Tactics for Kang

[ALC Marauder]

This is in part a continuation of a previous thread (20 worst figs.) With a different focus. I made some comments on Kang based on what other people have told me and was corrected, (rightly when I thought about it), for judging a book by its cover. I am going to give Kang a couple of chances.

To make sure I give Kang (and myself!) a fair shot at success I would like some advice on building a team around a Kang for 300 pts and or 500 pts.

Also some advice on how to play him effectively would be very usefull.

Problems with Kang are also welcome but please keep it constructive. (Kang sucks is not a constructive remark however true or untrue it may be.)

[phonixinmi]

I would advise that in a 300 point game you have a taxi for him and 2 barrier pieces to protect him for after Kang fires his range attacks.

I would also recommend a "tie up" piece on your team that can occupy your opponent's heavy hitter for a couple of turns so Kang can fire away. One of the best "tie up" pieces for me has been rookie Whirlwind. For 20 points, it has 6 clicks of life that it can absorb. Which means that if you don't push him, it's likely that it's going to take at least 2 of your opponent's attack actions in order to ko it. While that's happening, you can be taking down his big hitter or other valuable support pieces.

[guanoe]

a good tie up fig is rookie quicksilver.

He has good 12 movement and a free movement due to his affliation to the brotherhood. All for 18 pts.

[Teletran]

ALCMarauder,

I don't want to assume anything so were you thinking of any specific version of Kang?

DCFan#1's comments got me thinking again and I would like to try Kang amidst the negativity towards it.

In line with a post I read about, the challenge was making the crummiest team then when the battle starts, you exchange teams with your opponent. Whoever wins using the other person's team is the winner.

I got the idea of giving off the Vet Kang, Constrictor, and Hobgoblin to my opponent.... but since DCFan#1 claims that Kang is terrifying when used skillfully, I'd like to know how to really ensure victory by passing him off to my opponent. (same to me if my opponent gives me a Kang)

I've always considered Kang to be one of the Avengers great enemies and would really want to know how to use him.

Please do not think I'm being sarcastic in my post. (especially on the crummiest team theme) But if I'm convinced, I would not dare give Kang to my opponent who might be skillful enough to use him.

I agree with phonixinmi with his suggestion of a barrier and a taxi, that should make it hard for the opponent to base Kang.... but doing three points of damage a turn really isn't anything spectacular at all.

[warden]

I've only played Kang once. It was a 500 point team:

190 V Kang
163 U Nightmare
147 V Hulk
---
500


You can use Nightmare to enhance Kang's attacks and act as a bodyguard while Hulk goes out to cause trouble and tie up the opposition.

This team gets screwed by outwit but that just shows how broken outwit is.

Andrew

[bakija]

Well, ignoring for the time being that Kang is, well, just too darned expensive, let's look at what he is good at:

-Good stats. Kang has pretty consistient high attack and defense numbers, as well as good speed. They don't drop significantly as he takes damage.

-Invulnerability. Always good, although he loses it quickly, and trades it for the much less useful deflection.

-Incapacitate. The only guy I can think of, off the top of my head, who has range 10, dual attack incapcitate early--granted, he has to push for a click to get to it, but that isn't that difficult with his range 10 RCE attack.

-Phasing. If you are using V Kang, you get phasing. This doesn't actually help *that* much as he needs to get taxied around to be useful, but if nothing else, he can get his old lady's car out of a bad area without trying hard, and he's pretty useful on an indoor map and he isn't real concerned about the rooftops outside.

-RCE. Certainly a mixed blessing--if his RCE is getting outwitted, his Invulnerability probably isn't. On the other hand, once he gets based, he's all over.

How would it be useful to use Kang? Well, all things being equal, I suspect that the best bet (phasing notwithstanding) is to get R Kang--he loses a point of damage on his first click (no huge issue, as you want to push off that quickly anyway), a click of invulnerability, and his stats are a bit less effective, but not much. He also loses phasing, but that isn't a big deal, as he is going to be taxied anyway. On the up side, he still has a range 10$$, incapactiate on his second click, and he doesn't pay points for questionable team abilities. Thus, R Kang gets you most of the usefulness of V Kang, but saves you 57 points.

