Thor/Loki double mystics?

[sworded]

Since Thor/Loki have both Mystics and Avengers...

Would Thunderbolting the Avengers TA to Mystics or Arachnos cause opposing characters to take 2 clicks when damaging this fig?

[Milo Garret]

Well, they are already Mystics. Can you T-bolt to a TA you already have? I see no problem with Arachnos though. I'd say yes, and that is just mean...

[Silver Lantern]

OMFG...Rep inc!

[vamroc]

Since Thor/Loki have both Mystics and Avengers...

Would Thunderbolting the Avengers TA to Mystics or Arachnos cause opposing characters to take 2 clicks when damaging this fig?

Can't Thunderbolt to a T.A. already possesed by the charactor but the other two options of Cross Gen & Arachnos work just fine. But I'll warn people right now expect serious complaints with such a tactic as it might be seen in an unsportsman like light.

[imaleximsweet]

Can't Thunderbolt to a T.A. already possesed by the charactor but the other two options of Cross Gen & Arachnos work just fine. But I'll warn people right now expect serious complaints with such a tactic as it might be seen in an unsportsman like light.

can i tbolt to DC mystics? ;) just kidding, in a 400 point unrestricted battle, thor and loki will be able to hold their own and i love it.

[flatmatt]

Can't Thunderbolt to a T.A. already possesed by the charactor but the other two options of Cross Gen & Arachnos work just fine. But I'll warn people right now expect serious complaints with such a tactic as it might be seen in an unsportsman like light.
This isn't *technically* correct. You can Thunderbolts to Mystics, but it will have no additional effect.

[Maraud]

This isn't *technically* correct. You can Thunderbolts to Mystics, but it will have no additional effect.

but they can T-bolt to Archnos or Cross Gen.
They are diffrent TA's
This was made clear with jarvis and skrull and t-bolt to danger girl TA

[Indiana Ton]

So does that mean two clix of damage? One from Mystics, and one from CrossGen/Archnos?

[Pepsirox08]

and then add damage shield... 3 clicks everytime u hit thor/loki!! i dont think its beatable in a 400 point match!!

[Maraud]

So does that mean two clix of damage? One from Mystics, and one from CrossGen/Archnos?
Yes two clix per attack.

and then add damage shield... 3 clicks everytime u hit thor/loki!! i dont think its beatable in a 400 point match!!

You would also need to put AP on them to make the damage from Damage Shield go through Damage reducers.
Also would only be for melee attacks.

[flatmatt]

but they can T-bolt to Archnos or Cross Gen.
They are diffrent TA's
This was made clear with jarvis and skrull and t-bolt to danger girl TA
Yes, I'm just saying that if you want to Thunderbolts to the actual Mystics team ability, it's allowed, just ineffective. Though the only time this would make a difference, I suppose, is when you're playing in an unrestricted Marvel-only game and you want your other Avengers to have Mystics, heh.

[TopHatCat]

and then add damage shield... 3 clicks everytime u hit thor/loki!! i dont think its beatable in a 400 point match!!
Nice idea, doing my research you could always...
Add on Armor Piercing, Damage Shield & then Retaliation.
For a max of 5dmg on an attack. Unlikely, but Sweet.

[Paradox Factor]

Nice idea, doing my research you could always...
Add on Armor Piercing, Damage Shield & then (Afew) Retaliation(s).
For a max of 5dmg on an attack. Unlikely, but Sweet.

Yeah I thought the same ever since the play test dial was leaked. One thing though you could only have one Retaliation on them. Remember, no assigning multiples of the same feat to one character. Or else we'd have dozens of Protecteds to go through on tentpoles and Nightshade would always be accompanied by a 6 inch thick stack of Flashbangs.

[Harpua]

Yes, I'm just saying that if you want to Thunderbolts to the actual Mystics team ability, it's allowed, just ineffective. Though the only time this would make a difference, I suppose, is when you're playing in an unrestricted Marvel-only game and you want your other Avengers to have Mystics, heh.
Well, this raises an interesting thought.

Let's say that you do declare it with double Mystics (both Mystics, not Mystics and Archnos/CG).

If he gets Dissented, does he lose both? I'd say no.
Nice idea, doing my research you could always...
Add on Armor Piercing, Damage Shield & then (Afew) Retaliation(s).
For a max of 5dmg on an attack. Unlikely, but Sweet.

Yeah I thought the same ever since the play test dial was leaked. One thing though you could only have one Retaliation on them. Remember, no assigning multiples of the same feat to one character. Or else we'd have dozens of Protecteds to go through on tentpoles and Nightshade would always be accompanied by a 6 inch thick stack of Flashbangs.

I think that the "max of 5dmg" is saying that he rolled a 12 for 2 damage...not multiple cards.

[TopHatCat]

Remember, no assigning multiples of the same feat to one character.Shame you can't give Duo's 2... But yes that would be so abused :P And it did skip my mind, my bad.

[thebigZZZZZ]

well that s TOO MUCH! Heh, good thing that the Thunderbolts ATA is retired....I hope that NECA will reconsider that the new Thunderbolts ATA will be more specific and has to have a Thunderbolts' keywords...and cannot have double TA. :D who knows what NECA's WK will cook up in the future?

[Jarimy123]

Nothing is retired right now

And I am going to use:

Thor/Loki 362
Fortitude 25
Protected 8
Thunderbots 5

400 points

Need foritude IMO. If they outwide Duo Attack or Indomitable I think they don't stand a chance.

[spideyguy51]

To beat this thor and loki: use pulse waving thor buster or ultron!

[Pepsirox08]

To beat this thor and loki: use pulse waving thor buster or ultron!

swarm its m-11s. see if that works! lol

[Jarimy123]

Did see a Nova Blasting Ultron today. Sick. Robot theme with Red Tornado for TK. I played agaisnt it and won, but only KO'd Ahab

[larthosgrr8]

this is the perfect example of someone using a feat to find a loophole and just be plain cheesy! i thought you had to declair one TA at a time??? it just shows that the ppl who rule this game loves metagaming!! why else would you rule suck a thing?? i just took down thor and loki the other day, and it wasn't that bad! gamorra and and drax made short work of them!!!

all in all, old feats are the ONLY bad thing about wizkids not enforcing retirement!! just when you think the #### was gone, here it comes again!! feats my work for D.C. COMICS cause they just all rose from the dead!!

[artangelJMW]

If Wizkids and neca should remake the thunderbolts feat so it erratas the old broken one. Also, Thor and Loki can't be fortituded.

[Owlman]

this is the perfect example of someone using a feat to find a loophole and just be plain cheesy! i thought you had to declair one TA at a time??? it just shows that the ppl who rule this game loves metagaming!! why else would you rule suck a thing?? i just took down thor and loki the other day, and it wasn't that bad! gamorra and and drax made short work of them!!!

If you were able to beat a 362 point figure with figures that were a combined 257 points, then I don't think that being able to t-bolt to Arachnos is cheese, it just keeps Thor/Loki in the game and makes them even more competitive.

I can't believe that we're seeing complaints of cheese before we even see how well the piece plays with these feats.:cheeky:

[gandalf550]

It's all ready been brought up, and yes you can do it. Not double mystics mind you, but thunderbolting to arachnos or crossgen would work. Is it evil, deadly, and just plain wrong... oh yeah! But it is legal, so have fun and enjoy your opponent's misery.

[Clixkilla]

This was made clear with jarvis and skrull and t-bolt to danger girl TA

Jarvis, Ms/ Marvel and Dugan can use both TA's? HOLY FECAL MATTER!

I was away from the game for a while and I guess I missed somthing.

[FlatFootedBoy]

362 Thor & Loki
5 Thunderbolts to Arachnos
10 Damage Shield
8 Protected
6 Nanoarmor
8 CAMOUFLAGE
399 Total

Force 'em to come to you with Camouflage. Deal that 3 retaliation if they're not reducing.

[FlatFootedBoy]

Jarvis, Ms/ Marvel and Dugan can use both TA's? HOLY FECAL MATTER!

I was away from the game for a while and I guess I missed somthing.

Only Jarvis can use both, actually. The others have traits that specify they cannot.

[larthosgrr8]

If you were able to beat a 362 point figure with figures that were a combined 257 points, then I don't think that being able to t-bolt to Arachnos is cheese, it just keeps Thor/Loki in the game and makes them even more competitive.

I can't believe that we're seeing complaints of cheese before we even see how well the piece plays with these feats.:cheeky:

yeah...some would say that, but i'm a good player! what about all the players who aren't skilled enough to know how to get around something like that?? i know some ppl enjoy just winning at any cost, but it's still just not right!! also, how does making your opponent take two to three damage for simply hitting you make a figure competitive???

why does a 362 pt figure need to use tricks and loopholes to win?? how bout use good positioning and actually thinking before you move/act?? i'm so glad i don't play ppl like that in my area!!!

[Owlman]

yeah...some would say that, but i'm a good player! what about all the players who aren't skilled enough to know how to get around something like that?? i know some ppl enjoy just winning at any cost, but it's still just not right!! also, how does making your opponent take two to three damage for simply hitting you make a figure competitive???

why does a 362 pt figure need to use tricks and loopholes to win?? how bout use good positioning and actually thinking before you move/act?? i'm so glad i don't play ppl like that in my area!!!

Thor/Loki can only take 10 clicks of damage before they die. When your pieces can dish out EW, PW, and PB damage that bypasses Thor/Loki's reducers, he's going to need every advantage he can get. He'll be out-actioned, he's got to be very careful about positioning, and he's vulnerable to outwit. There's plenty of lower point pieces that could give Thor/Loki hell, so why shouldn't a player take every advantage possible?

More importantly, how is T-Bolting to Arachnos a trick or a loophole? It's the rules of the game. Should the owner of Thor/Loki pay points for a useless Avengers TA, or should the owner pay 5 points to actually get something out of the TA? I'm hardpressed to call it cheese when one plays a one-man tentpole team in a 400 point match.

[neutralmarkhot]

I suppose it's nasty if someone unexpectedly shows up and uses this tactic, but there are a lot of ways around it (PW, Incap, Posion) and like Owlman says a lot of ways to beat the piece in general. Maybe play some deep dial Mystics of your own. If T&L Duo attack you, they too will have to take two Mystics feedback damage.

[Harpua]

Nothing is retired right now

And I am going to use:

Thor/Loki 362
Fortitude 25
Protected 8
Thunderbots 5

400 points

Need foritude IMO. If they outwide Duo Attack or Indomitable I think they don't stand a chance.

Unfortunately, they cannot use Fortitude because they do not meet the prerequisite because of their :a-duo:.

[cramcompany]

Props for Cleverness

[mike_houghton]

yeah I dont agree with this to be cheesy or a loophole... He has two abilities... didnt the Spectre have Quint and JSA? was that a loophole? If we add a feat that uses one of those team abilities then we are cheesy? I simply dont follow that logic. Thor/Loki are tough enough as it is... adding a feat isnt going to make them that much tougher that you cant handle it :)

[Silver Lantern]

So with Damage Shield and Armor Piercing are the 3 damage you take from a T-bolted T&L unavoidable?? I.e. do they all trigger seperately? If so that's just sick.

[MrGlum]

I think that now that there isn't OP or judges, if all/most players in the community agreed, this tactic could be declared illegal by consensus.

I mean, the only thing most people will be doing with this is suffering it, so why not ban it? Is as simple as saying that "a figure can't have the same power or team ability twice (even if it's granted by different teams or team symbols)". What do you think?

[Harpua]

So with Damage Shield and Armor Piercing are the 3 damage you take from a T-bolted T&L unavoidable?? I.e. do they all trigger seperately? If so that's just sick.
The Mystics and Crossgen/Arachnos would basically be unavoidable. It's damage taken, which is pretty much the same as unavoidable.

Armor Piercing does not make damage unavoidable. It would make the damage unable to be reduced below 1. It could still be passed off via Mastermind or other things.

Just remember that the TA damage will be applied first in the order chosen by the active player...when the damage is taken. The Damage Shield is applied after the attack resolves.
I think that now that there isn't OP or judges, if all/most players in the community agreed, this tactic could be declared illegal by consensus.

I mean, the only thing most people will be doing with this is suffering it, so why not ban it? Is as simple as saying that "a figure can't have the same power or team ability twice (even if it's granted by different teams or team symbols)". What do you think?

I think that the set's been out for less than a week. I don't think that this means that there's any reason to panic about not having official rulings yet. A great deal of rulings on previous sets took a long time to come.

I think banning things is just a bad idea.
In this case, now you're adding a complexity which would be more of a nightmare than the problem at hand.

[imaleximsweet]

I think that now that there isn't OP or judges, if all/most players in the community agreed, this tactic could be declared illegal by consensus.

I mean, the only thing most people will be doing with this is suffering it, so why not ban it? Is as simple as saying that "a figure can't have the same power or team ability twice (even if it's granted by different teams or team symbols)". What do you think?

i think that that's bologna to the highest caliber.

banning something because it as a consensus is "disliked" doesn't make it against the rules.

If someone wants to run this figure this way, that is their right as per the rules.

Likewise if i want to run a Nova Blasting Ultron duo at around the same points, i can do the 8 clicks of damage to Thoki without taking any sort of reprocusions.

Is it silly for a person to do this? i dont think so, it is easily got around, just like every other tactic.

but banning something because there's a loophole, that is not ok in my book

[krusticlese]

If you haven't had a house rule instituted that only allows the Thunderbolts ATA to be assigned to characters with the Thunderbolts keyword... I'd highly suggest it.

Also, we currently have a rule that makes you select the T-Bolted TA they are using when you submit your team (prior to any matches).

I really don't need a swarm of Jarimy's showing up sucking all the fun out of a game because of a rules loophole while they cackle about how cool it is. :tired:

[Munchoboy]

I think banning things is just a bad idea.
In this case, now you're adding a complexity which would be more of a nightmare than the problem at hand.

Emphasis mine. I agree 100%

IMHO there is no need to ban anything in this game, it's one of the reasons I love Clix. Every strategy has its counters.

For example, if I were to encounter the Thor and Loki w/TBolts strategy more than once, I would just begin stacking my force with Mind Controllers and Incapacitaters. If my opponent's figures are the ones damaging Thor and Loki, no skin off my nose, and if my opponent never gets to use Thor and Loki, all the better. ;)

[Uberman]

If you haven't had a house rule instituted that only allows the Thunderbolts ATA to be assigned to characters with the Thunderbolts keyword... I'd highly suggest it.



In light of the ATAs coming with HOT, this seems like a no-brainer Errata to add to the old card, if they ever bother updating old stuff.

[Harpua]

I really don't need a swarm of Jarimy's showing up sucking all the fun out of a game because of a rules loophole while they cackle about how cool it is. :tired:

Man I hate quoting this as it puts those words in two posts, but I really wish there was an anti-rep button right now.:tired:

How does his team suck the fun out of the game?

[ShadowMark]

T-bolting would do nothing extra. Since you can only use one TA per action, only one click of mystic damage would be dealt.

[Maraud]

Also, we currently have a rule that makes you select the T-Bolted TA they are using when you submit your team (prior to any matches).


But the rules for T-Bolt is that you can change from match to match. Not just one for the whole tournament.


T-bolting would do nothing extra. Since you can only use one TA per action, only one click of mystic damage would be dealt.

nothing in the rules say that you can not use more than one TA per action.
This was ruled on with Jarvis and his T-Bolt to danger girl.
One roll for danger girl
one roll for Skrull.

[Harpua]

T-bolting would do nothing extra. Since you can only use one TA per action, only one click of mystic damage would be dealt.

Following up on Maraud's correct answer...

The rulebook says that wild cards can only use one TA per action. T&L is not a wild card.

[ShadowMark]

Point taken, Harpua. But seeing as this is only the second fig in the game to garner the duo TA on the dial, I expect a rules change to happen for this reason.

The wildcard TA was given that ruling to avoid things similar to this from happening. For now, since there is no rule, that would work.

This also makes Thor/Loki extremely worth the 362 points, more now than before

[Maraud]

Point taken, Harpua. But seeing as this is only the second fig in the game to garner the duo TA on the dial, I expect a rules change to happen for this reason.

The wildcard TA was given that ruling to avoid things similar to this from happening. For now, since there is no rule, that would work.

This also makes Thor/Loki extremely worth the 362 points, more now than before

no its not the second one out with more than one TA.
you have Spectre JSA and Q
you have Nightwing Teen Tiatins, Outsider, batman.
Jarvis Skrull, Avengers
Thor and Loki Avengers, Mystic
Worlds Finest Batman, Superman

all can use those TA's on any given action.
Just because you don't like how one figure out of all these works does not merit a change in the rules.
many people thought it was cheesy to run Danger Girl/Skrull with Jarvis but no rule change, and was actually rules to allow the two similar TA's be used at one time.
If anything they would errata the LE Thug to allow the use of a WC and the Anti-batman TA at the same time.

[Munchoboy]

Point taken, Harpua. But seeing as this is only the second fig in the game to garner the duo TA on the dial, I expect a rules change to happen for this reason.

Emphasis mine.

*ahem*

Third figure to have two TAs printed on the dial; Worlds Finest, Jarvis, and Thor and Loki.


:laugh: ;)

[edit]Maraud's examples arecorrect as well. Multiple TAs is nothing new to the game. :classic:

[ShadowMark]

Thank you munchoboy.

Maraud, which Nightwing has THREE TA's?

Was Jarivs errated, because mine only has Skrull on the dial (avengers on card)?

The rules change would be addressed because other than Jarvis, this is the first figure to use two TA's on one action. Every other figure has TA's that occur on different actions. Like I said, the Wildcard rule was made to prevent stuff like this from happening.
Also, if you read all the way through, I accepted the ruling and will follow it until, or if, there is a change

[Maraud]

Thank you munchoboy.

Maraud, which Nightwing has THREE TA's?

Was Jarivs errated, because mine only has Skrull on the dial (avengers on card)?

The rules change would be addressed because other than Jarvis, this is the first figure to use two TA's on one action. Every other figure has TA's that occur on different actions. Like I said, the Wildcard rule was made to prevent stuff like this from happening.
Also, if you read all the way through, I accepted the ruling and will follow it until, or if, there is a change

Nightwing from Crisis.
DUAL MEMBERSHIP: Nightwing can use the Outsiders and Titans team abilities and possesses the Outsiders and Titans team symbols.
And has Batman TA on the dial.

jarvis does have both TA's look in units.

anything that has the batman TA and superman TA both are active at the same time.

They made WC's where they could not copy more than one TA at a time but due to the wording it hurt them with the LE Henchmen.

[neutralmarkhot]

And to add some spice to the discussion, technically all ATA'd figs have two TAs. One that they are using, and the one that Wilcards can copy. Wildcards can no longer copy TAs from feat cards (a.k.a. ATAs), but they can still copy the original TA. So a Thunderbolted figure can still lend out his/her free-moving Avengers TA to wildcards. But that's just technically speaking and having a broad definition of "using" a TA.

[ClixCommander]

Why can't Thor and Loki have fortitude? You said this is because they have the Duo Attack Symbol?

The Prereqs for Fortitude are standard damage symbol. As far as I can tell they have that, so what's the deal?

[Harpua]

Why can't Thor and Loki have fortitude? You said this is because they have the Duo Attack Symbol?

The Prereqs for Fortitude are standard damage symbol. As far as I can tell they have that, so what's the deal?

The prereq is the :a-fist:.

[ibeatdrew]

Even though they are a DUO figure I don't think the damage from doubling the TA would be treated as such. When they take damage you don't deal damage twice.

example:
Someone deals 4 damage. You don't deal damage as 4 for Thor then click 4 for Loki. you only do it once because the dial represents the two of them. Even though they have two TA's and you could Thunderbolt one, I still think they would only take that damage once.

I don't think Mystics/Mystics would be any different for dealing damage back. It would just be 1 click from both of them.

Anyone who would try to do otherwise I think would not be actually playing the game in the spirit it was meant to be played.

Just my 2 cents.

[Maraud]

Even though they are a DUO figure I don't think the damage from doubling the TA would be treated as such. When they take damage you don't deal damage twice.

example:
Someone deals 4 damage. You don't deal damage as 4 for Thor then click 4 for Loki. you only do it once because the dial represents the two of them. Even though they have two TA's and you could Thunderbolt one, I still think they would only take that damage once.

I don't think Mystics/Mystics would be any different for dealing damage back. It would just be 1 click from both of them.

Anyone who would try to do otherwise I think would not be actually playing the game in the spirit it was meant to be played.

Just my 2 cents.

yet we have had this OFFICIALLY ruled on that you can have two TA's that do the same thing go off. (Danger Girl and Skrull)
This is no different of two similar TA's going off due to one action.

[ibeatdrew]

yet we have had this OFFICIALLY ruled on that you can have two TA's that do the same thing go off. (Danger Girl and Skrull)
This is no different of two similar TA's going off due to one action.

true....but that is a stupid ruling...not in the spirit of the game...another reason the "DC/INDY/MARVEL" realities shouldn't mix in the game of Clix...too much room for brokeness.

Do you have a link where that was OFFICIALLY ruled?

[ShadowMark]

Even though they are a DUO figure I don't think the damage from doubling the TA would be treated as such. When they take damage you don't deal damage twice.

example:
Someone deals 4 damage. You don't deal damage as 4 for Thor then click 4 for Loki. you only do it once because the dial represents the two of them. Even though they have two TA's and you could Thunderbolt one, I still think they would only take that damage once.

I don't think Mystics/Mystics would be any different for dealing damage back. It would just be 1 click from both of them.

Anyone who would try to do otherwise I think would not be actually playing the game in the spirit it was meant to be played.

Just my 2 cents.

I think you are right. The Danger Girl/ Skrull is the same as Skrull shape change. If you try one, then another it's attempting twice the attack, but two separate powers.

I agree with the above, on double mystics and on the mixing of universes. But, if someone does T-bolt the Avengers, a different TA similar to that of Mystics would work.
On the fact that T/L are dealt damage, then mystics activates, then the other TA activates. Much like the Skrull/ Danger Girl.
Is Is it in the spirit of the game? Probably not, but expect to see a lot of Skrull Yellow Jackets when a Thor/ Loki pops out.

[gudda]

This is why i am glad we dont have an official Rules Arbitor .. Venues and play groups can decide how they want to play.

[malakim2099]

Man I hate quoting this as it puts those words in two posts, but I really wish there was an anti-rep button right now.:tired:

How does his team suck the fun out of the game?

I've played against Jarimy, and he's been a fun opponent. I don't think he sucks the fun out of the game. :)

[Maraud]

This is why i am glad we dont have an official Rules Arbitor .. Venues and play groups can decide how they want to play.

Yet they should play by the rules laid out.
just because there is no RA or errata does not mean that we don't have answers.
granted some power we do need errata/clarification on.
but things like this and other things that we have answers on should be straight forward.

If you play it bot by the rules then why play and buy the game?
Go make up your own game with your own rules.

The above is geared towards tournament play.

now i understand for fun you can make up you own rules and if the game group does not have a problem with it then so be it. But when you have someone come in PLEASE PLEASE let them know that the way you are playing is no officially the rules and are house rules.

[ShadowMark]

This is why i am glad we dont have an official Rules Arbitor .. Venues and play groups can decide how they want to play.

That's always fun. But, ignoring the rules and knowing them-but playing by "house" rules- are two different things.
It's always good to know the rules when playing in official tournaments (if they will ever come back), but house rules are just as fun. I, myself play by some fun house rules, to keep things interesting and fun.

But, I still would like to know rulings on some newer pieces and as the game evolves.

[adamkomar]

Can someone link to an explanation of why Thunderboltsing to Mystics with Thor and Loki doesn't trigger both instances of the team ability? I play judge for my group and I can't enforce a rule that I don't understand.

[Maraud]

Can someone link to an explanation of why Thunderboltsing to Mystics with Thor and Loki doesn't trigger both instances of the team ability? I play judge for my group and I can't enforce a rule that I don't understand.

I do not believe it is actually in the PG.
But what was stated was that a figure can not benefit from the same TA multiple times for one action.
So since it would be Mystic/Mystic it is the same TA.
where as if it was Mystic/Cross Gen or Mystic/Archnos it is two different TA's triggering, although they are similar they are separate TA's.

Edit:
This is the only thing that i can see that shows it.
I believe it may have been on the official Wizkids web site where it was ruled this way.
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253593&highlight=Jarvis

[adamkomar]

That doesn't supply an explanation, but so much as a, "Because I said so". That doesn't fly with me. Thanks, though.

My question being, "Why can't a character benefit from the same TA multiple times during a single action?"

If it's a nerf just to nerf then I don't enforce it.

[Maraud]

That doesn't supply an explanation, but so much as a, "Because I said so". That doesn't fly with me. Thanks, though.

My question being, "Why can't a character benefit from the same TA multiple times during a single action?"

If it's a nerf just to nerf then I don't enforce it.

Then you should not be a judge.

So you don't enforce the -2 to cary
So you don't enforce the NAAT
So you don't enforce Rule of 3

all nerfs. so i guess you don't rulle that you have to follow them?

Another way to look at it is I declare i am using Skrull TA roll d6. roll a 3 failed. Ok i use Skrull TA again wait u tried to be a skrull all ready.
This is actually one that makes sense. how can you be a skrull more than one time?

[adamkomar]

You should pay better attention.

I said I don't enforce nerfs that are there just to nerf. When there's no logical explanation for the nerf then I don't enforce it.

There's a logical explanation for -2 to movement when carrying. A character moves slower when it's carrying more weight than it normally does.

There's a logical explanation for NAAT. An action happens within a very small amount of time. There's only enough time for one character to take an action when carrying another. While there is an order to the actions taken in a turn, if the battle were actually occurring, there wouldn't be time for a carrying character and the character it's carrying to both do something within the same amount of time that any other character takes an action.

There's a logical explanation for the rule of 3. No matter how big or small, everything has its limits. A 20-oz. bottle currently holding only 10 ounces could only ever hold 20 ounces. A 12-oz. can only holding 6 ounces can only ever hold 12 ounces. A character with a 10 attack can only ever get as high as a 13 attack.

I can justify allowance of doubling-up on a team ability just as easily as you can justify not allowing it.

Two instances of the same ability can show that a character is better at using the effect than other characters with the ability. As much as they should be, team abilities aren't always assigned to characters because they're actually associated with the team. Sometimes, they're given it just because they're capable of producing the team ability's effect. In the case of Mystics, the character could just have more potent magic than other Mystics characters.

Two instances of the same ability can be a representation of a character's ability to alter probability or just make an opposing character second guess what they heard or saw. This is an instance for two instances of the Skrulls team ability.

So when someone gives a logical explanation for not allowing a character to use two instances of the same team ability that supersedes all logical explanations that allow it, I'll gladly enforce it.

[adamkomar]

Double post.

[Harpua]

You should pay better attention.

I said I don't enforce nerfs that are there just to nerf. When there's no logical explanation for the nerf then I don't enforce it.

There's a logical explanation for -2 to movement when carrying. A character moves slower when it's carrying more weight than it normally does.

There's a logical explanation for NAAT. An action happens within a very small amount of time. There's only enough time for one character to take an action when carrying another. While there is an order to the actions taken in a turn, if the battle were actually occurring, there wouldn't be time for a carrying character and the character it's carrying to both do something within the same amount of time that any other character takes an action.

There's a logical explanation for the rule of 3. No matter how big or small, everything has its limits. A 20-oz. bottle currently holding only 10 ounces could only ever hold 20 ounces. A 12-oz. can only holding 6 ounces can only ever hold 12 ounces. A character with a 10 attack can only ever get as high as a 13 attack.

I can justify allowance of doubling-up on a team ability just as easily as you can justify not allowing it.

Two instances of the same ability can show that a character is better at using the effect than other characters with the ability. As much as they should be, team abilities aren't always assigned to characters because they're actually associated with the team. Sometimes, they're given it just because they're capable of producing the team ability's effect. In the case of Mystics, the character could just have more potent magic than other Mystics characters.

Two instances of the same ability can be a representation of a character's ability to alter probability or just make an opposing character second guess what they heard or saw. This is an instance for two instances of the Skrulls team ability.

So when someone gives a logical explanation for not allowing a character to use two instances of the same team ability that supersedes all logical explanations that allow it, I'll gladly enforce it.
I need to find out where you play so I can come use Pounce on my 2 damage guy and hit with a heavy object.

[imaleximsweet]

That doesn't supply an explanation, but so much as a, "Because I said so". That doesn't fly with me. Thanks, though.

My question being, "Why can't a character benefit from the same TA multiple times during a single action?"

If it's a nerf just to nerf then I don't enforce it.

Because you can only be a member of a certain team one time.

Nightwing cant benifit from Teen Titans twice because giving him two "Titan membership cards" doesnt mean he gets two bedrooms in the Titan tower.

redundancy seems to be logical explanation. and to keep the rule consistant, this will apply to things like double mystics. but also would allow you to hold dual or triple membership.

thats the best i got

[adamkomar]

I need to find out where you play so I can come use Pounce on my 2 damage guy and hit with a heavy object.

My house or a friend's house. C'mon over.

[Chargers]

Wow, what a devious plan. And clever.

I wouldn't worry about it being abused or needing errata. You may see it used as a gimmick, but you won't see it winning consistently as others have noted some good counter figures.

The official ruling is that both TAs are active at all times. And since it's the ruling, that's what's enforceable -- no house rules, or consensus, or logical explanation, or other rationale should override the rules.

[psycho69]

i don't know what you are all arguing about. thor and loki can still be ko'd with double feedback on every attack. i played them with the batman ta and ruled the board. if your opponent can't see you, they can't outwit you. and dealing 9 damage from ten range isn't bad either. just my thoughts.

Rob

[vamroc]

Personally I'd rather Thunderbolt to Batman T.A. and give them Brilliant Tactician talk about FREAKIN BRUTAL. It's every figure they share a keyword or team symbol with and boy what a list of Keywords Asgardian, Deity, Mystical, Warrior
Team Abilities Avengers & Mystics
Yeah Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch, both DC and Marvel Ares, TRIGON, Tempest, Power man & Iron Fist, the list is HUGE.

[zero_cochrane]

Personally I'd rather Thunderbolt to Batman T.A. and give them Brilliant Tactician talk about FREAKIN BRUTAL. It's every figure they share a keyword or team symbol with and boy what a list of Keywords Asgardian, Deity, Mystical, Warrior
Team Abilities Avengers & Mystics
Yeah Dr. Strange, Scarlet Witch, both DC and Marvel Ares, TRIGON, Tempest, Power man & Iron Fist, the list is HUGE.The list is indeed huge, but after you've spent 382 points on Thor and Loki with Brilliant Tactician, how many allies can you really afford?

[adamkomar]

The list is indeed huge, but after you've spent 382 points on Thor and Loki with Brilliant Tactician, how many allies can you really afford?

Some of us play 2000-pt. games frequently. :devious: