Very few are totally useless, they're just untapped....
Originally posted by Badges2
Okay. Everyone was right. EE, RCE, etc. You are correct. But in 100, 200, and some 300 pt games, I can't afford to add that token to a SHIELD. I'll withdraw my complaint. SHIELD is really good in some situations, but just decent in others.
For 11 additional points of Shield, I had a Thor who did 5 clicks of range damage and smeared Annihulus and Blastaar in the tourney you and I played in Saturday. I never got hit. It can be good if used correctly.
mrtomsmith
02/10/2003, 22:38
Going back to the original topic:
Hawkeye. Even ignoring the damage, his attack value is a travesty.
Kang. He should be scary. He's not.
Captain America. Should be more impressive, both on attack and defense. And a resculpt would be nice, too.
Mr. Fantastic. Should *really* start with Outwit, and keep it forever.
And then there are the figures they should weaken to make them more in-character, but I don't know if a re-issue would solve it: Bane, Black Panther, Doc Ock (perplex?), Jean Grey (support?), Blaastar, Flash (outwit?)
(On the other hand, they really got a lot of figs right the first time - Doom, Thor, Vampire Lackey, Pyro, Hulk, Scarlet Witch, Cyclops, Grundy, Darkseid, etc.)
They should make SUPER TEAM abilities that you can only use if ALL the members of your force are of the same team.
Shield: Free leadership roll every turn.
Hydra: All your breakaway rolls are successful
Masters of Evil: You go first
XMen: All Xmen get +1 defense
Avengers: All Avengers get +1 movement
Skrull: One free perplex per turn.
Brotherhood: Spiderman: All get +1 attack for Close combat
Minions of Doom: All have mastermind
FF: etc
I just came up with these from the top of my head and some may be overpowered but you get the gist. It would definitely add flavor and provide incentive to make a REAL teams which would be a cool bonus.
onew0rd
RavenProject
02/10/2003, 22:40
X-Men: This is only useful if you have Wolverine on your team to heal off the damage you give to him. Or you can pawn it off on Wolfsbane in order for her to run to a medic.
****This can be useful during the endgame. Also works pretty well with Rogue's steal energy.****
Jean Grey's V and LE versions have the Support ability. This leads to a simple setup...
1) Use Jean's Support.
2) Push Jean to heal again.
3) Exchange clicks with the next victim, bringing Jean up to full while the victim drops his Defense for an easier roll.
Repeat as needed.
There are some X-Men -- specifically Nightcrawler and White Queen -- whose defense stays fairly high late in their dial. If Jean Grey is your healer, for example, then the odds are against healing either one until their very last click. Their attack values, on the other hand, are useless far before that. If you want to keep them at a higher level, then you'll need to use the X-Men ability.
(By the way... if you're shifting clicks of damage so the new victim can run for a Medic, you don't want to use Wolfsbane -- her Defense is too high late in her dial. Shift the damage to Magneto or Rogue; their movement is still high late in their dial, they can fly for maximum mobility, and their Defense is so low that it's an easy heal.)
One final note... you can exchange that click of damage whenever two X-Men are adjacent, regardless of who else may be adjacent. This can make a huge difference when you're in the middle of a close-in brawl and you want to keep Wolverine in the fray juts a little longer.
-J
Thunderbolts
02/10/2003, 23:56
Figs that need a revamp:
Juggernaut: The man who can't be stopped doesn't even have Charge, yet now they're giving it out like candy (Toad??!?). If ever they wanted to debut the dreaded Impervious, now would be the time. I doubt he'd cost much more than his current V (look at Doomsday who is somewhat similar). I could live with a slight drop in Juggy's attack stat to compensate for some Charge (he's a better fighter than Cap? Whuh? He's supposed to rarely hit, but if he does you die)
Hawkeye: Not good enough. He's Earth's Mightiest Marksman, his stats need to represent that. He already costs more than Bullseye, why not go the extra mile and give him 11 attack?
Kang: Rubbish as is. Though is they changed the Pulse Wave rules to do damage listed on the dial, he would rock.
Magneto: Needs a new version that is more expensive but a real monster.
Professor X, Jean Grey - take advantage of the new psychic abilities (though I suspect Pheonix in Xplosion does this).
GroovyBoy
02/11/2003, 00:05
The 185-point Thanos is not supposed to be the Thanos+Infinity Gauntlet that challenged the entire Marvel Universe. It's Thanos alone, no gems. There's a slight difference.
As for every other character that was done wrong (apparently that means all but roughly 25 of them, and sooner or later we'll get a correct version of Spiderman, Wolverine and Electra anyway), consider game mechanics. You know, things like balance and cost. Yeah, Magneto has taken on combinations of teams before and almost killed them all. Sure, Doomsday killed Superman, and Superman is the strongest most powerful superhero ever, right? Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... But the abilities of comic book characters fluctuate with different writers and their story needs. If WizKids made the 'ultimate' version of all these figures, they'd cost a whole lotta points. No problem, you say. Raise the build totals to 400 and 600 points. Okay, but what about all the run o' the mill characters? Now they are totally useless when facing these titans.
Admittedly, there are some arguments with validity. Maybe Quicksilver should have Hypsersonic Speed (personally, I think he should just have Flurry down the dial as I don't think he's up to par with the Flash, but I am not the end-all of HeroClix and comics). The Xplosion version of Spiderman is correcting the Super Senses issue. But you can't give a character every single power from the PAC because each slot can only have one power and you don't want one figure to fill a niche completely (although Black Cat owns the PC market as far as I'm concerned). Somebody wants a Professor X that does everything plus windows...okay, but don't start #####ing when it costs even more than Kang.
Just want to address that comment about Xavier.
Xavier was done correctly, 20 attack and 20 range? Come on! That is a bit much. Xavier, as of right now is HANDS DOWN the best Mind Controller in Marvel, as he should be. 10 range and 11 attack for his vet is higher than anyone else right now. Xavier is a 1 trick pony (plus leadership and a tiny bit of defend...but guys in wheelchairs aren't the best at defending people ;) ).
Are White Queen and Moondragon more useful? YES! This is because they are not 1 trick ponies. Xavier does not need incapacitate, mind control is sufficent (and better). PB makes no sense if he's not doing damage (since impervious isn't big in Marvel).
His attack and range is about what I would expect...12 attack tops for him. As for #####ing about the X-men team ability...he is the founder/leader of the X-men...of course he has their team ability.
The only superpower I would even consider is Supersenses, but even that isn't totally necessary.
Now...while we are on the subject of X-men...Jean is the one who got ripped off. She is little more than a glorified mandroid armor. I would have liked to see some of her telepathy represented be it as a single click of MC (since she doesn't like controlling others), or even Defend or Enchancement to simulate her telpathic communication with her team.
Mongoose
02/11/2003, 02:33
The 185-point Thanos is not supposed to be the Thanos+Infinity Gauntlet that challenged the entire Marvel Universe. It's Thanos alone, no gems. There's a slight difference
Yeah I can see that. Even at 185 points Thanos is formidable against alot of opponents. I could whine and moan about him not having Superstrength, but then blasting away at 10 spaces is alot easier then coming up close w/ an object. Magneto did get screwed though. I don't care what anybody says. I have atleast 10 comics with him in them, and the guy is outright a 1 man army (Note that Magneto really isn't a good leader, he just scares his opposing forces morale.* Like the Acolytes could scare anybody*).
trutildeth
02/11/2003, 04:05
Originally posted by Badges2
Teams -
Masters of Evil: it's such a sad waste of points. It has never, ever, ever been used by anyone. Ever. If two adjacent members could use ranged attacks on the same target for one action, then it would be used.
In the final round of my tournament this weekend, I comboed V-Whirlwind and Spiral (mimicking) and a V- Doombot (mimicking) to kill an E- Ultron in one turn. 5 total attacks for 10 clicks of damage. The potential damage dealt could have been something like 19 clicks dealt.
As far as remaking old figures lets start with one of the best, Captain America, they made his veteran weaker than veteran Batman. Not taking anything away from Bats but the Captain has survived WW2, Thanos, Dr Doom(Secret Wars) Onslaught, he needs a movement of 10 attack of 11 defense of 18 with enegry deflection command on his first two clicks then gaining outwit.
Antoher figure that needs to be redone is Thanos, yeah great invulnerability and strong big deal, this is the character that was going to end it all cause he was in love with Death. But instead they make V Dr Doom have the abilities that Thanos should have.
Juggernaut, all in all i think they did a decent job on him, except him losing invulnrability, How come Swamp Thing lasts longer than Juggernaut, we're talkin bout the guy that was thrown through the sun, came out the other side and all he said was "boy that was kinda hot" he doesnt breathe or eat or sleep.
