View Full Version : Galactus team ability vs. skrull yellow jacket
listed below is the skrull yellowjacket ability can it cancel out Galactus team ability? Is there any other ways to cancel out Galatus team ability?
Thanks
BrianG
TRAITOR: Yellowjacket can use Outwit. He can use it normally, or he can choose a team ability possessed by an opposing character 6 or fewer squares away to which he can draw a clear line of fire and counter that team ability on all opposing characters.
listed below is the skrull yellowjacket ability can it cancel out Galactus team ability? Is there any other ways to cancel out Galatus team ability?
Thanks
BrianG
TRAITOR: Yellowjacket can use Outwit. He can use it normally, or he can choose a team ability possessed by an opposing character 6 or fewer squares away to which he can draw a clear line of fire and counter that team ability on all opposing characters.
It will not work. The Power Cosmic TA says that it cannot be countered (not canceled).
You can use the Disbanded BFC to ignore the TA.
You can Mind Control a figure with the TA and cancel the TA. (It will return at the end of the turn, as will all countered powers.)
Contingency Plan
09/11/2009, 12:10
Same thing with Quintessance. Both it and the Cosmic power cannot be canceled.
Like Harpua said, only Disbanded will get rid of it.
Same thing with Quintessance. Both it and the Cosmic power cannot be canceled.
Like Harpua said, only Disbanded will get rid of it.
they can be Canceled.
They can not be Countered.
There is a difference b/w the two.
It will not work. The Power Cosmic TA says that it cannot be countered (not canceled).
You can use the Disbanded BFC to ignore the TA.
You can Mind Control a figure with the TA and cancel the TA. (It will return at the end of the turn, as will all countered powers.)
Keep in mind that Big G cannot be Mind Controlled
So, with those types (the colossals) the ONLY option is the BFC Disbanded
Keep in mind that Big G cannot be Mind Controlled
So, with those types (the colossals) the ONLY option is the BFC Disbanded
Well, I was read "the Galactus team ability" to mean Power Cosmic and not necessarily that he was facing Big G.
I'm going to ask this in here.
Does Power Cosmic prevent against Thwart? I'm guessing no but wouldn't mind an answer
I'm going to ask this in here.
Does Power Cosmic prevent against Thwart? I'm guessing no but wouldn't mind an answer
No. Thwart doesn't counter - and even if it did, the Power Cosmic team ability prevents the countering of powers and team abilities only.
themonkey
09/11/2009, 17:35
the Power Cosmic team ability prevents the countering of powers and team abilities only.
That means you can still counter special abilities possessed by Power Cosmic characters.
Most of them have the :m-wing: symbol. So it's always fun to outwit the Flight and/or Carry abilities.
That means you can still counter special abilities possessed by Power Cosmic characters.
Most of them have the :m-wing: symbol. So it's always fun to outwit the Flight and/or Carry abilities.
Yay... that is so much more fun than outwitting Impervious!
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/11/2009, 23:20
That means you can still counter special abilities possessed by Power Cosmic characters.
Most of them have the :m-wing: symbol. So it's always fun to outwit the Flight and/or Carry abilities.
This works, but if using the Galactus (the first one), even if his Flight Ability is countered, it doesn't slow him down a bit due his special movement power concerning hindering terrain, and even indoor blocking terrain.
Steelmage2000
09/12/2009, 00:03
That means you can still counter special abilities possessed by Power Cosmic characters.
Most of them have the :m-wing: symbol. So it's always fun to outwit the Flight and/or Carry abilities.
From the PAC:
Power Cosmic Characters using the Power Cosmic team ability do not take
pushing damage and their powers can’t be countered. This team ability can’t be used by wild
cards or be countered.
From the Marvel Errata and Clarifications June 2008:
Power Cosmic Team Ability
This team ability cannot be countered.
So it appears you are right.
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 00:08
From the PAC:
From the Marvel Errata and Clarifications June 2008:
.
The Marvel Errata and Clarifications of June 2008 is no longer active though. All those numerous errata that came out in June 2008, then July 2008, have all been replaced by the Player's Guides and Player's Guides Updates released in October 2008.
