my little rant about rce and rs

[bluca_doop]

can anyone tell me exactly why you cant combine rce with any other super power. i havent been playing this game for a very long time and the only abuse that i can see is perplexing or enhancing the damage. the only powers i can see that would really effect the rce would be pw, ee, or incap. which all reduce the damage to a fixed number anyway. how about the solution of making rce not being able to be combined with another characters superpower. that way a character like cyclops and hawkeye wouldnt be completely useless like they are now. they are two characters that i would really like to use but i just dont because they are overpriced for what you get out of them. if you could combine their rs and rce then wouldnt they be a lot more worth their price. on the dc front im not sure about the cce though. i havent really looked into because i play a lot more marvel. well, anyway im sure this topic has been discussed before and im sorry for resurecting it. i just want to use my cyclops and my hawkeye.

[BudPalmer]

The bottom line is that it clearly states in the rules that RCE cannot be used uth any other super power. I understand your problem and believe me I'd love to use Cyclops' running shot with RCE but thems the rules. Its the same with Hawkman's CCE and charge (that just sucks!). I think that Wizkids thinks is that these two powers add a definite number of clicks to the attack so in allowing them to be combined with other powers they become unfair. I think if the power used with RCE & CCE doesn't add to the damage done it should be cool but then I don't make the rules. And if you think Cyclops is worthless, you aren't using him right (can you say cheap taxi?). I will agree that he is overpriced but I blame the X-Men team ability on that. Most X-Men are overpriced even my favorite, Veteran Rogue, is a bit high in the points department. I don't even us the power all that much but I'm too big a fan of the members to not use them. Just my two cents.

[Badges2]

RCE is when you completely focus on your target and find a weak link in his armor. You can't do that when you are running (running shot) (charge). You can't do that when some one is cheering you on (perplex). You can't do that when you are shooting at two people (two arrows). It makes sense if you think about it. I would love to combine it with other powers, but I'm okay with the fact that I can't. If you could, that would add a good 10 - 20 extra points to those figures. I'd rather pay the extra 20 to be able to use Hawkeye, but oh well. Maybe the new guy in charge will re-make him like Sidey.

[the itsy bit]

RS and RCE is not worth much of anything.
I will never use my Cyclops without a taxi or TK from Jean,I can promise you that.
this rules chance severly hurt the X-men the most because Cyclops was the only ranged damage guy they had !
(well maybe triple enhanced and using his multishot, but honestly that's the only use for it.)
bluca_doop WK changed it to the point where it is now (you used to be able to use RS AND RCE).

[PMMJ]

Originally posted by the itsy bit
bluca_doop WK changed it to the point where it is now (you used to be able to use RS AND RCE).

Not since the game was released.

[FalconKnight]

Originally posted by BudPalmer
I think if the power used with RCE & CCE doesn't add to the damage done it should be cool but then I don't make the rules.

i totally agree, but that would be just really confusing....

RCE- adds 2 dmg to your ranged attack, cannot be used with perplex, enhancement, etc, etc.

so they just mnade it ALL powers... which makes sense too, if you read badges post

[TheYanger]

Except that they willy nilly assigned the power to people who don't really need it to work that way. IE cyclops, sure it's supposed to represent his excellence at range as opposed to close etc, but come on, I don't CARE if he has time to aim for your 'weak point', an optic blast anywhere that hits should be doing more than 1 click of damage no matter how far he ran that turn.

[Spinebreaker]

>>>I don't CARE if he has time to aim for your 'weak point', an optic blast anywhere that hits should be doing more than 1 click of damage no matter how far he ran that turn.<<<

If Cyke roughly aims in someone's direction and hits them in the leg it should do exactly the same amount of damage as if he concentrates on hitting his target bang in the face???

Ridiculous.

Running shot is sacrificing massive damage for the sake of hitting quickly.

It's a good rule, it makes sense.

Accept it, Move on.

[CPUX]

Here's my problem: my friend says the SHIELD ability works with RCE. I don't. Does it?

Short & to the point :D

[The Sandman]

It does, team abilities can work with RCE. (Judges, correct me if I'm wrong.)

[Todosi]

You are correct Sandman, team abilities may be used with RCE.

Todosi

[MarkFinn]

Oh yeah, it works!

I ran a Vet Hawkeye with a rookie SHIELD medic the other night (sort of a tribute to The Ultimates, which is one of the best comics out right now), and I kept them buddied up for the game. It came in handy twice, and Hawkeye was my key backup player. Toad couldn't get far enough away from me, and every time he tried, I tossed four clicks of damage on him (once from maximum range, which killed him).

Hawkeye: "Hey Toad, I thought I told you to stay put!"

Thwip!
Whack!
Thud.

Big fun. I won that game, too.

[Beastchylde]

So can you probability control an attack roll made with RCE?

[Tsannik]

Yes, Probability Control can be used on the figure making the RCE attack

[EVIL CAP]

"Well he cant concentrate and find a weak po.."

No please just....No dont

Seriously its a stupid and very arbitray way to justify it how about we just admit that its a rule put in there for balance purposes and leave it at that.Superman shouldnt be Vulnerable to bad aim of explosive devices but he is we dont justify by pretending the bad aim has a chance of "Catching him off guard" because then it could be applied to Energy deflection and probably a drekload of other things.Just say its a balance thing and let it be done

[TheSpirit]

Even though you can't use the two powers together, a figure like Cyclops who has both RCE and RS is far from useless. Just think about Outwit. If someone outwits your RCE, you still have RS. If they outwit RS, you still have RCE. Sometimes the value of a figure isn't in its ability to inflict massive damage, but in its flexibility to respond to different situations.

With Cyclops, you have options. Put him just out of reach of your enemy, or around a corner. Your opponent is forced to either move into your RCE range or retreat out of RS range. Or harass medics - he can't just throw a thug up to block your ranged attack, because you can just sidestep him and blast away at the more important target. But he has to block LoF with someone, because if he doesn't you'll just level the medic with RCE. Battles are won by the side with the initiative, the one who forces his opponent to react - sometimes hastily. A fig with RCE and RS is a great way to gain the initiative.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by TheSpirit
Even though you can't use the two powers together, a figure like Cyclops who has both RCE and RS is far from useless. Just think about Outwit... Sometimes the value of a figure isn't in its ability to inflict massive damage, but in its flexibility to respond to different situations.


Cyclops is overcosted because he can't use his RS WITH RCE (the way he was made).
you want flexibility: take a cheap taxi with a fig with RCE same if not better effect !
If I have a fig with outwit I would take away damage dealing power (RCE) If he was going to attack, defencive power if I was going to attack him (E/SD).
heroclix is a fast game more damage is better then versatility !IMHO.
Kang looked fine=> look at all the things he can do !but he's overcosted, so less usefull then say bullseye=> look many people think I'm good and I can ONLY do 1 thing !



With Cyclops, you have options. Put him just out of reach of your enemy, or around a corner. Your opponent is forced to either move into your RCE range or retreat out of RS range. Or harass medics - he can't just throw a thug up to block your ranged attack, because you can just sidestep him and blast away at the more important target. But he has to block LoF with someone

you stand around the corner: I airlift in there and blast you.
I'm sorry BUT putting a taxi in your team gives you more options then using Cyclops (however much a fan I am of the X-men !)'s RS.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by Tsannik
Yes, Probability Control can be used on the figure making the RCE attack

can perplex be used with RCE ?
It's a power, but alters the Damage stat (to say..3) so when I shoot I could do 3+RCE ?

another question:
How in blazes does a Shield agent enhance the attack of Boomerangs boomerang ?:D

