Second Dial Initiative: Captain America Exp. IC

[saturnflight]

Which Captain America dial do YOU think best replaces the 47 point Experienced from Infinity Challenge?

Dial #1: Hit n' Fade
#ic068 E Captain America
Team: Avengers
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 47
Keywords: Avengers, Martial Artist, SHIELD
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Dial #2: Fearless Leader#ic068 E Captain America
Team: Avengers
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 47
Keywords: Avengers, Matial Artist, SHIELD
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Dial #3: Purple#ic068 E Captain America
Team: Avengers
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 47
Keywords: Avengers, Martial Artist, SHIELD
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[saturnflight]

Wizkids made it look like this. Which of the above do you think makes for a fitting replacement?

ic068 E Captain America
Team: Avengers
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 47
Keywords: Avengers, Martial Artist, S.H.I.E.L.D.
m-boota-fistd-starburstg-starburst89162781526714266141561315512145121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

This poll is a product of the Second Dial Project: Infinity War. Our goal is to have designers here on the Realms submit redesigned dials for all the pieces of Infinity Challenge (okay, maybe not LEs) so that people can switch in new dials and find some new love for their old pieces. This project began after the collapse of Pinata's bid for heroclix, and now with the celebrated return of clix with Hammer of Thor, we're still looking at this project as a fun addition to the game we all love.

Designers create a dial that must adhere to all the information that is already printed on the dial top. That means that point cost, range, flight, etc. are all accounted for. We also strive to keep the same keywords (to avoid additional confusion).

Now, we’ve taken the highest ranked dials based on the Designer Jam Thread found here (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=260758) and present them to you so that the dial we go with represents what you think is most balanced and interesting.

Please vote for each experience level. The polls for R and V are here:
Rookie: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=261871
Veteran: http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=262044

Also, please leave comments if you think the dial you voted for could still use a final tweak. We want what we create to be directly from the community.

When the project is complete, we hope to see this re-done set included in the Heroclix Online game, as well as having the dials available to be printed and placed inside your old clix.

Will your judge allow these new dials into your regular events? Will WK? We hope so, and the more support we show for the project, the more likely it can be. And your support also means we’ll move on to Hypertime (Second Dial: Multiverse) and see new designs for more of your favorite characters.

[jackstar7]

I gotta admit that I like no special powers or traits on these. And they all have some good aspects of Cap in them.

[anonym0use]

I only wish I knew which R version won the first poll, so Icould make an informed decision about an REV progression.

[saturnflight]

Well, it looks right now to be a split between For America! and Crowd Control. Unless a clear, decisive winner emerges, I think we'll end up combining the two into one dial that encompasses elements of both, as I don't feel that right now we could call one clearly more popular than the other. (Hint: Outwit is likely not going to be a part of a combined dial, if I have any say in it.)

[Crow]

Cap strikes me as more of a close combat expert than a Flurry type, and the Running Shot version here has a first click that's overpowering considering the point cost. Purple all the way.

[Bubblehead]

I'm going to say Purple too.


Edit: Reason why- Cap just doesn't seem like a Stealth guy! He gets in the mix and I think that third dial is better for what an IC Cap should be, powers-wise.

[RookieBatman]

I voted #3. I very nearly voted #1, because of the 17 defense (I think anything less is just not doing just to his shield). But I think the CCE is deserved, and I'm just not a fan of RS for Cap.

[jackstar7]

I did vote Hit n Fade because I think the damage output seems more reasonable to me.

[Bat-Phreak]

Dial #2: Fearless Leader
-
I like the multiple clicks of Leadership and a few clicks of Stealth.

[saturnflight]

This poll has been so back and forth; I think each dial has been in the lead at some point!

[wintremute]

I like that the dials incorporate something to show his soldier skills: Flurry, Combat Reflexes, and Close Combat Expert.


Hit n' Fade is a good idea, but it's not Cap. He doesn't throw the shield to start, but he does charge in (see Fearless Leader and Purple). If the running shot was changed to charge, I'd like Hit n' Fade the best. I can't believe that RS is such a deal-breaker, but when compared to the other dials it just is.


Fearless Leader does the best job of expanding from the original dial. It keeps all of the original flavor (Leadership, Stealth, Energy Shield/Deflection, Outwit), but sprinkles in the flavor of Captain America (Defend, Willpower, Flurry). I also think the two dips to 1 damage is keeping it closer to the 47 points than the all 3's and 2's of the other dials. The ONLY thing I'd suggest for this dial is perhaps changing out that 15/Willpower defense to be 15/Combat Reflexes.


Purple was micrometers away from getting my vote. I like the charge, willpower, Close Combat Expert and Combat Reflexes. I like the deep leadership, as it reflects the original dial. But at the same time, I think that's a penalty on that original dial. How often do you use the late game leadership dice rolls? Maybe he helps for feats or something, but to me it seems a waste beyone the first few clicks. The biggest drawback to me was the two straight clicks of CCE (for a possible 4 damage). That seems too much. Perhaps drop the 2nd damage value to 1.



Final Verdict, I voted for Fearless Leader, but if Hit n' Fade could change that RS to Charge I'd change my vote faster than Cap was shot.

Again, these are some really good dials. I'm really proud of the members that came up with these.

[bullseye100]

I like #3 purple...

[longinux]

Love the black bolt sig....lol, classic. Got more issues than readers digest, as my friend says.

[Prof. Aragorn]

Hit n Fade matches 47 the closest with Purple being a bit low and Fearless Leader being too high in cost.

I prefer the stats on Hit n Fade as well. Experienced Cap should have some 17s and 10 attacks. I don't like the 6 clicks though.

It's a tough choice between Hit n Fade and Fearless Leader, but I think the fact that Fearless Leader is closer to 54 points and has some 1 damages and a 9/16 for a starting combat value I can't in good faith give it an Experienced Captain America approval.

I like the simplicity of Purple, but it plays more like a rookie dial.

[bill4935]

Dial #1 is too strong!

So I voted for #2.

In all honesty, I like the original E IC Captain America for the opening Stealth. He makes for a good Contingency Plan piece.

[batman fan]

hit n' fade all the way the energy shield deflection and 17 defences are spot on its nice to have a cap with running shot they should of made 1 by now

[phantomrider]

[QUOTE=saturnflight;4357294]Which Captain America dial do YOU think best replaces the 47 point Experienced from Infinity Challenge?

Dial #1: Hit n' Fade

i like this dial th most and let me tell you why, this dial alouse you to 1st of all move and attack, witch is a must for cap.
2nd, he can move in to hindering turrane and have a 20 defence agenst ranged attacks, not a bad bonus for a guy that if you have protected on he can take the push and get stealth and will power.
3rd, the feats that can go on him are awesome, contingency plan and inspireing command for his opening leadership, thunderbolts can be a life saver at times with its ATA and alpha flight is also a good one if you just want to have something when you cant add any more feats for an avengers team that just needs that extra umff some times in a fight.

dont get me wrong, the other two dials are good in my opinion, i just like this one the most.

[The Charlatan]

I picked Hit and Fade, partially because I felt it was the most logical progression from from rookie pick, Crowd Control. Dial 2 was certainly tempting though.

[jackstar7]

Very cool to see no breakaway winner in this one. I hope the designers feel validated. Great work!

I certainly hope for lots more voting.

[Repulsor rage]

Im gonna say #1 because he seems the most accurate representation of a SHIELD Captain America.

[batjester]

I like certain elements on all the dails, and dislike certain elements on all the dials lol.

I ended up voting for Purple. The only thing I'm not really hot on for that dial is all the end dial Leadership. It's an expensive power (and might very well shoot the dial over the points) and it's uses are more limited late game. I like the CCE on Cap - even with 2 damage (I can imagine getting smacked with the his shield can do some major damage). All the stats seem about right for an experienced Cap that's 47pts.

[grey_zealot]

Voted "Runner" for the Rookie.
Voted "Hit & Fade" for this Experienced.

Reasoning: I like them all so far, but the Running Shot dials give me something I'm seen enough of in comics that we haven't really seen done in HeroClix.

(Plenty of stories, often set up with the villains in the process of committing thier crimes, the shield zinging in from out of nowhere before we see Cap enter. Not just in his solo titles; he's often ordered I.M. or Thor to close in on major target while he works his way around to the opposition's leaders or the "Doomsday Device of the Week".)

Also, the RS versions would give me options in how I want to play him.

We've seen plenty of Cap in HC with Charge and a close-combat focus.

(Still, I like all the dials so far. I hope WizKids is taking a good look at all these ways to represent Cap.)

[Manchine]

None......

[saturnflight]

It's also helpful to have critiques; after all, just because a dial is voted for doesn't mean that vision of it will be the final. Manchine, if you don't like any, then please let us know why, so your input can be considered when finalizing the dial.

[webhead76]

I'd go with the Fearless Leader, that just screams CAPTAIN America - he's the big dog, the top leader of the Avengers. Cool dial ideas.

[Maniac_nmt]

Purple has way to much leadership. It's a mostly wasted power after the first two clicks, and only serves to bloat point cost. Rip off the last three clicks of leadership, slap on a click or two or leap/climb and flurry, and bump the willpower clicks to 17, and maybe you are somewhere.

Fearless Leader's attack values are to low (he should open with a 10, and not drop below 8, ditch the third click of leadership, and bump his attack values some).

I personally really want a brilliant tactician capable Cap, but the best of these three is Hit and Fade.

[jackstar7]

Purple has way to much leadership. It's a mostly wasted power after the first two clicks, and only serves to bloat point cost. Rip off the last three clicks of leadership, slap on a click or two or leap/climb and flurry, and bump the willpower clicks to 17, and maybe you are somewhere.

Fearless Leader's attack values are to low (he should open with a 10, and not drop below 8, ditch the third click of leadership, and bump his attack values some).

I personally really want a brilliant tactician capable Cap, but the best of these three is Hit and Fade.

I was hoping you'd weigh in...(thanks for the feedback here!) but keep in mind for a BT-able Cap, it might be best to wait for the Vet...

[wintremute]

None......

A word of advice:

If you're rude don't even bother.

[WakandaMan]

I plugged these into the ole point cost generator to see how they would come out.


Dial #1: Hit n' Fade = 50pts


Dial #2: Fearless Leader = 70pts


Dial #3: Purple = 54pts

The extra click of life and more expensive powers on #2 put it way out of whack on the point scale. The other two are prety good, but only #1 is inside the comfortable 10% wiggle room.

[Manchine]

It's also helpful to have critiques; after all, just because a dial is voted for doesn't mean that vision of it will be the final. Manchine, if you don't like any, then please let us know why, so your input can be considered when finalizing the dial.

Not enough outwit on any of them. Cap should have outwit and a lot of it (just as much outwit as he does Leadership). Oh and the points are way to low except one guy. Exp version should be about 80 points while the Vet should be 100 and rookie 60 points. Plus there is no Invuln/impervious. His attack isn't high enough and he should have 2 bolts.

[WakandaMan]

Manchine old buddy....I don't think you understand what the goal is here. Try reading the first post properly.

They're using the old IC dialtops with all the info that is on it (pt cost, TA, range) and making a new more modernly balanced dial for them.


And I disagree with you about Outwit as well. I don't mind it on Cap, but I certainly don't feel it is necessary for him. :)

[Manchine]

Manchine old buddy....I don't think you understand what the goal is here. Try reading the first post properly.

They're using the old IC dialtops with all the info that is on it (pt cost, TA, range) and making a new more modernly balanced dial for them.


And I disagree with you about Outwit as well. I don't mind it on Cap, but I certainly don't feel it is necessary for him. :)

With the Vet I figured it out. =)

Not enough outwit on any of them. Cap should have outwit and a lot of it (just as much outwit as he does Leadership). Oh and the points are way to low except one guy. Exp version should be about 80 points while the Vet should be 100 and rookie 60 points. Plus there is no Invuln/impervious. His attack isn't high enough and he should have 2 bolts.

I see now that these are going by the points of IC. So partial ignore this. =)