What are you gonna do with R Kang? Taxi him around, push him early to get off 2, range 10 RCE attacks with an attack of 12, and then use him to dual incapacitate a lot from range 10. Use terrain to your advantage (i.e. stay on roof tops to help avoid getting based). For a 200 point R Kang force, I'd be inclied to get:

-R Kang (133)
-E Wasp (33)
-R Yellowjecket (22)
-R Hydra Medic (12)

You get the free moving Kang assault force and a mobile medi-vac unit. If you are less concerned about getting to exactly 200 (like, say, you are using this as part of a 300 point team), swap YJ and R Medic for R Vulture and V AIM Medic (probably better in any case...).

As part of a 300 point team, you get 100 points to beef up your combat capabilities. Heck, I might go with:

-R Kang (133)
-E Annihilus (103)
-E Wasp (33)
-V Aim Medic (17)
-E Skrull Commando (14)

You get the dual long ranged, invulnerable hitters of Kang and Annhilius (who gets RS and gets to give Kang +1 to hit for being Hydra). E Wasp is back up and medivac. E Skrull is surprisingly tough for 14 points, and, well, makes Annihilus a Skrull. Have Annhilus cary Kang from roof top to roof top, taking a running shot when possible while Kang pounds folks from afar. If nothing else, Kang only needs a 5 to hit Firelord at range 10...

-Peter

[Phil Dixon]

Originally posted by warden
This team gets screwed by outwit but that just shows how broken outwit is. Yeah, right. You take only three (bad idea) of the most inefficient figures in the game (very bad idea) into a 500 point game, and when you lose it's because Outwit is "broken".

[Thorgrin]

Uhm.... Nightmare can't enchance Kang's attack unless you don't want to do RCE. Might be ok since he can target 2 people and do 2 damage each, but as far as hitting one person, he can't enhance Kang's damage to 5.

I could easily beat your team without using outwit.

100 pt sentinel x5

Basically go up, capture your guys, take them to the end of the map. Game over. Nothing to do with outwit there.

Barring that...

Vet Dr. Strange
Vet Cyclops
Exp Wasp
Vet Rogue
Vet Juggernaut
Vet Jean Grey
etc,etc,etc....

3 figures for a 500 point game = poor planning. Don't blame outwit for bad team building skills....

Originally posted by warden
I've only played Kang once. It was a 500 point team:

190 V Kang
163 U Nightmare
147 V Hulk
---
500


You can use Nightmare to enhance Kang's attacks and act as a bodyguard while Hulk goes out to cause trouble and tie up the opposition.

This team gets screwed by outwit but that just shows how broken outwit is.

Andrew

[bakija]

Thorgrin wrote:
>>Uhm.... Nightmare can't enchance Kang's attack unless you don't want to do RCE. Might be ok since he can target 2 people and do 2 damage each, but as far as hitting one person, he can't enhance Kang's damage to 5.>>

Apparently you can enhance Kang's dual incapacitate attack, so you give them an action counter *and* a point of damage (and then one more if you push them). I'm yet to see this confirmed anywhere (like in the FAQ), but the SHIELD/EE precident would seem to take precidence here.

Anyone?

-Peter

[Thorgrin]

I would say it would. In fact, in the FAQ it says if you roll a critical hit, you do a point of damage. Nightmare is a bit pricey if that's your whole goal, though. a Dr. Strange (pick one) would be a better option AND would be a taxi for Kang AND costs a like 100 points less (for a rookie or exp, it's pretty close to a 100).

Still the problem with a 3 person team is just that. 3 people. You're almost either always clearing or always pushing. It'd be so easy to kill the current 3 person team that warden put up that the ways are infinite. Not saying it wouldn't be fun or anything, but to blame that team for not succeeding due to outwit is a joke. It just makes that team go down faster is all.

The teams you put up would at least be challenging and a lot harder to deal with.

[bakija]

Thorgrin wrote:
>>Still the problem with a 3 person team is just that. 3 people.>>

Oh, yeah, I'm not, like, defending the idea of a 3 figure, 500 point team. Just the general idea of enhancement and Kang.

:-)

-Peter

[Phantom]

Originally posted by Phil Dixon
Yeah, right. You take only three (bad idea) of the most inefficient figures in the game (very bad idea) into a 500 point game, and when you lose it's because Outwit is "broken".

I’ll agree with you that Outwit isn’t broken (it’s scary, but it’s also a fairly pricey power), but Hulk and Nightmare can both be very effective when used properly. I’m a recent convert to the cause of Nightmare, especially in large-point games (Free Plug for the Arch-Enemies Battle thread!), but Hulk on a good team is always a brute, especially since the most common strategy for dealing with him is to ignore him. “You ignore Hulk? Why puny human try to ignore Hulk. Hmph… Hulk go say hello to pretty doctor ladies hiding in back. Would pretty doctor ladies go to prom with Hulk? No? HULK SMASH!”

Kang’s a nasty piece – 10-12 attack at 10 range with Incapacitate and two arrows is can be brutal. I’ve been looking at using a pair of R/E Mandroids, V Kang, and Spiral on a 300 point team. Between his range, three Shield guys (Spiral using her Doom ability to mimic Shield), and Spiral as a bodyguard, I think this team can cause havoc on Outdoor maps.

[K26dp]

I have to relay something funny that happened in a game I played this weekend.

It was a pretty big four-way battle, 700 points a side. One group was Avengers-themed, one was JLA-themed, one was Darkseid and a bunch of DC baddies, and my group was a superpowered worst-of-Marvel bunch that features Vet Kang, Vet Dr. Doom, Vet Magneto, Exp Ultron, and Vet Dr. Octopus (yeah, I know Ock doesn't really compare, but he fit in point-wise).

Anyway, Kang was doing well, standing on a rooftop and doing some serious damage to Superman and Arcane. Magneto was next to him giving support and a possible method of escape if anyone got too close.

The Key managed to MC Magneto, who promptly used his TK to fling poor Kang to the middle of the board... right into the tightly bunch group of Justice Leaguers. Just the image of that was priceless.

[hoshoko]

I am not a big fan of using an expensive figure, because you limit the number of offensive weapons you have. But, If I really had to make a team with Kang then I would use the Rookie. I wouldn't recommend using more than one 100+ figures. For a 300 team here is a thought:

Kang (R) 133
Wolverine (U) 64 - Best BCF out there
Wasp (E) 33
Vulture (R) 15
AIM Medic (V) 17 - Best Medic out there
Black Panther (E) 36 - or use Black Cat (E) 36
--------------------------------
298 point team

The main weakness of Kang is he only dishes 1 click of damage when he is locked up with another grounded figure. Mr Fantastic actually is a good figure against Kang. If Kang is locked up with Mr. Fantastic he will never be able to do any damage due to toughness/invulnerability, and rolling for breakaway would require a 6 because Placticity. That leaves enough time for your opponent to kill the support figures without having to worry about your main hitter.

Knowing this weakness I would leave Kang protected in the back hopefully on the edge of elevated terrain. I would primarily use RCE but I would look to immobilize any taxi(s) with incapicatate whenever possible. I would use Wolvie and Wasp as a tandem and always have wolvie in hindering terrain. They can march forward and lock up anyone trying to lock up Kang. I would keep Kang, Vulture, and Black Panther close together. Anyone trying to lock up Kang, gets Black Panther's BCF to rip them to shreds, not to mention outwit when needed.

I would still rate this team pretty weak, but at least you have 3 figures that can potentially do 3 or more damage, and 2 taxis. Plus the usual essentials: support and outwit.

[ALC Marauder]

Thanks for all the replies! I am going to give Kang a try this evening (Singapore time) and see what happens. Lots of ideas for a team.

On a seperate issue could you take R Harley Quinn and perplex Kang to 3 attacks?

K26dp Loved the image of Kang flying head first into a mass of JLA. It helps that I am a big JLA fan. Priceless!

[BAKID]

The only thing that Kang really does better than any figure in clix-land is incapacitate really nasty high-point figs. I would go so far as to say Kang might actually be a "Power fig" on a 1000 point team, able to incapacitate Thor AND Vision in a single action.

As far as figures to tie up enemy threats, if you are mixing Marvel and DC, R Solomon Grundy and R Hawkman give you a free moving taxi with charge and 10 speed and a Zombie with 3 clix of 10 attack and 10 clix of life for 80 points total.

In Marvel only I think you need barrier guys to keep kang from getting based, but I have been unsuccessful in doing so thus far in my own Kang experiments. Vet Kang keeps dying after all his supporting cast is massacred by a vastly more numerous and more mobile opposition. I think Kang fares better in Marvel only due to the prevalence of 10-move plus figs in DC

[BAKID]

You can't perplex the arrows/lightning bolts because they aren't a number, they're a symbol.