RS is "sacrifising massive damage for hitting quickly"..
Why does Annihilus Do his normal damage then ?
shouldn't he get a penalty for running with a loaded weapon?!:(
and ..
without RS he can stabilize and aim and therefor do full damage:
yep getting dropped somewhere by a flyer or thrown across a building with TK really wouldn't make me sick, BUT moving only half your normal speed (taking position for a good shot) makes Cyclops target go off ?
just admit that is was done for "so-called" gamebalance !


from the Dutch translation:
Running shot:...This character may use all his superpowers which use a ranged attack action"

ok with RCE it says : ..this power doesn't work with other Superpowers like: Superstrenght and enhancement"
which read to me like you COULD use RS with RCE (and so did all the other people around here) until I came to this site, So I assumed WK changed it.

[CyberVenom]

I think you might have misread it. When the rule book says "....like Superstrength or Enhancment", they used those two as an example because they can affect how many clix of damage are done, but they meant all powers as a whole.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by CyberVenom
I think you might have misread it. When the rule book says "....like Superstrength or Enhancment", they used those two as an example because they can affect how many clix of damage are done, but they meant all powers as a whole.

I got that by now (we just played it wrong in the beginning) because: If Cyclops can't do his 4 damage at range when using RS, then It would be kind of useless now wouldn't it ?
Why not simply taxi/TK Cyclops?
why?
why??
Why would WK make Cyclops the X-man with the blast powerfull enough to shoot through adamantium give him a power that would make him a thug who is running with a gun ?

and everybody who played collected it here agreed.

[BudPalmer]

The FAQ section on the WizKids site added running shot to the list of powers it can't be used with.

[Mongoose]

I, for one, am happy that RCE and RS can't be used together. Can you imagine Cyclops having an effective 13 range with 4 damage? I mean, why would anybody wanna use anyone else? The guy is relatively cheap (78 point for veteran), and does good damage as is. I have a friend that whines and B$tches about the rules all the time, all because he isn't winning. Heck if I didn't read the rules earlier then he would be continuing to do 4 points of damage, w/ running shot, on 3 characters (He said that he never read that multiple targets damage. Right). Think about it guys. The guy does from 3-4 points of damage w/ 10 range, all for 78 points. That is as much damage as Mags, and further down the dial. He just has to stay still to do it. It is called "game balance". It's kinda like how soaring characters can't attack grounded figures. Obviously the grounded figs would never be able to hit the soaring figs if they didn't have a ranged attack.

[Earnan]

Annihilus pays for the ability to RS and do 3 damage in his point cost. The Vet costs 129 and on;y does 3 damage for 2 clicks. I'm not saying that this isn't useful, but you are paying a lot for that ability.

Your main point seems to be that a taxi gives you 'free' RS, and gives you a better range and lets you do full damage. I'm not going to argue with you there. That is very true. But, what you've done is take the 78 point V Cyclops and add at least 15 points for a R Vulture, making 93 points for that little combo. And then it takes 2 activations. The extra damage it does does is superior, the point cost isn't. If you want to make that action cost only one activation, then you need to add E Wasp. At 33 points, this makes your little combo 111 points. And that is a healthy chunk of most teams.

6 of the 7 characters so far in Marvel HC (I'm ignoring DC to make this easier) with RS and RCE also have multiple lightning bolts. The 7th is the Ned Leeds LE, and he does not have the 2 on the same click, so he gets ignored. This makes a big difference. This means that V Cyclops actually has three options for an attack. He can RS one target for 2, stand and fire for 4, or attack 3 targets for 1 click each by either staying put or using RCE.

I understand the point that a taxi adds more flexibility to a team. In fact, it really does. But I don't feel that this is a usless combination. The power isn't obvious, but it is there.

Also, I get tired of people sniping at WK for all of their 'arbitrary' decisions. Try playing a few games allowing RS and RCE to be used together. See if any other RCE characters get used after that. The same goes for any other rule or ruling that you (meaning anyone reading this, not any one person in particular) feel is unjustified. See if it changes the game in a negative or positive way. See what characters suddenly become obsolete.

WK is not perfect. They do make mistakes. But don't assume that just because you don't like a ruling, they are doing it arbitrarily.

WarlordEarnan

[TheSpirit]

Originally posted by the itsy bit
I'm sorry BUT putting a taxi in your team gives you more options then using Cyclops (however much a fan I am of the X-men !)'s RS.

Yes, and Earnan has pointed out why that's not quite the same thing. Besides, if you use a taxi with Cyclops, you can move the taxi's range and attack with Cyclops and RCE, or move the taxi's range and half of Cyclops's range and then attack with Cyclops and RS. When you add a second figure, you gain a lot more options. Cyclops just starts with more options all by himself.

Not all powers are supposed to act together. Look at a figure with Pulse Wave and RCE - they don't work together either. So why is the RS/RCE combo the only one people ask about? You can either move and shoot, or stand still and hit heavy. It's called VARIETY, and it means you have to use tactics to achieve victory, instead of simply stomping all over your opponent. You have to be smarter than the other guy as well as lucky. That's what makes the game so good.

[the itsy bit]

yeah RS with multiple targets Could be usefull IF I add another (Shield+ say Psylocke) 12+30?
wow that takes a lot of actions and I would only have a range of 13 (hmmm, maybe I will get lucky and my opponent won't notice it !?:rolleyes: ).
Now if I added 2 taxi's I could do it with a reasonable chance of succeeding? Oh wait then I won't be using that RS AGAIN !

taking on multiple targets with Cyclops later on in the game (when most of the figs are damage is GOOD if not great!!),But on his first clicks (with the RS) it just doesn't DO anything really.

I'm not complaining as much as RS/RCE I'm complaining more about Cyclops being overcosted because of it.

[bluca_doop]

that last thing the itsy bit sais was really what i was getting at. i really like cyclops and hawkeye ( not many have mentioned him ) but they seem to be overpriced. for example: veteran cyclops costs 78 points, while say a bullseye 43 and a wasp 33 which comes to a 76. cheaper than cyclops, can move and shoot with more range ( 19 spaces or something like that ) and get all that for one action, plus wasps incapacitate in a pinch. honestly how many of you would pick the cyclops over the bullseye/wasp combo. if i could use rs/rce together i would pick cyclops because he is a character i like. bullseye is not a character a like because i dont care that much for daredevil. it just seems when a character has those abilities on the same click it causes their point values to go up and make the character obsolete. whereas if you could use those abilities together then he would seem to be worth the price. same goes for hawkeye. ( esecially hawkeye )

[XocgX]

Originally posted by the itsy bit



another question:
How in blazes does a Shield agent enhance the attack of Boomerangs boomerang ?:D



I hope I quoted that right ;-)

I always saw it as the Shield team member was simply shooting at the same target you were (why they use an action) so the damage was increased by 1. Sort of insane team work.

As for RCE, the point is this. Annihilis is powerful close or far. His damage is 3. Cyclops has a devestating ranged attack, but at close combat he is simply a well trained fighter, so his attack is 2. This is why the sniper and some hawkeye versions have attacks of 0. When you fight Close combat, imagine fighting saomeone who is like 6 inches from you, dodging and weaving....a 3 foot sniper rifle, bow and arrow and even eye beams aren't going to help much if at all. guys who either don't have RCE or ALOS have high damage flat out are simply powerful in all attack methods.

I simply see RCE as a differentiation for figs who have ranged attacks that are better then their close combat attacks.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by XocgX


I hope I quoted that right ;-)

I always saw it as the Shield team member was simply shooting at the same target you were (why they use an action) so the damage was increased by 1. Sort of insane team work.

As for RCE, the point is this.. When you fight Close combat, imagine fighting someone who is like 6 inches from you, dodging and weaving....a 3 foot sniper rifle, bow and arrow and even eye beams aren't going to help much if at all. guys who either don't have RCE or ALOS have high damage flat out are simply powerful in all attack methods.



OK about the Shield team thing(it was more a light comment then a question)see :D

second, yes RCE works differently up close then at range.
( though :D If I hit you with a rifle on your head you WOULD feel pain, LOTR: legolas pushes an arrow in an Orcs eye that will leave a mark you know :D )
I like that WK made a balance between ranged and melee figs , But that was NOT what we where discussing on this thread.

we where discussing the fact that Cyclops's Running Shot in combination with RCE is useless/overrated/too costly (and same goes for hawkeye;) .

[Mongoose]

but they seem to be overpriced. for example: veteran cyclops costs 78 points, while say a bullseye 43 and a wasp 33 which comes to a 76. cheaper than cyclops, can move and shoot with more range ( 19 spaces or something like that ) and get all that for one action, plus wasps incapacitate in a pinch.
No offense but Cyclops can peck off Bullseye at his leisure. The guy has running shot (An effective 13 range). Sure he will only do 2 points of damage, but by then Bullseye will be pretty messed up trying to hit Cyclop's defense number. Cyclops can do 4 damage, and Bullseye can only do 3. There is a big difference there if you think about it. I mean if I blast Juggernaut w/ Bullseye he will feel a slight bruise on his leg. Nail him w/ Cyclops and 2 points get through instead of one. Also look at the defense target number for Bullseye. The guy is easy to hit.

[Meepo]

Originally posted by TheSpirit
Even though you can't use the two powers together, a figure like Cyclops who has both RCE and RS is far from useless. Just think about Outwit. If someone outwits your RCE, you still have RS. If they outwit RS, you still have RCE. Sometimes the value of a figure isn't in its ability to inflict massive damage, but in its flexibility to respond to different situations.

With Cyclops, you have options. Put him just out of reach of your enemy, or around a corner. Your opponent is forced to either move into your RCE range or retreat out of RS range. Or harass medics - he can't just throw a thug up to block your ranged attack, because you can just sidestep him and blast away at the more important target. But he has to block LoF with someone, because if he doesn't you'll just level the medic with RCE. Battles are won by the side with the initiative, the one who forces his opponent to react - sometimes hastily. A fig with RCE and RS is a great way to gain the initiative.

Great points! I'm glad there is at least one other Cyclops fan out there. he is very versatile for my ever-changing needs. Plus, I use him (and Hawkeye) just so he doesn't feel sad around the other figures.

[dmac7979]

I'm a big Cyclops fan too. I use his running shot to get into better position for his 3 shot attack. And my Hawkeye just sits around and feels sad, but I've been making it a point to use figs that I havent used all that much lately (I paid for them, why not try 'em once?)

[Thorgrin]

Are you kidding me?

1. Wasp moves at a range of 8. Bullseye has a range of 10. So they can sitback at a range of 18.

2. Cyclops (for roughly the same point value) has a range of 13. 10 + 3 for running shot

3. Bullseye has the advantage with Wasp. His attack is a 11 vs. 17 for Cyclops (15 + 2 for energy deflection). Odds are that he'll hit. Also, I'll be sure to land Bullseye in some hindering terrain as well. Cyclops's damage drops to 1 + RCE and his attack now drops to a 9 (after 3 points of damage). So now he'll need to hit a minimum of 18 (16 + 2 for energy deflection) or a 19 in which minimum he'll need to roll is a 9 or 10.

4. Plus I also have one extra figure to either taxi, use incapacitate, etc. So the advantage in the end would go to me.

5. This is not assuming any other figures, just the comparison of a vet cyclops and a vet bullseye/exp wasp combo going head to head for roughly the same point value.

Your point about Bullseye's defense being low, well vet Cyclops is even lower.

I don't want to get into the debate of whether RS and RCE should work, but a range of "13" to do 2 points of damage really isn't much at all where there are lots of other figures that can do better and do more damage. *shrug*

Originally posted by Mongoose

No offense but Cyclops can peck off Bullseye at his leisure. The guy has running shot (An effective 13 range). Sure he will only do 2 points of damage, but by then Bullseye will be pretty messed up trying to hit Cyclop's defense number. Cyclops can do 4 damage, and Bullseye can only do 3. There is a big difference there if you think about it. I mean if I blast Juggernaut w/ Bullseye he will feel a slight bruise on his leg. Nail him w/ Cyclops and 2 points get through instead of one. Also look at the defense target number for Bullseye. The guy is easy to hit.

[bluca_doop]

mongoose quote:

No offense but Cyclops can peck off Bullseye at his leisure. The guy has running shot (An effective 13 range). Sure he will only do 2 points of damage, but by then Bullseye will be pretty messed up trying to hit Cyclop's defense number. Cyclops can do 4 damage, and Bullseye can only do 3. There is a big difference there if you think about it. I mean if I blast Juggernaut w/ Bullseye he will feel a slight bruise on his leg. Nail him w/ Cyclops and 2 points get through instead of one. Also look at the defense target number for Bullseye. The guy is easy to hit.

1. one on one yes cyclops will defeat bullseye. i think that that is what you were getting at right?

2. for the points you can get a e-wasp AND v-bullseye

3. bullseye has a defense of 18 at range. 16 plus es/d. cyclops has a defense of 17. 15 plus es/d. they both have the same attack value of 11.

4. bullseye and wasp can sit 18 spaces away from cyclops and move in and hit him at THEIR leisure. therefor bullseye would need a 6 to hit cyclops. whereas cyclops would need 7 to hit bulleye. i cant count the number of times that i have needed a 7 and rolled a six. it would seem that cyclops would be the one that is EASIER to hit. not easy by any means unless you are rolling magical dice.

5. the combo of wasp/bulleye would always have first srtike ability over cyclops ( for roughly the same points ). and should the dice roll accordingly then they would always beat cyclops.

all the people who rationalize that by saying that it is that way because you cant hit a weak spot in armor while you are running. i was under the impression that cyclops or hawkeye could hit anything they wanted to hit anytime that they wanted to hit it regardless of if they were running, doing backflips, standing one their head or whatever. come on all cyclops has to do is look at something to hit it right. i can look and run at the same time, so im sure that he can to. i would have to agree with those who have said that it was a gamebalance issue as to why it worked the way that is does and my question was questioning the gamebalance issue. it doesnt seem overpowered to me but thats just me. i thought that someone would be able to give me some team that someone started using that was severely abusing the rs/rce enough that the rules had to be changed because of it.

[quixotequest]

I'd love to see a flying SHIELD agent (rocket backpack). Not only does SHIELD need some flyers for those of us who'd love to play with an all-SHIELD team, but think of the bonus we could give an RCE hero like Cyke? Drool...

[Earnan]

There never was a team, since it was ruled very early that you couldn't. But here's one that would.

A move 10 taxi, and Cyclops. RS 3, then hit a figure for 4, before the game really even starts. A little unbalanced.

Thorgrin-I understand your point. And you are correct. V Bullseye and E Wasp are superior to Cyclops. But you are missing the point of the thread.

What a few of us (the load and stubborn minority, as it would seem) are trying to point out is that RCE and RS together are not useless. What it does is open up options. Heck, I didn't even realize it until a couple months ago. I do use a taxi with Cyclops, for the reasons you gave. In one tournament game, a team had holed up on the roof, and there was no way to get up the stairs without, well, losing. Wasp barely got Cyke onto the roof, and even then it was behind one of the durned vents. I thought I was gonna lose, until I realized that Cyke had RS. He used it to move and target all 3 figures on the roof. I admit, I got lucky and rolled doubles, knocking 2 figures off the roof. But, it also took away the Medics healing, while weakening the other figures.


Hawkeye is another story entirely. Basically, you get the chance to do 2 damage to one figure, or 1 damage to up to 2 figures. He's expensive due to the Avengers team ability, which he'll likely only use once a game. Now, if I get my hands on his LE, I'm gonna play the halibut out of him...

I don't think that anyone is gonna see the power of RS/RCEuntil Psylocke comes out. When Cyke gets the ability to do 2 damage to 3 targets for 6 damage total, all for one action without requiring another token on another figure, it's gonna be good times... :)

WarlordEarnan

[SWCrusader]

I play DC and am surrounded by Marvel only players, so I have to field DC teams vs Marvel teams. I'm already getting screwed by the hideous disparity in Defence and Attack totals between the 2 groups, and the badass powers that only Marvel has (prob control, Barrier, Defend, Running Shot, Flurry and Telekenisis). Add on the fact that everyone and their uncle has 10 range in Marvel and hardly anyone in DC does (weather wizard... Booster Gold???) AND that the Shield team ability is WAY too good compared to say the PD team ability AND that Marvel has a million wildcard team abilities with DC having one (and no figures for it)...
*sigh* rant over.
Essentially RCE and RS is a munchkin thing to wish for. As several posters have mention Cyclops is a badass and he has the flexibility to choose either or. Sure I get frustrated on the DC side that Braniac 13 can't use Psychic Blast and RCE (which makes more sense than RCE and RS) but I realize it is an essential balancing rule.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by Earnan
A move 10 taxi, and Cyclops. RS 3, then hit a figure for 4, before the game really even starts. A little unbalanced.

Thorgrin-I understand your point. And you are correct. V Bullseye and E Wasp are superior to Cyclops. But you are missing the point of the thread.

What a few of us (the load and stubborn minority, as it would seem) are trying to point out is that RCE and RS together are not useless. What it does is open up options. Heck, I didn't even realize it until a couple months ago. I do use a taxi with Cyclops, for the reasons you gave. In one tournament game, a team had holed up on the roof, and there was no way to get up the stairs without, well, losing. Wasp barely got Cyke onto the roof, and even then it was behind one of the durned vents. I thought I was gonna lose, until I realized that Cyke had RS. He used it to move and target all 3 figures on the roof. I admit, I got lucky and rolled doubles, knocking 2 figures off the roof. But, it also took away the Medics healing, while weakening the other figures.


Hawkeye is another story entirely. Basically, you get the chance to do 2 damage to one figure, or 1 damage to up to 2 figures... Now, if I get my hands on his LE, I'm gonna play the halibut out of him...

I don't think that anyone is gonna see the power of RS/RCEuntil Psylocke comes out...

WarlordEarnan

1)taxi with Cyclops RS/RCE: wow you hit someone FIRST for 4 damage (how much does that taxi cost that has 10 move?
how is this different then taxiing FL ??
and then your Cyclops dies, great trade off for 78 points !

2) Nope, Thorgrin exactely got MY point and Bluca_doop's point: how is using RS at an inferrior range for less damage to a cheaper costing taxi/ranged fig going to ever make MY Cyclops being MORE versatile !?

3) WOW, the 1 exception to the rule ! 78 points to render a medic or 2 out of healing (like I said is good), But the heavy hitter next to him would've killed Cyclops (because he can shrugg off the 1 damage !) AND you where lucky with Knock-back.
Nope Cyclops's RS is still not usefull enough,because couldn't you have hit the heavy hitter for 4 damage ?

4) yep, like I said Hawkeye (and Cyclops) are too expensive !!:rolleyes:

5) yep Psylocke with any fig with multiple targets will be great (but then I'm not using the RCE part) IF I'm using RS ?

bottom line..
If I play an all X-men team and my opponent uses Juggernaut (leaving Wheels mostly helpless against him !) Cyclops is going to scratch him once (for 4 damage When I'm NOT using RS) and then it's lights out !
What an encouraging thought that must be for Cyclops !
I WILL say this for the last time !: I only want Cyclops/hawkeye to be better !!!!!!!!!!
now they could give him 4 starting damage To use with RS, BUT then that would make him overpowered ?!