View Full Version : Nico and Tactician
payback1977
11/23/2009, 23:52
I guess my only question is Can I attach Brilliant Tactician to Nico with her Staff of One power?
Silver Lantern
11/23/2009, 23:55
I'm thinking no, doesn't the power have to show on the dial for it to be assigned? Otherwise, you'd arguably be able to assign her any feat with just power pre-reqs.
i'm gona say no since at the time of creation the power needs to be on the dial when feats are assigned.
Contingency Plan
11/24/2009, 00:07
I would have to agree. Even though it would make her even better. The power has to be on the dial during team building.
Why, yes. Yes, you can!
Can Nico use perplex via a standard or special power? Yes!
Can Nico use outwit via a standard or special power? Yes!
Can Nico use Brilliant Tactician, then? Sometimes. She'd only get it every other turn since she couldn't use perplex (BT's activator) two turns in a row.
Why, yes. Yes, you can!
Can Nico use perplex via a standard or special power? Yes!
Can Nico use outwit via a standard or special power? Yes!
Can Nico use Brilliant Tactician, then? Sometimes. She'd only get it every other turn since she couldn't use perplex (BT's activator) two turns in a row.
its not if she can use it or not.
Its is it on her dial at the time of feat assignment.
I'm thinking no, doesn't the power have to show on the dial for it to be assigned? Otherwise, you'd arguably be able to assign her any feat with just power pre-reqs.
i'm gona say no since at the time of creation the power needs to be on the dial when feats are assigned.
I would have to agree. Even though it would make her even better. The power has to be on the dial during team building.
From the FF Rulebook, pg. 19:
If a character can use a power or ability via a special power or ability, it can be assigned a feat with that power or ability as a prerequisite, but it must be able to use the power or ability on its own.
Nico's Staff of One could be one, outwit, or the other, perplex, but it does give her access to both of the prerequisite powers.
Remember, even on a character that possesses standard outwit and standard perplex, they can only use one or the other- depending on which is showing, of course- but they still have access to both on their dial and as such qualify for the feat.
JDKenada
11/24/2009, 00:18
If this holds up, Nico is my new favourite character... \m/ :devious: \m/
It almost makes up for that Giraffe neck.
It almost makes up for that Giraffe neck.
Yeah, that's definitely the biggest production issue I've seen in HoT: whoever put Nico together- all of them!- put her together wrong!
Check this thread (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264033&highlight=nico) for the original poster and details, but the long and short of it is this:
Pull/twist her head off. Put some super glue on the neck and/or on the hunch on her shoulder. Then put her head back on so that the cleft in her hair matches up with the hunch on her shoulder and her face is pointed towards the staff.
It's still not the prettiest sculpt ever, but it's 200x better than before, and it's an easy fix!
RavenProject
11/24/2009, 00:32
Yes, Nico can be assigned Brilliant Tactician. However, she can only use it on the clicks where she naturally has Perplex.
Here's why:
Once during each of your turns, you may give Nico Minoru a free action and choose a standard power you didn't choose during your last turn. Nico can use that power until the beginning of you next turn.
Relatively straightforward. Nico can choose one power with the Staff of One.
If a character can use a power or ability via a special power or ability, it can be assigned a feat with that power or ability as a prerequisite, but it must be able to use the power or ability on its own.
This is why Nico can be assigned pretty much any Feat, because she can use any Power with the Staff of One.
Prerequisites: Outwit and Perplex
This is where we run into problems. At any given time the Staff of One can duplicate one and exactly one power. If it is Perplex, then it can not be Outwit. Therefore, at that moment, she can't use both powers. (You could Compel Nico over and over, or your opponent could ping for for one damage over and over, and if the Staff of One is set for Perplex then Outwit will never exist.)
However, Nico has two clicks where she has Perplex on her own. On those two clicks the Staff of One can be used for Outwit, satisfying the requirements for Brilliant Tactician.
(Note: This could also work if some other game effect, like an event dial, granted Nico Outwit or Perplex.)
