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anonym0use
11/25/2009, 06:47
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=7252.jpg" style="width:300px;">
Hammer of Thor Edition

Primer Review
Part 4:Super-Rares
Ultron (#049) to Thor, Frog of Thunder (#100)

Click "full story" below to find out how the Super-Rares rate!

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 07:02
Welcome to the fourth part of the four part Hammer of Thor primer review!

Part 1: Bug (#001) to Thor (#016) (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264102)
Part 2: Balder (#017) to Daredevil (#032) (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?&t=264264)
Part 3: Sif (#033) to Spider-man (#048) (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264341)


Please Read:

* These figures are compared only within [their respective] set, only for sealed play.

* There are only a few 1 or 5 [Shield] ratings, based on their sealed play strength.
So even though your favorite character didn’t get five [shields] like you think it should, the ratings are only my recommendation. If you really like a fig, by all means play it.

* Everything written here is intended to be very broad in order to give a general idea of what may or may not work - These are not specific suggestions “you must play this!”
These are just my recommendations, and the combination of figures on a team can drastically affect a specific fig’s overall effectiveness.

*!!* Lastly, this review is just my opinion, and these are a lot of work to write - so I ask you very kindly, please don’t get angry at me for my ratings. I give reasonable explanations for each choice.
If you disagree (and you are welcome to do so), please try to do the same.

Please note: All the dials coded below are pulled from the units section. My ratings use this information, though I realize it may not be 100% accurate.

I'll be using shields to rate the figures, rather than smilies.

:d-normal: :d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: Unplayable
:d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: Use only as a last resort.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: Think twice about using this piece.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal: Fill out a team with this figure.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: Strongly consider playing this figure.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: A team winning figure.

SUPER-RARES

ha049 V Ultron
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 12 :bolt:
Points: 174
Keywords: Cosmic, Masters of Evil, Robot, Ruler
m-winga-fistd-indomitableg-starburst12121841211174101117310101639916399164881538815387143KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Transfer Essence: Ultron can use Mind Control. Ultron takes no damage from Mind Control if his target has the Armor or Robot keyword.

Is this Ultron 12? He should be with THREE natural 12's on his top dial. 12 Range. 12 Attack. 12 Movement. If only it was Running Shot and not Charge. Charge will be of questionable use with such a high attack value and range in play. Given a choice to Charge 6 squares or Pulse Wave out to 6 squares, I'll most often choose the latter. There's really not much need for Ultron to Charge unless he's trying to eliminate a Stealth figure or Captain America.

With Indomitable Ultron won't push off that 18, though you may want to at some point to activate Outwit to shut down opposing PW/EW or Running Shot. Don't push too soon unless absolutely necessary - giving up life is never a great option. Just make sure when using Outwit that the figure is within 10 squares - it's easy to forget with a 12 range. Did I mention Ultron has a 12 range? That's 4 more squares longer than Odin!

Defense is solid, 3 clicks of Impervious will be difficult to bypass, and he should soak enough damage he'll pop onto Mastermind, which could keep him around longer. He also picks up Mind Control at that point (avoiding some feedback damage too!), which may be good in getting a monkey off his back. At 174 points Ultron can conceivably fit 2-3 more figures on a build to help support him. Look to use him with Hand Ninja or Jimmy Woo for a ranged bump (13 attack or 13 range!) or as a damage modifier. Jimmy picks up Perplex too, so feel free to mastermind damage to the secret agent/Asian man.

His numbers go soft after the Mastermind clicks, though he does pick up Running Shot. I think I'd rather risk Regenerating back to mastermind if i still have fodder in play. Otherwise, run & gun away from the opposition - make them chase you down.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: Hank Pym wishes he was this effective.
==============================================

ha050 U Hela
Team: Mystics
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 200
Keywords: Asgardian, Deity, Mystical
m-winga-fistd-normalg-starburst10101831010173910173910173991639916389163891628815278152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Hand of Glory: Any doubles rolled for any attack roll made by Hela are a critical hit, even double 1's, which are not a critical miss.

(Attack) From the Depths of Hel: Hela can use Psychic Blast and Energy Explosion.

(Damage) Touch of Life: Whenever another friendly character is KO'd, you may roll 2d6. This roll can't be rerolled or modified. On a result of 11 or 12, the character is not defeated; instead roll a d6 and heal the character of damage equal to the result.

For 200 points, you'd think we could get at least an 11 attack in there. Not that I'm complaining too much considering what Hela brings to the table. For starters, let's focus on the fact that she's got Outwit and Psychic Blast - so long as she's not based, I'm not stuck with the dilemma of "Do I Outwit Invulnerability?." Be sure to shoot first and Outwit later. No sense in countering a power that won't be showing on the dial after they take some clicks.

Again - Super Senses is only good when it's rolled, so she's likely to wind up mid dial, where HAND OF GLORY (and Perplex) supplements her waning AV. Unlucky players will love HoG - Critical Misses are now Crirical hits! Boo-yah! Defense isn't great - but it isn't bad either. Toughness may keep her in the game an extra click - and she's Mystics, so when she takes damage she's also dealing it.

Ulik beware! Her end dial picks up Poison and Invulnerability, with the damage reducer lengthening her dial artificially. TOUCH OF LIFE is silly good - in constructed. In a 300 point sealed event, it may come in handy, but really she's only going to fit one or two figures on a team with her. Who will she heal that would make a big difference in the battle? Healing them is a longshot, but will prove to be annoying the few times it happens.

With all these selling points, Hela can't really stand up to the bigger guns in the set. Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Air-Walker all outclass her with Ranged attacks. Hela won't want to push every round but at 2/3rds of the build total, and with no Move and attack Hela WILL have to push to be effective. Opponents will love to see her push - the faster she's through her dial, the less Mystics feedback they'll have to take. Hela's far too squishy to make an effective tentpole. Can she win games? Yes. But winning 3 games in a row may be a long shot by putting all your eggs in this basket.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal: Use with caution.
==============================================

ha051 U Odin
Team: Power Cosmic
Range: 8 :bolt::bolt::bolt:
Points: 295
Keywords: Asgardian, Deity, Ruler, Warrior
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst812195811184811184810183710173791737917369173610164610164611165KOKOKOKO
(Special) Special: Odin can use Super Strength.

Speaking of putting all your eggs in one basket - the 11 click, 295 point father of Thor is a true One Man Army in sealed events. Unlike Hela Odin has Power Cosmic to protect his frontloaded damage reducers. His 19 defense is rare in the HoT, and should protect him somewhat as he moves upfield to lay down the hurt. Because he's a O.M.A. he won't ever have to worry about hitting friendly figures with Pulse Wave, so that's a plus.

Damage is steady throughout his dial, never dipping below 3 and often paired with something to give it more oomph - Psychic Blast, Close Combat Expert. Those Super Senses clicks will make or break old one eye, though he does switch back to damage reducers in the end. It's not on his dial, but don't forget the Super Strength - have Odin tote around an Object, but use him to make ranged attacks. If he gets based, then drop the Object on him for up to 7 damage.

I'd be curious to see how an Odin V Ulik battle plays out. If Odin could Outwit the Troll's charge and ping away at range he might stand a chance, but if the Ulik player manages to get into base contact then Odin could be in BIG trouble. The key to victory will be in the hands of Odin's player - if you're comfortable with a O.M.A., by all means play Odin. Just don't be surprised to fall to an effective swarm team.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: Not quite a guaranteed victory.
==============================================

ha052 V Venus
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 8 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 125
Keywords: Agents of Atlas
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst611171611171611171511161511161511161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) All You Need is Love: Venus can use Incapacitate. She can use it normally, or instead be given a close combat action to use Incapacitate against all adjacent opposing characters.


Venus could advertise for Bran Flakes, what with her stellar consistency. A solid 11 attack her whole dial looks nice at first glance and her damage never drops either. Of course, damage is only a 1, and in a set full of Invulnerable class bricks, Venus will have to rely on Mind Control and Incap. So pretty much, all you need to beat her is some Outwit. Outwit the Mind Control, tie her up with a minion to curb the dual target Incap and leave her alone while you focus on dealing with the 175 points of her teammates.