If you don't have these current rules, you can download them at my site, since the WizKids site is down.
Here is a direct link to my HeroClix Resources page:
http://www.clan-vga.com/stark_tower/heroclix.html
Steelmage2000
09/12/2009, 04:52
The Marvel Errata and Clarifications of June 2008 is no longer active though. All those numerous errata that came out in June 2008, then July 2008, have all been replaced by the Player's Guides and Player's Guides Updates released in October 2008.
If you don't have these current rules, you can download them at my site, since the WizKids site is down.
Here is a direct link to my HeroClix Resources page:
http://www.clan-vga.com/stark_tower/heroclix.html
Those rules I put up still stand even with the July 2008 players' guide.
Those rules I put up still stand even with the July 2008 players' guide.
...which are also no longer valid and were also replaced with the October player's guide. :p
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 10:38
...which are also no longer valid and were also replaced with the October player's guide. :p
Yep, which is why I put a link to my site so if you need the October 2008 version, I have both the Unrestricted, Restricted, and PG Update on the site for download.
One of the judges at one of the venues I play at has been, as late as last week, been using the July 2008 version. I would point out certain rules, and he would be quoting from the July 2008 version, and I'm quoting from the Oct. 2008 version. So last week I finally asked him if he had the newest version of rules. LOL. That was the cause of all the confusion right there.
Steelmage2000
09/12/2009, 12:37
...which are also no longer valid and were also replaced with the October player's guide. :p
Then show me in the update players guide where Power Cosmic AT powers change from do not take pushing damage, their powers can't be countered, their team ability cannot be countered nor copied by wildcards. It seems to me those guides are an addition to the FF players guide and PAC (not replacing them), as well as correcting any errata but the errata not corrected still stands. :rolleyes:
Then show me in the update players guide where Power Cosmic AT powers change from do not take pushing damage, their powers can't be countered, their team ability cannot be countered nor copied by wildcards. It seems to me those guides are an addition to the FF players guide and PAC (not replacing them), as well as correcting any errata but the errata not corrected still stands. :rolleyes:
???
What errata? It says it on the PAC.
(Before saying this next thing, let me preface it by stating the obvious. WK does not exist.)
My point is that the July document is a dead document. Nothing in there would be legal for making a ruling. The ONLY legal player's guide is the most recent one, so pointing out anything in the July one is not needed.
Steelmage2000
09/12/2009, 14:15
???
What errata? It says it on the PAC.
(Before saying this next thing, let me preface it by stating the obvious. WK does not exist.)
My point is that the July document is a dead document. Nothing in there would be legal for making a ruling. The ONLY legal player's guide is the most recent one, so pointing out anything in the July one is not needed.
In my first post on this thread was a quote from the PAC.
The other quote on that first post came from what I could recently find in the documents.
Paradox Factor
09/12/2009, 14:36
Ok, not to derail the topic here, but I have an odd questing invloving both the Yellowjackets that just popped into my head. Both have a power that makes them a Giant. Both powers aren't listed asnon-optional, which means like with all non optional powers they can be ignored. However, the Giant size portion of the Giant ability says (non-optional) This character can’t be knocked back and ignores other characters’ Force Blast and Plasticity powers. This ability can’t be countered or canceled.
So what I'm asking is since the Giant Size portion of the Giant ability isn't optional, does that mean that you can't choose to turn off the power? I rememeber back when JL came our, it was pointed out that you could with Emperor Joker, but that was pre-FF rulebook.
MadSmokerVGreen
09/12/2009, 14:45
you can shrink back down unless it says non-optional on the SP or they are a true giant with the dial symbol for it
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 14:55
GIANT MAN: Yellowjacket possesses the {giant} damage symbol and can use Charge. is the power you are referring to.
Since the Giant Size ability is non-optional, you can't choose to Cancel the ability, nor can it be Countered using Outwit.
But the Giant Stride ability can be Countered using Outwit.
I can understand why the rule was changed, as some giant characters are stuck as giants, and can't change their size. However, when it comes to Hank Pym, his Special Power should have been a bit different than standard Giant Size. Hank Pym should have an Optional form of Giant Size which would allow him change between a Giant fig and a Grounded fig before or after an action was given. The reason being is he does it in the comics all the time. Since DC seems to get more love than Marvel characters from the designers, I'm sure we'll have a DC fig soon with a similar power.
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 14:56
you can shrink back down unless it says non-optional on the SP or they are a true giant with the dial symbol for it
GIANT MAN: Yellowjacket possesses the {giant} damage symbol and can use Charge.
... and since the Giant Man Special Power gives both Yellowjackets the Giant Damage Symbol, he cannot shrink down, unless you Cancel the Special Power.
is the power you are referring to.
Since the Giant Size ability is non-optional, you can't choose to Cancel the ability, nor can it be Countered using Outwit.
But the Giant Stride ability can be Countered using Outwit.
I can understand why the rule was changed, as some giant characters are stuck as giants, and can't change their size. However, when it comes to Hank Pym, his Special Power should have been a bit different than standard Giant Size. Hank Pym should have an Optional form of Giant Size which would allow him change between a Giant fig and a Grounded fig before or after an action was given. The reason being is he does it in the comics all the time. Since DC seems to get more love than Marvel characters from the designers, I'm sure we'll have a DC fig soon with a similar power.
but they can choose to turn off the power. If you turn off the power you loose the symbol and any powers that are with it.
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 15:11
but they can choose to turn off the power. If you turn off the power you loose the symbol and any powers that are with it.
Correct. I should have been more clear, as I was trying to add to what the last guy said about turning off (Cancelling) a Special Power since it was Optional.
But if you choose to Cancel (turn it off), then Hank Pym can't use Giant Stride, which is why I made my argument that Yellowjacket should have a Special Ability to where he wouldn't have to cancel his special power to shrink down.
Steelmage2000
09/12/2009, 16:07
is the power you are referring to.
Since the Giant Size ability is non-optional, you can't choose to Cancel the ability, nor can it be Countered using Outwit.
But the Giant Stride ability can be Countered using Outwit.
I had face a opponent once with Skrull Yellow Jacket and he would cancel his Giant Size ability special power after his turn, so he was normal on my turn. His team slaughted my team. It would be very useful if he can do that.
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 17:17
I had face a opponent once with Skrull Yellow Jacket and he would cancel his Giant Size ability special power after his turn, so he was normal on my turn. His team slaughted my team. It would be very useful if he can do that.
No, he would not be able to do this. He did not follow the Cancel rule correctly.
Fantastic Four Rulebook, Part 3: Powers and Abilities, states:
POWERS paragraph 3
A power is in effect when it appears on the character’s combat dial through the stat slot. All powers are optional unless “non-optional” appears in their description, and are not required to be used during your turn; however, all powers (such as those activated by a specific type of action or attack) are assumed to be in effect during an action unless you cancel it at the beginning of that action. When a power is canceled, it is canceled until the end of that turn and resumes effect at the beginning of the next player’s turn.
So the guy could Cancel his Giant Man Special Power at the end of his turn, but at the beginning of your turn, it would no longer be Cancelled. He got over on you, but don't feel bad, as awhile back a guy got me on it too, and it didn't sound right, so I looked into it.
You cancel powers when an action is given (one of your actions, or one of your opponent's).
Steelmage2000's opponent would just need to cancel Yellowjacket's special power as soon as Steelmage2000 gives an action to one of his character, et voilà.
Steelmage2000
09/12/2009, 18:26
No, he would not be able to do this. He did not follow the Cancel rule correctly.
Fantastic Four Rulebook, Part 3: Powers and Abilities, states:
So the guy could Cancel his Giant Man Special Power at the end of his turn, but at the beginning of your turn, it would no longer be Cancelled. He got over on you, but don't feel bad, as awhile back a guy got me on it too, and it didn't sound right, so I looked into it.
I thought there was something wrong, well rep to you for giving me this info and heads up!
Also I cannot see to load your website right on IE 8, is there a particular browser that works the best for your website?
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 21:02
You cancel powers when an action is given (one of your actions, or one of your opponent's).
Steelmage2000's opponent would just need to cancel Yellowjacket's special power as soon as Steelmage2000 gives an action to one of his character, et voilà.
Bingo. Just like with Charge. If you attack an opponent figure who has Charge and you hit rolling doubles, your opponent can't take knockback, because he didn't state he was canceling Charge for that action. In some situations, especially if I'm being based my multiple enemies, especially if they all have 0 Range and no move and attack abilites, I'll cancel my Charge when the first attack against me is made. If he hits me and rolls doubles, I get knocked back and out of range of his other figure(s).
One thing that you save you a bizillion gazillion times! If your opponent attacks with a figure that has Stealth and is in Hindering Terrain, and he misses, then he states that he is going to use another figure with Probability Control so his Stealthed figure can re-roll the attack, just tell him, "You can't because you can't draw Line of Fire, because your character is Stealthed. Your opponent would have had to declare that he is turning of his figure's Stealth before he declares the attack. This same rule also applies to the Batman Team Ability. An ally with the Batman TA can't draw LOF unless he Cancels the target's Batman TA. This one will get you out of hundreds of sticky situations, because many players, if not most, forget to Cancel Powers or Abilities before an action is given.
Also I cannot see to load your website right on IE 8, is there a particular browser that works the best for your website?
Uh-oh, I better look into that. I don't have I.E., so I haven't tested it with that browser. I'll definitely look into the problem and get it fixed.
I know Mozilla, Firefox, Opera, and Safari, and some of the lesser used browsers all work well with my site, so if you have any of those, it should work for you. But a website should work well with any browser, so I'll get on it as soon as possible and see what is going wrong. I apologize for the inconvenience.
This same rule also applies to the Batman Team Ability. An ally with the Batman TA can't draw LOF unless he Cancels the target's Batman TA.
Not exactly. The Batman Ally team ability states the character may use Stealth, but doesn't possess it. So, for every action, a Batman Ally character can choose to use Stealth or not, but it doesn't need to cancel the team ability when it chooses to not use Stealth (the choice must be made when the action is declared).
To take an example : say you have Batman (who possesses the Batman Ally team ability, and who's on hindering terrain) and Nightwing (on one of his Perplex clicks) in your team, while Scarlet Witch (Avengers Super Rare) is on your opponent's team. Nightwing uses Perplex on Batman (to up his damage), so for this action Bats chooses to not use Stealth. Next action, Batman attacks Scarlet Witch, and chooses to use Stealth, so that Scarlet Witch cannot make him re-roll with her Probability Control.
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 21:57
Not exactly. The Batman Ally team ability states the character may use Stealth, but doesn't possess it. So, for every action, a Batman Ally character can choose to use Stealth or not, but it doesn't need to cancel the team ability when it chooses to not use Stealth (the choice must be made when the action is declared).
To take an example : say you have Batman (who possesses the Batman Ally team ability, and who's on hindering terrain) and Nightwing (on one of his Perplex clicks) in your team, while Scarlet Witch (Avengers Super Rare) is on your opponent's team. Nightwing uses Perplex on Batman (to up his damage), so for this action Bats chooses to not use Stealth. Next action, Batman attacks Scarlet Witch, and chooses to use Stealth, so that Scarlet Witch cannot make him re-roll with her Probability Control.
Thank you for the clarification, rep given. I was using an old wording from an older PAC. I don't play DC figs, so I wasn't up to date. I printed out the HeroClix Unified Team Ability Reference chart that somebody made and I have all the current wordings of TA now.
Here is the Batman Ally TA I was quoting:
Batman Ally: Any line of fire drawn to this character that passes through hindering terrain, including the square that this character occupies, is treated as though it has been drawn through blocking terrain.
So when you stated that the Batman Ally TA allowed Stealth, I thought, "Huh, maybe I have an older version." and lo and behold I did.
