Range of 1?

[Kiften]

Hey all....
What would happen if you had a range of 1? I was thinking....what if you gave Hulk pulse wave, with a range of 1? Why would I do such a thing you ask? Well it's to simulate how he could take on many enemies at once....if weenies were ganging up on him, he would do his "thunderclap"....and unfortunately there's no way to picture this right now. I think Pulse Wave with a range of 1 would be a great way to simulate this....
biggs

[jolt]

I seem to recall reading (somewhere), that a character who has Smoke Cloud, but 0 range, has to place the cloud markers adjacent to the figure. I'm assuming it would be the same thing with a 0 range Pulse Wave; it would hit all adjacent squares. So I guess in that regard there's no difference between a range of 1 and 0. I wish I could remember where I had read that but the voices in my head confirm it so it must be true :)


jolt

[Veggiehater]

Sorry to burst your bubble but unless the Hulk is on a different elevation or all his opponents are flyers, he wouldn't be able to shoot the pulse wave.

No range attacks in B2B for grounded figs remember? ;)

VH

[sleepwalker23]

Well one problem with that idea would be that pulse wave has to be a range attack, if there is someone adjacent to you you can't do a pulse wave. Yet another reason why pulse wave is so useless.

[jolt]

I forgot about PW having to be a ranged attack. You'd have to house rule that PW can be close combat attack (or affect only fliers).

jolt

[Mr. Pilkington]

Alternately Hulk could have Poison and be assumed to "thunderclap" automatically at the beginning of his turn. The main problem for Hulk in this example is that Poison, Pulse Wave and Super Strength are all Attack powers, so he could only have one at a time.

As for Smoke Cloud, it has been ruled that a figure with a range of zero and smoke cloud must place itin an adjacent square. There is still a difference between Range 0 and Range 1. If you have a character with a range of zero and they somehow get a ranged combat effecting power (say a scenario randomly grants them RCE) they will still never get to use RCE since a range of zero means no regular ranged combat actions. If the figure had a range of 1 then they could use RCE in limited cases (vs. figures on a different elevation for example). It is contrived, but the difference is still there.

I have actually looked at making a figure with a range of 1. I made a mod of DC's Deadman, who is basically a ghost how can possess people. He has to enter their body to do it, so I decided to give him Mind Control with a range of 1. Thus he could only MC figures one square away (if he had range zero he would default to 4 as per the MC rules). But in general Range 1 isn't that useful.

I did look at making a Donatello TMNT figure with a range of 2 to simulate his staff (this was before CT and the range 2 Elektra) because I wanted him to be able to poke people 2 squares away or Pulse Wave to spin and hit everyone adjacent, but the whole Pulse Wave requiring a ranged combat action, which grounded figures cannot do in b2b contact, messes up the whole plan.

I'd personally like to see Pulse Wave changed to allow use when in b2b. The figure is exploding damage out in a radius blindly... to me it shouldn't matter if an enemy is next to him.

[Kiften]

I agree...darnit I want Hulk to fight lots of guys at once :) they should jsut make a power for Hulk, Daredevil, Spidey, anyone who fights groups of thugs at once to be able to "EE" them in close combat...
biggs

[jedigeof]

Jolt the thread your thinking of is called "How" . I suggest reading it. There you'll find a "judge" claiming that a clix with a range of 0 has a defult range of 10.

[A_Higher_Level]

Hulk can't do a ranged attack simply because he'd likely have Battle Fury at that time. They should have simply modified the rules to say that you may target more than one character with close combat for each lightning bolt you have... Then give him 3 bolts so he can attack 3 people at once for 1 damage a piece.

[Kiften]

I know right? It makes sense, and it's easy....but noooooo....i mean, how hard would this have been to think up? lol
biggs

[brendanbrown]

i likewise think hulk should be able to attack more than one person

they should have had more people with 0 range and multiple lightning bolts although i havnt read the rules latly and there is probly something in there that says it couldnt happen, but still, i have come across this problem as well and me and my brother actually just played a game with hulk, thing, and a few others i cant remember who, but they could attack up to 3 adjacent people, it really signified their battle skills better and it made them worth their point value, they could attack more than one person every 2 turns....oh well, wk will probly read this and think to them selvs, 'oh thats cute, they want to change the rules around, lets put out another expansion just for them being so inquisitive'

[Mr. Pilkington]

You can't tie Close Combat targets into the Ranged Combat target markers without breaking the existing multi-target figures. V Boomerang would be able to punch 3 people that are in b2b contact with him by that logic. Something tells me that without his little boomerangs he can't hurt so many at once (I mean, his name isn't Punch-erang).

They could possibly make a CC version of pulse wave (maybe whirlwind attack a la D&D 3rd Ed), but it would still probably be an Attack slot power, which means your standard bricks won't get it (since they are gonna have their Super Strength generally). Flurry is the current way to simulate it, but that doesn't quite do what you want. Should Hulk be able to hit multiple people around him? Sure. But should he be able to do his full damage to each of them? Not in my book. And that is what Flurry would get you.

No matter how you slice it I don't think we will see that kind of power for the big bruisers without some major dial modification (like maybe making an Attack icon with double fists to indicate that they can target multiple adjacent figures in CC, similar to haveing grounded, flying and fish-foot icons for movement).

[TheYanger]

they should just make another icon for multi-close combat attacks and stick them where the bolts are, like pilkington said. or if they're really lazy, just say that only characters with 0 range can use multiple close combat attacks, and just use the same bolts.

[Spiritual_Ex]

Why not just give him flurry, rather than looking for all sorts of complicated ways to make him fight multiple opponents? Flurry already exists.

[Mr. Pilkington]

I mentioned Flurry already, but it is two attacks with seperate rolls doing full damage. That's not what i think people are looking for here. Envision Hulk swinging his arm in a wide arc and smacking everyone around him. That is perfect for the current multi-target ranged combat rules: it is one attack so it has one roll compared to everyone individually and it should do less damage because he is not focussing all of his power on one target. That is more or less the "get all of these puny little men that are swarming over me off" technique. Flurry is more of a one-two punch. Granted, I'm not saying that Flurry wouldn't work, but I bet it would be prohibitavely expensive on a 4+ damage click. Imagine Hulk punching twice for 5, possibly using an object on the first hit to make it 7 and 5 respectively. Waaaaaaaay too much damage for that single action.

[Jean_genie]

I suppose MK's "Sweep" rule could theoretically work, sort of. Sweep lets you damage everything in your front arc. It'd work well with DC figures with CCE, because then people like Bane couldn't hit everyone for 5, but he could for 3. Not like he'd have it anyway, but .....

[Ozymandas]

Hulk actually has maneuvers that work similar to Pulse Wave:
the "thunderclap" where he claps his hands & the other move is when he punches or stomps the ground. The thing is that either of these moves would affect more than the people right next to him so why not simply give him PW w/ a range of 2 or greater?

[Mr. Pilkington]

If you give him PW and a real range then those powers will be wasted on his Battle Fury clicks. If you drop BF then he can suddenly ranged attack for 3-5 damage at whatever his range is. By having a range he can make a ranged attack. There is no mechanism in the game to limit him to *only* making PW ranged attacks if he makes a ranged attack.

Additionally, PW halves your range, so a PW with a printed range of "2" is nearly useless for a grounded figure. You could only do it if you were in b2b contact with a flyer (or flyers). One grounded figure in b2b and no PW for you.

[brendanbrown]

i say...

they make an ability or a rule that states that anyone with 0 range can make an attack against anyone in b2b with him, make one roll and distribute the damage to the people he is able to (i.e. hulk damage is four, there are four thugs next to him, hulk makes one roll and gets all of them, he can distrubute one to each, 2 to one and 1 to two others, 3 to one and 1 to another, or 4 to any one of them. for further explanation just ask