-J
vicious x
11/24/2009, 01:01
However, Nico has two clicks where she has Perplex on her own. On those two clicks the Staff of One can be used for Outwit, satisfying the requirements for Brilliant Tactician.
(Note: This could also work if some other game effect, like an event dial, granted Nico Outwit or Perplex.)
-J
so in theory, any figure with Outwit can be assigned BT if played with Oracle on her card?
so in theory, any figure with Outwit can be assigned BT if played with Oracle on her card?
that i know is No. They can not use Perplex on their own through a power at the time of creation.
only reason i was leaning towards no is that she does not have the power at the time of creation but is able to use it later during the game.
vicious x
11/24/2009, 01:22
that i know is No. They can not use Perplex on their own through a power at the time of creation.
only reason i was leaning towards no is that she does not have the power at the time of creation but is able to use it later during the game.
I asked because both Nico's power and ICWO state that she "may use" the power. but I just remember that you can not use a feat to activate another feat. but that does not stop Nico's SP
Yes, Nico can be assigned Brilliant Tactician. However, she can only use it on the clicks where she naturally has Perplex.
I disagree.
This is where we run into problems. At any given time the Staff of One can duplicate one and exactly one power. If it is Perplex, then it can not be Outwit. Therefore, at that moment, she can't use both powers.
This is irrelevant since she doesn't need to be able to use both outwit and perplex at the same time. Powers that grant either perplex or outwit per use have been ruled to allow BT usage.
Case in point: AA Question. Her Ask the Question special power allows her to use one or the other. The only thing that was ruled to stop her from using the BT she was assigned was the fact that her perplex stated it only worked on opposing characters, thus negating the usefulness of BT. Since Nico has no such caveat, she can use BT normally on those turns she chooses to use perplex.
Remember, you don't have to be able to use outwit at the time that you use a BT perplex, you merely have to be able to use outwit at some point on your dial.
BRILLIANT TACTICIAN
Cost: 20
Prerequisite: Outwit and Perplex
Choose a character. Outwit does not need to show in the
character’s stat slot in order for the character to use this feat.
When the character uses Perplex, the character can affect
every target friendly character that shares a team symbol or
keyword with it. The character must have clear line of fire to
each target.
If Staff of One can be used for outwit prerequisite, then you can use it as long as you choose perplex as a power or have it in her dial.
In my opinion you can´t use this feat, because her power don´t giver her outwit exactly, but just a opinion, maybe a RA is in line for this too ...
Slayer_Xtreme
11/24/2009, 01:44
so in theory, any figure with Outwit can be assigned BT if played with Oracle on her card?
The problem with this is that the rulebook says that you must get the power via a special power or ability not a feat which is how Oracle on ICWO works but if the figure has perplex or outwit then I think that they could use ICWO to get perplex to use it with BT on a click they don't normally have perplex.
At any given time the Staff of One can duplicate one and exactly one power. If it is Perplex, then it can not be Outwit. Therefore, at that moment, she can't use both powers. (You could Compel Nico over and over, or your opponent could ping for for one damage over and over, and if the Staff of One is set for Perplex then Outwit will never exist.)
BT says that you don't have to show both in the stat slot at the same time which means to me that Nico doesn't have to have outwit at the same time as perplex just like Reed Richards doesn't have to yet he can BT. If Nico is able to attach BT because this one power allows both Outwit and Perplex then I also say that Nico can perplex using BT every turn that Nico declares Staff of One as perplex not just her natural perplex clicks I don't see it as being different but I guess really in the days of NECA/Wizkids its up to the the judge at your local venue how something is ruled so really the only true way to know how something will work is ask whoever is running the events in your area how its ruled before using it then if you like the judge's ruling use it.
RavenProject
11/24/2009, 02:47
Could is not the same as can.
There's actually a precedent for this.
BWAH-HA-HA-HAH!: Blue Beetle can use Perplex. When Blue Beetle is adjacent to a friendly Booster Gold, he can use Outwit.
