Silver Surfer Vs Superman!!!! [Archive]

spidernate

02/13/2003, 13:15

this is my Surfer, I made sure that he didn't go over the 200pt mark, I got him clocked in at 198, but he should have been even more powerful than I made him if you ask me.

Flying, 2 Arrows, 10 Range, Defender

14(rs), 14(rs), 13(rs), 13(rs), 12, 11, 10, 9, 9, 8
12,(ee), 12(ee), 11(ee), 11(ee), 10(ee), 10(ee),9,9,8,8,
18(inv), 18(inv), 17(inv), 17(t), 16(t), 16(t), 15(esd), 15(esd), 14(esd) 14(esd)
4,4,3,3,3,2,2,1(sup),1(sup)

I also wanted to give him hypersonic but then I thought about the second half of the attack i.e. the multi punch attack, and that doesn't represent Surfer well, so I stuck with Running Shot

Energy explosion on his first 6 to represent his energy blasts

Inv. and Toughness to show how much damage he can take and then deflection at the end of his dial (I'm pretty sure he can make force fields around himself)

And finally support at the end to show his power to rearange molecules and heal people.

I tried not to put him on LE Sups level because then he just really isn't playable at a standard 200 or 300 point tourny

Any feedback would be cool

gelf13

02/13/2003, 13:33

Flying, 2 Arrows, 10 Range, Defender
14(rs), 14(rs), 13(rs), 13(rs), 12, 11, 10, 9, 9, 8
12,(ee), 12(ee), 11(ee), 11(ee), 10(ee), 10(ee),9,9,8,8,
18(inv), 18(inv), 17(inv), 17(t), 16(t), 16(t), 15(esd), 15(esd), 14(esd) 14(esd)
4,4,3,3,3,2,2,1(sup),1(sup)
This is good work. one minor quibble: IMO, I would think that charge or HS might be a better reflection of SS's tactics than RS. He swoops in and smacks somebody and then flies off.
I also don't get the support, I'd rather see some perplex or outwit at the end of his dial.
Gelf

JustFrodo

02/13/2003, 13:39

One more tiny quibble, yours is better than I came up with, but I would still give him just one arrow. I always picture Surfy putting his hands together for one Cosmic Blast.

Melkoloran

02/13/2003, 13:43

I agree with the one arrow, but does SS actually get into all that many fist fights? I always remembered him blasting people.

CyberVenom

02/13/2003, 13:54

Here's my Silver Surfer (I'm not good with specifics, so bare with me :D ) This is for the R/E/V/U versions. So mix and match the powers at will.

High Cost; High Speed; High Attack; High Defense; 4 or 5 Damage; 10 range with 2 bolts (for each hand)

Speed Powers: Force Blast; Hypersonic Speed; Running Shot
Attack Powers: Energy Explosion; Pulse Wave
Defense Powers: ES/D; Barrier; Invulnerability; Toughness; Defend; maybe even Inpervious
Damage Powrs: Enhancement; RCE; maybe Outwit
R=No Team; E/V=Fantastic Four

Vegeta1

02/13/2003, 14:38

Whoa!

I'll say it again, you guys are giving Surfer WAAAYY too much on the numbers.

The man, although powerful, is NOT more powerful than Thor.

CyberVenom

02/13/2003, 14:47

Surfer is waaaaay more powerful than Thor.

Random

02/13/2003, 14:58

Lord, thor has NOTHING over the Surfer.

Heretic

02/13/2003, 14:59

Thor and Silver Surfer are about the same power level. The one major fight they had, Loki was jacking up his power level w/ out his knowing and he was beating thor but on a fair fight, they would be close.
I think that SS should drop a little quicker than you have him as he tends to use his reserves of energy and requires a reboost from solar radiation. Perhaps Regeneration near the end as you have him practically unhealable w/ his high defence.

spidernate

02/13/2003, 15:07

yeah I'll definetly tweek him a little bit, I still think that RS works a little better for him, but I might put some charge latter down the dial, but I still want to keep him under 200. back to the original thread here Surfer would woop any Superman out there, the mama's boy has nothin on the power cosmic.

Clix776

02/13/2003, 15:12

Originally posted by Heretic
I think that SS should drop a little quicker than you have him as he tends to use his reserves of energy and requires a reboost from solar radiation. Perhaps Regeneration near the end as you have him practically unhealable w/ his high defence.
I disagree with the first portion of this statement, but I agree with the second. Ironically, my reason for both of these is the same: the "Check the Nametag" clause.

Typically, when Silver Surfer gets in a fight, he gets smacked around at the front end, and when he should be fatiguing and taking it hard, he suddenly remembers "Hey! I'm the Silver Surfer, most powerful of Galactus' Heralds! Well, duh!" and then proceeds to do nothing more fancy then hurl more powerful energy bolts and zip around faster than he did previously to defeat the enemy. Hence, the "Check the Nametag" clause.

I feel this would be well represented by Regeneration, as when the villain thinks he has the Surfer beat, all of a sudden he's back up in the gravy clicks. And I disagree with the "drop like a rock" part because they need to be gravy clicks or the "Check the Nametag" clause won't work.

Have a Great Day,
Gary E. Poisson

WarHULK

02/13/2003, 15:42

Well, shouldn't he start off with good stats then get great stats after being beat on like Blastaar does? Maybe even a good start, drop a little then a big boost. After the big boost he should drop pretty well after 2 clicks then regen on the 4th after that so if you roll good you'll end on his best click.