Mastermind and Shape Change are a nice combo though don't always work wonders together. Be sure when attacking to Charge into base contact with both her and her fodder. If she makes the Shape Change roll, take another action to target the fodder instead. Or, if her minion has a lower defense than her it may just be better to target the fodder outright.

Players without Outwit will have a lot of trouble dealing with Venus. Between Incap and Mind Control she has plenty of ways to shut down heavy hitters and wreck teams so don't underestimate her either. The best way to deal with her is at range. If you do pull her, plan on dedicating a taxi and some Mastermind fodder because she won't last long or go far on her own. She could pull off, or be the victim of some devastating combos with all the Mind Control in the set. For instance, Malekith could Mind Control her, then giver her an action to Mind Control her teammates. She'll possibly take feedback damage even as her teammates beat each other up.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal: A risky choice for 125 points.
==============================================

ha053 U Seth
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 120
Keywords: Deity, Mystical, Ruler
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst91118391118391117281017281016479164791637815378153KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Damage) Snakeform: (non-optional) Seth has the [Giant] damage symbol. Seth uses Battle Fury and Shape Change.

Ha! Seth finally made himself into a click. Nice Muttonchops dude. Oh wait, that's an actual Marvel character. A quick wiki check reveals this guy has issues.

Seth is the Egyptian god of evil and death, living in the city of Celestial Helopolis. He is married to the goddess Nepthys. His right hand is missing, and he usually wears a metal cup over it.

He must not be too powerful a god if he lost a hand, and he must not be too wealthy if he can only afford a cup to wear over the stump. :p Another 10 range figure. Normally that would be remarkable, but in this set, it's only above average. Willpower will help him position and attack, though it won't soak any damage up. 11 attack value is great, but he starts with EE and 3 damage which leaves him pinging away at the other player's Invulnerable bricks.

Probability Control frontloaded is nice, and will help his teammates. He really gets moving 2 clicks in, when he picks up the damage cutting combo Psychic Blast and Exploit Weakness, but he'll never push there on his own (outside of crazy reckless playing). At that point his damage dips to 2, so while he can finally hurt someone, he's still just slowly chipping his way to victory.

Rear dial, he becomes an entirely different character. Based on what little I know, (the name of his SP) I'm saying that he turns into a giant snake - Plasticity, Poison and Shape Change all grace his rear dial, and he finally gains some damage reduction with Toughness, but at a modest 16. Giant-ness might be good, except it's not optional, and is saddled with Battle Fury, taking away his 10 range. When he's a giant he'll be a walking barn, and it won't take more than a missed Shape Change roll to put him down for good.

Should you play him? Look over your pulls. Is this your best attack value option for the points? Can you increase his ranged damage with Shield TA, Perplex, or Enhancement? If so, then maybe - just maybe - he's worth fielding otherwise...

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: Think twice about using this piece.
==============================================

ha054 V Loki
Team: Mystics
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 208
Keywords: Asgardian, Deity, Mystical
m-winga-fistd-normalg-starburst101118410111749101739101638916289153710153611144KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Defense) Prince of Lies: Loki can use Mastermind. When he does, he can treat any friendly character 4 or fewer squares away to which he has a clear line of fire as if it were adjacent.

(Damage) God of Mischief: Loki can use Outwit and Perplex.

At first glance I thought - not a bad dial for 140+ points, then I saw the 208 price tag and my jaw hit the floor. I think I've been spoiled with dials like Heimdall, Balder and Pluto and so I was a bit shocked to see an expensive Loki. Is he worth it?

It's hard to go wrong with an 11 AV, 4 damage Psychic Blast - from Stealth no less. Any fight with a ranged attacker will have to be close combat, or Loki will snipe them to death. The god of mischief may not need to use that Front dial Probability Control on his own 11 AV, but it will come in handy forcing people to reroll against his 18 Defense.

Special Power "ranged" Mastermind is nice, though I like Enchantress's Mastermind/Toughness better if only because when her minions are dead she still has some protection. Loki's Mastermind yields to Invulnerability, possibly allowing the trickster more use of his Mystics TA.

When Loki gets to God of Mischief, he'll need it. Psychic Blast will have faded to white by that time so Perplex that damage and Outwit that defense and keep attacking. Loki suffers some of the same problems Hela does - at 200+ points he needs to do a lot of the heavy lifting, and may have to push a lot. Unlike Hela, Loki can last as long as he has Mastermind fodder, though at best he'll only be able to throw two meat shields in front of him. Will that buy him enough time to dismantle the opposing team? The joke's on you if it won't.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: Strongly consider playing this figure.
==============================================

ha055 V Valkyrie
Team: Defenders
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 145
Keywords: Asgardian, Deity, Defenders, Warrior
m-transport-winga-fistd-normalg-starburst1211184121018310101731091749916498163981528815389154KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Hard to believe that Valkyrie here is the only SR without an SP or a Trait. The first thing to note right off the top is that Blondie is a Transporter, effectively granting Hypersonic light with the Move and Attack ability. Move and Attack is slightly better than HSS in that ranged value is not halved, and in the case of Val’s 4:bolt: that’s a good thing. She might not have the longest range, but she does have a 16 swing – with the ability to move 12 and shoot 4.

Movement makes her an awesome taxi – even after the -2 penalty she can clear half the board on her Pegasus. 12 Speed is also coupled with Charge, Super Strength, and 4 damage with an 11 attack, though her attack is high enough that she can Move & Attack around the board and still hit something.

18 defense Super Senses is good on any figure, and with her Defender’s TA and double base she helps chain that defense if possible. Pushed a few clicks in, she gains Invulnerability, which she’ll really need in this set. The Warrior Maiden trades in Super Strength for Dragonfang – her mystic blade. Blades/Fangs/Claws can’t be used with Move and Attack, and really, with such high natural damage (3 & 4) why risk rolling anything less?

Defense starts to drop, but damage reducers escalate, trading Invulnerability for Impervious, and Enhancement! A dual based Enhancer is a first, and should prove useful in constructed on swarm teams. Her defense bottoms out after Toughness, and she picks up Running Shot (kind of a waste with 4 range) and more B/C/F.

At 145 points, Val will be half a team, and only be able to fit a few more support figures with her. She packs a hard punch, but can’t do it consistently enough, or bypass enough damage reducers to make her a reliable tentpole in this set. Perhaps if one managed to pull enough Defender’s TA figs (Starlord, Raccoon) to field with her it might be worth risking it. Otherwise leave the horse in the stables.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal: Use with caution.
==============================================
ha056 U Surtur
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 153
Keywords: Asgardian, Monster, Ruler
m-boota-fistd-giantg-giant811173811173710184710184610174691736817368163610163510164511155KOKOKOKO
(Damage) Expendable Resources: At the beginning of your turn, you may KO any number of friendly characters that have both the Asgardian and Monster keywords. For each character KO'd this way, Surtur can use Exploit Weakness and modifies his damage value by +1 until end of turn.

Surtur is kind of a chump. A respectable chump, but a chump nonetheless. I say this after watching him get knocked off Toughness and past his Impervious. Every. Single. Game. Shape Change only makes a difference if you’re lucky enough to roll big. Otherwise, he’s a walking target thanks to the Giant ability.

Not everything that comes with being a Giant is bad, like Charge. It’s always fun to use that extra square of reach, which can really take people off guard. The lord of Ragnarok has a respectable 11 AV, though he’s somewhat strapped in the damage department. Blades/Claws/Fangs is uninspired with a natural 3 damage. Surtur has a 66% chance to break even on that d6 roll, but if he doesn’t – expect the opponent to laugh.

His third click is what I want the first to look like – Imperv and 4 natural damage. Quake is always fun if it hurts the opponent, but if they have even the smallest damage reducer - why bother? Use his SP with some caution – there’s no sense throwing troops to the wolves if he can’t even hit, and with his sagging AV he’ll need some help in that department against the HoT 18 standard.

Surtur wants to go out with a bang – as his 11 AV spike and 5 damage show. Incidentally, HoT is great set for Bizarro style tournaments, the kind where you start on your last click and move your way forward. Flame based Poison is only as good as the defenses around you (at least it is with no Armor Piercing in the set). Surtur will put up a fight, but there are bigger dogs (literally) in this set, and he can’t really pull his weight at +50% of a build.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal: Use with caution.

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 07:13
ha057 E Thor and Loki
Team: Avengers
Range: 10 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 362
Keywords: Asgardian, Deity, Mystical, Warrior
m-winga-fistd-indomitableg-starburst121218510111841011174810174810174810173810163810164611164612175KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
TRAIT (Special) Invulnerability: Thor and Loki can use Invulnerability

(Speed) Hammer and Glamer: Thor and Loki can use Running Shot and Shape Change

(Attack) Brawn and Brains: Thor and Loki can use Super Strength and Perplex

(Defense) Might and Mischief: (non-optional) Thor and Loki uses Battle Fury and can use Exploit Weakness

(Damage) Destruction and Deceit: Thor and Loki can use Quake and Outwit

Thor and Loki are more of a concept piece, a curiosity and conversation starter, than a genuine game piece. Aside from the quibble that the two work together rarely enough to justify a duo, they have such an expensive cost that you can't help but wonder what else you can buy for 362 points that might be better than the two of these combined. The duo presents itself as a challenge to experienced players - can you pull off a win with just the two (one?) of them?

It's too bad then, that one of the best sculpts in the set is paired with one of the worst dials. And I don't mean to say the power set is bad or lacks synergy, I just don't like the fact that this figure is entirely vanilla - all white with 4 SP's and a Trait. I'm usually good at remembering SP's when they come in 1's and 2's - I suspect most players are. Thor and Loki's players will need to reference this card often. I suspect you'll also hear a lot of players "forget" they had such and such power (Shape Change) that could have helped them at a crucial moment.

362 points means they're automatically disqualified from any 300 point builds, and will see less play than a Freshman at Senior Prom. Woe to the player who suffers a handicap because of this. On the bright side, you just pulled an SR! The figure is hard to rate considering there's literally no other figures like this in it's point class and that it automatically prices itself out of standard builds. Yes, yes I know there's venues out there running 400 points sealed events for HoT, but marquee primers always have, and will support a 300 point format.

A trait grants Invulnerability, though damage reducers can be bypassed as always, with the right set of powers. Nearly a full dial of HAMMER AND GLAMER grants Running Shot and Shape Change. Running Shot may help get a first strike, but it won't stack with duo attack T&L will want to stand still to make the most of their Duo ability.

BRAWN AND BRAINS works well with Duo abily - Super Strength will help offset the opposing damage reduction from the second Duo attack, as will Perplex. Self Perplexed, and holding a heavy object Thoki can deal 13 clicks of damage in one round in close combat (first attack 8, second attack 5). If that Heavy is a Meteorite, the Perplex will only work on the second attack, though the first 6+ clicks will be penetrating.

Close combat is good, but they'll want to stay at range with a little Camouflage to help them hide. The true strength of duo attacks lies in ranged combat with Enhancement - 3x Enhancement means they can dish out a possible 15 damage (8 to the first target, 7 to the next) per turn. They are indomitable, so they can easily follow up, an astonishing 30 clicks of damage in two turns without compel.

Might and Mischief saddles the pair with Battle Fury, making Hammer & Glamer's Running Shot worthless on the 4 clicks it overlaps. Yes, they gain Exploit Weakness, but you'll need to ask yourself - is it worth Exploiting for 4 damage, or duo attacking for 7? Too bad M&M didn't also grant Charge.

DESTRUCTION AND DECEIT give Thor & Loki Outwit and Quake on their end dial. Outwit is always handy but like Exploit, you need to ask what good Quake is. Consider a Duo attack on two separate opposing figures will net 5 to 9 damage total, compared to the 4 total damage from Quake. It’s too bad this duo dosen’t have something like: "All damage is knockback damage," or even: Quake deals printed damage because Quake just can’t hold up to the raw damage of a bare attack.

Even in constructed Thor and Loki will have a tough go of it, in anything under 600 points. Outwit wrecks them, and Fortitude isn’t an option thanks to the feat’s :a-fist: prerequisites. You could box them up, with some Camouflage, and Thunderbolt them to Batman Ally (or be mean and pick Crossgen/Arachnos!) to give them a fighting chance, but that’s just more points for the opposing force to net. Instead of Boxing up this duo, spend the points on support. Use them at range with Enhancement, and bring several tie up pieces, and they might do okay.


:d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: Unplayable in a 300 point format.
==============================================

ha058 U Gertrude Yorkes & Old Lace
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 54
Keywords: Animal, Runaways, Teen
m-boota-duod-normalg-starburst891538915388152881427814278142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Arsenic: Once per action when an opposing character moves into a square adjacent to Gertrude Yorkes and Old Lace, that character is immediately dealt 1 damage before it can make any attack

(Damage) Lend a Dino: When an adjacent friendly character makes a close combat attack against a single opposing target, if Gertrude Yorkes and Old Lace are also adjacent to that target they can make a close combat attack against that target as a free action.

A pet dinosaur seems like a good idea at first, until you realize how much red meat it needs to eat per day and just how much poop you’ll need to clean up if it doesn’t use a litter box. Just like having a pet dinosaur seems like a good idea, so too does the thought of playing this neat duo. But consider all the foibles of the duo ability – G&OL won’t be able to get carried (unless Chase is with them), so it will be a while before they get into combat (without TK).

When they do see battle, will they be that effective? Minions laugh at Jurassic Gert's 15 defense with Toughness, which makes this pair a big liability. Yes, they have a neat SP with Arsenic – but the damage is defined as dealt, not taken (see: Penance) so it will get reduced by many of HoT’s brick figures, and won't matter a lick against ranged combat.

Lend a Dino, won’t work with B/C/F (see: attack vs. action) and comes too late to be of much use anyway with an 8 attack. The Dino’s damage values are low enough that duo attack won’t deal a lot of damage in a set rife with Toughness. In constructed, I think this will be a very fun piece, especially when equipped with Armor Piercing, which lets all the damage stick. In sealed, this figure is a very risky investment.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: Think twice about using this piece.
==============================================

ha059 U Volstagg
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 103
Keywords: Asgardian, Warrior, Warriors Three
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst811184711184710184710173791737917369163610164611164KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Special) Warriors Three: Volstagg gets +1 to his attack value for each other friendly character on the map that has the Warriors Three keyword.

(Speed) Volstagg the Enormous: Volstagg can't be knocked back. Opposing characters adjacent to Volstagg get -1 to their break away roll results.


There’s not much to say about Volstagg really. He sports another consistent dial reminiscent of M-11, but with less options. A high defense and heapings of Damage Reducers will make putting him down troublesome without the right power combination, and quasi-Plasticity will make him frustrating as a tie-up piece.

Super Strength, and 4 damage that never dips below 3, along with a horseshoe dial of AV’s that only get better with the W3 trait make Volstagg a threat to every figure in the set. His biggest drawback is mobility. A smart opponent may decide it’s better to decimate Redbeard’s transportation and run from the brute, than engage openly. If that’s the case – good luck winning with him – run fatboy! Run!

Here’s a key to victory:
Step 1: Dedicate a taxi to moving him around.
Step 2: Knock the teeth out of the other guy.
Step 3: Celebrate with a mug of mead.

For his cost, he’s amazingly effective – even without Charge. He could almost be 5.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: Strongly consider playing this figure.

ha060 E Kurse
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 121
Keywords: Armor, Asgardian, Brute, Warrior
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst811184810174810173791736916369162781627815267152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Relentless: Kurse can use Leap/Climb. After he resolves a move action, if Kurse is within 2 squares of an opposing character to which he has a clear line of fire, you can move him adjacent to that character.

Another damage dealing, cost effective monster. Unlike many other figures in the set, Kurse lacks sustainability. His attack value is a strait downward slope, so be wary of pushing and make every hit count. 4 damage Exploit Weakness with Super Strength is enough to take ANY of the HoT figures through half their dial. Leap/Climb will let him get to his target and grab an object while doing it.

Kurse is a tentpole killer, plain and simple. At 121 points he’ll have plenty of support to move into position. Base a figure like Thor with a minion, and force them to push. When the Tentpole is pushed, move Kurse into adjacency and push to attack the following round while they’re forced to clear.

Even off the top dial, Kurse remains a threat – CCE dishes out 5 damage, and he picks up some mobility with Charge. 3 clicks of Regeneration help him stay in the fight. He might need to regenerate just to hurt an Invulnerable enemy as his damage drops to 2 on his way out. Flurry helps spread the damage around, though it really just offsets the 8’s and 7 on attack.

In constructed, try using him with Vendetta to boost those mid dial AVs and make him into a real god-killer. In sealed, use him cautiously and with good strategy, you’ll be able to take down some of the bigger guns Asgard has to offer.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: Strongly consider playing this figure.

CHASE FIGURES

ha099 U Thorbuster
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 140
Keywords: Armor, Avengers
m-winga-fistd-normalg-starburst101118410101749101739101739917399174891748816388163KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Defense) Asgardian Crystal: Thorbuster can use toughness. Other characters using Quake, energy explosion, or running shot deal no damage to thorbuster

(Damage) To Fight A God: Thorbuster can use exploit weakness. When Thobuster attacks a character that has the Asgardian and/or Deity keywords, modify his damage value by +2


If only Hulkbuster looked this good. Thorbuster comes out of the gate firing – Running Shot with Pulse Wave will cut like a hot knife through a frog. Tony tops it off with an amazing Special Power that grants Toughness, and makes him immune to Quake (nice), Energy Explosion (with Toughness will it matter much?) and Running Shot (ZOMG!). That’s right – no damage from Running Shot. Yikes! Too bad his range is only 8, and Thor’s is 10. It will take some real finesse to use this power to full effect, but can easily prevent a first strike on Ironman.

Force Blast and Energy Explosion won’t amount to much in a fight with the gods, though it could prove handy against their minions. The TO FIGHT A GOD SP is what really sells Thorbuster. Exploit Weakness is always nice, but add to that a +2 damage bump (both at range and close up) against Asgardians and Deities, and you’ve got a winning combination. Unfortunately, by the time he sees the “godfighter” SP, Tony is winded, and struggles with a 9’s and 8’s on attacks. Should he hit a god, he’ll hit them hard with 5 or 6 damage.

While his attack potential drops, his defense ramps up, trading Toughness for Impervious and Invulnerability. This should keep him in the fight a little longer, long enough to land an attack or two. Steal Energy keeps Tony in the game, and is a welcome, if not surprising addition to the power set. With the right back up, this piece could do very, very well, but has too many vulnerabilities (Charge in particular) to make it bankable winner 100% of the time.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: Strongly consider playing this figure.
==============================================
ha100 U Thor, Frog of Thunder
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 72
Keywords: Animal, Asgardian, Warrior
m-boota-fistd-indomitableg-starburst510172611183611193611183510182KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Among the Weeds: Thor, Frog of Thunder can use Stealth. Lines of fire drawn to Thor, Frog of Thunder are blocked if he occupies water terrain.

(Attack) Leader of the Alligator Army: At the beginning of your turn, each opposing character within 6 squares of Thor, Frog of Thunder that is also adjacent to or occupying water terrain is dealt 1 damage.

(Damage) Body of a Frog: Thor, Frog of Thunder can use Shape Change and Exploit Weakness.

Trade me your chase Frog of Thunder!

Puddlegulp was mighty enough to wield Mjolnir. Are you lucky enough to pull a Chase figure? If you are, should you play him, or should you trade him to Anonym0use? (answer: both!)

Thor, Frog of Thunder has a dial as shallow as his pond, and therefore incurs some risk on the battlefield. He starts with 17 Toughness, which is altogether unremarkable in a set full of high damage values and damage reducing powers. Despite the Indomitable ability I’d recommend pushing right away onto that 18 Impervious just to feel a little more secure. If giving up 20% of your dial doesn’t seem like a great idea, consider that Throg picks up Shape Change which also keeps him safe from harm.
Trade me your chase Frog of Thunder!
What else can keep him safe? Stealth. Both the standard variety, and the special kind granted when you occupy water terrain will keep the swamp dweller safe in his natural habitat. Stealth sniping won’t amount to much with a 4 range, but at least it’s an option, and may force opponents to get up close, at which point he can Exploit Weakness. LEADER OF THE ALLIGATOR ARMY gives the amphibian some bite, though like Gert & Old Lace – this is damage dealt and therefore subject to reduction.
Trade me your chase Frog of Thunder!
Thor, Frog of Thunder is a great figure, with steady attack, damage and defense values. Speed is a little slow, and the lack of Leap/Climb is a slight disappointment. He won’t win many battles on his lonesome, but can easily hold down figures twice his cost (and size!) if his luck holds strong.
Trade me your chase Frog of Thunder!

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: Strongly consider playing this figure.

Quebbster
11/25/2009, 07:16
Quake is always fun as a giant Ė again Ė extra reach and all.
Just wanted to point out that giants no longer get the extended reach for Quake attacks. One of the drawbacks of the revised giant rules in the FF rulebook...

Quebbster
11/25/2009, 07:19
A trait that grants Invulnerability can't be countered.
Let's just say not everyone in the Rules of Combat forum agrees with this.

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 07:33
Well there you have it. I hope you all have enjoyed reading these as much as I liked writing and rating them. It seems to me that HoT is a very well balanced set - no one pull will guarantee a victory, the way pulling a KC Flash or Ultimate Thor would signal "automatic win." The set's biggest drawback might be the lack of a fifth element - at least Bystanders and feats to round out sealed builds. I know most aren't complaining about the lack of cardboard, and in recent memory there were often too many added elements to collect, even if you bought a case, so I'm not exactly shedding a tear there either.

I know I haven't been the biggest advocate of HoT on these forums. I've said time and again, that I don't care much for the Thor line of Marvel comics, and many of the subsets in the expansion don't excite me. This could almost be Indyclix part 2 - with the number of semi-obscure teams that have an Indy title feel represented (Runaways, AoA, GotG) and the inclusion of some third and fourth tier characters (Karnilla? Malekith?). This was a set for fans, and it was a brave move on Neca's part to release it with so few A-list characters represented.

Still, I know if I was a fan, I'd love this set, and I have to say I'm a lot jealous of Thor fans right now. I also have to say the set won me over as a player and collector. There are many dials and/or sculpts that make me want to play certain teams I'd never think of playing, and I think that is a great sign that the product line is in good hands.

I hope we see more of the Minion mechanic, specifically DC could make great use of this with umpteen generics available (Parademons, Amazons, Easy Company) and I eagerly anticipate both the next DC expansion and the next Marvel expansion. There may be a few wrinkles to iron out, but if either is as good as HoT, they'll have me hooked. :)

Final note, (because I'm sure some will take umbrage with my ratings):
I almost gave Gert a 1 :d-indomitable: and Volstagg a 5 :d-indomitable: But Gert didn't strike me as a "play as a last resort" piece, as she's on par with many of the set's minions. She'll be slow to get into combat which may make her a better clean up piece though. Volstagg is great, but could get shot up before he does anything.

UltimateSpidey
11/25/2009, 07:44
ultron has impervious first 3 clicks, not invulerability

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 07:48
Fixed it. Thanks!

brojase
11/25/2009, 08:17
For some reason, I feel like I need to acquire a Thor, Frog of Thunder and trade it to you...


Great read BTW!

Crow
11/25/2009, 08:44
Just wanted to point out that giants no longer get the extended reach for Quake attacks. One of the drawbacks of the revised giant rules in the FF rulebook...

Huh? Since when? Can you quote the relevant scripture?

Edit: ARGH, I can't believe I didn't notice the language change in the FF rulebook!

Quebbster
11/25/2009, 08:53
Huh? Since when?
As I said, since the giants rules were revised in the FF rulebook.
Can you quote the relevant scripture?

QUAKE Give this character a close combat action; until the attack has been resolved, this characterís damage value becomes 2 if it is greater than 2. Make a single attack roll and compare the result to the defense values of all opposing adjacent characters. Each character that takes damage from this attack is knocked back.
GIANT SIZE (non-optional) This character canít be knocked back and ignores other charactersí Force Blast and Plasticity powers. This ability canít be countered or canceled.
Close combat attacks. This character can make close combat attacks against elevated characters, even when this character is grounded. This character can also make close combat attacks against target opposing characters up to two squares away, even if a character (friendly or opposing) or an object occupies a square between this character and the target; the attack canít be made if blocking terrain, elevated terrain, or a wall would block an otherwise clear line of fre between this character and the target.
The kicker is that Quake targets all adjacent enemies; Giants are no longer considered adjacent from two squares away, they can just perform close combat attacks from that distance. That's not the same thing.

Crow
11/25/2009, 08:55
Thanks for shattering my world first thing in the morning, Quebb. :P

Aww man, that was part of what I loved about Atlas right there...

Puuka
11/25/2009, 08:59
Puddlegulp was mighty enough to wield Mjolnir. Are you lucky enough to pull a Chase figure? If you are, should you play him, or should you trade him to Anonym0use? (answer: both!)


His card says he's the Thor version, not Puddlegulp.

Deadpool55
11/25/2009, 09:01
Great reviews. Definitely a big fan of this set.

Can't wait to try out Thor Buster!!

sputnik102
11/25/2009, 09:05
Excellent! Love the overviews.

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 09:19
His card says he's the Thor version, not Puddlegulp.

Can you mail me both the card and figure, so I can identify it? I'll happily post a retraction once I see the figure and card in hand. :p

Besides: it's fun to say.

Puddlegulp!

Puddlegulp!

Puddlegulp!

WolvieFan9
11/25/2009, 09:19
Great review as always, and my utmost respect for taking on the time-consuming task of these evaluations! (I just wish they'd all been done before the Sealed event I played on Saturday, but I did get to read the Commons review before I played, and that definitely helped me get back in the mindset, so thanks again for that.)

I would disagree with your :d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: evaluation for Valkyrie, though -- I used her in that Sealed game we played and she was fantastic.

(DISCLAIMER: Our game was 350 points, so she wasn't quite the half of the team she would be if it was a 300 point game. I think the evaluation of her performance is still appropriate, though, as the difference is relatively small.)

Her 12 move with Charge and the Transporter ability allowed her to get first strike on her primary target every time. And with Super Strength and 4 natural damage, she can hit for 5 or 6 damage -- a very effective strike in this Invulnerability-heavy set. Her 11 AV means she's got a decent chance of hitting an 18 Defense, and she can even use the move+attack ability without an abysmal chance of hitting. AND, when she does it, she can bring a friend along to plop next to her target, helping protect her though 1) blocking LOF, 2) spreading out the attacks to other targets, and 3) allowing her to not have to push the next turn and keep her on that 11 AV/18 DV/4 Dam click.

She is double-based, but not a Giant, so she can relatively easily use terrain to protect herself from first-strike attacks before she gets to Charge. And on the Rainbow Bridge map, she can use the elevated terrain columns very effectively (as the fights tend to focus around those columns, at least in my experience)... she just hides behind them and zooms over the top or around them to attack.

In each of the three games I played with her, I faced a common Thor. Each time, she was able to smack him hard with a long Charge/move+attack to begin the whittling-away process on the Thunder God.

Also, at 145 points, she's cheap enough that even though she does fill half the team, in this set, there are so many ridiculously effective figures in the 30-70 point range that she can afford two or three good companions to back her up. (In my games, she always brought M-11 along for the attack... and he's a beast himself when he's taxi'd in.)

Again, I respect your evaluation, but I just wanted to add a little play experience into the discussion -- she was definitely the MVP of my team and I think is one of my favorite figures from the set.

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 09:27
Thanks for the comments Wolviefan9! I think If I pulled a Valkyrie, I'd be very tempted to play it. I'm just one of those guys that Super Senses seems to work against, and never for. She's definitely a borderline 4, that hinges on one thing - if she has a teammate that can giver her a consistent 17 defense - she's golden. I expect to see her & LE Samantha put to good use on a lot of constructed teams.

sengirv
11/25/2009, 09:42
1st off let me say that I love the reviews.

I do however have to disagree with Loki's 4/5 rating. I pulled him in the sealed and paired him up with valkyrie and asguardian warrior for a nice theme team. All anyone had to do was base him with any schlub with 5 clicks or more and they effectively took Loki out of the game for MANY turns. As a tent pole team, you are missing a move and attack ability and indom/Power Cosmic ability to act two turns in a row. My 1st game saw Venom just totally shut Loki down between Super Senses, shape change and Plasticity Loki was the god of miss, versus the god of mischief.

Another game Thor just had a buddy lock down Loki and took shots from range. This was possible because of the utter lack of hindering terrain on this map. With Indom, thor simply out actioned Loki.

He did not shine in the least in my matches, and I'd rate him 2/5, maybe even 3/5, but in no way is he a strong play unless the rest of your pulls are drek.

Vevilaughs
11/25/2009, 09:48
Thanks for the reviews!

I want to like the Valkyrie SR more, but the "Indy-fied" natural damage and B/C/F clixs just seems like a waste. Would her transporter "move and attack" power bypass Heimdall's defense SP?

Probably would have given Thorbuster 5 shields though. When in this sealed game is someone not going to be playing at least 1 piece that will activate his damage SP? (rarely I believe). I see his worth in constructed at a solid 4, but in this sealed format, his worth goes up IMO.

Teletran
11/25/2009, 09:54
Nice review!

I just want to add a couple of things:
1. As was mentioned by Puuka, the Thor Frog is indeed Thor himself... and not Throg per se.
2. Odin vs Ulik to be interesting??? Odin has teleport/phasing. Ulik basing him shouldn't be a problem at all. 1 on 1 is a SURE win for Odin. (this assumes the player handling Odin is wise enough with his token action management and not be "outwitted" by the Ulik player)
3. Agree with sengirv there on Loki.... range really is watered down if based by an annoying tie up piece. If only Loki had psychic blast/poison SP on his attack slot.

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 09:56
Thanks for the reviews!

I want to like the Valkyrie SR more, but the "Indy-fied" natural damage and B/C/F clixs just seems like a waste. Would her transporter "move and attack" power bypass Heimdall's defense SP?

Yes actually, and I forgot to mention it. D'oh! Heimdall's power specifically mentions RS, HSS & Charge, not M&A.

Probably would have given Thorbuster 5 shields though. When in this sealed game is someone not going to be playing at least 1 piece that will activate his damage SP? (rarely I believe). I see his worth in constructed at a solid 4, but in this sealed format, his worth goes up IMO.

I was really on the 4/5 fence with Thorbuster. I wish he had some opening Outwit or a better attack at his end dial. What's the point in doing 6 clicks, if you need a 10 to hit?

I'd love to be the guy that pulls Thorbuster and 2x Jimmy Woo...

Miraclo
11/25/2009, 10:38
A final congratulations and thanks on a nicely done set of articles. These are always appreciated, especially as they also help spotlight the features and failings of some of the complex power combinations.

I can't quite tell if a great many of the venues have gone over to a 400 pt format rather than a 300 pt one, or if it's just the same comments from a small group of frequent posters. The people behind the game at the old company repeatedly noted that the game is structured to work optimally at 300 pt builds, but we have no clear indication if the new Wizkids will be sticking to that or just letting it be determined by each venue.

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 10:45
I'm not opposed to 400 points sealed, though I do think 300 allows for a nice system of checks and balances. Figures like Thor & Odin are difficult to manage as is - tack on 100 points of possible support, and the entire face of the game changes. Rating figures is definitely a completely different game with that extra 100 points in the mix.

My venue is running a 300 point, one booster sealed event, and I expect that to create quite a headache among people that are forced to build short.

1clickbraindmg
11/25/2009, 10:57
I second the Valkyrie-love. Surtur I'm glad to have 'in case' it's ruled Ragnarok Surtur doesn't count for Fire Demons, but she was without question my Charging, Super-Strengthening, Transportering, Imperviousening MVP in the Marquee. (This is the first time I got two SRs in one brick neither of whom fits in a Plano-box, and they are thus relegated to a Tupperware bin with their fellow huge hunks of plastic.)

Ignatz_Mouse
11/25/2009, 11:03
I think I'd give Odin 2 stars for sealed. With only 8 range, and a lot of common Thors being pulled, he's going to get beat by being attacked from just out of range.

Nice D, for sure, but with no move-and-attack and a lot of cheap tie-up pieces in the set, I don't think he can win.

The night of the release, a local venue played 400 points sealed, and I beat a combo of Odin and Frog of Thunder with Thor, balder and Asgardian Warrior. Thor could outmanovuer Odin, and the one time I needed a tie-up piece just for a turn, Asgardian Warrior was happy to oblige. He also block LOF to Odin's Outwit, which was the one thing I was worried about.

Odin will win many a game, but have a hard time with a whole tournament.

Denim Demon
11/25/2009, 11:48
Great stuff as always m0use!! Now i wish i had a venue that supported sealed tourneys......

Mr. Pilkington
11/25/2009, 12:30
Surtur definitely has challenges to overcome. The opening toughness just begs opponents to hit him past all of his Impervious. Fandral Outwitted the Shape Change and Heimdall clocked him straight into Invul. Things would have gone even worse had there been any real ranged combat in the game. He does make the Fire Demons a lot better, but I'm not sure what support will help. At least once my Fenris blocked Fandral's LOS (sadly Fenris wasn't around too long to do that).

He also doesn't like to stand up. I ended up improvising a stand for him by cutting out one of the end pieces of a booster tray. It was hard to get figures adjacent to him and took a while to click him but at at least he never fell over. Maybe ID rings will help (not that I have any of them).

BarryAllen
11/25/2009, 12:41
I beat Thorbuster with thor.
Thor+heavy item+ box cars = poopy buster
:)

FlatFootedBoy
11/25/2009, 12:47
Loki actually has 9 clicks. The HCRealms gallery is wrong.
His fifth click looks like this
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal99162

Don't know if that affects your rating!

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 12:59
Someone asked me if I thought Ragnarok Surtur was better than the SR. My answer is a simple: Heck yes!

The best thing about him, IMO, is the fact that he won't need feats like Fortitude or Armor Piercing to be effective.

Yes, you can equip him with Shellhead, Repulsor SHield, etc. But the PC TA means no worrying about Outwit. Upfront Imperv + 5 damage and Super Strength AND Charge guarantee he'll deal damage when he hits. He picks up 4 range - could be useful I suppose. Damage Soaking Poison and the ability to deal damage to every character in his line of fire with SPs is truly fearsome.

He costs more but is also a greater force to be reckoned with. :d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable:

Now I just need to get my hands on one.:devious:

Space Jawa
11/25/2009, 13:03
Methinks that there's a m0use on this board who'd very much like to acquire a Frog of Thunder. Can't blame him, though. I wouldn't mind having one too. Can't help but love silly concepts like that.

Ignatz_Mouse
11/25/2009, 13:13
Methinks that there's a m0use on this board who'd very much like to acquire a Frog of Thunder. Can't blame him, though. I wouldn't mind having one too. Can't help but love silly concepts like that.

Probably at least two mice, in fact. It's the last thing I need from the set!

Plus, my spare chase lamppost Batman feels neglected!

dantheman5999
11/25/2009, 13:38
I think seth is a pretty good piece overall.

I love the volstagg review I played him and went 3 - 0.

Sigdr
11/25/2009, 13:40
Happy am I to see the love for Volstagg. I pulled the entire Warriors Three in our 2-booster sealed 300 point event last Saturday, so of course I had no choice but to play them. The Three tore up the four standard rounds, though the battle I had against Thor in the fourth round cannot be attributed to personal success - the Thor player simply forgot that Fandral's leap/climb allows him to attack cross-elevation, and well, suffice to say that no god of thunder enjoys getting sworded for six damage before he has the chance to hit anyone.

I lost in the final to Moonstone+Moonstone+Cap+Ninja+Ninja+something (Jimmy Woo?), but Volstagg went down fighting - he managed to drop one Moonstone by flinging a motorcycle at her, and successfully bludgeoned Captain America into unconsciousness before succumbing to Outwit-related injuries (curse you, Moonstone's Phasing!).

Before this set, using an all-0-range team against a team with any significant range at all was usually suicide - so the Warriors made me proud with their performance on this day (beating up Destroyer, Thorbuster, Phyla-Vell, etc), on a map that favours range to a ridiculous extent. I look forward to trying them out again in Constructed, where I expect they'll still be a force to be reckoned with.

Surfer13
11/25/2009, 13:53
I'd love to be the guy that pulls Thorbuster and 2x Jimmy Woo...
Well, that would be quite the trick seeing as how Thorbuster will come with four other super rares.
Besides, wouldn't you rather be the guy that pulls Frog of Thunder and anything? :p

Let's just say not everyone in the Rules of Combat forum agrees with this.
Really? I am going to have to stroll over there and see what legs these people are trying to stand on.

Sigdr
11/25/2009, 13:56
Well, that would be quite the trick seeing as how Thorbuster will come with four other super rares.
Besides, wouldn't you rather be the guy that pulls Frog of Thunder and anything? :p


Really? I am going to have to stroll over there and see what legs these people are trying to stand on.

Incredibly dubious legs, if you ask me.

gatharion
11/25/2009, 14:09
Never since the advent of the new distribution model has a set had so many Super Rares that I covet.
And I'm primarily a DC guy.

ophyjgjhnfn
11/25/2009, 14:14
Bloody killed my Thunderbolts team. Thanks Quebbster. There goes Atlas... On another note, anyone want a Throg or Seth?

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 14:21
Yes please to the throg!

valtrades
11/25/2009, 14:54
Let's just say not everyone in the Rules of Combat forum agrees with this.

well, too bad for them. It clearly states in the FF rulebook that traits cannot be countered. That makes Thor and Loki a MUCH better piece in my opinion

"Traits are abilities, powers, effects, or other aspects of a character that it
possesses at all times, regardless of how its combat dial is turned during
a game. Traits are indicated by the symbol in the circle next to the
name and/or description of the trait on a character card.
All traits are non-optional and canít be countered"
FF rulebook, page 19

valtrades
11/25/2009, 14:55
saw a guy at our sealed event pull 2 of the same God Pack! now he has 2 Throgs!

dantheman5999
11/25/2009, 14:56
Happy am I to see the love for Volstagg. I pulled the entire Warriors Three in our 2-booster sealed 300 point event last Saturday, so of course I had no choice but to play them. The Three tore up the four standard rounds, though the battle I had against Thor in the fourth round cannot be attributed to personal success - the Thor player simply forgot that Fandral's leap/climb allows him to attack cross-elevation, and well, suffice to say that no god of thunder enjoys getting sworded for six damage before he has the chance to hit anyone.

I lost in the final to Moonstone+Moonstone+Cap+Ninja+Ninja+something (Jimmy Woo?), but Volstagg went down fighting - he managed to drop one Moonstone by flinging a motorcycle at her, and successfully bludgeoned Captain America into unconsciousness before succumbing to Outwit-related injuries (curse you, Moonstone's Phasing!).

Before this set, using an all-0-range team against a team with any significant range at all was usually suicide - so the Warriors made me proud with their performance on this day (beating up Destroyer, Thorbuster, Phyla-Vell, etc), on a map that favours range to a ridiculous extent. I look forward to trying them out again in Constructed, where I expect they'll still be a force to be reckoned with.

Ya you played an insane team in the finals to pull those figures in two boosters is crazy its the perfect anti-hammer of Thor team.

Sigdr
11/25/2009, 14:59
well, too bad for them. It clearly states in the FF rulebook that traits cannot be countered. That makes Thor and Loki a MUCH better piece in my opinion

"Traits are abilities, powers, effects, or other aspects of a character that it
possesses at all times, regardless of how its combat dial is turned during
a game. Traits are indicated by the symbol in the circle next to the
name and/or description of the trait on a character card.
All traits are non-optional and canít be countered"
FF rulebook, page 19

The argument is that this particular trait gives Invulnerability, and Invulnerability is a power, and powers can be countered.
I don`t agree, but there it is.

malakim2099
11/25/2009, 15:42
The argument is that this particular trait gives Invulnerability, and Invulnerability is a power, and powers can be countered.
I don`t agree, but there it is.

How is the power granted?

By a trait. Which can't be countered.

Or better yet, answer me this: Show me where ON THE DIAL that Invulnerability appears for Thor/Loki, so that you can counter it. Everything that Outwit can affect appears on the dial of the figure (unless you have Thwart, but that's a special exception per the feat).

I would like to know who's arguing that it "can" be countered, just so I know who not to support as a new RA. :p

Anyway, I think Thor/Loki is an excellent figure, and I really want to get one. And I think it'll be great in 400+ tourneys, with the sheer amount of bad###ery that the classic duo brings. And if you read the Sagas... yeah, Thor/Loki might not be the most accurate, comics-wise, but it's a pretty common occurrence in the classic tales that the comics are based on. :)

Quebbster
11/25/2009, 15:59
People, please.
Go to Rules of Combat if you want to discuss the countering of trait-granted powers.
I don't want to have to lock this thread, but if it goes too far off-topic I may have no other choice.

Stick to the reviews for now. :)

Pepsirox08
11/25/2009, 16:09
venus should not get shields... she is horrible... and loki should get 5 shields!

eshuroger
11/25/2009, 16:30
Yeah, Volstagg is really good. I pulled him and Hogun in the one sealed game I've played, and I even forgot to use his +1 attack while Hogun was on the map, half the time, and still, two out of three games, Volstagg was the last figure on the map.

Dikarika
11/25/2009, 16:39
I'll need to disagree with your review of Seth.

I put him with Karolina and Pluto and shot from range.

Worked pretty well, especially with Seth's Probability Control... ;)

Arsenalroy2k
11/25/2009, 16:53
ha049 V Ultron
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: Hank Pym wishes he was this effective.

I would disagree that Ultron is *that* good. I've seen him in action this past week and while he's certainly an effective piece, with the amount of cheap cannon fodder and high damage pieces with Psychic Blast or Exploit Weakness in this set, he's also certainly proven to be vulnerable to being based while figures like Moonstone or M-11 zap him right past his Impervious clicks. At which point, you have to hope you actually still have the Mastermind fodder adjacent to him. And you really have to hope that you'll ever get the chance to use his Regen, once he gets that.

And his 12 range becomes surprisingly ineffective if played on the Hot Asgard map where there's plenty of places to hide.

Harpua
11/25/2009, 17:06
Let's just say not everyone in the Rules of Combat forum agrees with this.

Sorry to butt in here with this again. I just wanted to point out that I don't see anything in T&L's trait which can be countered. It allows the power to be used, but it does not give possession of the power. You cannot counter a power which is not possessed...or a trait. (If the trait gave possession of the power, then that is a different story as the power is a different beast at that point.)

leonitus the floater
11/25/2009, 17:21
Is indomitable optional? can it be outwitted or something? dont you have to get hit to get onto his good clicks? or am I missing something here? and why am I asking so many questions?

EDIT: heh heh, whups, I forgot to mention who I was talking about. I was talking about thor, frog of thunder.

gatharion
11/25/2009, 17:38
I'd have liked to see Venus' special power be something that gave her Incap or could function like Taunt. A third bolt would have been good too.

Justinfrombelton
11/25/2009, 17:50
Loved the review! I think that Thor and Loki need a little more love. I pulled them in the last tournament and it was a 400 pt sealed and I absolutely dominated with them. I played them with the rookie Valkyrie and they were never knocked out. The trick is perplexing up their defense and using running shot to get the first strike then using a duo ranged shot. Their isn't much outwit in this set so that helps them out a bunch. I know that you said there is a lot to forget but when you are using them you are probably only going to have 2 or 3 characters which forces to to study their card while your opponent is moving his 5 or 6 characters. They really are a powerhouse when played right but not unbeatable.

Ignatz_Mouse
11/25/2009, 17:55
I am surprised my "Odin is a two-star figure" comment didn't garner any rebutal or argument.

mcrounds
11/25/2009, 18:12
Here you go Mouse. I played Odin last weekend in our sealed. On the Bridge map he never had to worry about running shot and was able to lure Thor in. I won two games and lost one. The game I lost I rolled 3 misses and my opponent had two perplexers on Phyla Vel (she also rolled SS twice). In most of my matches it was a "meet in the middle and hack it out kind of game. The key was making sure Odin didn't get hit off his first click. Once he gets on his SS clicks he's in a lot of trouble. You have to play smart, but I think 4 shields is right on the money for a sealed tourny.

Samaritan
11/25/2009, 18:34
Another nice article!
And rep to you sir!

Now, does Loki have 8 or 9 clicks? That makes a big difference on his 208 cost...

malakim2099
11/25/2009, 18:59
I am surprised my "Odin is a two-star figure" comment didn't garner any rebutal or argument.

It's a gambling figure, playing one figure in sealed is a risk. Even if he is the 295 point ZOMG Allfather. :)

Personally, I'd go 3 shields... it really depends on what else you pull.

Also, Loki SR has 9 clicks. I just pulled one and checked.

Thunderclese
11/25/2009, 19:24
I did pretty well with Malekith and Venus MC'ing all over the place. Didn't win all 3 games, but one 2 of them. Of course Mal's big lack of LOS requirements helped, and when Venus got based, I used the SP to take them out for a turn or two. And with her consistent attack, I wasn't worried about pushing her once or twice if needed.

Russian132
11/25/2009, 21:37
Thor and Loki also have the mystics team ability, in my opinion that makes them very worthy of play in constructed and high point sealed games.
In constructed you could thunderbolt any team ability and still have the mystics team ability, amazing.

spiderhero
11/25/2009, 22:26
What about Ragnarok Surtur?

malakim2099
11/25/2009, 22:47
I did pretty well with Malekith and Venus MC'ing all over the place. Didn't win all 3 games, but one 2 of them. Of course Mal's big lack of LOS requirements helped, and when Venus got based, I used the SP to take them out for a turn or two. And with her consistent attack, I wasn't worried about pushing her once or twice if needed.

That's because I have the Eyes in the Back of my Head pow...

Oh, you mean MALEKITH.

:)

malakim2099
11/25/2009, 22:48
What about Ragnarok Surtur?

What about him?

You can't really pull him out of a booster, can you? :)

Cyclops2342
11/25/2009, 22:53
For seth you state:

Giant-ness might be good, except it's not optional, and is saddled with Battle Fury, taking away his 10 range.

Why is this again?

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 23:22
For seth you state:

Giant-ness might be good, except it's not optional, and is saddled with Battle Fury, taking away his 10 range.

Why is this again?


Why is it non optional? Because it says - non optional on the Special power that grants giant-ness and BF. :ermm:

Battle Fury won't let you use ranged attacks.


Does that make sense?

anonym0use
11/25/2009, 23:23
I'll need to disagree with your review of Seth.

I put him with Karolina and Pluto and shot from range.

Worked pretty well, especially with Seth's Probability Control... ;)

Pluto who has enhancement? ;)

Mr. Pilkington
11/25/2009, 23:25
For seth you state:

Giant-ness might be good, except it's not optional, and is saddled with Battle Fury, taking away his 10 range.

Why is this again?

He's referring to Seth's special power:

SNAKEFORM: (non-optional) Seth has the [Giant] damage symbol. Seth uses Battle Fury and Shape Change.

Given the way it is worded Seth is permanently a Giant (unlike say Yellowjacket from SI) and the Battle Fury means he cannot make a ranged attack as per the PAC:

BATTLE FURY (NON-OPTIONAL) This character can’t make ranged combat attacks, can’t be targeted by Mind Control or Possession, and can’t be carried.


So once he hits the mid-point on his dial he switches to a close combat only Giant, quite different from his capable ranged attacks on the front half.

sengirv
11/25/2009, 23:54
venus should not get shields... she is horrible... and loki should get 5 shields!

When a craptacular piece like Owl can take Loki out of the game indefinitely because of NO move and attack and no Power Cosmic/indom, loki should in no way get a 5 out of 5.

larthosgrr8
11/26/2009, 00:06
i don't know why all the owl hate!! he rocks IMO!! i don't mind my low point figure possibly doing 7 to you all by himself! yeah reducers are awesome but there is tons of psy blast in this set. i know it's a gamble to trust in SS, but isn't that half the fun of the game??

i think sr valk is a beats! she can do soo much damage and just keep getting healed up by her sisters! i also think seth is a steal for what he can do! he's almost like m-11 but with longer range! the loki sr is just money as well! put ulik by loki and watch ulik take one damage and then pound whoever just attacked loki. pair them up with a rookie valk and you're good to go!

i've played against thor/loki twice and just pulled him tonight, and he's a beast! a royal pain in the but and the biggest target on the field! sure you can outwit him, but most times that means you are in range of them(fandral,kingpin) or are gonna get based and beat up(loki/hela). they bring so much to the table it's not even funny! hela is my fav sr from this set! i've never wanted to push a click so much in my life! her dial is like the joker from jla. it just makes me want to roll dice, and watch the chaos! i can roll an 11 with the best of them, so touch of life is my fav power in the game!!

Justinfrombelton
11/26/2009, 00:36
Thor and Loki also have the mystics team ability, in my opinion that makes them very worthy of play in constructed and high point sealed games.
In constructed you could thunderbolt any team ability and still have the mystics team ability, amazing.

Or thunderbolt arachnos team ability and do double mystics!!!!

Cyaegha
11/26/2009, 04:22
I hope we see more of the Minion mechanic, specifically DC could make great use of this with umpteen generics available (Parademons, Amazons, Easy Company) and I eagerly anticipate both the next DC expansion and the next Marvel expansion.And gargareans (male Amazons to fight with or against regular ones....Ooooh, I so want it to do a War Of The Gods between greek Amazons and gods against Asgardians!!), and khunds, and thanagarians, and (why not?) kryptonians, etc...Always thought that, when it comes to generics, Marvel got better figs than DC (i'm still waiting for a DC equivalent of the Kree/Skrul/Shi'ar/Badoon set found in Supernova).

Stainawarjar
11/26/2009, 08:41
Concerning Venus... I thought you couldn't Mind Control somebody to use Mind Control anymore?

Quebbster
11/26/2009, 09:01
Concerning Venus... I thought you couldn't Mind Control somebody to use Mind Control anymore?

Sure you can. Why wouldn't you be able to?

malakim2099
11/26/2009, 10:03
Concerning Venus... I thought you couldn't Mind Control somebody to use Mind Control anymore?

When did that happen?

One of my fondest memories of clix was using a Vet Saturn Girl to MC the enemy Doctor Psycho into MCing about 500 points worth of the enemy team. :p

vamroc
11/26/2009, 10:06
And gargareans (male Amazons to fight with or against regular ones....Ooooh, I so want it to do a War Of The Gods between greek Amazons and gods against Asgardians!!), and khunds, and thanagarians, and (why not?) kryptonians, etc...Always thought that, when it comes to generics, Marvel got better figs than DC (i'm still waiting for a DC equivalent of the Kree/Skrul/Shi'ar/Badoon set found in Supernova).

DC'S equivalent of the Kree/Skrul/Shi'ar/Badoon is Blackhawks, Intergang, Parademons, Police, it's really annoying that we've got steady updates for the Marvel stuff but not DC.

TheMooCow
11/26/2009, 11:03
i dont know why anyone would argue that thor and lokis invulnerability can be outwitted. when any other trait in the game cant be

vamroc
11/26/2009, 11:33
i dont know why anyone would argue that thor and lokis invulnerability can be outwitted. when any other trait in the game cant be

If a charactor has a Trait that says the charactor possesses a power that power can be outwitted because the charactor has a power too outwit.

Traits that state a charactor uses a power can't have the use of that power outwitted because their just using the power and don't actually have that power so because the charactor doesn't possesse the power it can't be outwitted.

Thor and Loki's trait is they USE Invulnerability so the use of that power can't be outwitted.

The use and or possession of a power via a Trait also grants the figure use of a feat based on the power their using or possessing. For example Venom's trait allows him to use Leap Climb so Venom can use the feats Lunge, Pounce, or Passenger. Also Venom doesn't possesse Leap Climb simply it's use so an opposing charactor can do almost nothing to prevent the use of those feats.

bilbo
11/26/2009, 12:15
I'm sure i'm the only one here... but in reference to Odin...what's O.M.A.?
thanks

malakim2099
11/26/2009, 12:25
I'm sure i'm the only one here... but in reference to Odin...what's O.M.A.?
thanks

One Man Army.

Basically, just playing one figure as your team, plus feats and possible pogs (back when they made pogs). :)

bilbo
11/26/2009, 16:52
One Man Army.
Basically, just playing one figure as your team, plus feats and possible pogs (back when they made pogs). :)

Yes of course... i'm such a dolt... thanks. :-D

Iceman425
11/26/2009, 20:06
Uh...yeah....I want a Throg...

Two things. (and I'm gonna feel like a noob asking this)...

1) You stated in Valkyrie's review that BCF won't work with Move and Attack. I assume you were talking about the HSS-Lite Transporter move, but her Charge/BCF combo still works correct?

2) Minion Mechanic. Can you explain please?

Sigdr
11/26/2009, 20:20
"Minion" by itself is meaningless - just read the text of the powers as usual, and that's what they do. "Minion" is just an umbrella word that allows you to easily identify powers that rely on the presence of a particular, stronger allied figure.

Iceman425
11/26/2009, 21:24
Got ya.

Fill-er?

chrispy3000
11/27/2009, 02:10
1) You stated in Valkyrie's review that BCF won't work with Move and Attack. I assume you were talking about the HSS-Lite Transporter move, but her Charge/BCF combo still works correct?

Yeah, it's one of those technicality word choice deals. BCF states when given a close combat "action" where the Transporter Move & Attack states that you can give the character a combat "attack" so that rules out BCF. As for the Charge+BCF, absolutely legit. One of the best figures to utilize this combo in the HoT set is Fenris Wolf = Charge+BCF+Exploit Weakness = Deadly. Hope that clears that up :)

DarthRuss
11/27/2009, 14:31
I've seen a lot of complaints online about some of the small-base HoT Clix being hard to click. All that's required is a little surgery. Just pop off the bottom of the base, trim a little of the tab off that fits into the notches, and slap the base back together. Now onto more important gripes, like why does a figure with a 12 range (Ultron) have Charge and not Running Shot anyway???

anonym0use
11/30/2009, 13:04
I've seen a lot of complaints online about some of the small-base HoT Clix being hard to click. All that's required is a little surgery. Just pop off the bottom of the base, trim a little of the tab off that fits into the notches, and slap the base back together. Now onto more important gripes, like why does a figure with a 12 range (Ultron) have Charge and not Running Shot anyway???

He has running shot, just late dial is all. I would suspect Charge helps him deal with Stealth - if it wasn't for the Pulse Wave that is. Charge will let him get up close to a figure who is constantly guarded by LoF blockers.

anonym0use
11/30/2009, 13:08
Uh...yeah....I want a Throg...

Two things. (and I'm gonna feel like a noob asking this)...

1) You stated in Valkyrie's review that BCF won't work with Move and Attack. I assume you were talking about the HSS-Lite Transporter move, but her Charge/BCF combo still works correct?



We Normally associate the Move and Attack ability with Transporters. However, the two are not attached at the hip. Take, for instance, the Incredible Hulk LE from MuMo:

SPEED OF CHARGING DREADNAUGHT: Incredible Hulk can use the move and attack ability.

Nowhere does it say transporter. It can be misleading at times especially when language refers to someone's move and attack power (like Charge, HSS, Running Shot).

Point being - Charge can work with B/C/F. Sorry about the mix up. I'm guessing you weren't the only one confused by that. :cross-eye

Iceman425
12/02/2009, 13:22
Is there an actual Marquee for this set?

disciple1976
12/14/2009, 00:40
Very nice anonym0use! I have always enjoyed reading your reviews.