he who hits first wins?

[Heretic]

My wife contends that the game is primarily a contest to see who hit whom first. After the first hit, the team who hit first has a huge advantage over the second team. I am not sure that that is the case but I am curious what everyone else thinks on this subject. Dice rolls also obviously play a large part in this.

[jedigeof]

You and your wife souldn't hit. Call the Mounties next time.

[Redleg]

If both players are playing well, first hits (while important) aren't that decisive.

A poor player overcommits his figures (Batman and Logan come to mind) and has them wiped out with a first hit.

Assuming these characters aren't meant as bait, a destructive first hit sets the tempo for the game, but there is no reason why those powerful core figures should be thrown out to the sharks.

[Xian]

Depends on who's getting hit.

If it's Hulk or Blastaar (or various others), that first hit is going to make them stronger, making the hit-ees more likely to win. Certain other figures (notably Dr. Strange and Dr. Doom) showcase different powers as they get hurt; while their stats may not be better than they started at, the new powers may swing the balance in favor of their team as the game goes on.

Sure, in the end, in general, the person that does more clicks of damage is probably going to win, but there's a surprising amount of strategy involved, and it's definitely not as simple as "whoever gets the first punch in, wins."

What size games do you normally play? Is it feasible to include one of the big bruisers that gets stronger over time?

If you're playing 100 or 200 point games, then it probably isn't going to work out. However, if you move up to 300 or 400, you might have something.


Xian

[Phantom]

Sometimes. I will frequently try to maneuver to get the first hit, even if I have to push to do it, because from there it’s a lot easier to control the pace of the game. But it’s also a matter of who you hit. I played at a tourney in Seattle over the weekend, and the only game I lost was one where I got the first hit against E Electra (the other figs on the guys team were Super-Skrull and E Blob – I had Vision, E Panther, E Wolfsbane, and some throwaway characters). However, I ended up setting Vision up for a huge retaliation hit from Super-Skrull, and another huge hit from Electra (only one damage, but it put Panther out of Outwit), and from there everything I did was in response to his actions.

I’d say that if you manage to get the first big hit, you’ve got a pretty good chance of winning. In most cases, damage reduces the chances that your opponent will hit you back by reducing their attack ratings, reduces the damage that they can do, and improves your chances of hitting them again by reducing their defense.

[Redleg]

If both players are playing well, first hits (while important) aren't that decisive.

A poor player overcommits his figures (Batman and Logan come to mind) and has them wiped out with a first hit.

Assuming these characters aren't meant as bait, a destructive first hit sets the tempo for the game, but there is no reason why those powerful core figures should be thrown out to the sharks.

[Redleg]

Sorry about the double post

[Cliffjumper]

than it is more so the first KO. A hit fig can always be "supported" but a KO fig changes your opponents strategy and sometimes sends it all to he11.

The first KO for me is usually the medic or their trick fig. Ya know, the outwitter, perplexer or mind controller.

[Spiritual_Ex]

But I have to admit I'll sometimes bait my opponent, allowing a low- medium point character to be pummelled, so that I gain position on him and can attack his big hitters while they have action tokens, hurting them, and often forcing them to push.

[capsshield]

if you play a game where you have more figs than the point total divided by 100 you have a much greater ability to keep the game in your favor by not having to push. i have seen pushing lose more games for me and my opponents than any first hit. pushing can work to your advantage more than any hit. using incapacitate to cause a push is an even bigger advantage because week characters like black manta can cripple the largest figs

[Thorgrin]

I have to agree with spirtual_ex.

I was playing a team where he was basically going to wait me out, so I threw out an exp black panther and he promptly TK'd his unique wolverine up to him. He KOed him in one hit (6 on his b/c/f), so I taxied my unique wolverine on him and hit him back for 6. He missed his breakaway and I ended up hitting him again for another 6, so his main force was out. He still had an elektra unique, but by then, my main force was coming to bear and I had a bunch of stealthed guys.

My opponent had the initial volley, but it still didn't make the outcome any different in the end, well other than me not getting the extra points.

Originally posted by Spiritual_Ex
But I have to admit I'll sometimes bait my opponent, allowing a low- medium point character to be pummelled, so that I gain position on him and can attack his big hitters while they have action tokens, hurting them, and often forcing them to push.

[Wileyone]

My daughter, Laura ( age 9) wanted to respond to this thread:

(Laura)

When I play a game with my dad, whoever, gets the first shot useally does not win the game.

(ME)

Often the major factors after the first hit may include:

1. Mobility
2. Other figures in play
3. Remaining attack/defence scores
4. Dice rolls

I think Mobility plays a Huge factor in this game. Although, you must try to attack more often than you move, the moves taken will determine your ability to fight. Mobility factors your ability to tie up the opponent as well as your ability to escape (or avoid) being tied up. One of the reason Firelord is hated so much is because AFTER he gets hits (he has several clixs of life) he keeps a long movement and gains a very low defense. This helps him to run away and get healed. When I see Firelord I often target Medics first (or nearly first). The first several times I fought Firelord I found that I could not keep my figures alive as well as Firelord could be kept alive (and powerful).

For Mobility factors I consider having many cheap figures to use for tieing up the opponent (like thugs, hydra, shield etc.). With leadership or BoEM/Avengers you can really exploit this. Medics cannot heal anyone if a 6pt thug is standing next to the Medic. Other Mobility factors that I love include Leap/Climb, long movement, phasing, plasticity and Hypersonic speed.

Other figures in play often effect your stragety. The first thing I do after setting up the board is to evaluate priority targets. This may seem to fall into the "first hit wins idea" but only on the surface. The real idea is WHO gets hit first, rather than which team hits first. Expose secondary figures to lure in your opponents guns. Then smash his big guns with your big guns. But, Sometimes I have won without ever hitting the opponents big gun. In a tournment game my opponent was (again) using Firelord. I kept a 9pt rookie next to him the entire game. Each time he blasted one away he gained a whole 9pts. Meanwhile, I was killing his Wolverine, Cyclops and others. I was able to concentrate my team on good targets while 91pts of his team did almost nothing (killing 3 hydra operatives).

I love long movement figures to nutrilize RCE and Medics. Rookie QSilver is one of my favorite figures. Cyclops has a hard time doing 4 damage against me (useally). Sure Cyk can smack QSilver for 2 damage but time is Money. I bring in the Heavy hitters while he wastes time on QSilver.

I also love to send out rookie hydra agents on my first turn. I have exposed nobody important (to the opponent). They then are oh-so-close for tieing up the opponent when he moves in. They are also in position to help range attacks from the center of the board, if I chose to jump into position.

Indoors, you want to control doorways. This will allow you to gain the mobility advantage. 1 thug can make a lot figures stop and "knock" before entering.

I guess I keep ending up on the Mobility factor. But, this post is getting to long so.......

What do you think?