Vegeta1

02/13/2003, 22:21

“Surfer is waaaaay more powerful than Thor.”

Uh, no. The Surfer HIMSELF admitted this.

“Thor and Silver Surfer are about the same power level. The one major fight they had, Loki was jacking up his power level w/ out his knowing and he was beating thor but on a fair fight, they would be close.”

Actually, Thor was holding back in that fight. The Surfer himself admitted this.

alstaire

02/13/2003, 23:06

I believe Surfer is more powerful than Thor.

He's faster. Lightspeed my man.
Tougher. Virtually Indestructable Skin.
Much Better Reserves of Energy. Power Cosmic
Power. He can manipulate molecules.
... and doesn't need air to breath.

Um, Thor can hold his breath, but for how long.
Tough invulnerable skin? He bled against Juggernaut, Ulik, Herc, Hulk and Gladiator.
He can fight at peak level for days before tiring. Days...
He can summon lightning and control the weather. Create portals and mystical fields using his hammer.

Compare. You decide.

Thor is a great warrior and has great endurance. (And I'm a fan of his too.) If the fight is in space (and at this magnitude of power, it should) The fight would be close at first but on the long run the Surfer will outlast Thor.

Just my two cents.

Mjolnir

02/13/2003, 23:17

This is the comics.... rarely do two characters really go at it. someone is always holding back.
yes, the Surfer tendfs to have potentially greater powers than the most of the other Marvel characters...But have really ever seen him do anything?
I think Silver Surfer vs Thor would be a cool fight. My money is on Thor Though.:p

Superman could wipeout the Surfer(pun intended :D ) as long as they kept it in a yellow sun system. It would be bloody and last a long time.....but the zbig Red S would be standing in the end...or at least breathing heavy and leaning on something.

dplanas

02/13/2003, 23:23

As much as I hate to admit it.

Surfer would wipe up Sups. Same reason I know Sups would beat Thor. He's just to fast. Far faster than Clark can react.

Manchine

02/13/2003, 23:24

Surfer vs Super Man is a close match up. Surfer should win.

Surfer Vs Thor if Thor uses his hammer thor wins. Surfer is fast but he fades to quickly in a fight.

This isnt even counting Thor with the power of Odin. So Thor is just so much better.

Edit

And no way would Super Man beat Thor. Sorry specially with his odin power.

Teletran

02/14/2003, 02:21

I'm a big Thor fan but in a fight with Surfer, I'd give Surfer 7 out of ten. 3 goes to Thor because of his unbelievable endurance and unyielding tenacity. But Surfer possesses far superior power in a greater scale.

With that quote, I mean the Classic Silver Surfer and not the pansy Surfer right now who seems either, too peaceful, too pacifist-like, too weak, and too easy to take down.

Back in an issue a few years back, Surfer just tried to talk to Hulk while Hulk attacked with fury... but Surfer just came back all the time and in the end attempted to draw out Hulk's gamma radiation away. Hulk barely registered a nuisance to Surfer. That's the Surfer I'm talking about.

Now against Supes, I see Surfer winning ALL the time. Thor versus Superman though, I give a 50-50 depending on the situation. If Supes goes all ou using all his speed and might immediately, I see Thor going down. But if Thor's prepared and knows about Superman's speed and strength, he'd be more prepared to take the first punch and retaliate with an earth shattering blow with his magic hammer which should break almost every bone Superman has. MAGIC hammer = Superman being vulnerable to it. With Thor's strength backing up that force, it'd be a miracle if Superman survives a single blow. Before anyone comes up with the superspeed issue, well... Thor has fought speedsters before and has triumphed. Thor is no slowpoke. And if Superman has problems dealing with bruisers like Solomon Grundy, I can't really see why Thor will have any problems fighting Superman at all.

Just a note: I like Surfer and Superman just as well. Thor's my fave and I'm happy the way he is. Currently, he inherited Odin's power and is not the Lord of Asgard. Lord Thor can easily dispatch the combined might of the whole JLA and Avengers in a snap.

CKent

02/14/2003, 02:51

uh... if Thor cant break a single bone in Hulk with repeated blows of his 'magic hammer' there is no way he can do that to Supes with a single strike...

look at how Supes always handed Hulk his ### in all those Marvel/ DC crossovers... I know the stories suck but thats the only way we can compare Supes and Thor's strength, by seeing how easily (or not in Thor's case) they handle Hulk... now, I know all u Hulk fans might be saying that these battles dont count because they dont occur in the regular Marvel/DC continuity, but the fact is that of the 2 times Ive read Hulk and Supes (once pre crisis, once post crisis) going at it, Supes spanked Hulk like he was his daddy... I know, I know youre saying how I can use such ####py writing as evidance but the fact remains that the 'people' at DC and the 'people' at marvel agree to have these 2 characters fight and agreed that Supes should kick Hulk's ###... and since we're subscribing to their 'world', reading their stuff, we have to conclude that Supes can kick Hulk's ### easily...

...therefore, like it or not... Supes would probably win against Thor... until they really duke it out we would never know for sure :)

... Wizard featured Thor vs Captain Marvel (SHAZAM) in their magazine, and Marvel was pretty much kicking Thor's ### before Thor mistakingly summoned a lightningbolt that transform Marvel; back to the wee boy... I know that didnt happen either...

but my point is that if we are comparing 2 heroes from seperate 'universes' we just have to take the writer's word for it when they decided to do their sorry crossovers... it sucks but thats all we fanboys have...

if u dont like it...try getting a job at either of the companies so you can change it...:)

maybe Thor and Supes will battle it out in the JLA/ Avengers crossover coming up :)

Surfer and Supes would be a cool fight... I would have to go with Supes though... for no other reason than I like him better... :)

CKent

02/14/2003, 02:56

oh, I dont mean the Odin powered Thor... just the plain Thor, no belt of strength, not armor, no gauntlets, just the clean shaven hippie...

but the Odin powered Thor would pretty much own everyone...
except Firelord....:)

Brunt

02/14/2003, 03:10

Well, in June 1997 issue #70 of Wizard did an article called "Last man Standing".

In that article they, and I quote “Gathered up all the superheroes in comicdom, pitted them against one-another and determined not only who the 10 most powerful superheroes are, but how they placed on that Top 10 list”

The criteria for placement was as follows:
1) Only superheroes allowed. No Villains or Ridiculously cosmic beings of a higher “universal” order (like Galactus, Highfather, Neron of Mephisto)
2) This was treated as a no-holds-barred, do-or-die contest.

For each Character they give a history and why they placed in their respective locations. In addition to that they also added how each Character would beat who is below them, i.e How #9 beat #10, how #8 beat #9 and #10, how #7 beat #8, #9 and #10, etc, etc, etc.

Now here is the list

10 – Hulk
9 – Firestorm
8 – Professor X
7 – Spawn
6 – Dr. Strange
5 – Flash
4 – Wonder Woman
3 – Superman
2 – Thor
1 – Silver Surfer

The reason they put him #1 – “The Surfer is the fringe character that separates humanity from the omnipotence of Galactus or Eternity, making him tops on our list. His power cosmic is so powerful that it’s not a matter of what the Surfer can do, it’s more what he can’t. Matter-manipulation, the power reserves of stars, traveling at lightspeed…he may even be able to create life. He’s truly in a power class of his own.”

They did say in the recap second of the Thor vs. SS fight that they are “fairly evenly matched” but SS would win in the end. On a personal note I totally agree with this list and think this is the best article I have read in Wizard in my years of reading Wizard.

Brunt ForceTrauma

The Sandman

02/14/2003, 03:11

(sigh)
Vegeta1 old friend, we meet again. (twirls mustache)

I remember the comic you speak of, but Surfer is the epitome of never going all out till absolutely needed. Some writers have him getting knocked all over the place, yet others have him standing up to Abomination (remember that classic) and the big A was nothing more than a nuisance. I sometimes wonder what they really intended with him. He's supposed to be the most powerful of the Heralds, Terrax and the Air Walker mopped up the FF in their particular battles, but SS takes out Terrax pretty easily. I like to think that the reason SS never really hurts anyone, is he is too busy writing poetry in his head about lost Lenore (I mean...I don't remember her name) and his planet, that he can get beat up before he realizes 'hey, I am in trouble" and proceeds to fight.

As to Supes, people, come on. He battles Darkseid straight up (a "new" god for those who don't follow DC), he's not extra vunerable to magic as people seem to interpret that phrase. He is simply vunerable to magic like anyone else, does not have special protection from it, not he dies on impact from Thor's hammer, how silly would that be? Also, 1 thing people seem to forget is if Captain America, Wonder Woman, Storm, and Beta Ray Bill can lift his hammer, then Supes should by all rights be able to do so. Now, think about him with Thor's hammer, scary.

Now, Thor with Odin's power, that's another story. But does anyone wonder why they are starting to pump Iron Man's power up. He just stood toe to toe with Thor (enhanced and all). Sure he was powered by asgardian magic, but once they open that can up where else will they go. Anyway, they almost seem to make Thor not as powerful as Odin was, or they write him as not yet figuring out Physical confrontations were not always needed with Odin. I hope they get thru this phase soon, they are in danger of making him the next 70's Superman, way too powerful to write anything interesting or believable. Anyhow, Vegeta1, fire away.

Until Heimdall sleeps thru his alarm clock, have a good night all.

Teletran

02/14/2003, 03:21

CKent,

Thor's MAGIC hammer should break every bone in Superman's body.. why?

When Supes held WW's sword (Kingdom Come), he cut himself with it. Diana said that Supes has always been susceptible to magic.

Having magic does not automatically mean Superman loses... but imagine if Diana, with her near Superman strength, successfully slashes Superman with it.... what have you got? A probably dead Superman.... a decapitated Superman... or a shish-kebob whatever kryptonian.

Thor's hammer should do the same. Supes will feel it's attack as if he were a simple mortal person hit with a normal hammer but backed by Thor's legendary strength. Maybe you can imagine a really big muscleman swing a big heavy warhammer at hit you with all his might. Now tell me that won't break your bones.

Hulk's fists are nothing mystical of the sort. That's why Superman can withstand it.

hope this clears what I meant. :)

(I like Superman too but unfortunately, Thor's hammer should defeat him easily as it should be)

As for Shazam, he didn't own Thor as much as Thor not owning Cap Marvel. Marvel got tied up with the circus wheel and he willfully "SHAZAM"ed to get his way out... but Thor intercepted the lightining bolt and thus knocking them both out. But of course, an unconscious Thor should wake up earlier than an unconscious Billy Batson. Check the issue again to confirm. ;)

Cheers!

Teletran

02/14/2003, 03:42

Hello Sandman!

Vegeta1 must be tired of defending Thor so I'll chip in a bit.

Why can't I like Darkseid?!? It's always... the OMEGA beams... omega beam this and omega beam that.... sorry but I really find that unimaginative. Darkseid always brags about his Omega beams that no one can survive it and guess what? Lots have survived it. Darkseid's acting like Thor when Thor goes all bragging about being the son of Odin and all but WITHOUT backing it up. Why? Heheh... because Thor's a hero and he wins while Darkseid's a bad villain who loses. :p

As for the Superman against magic thing, well... you explained it already. Magic affects Superman just like most others... therefore, Supes will feel the brunt of the blow just like most others as well. But this time, his invulnerable skin won't be as effective in blocking out the damage as it would against Thor's fists or Hulk's for that matter.

CKent

02/14/2003, 03:48

Teletran,

Im not talking about the Marvel/DC crossover where Thor and Capt Marvel fought... I know what happened in that crossever also...

Im talking about the Wizard "Last Man Standing' monthly column about 2 months back... Thor vs Capt Marvel...

also you misunderstood me... Im not saying Hulk's fists should effect Supes the same way Thor's hammer does... Im just pointing out that if Thor cant break Hulk's or Absorbing Man's or Hercules or Juggernaut's or Gladiator's .... bones with multiple blows of his hammer...what makes you think he will be able to shatter every bone in Supe's body with one blow?

Does Superman have some advanced form of Kryptonian osteoporosis? :)

I agree with what the Sandman said... just because Supes can be hurt by magic that doesnt mean that he is extremely vulnerable, or more vulnerable to magic than you or I... means he's like a normal dude when it comes to magical attacks... just like Hulk or any other brusier I mentioned above... well except maybe Juggy:)

so if Thor cant break those guys with his hammer, he wont be able to do that to Supes either...

CKent

02/14/2003, 04:11

Brunt,

There are some impressive characters on that list but the list is very incomplete...if it is a do or die scenerio... for example... do or die between Hulk vs. Shadowcat (hehe)...

Hulk couldnt touch her... Kitty phases Hulk into the ground... comes back up... the end...

very simplistic but thats what I would do if I had her powers and given the situation...

and Prof X could pretty much 'suggest' everyone on that list to swallow their own tongue....

remember its to the death... so everyone on the list would be out of character...

and Firestorm? The Nuclear Man....hahahhaahaha... he should be taken off that list just for being a lame character

no Supreme?...he should be tied for 3rd with Superman...hahahhaaha

:p

USAgent

02/14/2003, 04:47

Surfer vs Superman, it would be a big brawl with alot of action but in the end i think Surfer wins, he shoots cosmic rays out of his hands, the rays are described as being made up of everything in the cosmos, that including kryptonite.

Phil Dixon

02/14/2003, 04:51

Originally posted by Teletran
Thor's MAGIC hammer should break every bone in Superman's body.. why?

When Supes held WW's sword (Kingdom Come), he cut himself with it. Diana said that Supes has always been susceptible to magic. Oh, Diana would have a good chance against Kal. But of course she's much stronger, faster and more skilful than Thor. Thor is no faster than Captain America, and fights about as skilfully as the Hulk.

Frankly, Golden Boy wouldn't even see Superman coming. Same applies to the Surfer.

green_knight

02/14/2003, 06:00

Just to add more to this, Superman has Silver Surfer equivalent speed---both travel WAAAY faster than light, since it would take many lifetimes just to get to the nearest star that isn't in our solar system. Also, both of them have extremely powerful ranged attacks. I would classify surfer's damage as greater, since its feuled by the living embodiment of universal entropy known as galactus. HOWEVER, in recent issues of Superman, Mr Kal El has been training to improve his hand to hand skills by Mongul, and has learned how to use his super speed, cold breath and heat vision much more effectively, especially combined.

Silver surfer is rarely seen doing anything but blasting people, which means he is probably incredibly accurate after all these years of wielding such a deadly beam weapon. The fact is, Superman CAN get more power if he needs it by entering a yellow sun and absorbing its power directly. This is how he defeated Imperiex, DC's living embodiment of universal Entropy, basically Galactus's equivalent.

While I would say Surfer is probably more dangerous normally, his power tops out at what Galactus allows him to have. Superman has increased his ablilities to the point of beating a Galactus level opponen. True, all of earth was fighting him, but all of earth was getting beat down by imperiex until superman gambled on how much energy he could absorb.

And both would beat Thor. Both fight gods regularly, usually mad gods of death in both universes. Both have MUCH better range than Thor with deadly beam attacks that they can strike with at super speed.

I would say that Thor's godly form may be the toughest to crack, but his range and speed give him a huge disadvantage, seriously how far could he throw mjolnir with enough accuracy to hit a faster than light object that could probably catch it with ease, and in both cases, be worthy of holding it and beating him down with it?

As far as their greatest potentials go, Surfer can't gain more power, even though he is probably the heaviest hitter with his ability to transmute matter. Thor, once he realizes the Odin power completely, can alter ANY aspect of reality. Only his lack of experience with it prevents him from weilding a power of infinity gauntlett level against everyone. But then he'd go insane, like everyone else who's ever tasted that much pure juice. Superman? Hard to say, all I know is that he's still around at the time the earth dies, more powerful than ever. A sun's worth of nuclear power at his disposal, though still susceptible to transmutation by the surfer, or reality manipulation by a god.

the only thing that keeps Thor in the running as far as current power levels go is his hammer. This is why-------

Pay attention please, this is IMPORTANT-------

Superman, if hit with it on more than a glancing blow will probably buy out big time. Here's why.....

Kal El's invulnerability is based on ONE thing and one thing alone, and no, its not the yellow sun, although its a factor.

Evolution. The yellow sun fuels his body's ability to create defense against nearly all forms of attack. The reason magic gets past this? He doesn't understand it. On some level his cells are capable of adaptation, but only to threats they can comprehend. Yes, any Kryptonian under a yellow sun gets powers, but its not instantaneous. Their bodies grow more powerful, but something innate within them prevents an evolutionary jump to defend against magic. And as we all know, certain forms of radiation. As DC has shown in future stories, Clark eventually forms a defense against kryptonite. In Kingdom come, they say he's gotten so powerful over the years, that kryptonite doesn't even affect him, but Captain Marvel's magic still does.

In a way, supes is like his opposite number, Doomsday. They can both adapt to damage that their cells can comprehend and become nearly invulnerable over time, except that it works much faster with Doomsday. Given time, who knows if Clark's logic driven krytonian mind and body would eventually form a defense against everything. But as of every future story told, he is either still vulnerable to it, or its not addressed. It is basically stated that his lack of understanding of magic prevents him from defending against it.

So, he doesn't have invulnerability against it, but come one, his body is still harder than normal. Think of it more as a force field that protects against nearly all but magic (and currently kryptonite) . Magic causes the force field to drop, but there's still a naturally tough body underneath. Kind of like star trek where some weapons can bypass shields, but still have to crack the hull.

So in closing, this is giving me a headache.

I hope if nothing else, that it adds a few more points that can be used in the endless arguments about 3 characters we all love.

Good night.

trust7

02/14/2003, 06:14

Originally posted by CKent
Has anyone made up stats for Silver Surfer? How would he compare to those of R/E/V Superman or the OWAW Superman?

What do you think his stats would look like?

Check my post in the artisans guild I have a sheet and pasted stats for a surfer, that I have thought about for a long time, good setup 189 points ish.

Phil Dixon

02/14/2003, 06:49

Originally posted by green_knight
Just to add more to this, Superman has Silver Surfer equivalent speed---both travel WAAAY faster than light, since it would take many lifetimes just to get to the nearest star that isn't in our solar system. Actually, no. Superman is slower than the Flash, who can exceed lightspeed only in exceptional circumstances. The Surfer has many times been shown to use "wormholes", black holes and the like to travel FTL. Both are sub-lightspeed in actual flight.

Flight speed has nothing to do with reflex speed anyway. Captain Kirk flies faster than either of them, and isn't superhumanly quick. Both the Surfer and Superman do have measures of superspeed, of course, but Superman's is orders of magnitude greater, even though their flight speeds are comparable.

Originally posted by green_knight
...Imperiex, DC's living embodiment of universal Entropy, basically Galactus's equivalent. Well, they are equivalent in terms of the role they play in the story, and Imperiex is clearly based on Galactus, but he's much, much more powerful. He has to be, basically, because Galactus wouldn't stand a chance against the DC Universe.

Galactus eats planets. Imperiex destroys galaxies. They operate on completely different scales.

EVIL CAP

02/14/2003, 07:16

Be sure to keep in mind that many comics when having battles between superheroes often make massive mistakes and fail to portray characters properly. and they have ended up in these examples alotThe old Marvel vs DC battles were some of the WORST written drek imagineable yet some people still say wolverine beat lobo or aquaman beats Namor

Examples of "Writeritus"

Spiderman defeats firelord-Spidey was just not supposed to be up to the level of a hearld of Galactus
Dazzler vs DOOM-Dazzler somehow knocks down over by charging him on roller skates.NUff said i think she goes on to beat Galactus a little later too
Wolverine vs Spiderman-Wolverine suddenly gains the mutant power to never be knocked out when being hit by much stronger superhumans
Psylocke vs a lame bullfighter-Some unknown loser of a bullfighter kills her.Remember Pyslocke the uber psychic ninja?Killed by a third rate villain that was skilled at bullfighting
Wolverine vs Lobo-Lobo forgets he cant die and loses.yawn
Nightwing in any crossover-Just about every single Bat-crossover has Nightwing getting beat up no matter how ggood he is SUPPOSED to be
Deadpool vs 2 briteny spears clones-I think i better stop here its getting painful

CKent

02/14/2003, 07:35

yeh I agree crossovers suck... but you cant deny something happened just because you think it sucks...

EVIL CAP

02/14/2003, 08:07

Well the important thing is to be able to look at it abjectly and understand if it SHOULD have happened or not and to try to get a good grasp oon the average level of the Hero.Thor was made to be the equal to Superman from Marvel and i dont really think thats gone away SS is about on level with Thor ut i dont know if he can beat Superman because Thor only wins because of the magic advantage

JayThor

02/14/2003, 09:20

I agreed with the Wizard top 10, because of how they wrote it. Silver Surfer has come a long way since the 60's, and is more powerful than Superman. The power cosmic is limited only by the imagination of the wielder, hence, SS beats Superman by outsmarting him. He never has to get close. He could absorb the solar energy from his body, as he did the excess energy from Nova once. He could create Kryptonite underwear out of Superman's costume. He could grab him and fly him into a black hole, then leave him and fly out.

As to Thor, the warrior god (pre- Odinpower) would defeat Superman or Wonder Woman. He can accelerate himself to hyperspeed (see the first appearance with Beta Ray Bill). He would outlast Superman, and while Diana is a trained warrior, she is no match for a 2000+ year veteran of many fights against beings from other pantheons and superpowers.

JayThor

02/14/2003, 09:20

I agreed with th Wizard top 10, because of how they wrote it. Silver Surfer has come a long way since the 60's, and is more powerful than Superman. The power cosmic is limited only by the imagination of the wielder, hence, SS beats Superman by outsmarting him. He never has to get close. He could absorb the solar energy from his body, as he did the excess energy from Nova once. He could create Kryptonite underwear out of Superman's costume. He could grab him and fly him into a black hole, then leave him and fly out.

As to Thor, the warrior god (pre- Odinpower) would defeat Superman or Wonder Woman. He can accelerate himself to hyperspeed (see the first appearance with Beta Ray Bill). He would outlast Superman, and while Diana is a trained warrior, she is no match for a 2000+ year veteran of many fights against beings from other pantheons and superpowers.

Kiften

02/14/2003, 09:46

You know, Thor and Surfer have battled a few times, and Surfer came out losing pretty much each time...

http://www.freetech.org/~thor/battles/vssurfer.htm

check out that link for more info
biggs

trust7

02/14/2003, 11:11

Originally posted by Kiften
You know, Thor and Surfer have battled a few times, and Surfer came out losing pretty much each time...

http://www.freetech.org/~thor/battles/vssurfer.htm

check out that link for more info
biggs

Bah thats a bunch of misguided bullsh|t, I could rant and rave about that ####ola for days on end but suffice to say there are a few things affecting those outcomes.

1. magic, thor is being given particular enhancements each time he has fought ss
2. ss has as someone has stated earlier as much power as he wants and in NONE Of those comics did he unleash it, in several comics when he is actually ANGRY he has the ability to let loose the power of a supernova, which the sheer force of would move thor as far as it was, obviously on earth or any living planet he cannot or would not do this, again uneven for thor
3. for all intents and purposes thor is a god but he is a physically human god, he is blood and bone, surfer is not any longer "killing blows ###" no such thing to surfer basically maybe with magic but havent seen it yet.
4. as I said I could go on at the ridiculousness of those 3 comics where thor is OBVIOUSLY given the upper hand in each of the situations, but why fanboy why ?

hehhehe

Kiften

02/14/2003, 11:41

well, i wouldn't say that's it's a fanboy site...look at the rest of the battles

http://www.freetech.org/~thor/

Then go to battles....the only one that really stands up to Thor is Hulk...and I have some of those issues too, it seems about right

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Surfer fan, moreso than Thor by far, and would use Silver Surfer alot more than Thor...Silver Surfer is one of my fav heroes. I just think toe to toe with Thor he probably would get beaten.....
biggs

ps. i did my own version of surfer...:)

Grizzly

02/14/2003, 12:32

Thor, Silver Surfer, and Superman. 3 of the most powerful beings in comics. Pre-crisis i would have to give 10 out of 10 wins to Superman due to his incredibly stupendous(stupid?) feats of strength ,durability, and stamina. Post crisis Superman get a huge depowering. Silver Surfer has gone through a great many power fluctuations. Originally Odin could tell Galactus to jump and Galactus would say how high? But those days are gone and Asgardians have gotten the power down while at the same time Galactus and his Heralds have gotten the boost. Now all 3 are very similar. none are one dimensional fighters, non of them are long rangers with a glass jaw, nor are they purely up close bricks with no brains and no range.

Thor is the brute of the three stronger, tougher and a more experienced trained fighter. Stay in close with this boy and your asking for all your bones to be broke unless you are completely sure you can go blow for blow like a Hulk or Juggernaut. Add in the lightning bolts from the sky and acurately thrown hammer skills perfected over 2000 years and you have a person who could be acurately described as a god.

The Surfer is on the other end from Thor, where Thor leans to close combat while being no slouch in ranged, Surfer excels at immensley powerful beams of the power cosmic directed at his foes. Surfer is a toolbox of powers on top of that energy shields, telekinetic bubbles, dimensional gates, radiation absorbtion matter transformation you name it he's probably got it. Thats why he is known as the best energy flinger in the Marvel Universe

Supes falls in between the two previously mentioned, better than Thor at range and a few steps ahead of the Surfer in close.
Younger by 2 millenia or by eons than his competitors he is not had as many years to perfect his skills. His strength lies in the fact that he has no combat weaknesses, only weakness to certain specific energies. He can last in close with Thor or trade eye beams and the power Cosmic with the Surfer he is Superman

In deciding between the 3 it's supermans own lack of a preference in a fight that causes him to be taken out of the running first. Where Thor can press an advantage up close or the Surfer play a game of keepaway, supes has to do one or the other with no clear adavantage, it's a loose loose situation. Stay away from Thor and you get hit by hammer and lightning while thor is pressing to get in close and once he does the fight is over, not a quick fight but a victory for Thor none the less. Against the Surfer getting in close is the hard part. Surfer has so many options that each time Supes thinks of a way to get in close Surfer has the crowbar to pull them apart. Thor and the Surfer it comes down to time frame Surfer has fought Thor a few times loseing or breaking even but that was against a berserker Thor who surfer didn't want to hurt or too short of fights with enhancements and people holding back on both sides no clear winner has there ever been, the closest was when Loki powere up the Surfer to fight Thor and Thor still fought to a draw. But in that same story arc Loki broke down Galactus's barrier preventing Surfer from leaving which nowadays would be quite improbable. Surfer vs. Thor i would have to give it to the Surfer who is beeing built up in his comic absence as the most powerful character in marvel. Thor is also getting power boost lately I have never seen Lord Thor in action so i a slow to make a judgment but a Lord Thor would probably be much stronger i would assume and i can't imagine him haveing that power for alot longer

GoldenAge

02/14/2003, 12:42

I just had an interesting thought about the Superman/SilverSurfer/Thor controversy...

First, though, I'd like to agree with everyone else on this post; all three of the heavy hitters are awesome. Each could potentially win against the other within the correct set of circumstances. And each has greatly contributed to comic book mythology (none more than Supes).

That being said, I have to go with Superman in a fight.

Why? Well, Superman is a self-contained juggernaut while the two Marvel big guns rely on mystical/cosmic devices for some of their effectiveness.

That's not to say Silver Surfer's power would be lessened without his board or that Thor is automatically powerless without Mjolnir. Both are still frighteningly powerful without their inanimate sidekicks. However, sanstoys both are diminished.

As The Sandman mentioned earlier Superman would definitely be worthy of Mjolnir – one good catch and we’ve got Superthor!!!

Can Silver Surfer get around without his cosmic surfboard? So many times I’ve seen him listless, hanging in space without its assistance. Could a well-placed blow by Superman undo that which Galactus wrought? Perhaps… But we’ll probably never know.

Superman stands alone.

Grizzly

02/14/2003, 13:01

Yes Superman is worthy, but the hammer returns to Thor not who ever is a pseudo thor at the time. If thor wants the hammer back it's his

AaronUnicorn

02/14/2003, 13:26

I have to agree that the post-Crisis Superman is no match for Thor or the Silver Surfer. Superman has been seriously depowered, to the point where it is possible to hurt him with nothing more than brute strength (something that was originally impossible. Granted, it takes a LOT of brute strength, but it can be done). He also, as noted, lacks the millenia of experience that the Surfer or Thor posseses.

He does have the advantage in not using any external devices. But I'm not sure how much of an advantage that is. Surfer without his board, or Thor without his hammer are already nearly Superman's match, now that their reliance on them is gone. If we go back to the days when 60 seconds of separation from the hammer transformed Thor to Donald Blake, or any of his other psudeo-identites, then Superman has the potential of winning. Similarly, the Surfer's power has now grown to the point where he can recreate his board, or summon it to him, should he be seperated from it.

Now, I don't buy the "the power cosmic can simulate kryptonite" argument, nor do I buy "Mjolnir is magical, and therefore it can hit Superman harder than just the strength behind it" arguments. (Captain Marvel's superstrength is magically granted, yet his punches are no more effective against Superman than anyone else who's that strong). But, I still think that either the Surfer or Thor could defeat Superman in a straight-up fight.

However, one final issue, is what the fight is over. All three of these heroes can be wildly different in their effectiveness depending on why they're fighting.

JustFrodo

02/14/2003, 13:47

I have to agree that any one of the three could beat the others depending on the situation and circumstances. There's no such thing as "flat out toe-to-toe" because then they wouldn't be fighting at all, would they? There has to at least be a reason for fighting, and a specific battleground, and boom right away you have two external factors.

In a fight I would RATHER see SS win because I like him better. I've never liked Thor much, but begrudgingly admit he is powerful. Superman is just too iconic, I like seeing him go down simply because he's not supposed to.

And on a modified fig, I'd still only give any of them 1 arrow. Even though they all have the speed to deliver two ranged attacks where a normal fighter can do one... they get watered down from normal damage to a mere 1 click, and these guys should never have an attack that only does one click. It's beneath their dignity.

Vegeta1

02/19/2003, 23:58

"I believe Surfer is more powerful than Thor."

Uh-huh. Even though the man HIMSELF admitted Thor was more powerful???? Even Though Thor has constantly defeat the Surfer in battle????

*whistles*

Hoo-kaayyy.....

"Vegeta1 old friend, we meet again. (twirls mustache)"

Sandman, my man. Wassup, dude?

"I remember the comic you speak of, but Surfer is the epitome of never going all out till absolutely needed."

Well, the man himself ADMITTED he was going all-out when he foght Thor----and STILL lost.

Next......

Namor

02/20/2003, 00:12

Since Superman is vulnerable to magic wouldnt Dr.Strange wipe the floor with him?

Perfectstorm

02/20/2003, 01:19

Ok lets look at this in al rational terms

Thor is just super. In every way, he is god. But he is still a fighter. I would say Thor > Superman. Superman is venrable to magic and Kryptonite, which is his undoing. Thor could simply smash his face in with the hammer. That fight wouldnt take to long. Silver Surfer > Superman. Yeah, Surfer could either A) Turn his suit into kryptonite, B) Use his blasts like Kryptonite, C) move through a wormhole at the speed of light, to go get a large chunck of Kryptonite then proceed to return and beat him to beath with it.
Now is the real Fight Thor vs Surfer. Now on strait power, Surfer slaughters him. If surfer were to unleash all hes got in one blast, Thor would be spending the rest of his days in valhala. But we know that Surfer can't just kill a man, its agaisnt his character. he is peacful. If Thor Scores a hammer smash, Surfer is in trouble, but Thor can move fast, very fast but his reaction is no where near Surfer. Surfer would be able to dodge anything he tosses at him. The fastin thing thor has is lightning, and that is slow then light, which is surfers speed, so he shouldnt be able to touch him. If this were in comics, thor wins cause of Surfers personality, If no personalitys where involed, surfer flys at him at lightspeed and Gives all the comic he can muster into one blast and he takes out thor before thor knows whats going on.

Teletran

02/20/2003, 02:10

Uhm... PerfectStrom?!? You mention that LIGHTNING is slower than LIGHT?!?

So what's Lightning made of?

Anyway, I fully agree with what Wizard has already stated.
#1 Silver Surfer
#2 Thor
#3 Superman

Surfer usually lost to Thor.... I believe because of the "plot" and of course, to show how unyielding Thor is. Thor isn't shown much in that super cosmic level because if you've read the special Thor issue (2000 I think) where Thor specifically states the time he goes to earth to fight alongside brave mortals, he keeps his powers in check... so as not to outshine everybody else I believe.

But SS can really cut loose and as was shown in a What if issue... Surfer killed Thor after an extended battle.... but Surfer has been permanently damaged to that point such that Doom was able to take on Surfer as both died. In an all-out battle, I believe Surfer would win... (even if Thor is my fave)

Superman's been greatly depowered.... even moreso in the cartoon Justice League... ugh... it's really an injustice to Superman. While I put Superman #3 here, he's #1 to me in defining the word "hero". Thor and Surfer are very close in that but Superman takes the crown here IMHO.

Now... what bothered me was that post on Wonderwoman. If she's referred as to what she CURRENTLY is... (having more strength than Herc, faster than mercury, and the like) then we should compare her to Thor CURRENTLY as well. I believe regular WW is less strong and is not better at all than regular Thor and current WW is better than regular Thor but not against current Thor.

Current Thor should mop up the floor with Surfer, Superman, and current WW anytime of the day effortlessly if he wanted to. He will easily deal with Surfer through sheer power, change the sun to red and laugh at Supes, then turn WW back to clay. Nuff said.

Teletran

02/20/2003, 02:18

Namor, well... that's if Doc Strange could have enough reaction time to hit Superman. Superman is very fast and one good shot would take out Doc Strange.

But if Doc Strange was ou to get Superman and Superman was doing his routine flights across Metropolis, Supe's gonna be toast.

Astral projection all the way... look for Superman, then make tactics to surprise Superman and hit him with a super magical blast.

The key here would be Superman's reaction time. If Superman could react and land a counter blow, Doc Strange would be out cold... or even dead.

Unfortunately, Superman's reaction time won't save him against foes who use magic but can take on Superman's blows. I really wouldn't know how Spawn would fare against Superman... Spawn would lose fast if Superman's punches will turn Spawn's body to jelly with each hit though... (and yeah, the fear of using up the power)

I believe Wizard included Spawn in the Top Ten. Go look for it. :)

Hack-n-slash

02/20/2003, 08:05

Kiften wrote:

well, i wouldn't say that's it's a fanboy site...look at the rest of the battles

http://www.freetech.org/~thor/

Then go to battles....the only one that really stands up to Thor is Hulk...and I have some of those issues too, it seems about right

Now don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Surfer fan, moreso than Thor by far, and would use Silver Surfer alot more than Thor...Silver Surfer is one of my fav heroes. I just think toe to toe with Thor he probably would get beaten.....
biggs

What's truly annoying is the *wildly* differing power levels shown by the Silver Surfer. Moreso by *far* than any other character in the Marvel Universe.

He's a herald of Galactus, specifically declared *by Galactus* to be more powerful than Terrax (or any other herald), who himself lifted **Manhattan island**.

Then, *in his own comic*, a fight between him and the Super Skrull is *close* (I don't recall who wins, and it really doesn't matter).

squidblatt

02/20/2003, 08:55

It's true. Writers have always just done what they've wanted with the surfer, so it's a little hard to tell what his powerl level really is. I think Stan Lee's own intention with the character should still stand. The SS stories should be completely character driven with the real conflicts being internal and having to do with the struggle of maintaining nobility in a world in which nobility is constantly compromised. He was a nearly transcedant being, yet bound to earth. What allows these kinds of stories to be written is SS's near omnipotence. I think there have been writers that have dropped the ball and turned SS into a run-of-the-mill superhero with blaster rays due to lack of talent or lack of desire to use the character as he was intended. But the entire point of the Surfer's creation (by Stan Lee, not Galactus :) ) requires him to be more powerful than anyone else. Otherwise, how could the internal, spiritual quest that his character represents be highlighted? This is a practical argument that asks you to consider the purpose of the character to begin with. If the Surfer can be routinely pounded by anyone, doesn't that take away from his entire function? The Surfer's invincibility is like the America in Captain America. His character requires it.

On another note, one of the SS annuals has a section where the Surfer lists who he considers to be the most powerful beings in the universe. Both Thor and Odin are named, but I can't remember what he says about them. Actually, Prof X is named, too.