Can Pip the troll???

[chrisgo316]

With his SP is he able to carry someone with the flight ability? If not than why?

[lancelot]

Because Fliers cannot be Carried, period.

[chrisgo316]

Because Fliers cannot be Carried, period.

Thank you for the response but where does it say that? We have looked in the FF rule book and we do not see that it says that.
canceled until the end of that turn and resumes effect at the beginning of
the next player’s turn.
character and has the Colossal Size ability. Colossal characters might have
special rules that are provided on the character’s character card or a
separate rules sheet.
Characters with the with the foot or dolphin speed symbol can be
carried. Characters with the foot transporter, wing transporter, or dolphin transporter speed symbol, duo attack symbol, or the giant or colossal damage symbols can’t be carried.

It doesn't say anything about standard wing symbols.

[Daky]

Its on page 17, under the "Carry" Special Ability

[lancelot]

It's a basic rule: Carriers cannot be Carried.

Fliers carry so they cannot be carried.

Let me try and find the relevant line:

Yep, page 17:

"Characters with the with the :m-boot: or :m-dolphin: speed symbol can be
carried.

Characters with the :m-boot-trans:, :m-wing-trans:, or :m-dolphin-trans: speed symbol, :g-giant: attack symbol, or the or :g-colossal: damage symbols can’t be carried."

Logic extends the :m-wing-trans: to a :m-wing: figure. Basically, it says that Carry only applies to :m-boot: or :m-dolphin: and nothing else.

[chrisgo316]

I am not trying to be disrespectful or anything so please do not take this as disrespect but if the logic was the issue than wouldn't it reverse the :m-boot: or the :m-dolphin: symbols so that they can not be carried? In other words why would it only apply to one and not the other two?


It's a basic rule: Carriers cannot be Carried.

Fliers carry so they cannot be carried.

Let me try and find the relevant line:

Yep, page 17:

"Characters with the with the :m-boot: or :m-dolphin: speed symbol can be
carried.

Characters with the :m-boot-trans:, :m-wing-trans:, or :m-dolphin-trans: speed symbol, :g-giant: attack symbol, or the or :g-colossal: damage symbols can’t be carried."

Logic extends the :m-wing-trans: to a :m-wing: figure. Basically, it says that Carry only applies to :m-boot: or :m-dolphin: and nothing else.

[Hero_guy]

It's a basic rule: Carriers cannot be Carried.

Fliers carry so they cannot be carried.

Let me try and find the relevant line:

Yep, page 17:

"Characters with the with the :m-boot: or :m-dolphin: speed symbol can be
carried.

Characters with the :m-boot-trans:, :m-wing-trans:, or :m-dolphin-trans: speed symbol, :g-giant: attack symbol, or the or :g-colossal: damage symbols can’t be carried."

Logic extends the :m-wing-trans: to a :m-wing: figure. Basically, it says that Carry only applies to :m-boot: or :m-dolphin: and nothing else.

I am not trying to be disrespectful or anything so please do not take this as disrespect but if the logic was the issue than wouldn't it reverse the :m-boot: or the :m-dolphin: symbols so that they can not be carried? In other words why would it only apply to one and not the other two?

Well, show me where it says that you can carry :m-wing:. The paragraph quoted states only that :m-boot: and :m-dolphin: can be carried. It does go on to state that :m-boot-trans: :m-wing-trans: :m-dolphin-trans: :a-duo: :g-giant: can't be carried. There is no room to argue that :m-wing: can be carried because it does not say that they can be in the first sentence. According to that sentence only characters with either :m-boot: or :m-dolphin: can be carried. It doesn't matter that :m-wing: wasn't included on the list of "can't be carried" because there is also a list of "can be carried". If you don't make the list of can be carried then you automatically fall into the list of can't be carried.

That being said, I'm sure it was just mistakenly omitted the same way that double based characters were from the carry rules. But there is no sentence in the flight rules or the double base rules that deal with being carried.

[Silver Lantern]

You probably don't realize it, but years ago, fliers could carry fliers. They changed the mechanics at some point. People hated it may cried sour grapes and quit the game over the rules change. It was the biggest rules change in Heroclix history along with no action after being carried. If you've played for more than 3-4 years you probably remember those rules and know for a fact that 1) fliers can't carry fliers, and 2) no non free actions can be taken by a carried figure after being carried. We're not all trying to trick you, its a fact like a second grader knows that the world is round. He may say, "but I can't see that it's round." It doesn't change the fact that it is. Likewise, fliers cannot carry fliers.

Hope this helps. :p

[flatmatt]

Well, show me where it says that you can carry :m-wing:. The paragraph quoted states only that :m-boot: and :m-dolphin: can be carried. It does go on to state that :m-boot-trans: :m-wing-trans: :m-dolphin-trans: :a-duo: :g-giant: can't be carried. There is no room to argue that :m-wing: can be carried because it does not say that they can be in the first sentence. According to that sentence only characters with either :m-boot: or :m-dolphin: can be carried. It doesn't matter that :m-wing: wasn't included on the list of "can't be carried" because there is also a list of "can be carried". If you don't make the list of can be carried then you automatically fall into the list of can't be carried.

That being said, I'm sure it was just mistakenly omitted the same way that double based characters were from the carry rules. But there is no sentence in the flight rules or the double base rules that deal with being carried.
Interestingly enough, it looks like Namora can be carried since she has :m-dolphin: and :m-wing: simultaneously, and the rulebook leaves :m-wing: off the "can't be carried" list.

[Jarosa]

So Pip can't be carried even though he's not a flier because he's a transporter. I thought so.

[DeadSurfer]

To be fair, this situation arised when we asked if Pip could carry Ronan. If you look at his stats, Pip's a transporter and all that. My thought was that, since Pip is not actually carrying him in the standard sense (i.e. lifting him up and moving away) but in the sense he's Phasing/Teleporting him away with him, it would work as that. This would go along with the logical following of the game as was mentioned earlier in reference to the Wing Transporter "devolving" to include the standard Wing symbol.

Thoughts?

[jak7890]

...My thought was that, since Pip is not actually carrying him in the standard sense (i.e. lifting him up and moving away) but in the sense he's Phasing/Teleporting him away with him, it would work as that. This would go along with the logical following of the game as was mentioned earlier in reference to the Wing Transporter "devolving" to include the standard Wing symbol.

Thoughts?

My initial thought is that the underlined section isn't remotely, logically related to the argument it references.

There are plenty of characters with Phasing/Teleport that don't get to carry; it's the transporter symbol that grants the carry ability, and only characters with the :m-dolphin: or :m-boot: symbols can be carried.

I would agree that Namora fits into the tiniest of loopholes because of the wording and omission of :m-wing: from the carry lists. Ronan still cannot be carried, however.

[imaleximsweet]

My initial thought is that the underlined section isn't remotely, logically related to the argument it references.

There are plenty of characters with Phasing/Teleport that don't get to carry; it's the transporter symbol that grants the carry ability, and only characters with the :m-dolphin: or :m-boot: symbols can be carried.

I would agree that Namora fits into the tiniest of loopholes because of the wording and omission of :m-wing: from the carry lists. Ronan still cannot be carried, however.

but she is a flier.

fliers cannot carry fliers...

its not like namor who has the "flight ability"

she posesses :m-wing: and we know that :m-wing: cannot be carried... fliers cannot carry fliers...

[Quebbster]

To be fair, this situation arised when we asked if Pip could carry Ronan. If you look at his stats, Pip's a transporter and all that. My thought was that, since Pip is not actually carrying him in the standard sense (i.e. lifting him up and moving away) but in the sense he's Phasing/Teleporting him away with him, it would work as that. This would go along with the logical following of the game as was mentioned earlier in reference to the Wing Transporter "devolving" to include the standard Wing symbol.

Thoughts?

You shouldn't try to apply real world logic in a Heroclix game. You'll only get frustrated.
but she is a flier.

fliers cannot carry fliers...

its not like namor who has the "flight ability"

she posesses :m-wing: and we know that :m-wing: cannot be carried... fliers cannot carry fliers...
That's the point: The rulebook no longer says that :m-wing: figures cannot be carried. It just says that you can carry :m-boot: and :m-dolphin: figures. The reason you cannot carry :m-wing: figures, therefore, is that they usually do not possess the :m-boot: or :m-dolphin: symbol.
Namora does however.

[flatmatt]

but she is a flier.

fliers cannot carry fliers...

its not like namor who has the "flight ability"

she posesses :m-wing: and we know that :m-wing: cannot be carried... fliers cannot carry fliers...
Under the rules as written in the Fantasic Four rulebook, characters with the :m-wing: symbol have never been able to be carried because there has never been a character with the :m-wing: symbol and one of the :m-dolphin: or :m-boot: symbols. That's different now, and whether intentional or not, the rules allow Namora to be carried.