Fantastic Four Rule Book, Powers and Abilities; Team Abilities, p 18 states:
Canceling team abilities. All team abilities are optional and can be canceled. However, if a team ability is not canceled at the beginning of an action, it is in effect during the action. When a team ability is canceled, it remains canceled until the end of the turn and resumes effect at the beginning of the next player’s turn.
Some team abilities require that a character be given an action to activate them, or activate when you give a character a specific type of action. To use one of these team abilities, the player must declare that the character is being given an action to activate the team ability or that the action given to the character will activate a team ability.
An example would be the Avengers free movement. It requires a Move Action to use, so the player would have to declare that he is utilizing his Avengers TA when moving, or it would be just a standard move action and would count towards his actions for that turn.
So Drunky is right on the money on the Batman Ally TA. The Batman Ally TA would not need to be be Cancelled.
But for clarification, would a figure with the Batman Ally TA have to declare he is using Stealth, since he doesn't actually possess the Stealth Power?
Steelmage2000
09/12/2009, 22:54
Uh-oh, I better look into that. I don't have I.E., so I haven't tested it with that browser. I'll definitely look into the problem and get it fixed.
I know Mozilla, Firefox, Opera, and Safari, and some of the lesser used browsers all work well with my site, so if you have any of those, it should work for you. But a website should work well with any browser, so I'll get on it as soon as possible and see what is going wrong. I apologize for the inconvenience.
Lucky I have Firefox (I use both Firefox and IE). I figure it maybe that way but I wanted to wait for your response. Nice website.
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 23:04
Lucky I have Firefox (I use both Firefox and IE). I figure it maybe that way but I wanted to wait for your response. Nice website.
Thank you, it's far from finished though.
When WizKids went down I thought it would be good idea to gather and save as much of the documents as I could find so people could still have access to them.
I'm missing a bunch of stuff though. I need to find SuperGENE's Powers and Abilities Compatibility List. I only have a hard copy, and his site is down. If I have to, I have an OCR program on my 'puter and I could always scan the document and convert it to a .pdf, but that's a lot of work, and I'm always busy.
I'm also missing some of the older PACs I believe. One of these days when I get around to it, I'll probably add all the DC stuff as well, 'cuz right now it's just all the general HeroClix and Marvel stuff.
Steelmage2000
09/12/2009, 23:43
Thank you, it's far from finished though.
When WizKids went down I thought it would be good idea to gather and save as much of the documents as I could find so people could still have access to them.
I'm missing a bunch of stuff though. I need to find SuperGENE's Powers and Abilities Compatibility List. I only have a hard copy, and his site is down. If I have to, I have an OCR program on my 'puter and I could always scan the document and convert it to a .pdf, but that's a lot of work, and I'm always busy.
I'm also missing some of the older PACs I believe. One of these days when I get around to it, I'll probably add all the DC stuff as well, 'cuz right now it's just all the general HeroClix and Marvel stuff.
I have a copy of that list, maybe you could PM me.
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/12/2009, 23:53
I have a copy of that list, maybe you could PM me.
That would be awesome! If you like, you could just send it my e-mail address at vga_disciple@comcast.net
I'd be happy to add it to my HeroClix resource page since SuperGENE no longer appears to be active.
Thank you a bunch!
Steelmage2000
09/13/2009, 22:37
That would be awesome! If you like, you could just send it my e-mail address at vga_disciple@comcast.net
I'd be happy to add it to my HeroClix resource page since SuperGENE no longer appears to be active.
Thank you a bunch!
I sent them, did you get them?
VGA d1sc1pL3
09/13/2009, 22:46
I sent them, did you get them?
I sure did, thanks a bunch. I sent you a reply back to your e-mail. These are both a little bit older than the version I have, but I can still post the newest version until I can the latest version.
Thank you very much for your kindness and for sending them to me. I appreciate it.
mecimcim
10/16/2010, 11:30
I need clarification..can yellowjacket cancell galactus team ability
I need clarification..can yellowjacket cancell galactus team ability
He can now, because they changed the wording of the Power Cosmic. It used to specifically say the TA could not be countered, but now it only says that characters using the team ability do not take pushing damage and cannot have their powers countered, and the TA cannot be used by wild cards.
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