Crisis Blue Beetle is allowed to use Brilliant Tactician, but only when he is adjacent to Booster Gold. It doesn't matter that a situation could exist where Beetle gets Outwit. It only matters that, at the moment Beetle uses Brilliant Tactician, all the requirements are met.
When Nico is using the Staff of One for Perplex, it is impossible for her to have Outwit on any click of her dial. She can not meet the requirements to use Outwit, because the Staff of One is already tied up. Therefore, she can not qualify to use Brilliant Tactician.
-J
Could is not the same as can.
There's actually a precedent for this.
Crisis Blue Beetle is allowed to use Brilliant Tactician, but only when he is adjacent to Booster Gold. It doesn't matter that a situation could exist where Beetle gets Outwit. It only matters that, at the moment Beetle uses Brilliant Tactician, all the requirements are met.
When Nico is using the Staff of One for Perplex, it is impossible for her to have Outwit on any click of her dial. She can not meet the requirements to use Outwit, because the Staff of One is already tied up. Therefore, she can not qualify to use Brilliant Tactician.
-J
The Booster Gold precedent doesn't apply to this situation. Nico's power choice isn't dependent on factors external to her as a character such as a friendly adjacent character.
There was a ruling made on Metron's Mobius Chair:
Metron can use Outwit and Probability Control. Once per turn, Metron can use one of the following powers: Leadership, Perplex, or Support.
The question was asked if Metron could use Contingency Plan, and if so did he lose his Con Tokens if he used a power other than Leadership?
It was ruled that whatever power he used was his choice and that he didn't lose the ability to use Leadership just because he chose to use Perplex on that turn instead; as such, he didn't lose his Con Tokens when he used Perplex or Support.
Similarly, just because Nico chooses to use Perplex doesn't mean she lost the ability to choose Outwit instead as you assert. It simply means that she chose to use perplex.
Could is not the same as can.
And by the way, "could" is just a different verb tense of "can." Just sayin'...:cheeky:
Sheeplover
11/24/2009, 04:18
At this point I would rather have a rules arbitrator, than someone working on distribution.
RavenProject
11/24/2009, 04:25
The question was asked if Metron could use Contingency Plan, and if so did he lose his Con Tokens if he used a power other than Leadership?
It was ruled that whatever power he used was his choice and that he didn't lose the ability to use Leadership just because he chose to use Perplex on that turn instead; as such, he didn't lose his Con Tokens when he used Perplex or Support.
I'll agree that Metron would not lose his tokens. However, this would be comparable to having Leadership countered with Outwit -- the tokens are not eliminated, but the Feat can not be used. If Metron's "once per turn" is used for Perplex, then he can not use Leadership and therefore can not add or remove tokens.
That's the point I'm trying to make. Metron and Nico both have clauses where they "can use" only one power from a group at a given time. If they use one they can not use the other, and this will affect which Feats are accessible at that time.
Brilliant Tactician requires that the figure can use Outwit *and* Perplex, even if Outwit is not showing at the time. But the Staff of One allows you to use Outwit *or* Perplex. It is impossible, while Nico is using Perplex, for her dial to be turned to any click where she can use Outwit. Therefore, she can not meet the prerequisites for Brilliant Tactician using solely the Staff of One.
-J
I'll agree that Metron would not lose his tokens. However, this would be comparable to having Leadership countered with Outwit -- the tokens are not eliminated, but the Feat can not be used. If Metron's "once per turn" is used for Perplex, then he can not use Leadership and therefore can not add or remove tokens.
No, Metron still gets to use CP. For instance:
If Cap chooses not to roll for leadership at the beginning of his turn doesn't he still get to use his Contingency Plan feat? What about Winter Soldier with Spotter? If Winter Soldier decides to move instead of using RCE, which is Spotter's prerequ., doesn't he still get to use his Spotter feat?
I understand your point, and by real world logic it makes sense. But game logic is a different animal. I just don't think that prior precedent agrees with your logic.
Hopefully the old WK forums are archived, and will be back up soon.
Brilliant Tactician requires that the figure can use Outwit *and* Perplex, even if Outwit is not showing at the time. But the Staff of One allows you to use Outwit *or* Perplex. It is impossible, while Nico is using Perplex, for her dial to be turned to any click where she can use Outwit. Therefore, she can not meet the prerequisites for Brilliant Tactician using solely the Staff of One.
Brilliant Tactician requires that the figure can use Outwit *and* Perplex, but not at the same time. The Staff of One allows you to use Outwit *and* Perplex, but not at the same time.
She cannot use it or have it assigned to her.
This was ruled back during JL with Parasite, then reconfirmed with Super Adaptoid.
If a character can use a power or ability via a special power or ability, it can be assigned a feat with that power or ability as a prerequisite, but it must be able to use the power or ability on its own.
This is why Nico can be assigned pretty much any Feat, because she can use any Power with the Staff of One.
Actually, this is why she can only use ones with prereqs of Perplex or Leadership (or, I guess, a theoretical "any special power" prereq).
CheeseWiz
11/24/2009, 10:03
She cannot use it or have it assigned to her.
This was ruled back during JL with Parasite, then reconfirmed with Super Adaptoid.
Actually, this is why she can only use ones with prereqs of Perplex or Leadership (or, I guess, a theoretical "any special power" prereq).
Then why the heck can Blue Beetle use Brilliant Tactician?! As long as she is on her Perplex clix, she should be able to Staff of One Outwit. Not that I would recommend doing this.
Oh well, my plan was to assign Nico, Auto Regen :confused:.
Then why the heck can Blue Beetle use Brilliant Tactician?!
I disagree with that ruling, actually.
CheeseWiz
11/24/2009, 10:22
I disagree with that ruling, actually.
The Blue Beetle thing was what made me think that Nico could be assigned certain feats. BUT, I would rather things remain consistent. So, actually, I am glad she cannot. Guess Blue Beetles is odd man out. Thanks again!
normalview
11/24/2009, 10:25
I disagree with that ruling, actually.
Yup, me too.
doctor_x
11/24/2009, 10:33
Ok, stoopid question time...
Can Nico give herself perplex with the staff of one while her printed perplex is showing?
Thus giving her 2 uses of perplex during that turn?
:ermm:
Silver Lantern
11/24/2009, 10:39
She cannot use it or have it assigned to her.
This was ruled back during JL with Parasite, then reconfirmed with Super Adaptoid.
Actually, this is why she can only use ones with prereqs of Perplex or Leadership (or, I guess, a theoretical "any special power" prereq).
Harp, what was ruled back during JL regarding Parasite and later Super Adaptoid? Can you just explain the ruling?
VanisherPunisher
11/24/2009, 10:53
Ok, stoopid question time...
Can Nico give herself perplex with the staff of one while her printed perplex is showing?
Thus giving her 2 uses of perplex during that turn?
:ermm:
I think that she can, because it is possible to use outwit from a special power and outwit from Superman enemies TA at the same time.
normalview
11/24/2009, 10:54
I think that she can, because it is possible to use outwit from a special power and outwit from Superman enemies TA at the same time.
Yeah, if you search around, Harpua has got some post detailing a way you can get 4 or 5 separate uses of Outwit out of M&M The Leader.
Harp, what was ruled back during JL regarding Parasite and later Super Adaptoid? Can you just explain the ruling?
Parasite & SA have SPs which let them gain standard powers, albeit ones which an opponent must possess.
You could not assign Auto-Regen to Parasite because he has the possibility of gaining that power.
Similarly, you could not assign it to Nico.
If the power had been worded like "Nico can use every standard power, but..." then I would say that she could be assigned feats accordingly. The way she is worded, though, should prevent it.
I think that she can, because it is possible to use outwit from a special power and outwit from Superman enemies TA at the same time.
I would agree with this.
Quebbster
11/24/2009, 11:04
Then why the heck can Blue Beetle use Brilliant Tactician?!
One thing that is different is that Blue Beetle's dial explicitly says he can use Outwit.
Not sure how valid that argument is though.
Yeah, if you search around, Harpua has got some post detailing a way you can get 4 or 5 separate uses of Outwit out of M&M The Leader.
It's 4 on a turn, though not all can be active at the same time.
RavenProject
11/24/2009, 15:06
She cannot use it or have it assigned to her.
This was ruled back during JL with Parasite, then reconfirmed with Super Adaptoid.
The reason Parasite and Super-Adaptoid can't be assigned those powers is spelled out on page 19 of the rulebook:
Being able to use another character’s team ability (as wild cards can do) or power (as with the special power Power Drain, which allows a character to use another character’s powers) does not satisfy the prerequisites for a feat.
The rules explicitly state that you can't use someone else's powers to qualify for a Feat.
But being able to access the powers on your own through a Special Power is acceptable.
If a character can use a power or ability via a special power or ability, it can be assigned a feat with that power or ability as a prerequisite, but it must be able to use the power or ability on its own.
With the understanding that...
Special powers that allow a character to use standard powers also allow the character to meet the prerequisite of a feat. If the special power is conditional (e.g., can only use the power while in water terrain) then the prerequisite is only met when the condition is met also.
So I'm agreeing that the Staff of One allows Nico to be assigned any Feat with a single power prerequisite, because she can use any one power.
As for Brilliant Tactican... Nico can be assigned the feat because she possesses Perplex on its own. Therefore, by using the Staff of One for Outwit on the clicks with Perplex, she would qualify for the Feat.
However, the heart of my objection is that the Staff of One can only be *one* power at a time. Therefore, when the Staff of One is used for Perplex, there is no click on Nico's dial where she can also use Outwit. Per the terms laid out in the Players' Guide, the Staff of One can not simultaneously meet both Prerequisites.
-J
absolutvt69
11/24/2009, 15:55
So if you go by the logic that she can use Brilliant Tactician then wouldn't she qualify for pretty much any feat? Auto Regen, Mental Shield, Camouflage, etc. Is that a can of worms we want to open?
Silver Lantern
11/24/2009, 15:59
RP, one way to look at the following language:
"If a character can use a power or ability via a special power or ability, it can be assigned a feat with that power or ability as a prerequisite, but it must be able to use the power or ability on its own."
...is that as far as I know, SPs that grant other powers generally explicitly state what that other power(s) it grants is. I.e., "Spider-woman can use stealth and leap/climb." Such SPs expressly state what power or powers the character can use.
But the Nico SP, doesn't expressly and explicitly state a power or even several powers. It has language stating that she can use any standard power. So in essence it's different, and probably more akin to the Super Adaptoid/parasite SPs in application than say a SP that grants the use of "charge" and "flurry."
Am I way off with this train of thought?
RavenProject
11/24/2009, 16:17
So if you go by the logic that she can use Brilliant Tactician then wouldn't she qualify for pretty much any feat? Auto Regen, Mental Shield, Camouflage, etc. Is that a can of worms we want to open?
That can of worms spilled all over the rug. Based on the rules, Nico "can use" any power on the PAC, and therefore can be assigned any Feat which requires one power to work.
The debate here is whether the potential to use Outwit is sufficient to qualify for Brilliant Tactician when the Staff of One is used for Perplex.
But the Nico SP, doesn't expressly and explicitly state a power or even several powers. It has language stating that she can use any standard power. So in essence it's different, and probably more akin to the Super Adaptoid/parasite SPs in application than say a SP that grants the use of "charge" and "flurry."
Am I way off with this train of thought?
The issue with Parasite and Super-Adaptoid is that they use another character's powers, something explicitly ruled out by the text.
Nico can use the power on her own, which is why she qualifies.
-J
Harpua is always right. Don't argue, all that try, fail.
I'm happy with the ruling that she can't, even though it would be a cool exploit, it opens up a can of worms for so many feat choices that she'd be broken.
The reason Parasite and Super-Adaptoid can't be assigned those powers is spelled out on page 19 of the rulebook:
The rules explicitly state that you can't use someone else's powers to qualify for a Feat.
But being able to access the powers on your own through a Special Power is acceptable.
I'm with RavenProject on this one. Super-Adaptoid and Parasite's drain powers are fundamentally different from Nico's; they get to borrow other characters' powers.
Even Blue Beetle's BwaHaHa doesn't have him borrowing somebody else's power for Outwit; he can use it because of his power and not anybody else's, being next to Booster is just the condition. That's why Blue Beetle can be assigned the feat.
Harpua is always right. Don't argue, all that try, fail.
I'm happy with the ruling that she can't, even though it would be a cool exploit, it opens up a can of worms for so many feat choices that she'd be broken.
Just to be clear, Harpua is not an official source of rulings anywhere but at events over which he presides.
RP has some valid points. I think he's missing the mark a bit, but this one could be ruled officially either way.
STAFF OF ONE: Once, during each of your turns, you may give Nico Minoru a free action and choose a standard power you didn't choose during your last turn. Nico can use that power until the beginning of you next turn.
So Nico can use any power but only the same one every second turn? Wow, that is impressive. Very flexible, very handy
And assigning feats can be done for any power you can use or possess?
What power can she use before the game begins? Before my turn she cannot use and does not possess ANY power other than the ones she has on her dial and this one.
So, until BT is reworded to add "or you can potentially choose at some point in the game the powers listed", I am with Harpua on this one
Silver Lantern
11/24/2009, 20:42
I agree it really is subject to interpretation.
One can easily say that Nico's SP doesn't let her use "A power or ability via a special power or ability," it lets her use ALL standard powers. Its a small nuance but it is a difference nevertheless. Until now, mostly all SPs that granted powers have explicitly stated the granted power. Not here, where we have an all encompassing power allowing the use of all powers, albeit one at a time. Its a fundamental difference from anything else we've seen before. And the fact that a rulebook printed before we had this type of power didn't address it, doesn't mean that this type of power was contemplated when the that rulebook was written. To the contrary, it probably wasn't otherwise it may have been addressed like the "borrower" SPs were addressed, either to state it worked or didn't work.
Repulsor rage
11/24/2009, 21:05
wow valid points on either side I think i'm gonna slap nova blast and auto regen on her just to have some fun.
Just to be clear, Harpua is not an official source of rulings anywhere but at events over which he presides.
RP has some valid points. I think he's missing the mark a bit, but this one could be ruled officially either way.
are you a lawyer IRL?
if not, you sure speak like one...in a good way, that is.
wow valid points on either side I think i'm gonna slap nova blast and auto regen on her just to have some fun.
I don´t think it would work.
Choose a character.
At the beginning of your turn, this character uses Regeneration as a free action.
STAFF OF ONE: Once during each of your turns, you may give Nico Minoru a free action and choose a standard power you didn't choose during your last turn. Nico can use that power until the beginning of you next turn.
I see it like this, before you can use the "free" Regeneration, at the beggining of your turn you lose it, so you would not be ellegible to use it anymore. Just a guess.
I see it like this, before you can use the "free" Regeneration, at the beggining of your turn you lose it, so you would not be ellegible to use it anymore. Just a guess.
IF she can be assigned the feat she can use it.
By the wording of her power, the free action to gain the power is allowed at any time during the turn, including the beginning of the turn. She would be able to use the free action to gain Regen, then, since it is still the beginning of the turn, she could use Auto Regen.
Nico's Power:
Once during each of your turns, you may give Nico Minoru a free action and choose a standard power you didn't choose during your last turn. Nico can use that power until the beginning of you next turn.
Outwit:
Once during your turn (but not during another action)...
The bolded statement in Outwit is what allows it to be used at any time during the turn...such as before using Poison. Essentially the same phrase is used for Nico, indicating that her power can also be used at any time.
Since Nico's controller determines the order, she could gain Regen and use it with Auto Regen.
absolutvt69
11/25/2009, 09:15
I think for the time being I'm going to rule that she only meets the feat prereqs for the powers she has on her dial (Leadership, Perplex). I can see merit on both sides but again all else equal I'm going to rule in favor of the easiest to understand ruling which in this case is no feats based on Staff of One.
I agree with RavenProject that the "Staff of one" allows Nico to be assigned any feat where standard power's are a prerequisite.
I also think Brilliant Tactician would only work if she does not pick Outwit as a power her previous turn. If her power lets you assign her feats in the way that has been described, as long as she can choose to use Outwit, and uses Perplex instead, she should be able to use BT.
Once during each of your turns, you may give Nico Minoru a free action and choose a standard power you didn't choose during your last turn. Nico can use that power until the beginning of you next turn.
By virtue of the rules that allow her to be assigned feats, she should be able to use BT so long as she did not pick it the turn before she would choose Perplex to use BT while using Staff of One.
~Phil
rollinsolo
11/27/2009, 14:20
are you a lawyer IRL?
if not, you sure speak like one...in a good way, that is.
1. Lawyers NEVER speak in a good way.
2. I rule that we need a Red Hulk.
3. I can't wait to see how this lands officially.
FWIW, I tend to see things the way RavenProject describes it. I think the way it's worded she can be assigned just about any feat that has a power-based prereq. As for BT, I would say that she'd be able to use that feat if and only if she currently has the ability to use Perplex and Outwit on her dial at that time (i.e., she has perplex naturally and has gained Outwit through the Staff of One). Although BT doesn't require Outwit to be showing, in her case, if she doesn't use the staff to get it, it's never there.
All that said, I don't believe the INTENT of Nico's power was to allow her to have access to any feats other than those she naturally possesses. Thankfully, I don't have a tournament to run anytime in the near future or I'd have to make a call on this pending hearing something official.
ChiRocker
11/30/2009, 10:42
I completely agree with RP, and hopefully to put it in a way that is more clear, if she had Outwit instead of Perplex printed on her dial, she could use BT every other turn using perplex since both Perplex and Outwit would be on the dial at the same time. Also, with the actual dial, every other turn you could choose outwit, and the prereq would be met, but you can't do anything since Perplex isn't showing.
When I first read RP's initial post, I was thinking "that doesn't make sense, no pre-Avengers character had both printed at the same time" but upon further reading, they still have to be both somewhere on the dial at any given time.
Gentlegamer
11/30/2009, 10:47
All that said, I don't believe the INTENT of Nico's power was to allow her to have access to any feats other than those she naturally possesses.Then that's how it should be ruled, in my opinion. ;)
Then that's how it should be ruled, in my opinion. ;)
But until we know the intent, you have to rule with what the rules actually say.
Gentlegamer
11/30/2009, 11:40
But until we know the intent, you have to rule with what the rules actually say.The opinion of the last RA isn't enough for you on the intent? ;)
In some cases, the intent is clear. This one, it's not so clear in my opinion, so yes, go with what the literal rules seem to imply. I don't think it would be too unbalanced to allow it anyway, since the prerequisite power can only be used once every other turn.
Do you think the intent is to allow use of all feats? Just curious.
The opinion of the last RA isn't enough for you on the intent? ;)
In some cases, the intent is clear. This one, it's not so clear in my opinion, so yes, go with what the literal rules seem to imply. I don't think it would be too unbalanced to allow it anyway, since the prerequisite power can only be used once every other turn.
Do you think the intent is to allow use of all feats? Just curious.
That's his opinion, as he stated. Nobody's (excluding GD) opinion is sufficient, imo, to base a definitive ruling. I respect his opinion greatly, but his view is not something coming directly from the designers.
As I said above:
RP has some valid points. I think he's missing the mark a bit, but this one could be ruled officially either way.
He pretty much convinced me that the issue was indeed unclear. I'd even go so far as to say that he's got me pretty much convinced that the rules support his interpretation moreso than they do mine.
I do not believe that the intention is to meet the prereq of all feats. Prior rulings can be cited on either side of the argument, though.
That said, I have no clue what GD's intent was, so I can only go on the printed rules that we have. If I were to rule on this in a game, I would most likely rule it as RP stated.
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