Legendary Day BFC: what exactly is an 'ability'?

[sinistersex]

As the title suggests: Legendary Day says 'Abilities cannot be countered...'; so that does NOT include Powers, right? what qualifies as 'abilities'?

[RavenProject]

As the title suggests: Legendary Day says 'Abilities cannot be countered...'; so that does NOT include Powers, right? what qualifies as 'abilities'?

When in doubt, check the glossary...
ability: A capability possessed by a character, usually indicated by a symbol on its base or explained on its character card.
powers: A character’s special abilities. Powers are represented on a character’s combat dial by colored squares surrounding the character’s combat values and by similarly colored circles on a character’s character card.
So yes, Legendary Day protects the abilities granted by Powers.

-J

[TalonMC]

When in doubt, check the glossary...


So yes, Legendary Day protects the abilities granted by Powers.

-J

I would have to disagree with RavenProject on this.

Powers and Abilities are referred to separately on other cards. I believe the "abilities" covered by this BFC would be team abilities indicated by a team symbol on the figure's base and combat abilities indicated by a figure's combat icons on its base (and described in the F4 rulebook). Combat abilities include Flight, Swim, Carry, Move And Attack, Sharpshooter, Duo Attack, Indomitable, Giant Size, Giant Stride, Colossal Size, and Capture.

-MC

[Critical Hug!]

That just seems silly that the intent of this BFC is to only protect "abilities" like flight, duo and carry. It surely is nice to have them protected, but it hardly seems "legendary".
I would be willing to put money on the fact that this card was created to give all characters a pseudo "Power Cosmic." That would certainly be legendary.
I agree with where all the unofficial rulings are leaning, but I sure hope this is officially ruled to cover "All Powers and Abilities".
Two cents are up. Thank you for your time.

[Crow]

That just seems silly that the intent of this BFC is to only protect "abilities" like flight, duo and carry. It surely is nice to have them protected, but it hardly seems "legendary".
I would be willing to put money on the fact that this card was created to give all characters a pseudo "Power Cosmic." That would certainly be legendary.
I agree with where all the unofficial rulings are leaning, but I sure hope this is officially ruled to cover "All Powers and Abilities".
Two cents are up. Thank you for your time.

Silly, perhaps, but abilities are clearly defined.

Rulebook: "Abilities are special capabilities a character possesses, regardless of how its combat dial is turned during a game. There are three
types of abilities: combat abilities, team abilities, and special
abilities. Combat abilities and team abilities are indicated by
symbols printed on a character’s base, while special abilities are
typically indicated on a character’s character card."

Abilities are NOT powers. They are: 1) capabilities granted by combat symbols, 2) team abilities, and 3) special abilities (like Capture, Multi-attack)

[WhoaDirty]

The definition for abilities in the glossary references a capability possessed by a character that is explained on its card. If this is not powers, what is it referring to?

[thetigerking83]

I agree that it should cover powers aswell. When I got it I was like "I'm soooo playing this with Doomsday" then I look it up and it's not nearly as great as I thought.

[Harpua]

I agree that it should cover powers aswell. When I got it I was like "I'm soooo playing this with Doomsday" then I look it up and it's not nearly as great as I thought.

TalonMC is correct.

[RavenProject]

Hm... okay, guess I can chalk this up to an unfortunate case of using a defined word in an inappropriate context.

I maintain that because the definition of "powers" calls them "abilities," then they should be included. But based on the information provided, I can understand your approach to the topic.

If this is the case, however, we may need a new definition for "powers" to avoid such confusion.

-J

[Harpua]

Hm... okay, guess I can chalk this up to an unfortunate case of using a defined word in an inappropriate context.

I maintain that because the definition of "powers" calls them "abilities," then they should be included. But based on the information provided, I can understand your approach to the topic.

If this is the case, however, we may need a new definition for "powers" to avoid such confusion.

-J
I would agree to that.

[adamkomar]

The first sentence of the "powers" definition might begin to cause some confusion, but the rest of the definition clearly defines what "powers" are.

[Critical Hug!]

The first sentence of the "powers" definition might begin to cause some confusion, but the rest of the definition clearly defines what "powers" are.

TalonMC is correct.

[imaleximsweet]

TalonMC is correct.

critical hug and Harupa are both... correct

[Captain Krueger]

What would happen regarding Dissent ? The feat says it allows the character to counter TA as if they were powers ? Is Legendary Day still working then ?
And what happen if my opponent plays Disbanded ? Who get the upper hand then ? Will I keep my TA or not ?
I know, that's a lot of questions, but I've been out of business for a long time ;)

[Harpua]

What would happen regarding Dissent ? The feat says it allows the character to counter TA as if they were powers ? Is Legendary Day still working then ?
And what happen if my opponent plays Disbanded ? Who get the upper hand then ? Will I keep my TA or not ?
I know, that's a lot of questions, but I've been out of business for a long time ;)

I would say no to the Dissent because, as you said, they are countered as if they are powers. This was why the PC/Q TAs were not able to be countered with Dissent. (The addition of the TA being unable to be countered was added for a little more clarity.)

Disbanded doesn't counter anything, so there's no interaction at all.

[adamkomar]

When the Fantastic Four rules were released, wasn't there a ruling that said "abilities" and "team abilities" were two different things and that "team abilities" didn't apply to effects that interacted with "abilities"? I really wish I could remember the situation that was involved in that so I could look it up.

It may have had to do with Outwit since Outwit says you can counter an ability and you can't counter team abilities with standard Outwit.

[normalview]

When the Fantastic Four rules were released, wasn't there a ruling that said "abilities" and "team abilities" were two different things and that "team abilities" didn't apply to effects that interacted with "abilities"? I really wish I could remember the situation that was involved in that so I could look it up.

It may have had to do with Outwit since Outwit says you can counter an ability and you can't counter team abilities with standard Outwit.

Maybe there was. It sounds familiar.

Doesn't matter now, though, since team abilities are an ability (per the rules) and the only reason Outwit can't be used on them is because of the specific exception in the Outwit description.

FF rules, page 16:

ABILITIES
Abilities are special capabilities a character possesses, regardless of how its combat dial is turned during a game. There are three types of abilities: combat abilities, team abilities, and special abilities. Combat abilities and team abilities are indicated by symbols printed on a character’s base, while special abilities are typically indicated on a character’s character card. