View Full Version : Should distribution be more 'standardized' within bricks and cases?
Right now, distribution within a case or brick has a lot of variances. In a case you can get anywhere from 4 to 8 SRs and maybe a chase fig. Within a brick it seems to be anywhere from 2 to 5 SRs with the possibility of a chase. This isn't anything new with HoT. It's been like this pretty much since Avengers.
But boosters aren't random. They have a fixed configuration as is evidenced by the duplicate booster, brick, and case problem. They could become more 'standardized' allowing for a full CUR set from a case along with half (6) of the SRs (I won't get into chases, as changes could be made to make them more standard in booster packing as well, but that's for a different poll/thread). If you bought a brick, then the configuration could be changed that you would get CU set with most of the Rs. You could also be guaranteed 3 SRs.
Even if you pulled a 'god pack' this time around, think back about you pulls since Avengers before you answer.
Would you like to see a more standardized distribution model for HC?
Strangely enough, Hair, I voted no.
There is a part of me that would like standardization, but then when it came to the SRs or chases, that's where you'd get screwed....on selection. I know this because I already experience it with Star Wars Miniatures...and I haven't been screwed yet, but I know it's coming...lol.
Based on some discussions that were generated in a thread I made yesterday (which was unexplainably closed... too bad, I thought there were some good ideas floating around in the personal attacks aimed at me) I thought I'd try and get a feeling for how 'Realmsers felt about the current distribution model and if they thought it could be improved.
Strangely enough, Hair, I voted no.
Thanks for voting! But I'm curious. Would you care to explain what about the distribution model is so appealing? And if you don't want to explain, that's cool too.
ThePrinted6
11/19/2009, 10:40
The "God Packs" are actually a mistake, yes? Did WK/NECA intentionally lace every Nth pack with a quadruple dose of SR and a Chase, did they? If so, I sure don't like that about the distribution scheme.
As for the 3-5 SRs per brick that we've seen since Avengers, I haven't minded it all that much. The worst I've faced from it was a few missing rares in JL and the fact that 6 of my 8 SRs in my case were duplicates: two each of Supesmillion, Amazo and Time Trapper. Traded off the spares easy enough, though. From M&M, Crisis, SI and AA, my case has yielded a full C/U/R with generally 7 SRs. I guess I've been lucky, then.
The question I'd most earnestly present if someone were trying to convince me to a position supporting a more rigid distribution system is: "does cherry-picking become an issue?" The logic I'm following is basically this: a more rigid system seems to me to be a more predictable system, leading everyone to know that the SR's are in boosters 3, 5, and 9, or 2, 6 and 10, or some invariable 3-booster combination that may be determinable based on some other series of tests and/or observations.
Groups of jerks rolling from store-to-store in packs with a system that's 75% accurate (for example) for picking SR boosters would really upset me. If incongruity is the price we have to pay to avoid that, then I'm all for it, but if greater regularity can be found in a sufficiently random model, then I'm even more in favor of that.
snatreaper
11/19/2009, 10:45
I said yes, but I also think that you can't have standardization without duplicate boosters/bricks/cases. You can't ask for it/have it both ways.
saturnflight
11/19/2009, 10:50
I'd call for more randomness. I want 2 random commons, a random uncommon, a random rare, and a random slot of anything; and I want it to be random without any association with one another. I'd rather have that rare chance of getting 2 of the same figure in one booster than have it guaranteed that if I have an extra Venom, I also have an extra Ronan and so does the other guy with a second Venom.
I will not buy more than a couple of boosters of a set anymore unless I am REALLY excited about a set's theme. I'll know exactly what I'm getting when I trade or buy from the secondary market.
Well, I like the way things are now. But, this is coming from someone who is a non completionist, doesn't over buy, and doesn't re-sell things on any other site. Every set since Supernova I buy one Brick, and then 4 boosters(or whatever the sealed events are), so I am not buying a case or a lot of product. I have not completed a set since Unleashed(thats just too much work for me). I am now into just getting the pieces I want from a set, favorite characters, favorite sculpts, etc. Since I started this method the only figure that i didn't get that i really wanted was Robin from AA. I am sure I can pick him up in trades later on.
For people who want the whole set as efficently as possible its a tough system. But asking for absolutes in a random model that is supposed to drive up collectability(which I think is how they sell more product) seems to me to be asking for an overall price increase, and I am not for that. If you knew that buying a case would get you the whole set no matter what, then there would be no reason to buy more than that, which means they would have to get more money for a case to recoup losses from people not buying more, which seems to hurt the non completionists out there.
Or maybe not. I am not sure, I just know I like the way it is now, even with the ups and downs, its a fun ride and I like it.
saturnflight
11/19/2009, 10:57
I'm not a completionist, which probably influences my thoughts a lot. I choose who I want and I go after them. If someone is a low-to-mid want and they're really hard to come by, I sit on that want for a while. Going after a trade for the figs I still have to have is half the fun, and when I get random figures, many have good trade value and little personal value, which allows me to enter the trading game.
I said yes, but I also think that you can't have standardization without duplicate boosters/bricks/cases. You can't ask for it/have it both ways.
Well, to comment there, and to explain for hair -
Recently...the same time as old Wizkids went under, Wizards (who produces the Star Wars Miniatures Game) revised their output as many did when the prices of plastic went up and the whole economic downturn was happening.
The original size of a SWM set was 60 pieces (which ironically, Wizkids was mimicking from them), but they changed it to 40 pieces. By reducing the set size, the number of Rare and Very Rare figures (interchangable with R and SR here) went down. As a result you get extremely standardized cases (with an occasional abberation on commons and uncommons, never on Rare and Very Rare units). In a 60 figure set you would get 12 rares, but there were 16. You would get 4 VR but there were12. If you were completist, you had much more buying to do. When they went to 40, should you buy by the case you will get 8 Rares, but there only 8. You will get 4 VR, but there are 8. So a case gets you all but 4 figures. Sounds good, until you account for the specific figures you happen to pull, and depending that could lead to about 100 extra bones to throw down to get the rest.
If heroclix became like that, I'd be fretting over WHICH SRs I was going to pull (moreso than i already do, due of my nuerotic completist leanings competing with my wallet). I have yet to be 'screwed', but since it's a gamble, well...eventually you lose. It's hard to explain, but part part of gambling is that you just might win, and i think that part needs to stay.
SlayerOfAres
11/19/2009, 11:04
I voted no... I explained already that there is pros and cons to both... and ill take it as it is.. i like playing roulette..
Kaitouace
11/19/2009, 11:06
No. The God Pack thing seems like a total mistake considering they all have chases and seem to have close to the exact same SRs every time (Odin, Hela, Ultron, Loki). I'm assuming that's not going to be the "norm". Beyond that, it's like what was said above. The closer you get to "standard", the more likely things are going to get real screwy. Either stuff like dupe bricks/cases or totally weird things like what happened in Sinister where you could buy a case and not get one Multiple Man but 15 Hydro-Man figs. The only option they'd have beyond the current method is a total open method (Heroscape). And that's just a totally different model that I don't think would suit Heroclix's best interests in the long run.
Sure it would be nice to buy a case and have a "guaranteed" situation but I've bought many cases where things were "guaranteed" and didn't come close to a full set. The ONLY case I ever bought that carried a full set was Supernova. All those older sets and "fixed" collation sets that had "guaranteed" sets? Nope. Not even close in some instances. I remember my Origin case where I didn't pull a single Steel or Triplicate Girl.
The current scheme on average lends about 5 SRs per case and sometimes you're unlucky and get a dupe or two in that batch. But on the whole, you can't really ask for much more without changing the entire model or ensuring that by "fixing" one issue you knock everything else out of whack. And between my issues with the current model post-Avengers and all the ridiculous shenanigans I had before Avengers? I'll pick to keep it the same. You can have bad luck under both scenarios but it seems like the bad luck was a LOT worse back then where as now most people are just bummed they only got 4 SRs or 5 SRs with a dupe in there. Those are the breaks but that's not nearly as rough as some of the earlier problems. I'd say where things are is about as good as it's going to get without changing the model completely.
And also let me say (not really collation related) that since Avengers I can count the number of broken figs/mangled cards/etc. I've pulled probably on one hand. Maybe 2 tops.
And I'll also just throw out that the question asked in the poll is worded kind of badly. As it stands now I have a good idea of what I'm getting. I just don't know specifics. Do I get 4 SRs? 5? 6 - 7 if I'm REAL lucky? A dupe or two? Do I get a full CUR set? Am I missing 2 - 3 Rares? Which SRs am I getting? Chase? Yeah there are questions but as a whole I know about a good 95% of what I'm getting when I buy a case.
saturnflight
11/19/2009, 11:07
The SWM model is kinda what I was trying to point out. The less random the game is, the more you have to spend to get what you're missing, and the less your extras can be valued at. In the SWM example, you get everything in one purchase, minus 4 of the rarest figures. So does basically everybody else. That leaves you with 2 options for getting those last 4: buy them at whatever huge price someone asks, or buy another case and hope you don't duplicate your last one. Trading is basically dead in such a system; at least, if you're at the level where you buy by the case.
The SWM model is kinda what I was trying to point out. The less random the game is, the more you have to spend to get what you're missing, and the less your extras can be valued at. In the SWM example, you get everything in one purchase, minus 4 of the rarest figures. So does basically everybody else. That leaves you with 2 options for getting those last 4: buy them at whatever huge price someone asks, or buy another case and hope you don't duplicate your last one. Trading is basically dead in such a system; at least, if you're at the level where you buy by the case.
Right. You pretty much end up having to buy boosters and hope for VRs to trade people who have what you want, or just pay the price it's going at. I wouldn't say trading is 'dead', but it's a minefield to be sure.
I said yes, but I also think that you can't have standardization without duplicate boosters/bricks/cases. You can't ask for it/have it both ways.
Agreed. But duplicate boosters/bricks/cases are already here and aren't going away. I'm looking at taking advantage of that and making it a better experience for the end customer.
As it stands now I have a good idea of what I'm getting. I just don't know specifics. Do I get 4 SRs? 5? 6 - 7 if I'm REAL lucky? A dupe or two? Do I get a full CUR set? Am I missing 2 - 3 Rares? Which SRs am I getting? Chase? Yeah there are questions but as a whole I know about a good 95% of what I'm getting when I buy a case.
I don't understand how that is having 'a good idea of what' you're getting? :confused: Wouldn't a good idea be a standardized collation where when you bought a case you knew you'd be getting a CUR set and half of the SRs?
SlayerOfAres
11/19/2009, 11:18
Agreed. But duplicate boosters/bricks/cases are already here and aren't going away. I'm looking at taking advantage of that and making it a better experience for the end customer.
One thing i love about collectable games is he trading aspect.. and if a case carried 1 of each figure and dupes of generics... OHH boy so coellectable!
One thing i love about collectable games is he trading aspect.. and if a case carried 1 of each figure and dupes of generics... OHH boy so coellectable!
But what really gets traded now? Give it a week and what kinds of threads will we see in the trading forum? I'll give you a hint... the pieces people will be trading for are two words and start with an "S" and an "R". ;)
That won't change under a more standardized model.
Kaitouace
11/19/2009, 11:28
I don't understand how that is having 'a good idea of what' you're getting? :confused: Wouldn't a good idea be a standardized collation where when you bought a case you knew you'd be getting a CUR set and half of the SRs?
This is the same problem I see a lot in regards to talking about this situation. No one's looking at the big picture. You're buying 100 figures. It's not all just about the Super Rares and possible chases. When I say "I have a good idea of what I'm getting" I mean that I know I'm going to get a full set of Commons. I know I'll get on average 2 - 3 of every generic. I know I'm getting a full set of Uncommons barring something odd. I know that I have a good chance to get a full set of Rares. Might end up missing one or two but will have dupe Rares to trade. And I'll know I'll have a decent start with a full set of Super Rares. So no. I don't know the specifics of those magic 5 - 7 figures with the shiny gold paint but I do have a pretty good idea about the other 90 - 95 figures in that case.
And as far as trading goes? I know a lot of people around my venue still loves to trade for generics or figs that can be used as such. Spider-Slayers were a pretty hot commodity for us during Secret Invasion. Same goes for Street Thugs and Gotham City Detectives in Arkham Asylum. And when you have people who only buy bricks as opposed to cases there'll always be people looking for some Uncommons and Rares as well. And then you have the "odd" generics that aren't generics but people will use them as such. I'm sure M-11 is going to be a pretty sought after piece for a while.
anonym0use
11/19/2009, 11:34
Agreed. But duplicate boosters/bricks/cases are already here and aren't going away. I'm looking at taking advantage of that and making it a better experience for the end customer.
It all depends on how you define the end customer. :classic:
If a majority of Heroclix players are casual players who only pick up a brick or two, then they're not likely to see a duplicate case.
From my experience at 3 venues we have on average:
1 person who buys multiple cases looking to get a full set and then make profit from the rest on the secondary market.
2-3 completionists who buy a case, and trade for the rest.
8-12 casual players who buy a brick+ sealed events.
I will admit, if I bought two bricks and they were exactly the same, I'd be disapointed. However, knowing it is a possibility, I'd try and pull both bricks from the same case, or pick one from an even number case and one from an odd to limit those chances. Even then, I'd be happy knowing I could trade a lot of extras for what I didn't have. :classic:
Sigh....
Here we go again.
I closed your last thread because basically from where it was at things risked going downhill quick, so it was best to end that right then and there..
But it appears you wish to continue.. so have at it..
If a majority of Heroclix players are casual players who only pick up a brick or two, then they're not likely to see a duplicate case.
No, they wouldn't. Even so, a standardized model would help them more than anyone else.
Spider-Dave
11/19/2009, 11:40
I'd actually prefer a less standard distribution than we have now.
I miss the days of supernova and origins when trading actually mattered.
I closed your last thread because basically from where it was at things risked going downhill quick, so it was best to end that right then and there..
This is good to know. It should have been put in the thread when it was closed. An explaination should be in any thread whenever a mod closes it.
As for your reasoning... "risked going downhill"? So by that logic, if theres the risk of a trade going bad then the trade thread shouldn't be made?? :confused:
But it appears you wish to continue.. so have at it..
I wish to understand what others think about it. Not everyone here is as vocal as I. A poll is a good way to express an opinion without actually having to put it into words (an thereby risk being flamed be the other half).
I'd actually prefer a less standard distribution than we have now.
I'm working under the assumption that 'randomness' in boosters isn't coming back.
This is good to know. It should have been put in the thread when it was closed. An explaination should be in any thread whenever a mod closes it.
As for your reasoning... "risked going downhill"? So by that logic, if theres the risk of a trade going bad then the trade thread shouldn't be made?? :confused:
My apologies for closing a thread where you were already taking flak, that was pretty well in posts starting to get out of hand so it was cut off at the pass, to keep all parties involved as content as possible.
Some days you just can't win it seems.
I wish to understand what others think about it. Not everyone here is as vocal as I. A poll is a good way to express an opinion without actually having to put it into words (an thereby risk being flamed be the other half).
Except no poll gets posted without a tread accompanying it, which thereby brings back your risk of being flamed... Again..
Gentlegamer
11/19/2009, 11:48
I'd like to see more 'standardization' in the sense of 'better' randomized collation within bricks and cases. If there are wild swings in the "winners" and "losers" of number and type of characters at that level, it is a disincentive to buy at that level, and an incentive to go the secondary market to cherry-pick singles. I assume WK wants us to buy from them (through retailers selling bricks and cases), so this would be better for everyone involved.
I guess I would like to know what it is exactly you want to know about what you are buying? Do you want to make sure you get the whole set out of one case? If thats so, then why not just buy a complete set off the secondary market. I am confused the more I read here, what do you think a "standardized system" would be. I mean, if every case was the same then they would all be duplicates. And if that were the case wouldn't the odds of casual players(people not buying bricks) pulling duplicate boosters be increased, since there would be a lot more duplicate boosters out there?
This is good to know. It should have been put in the thread when it was closed. An explaination should be in any thread whenever a mod closes it.
As for your reasoning... "risked going downhill"? So by that logic, if theres the risk of a trade going bad then the trade thread shouldn't be made?? :confused:
I wish to understand what others think about it. Not everyone here is as vocal as I. A poll is a good way to express an opinion without actually having to put it into words (an thereby risk being flamed be the other half).
I'm working under the assumption that 'randomness' in boosters isn't coming back.
I love this one, especially since your poll is very leading to your point of view. Neither option is worded in a neutral way, you very clearly have one option you wish people to pick.
I dont mind random bricks with the occassional low distribution. I dont mind a brick being anything different then 10 random boosters with collated art work.
What I dont care for is inequality in Boosters.
If SRs are supposed to be 1-in-every-3 Boosters then I would expect that if I opened 99 Boosters 30-35 of them contained at least 1 SR.
Making a Booster with more SRs then just 1 and then down scaling the ratio of boosters that have at least 1 SR is not really a fair collation practice.
This sort of thing pushes me to a secondary market. I can let the secondary market open up 2000 Boosters and deal with evening out the distribution ratios there instead of taking huge swings of risk in my small pool of purchases.
That kind of strategy doesnt promote B&M stores.
Now that you know my opinion how should I vote to reflect my opinion?
I dont mind the distribution (completetion of sets) within the brick or case so much because I enjoy the trading aspect. That is dont mind missing 1 or 2 Rares or duping up 1 or 2 SRs within a Brick or even hunting down some commons for trade.
I guess I would like to know what it is exactly you want to know about what you are buying? Do you want to make sure you get the whole set out of one case? If thats so, then why not just buy a complete set off the secondary market. I am confused the more I read here, what do you think a "standardized system" would be. I mean, if every case was the same then they would all be duplicates. And if that were the case wouldn't the odds of casual players(people not buying bricks) pulling duplicate boosters be increased, since there would be a lot more duplicate boosters out there?
I agree and knowing that buying a whole case takes away much of the collectability.
While it could be a good thing for the consumer to know that they can get a whole set from buying a case, the company wants you to have a reason to come back and buy those 3 or 4 more boosters in the attempt to get what you need.
anonym0use
11/19/2009, 11:56
Should distribution be more 'standardized' within bricks and cases?
This is one of those "loaded" kind of questions:
Would you like to make more money?
Would you like to pull a god-pack?
Would you like to be guaranteed 5 SRs per brick?
Who wouldn't?
Ideally, figure distribution would be perfect. But we don't live in a perfect world. I'd love to buy a brick and not recieve a duplicate figure. How is that going to happen? I would think more standardization would lead directly to more duplicate boosters.
Can distribution be more 'standardized' within bricks and cases?
Now that's a question.
Perhaps yes, but my guess is this: the more time spent on coalation, the greater the increase of CoGS. I don't see an easy way to make it happen in a cost effective manner.
My apologies for closing a thread where you were already taking flak,
I don't mind taking flak. It's my role on HCR it seems. ;) And besides, it was my thread so if I thought it got too bad I could have simply closed it myself.
which thereby brings back your risk of being flamed... Again..
Like I said, doesn't bother me in the least. At least I know I can back up my opinion with some semblance of reason. :p
I guess I would like to know what it is exactly you want to know about what you are buying? Do you want to make sure you get the whole set out of one case?
As I said in the first post (and in the thread linked there), from a case I'd like to know that I'm going to get a CUR set and half (6) SRs. From a brick I'd like to know that I'm going to get a CU set, all but 2 of the Rs, and 3 SRs. The sepecifics of the SRs aren't important to me but the number is. Cases run wildly from 4-8 SRs and that's too big of a swing. There's no reason for it.
thats so, then why not just buy a complete set off the secondary market.
I will be from now on (as stated in the linked thread) but that doesn't help the next guy who buys a case and gets only 4 SRs and not a complete CUR set.
Perhaps yes, but my guess is this: the more time spent on coalation, the greater the increase of CoGS. I don't see an easy way to make it happen in a cost effective manner.
"CoGS"? Regardless, Privateer Press pulls off perfect case collation every time... so it can be done.
MattMinus
11/19/2009, 11:59
Except no poll gets posted without a tread accompanying it, which thereby brings back your risk of being flamed... Again..
But aren't flames exactly what trolls are looking for?
Give it a week and what kinds of threads will we see in the trading forum? I'll give you a hint... the pieces people will be trading for are two words and start with an "S" and an "R". ;)
That won't change under a more standardized model.
True, but that only reflects the Online trading.
Its fairly enjoyable to fill-in the Rares, Commons, and Uncommons with face to face trades at my local venue in between rounds or while we discuss what looks like fun in the set.
That part of collecting builds community, so I dont at all mind if I get 9 copies of Common Floronic Man and 0 Copies of U Hit Man.
Kaitouace
11/19/2009, 12:11
The sepecifics of the SRs aren't important to me but the number is. Cases run wildly from 4-8 SRs and that's too big of a swing. There's no reason for it.
That's what we got now. Granted the God Pack situation was screwed up but ignoring those lucky guys who are pulling 8 SRs and looking at all the guys who don't get God Packs (as well as the various other cases from previous sets) you've got a case which will give you a CUR set (occasionally missing 1 - 2 Rares) and 5 SRs. Lucky guys will get 6. Unlucky guys will get 4. That's not that big of a swing. We're talking a shift of maybe 3 - 4 figures total of which only half would be worth more than 5 bucks on the secondary market.
I don't like the God Pack situation at all personally but since it doesn't seem to be a conscious decision I'm not considering it a "trend" at all. But every case I've gotten since Avengers has fallen into that setup I lined up above and in most cases I got a full CUR set to go with those 5 SRs. And I think there was only one instance where I ended up with dupe SRs (pulled 2 Amazos and 2 Shining Knights out of Justice League with a 6 SR pull).
It's not the EXACT same every single time but it's real close for most case buyers.
"CoGS"? Regardless, Privateer Press pulls off perfect case collation every time... so it can be done.
Without knowing more I am not sure you are comparing apples to apples here.
What is their set size?....the larger the set size the more likely random distribution is even. Going from 92 figs a set to 60 increases the disparity in collation dramatically increasing the odds of duplicates.
How many figs to a Booster?....the higher the percentage of the set that appears in a single booster the more a case becomes filled with duplicates. That is going from 4 figures a booster to 5 figures a booster also dramatically increases the disparity in collation.
What is the quoted ratio of SRs to Rs to Us to Cs?.....Again the ratio of these things in conjunction with the Booster allocation can cause disparity.
How many different commons are there in comparison to how many different Uncommons, Rares, and SRs?
Disparity could be fixed without messing up randomness by increasing the number of slotted Commons and decreasing the number of slotted Rares and going back to 4 figures a Booster.
jackstar7
11/19/2009, 12:24
What we don't know is the set size for what's going to come after B&tB. If the set sizes get reduced, we might reach a point where a brick/case would actually get a set without any issue.
I'm not sure if smaller sets produced more frequently will please everyone... but I know if I could manage a brick/case every other month, I'd gladly do so to net a set.
Otherwise, it'll be buying sets directly if I'm not enthusiastic about the commons/generics.
llyrghmnghyll
11/19/2009, 12:30
1) as I've said many times, these Polls are a game. Scientific polling is an entirely different process. Anything garnered from these polls is essentially meaningless. It's just another thread really.
2) I Voted for more standardization, but I understand why that might be a bad thing for the company. I Haven't gotten my stupid Starlord yet and I'm in between trading for him and buying more packs. Also with only two SR's in my case and dupes of mostly non-generic commons I got a pretty lousy Brick.
3) local trading is great if you've got a large enough community, internet trading is barely cheaper than buying things online and more frustrating in many ways. Back in Sacramento we never traded for non SR/Uniques anyway in my group, we simply gave away what we didn't want and received in kind.
What we don't know is the set size for what's going to come after B&tB. If the set sizes get reduced, we might reach a point where a brick/case would actually get a set without any issue.
I'm not sure if smaller sets produced more frequently will please everyone... but I know if I could manage a brick/case every other month, I'd gladly do so to net a set.
Otherwise, it'll be buying sets directly if I'm not enthusiastic about the commons/generics.
Making the sets smaller actually makes the random collation less smooth.
I will provide an example.....
Get 100 Imaginary packs of Hoyle Cards...
Take out just the ACE through 6 of Spades in each of the 100 packs.
Now thoroughly shuffle the 600 cards.
Deal them out in groups of 6.
How many groups of 6 do you think will have 0 Dupes?
How many groups of 6 do you think will have 2 sets of Dupes or more?
Now look at a bigger set.....
Now take the same 100 Hoyle packs.
Now thoroughly shuffle all the Red Cards (hearts and diamonds) 2,600 cards (26 differenet cards).
Deal them out in groups of 6.
How many groups of 6 do you think will have 0 Dupes?
How many groups of 6 do you think will have 2 sets of Dupes or more?
Much less, but continue on.....
Reshuffle and deal out groups of 24.
You should have dupes in 24, but as you add more cards to the pool the amount of dupes as you collect goes down.
If you start fooling around with rarities you will see even more dupes pop-up. For instance just add 50 face cards and leave out the Diamond Face Cards.
llyrghmnghyll
11/19/2009, 12:46
Should distribution be more 'standardized' within bricks and cases?
This is one of those "loaded" kind of questions:
Would you like to make more money?
Would you like to pull a god-pack?
Would you like to be guaranteed 5 SRs per brick?
Who wouldn't?
Ideally, figure distribution would be perfect. But we don't live in a perfect world. I'd love to buy a brick and not recieve a duplicate figure. How is that going to happen? I would think more standardization would lead directly to more duplicate boosters.
Can distribution be more 'standardized' within bricks and cases?
Now that's a question.
Perhaps yes, but my guess is this: the more time spent on coalation, the greater the increase of CoGS. I don't see an easy way to make it happen in a cost effective manner.
Distribution can be more standardized, many other companies do it.
Does it lead to better sales? My understanding is that it doesn't. Mixed distribution leads to higher/Steadier randomized sales by means of a variable reinforcement schedule. (Variable schedules produce higher rates and greater resistance to extinction than most fixed schedules. This is also known as the Partial Reinforcement Extinction Effect (PREE)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement)
I'm sure many people will say it doesn't cause them to buy more: A) your purchasing habits are irrelevant to statistics based on mass consumption and B) people are notoriously bad judges of their own behavior.
God packs and Chases act as a reinforcement to the behavior "buying a pack". Like a gambler at a slot machine people keep buying hoping for a big win. Go into any gambling parlor and you should realize why this works. The only risk is alienating your entire base which seems unlikely at this juncture.
I love this one, especially since your poll is very leading to your point of view. Neither option is worded in a neutral way, you very clearly have one option you wish people to pick.
I didn't think either option was 'leading', but feel free to reword it and start your own poll.
llyrghmnghyll
11/19/2009, 13:18
How do you feel about standardized distribution?
1) I love randomized stuff because I love winning when I open my boosters
2) Standardized distribution, knowing mostly what I'm getting makes me happy.
3) Unsure/Undecided
This would be a relatively unbiased poll. both main options are stated in a positive manner which prevents bias (negativity has real problems with it and tends to lead to an overuse of the undecided option). Also no poll is unbiased unless it accounts for all options, hence the inclusion of the third choice.
Of course it still wouldn't mean jack because a poll done by self selection is only valid for the responders and does not represent any other community.
anonym0use
11/19/2009, 13:23
Distribution can be more standardized, many other companies do it.
I guess my questions would be:
What companies? What products? What are the similarities/differences between said companies and the Wizkids model?
I'd just be curious to know. :)
Space Jawa
11/19/2009, 13:33
I will be from now on (as stated in the linked thread) but that doesn't help the next guy who buys a case and gets only 4 SRs and not a complete CUR set.
If it's as big a problem for them as it is for you, couldn't they go the same route and also buy a complete set instead of taking their chances?
Like a gambler at a slot machine people keep buying hoping for a big win. Go into any gambling parlor and you should realize why this works.
I don't gamble.
anonym0use
11/19/2009, 13:44
I don't gamble.
Except for car insurance. ;)
I don't gamble.
You buy random boosters..
Therefore.. you do
Gentlegamer
11/19/2009, 13:50
You buy random boosters..
Therefore.. you dohair10 doesn't buy random boosters. He buys cases of boosters, whose overall collation of figures shouldn't be 'random' or as 'random' in the sense you mean.
amirite?
hair10 doesn't buy random boosters. He buys cases of boosters, whose overall collation of figures shouldn't be 'random' or as 'random' in the sense you mean.
amirite?
Not really.
Even if you know you're going to get an SR you don't know which one you're going to get.
I could tell you if you go to a casino and play a slot machine 10 times I garuntee you you'll "win" twice.
You're still gambling on how much exactly you'll win.
Unless I say you'll win X amount 2 times out of 10.
I'm of the personal opinion that I like the randomness of opening packs. It helps the collectability aspect of the game and makes my collection worth something. If they standarize everything, then I don't think I would end up being worth as much. I guess I just don't understand the mentality that some people have that they should easily be able to get every figure. If you could easily get every figure, there would be no value to those figures. And for some the value of the figures is part of the fun of collecting.
konasavage
11/19/2009, 14:07
Avengers, Justice League, Crisis, and Arkham (sets I bought a case for) ALL provided me with a complete set of CUR plus 6-7 SRs. Can't get much better.
If you could easily get every figure, there would be no value to those figures. And for some the value of the figures is part of the fun of collecting.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't go collecting sets for their later value. Frankly, I'm always surprised that some of this stuff retains a value.
lukebuchanan
11/19/2009, 14:23
hair10 doesn't buy random boosters. He buys cases of boosters, whose overall collation of figures shouldn't be 'random' or as 'random' in the sense you mean.
amirite?
Sounds right to me.....except, he knew there was a chance of a shoddy case.
I think the distribution SHOULD be super-close to a guaranteed set, a set number of SR's, and so on. And yes, a chase per case would be awesome. I think it ceases being a chase at that point, but whatever.
So, Hair10 DOES buy random boosters...............with expectations. Very dangerous thing that is. But I agree with him, collation should be spot-on, and this "uber-pack" thing is just damn ridiculous.
llyrghmnghyll
11/19/2009, 14:30
I don't gamble.
1) You buy complete sets? (if you don't then you do indeed gamble)
2) I don't drink and drive, but it's fair to say that we should still act as though others do.
I guess my questions would be:
What companies? What products? What are the similarities/differences between said companies and the Wizkids model?
I'd just be curious to know.
1) Wizards does this with Star wars minis, at least they have for the past 4 sets. They have essentially the same rarity scheme as Heroclix, with one major exception. In heroclix we're lucky if 1/10th of a set is generics, in SW minis usually ~2/3 of the set is generic (28/40). The other big difference is the booster packs have a standard distribution because they include more figs (1R/VR, 2 UC, and 4C). In one case you expect to get 4of each common, 2 of each uncommon, 1 rare, and 4 VRs.
2) heroclix would have to take a different route. I'd expect the following distribution in a Brick
Slots 1,2,3,4 &5
1) 100% commons
2) 70% common/30% Uncommon
3) 100% Uncommon
4) 100% Rare
5) 30% Very Rare/40% Common/27.5% Uncommon/2.5% Chase
Figures are placed in boosters in order Commons, 1-16, uncommons 17-32, Rares 33-48, Super Rares 49-60, Chases 1-2
Hence you end up with Brick one off the line Yielding
Commons 2 of 1-5 and 1 of 6-16
Uncommons 17-32
Rares 33-42
Super rares 49-51
the following Brick would be the same but with doubles of commons 6-10 and Super rares 52-54
the fourth brick would have an incomplete set of Uncommons, but would instead have a chase, so I don't see that being an issue.
shanbo83
11/19/2009, 14:46
Right now, distribution within a case or brick has a lot of variances. In a case you can get anywhere from 4 to 8 SRs and maybe a chase fig. Within a brick it seems to be anywhere from 2 to 5 SRs with the possibility of a chase. This isn't anything new with HoT. It's been like this pretty much since Avengers.
But boosters aren't random. They have a fixed configuration as is evidenced by the duplicate booster, brick, and case problem. They could become more 'standardized' allowing for a full CUR set from a case along with half (6) of the SRs (I won't get into chases, as changes could be made to make them more standard in booster packing as well, but that's for a different poll/thread). If you bought a brick, then the configuration could be changed that you would get CU set with most of the Rs. You could also be guaranteed 3 SRs.
Even if you pulled a 'god pack' this time around, think back about you pulls since Avengers before you answer.
Would you like to see a more standardized distribution model for HC?
this might be a dumb question. does marvel and dc heroclix get distributed from the same factory?
or do they come from separate factories already packaged and then get shipped to a warehouse(s) to be shipped out worldwide?
i wonder because if they are separate then we may not see this kind of distribution in brave and the bold.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't go collecting sets for their later value. Frankly, I'm always surprised that some of this stuff retains a value.
While I agree that I am also surprised at how much monetary value remains in some clix, I would say that everyone who collects anything is doing so because of that things value. Be it psychological, emotional, sentimental, or monetary, if the objects had no value to you then you would not collect it. If you only saw the clix as game pieces, then you would just buy the ones on the secondary market that you needed to play. But, if you are collecting the whole set, then there has to be some kind of value in the pieces for you.
While I agree that I am also surprised at how much monetary value remains in some clix, I would say that everyone who collects anything is doing so because of that things value. Be it psychological, emotional, sentimental, or monetary, if the objects had no value to you then you would not collect it. If you only saw the clix as game pieces, then you would just buy the ones on the secondary market that you needed to play. But, if you are collecting the whole set, then there has to be some kind of value in the pieces for you.
Good call, techdog!
They need to make a brick more standardized. As right now too many people only want to buy cases as "insurance". People who would or could buy just a brick can get scared off by bad brick collation. These people end up buying a CUR set or singles instead.
I've said before, that like Hair now, I haven't played the booster lotto since Avengers. Even cherry picking 10-20 of the CUR figures is not very cost efficient. Often you'll pay ~$25 for those 15ish figs, when $50 will get you a whole CUR set of 48.
At the point things are right now, I would never buy less than a case. There is to much chance of getting "the bad brick" out of a case with only 4 SR and bad CUR collation. The problem for me (and others) is that once you are spending money on a case, it's a very short step to spend just a small amount more (depending on what you can buy cases for) and buy a full set.
Tarnish
I Am The Game
11/19/2009, 15:14
I voted yes. We already have a brick incentive. We should also have a case incentive. A complete CUR along with a known number of SR's and a stab at a chase wouldn't be bad. 4 chase figs at 1 per case would be pretty good too, and would be a reason to pick up multiple cases. If you prefer the randomness of it, just buy by the booster.
I'm already a case buyer, but I'm all for pushing people to buy more. The more the company sells, the longer they last, and the more clix they make...
stark's heir
11/19/2009, 15:19
Its fun cracking a booster for BR's or even a draft game here and there, but overall, I'd rather see what I'm gettin'.
eshuroger
11/19/2009, 16:09
Having just gotten the worst case I've ever gotten, I'm leaning more toward the standardization. I've always gotten a complete set of CURs (except I was missing one rare from SI, but I attributed that to a lot of them having two different versions, and didn't mind), and at least six super rares (SI had seven, AA had five, though doubles of one of them, and a chase).
My case of HoT had four super rares, two in each brick, and was missing two rares! I'd kind of like a little more reliability for what I'm paying. Chases not being a sure thing, I'm fine with, but I shouldn't get total junk when I buy a case.
Dikarika
11/19/2009, 16:27
I voted no.
I don't know what problem you are speaking of. My brick had an excellent range of figures, few duplicates and a "god booster".
I don't think you understand what "randomly assorted miniatures" means. Each pack (and therfore brick/case) is randomly allotted. I'm sure due to manufacturing methods, painting schedules and other factors, randomness is not truly achieved.
Still though, I've had more crummy boosters than good ones, but I'm still not up for the changes you seem to think are so needed.
Not everything needs to be perfect, not every case should have a full CURSR set in it.
If you need a set so badly, buy a set from a secondary supplier. Or play a game that dosen't have randomized boosters. I'm sorry for your poor luck, but I'm sick of hearing you complain about it also.
Bleh.
My case of HoT had four super rares, two in each brick, and was missing two rares!
Probably got the clone of mine. :rolleyes:
I don't know what problem you are speaking of.
See the post above yours.
I don't think you understand what "randomly assorted miniatures" means.
I don't think you and I are playing the same game. Where's the word "random" on the HoT booster box? :confused: It says "collectible" but nowhere does it say "random".
but I'm sick of hearing you complain about it also.
Then quit trolling in threads I create. :cool:
nikolasmorse
11/19/2009, 18:46
I think the real question is the level of the randomization. I feel very strongly that the level at which randomization should begin to average out should be a reasonable sampling of the smallest discrete unit the game can be purchased in.
If you purchase 5 boosters (a $50 investment) you will not begin to average. You will either have a god pack ($100+ dollars of figs) or you will have nothing ($10 in figures).
The same applies to a brick! You either score big or lose big.
This concept can be applied to any product purchased in the form of a random selection.
Edit:
Previous WK sets followed this rule. You could purchase 5 booster packs and have small odds of getting nothing, small odds of getting 2+ U/SRs, but most likley you would get a good assortment of REV or CUR and one U/SR.
Good job NECA, real winner. 99% of the kids that purchase a couple of boosters will get screwed!
The SWM model is kinda what I was trying to point out. The less random the game is, the more you have to spend to get what you're missing, and the less your extras can be valued at. In the SWM example, you get everything in one purchase, minus 4 of the rarest figures. So does basically everybody else. That leaves you with 2 options for getting those last 4: buy them at whatever huge price someone asks, or buy another case and hope you don't duplicate your last one. Trading is basically dead in such a system; at least, if you're at the level where you buy by the case.
Thw SWM model is great. You know what you're getting by way of number of VRs, Rs, UCs and Cs. It's pretty much down to a science. With that model you can easily opt in or out based on whether or not you think that it's worth your money. In the SWM Model, I know if I shell out for a case, when all is said and done I'm missing four figures. Period. It's wonderful and I endorse it most vigorously.
With Clix, you can't make any sort of "educated" decision. There is way to much variability in a case. Anywhere from 4 to 7 or 8 SRs? Maybe not even a full CUR set? Maybe a chase maybe not? Ugg.
I was on the fence for HoT, but I broke down and bought a case. Call it withdrawl. Call it crazy. Call it whatever you like. But one thing is for sure, it's my last case. Why?
Well, for my $170, I got all the commons - which was nice. But I'm missing two uncommmons and two rares?! Odd and it's never happened to me before. And my Heimdall only has one arm - his left - so he's essentially unarmed (ha!). I got 5 SRs, but two of them were Gert and Old Lace - so I basically got 4 SRs. And Miniature Market didn't send me any Surtur LEs. And no chase. So there ya go. Was that worth the money? Not to me. Heck, with the degree of variance, I can't even feel good about buying a brick. From here on out, it's buying singles or sets, but no more sealed product unless HeroClix falls in line with the industry leader.
And as a bonus, I get to add the cost of my labor to the deal because I've got to go fix the dial stickers on about 80% of the figures - which adds more cost to me and further decreases the value of what I purchased for $170. I would have been waaay better off buying a CUR set for $50-60 and the SRs as singles. That's my future plan to be certain.
TimoSupremo
11/19/2009, 18:54
If an infinite amount of hair10's bought an infinite amount of HoT cases, would one hair10 eventually like the HoT case's collation??????? :confused::confused::confused:
Gentlegamer
11/19/2009, 18:55
And as a bonus, I get to add the cost of my labor to the deal because I've got to go fix the dial stickers on about 80% of the figuresAre your stickers off-center, so the dial clicks with it inbetween slots?
tyroclix
11/19/2009, 18:56
I'd call for more randomness. I want 2 random commons, a random uncommon, a random rare, and a random slot of anything; and I want it to be random without any association with one another. I'd rather have that rare chance of getting 2 of the same figure in one booster than have it guaranteed that if I have an extra Venom, I also have an extra Ronan and so does the other guy with a second Venom.
I kinda lean that way. Its a big difference between not knowing what you are going to pull to knowing exactly what is in the "other brick".
I think it would liven up the trading forum again, too - which is a really fun part of HeroClix (or was...)
Dikarika
11/19/2009, 19:19
See the post above yours.
Mmkay, I did. And? You are saying every case should be an organized and nearly full set. I disagree. Randomness and variations of figures obtained is part of the equation.
I don't think you and I are playing the same game. Where's the word "random" on the HoT booster box? :confused: It says "collectible" but nowhere does it say "random".
Unfortunately I threw out all my boxes. I have plenty of spares from old sets and didn't need to keep more. I'm sorry I can't properly stick up for myself other than this point: Heroclix has been "randomly" assorted within boosters for years now. I'm sure the distribution method hasn't changed much. I don't seem to remember any windows or listings on my boxes of what figures were inside. Maybe yours did.
Then quit trolling in threads I create. :cool:
Huh, I saw a front page poll and responded to it. I haven't "trolled" in a single one of your created threads either. I am, however, maybe the most vocal opponent to all the bellyaching about lousy pulls. Sometimes you just get bad boosters. My many duplicates from SI and AA are positive proof of that. My one SR from SI and two SR's from Arkham is another. Is it worth complaining about? Not at all.
Here is an interesting tidbit for you, and a much larger sample size than yours:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4410895&postcount=1
No, Its not exactly on topic of a near full set per case. But it shows that perhaps distribution is not as far gone as you seem to think.
I'm done "trolling" now. Hope next time we meet in a thread its under more likable circumstances.
Heroclix has been "randomly" assorted within boosters for years now. I'm sure the distribution method hasn't changed much.
No, not much... not since Avengers. :rolleyes:
Are your stickers off-center, so the dial clicks with it inbetween slots?
Yes, and that pleases me not. In sets past there would be a bit of that going on, but for this set it is the vast majority of the figures. A somewhat inauspicous beginning. Hopefully not a portent of things to come.
Havickzbeck
11/19/2009, 20:13
Its been explained to someone in my neck of the woods that Neca did nothing but buy a pre-made package right down to the distribution deal.
If thats truly the case Neca doesn't deserve to be attacked for the mistakes of the idiots that came before them.
We can only just hope that by the time Brave and the Bold is done they can start to actually making their own product without the flaws of the company that went "mentally challenged" just before they went belly up.
I'm fine with what they did this time around as far as this topic is concerned.
My Gripes are with the near complete lack of understanding of the characters the figs represent (what with Balder and Volstagg being the two most durable figs in this and most any set rather than it being two of the most durable charters in comics Kurse and the Destroyer) and the lack of a checklist yet again!
I wonder what kind of threads we'd be seeing if Hair pulled a "god" booster.. :P
Gentlegamer
11/19/2009, 20:24
Yes, and that pleases me not. In sets past there would be a bit of that going on, but for this set it is the vast majority of the figures. A somewhat inauspicous beginning. Hopefully not a portent of things to come.So I see I'm not alone in this. Some of my dials are really tough to turn in addition. :confused:
I wonder what kind of threads we'd be seeing if Hair pulled a "god" booster.. :P
Well, I've pulled my share of chase figs and I've made my feelings about them pretty well known. That should give you some kind of indication.
webhead817
11/19/2009, 21:14
IMHO...
I think there should be level where the purchase of a set amount of product would guarantee a complete set (say, minus chases, which is a whole 'nother question.) I don't know if that number is the brick or the case, but if they are already sorting to some level, there is little reason that they cannot.
At least three things would encourage additional purchases...sealed play, pursuit of chase figures, and pursuit of multiple army builder figures.
qc_mohawks
11/19/2009, 21:27
SWMs gets it right....1 case WILL get you 36 of the 40 figures......you will only end up missing 4 VRs......$100 gets you darn near a complete set of SWMs.......you dont even get 1/6 of the SRs in a brick of heroclix.....not nearly the bang for your buck......until then SWMs get my case buys, while heroclix will only get the single purchases online (the scraps)
malakim2099
11/19/2009, 21:56
Right now, distribution within a case or brick has a lot of variances. In a case you can get anywhere from 4 to 8 SRs and maybe a chase fig. Within a brick it seems to be anywhere from 2 to 5 SRs with the possibility of a chase. This isn't anything new with HoT. It's been like this pretty much since Avengers.
Au contraire! Most cases I've had since Avengers are pretty standard. Pretty much 6-7 SRs and a full CUR set. With the apparent frequency of 5 SRs/case (unless you get a god pack)... then it's just a touch ridiculous. If it was 6-7 plus a 25-50% chance of a god pack? I'd be a lot more in favor, as it wouldn't be taking away from something to do something else.
BTW, I voted yes, it should be standard. 1 SR : 3 boosters is fine.
SWMs gets it right....1 case WILL get you 36 of the 40 figures......you will only end up missing 4 VRs......$100 gets you darn near a complete set of SWMs.......you dont even get 1/6 of the SRs in a brick of heroclix.....not nearly the bang for your buck......until then SWMs get my case buys, while heroclix will only get the single purchases online (the scraps)
I agree with qc 100%.
malakim2099
11/19/2009, 22:41
I agree with qc 100%.
Ah, qc... he must have digested the crow he had to eat, so now he's back to the old "Do it the SWM way it is better!" thing.
Sadly, NECA seems determined to prove that he might have a point. :cheeky:
qc_mohawks
11/19/2009, 23:00
Ah, qc... he must have digested the crow he had to eat, so now he's back to the old "Do it the SWM way it is better!" thing.
Sadly, NECA seems determined to prove that he might have a point. :cheeky:
for what it is worth I was never jazzed about the HOT setlist, so i waa going to probably buy a few singles anyways.....BUT if the corolation isnt better with B&Bold then it appears I would be better served buying a full set from eBay then to play these crazy odds.....sure your $100 could go a LONG ways, but if you dont get the god brick then you may as well toss your $100 in the carper........$100 is too much money to chance.....fix the distribution NECA or you get no money from me
I refuse to play the booster lotto
Heathcliff
11/19/2009, 23:11
Given the sizeable investment involved in buying case, and even a brick these days, I feel a case should net you close to a set. You're essentially paying a lump sum to avoid the gamble. Bricks should be half of that. Anyone choosing to go the loose booster route should expect to possibly have to buy more than a brick/case's worth to come close to a complete set. That's where the trading aspect comes into play. Wizkids doesn't make more money, since they sell out to Diamond anyways. Why not make sure people are happy with their initial investment, rather thatn force them to take that money and turn to Ebay for a complete set, at the expense of the Brick and Mortar stores?
Marvelus
11/21/2009, 19:44
I was sweating bullets until I finally pulled a "god booster" but I feel that the SR should be spread out more even in the boosters.
santagog
11/21/2009, 23:34
Yes and no. I've been buying and playing wizkids games from the start. I was one of the first 1000 people to register for wizkids (ursagolem for those that may care) A year or two ago I was a very vocal member of Wizkids site until I got banned. But love or hate them, I love the games. I can remember how horrible the collation was with unique the first month rebellion came out. I can remember the very first wizkids website with nothing but a brass golem announcing the new game, Mage Knight.... I can remember when MK realms was the busiest site I would visit every day, every week. Ive loved these games since the start. The only thing I DON'T remember is a set people didn't complain about the collation in. Expectations run high now. People expect to get X amount of super rares per brick. People expect to complete a set off one case. Do I like super rare chase figures??? No, not since they started in Mutant Mayhem(what's that you say? you thought they started in Supernova???? you don't remember the Master class painted spider-man labeled 221 with a certificate of authenticity randomly packed one in TEN cases??). Ive thought, well as long as it's a figure that's more of an upgrade than additional figures, it'd be fine. And that's how it was for a while.And all was good. Then came supernova, and really good, usable super rare chase figures came to light. and things went bad from there...... EVERY set until mutant mayhem/legacy had horrible collation, BUT you know what. It's a COLLECTIBLE miniatures game. You find out the hard way, and you find out fast that you aren't meant to finish every set off, or if you want to finish it, work your butt off. There 2 guys I used to game with that were completionists. They bought a fair amount and traded for what they didn't have. Sometimes they had good luck, sometimes bad. but they were great at trading, and not ONCE, not ONE TIME did they complain about getting screwed because they didn't get this or that. I appreciate that more than I can say. Collation is an issue in any thing that influences a secondary resale market. I wish it didn't. I really wish I had all four marvel zombies to play with. I really wish I had Wizard Shazam! or Batman chases to play with. But that's not how a collectible game works. Every magic player wishes he had a full set of power nine. Every mage knight player wishes he had an annub LE or full set of sinister horseman. If you want it that badly, you'll work your butt off and go get it. Maybe you think I'm ranting, maybe you don't care. I'm not whining, because as much as I dislike wizkids for differences of opinions with Capt Ramirez and muncho boy years ago, I stand by the games that I love, because NOTHING is better than the thrill of a good game played with good friends. Ive met a lot of good people, some ######s for sure, but every good or great game, even every bad game Ive played has made it worth it. Its not about the distribution problems, its about the game. Love it or leave it. That's all it boils down too. Super rares show up on AVERAGE 1 in 3 boosters. Maybe not in your brick, but theres more to worry about then that at a larger packaging level. When you package that case as a whole, thinking the end user is a B&M store thats gonna cut it open and sell it as singles, 1 in 3 is as good as it gets. Go buy 3 or 4 YGO packs. Go buy 3-4 Magic packs. Go buy 3-4 SWM backs. How often are thos games gonna net you the equivilant of a super rare? YGO, not very often, the good cards or even super rare #### cards are 1-6+ packs generally. Magic? mythic rares only came out in recent years and are 1 in 5-6 packs. Very rares from SWM? Ive never pulled one, and at tournys, except for one dude that pulled 4 for 4, most people were 1 in 4. That's a percentage of 25% or less in those other games. And more oftne than not, the regulars in the sets dont make up for it. With HOT, SI, and some of the other recent sets in the last few years, the commons uncommons and regular rares WERE better than uniques of old sets. Things were done with powers that never had been tried before and vioala! GOOD REV were made. Imagine that! The only thing people who still love this game should be complaining about is the lack of playing it.
Do I like super rare chase figures??? No, not since they started in Mutant Mayhem(what's that you say? you thought they started in Supernova???? you don't remember the Master class painted spider-man labeled 221 with a certificate of authenticity randomly packed one in TEN cases??).
Not sure if it was 1 in 10 cases or not. I know that there were 50 made (probably considerably less than that still around). Regardless, those masterpiece Spider-Man figs (and Batman in Legacy) were the exact same fig but with a different painter (a WK painter rather than a factory worker in China) and a certificate. Most people didn't care because it really wasn't a different fig play-wise. Chase figs nowdays are completely differnt figs. Want E2 Superman? Chase fig only. Zombie Hulk? Chase fig only. For fans of those characters, chase figures suck mightily.
Maybe you think I'm ranting, maybe you don't care.
Eh, most people probably haven't made it this far through your post. :p
Super rares show up on AVERAGE 1 in 3 boosters. Maybe not in your brick, but theres more to worry about then that at a larger packaging level.
Don't care. I really don't. I don't care what WK is worrying about at a 'larger packaging level'. I'm spending a ton of cash for some product and I expect certain things in return for that cash. If WK wants me to keep coming back as a customer, then they have to deliver the goods.
Besides, I would think a standard collation for cases would make things easier on WK at the packing level, not harder.
With HOT, SI, and some of the other recent sets in the last few years, the commons uncommons and regular rares WERE better than uniques of old sets. Things were done with powers that never had been tried before and vioala! GOOD REV were made. Imagine that!
Yeah, and then as soon as REVs became good, WK killed them. Imagine that!
vBulletin® v3.7.0, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.