Quicksilver, as much as i like him he shouldnt have higher movement than the Flash, the fight has happened a few times, Flash wins hands down always.
Nick Fury, they made him a glorified sheild agent, once again another human that has taken on war and godlike charatcers with a gun and triumphed, ranged combat expert, toughness, running shot and energy explosion.
PsychoDBoy
02/11/2003, 05:03
About the team abilities brought up: I have 2 very crucial undefeated teams, one being the Sinister Syndicate, and the other being SHIELD. Syndicate wise, Bullseyes 11 attack being shared to Boomerangs 2 energy explosions is great. And doc oc can run around the board, an give his 10 attack to whirlwind when I have vulture drop him to beat the #### outta people. And shield? Well, without it, Clay Quartermain couldn't have done 14 clix of damage with one attack in a game I played with them recently. 2 of my favorite teams, 2 great team abilities.
CCcenter_stage
02/11/2003, 22:04
thanks USAgent for backing me up on my thanos arguement. My point was not that he should be the guy with the gauntlet, cause that would be insane (he would cost 400 points alone). What I meant, based on his abilities, was that he deserves more than the single power of invunerability. Given, he's got great stats, but he deserves more. I agree that Doom V got the stuff that Thanos should have, except for mastermind. Thanos would never use mastermind. He'd just let the blast/punch bounce off of him, laugh, and smugly squish the opponent...
I also would like to add thanks to USAgent for backing me up on a few other charcters that I pointed out (EG: quicksilver).
As to juggy: I admit, he does need to be touched up, and adding the feared impervious would fit him like a glove, but there are a few other characters that need to be revamped before him (*Cough*MAGNETO*Cough*).
Another charcter that could probably be touched up is vulture. Yea, he's an old fart, yea he's a cheap taxi, and yea he's cannon fodder... but I think that he could use charge. Again, there are more derving characters that derve the revamp (magneto), before any action should be taken on this guy...
dolemite199
02/11/2003, 22:39
This is an interesting thread. One thing that Wizkids must address when making sets is the scalability of the figures in the set. If they made every figure the way we want them to, we would be unable to play at least half of them on a team in a point based game system such as Hero Clix. This is the reason why we have so called lame figs, i.e. puppet master, controller, mad hatter, toad, and skrull commandos placed in each of the sets. There must be weaker figures included in sets to balance the stronger figures. However, this is not a reason to tone down a figure, or design him ineffeciently for the purposes of points/game balance. By no means am I advocating that there should be no limitations on figure design, but Wizkids seems to take a very conservative approach to Hero Clix design. Or they just completely ignore any type of playtesting data to decide if a figure or team ability is under/overcosted. That being said, I would like to see a few figure revamps.
#1. Magneto: Good start. The problem is that his attack value and damage vaules fall to fast. He could stand to have an 11 AV to start then decrease from there. I have seem some of the posters on this thread mention invulnerability. Magento does not need invulnerability. It does not even make sense from a comics perspective. However, He could use the defend super power. A few clicks of that with his high defense, then changing to energyshield/deflect to represent his force fields. Another problem with Magneto is that his telekenisis is somewhat wasted on moving characters because he can fly 9 squares to start, and for free I might add. The most one could get out of a traditional TK attack is an extra click due to a heavy object. But it would be better for him to carry a high dmg value throughout his dial because you can only play with six objects in a two player game. Couple that with the fact that your opponent mught have a SS char who is using them left and right and you suddenly have very little ammunition to TK at people.
#2. Kang: I cannot express in words how dissatisfied I am with this figure. He is the ruler of Limbo. He has the power to instantly travel to any point in time and dimension. He should have phasing on every single one of his clicks, instead of just his first two. He should also retain his high defense for a few more clicks. His RCE and incapacitate are excellent. The pulse wave super power is somewhat wasted on his clicks with 2 dmg and RCE. He also is a victim of the MOE team ability which jacks up the cost in return for an extremely situational team ability.
Um... actually, IMMORTUS was the ruler of Limbo, and was everything you just cited.
Admittedly, Immortus was an alternate future Kang, but Immortus was also considerably smarter and subtler than Kang was...
Although Kang could certainly use some overhauling...
dolemite199
02/12/2003, 02:53
We cannot forget Kangs other incarnations.
The Scarlet Centurion and Rama-tut
Having a charater that is not restricted to time or dimensions can really be confusing to read about in comics. But he has my vote as one of the coolest villians.
Heck, this thread applies to most figures in the game. However, I'll add my 2 cents.......
Juggernaut- Needs more 4 Damage on his dial. I'm sorry, he should NOT get charge; that's NOT what he does. He basically WALKS to his opponents and stomps on them.
Magneto- For the most powerful mutant on Earth, his stats are pretty sad.
Captain America- Definitely needs work.
Thor- He's Marvel's most powerful hero and has more experience than virtually all the heroes on Earth COMBINED, yet the Hulk gets a 5 Damage but not Thor??? Thanos gets a 15 Attack but not Thor?????
Mongoose
02/12/2003, 03:07
Magento does not need invulnerability. It does not even make sense from a comics perspective.
That actually couldn't be any further from the truth. I have a comic where he envelopes himself, Professor X, and Moira McTaggert into space with him in a house!!!!! I have also seen him get attacked by Cyclops to have his shield repel an attack. That is why when the X-Men go against him they break down his shield. Obviously his shield breaks down faster then Juggernauts armor, but it does suck up damage. I mean the vacuum of space, cyclops forceblast. That shield does exist.
Veggiehater
02/12/2003, 03:11
Originally posted by onew0rd
They should make SUPER TEAM abilities that you can only use if ALL the members of your force are of the same team.
<snip>
I just came up with these from the top of my head and some may be overpowered but you get the gist. It would definitely add flavor and provide incentive to make a REAL teams which would be a cool bonus.
onew0rd
Onew0rd,
I agree it would be great to see Wizkids implement something like this.This would indeed add another interesting level to team building!
:)
VH
mwindu965
02/12/2003, 03:31
Not that theres anything wrong with the Avengers as it is, but a few of its members could use a change....my thoughts -
Captain America - For a living legend, Cap just doesnt measure up. I think at the very least, he deserves to do 3 damage the first 1-2 clicks of his dial, or give him CCE mid-dail. I think thats the main problem with him....hes not too huge on offense, and hes too expensive for just another Leadership piece. Maybe even 2 arrows for range to represent how his shield can take out multiple targets by ricocheting off opponents too...
Vision - I think of all the people that deserve Imperviousness, Vision is near the top of my list. He can have attacks phase through him, and if the attack hits, the armor kicks in.
Black Widow - If I really needed Incapacitate that badly, Id use Wasp. Since I already use her in most of my teams, this makes Widow next to useless. Give her 2 damage, or anything, just a reason to use her.
Hawkeye - I think this subject has been discussed a bit before, but Hawkeye is pretty good, my only gripe with him is his 9 attack. Currently, he is a master marksman who misses quite alot.
All the other Avengers are pretty dandy....but Id just like to see some improvement where noted, especially Cap.
Just some thoughts...
MWindu965
Say "What" Again...
The problem with giving Juggy impervious is that there are some powers that it doesn't work against (Poison and others). I think I prefer the slightly weaker but more consistent Invulnerability over Impervious.
jolt
mwindu...I agree with the cap assessment. What he needs is 3 bolts, 2 damage is fine because I have never seen him hurt anyone with Invuln. What they should have done is give him MUCH HIGHER stats. Like a 12 attack and 18 defense. Cap should rarely miss and should rarely get hit. The rest could stay as is but make him have some willpower. Same goes for DD who should have had a higher attack. The whole 9-10 attack thing is dumb.
Spiderman: Supersenses (Obviously)
Red Skull, Nightcrawler, Nick Fury: Why are these guys Unique?
Firelord: Cost like 30 more per version at least or a unique (the veteran) costing about 130-140. How much has FL ever changed in the comics the warrant a REV? Can anyone answer this? The scary thing is that if this guy cost 130 points, he'd still be relatively playable.
UltraMANOS
02/12/2003, 12:17
I absolutely agree with the figures previously mentioned needing an overhaul on powers, the only thing I may question is the point cost. What I mean is, how come alot of abilities and figures cost alot more than those figures seen in mage night, I know some figures in mage knight would mop the map with some of the overcosted heroclix figures.What I don't understand is why?, why is it that there are cheaper figures in magenight that are on par with either of the heroclix expansions. how do they give a point value on a figure
PaxZRake
02/12/2003, 12:36
Originally posted by Vegeta1
Thor- He's Marvel's most powerful hero and has more experience than virtually all the heroes on Earth COMBINED, yet the Hulk gets a 5 Damage but not Thor??? Thanos gets a 15 Attack but not Thor?????
The Hulk is stronger than Thor, that's why. Thanos is far better than Thor and that's why. Thor doesn't stand a chance against Thanos on his own. Thor also couldn't lift more than an enraged Hulk. I miss your point, Thor's current clix is wonderful.
Kirsarge
02/12/2003, 12:37
We can all think of things to change with fugures, but I would much rather see some subtle changes to rules:
1) Fliers can't carry fliers (been argued to death, but the idea of Yellowjacket taxi-ing Thor just makes me cringe every time I see it.)
2) Medics actually heal. Instead of a roll of 1 or 2 resulting in no healing, go the other way, and have rolls of 5 or 6 result in four clicks of healing. Or something. As it stands now, this is the only power that requires two successful rolls to be effective (to hit and to heal).
Just my opinion, based on frustration.
"The Hulk is stronger than Thor, that's why."
Uh, no.
That has YET to be proven (go read Defenders #10). Also, Thor does MORE damage with his hammer than Hulk can do with his fist (Thor #385) and it's been officially stated that Thor is indeed more powerful than the Hulk (Hulk 2001).
"Thanos is far better than Thor and that's why. Thor doesn't stand a chance against Thanos on his own."
Uh, no. Thanos has NEVER defeated the Thor in combat. And Thor has MORE experience in battle than Thanos.
"Thor also couldn't lift more than an enraged Hulk."
Again, uh, no.
"I miss your point, Thor's current clix is wonderful."
I'll say it again, Thor- He's Marvel's most powerful hero and has more experience than virtually all the heroes on Earth COMBINED, yet the Hulk gets a 5 Damage but not Thor??? Thanos gets a 15 Attack but not Thor?????
The Sandman
02/12/2003, 13:08
Vegeta1, not to get in a war with you, because I am definately not trying to, but... I have been reading comics for 25 years and even if I have missed 1 issue that 1 writer decides to make a statement that Thor is actually stronger than Hulk or more powerful than Thanos, all past history does not bear those statements. An enraged Hulk has always been stronger than Thor and Thanos has always been more than Thor could deal with by himself except in rare occasions. Now maybe Thor could best him in an arm wrestling competition (especially because he usually tries to avoid physical encounters with heroes that are close to being as strong as he), but in standard fights, Thanos always has a little something more to bring to the party, which is why he is such a great villain. IMO they got Thanos and Thor correctly set in Clix.
Side note, It seems to me that even before Thor getting Odin's power (would love to see an Odin clix - 300 points) that the writers have slowly been tweaking his power up and up over the last 4-5 years. He has always been powerful, but he's definately been on the rise.
deal wit' this
02/12/2003, 13:25
Ya Thor is cool, but this is the same character that got his arm broken by some Marauder, and would have been killed if the nearly dead Angel hadn't bought him the time to recover. Don't get me wrong, Thor rocks. I have even strated picking up his comic. His powers ARE godly, but many of you seem to want them to be ungodly. Thor is insanely powerful (as is represented in his Kilck) but there are many super heros and villians, cosmic and otherwise, who can go toe to toe with him. A few of them (very few) could even win. I think his clik was made fine. Except for the paint job ofcourse
The Sandman
02/12/2003, 14:28
Amen deal wit' this, amen.
"Vegeta1, not to get in a war with you, because I am definately not trying to,"
Fair enough. I have no problem with intelligent, stimulating conversation. ;)
"but... I have been reading comics for 25 years"
I've got you by 5 years. ;)
"and even if I have missed 1 issue that 1 writer decides to make a statement that Thor is actually stronger than Hulk or more powerful than Thanos, all past history does not bear those statements."
Thor #385 (among others) has Thor beating the Hulk so bad that Hulk REFUSED to fight him and hid behind a female hostage.
"An enraged Hulk has always been stronger than Thor"
Uh, no. There's NO COMIC that has ever shown this.
"and Thanos has always been more than Thor could deal with by himself except in rare occasions."
Where are you getting this stuff? Thanos has NEVER defeated Thor in combat.
"Now maybe Thor could best him in an arm wrestling competition (especially because he usually tries to avoid physical encounters with heroes that are close to being as strong as he), but in standard fights, Thanos always has a little something more to bring to the party, which is why he is such a great villain. IMO they got Thanos and Thor correctly set in Clix."
Again, my opinion based on the comics (especially Hulk 2001) is that if Hulk has a 5 Damage, Thor should have it as well.
"Ya Thor is cool, but this is the same character that got his arm broken by some Marauder"
And Hulk got knocked out by a snake. Your point?
TheYanger
02/12/2003, 14:45
They need to leave room for if they make a unique of the current king thor too.
Thor right now is a huge bad@ss. I'd say he'd be darn near unstoppable if he could use his powers to their potential all the time.
Mongoose
02/12/2003, 14:51
The Hulk is stronger than Thor, that's why. Thanos is far better than Thor and that's why. Thor doesn't stand a chance against Thanos on his own. Thor also couldn't lift more than an enraged Hulk. I miss your point, Thor's current clix is wonderful.
I agree with you wholeheartedly, unfortunately some people here think that Thor hasn't lost in comics, when he has. I could've sworn that Thanos knocked Thor out when Thor went mad. Thor is not as strong as an enraged Hulk. Maybe he is with his belt, but naturally. Heck No!!!!!!!!! Of course it aids him to have a class 3000 hammer. Ah Duh! :p
mrmister22
02/12/2003, 14:52
I agree with a lot of things said on here and there is a lot that I can say, but the one thing that got me to post was the comments on the Fantastic Four.
While there may only be 4 (6) members of the team, my Doombot Squad benefits from the mimicked power....Black Cat too, and anyone with a wild card team power. Nothing better or more ironic than a squad of Doombots getting stronger by a member of the Fantastic Four dying.
Thor is fine. I'm with everyone that says that 5 damage should be reserved for a fully hulked up Hulk. He is cool and the essence of Comic book Thor was captured about as good as can be asked (In power level and powers) How Bane deals more damage than Thor...now THAT's some major BS. As for Thanos...he got gypped. Not in his damage and whatnot but should have had some form of trickery...Perplex, Outwit, somethin. I'm not one of the jabronis who thinks every character under the sun should have outwit or perplex. But if anyone has either, how can Thanos not? He swindled a bunch of Cosmic level characters and got the better of all. He sweet talked his way from death for crying out loud!!! He figured out a way to kill 1/3 of the universe!!! The guy is a pure outwitter with some beatings to back them up. Wasn't getting the gauntlet the greatest use of outwit in the history of comics???? Boggles the mind.
jay_of_titan
02/12/2003, 15:58
"Uh, no. Thanos has NEVER defeated the Thor in combat. And Thor has MORE experience in battle than Thanos."
-When Thor went mad and Pip the Troll dropped him off with Thanos, Thor with the Power Gem, could not take down Thanos. Thanos get tired of having his house trashed like a Frat-house party and encases Thor in a block of pure force. Then Thanos and the Infinity Watch travel to Asgard where Thanos hands half of Asgard their a** before mixing it up with Odin. The two of them fight to a stand still before they stop trashing Asgard. (Bood and Thunder crossover)
Thor is fine. Probally the best comic to clix.
Thanos did get the shaft. Tack on 20 points, keep most of his stats, but give him Dr. Doom's powers(except Invulnerability & Toughness). onew0rd was right, Thanos duped the Elders of the Universe-he beat the GameMaster (Death lost to him) he should have Outwit & Perplex (not at same time) for most of his dial. Besides that Thanos never falls for the same trick twice- he is the consumate schemer.
Magneto also was a little under-done. For a guy that single-handedly fights the FF, Xmen & Avenger (not at same time) he is kinda weak. Add 40 points, beef up his numbers, add battle fury, energy explosion-maybe another lightning bolt, and barrier or Pulsewave(yes it sucks, but in the end or if it ignores defensive abilities ei.Invulnerability)
BlackWidow's vetran should be Sheild.
Skrull Team ability & shape change suck big time. Don't get me wrong, I love the skrulls, all of them (if anyone has Raskor or the CT LE skrull for trade-PM me) and who doesn't, but a 6 and then you can attack somone else or pass??? The action should be wasted or make it 5 or 6 dice roll. Even better, since they hide and blend in, have it be the same as Batman team ability. Plus SuperSkrull could use more beef, c'mon the entire FF-Fights the Silver Surfer...
"I could've sworn that Thanos knocked Thor out when Thor went mad."
Nope. Thanos left the fight.
"Thor is not as strong as an enraged Hulk."
Yes, he is. Why do you make these erroneous statements? I've already given comic issues which prove my point.
"Thor is fine. I'm with everyone that says that 5 damage should be reserved for a fully hulked up Hulk. He is cool and the essence of Comic book Thor was captured about as good as can be asked (In power level and powers)"
*sigh* Hoo-kay, I'll keep stating this since people refuse to acknowledge this.....
Thor has proven in battle and it has been officially stated he is MORE POWERFUL than the Hulk (Thor #385 and Hulk Ann 2001). He is Marvel's heaviest hitter.
Since this is the case, it makes sense that Thor should have at LEAST a 5 Damage if The Hulk has it.
"When Thor went mad and Pip the Troll dropped him off with Thanos, Thor with the Power Gem, could not take down Thanos."
Actually, the more ACCURATE statement would be that since Thanos realized he could NOT overcome Thor, ESPECIALLY with a Power Gem, the fight was inconclusive and Thanos himself LEFT the battle and used an experimental weapon on Thor.
"Then Thanos and the Infinity Watch travel to Asgard where Thanos hands half of Asgard their a** before mixing it up with Odin. The two of them fight to a stand still before they stop trashing Asgard. (Bood and Thunder crossover)"
Actually, Thanos was getting his butt handed to him by Odin. There wasn't a single blow by Thanos which threatened Odin in the slightest.
"Thor is fine."
He'd be better if he had a 5 Damage like Hulk, since he's more powerful. It would be more accurate of the character in terms of power.
"Probally the best comic to clix."
That would be OWAW Superman.
The Sandman
02/13/2003, 11:02
Vegeta1, I don't think we will ever convince each other, because I am very certain in my belief from everything I have ever read that Thor without his hammer cannot stand toe to toe with the Hulk, at least not for long, especially with an enraged Hulk. For every example you throw out about how it states somewhere that Thor is stronger, we can throw out an example of Hulk holding up a mountain, etc. Ignoring those, I think the general idea has always been Hulk is stronger, if not, then a match up of Hulk vs Avengers with Thor on team is not a big deal. If Thor is stronger, a better fighter, and has Mjööllnir, then it's a cake walk and we know that this isn't the case.
I think we will have to agree to disagree, I believe his Clix is an excellent representation of him, you do not and can cite examples which I really can't dispute, only Marvel Comics in general can actually say (individual writers would not be a good reference since as we have favorites so do they). Anyway, happy gaming. I hope they eventually come out with some other Asgardians (Baldur, Sif, and especially Loki).
"Vegeta1, I don't think we will ever convince each other, because I am very certain in my belief"
Hey, you're more than entitled to your opinion. That's what makes America so great. :)
"from everything I have ever read that Thor without his hammer cannot stand toe to toe with the Hulk, at least not for long, especially with an enraged Hulk."
What have you read? They only fought twice without the hammer (Thor #112 and #385). THe Hulk has a healing factor, so he has an advantage if they simply fought blow for blow (without hammer). However, as shown n Thor #112, Thor is much faster and a far better fighter than Hulk. All he has to do is wear him down.
"For every example you throw out about how it states somewhere that Thor is stronger,"
I said more poweful (Hulk Ann 2001); there's a difference.
"we can throw out an example of Hulk holding up a mountain, etc."
Why? Thor has done awesome feats of strength a well.
"Ignoring those, I think the general idea has always been Hulk is stronger,"
Stan Lee, the CREATOR of the character says otherwise.
"if not, then a match up of Hulk vs Avengers with Thor on team is not a big deal."
It's not. Thor has ALWAYS been able to handle the Hulk alone.
"If Thor is stronger, a better fighter, and has Mjööllnir, then it's a cake walk and we know that this isn't the case."
Only because Thor holds back when fighting the Hulk (Hulk #440).
"I think we will have to agree to disagree,"
Again, you're entitled to your opinion, although I have no idea WHY you believe the way you do, especially since I've brought evidence and written verification showing Thor to be the more powerful of the two.
"I believe his Clix is an excellent representation of him, you do not and can cite examples which I really can't dispute, only Marvel Comics in general can actually say (individual writers would not be a good reference since as we have favorites so do they). Anyway, happy gaming."
Hey, man, you too. I enjoyed our conversation.
"I hope they eventually come out with some other Asgardians (Baldur, Sif, and especially Loki)."
I doubt it, they're not popular enough. Although, I'd LOVE to see a Warrior Madness Thor.
Mongoose
02/13/2003, 14:44
Only because Thor holds back when fighting the Hulk (Hulk #440).
Dude are you for real? He holds himself back. I hope some other members see this. Stop sleeping with your Thor figure underneathe your pillow case, and don't make me report you to Goku. We all know he woops Vegeta everytime. :)
hoffmandu
02/13/2003, 16:01
Thor is not stronger than the hulk...end of story. In the original secret wars, The Incredible Hulk held up on his shoulders, not a single mountain, but an entire mountain range ( that #### molecule man) The Very Generic and Utterly Lame Thor aint got nadda on THAT!
discombobulous
02/13/2003, 16:34
As far as the Thor vs. Hulk argument goes and how it translates to clix, here's my two cents. Being that I havne't read any of the comics in question I'll use a 1-on-1 battle in Heroclix to see what happens.
Vet-Thor against Vet-Hulk
While I understand the desire for Thor getting 5 damage, in this fight he doesn't need it. See, I'm not talking about a base2base beatdown. I mean moving across the map & whupping some ###! Just watch, Hulk will fall in no time flat!
PantherPriest
02/13/2003, 16:45
why, praytell are we arguing over the improvements of a character who is already adequately represented?
mylo1wagner
02/13/2003, 17:14
You cannot find a more devout Thor fan than me. But although Thor can take Hulk in a fight, especially armed with Mjolnir. Hulk is "The Strongest there is!!!" I agree that Thor is a MONSTER on all three R/E/V versions. IF they do another Thor I want one with him WITHOUT his powers, when he teamed up with the Enchantress. There are many figures more in need of a re-do than THOR (paintjob and sculpt aside). heroclix Thor ROCKS the party!!!
The Sandman
02/13/2003, 17:34
Vegeta1,
When I say "from everything I have ever read..." I am not talking about 1 comic that has Thor vs Hulk. I mean in general, taking all Thor comics, all Hulk comics, common foes, statements made by writers, head honchos, etc.
Anyway, I have also enjoyed our "argument", I would guess that if it was face to face we would be pulling out comics that showed this or that, heads would be shaking in disbelief of the other's lack of comprehension, and ultimately we would still walk away unconvinced. Then of course we could then start arguing over who's stronger, Superman or Thor. heh, heh. Well, before I open that can of worms, happy gaming.
Hey, how about a Giant sized Destroyer armor (I believe that was the name) that Odin made. That could be the next big fig. Doubt it will ever happen, but hey.
mylo1wagner
02/13/2003, 17:37
The Destroyer only grew to huge size when invested with the Odin-Power to take on the Celestials. He lost.
The Sandman
02/13/2003, 17:50
True, but it still would be quite cool. In truth, they could easily come out with a Unique version, say about the size of Mr Fixit. Now who wouldn't love that? Ok, other than the people who don't have a clue who he is.
hoffmandu
02/13/2003, 17:56
I'm thinking....Tri-Sentinel, IG Thanos, or Cosmic Cube Red skull.
mylo1wagner
02/13/2003, 18:00
Galactus!!!! He should come in several power levels that when added to the point totals of one of his heralds would equal a 500 or 1000 point team. I can see it now, Firelord and Galactus take on the Avengers and the Fantastic Four.
Also neccesary for a Secret Wars game with four players (the X-men and Magneto, The Avengers and FF, Dr. Doom and his "minions", and Galactus (eater of worlds)).
The Sandman
02/13/2003, 18:00
With IG Thanos, or Cosmic Cube Red skull you run into the same problem about bringing a Galactus to clix, too freakin powerful.
I would be very happy with some incarnation of Giant Man, Goliath, etc.
Originally posted by Strikeforce
You know its going to happen, just look at Mage Knight Alpha, Beta for example. Wizkids is going to do it, lets just hope they do it right by remaking some original figures with a little more thought involved in them and their background (we have faith in your John :D ).
I would just like to clarify that MK Beta is nothing more than a re-print of MK Alpha. The paint jobs are slightly different and the figures have a beta symbol but no figure was added, removed or remade.
“Dude are you for real? He holds himself back. I hope some other members see this.”
Why not? It’s true; go read the book for yourself.
“Stop sleeping with your Thor figure underneathe your pillow case,”
So sayeth the Mongoose fan.
“Thor is not stronger than the hulk...end of story.”
Far from it since YOU don’t write the story.
“In the original secret wars, The Incredible Hulk held up on his shoulders, not a single mountain, but an entire mountain range ( that #### molecule man) The Very Generic and Utterly Lame Thor aint got nadda on THAT!”
Thor pulled up the ENTIRE Midgard Serpent from the planet, a feat which FAR outshines a mere mountain range.
“While I understand the desire for Thor getting 5 damage, in this fight he doesn't need it. See, I'm not talking about a base2base beatdown. I mean moving across the map & whupping some ###! Just watch, Hulk will fall in no time flat!”
I hear what you’re saying, dude, no doubt. I’m just saying that although Thor is GREAT in the game itself, the figure doesn’t accurately portray his power level correctly, since Thor is more powerful than the Hulk.
“why, praytell are we arguing over the improvements of a character who is already adequately represented?”
Tell that to the Hulk fans.
“You cannot find a more devout Thor fan than me.”
You just met him.
“But although Thor can take Hulk in a fight, especially armed with Mjolnir. Hulk is "The Strongest there is!!!"
*sigh* That has YET to be proven over Thor. Go read Defenders #10 for their contest of strength.
"Vegeta1,
When I say "from everything I have ever read..." I am not talking about 1 comic that has Thor vs Hulk. I mean in general, taking all Thor comics, all Hulk comics, common foes, statements made by writers, head honchos, etc."
Ok, and from what I've read, Thor tends to come out on top. He's defeated foes the Hulk cannot beat in battle.
"Anyway, I have also enjoyed our "argument", I would guess that if it was face to face we would be pulling out comics that showed this or that, heads would be shaking in disbelief of the other's lack of comprehension, and ultimately we would still walk away unconvinced."
Actually, I've been asking you for YOUR references, since I've given a few which show AND state Thor being the more powerful of the two (the CREATOR himself stated this). Heck, it stated in the Hulk's OWN book.
This is why I say Thor should get 5 Damage.
"Then of course we could then start arguing over who's stronger, Superman or Thor. heh, heh. Well, before I open that can of worms, happy gaming."
You too, my man.
Mongoose
02/13/2003, 22:30
“Stop sleeping with your Thor figure underneathe your pillow case,”
So sayeth the Mongoose fan.
It's not a crime to be a fan of some marvel characters. I just don't think that you look at all the issues in general. A closed mind is like a closed fist (I got that from a martial art movie :P ). Yes I love Mongoose, but I wouldn't say stuff like, "he has never been defeated". I analyze facts. Hulk pounded Thor w/o Mjolnir into bruised meat. He defeated him, plain and simple. I see people bringing up what if comics constantly, in reference to Thor vs. Warhulk. Heck I believe them. The two rivals are very close in power level, w/ a slight edge going to Thor w/ his class 3000 hammer. In hand to hand combat though, I do think that Hulk will win. For one, how can you miss with hands the size of a motorcycle helmet. I know that Thor is a better fighter, but as portrayed in the comics, Thor loses w/o Mjolnir. Heck if Thor didn't make Juggernaut lose his powers he might have lost that battle too.
"It's not a crime to be a fan of some marvel characters."
And it's no crime to give my opinion on why Thor should get a 5 Damage.
"I just don't think that you look at all the issues in general. A closed mind is like a closed fist (I got that from a martial art movie :P ). Yes I love Mongoose, but I wouldn't say stuff like, "he has never been defeated". I analyze facts. Hulk pounded Thor w/o Mjolnir into bruised meat. He defeated him, plain and simple."
You have a WEIRD sense of the word "defeated." If one guy is STILL willing to fight (Thor) while the other guy LEAVES the battle (Hulk) then I don't see how you can call yourself openmined and say Thor was defeated. This is the SAME issue when Thor beat Hulk so bad that he REFUSE TO FIGHT THOR and hid behind a woman hostage.
Respond to THAT!!!
"I see people bringing up what if comics constantly, in reference to Thor vs. Warhulk. Heck I believe them."
Here's a hint: why don't you read the comics YOURSELF as opposed to listening to mere conjecture.
"The two rivals are very close in power level, w/ a slight edge going to Thor w/ his class 3000 hammer. In hand to hand combat though, I do think that Hulk will win. For one, how can you miss with hands the size of a motorcycle helmet. I know that Thor is a better fighter, but as portrayed in the comics, Thor loses w/o Mjolnir."
You need to read more books. Go read Thor #112 where he was handling the Hulk very well in hand-to-hand.
"Heck if Thor didn't make Juggernaut lose his powers he might have lost that battle too."
He was beating Juggs as well in hand-to-hand.
KaiserSelroc
02/13/2003, 22:43
Heck, even Beta Ray Bill beat up Thor w/o the Mjolnir. The only thing that puts Thor in the same league as a Hulk or a Silver Surfer is his hammer, without it he gets pantsed regularly.
Teletran
02/14/2003, 03:08
Man.... all this Thor talk....
Okay... here's what I have to say:
1. I do consider Thor to be Marvel's answer to Superman
2. I BELIEVE Hulk is potentially stronger than Thor (I mean when Hulk's enraged and all already)
3. Thor is DEFINITELY more powerful than Hulk (as officially stated in the Hulk Annual 2001)
4. Thor, without his hammer and being the God of Thunder, makes a more level-headed "Hercules" equivalent. (Hercules at full strength... not the one diminished of his immortality)
And lastly, Thor WILL NOT deliver 5 clicks of damage! Why?!? Because he's too noble to do that amount of damage! Thor has always been holding back. The only time I admit Thor didn't hold back was in Blood and Thunder where he was insane and out for BLOOD! Mad Thor soundly DEFEATED Beta Ray Bill, Silver Surfer, and the whole Infinity Watch team. Thor even stood up to the combined attack of Dr. Strange and Adam Warlock's Karmic blast. When Moonie mentally attacked Thor with the power of the Mind Gem, it broke through ony because Thor allowed it to set up a trap. Thanos got bloodied before deciding to end the fight by immobilizing Thor. Now this Thor was doing "5 clicks" or more damage. Regular Thor would never do such damage conscientiously against mortal foes. He'll only resort to that when fighting the likes of Galactus and Surtur and the like.
Now who won?!? Ok... another can of worms huh? Against Hulk, Thor mostly holds back... even in the Annual, Thor's intentions were more of a "concern" and with "good intent" for Hulk.. it was not to kill Hulk. In Blood and Thunder, Thor was going all-out while everyone else was in the "concerned" and with "good intentions" for Thor. So the point of who's gonna win is moot since not both parties are really out for the death of the other. On the part of Thanos, it remains to be seen what happens if the fight prolongs fighting head to head. But Thanos would win most of the time because he'll have a gadget that would just defeat Thor instantly.... just like I believe Dr. Doom can whip up some dohickey and immobilize Thor in one shot. Thanos and Doom are villains of a different class. It'll take more brains to take on these kinds of villains... (unless Marvel suddenly whips up a new Mjolnir power that would act like Ironman's or Reed's deus ex machina solutions to win the day)
The only issue that confounds me is the Hulk issue of impersonating the Maestro and tricking the barbarian raged Thor and soundly manipulating Thor. I don't know what the writers were thinking there. Is Thor really in barbarian mode (which should be permanent) or was it quasi-madness? Did his strength really multiply by ten? If Thor really wanted to kill Hulk, he would have donned his URU armor, worn his belt of strength, barbarian raged up, whirlwind Hulk in the air and strike with his Godforce blast. But of course, Thor wouldn't do that or else, Marvel would have one less popular character and we wouldn't have the Hulk movie anymore. Hey, I like Hulk too! But Hulk definitely did not beat Thor into submission and neither did Thor. Both were relatively fine even with the super exchange of blows. Hulk did successfully manipulate Thor here if that's what you're looking for.
On the other hand, Lord Thor is another story and we're yet to see the extent of his feats. Can he be a powerful or even more powerful than Odin? The upcoming issues of Thor will explore the dark consequences of the good natured help he's been giving the past issues. As for Hulk, the Abomination story is coming up and will be drawn the be great Mike Deodato. I'm gonna be picking up those issues!
Hope this helps put things in a better perspective. Cheers! :)
The Sandman
02/14/2003, 09:48
Good post Teletran, I like your reasoning.
hoffmandu
02/14/2003, 10:14
Speaking of Hulk. Anyone pick up that issue 50. It's pretty #### cool. To settle this little squabble, when it comes down to it, Hulk wins......Why? Way better comic. ( no mythical BS goes a long way)
Look...this is a game about comic characters. No need to argue continuity or who is stonger than whom when it may change next week if Superhero X becomes Marvel's flavor of the month.
No character will ever be a perfect example of it's comic self because there have been literally hundreds of permutations and slight changes over the course of their "lives". Just to put things in a funnier perspective I have had some fun with numbers today. Note: All these facts were derived from various and sundry google searches. Assumptions were made by me with obvious and reasonable logic.
Fact 1: Human Skin burns (3rd degree) at a little under 200 degrees F.
http://caoc.com/facts.htm -McDonald's Coffee case.
Fact 2: Asgardian Flesh is 3 times as dense. Thor's 10 times that or 30 times as dense as human flesh. All things being equal and a little suspension of minor details, Thor could withstand approx. up to 6,000 degrees Farenheit.
Fact 3: "Hulk's skin is capable of withstanding great heat without blistering (up to 3,000° Fahrenheit)"
Fact 4: About Firelord: "When all the atoms of his body are in fusion, his energy level is equivalent to the outer layers of a small star"
Fact 6: Outer Layer of star temp: 5,500 - 9,932 degrees F.
Fact 7: "he (Firelord) is virtually impervious to most forms of physical harm"
Fact 8: "it would take radical molecular dispersal to kill him (Firelord)" Radical Molecular Dispersal (of Firelord) = Not a "Known Superpower" of Thor or Hulk or anything they could prob do "by hand".
Final Conclusion: Firelord fries them both. So there.
have fun!
CyberVenom
02/14/2003, 12:19
How cool would a Big Fig of Fin Fang Foom be?!
razorramon31
02/14/2003, 12:21
1- without a doubt the worst representation of a fig in the game is Magneto. Clearly should rival the likes of Dr. Doom, Thanos, Ultron, or at least be some where in that range!
2-Captain America. Again low attack and defense ratings. Could use a bit of leaping and climbing, and definitely be able to target at least two figs, at least in this combat system!
3-Spiderman- Super senses! How can the creators of Hero Clix do Spiderman with out super senses! For pitty's sake man, He is the definition of "super senses". Spidey is the one who started this whole "Super senses" phenomena which bled into other heroes and villans!
4-Hobgoblin totally sucks. A very expensive taxi. Please! For years he spent torturing Spiderman comics. "Nulifing his "spider sense"( I smell outwit) and a cunning and deadly ranged Combart Expert ( hello, I smell another power)!!! Do something for this boy, please!!!
5-Hercules. I tough he was ok until 'Clobbering Time' came out!
Hercules now is a punk when compared to She-Hulk or Thing. Remember that in Marvel Comics this IS 'HERCULES', not a super powered gu who picks up his name.
6-Juggernaut- Again needs to be updated due to the "Thing" and She-Hulk" these figs can go toe to toe with the Jugernaut! Sorry but that just ain't happening.
7-Hulk. Same as above arguement for Juggernaut. I thought the figure was fine but if every time they make an expansion they realize to bring up the characters; then they should not forget the ones the made already!
They are many who escape my mind right now so please forgive me for not adding them on.
Oh one thing about Thor. He is a very powerful piece in the game, but it's true what the others have said; the fig does not give the Hero justice! The same goes for Superman.
If these figs veteran versions go to the 200+ or 250+ range then so be it! The only figs in the game capable of dealing out 5 clicks of damage in the game ight now are: Superman,Doomsday,Hulk,Jugernaut,Thor,Thanos, Firelord and perhaps a Super Nova blast from the Human Torch!( he does 4 on his last click on the vet. version!).
Now how they would work this depends on the hero. CCE solves alot of problems that way others should just have the 5 straight up!
Back to Thor. His last two clicks in his dial ar a farce! Nothing just two blank clikcs! Even the Thing and She-Hulk have Super Strength and Toughness! Thor should have that as well. The though of Thor picking up an object ( like a dumpster) and smashing another fig with it to inflict 6 clicks of damage is to be honest, insulting! Out of all the Thor,Avengers, and other Special guest comics that I hve read and seen Thor in, Rarely if at all does Thor use his Super Strength topick up an object and smash some one with it! Has He done it? Yes, again I say rarely. Thor is already weilding a heavy object! Mjolnir! "Whosoever holds this hammer,if he be worthy, shall possess the power of THOR". The hammer weighs in aprox. 1 to 3 tons- reference to Marvel Superheroes The RPG. Forklifts, dumpsters, and engines would fllinto this 1 ton range would they not? Therefore using a little bit of logic one would see why Thor would not want to pick up a heavy object; He already has one in his hands! Give him 4 clicks with his runing shot, then when running shot comes of the dial give him 3 clicks with CCE! at the end of his dial give him toughness or energy shield/deflection to represent him spinning his hammer to defend himself! I mean get a little creative! He has Inter dimensional abilities!,Controls the Weather! none of these things they gave him. At least make it up in other areas! oh and one more thing about Thor as a fig. His attack sould be at least 1 click higher through out his dial. He just is that much better than the other heroes in Marvel! And we are talking about THOR not Thunderstrike!
Mongoose
02/14/2003, 14:04
And it's no crime to give my opinion on why Thor should get a 5 Damage.
I really don't disagree with you there. I actually believe he should have 5 clicks. I see the veteran version as having the belt which amplifies Thor's strength even further.
You have a WEIRD sense of the word "defeated." If one guy is STILL willing to fight (Thor) while the other guy LEAVES the battle (Hulk) then I don't see how you can call yourself openmined and say Thor was defeated. This is the SAME issue when Thor beat Hulk so bad that he REFUSE TO FIGHT THOR and hid behind a woman hostage.
Respond to THAT!!!
Well a rational being, that isn't out for blood would concede that further punishment might kill somebody else. If I thought that continuing a fight might lead to another person's disability i would stop (I have before in the past). Of course this is Hulk, and he has the mind of a 6 year old. So that is out the window. Was he afraid? Obviously not. I think he was more or less tame after that point, and probably bored. So the win is in his favor. BTW if you wanna get technical here I will throw this at you. Kurse kicked Thor's ### all over the place, and is in fact alot stronger then Thor. So my point is that Thor has lost in the past. I really think you and JayThor are kinda biased, and obviously ignorance is bliss to you. This post is really just wasting my time, because I know that you wont see eye to eye w/ me, no matter what relevant facts I might state, or others for that matter.
In reference to your reply on buying that What if issue. I have over 1000 comics. I really don't wanna spend anymore money on them. I already spend too much money on the heroclix figures. My true passion is my car (A 2000 Z28 that has almost every bolt on), so comics are not my hobby anymore.
hoffmandu
02/14/2003, 14:45
A z28,huh, wow.....i bet you get all the gamer chicks with that cherry ride. Go brag somewhere else, fanboy.
TheDarkKnight
02/14/2003, 15:00
Infinity Challenge HA what a joke. I mean how many mess ups could you have in one set! I mean come on. Now they have to make a new Spiderman and Wolverine to make up for the old ones. I mean geeze. Thats why i have the complete set of DC loyal and kick butt figures (some could be better but there good).
PsychoDBoy
02/14/2003, 18:00
With the whole Thor/Hulk thing...I think they're both fine the way they are. Dono if its been brought up, but I didnt see the ol God of Thunder going toe to toe with Onslaught and actually doing enough damage to start bringing him down. Only time Thor really jumped into that was after Hulk busted up Onslaughts armor...and even then Thor couldnt contain Onslaughts power....ended up being Bruce Banner to put things over
Jadehorde
02/14/2003, 19:08
Originally posted by USAgent
As far as remaking old figures lets start with one of the best, Captain America, they made his veteran weaker than veteran Batman. Not taking anything away from Bats but the Captain has survived WW2, Thanos, Dr Doom(Secret Wars) Onslaught, he needs a movement of 10 attack of 11 defense of 18 with enegry deflection command on his first two clicks then gaining outwit.
Antoher figure that needs to be redone is Thanos, yeah great invulnerability and strong big deal, this is the character that was going to end it all cause he was in love with Death. But instead they make V Dr Doom have the abilities that Thanos should have.
Juggernaut, all in all i think they did a decent job on him, except him losing invulnrability, How come Swamp Thing lasts longer than Juggernaut, we're talkin bout the guy that was thrown through the sun, came out the other side and all he said was "boy that was kinda hot" he doesnt breathe or eat or sleep.
Quicksilver, as much as i like him he shouldnt have higher movement than the Flash, the fight has happened a few times, Flash wins hands down always.
Nick Fury, they made him a glorified sheild agent, once again another human that has taken on war and godlike charatcers with a gun and triumphed, ranged combat expert, toughness, running shot and energy explosion.