[ALC Marauder]

"Aaahhh. I now see." Said the blind man. :D

Possibly perplex his damage up? Still seems a lot of points to tie up but might be worth a try. Has anyone out there tried it?

[Phil Dixon]

Originally posted by Phantom
I’ll agree with you that Outwit isn’t broken (it’s scary, but it’s also a fairly pricey power), but Hulk and Nightmare can both be very effective when used properly. I'm sure they're good in last-man-standing friendlies, but in 10-round tournaments, Hulk is too slow.

I think it may be possible to build a good team with Nightmare, but Warden's isn't it. You'd have to make best use of Enhancement, and Warden's team only has one shooter (and no taxis).

[scottcoz]

Originally posted by bakija
... if nothing else, he can get his old lady's car out of a bad area without trying hard....
haha - a Repoman reference? Terrific! Great flick!!

Anyway - I havn't given a whole lot of thought to building good Kang teams, so I don't have a whole lot to add. Just one thing that hasn't been brought up yet.

Pulse Wave. Don't overlook that PW on his first click, and try to build a team to use it to your advantage. When you've got a 12 or 13 attack, your PW is pretty sure to hit everyone within 5 range, and PW CAN be enhanced (or Shield boosted, of course), so if you can get off a 2 damage PW right off the bat, and hit everyone on your opponent's team with it, you'll probably take out his Support and Outwit capabilities.

And, also, the PW on the first click makes him go well with figs that need to "hulk up." Helps you get to Hulk's sweet clicks that much quicker. If you're playing DC/Marvel mixed, I'd recommend using Dove as his taxi - one PW, and she's on her sweetest click, for free without having to push her.

Anyway, please don't take this as a bona fide recommendation for Kang. All I'm saying is that you should take EVERY aspect of the fig into consideration when building a team - try to get the most synergy you possibly can. That high attack value PW should be taken into consideration when building a team around Kang (along with everything else that other people have already mentioned).

[Doctor Strange]

I think a Doombot as a taxi would be nice, but only if you manage to field a SHIELD member too.

The Exp Dove idea is a sound one as well. She could be positioned to make Kang a little more intimidating to base as well.

If you really want to make a 300 point team with rookie Kang, then you are going to need more potent, destracting threats of some form on the table. What they are, I'm not sure. There just needs to be a more inviting target than a 133 point incapicitator.

[Keleko]

Say, since Kang has two ranged shots, can he do two Pulse Waves in a single action? Pulse Wave is a ranged combat action, after all. However, since it isn't targeted, does he still get to use his two target ability with it?

[warden]

Originally posted by Phil Dixon
Yeah, right. You take only three (bad idea) of the most inefficient figures in the game (very bad idea) into a 500 point game, and when you lose it's because Outwit is "broken".

I lost because I wasn't trying to win - I was just having fun with some figures that I'd never played before. I don't normally play 500 points but pulled out Kang and Nightmare, found out that I had 147 points left, went "aha!" and added vet Hulk to make exactly 500.

I could have pulled out the usual suspects to beat my opponent (a comparative newbie) but, as it was, he got a kick out of taking these big guns down while I got some fun out of seeing what I could do with them. And the onlookers got some entertainment from a 500 point team with just 3 figures.

Of course, such a team has more problems than Outwit but that's the worst of them - it trivially removes their best asset - their invulnerability. The fact that this team isn't competitive with more conventional 500 point teams demonstrates that WK's costing is wonky. This is a significant flaw in the game because big figures like Kang cry out to be used - it's sad when you have to play with carp like Hydra medics instead. It's kinda like Magic where players naturally wanted to play with fatties like Force of Nature but were forced to use cheese instead. For many years the best decks had few creatures at all - it was all stasis locks, swords to plowshares, counterspells and the like. Outwit is Heroclix's Counterspell.

Andrew

[Phil Dixon]

Originally posted by warden
I lost because I wasn't trying to win - I was just having fun with some figures that I'd never played before. I don't normally play 500 points but pulled out Kang and Nightmare, found out that I had 147 points left, went "aha!" and added vet Hulk to make exactly 500. Well, yes. I never thought you were playing that team for anything but fun. And that's why you can't take its performance as evidence of anything.

Outwit is just one of the things in the game you have to take into account, like Invulnerability and high Defence values. Any team that can't cope with all three of these factors, and a whole lot else, isn't a strong team.

And if Outwit wasn't readily available, figures that only did 1 or 2 damage would be essentially irrelevant. That's well over half the figures available. I'd rather see Kang marginalised than Spider-Man or Cap.

[warden]

Originally posted by Phil Dixon
And if Outwit wasn't readily available, figures that only did 1 or 2 damage would be essentially irrelevant. That's well over half the figures available. I'd rather see Kang marginalised than Spider-Man or Cap.

Outwit is quite scarce in CT and so figures like She-Hulk and Thing tend to be a good choice in CT sealed - a format that I've been playing quite a bit. But there are other answers to Invulnerability. I ran a CT Marquee recently and the top teams were:

1st: Nightcrawler, White Queen, Human Torch plus mooks
2nd: She-Hulk, Doombot, Black Cat plus mooks
3nd: Two White Queens, Yellowjacket plus mooks

The dominant piece was the White Queen - there were 3 on the table in the final round (1st vs 3rd). She has Mind Control and Psychic Blast. And then there's all those figures with Incapacitate. You should need a special power like this to get through Invulnerability if you only do one or two damage. That's the whole point of the power - you are immune to the level of damage done by thugs and henchmen.

The thing is, when Outwit is readily available, it's a no-brainer. Unlike the other powers, it's range 10; it doesn't require an action or a die roll; you can do it even if you're pushed - it just can't fail. And it's just as easy to outwit Invulnerability as it is to outwit Toughness. It's unbalanced and it's the main reason that Invulnerable figures are rare in winning constructed teams. Figures like Kang.

Andrew

[Phil Dixon]

Originally posted by warden
The thing is, when Outwit is readily available, it's a no-brainer. Unlike the other powers, it's range 10; it doesn't require an action or a die roll; you can do it even if you're pushed - it just can't fail. And it's just as easy to outwit Invulnerability as it is to outwit Toughness. It's unbalanced and it's the main reason that Invulnerable figures are rare in winning constructed teams. Figures like Kang. There are no figures like Kang. Nobody sucks quite the same way he does.

So you're saying Ultron, Annihilus, Doom Vision and Thor don't appear in winning teams? I agree there are some Invulnerable figures that aren't worth playing, but not just because of Outwit. Hulk, Juggernaut, Nightmare and Mr Fantastic manage to be poor choces without any help from the Black Panther.

[Rufio]

Aren't I just so so lucky, i got 2 boosters, and got all 3 versions of kang! Naturally i figured i would try to put him to use, but quickly found his complete lack of use awe inspiring. For rookie kang, i would rather use Brainiac 13, for ex, i would rather spend that for doomsday, and for V i would rather use thor... but thats my take..

[kontrol]

Originally posted by Keleko
Say, since Kang has two ranged shots, can he do two Pulse Waves in a single action? Pulse Wave is a ranged combat action, after all. However, since it isn't targeted, does he still get to use his two target ability with it?
I'm wondering about that myself. That would breathe some new life into him if that is the case. But my guess is since he's not targeting a person to do it, that it doesn't apply to him.

[scottcoz]

Originally posted by Keleko
Say, since Kang has two ranged shots, can he do two Pulse Waves in a single action? Pulse Wave is a ranged combat action, after all. However, since it isn't targeted, does he still get to use his two target ability with it?
Kang doesn't have "two ranged shots" - he can target 2 figs with one single ranged combat action. That's how the arrows work - they allow you to target more than one opposing figure, but it's still a single attack. Therefore, Pulse Wave is redundant with the arrows - what PW does is allow you to target EVERY figure (although within half range) with one ranged combat action.

So, the answer is no - having 2 arrows does NOT allow you to PW twice.

You do bring up an interesting point, though, in regards to the large figs (Sentinal, Sinestro). Since their multi-attack DOES allow two separate attacks (although still with one action), technically one would think that they COULD Pulse Wave twice in one action. If they ever release a big fig with Pulse Wave, I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a hot topic of debate on the forums, and it'll probably need a FAQ update - and I wouldn't be surprised if Wizkids ruled that, in fact, you can't do it (similar to their ruling that you can't Running Shot when using the multi-attack).

[bakija]

So just 'cause it is funny, I played the 300 point Kang team I posted earlier in this thread, and actually won.

My team:
R Kang
E Annihilus
E Yellowjacket
E AIM Medic
E Skrull Warrior

My opponents team:
E Steel
V Nightwing
E Gorilla Grodd
R Hawkman
2 medics of some type

Granted, we were playing Marvel vs DC (Matt wanted to ry out some of his new DC guys), so I had a stat advantage (higher attack and defense), but he had outwit and I didn't. We played on the Marvel outdoor map. I lost E YJ, and he had lost pretty much his whole team at the point when he surrendered.

Kang, well, was certainly useful, but didn't actually do anything that, say, E Klaw couldn't have done. I pushed him early with 2 RCE shots to get onto his double incapacitate click, but never actually used the double incapcitate (although I did use single incapacitate a couple times). Kang never actually got shot, so his invulnerability wasn't much of an issue (Annihilus took all the abuse, but he got fixed up by my medic a couple times). Poor YJ was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and caught the buisness end of Steel's forklift for 5 damage (as she was pretty much all Steel could hit before he got vaporized).

Does this indicate that Kang is good? Not so much, but under favorable conditions, he is servicable and isn't necessarily going to make you lose just for walking him on the field.

Intense? Life of a repo-man's always intense.

-Peter

[Doctor Strange]

Thats cool. It's intersting to see your experiment and how it worked out.

I'm thinking of trying him out in a 500 point, no-medic game and see how he works.

[scottcoz]

Originally posted by bakija
Intense? Life of a repo-man's always intense.

I don't wanna drive, see. The more you drive, the less intelligent you are.

[ALC Marauder]

Hey just had an Idea on a 500 pt. team. R Kang, E Sinestro, R Solomon Grundy, E Booster Gold, R Vulture, R Harley Quinn, and V Checkmate Medic. And you still have 20 pts. to play with! I will have to play test this.

The big issue I see is no outwit. You could replace Harley Quinn with R Black Panther but I am not sure whether it would be worth more than upping Kang's
RCE to 4 pts. of damage.

Thoughts anyone?

[scottcoz]

Originally posted by ALC Marauder
I am not sure whether it would be worth more than upping Kang's
RCE to 4 pts. of damage.

Thoughts anyone?
Here's one - you can't Perplex his damage up to 4 anyway. Perplex and RCE won't combine. If you wanna add to Kang's RCE damage, you gotta use a Shield fig.

[warden]

Originally posted by Phil Dixon
So you're saying Ultron, Annihilus, Doom Vision and Thor don't appear in winning teams? I agree there are some Invulnerable figures that aren't worth playing, but not just because of Outwit. Hulk, Juggernaut, Nightmare and Mr Fantastic manage to be poor choces without any help from the Black Panther.

Figures like Ultron and Annihilus can win but, that's despite the Invulnerability, not because of it. If you look at figures that are Invulnerable but don't have several offsetting advantages, then you find that they are hopeless. Thanos and vet White Queen are good examples.

Andrew

[Phil Dixon]

Originally posted by warden
Figures like Ultron and Annihilus can win but, that's despite the Invulnerability, not because of it.Have you been taking stupid pills? Now you're saying Invulnerability is a drawback?


Originally posted by warden
If you look at figures that are Invulnerable but don't have several offsetting advantages, then you find that they are hopeless. Thanos and vet White Queen are good examples.For God's sake. Figures that can do several things well are better than figures that can't. Is that supposed to be a revelation?

[warden]

Originally posted by Phil Dixon
Now you're saying Invulnerability is a drawback?... Figures that can do several things well are better than figures that can't.[/B]

Yes, Invulnerability is a drawback - because it comes with a huge point handicap. If Thanos didn't have Invulnerability, he'd probably be playable because his cost would be much less (about 50-60 points less according to Retardog & Warlock).

And having lots of powers is not usually a good thing unless they are a combo. Firelord would be better if he didn't have Barrier, Energy Explosion and Pulse Wave - the rookie would only cost about 50 points then.

Andrew

[CapSpalding]

I have become a born-again believer in SHIELD agents and now I aways throw in at least a cheap rookie. Kang, as I'm sure you are well aware, bites when it comes to close combat. So what I would do is use Spiral as a bodyguard. When the action is ranged, she can mimic the SHIELD team ability, when it is close combat she can make whoever walked up very, very sorry.