Unfortunately, when it's all said and done...Nick Fury is almost useless in a comic fight. He doesn't have super powers, nor super high tech (like Mr Fantastic or Ironman)...he can't even cheat like Batman or some ninja chi master like Iron Fist...he's just a soldier (an extraordinary one, sure)...but that's it...so he's not gonna be able to clear the field like you want....
I'd say most of your other ideas are pretty vaild...though Cap shouldn't be THAT powerful...something in between what you have and the actual one...maybe have the current one keep his stats all the way through to represent his awesome determination...
deal wit' this
02/14/2003, 19:20
Onslaught was the combination of the power of three Alpha class Omni mutants: Magneto, Xavior, and the Richards kid, and he was starting to gain control over Nathan's power too. Thor alone would have simply been a Norse god smear. Heck Magneto alone (if he had been made corrctly) should be able to school Thor, not to mention pretty much all of the Avengers See Ultimate War.
CoolJerk
02/14/2003, 21:12
So yeah, I was reading the topic of this thread and decided to mention the fig I've been so disappointed in that I reworked his r/e/v dials: Mr. Fantastic. Here's my recipe:
• I added one click of Leadership and one of Perplex to the first two clicks of his dial.
• I deepened his dial by two clicks... keeping Outwit but losing all other colors, incl. Plasticity.
I cannot count how many times he's found a solution to a problem/menace by spending some time in his lab or hanging out with the Watcher... and not just beating some assclown with his fists.
There are plenty of others who are mildly disappointing but Reed really needed to stay in the game longer, especially for his point cost.
Plus, his figure is sooo stupid-looking I hacked off his elongated neck and reattached his head, got out the hair dryer and fixed his wraparound arm, straightened his posture and repainted his face.
Can you tell I'm an FF fan?
SuperSkrull
02/15/2003, 02:31
Originally posted by Strikeforce
You know its going to happen, just look at Mage Knight Alpha, Beta for example. Wizkids is going to do it, lets just hope they do it right by remaking some original figures with a little more thought involved in them and their background (we have faith in your John :D ).
For example, which figs would you want to see re-made with more justifiable stats and powers? My pics are the following:
<snipage of Picks>>
These are my top 3 picks for a revised set, any other suggestions?
I can't beleive you didn't m,entionteh Captain America fig if only for the gawdawful sculpt.
Man, I hate that sculpt...
Joe
mylo1wagner
02/15/2003, 23:46
Hawkeye. Needs 1 with RCE and higher attack. Maybe at least as a Unique with leadership (not that Avengers need it).
Tel: 1. I do consider Thor to be Marvel's answer to Superman
Veg: Yup.
Tel: 2. I BELIEVE Hulk is potentially stronger than Thor (I mean when Hulk's enraged and all already)
Veg: That IS a possibility, no doubt. All I’m saying is that it has YET to be proven.
Tel: 3. Thor is DEFINITELY more powerful than Hulk (as officially stated in the Hulk Annual 2001)
Veg: Yup.
Tel: 4. Thor, without his hammer and being the God of Thunder, makes a more level-headed "Hercules" equivalent. (Hercules at full strength... not the one diminished of his immortality)
Veg: True BUT with more experience AND weather abilities.
Tel: And lastly, Thor WILL NOT deliver 5 clicks of damage! Why?!? Because he's too noble to do that amount of damage! Thor has always been holding back.
Veg: THAT reason I can believe, NOT because he doesn’t possess the ABILITY to do 5 Damage. Yet, the games gives the false impression that the Hulk is more powerful than Thor, which he is not.
Tel: The only time I admit Thor didn't hold back was in Blood and Thunder where he was insane and out for BLOOD! Mad Thor soundly DEFEATED Beta Ray Bill, Silver Surfer, and the whole Infinity Watch team. Thor even stood up to the combined attack of Dr. Strange and Adam Warlock's Karmic blast. When Moonie mentally attacked Thor with the power of the Mind Gem, it broke through ony because Thor allowed it to set up a trap. Thanos got bloodied before deciding to end the fight by immobilizing Thor. Now this Thor was doing "5 clicks" or more damage. Regular Thor would never do such damage conscientiously against mortal foes. He'll only resort to that when fighting the likes of Galactus and Surtur and the like.
Veg: Well said.
Razor: Oh one thing about Thor. He is a very powerful piece in the game, but it's true what the others have said; the fig does not give the Hero justice! The same goes for Superman.
He already has one in his hands! Give him 4 clicks with his runing shot, then when running shot comes of the dial give him 3 clicks with CCE! at the end of his dial give him toughness or energy shield/deflection to represent him spinning his hammer to defend himself! I mean get a little creative! He has Inter dimensional abilities!,Controls the Weather! none of these things they gave him. At least make it up in other areas! oh and one more thing about Thor as a fig. His attack sould be at least 1 click higher through out his dial. He just is that much better than the other heroes in Marvel! And we are talking about THOR not Thunderstrike!
Veg: Well said, my man. Well said indeed.
Mongoose: I really don't disagree with you there. I actually believe he should have 5 clicks. I see the veteran version as having the belt which amplifies Thor's strength even further.
Veg: I’m glad we agree here. Although Thor definitely doesn’t need his belt of strength in order to do 5 Damage.
Mongoose: Well a rational being, that isn't out for blood would concede that further punishment might kill somebody else. If I thought that continuing a fight might lead to another person's disability i would stop (I have before in the past). Of course this is Hulk, and he has the mind of a 6 year old. So that is out the window. Was he afraid? Obviously not. I think he was more or less tame after that point, and probably bored.
Veg: Actually, when the hammer came back, the Hulk WAS afraid (“No! NO! NOT the hammer!”) and stopped advancing on Thor. But I’m also talking about the scene when Thor beat Hulk so bad that he REFUSE TO FIGHT THOR and hid behind a woman hostage.
Mongoose: So the win is in his favor. BTW if you wanna get technical here I will throw this at you. Kurse kicked Thor's ### all over the place, and is in fact alot stronger then Thor. So my point is that Thor has lost in the past.
Veg: I NEVER said Thor could not be beaten. I just said he can’t be beaten by the Hulk. The Hulk HIMSELF admitted this (“Why can’t I defeat you??”) in Thor #385.
Mongoose: I really think you and JayThor are kinda biased, and obviously ignorance is bliss to you.
Veg: Actually, I provided references to my claims whereas you have not.
Mongoose: This post is really just wasting my time, because I know that you wont see eye to eye w/ me, no matter what relevant facts I might state, or others for that matter.
Veg: Actually, you haven’t. I’m still waiting for a references from you which states the Hulk proved more stronger than Thor.
Mongoose. In reference to your reply on buying that What if issue. I have over 1000 comics. I really don't wanna spend anymore money on them. I already spend too much money on the heroclix figures. My true passion is my car (A 2000 Z28 that has almost every bolt on), so comics are not my hobby anymore.
Veg: I heard that. Enjoy your hobby, my man.
Originally posted by Vegeta1
"Probally the best comic to clix."
That would be OWAW Superman.
Please tell me this was a joke and you just forgot the smiley.
Okay, I'm exaggerating a touch, but the simple fact is when Superman can't punch through a wall for half of his dial I can't agree with it being a correct adaption, and certainly not the best.
"Please tell me this was a joke and you just forgot the smiley.
Okay, I'm exaggerating a touch, but the simple fact is when Superman can't punch through a wall for half of his dial I can't agree with it being a correct adaption, and certainly not the best."
Yeah but neither can Thor punch through a wall as well for half his dial.
But when you got HSS, OWAW Supes kicks much butt.
Brokensaint
02/20/2003, 15:45
The way I see it, Wizkids will probably just keep making different versions of primary characters in their expansion sets with "corrected" stats.
Of course, you may be right, and another large "Infinity Rematch" type set, with some new figs, and some reworked originals (a'la Magic: The Gathering's various series').
Of course, this type of move may shoot them in the foot, because when I was playing Magic, I never bought the series 4, 5, 6, 7 etc cards, as I already had a huge amount of revised and unlimited. Likewise with IC, I have a pretty solid collection.
On the flip side, though, a reissue of the core set, WITH CHANGES, would be economically in Wizkid's favor, because it would allow entry-level players easy access.
Let me say it again...
WITH CHANGES. New sculpts, paints and stats for the reissues.
As a collector by nature, I want my IC figs, inaccurate as some of them are to their source material, to be the FIRST run, the ONLY place these exact figures can be found. No second printings , please.
OK, so I went kinda stream-of-consciousness there for a minute.
Sorry.
Revamped powers?
Let's see:
Hulk: Impervious
Quicksilver: hypersonic
Wolverine: willpower/ cce
Kingpin: Mastermind
xavier and jean grey: psychic blast
daredevil: super senses/cce
spiderman: super strength/senses
blade/bullseye/elektra: cce
juggernaut: charge
off of the top of my head, anyway, these are my thoughts.
Thank you
bizarrome
02/20/2003, 16:06
What is the rules for team abilities. my friend and I argue over it. Do you ave to have more than two figs with the same abiltity and is it limited to the ones with likea bilities.
Example: Avengers give and extra movement. So if I have Cap, Hawkeye and Batman can the team ability give the extra move to Batman??
Thanks...
Originally posted by bizarrome
What is the rules for team abilities. my friend and I argue over it. Do you ave to have more than two figs with the same abiltity and is it limited to the ones with likea bilities.
Example: Avengers give and extra movement. So if I have Cap, Hawkeye and Batman can the team ability give the extra move to Batman??
Thanks...
Probably should have been a new post instead of a reply, but...
Team abilities apply to the figure with the team ability, so in your example Cap or Hawkeye could move for free, but Batman couldn't because he's not an Avenger (unless, of course, it's the vet Batman, who moves for free because he's JLA).
As to how many of the figure are required to use the ability, that depends upon the ability. Unless the ability requires another figure with that team ability (X-men can only switch damage with X-men, Defenders only share defense with Defenders) you only need one figure with the team ability to use it (Avengers or Brotherhood move for free, even if they are the only person with the team ability).
Okay, first off, Thanos vs. Thor: Thanos will take. Check out the old comic (Marvel Two-in-One or Team-Up, I think. I only have the "Warlock" reprints) where Thanos is snuffing suns with a gun powered by the soul gems. He takes on Thing and Thor in hand-to-hand combat simueltaneously. He takes a hit from Mjolnir and doesn't much care.
Thor vs. Hulk. I haven't got this 2001 annual everyone keeps bringing up. What happens in it? But back when Peter David wrote the title (Incredible Hulk #440), Thor was powered back up to full for the issue, let the "Warrior's Fury" overtake him (meaning he was pulling NO punches), and Hulk took him calmly as part of his plan to save the world. Look at when that bomb drops - the Hulk's first thought is "Oh, no!" because Thor is still there and might be killed, and he swats him out of the blast radius. Hulk was not even enraged, and he was throwing down with Thor going all out. He never even lost sight of his master plan, much less went berserk to tap into his extra-rage-powered strength. He played Thor fighting all out EASILY.
Have a Great Day,
Gary E. Poisson
Pericles
02/20/2003, 16:16
although there were a few oversights in all three sets (on the whole they were excellent, however), the biggest one has to be quicksilver - he doesn't have hypersonic speed? isn't that basis for his whole character?!!?
ok, i'm done now.
Mushroomfantas
02/20/2003, 16:21
However Quicksliver was made before HSS was out
bizarrome
02/20/2003, 16:47
Thanks for the info grinner. You are right I probably shoulda created a new thread, my apologies to anyone it may have caused irritation to...
Thanks....
"Why doesn't my favoritistststs character do the MOST damage in the whole game?!?! Its not fair!!! In issue 345 of Stupid-This-N-That Boomerang hit the Hulks mommy so hard HE felt it. Boomerang should deal LOTS of damage, i mean he throws BOOMERANGS! I've read about him for 2,000 years and loooooooove him, screw you guys he isn't good enough. I'm gonna go pout" :o(
whiney fanboys
Thor is almost too good as is, he is Hardcore beat-stick supreme. Up close and from afar he can bring on the pain. He is by and far better than Superman. In fact when Iron-Man comes out if there isn't a significant difference in point cost why use Iron-Man at all? from the preveiw he certainly sounded worse and the Avengers seem to have their man now already...
This is a game of balance (well sorta) and if Thor would have done 5 damage starting out then he would have lost out on somthing else to make you go on and on and on about. In fact if you recall early notes on the game i think 6 is the most damage any click should ever do, and thats for fully all out mad as cab be Hulk. Savage Hulk anyone?
When youre in your own comic, youre more than likely going to win, maybe not the first time but eventually. Its the home turf advantage. Not only is the writer backing you, the fans are too. which is fine, but keep in mind Thor isn't even popular...at all. So the people that make this game want to keep it appealing to the larget demographic as possible. Anyone else recall who won the fight between him and Wonder Woman in Marvel vs DC? I sure do, poor Thor. Got his widdle hammer taken away and everything.
Thor as a comic is cool because, well, he is Thor after all. (well not really, but thats Earth X for ya) Thor as a click is great, he may not have a million and one powers or be the best end all be all, not there actually is a best anyway actually. but he is balanced, tough as nails, and heck they even let him fly.
"Okay, first off, Thanos vs. Thor: Thanos will take. Check out the old comic (Marvel Two-in-One or Team-Up, I think. I only have the "Warlock" reprints) where Thanos is snuffing suns with a gun powered by the soul gems. He takes on Thing and Thor in hand-to-hand combat simueltaneously. He takes a hit from Mjolnir and doesn't much care."
Not true by a long shot. Thanos was getting his butt handed to him in hand-to-hand combat by both Thing and Thor. When he was knocked back, he unleashed his eye-beams which knocked out Thing. Thor was STILL conscious (although hurt) and still in the fight, which was inconclusive.
"Thor vs. Hulk. I haven't got this 2001 annual everyone keeps bringing up. What happens in it?"
Hulk lost. And it was stated Thor proved more powerful between the two.
"But back when Peter David wrote the title (Incredible Hulk #440), Thor was powered back up to full for the issue,"
Not true (see Avengers #397).
"let the "Warrior's Fury" overtake him (meaning he was pulling NO punches),"
That only happened at the END of the book.
"and Hulk took him calmly as part of his plan to save the world."
Again not true. Doc Samson, the Hulk AND the author HIMSELF stated the Hulk was DEFINITELY enraged!!
“This is a game of balance (well sorta) and if Thor would have done 5 damage starting out then he would have lost out on somthing else to make you go on and on and on about. In fact if you recall early notes on the game i think 6 is the most damage any click should ever do, and thats for fully all out mad as cab be Hulk. Savage Hulk anyone?”
Then that honor SHOULD belong to Thor and NOT the Hulk, since Thor is the more powerful character of the two. Is this THAT hard a concept to follow?
”When youre in your own comic, youre more than likely going to win, maybe not the first time but eventually. Its the home turf advantage.”
Sorry, Thor beat the Hulk in Hulk’s OWN annual and it was stated Thor is the more powerful of the two.
jay_of_titan
02/22/2003, 19:50
Quit whinning over who is stronger!!! No one but you 2 care, and all you do is continue to babble and bicker like two old men having different flashbacks of the same 40 year old event. The point of this thread is to talk about which figures got the shaft (Thanos) and what would make them better. If you want 5 damage from Thor, make him 11 more points and carry around a shield trooper!!!!!!!!
PS: They keep making Spiderman & Wolverine, not to fix them, but so that everyone gets a chance to get one no matter when they start playing (no more IC to be made).
bizarrome
02/22/2003, 20:42
They keep making Spiderman & Wolverine, not to fix them, but so that everyone gets a chance to get one no matter when they start playing (no more IC to be made).
I hadn't heard that, but it seems pretty stupid! The IC set is the only way to get all the basic game pieces. So how does Marvel plan to get new people to start picking up the game if they can't get the basic set with tokens, instructions, powers & abilitlies card, etc.??
Personally I think a new Wolverine, Spiderman, and Hulk figure per set is a bit redundent. Especially if the basic set is no longer available how will that draw in new players and/or collectors if they get get the basic game. (But at leaset they are single uniques)
My opinion on revisions is simple. Uniques only. Why should my other figures become replaced?? I mean heck, with that kind of mentallity then they could design figures for the simple idea of replacing them down the line so as to make more money. I know that their purpose is to make money, but with a sales stratagy like that it would kill the market because players would quickly get fed-up. It has happened before with other collectible games.
"Quit whinning over who is stronger!!! No one but you 2 care, and all you do is continue to babble and bicker like two old men having different flashbacks of the same 40 year old event. The point of this thread is to talk about which figures got the shaft"
So we're not allowed to give our opinions on characters' history or their stats? That's the WHOLE point of this conversation, so take a chill pill.
"(Thanos) and what would make them better."
Thanos is ALREADY a monster in the game with stats he DOESN'T deserve (yeah, I said it)!!!!
I mean a 15 Attack??????????????
C'mon.......
"Personally I think a new Wolverine, Spiderman, and Hulk figure per set is a bit redundent."
I totally agree. But the power of POPULARITY is the MOST devastating power of all.
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