My 300 point Kang team would look like this:

R KANG (133 pts)
U SPIRAL (56 pts)
E BOOMERANG (34 pts)
V DOOMBOT (38 pts)
R MANDROID (28 pts)
R SHIELD AGENT (10 pts)

'Bot taxies Kang, adopts SHIELD when necessary, and is always there for Leadership (those SHIELD clicks of damage can add up). Mandroid is the catapult for Spiral. Boomy can alternate attacks with Kang, so you can attack every turn without pushing anyone (and Energy Explosion with SHIELD is one of the game's nastier tricks). He can also use Spiral's better attack value using Sin Synd.

[CapSpalding]

Forgot my 500 point Kangfest:

E KANG (178)
V DOC OCK (66)
U SPIRAL (56)
V DOOMBOT (38)
R INVISIBLE GIRL (37)
E BOOMERANG (34)
E VULTURE (20)
R MANDROID x2 (56)
R SHIELD AGENT x2 (20)
V AIM AGENT (15)
E HYDRA OPERATIVE (11)

Kang really becomes a monster if you use Hydra Team Ability to make his attack 14, and unlike Perplex, team abilities cannot be outwitted and do not negate RCE. V AIM agent is an excellent piece for the points if you look at him--he's even excellent when pushed once.

[Thorgrin]

I beg to differ on this one.

Thanos, you have to either concentrate someone with outwit and then pound him down (in which case you'll need 11 points exactly to KO him as he has all but one row of KO). Barring that, his stats stay high AND it takes a lot to bring him down.

Juggernaut is another good example of if someone doesn't have outwit, he'll be in the game a very, very long time.

So what the point value is a little higher. I'd rather have a figure in the game longer than KOd faster. Look at Pyro, Bullseye or anyone else with RCE. You put an invulnerable figure on them and they are toast. Doesn't sound like a drawback to me.

As far as firelord goes, he's fine as is. 66 points for a figure that can do 5 points of damage is good enough. Do we really need a 50 point figure that can do that? His other abilities are just icing on the cake and ya know what, sometimes that barrier does come in handy. I've rarely used pulsewave, granted, but that's because my medics patch him pretty quick.

Originally posted by warden


Yes, Invulnerability is a drawback - because it comes with a huge point handicap. If Thanos didn't have Invulnerability, he'd probably be playable because his cost would be much less (about 50-60 points less according to Retardog & Warlock).

And having lots of powers is not usually a good thing unless they are a combo. Firelord would be better if he didn't have Barrier, Energy Explosion and Pulse Wave - the rookie would only cost about 50 points then.

Andrew

[ALC Marauder]

CapSpalding I like those teams you posted but no medics? What was the thinking on that? Just curious.

I know my medics rarely seem to contribute much, but when they do come through it makes a huge difference. Am I underutilizing my points taking a medic? I did find I did better when taking only one medic rather than two but to cut them out altogether seems drastic.

[CapSpalding]

Originally posted by ALC Marauder
CapSpalding I like those teams you posted but no medics? What was the thinking on that? Just curious.

I know my medics rarely seem to contribute much, but when they do come through it makes a huge difference. Am I underutilizing my points taking a medic? I did find I did better when taking only one medic rather than two but to cut them out altogether seems drastic.

To be honest, it was mostly force of habit--me and the guy I usually play with don't use medics most of the time to make a quicker game. You can sub the AIM agent for Hydra medic, however.

[ALC Marauder]

Thanks for the clarification.

Just tried Kang and ugh did I get my head handed to me. I took R Kang, R Dove, E Booster Gold, V Boomerang, V Checkmate medic and Quicksilver.

My opponet used his Vet. Klaw to trade shots with Kang at long range and used R. Vulture to pull Klaw out when he was damaged. My exact thought at the time as he is using 105 pts to tie up 179 pts. I'm going to get my but kicked. It didn't help that I had a line of three oponents for Boomerang and rolled a four and missed them all.
I wasn't doing to bad trading Booster Gold, and Boomerang for his medic, Yellowjacket and heavy damage to Klaw. Then he got Wolfsbane in and killed Kang with 5 pts. of damage, (he was weakened in the firefight with Klaw). What is sad is he didn't even need Scarlet Witch to alter the roll.
I have to admit that his stats stayed high for most of his dial but he just lacked staying power for the points. Only doing 3 damage also was a huge disadvantage. 4 and I would have had an oportunity to take out Klaw before he was healed.

I am going to give him another shot but I am very disapointed so far.:mad:

[Joe Kerr]

I thought of something last night, it's probably been said before but... V or E Kang with U Nightmare would make a nasty pulsewave. Nightmare would be protected from the 2 damage as long as you didn't roll a critical. Of course you will have to be playing a really high point game.

[CapSpalding]

Sorry to hear about the outcome, ALC. Nowyou are seeing why people (me included) hate to play Kang. I always use the E Boomerang over the Vet because his attack is mediocre, but with the E you can throw in V Bullseye or, as I suggested earlier, a Spiral. He becomes a very effective but ultimately disposable figure. I may try out my own Kang team suggestion this weekend; if so, i'll let you know how it went.

[hoshoko]

Originally posted by ALC Marauder
Thanks for the clarification.

Just tried Kang and ugh did I get my head handed to me. I took R Kang, R Dove, E Booster Gold, V Boomerang, V Checkmate medic and Quicksilver.

My opponet used his Vet. Klaw to trade shots with Kang at long range and used R. Vulture to pull Klaw out when he was damaged. My exact thought at the time as he is using 105 pts to tie up 179 pts. I'm going to get my but kicked. It didn't help that I had a line of three oponents for Boomerang and rolled a four and missed them all.
I wasn't doing to bad trading Booster Gold, and Boomerang for his medic, Yellowjacket and heavy damage to Klaw. Then he got Wolfsbane in and killed Kang with 5 pts. of damage, (he was weakened in the firefight with Klaw). What is sad is he didn't even need Scarlet Witch to alter the roll.
I have to admit that his stats stayed high for most of his dial but he just lacked staying power for the points. Only doing 3 damage also was a huge disadvantage. 4 and I would have had an oportunity to take out Klaw before he was healed.

I am going to give him another shot but I am very disapointed so far.:mad:

I'm sorry you lost too, but I like your stubborness. Why did you use Rookie Dove, she can't fly, has 0 range, and when she locks up base to base she can't take away the ranged attack. You have a taxi for boomerang and none for Kang - uggg.

I think Kang has less of a chance in a mixed tourney(dc and marvel). You're going to see people use Batman or Nightwing not to mention black cat E. In this case, you won't be able to used RCE with the tam ability and most likely have RCE outwitted or they will just lock you up. So even more kudos to you - for even trying. But hey it's just for fun? You should probably get the fellowship in my book for not being cheap by using a batman ally or a firelord cheese.

I'm betting you will get your booty stomped if you use Kang again, if your opponents are good. No offense. Personally, my mouth would water if I saw an opponent with Kang, because all your army points are vested in him.

[ALC Marauder]

Oops! My opponent and I both missed the fact that R Dove doesn't fly! I was using her to Taxi Kang all over the place! It would not have made much difference I would have pulled out the verteran Doombot instead.

Wait a minute! Actually it would have helped. The points freed up could have upgraded my Quicksilver to something more potent. Like a Black Cat that could have allowed a reroll on a critical Boomerang attack! Or a pair of veteran shield snipers. Hmm. I will have to rethink this a bit and playtest it.

[the itsy bit]

Kang should be used with S.H.I.E.L.D. enhancers (snipers/medics).
Ok they are good guys and Kang is a bad guy, but If you use Kang you've got take any advantage you can get !

they are especially nasty with his 2 targets.
having someone bodyguarding Kang helps too (for when he gets based) like V Sabretooth(charge!!) and a taxi to get that critical first shot in !

I don't feel as cheap also when I use E FL and V Kang (only 1 I have) on thesame team (cheap and overcosted balance eachother out ;) ).

[Pikowa]

I'm not tottally Sure if This is Possible but for 500 Pts, Psshaw! Use a Low Green Lantern Corps. Person, 2 Telekinesis People, Again Low, V Anniluhus, V KAng. Bam Army. GL CorpsBrings 'em out, Let's Say like 5, Throw 'em 10, V Annihulus Running Shot 4, Shoot 3, Kang, Shoot 2 or 3 (Not sure how many arrows) with RCE. and if anyone gets close, (Which Like only Hulk Will if even) Use Anniuhlus to Too use MAsters of Evil To hit one Guy, And Then Kang can either Also MOE, Or Pulse waves to hit a whole bunch. I'm pretty Sure I saw that once against V Sinestro and E Sentinel. 3 turns people, 3 turns.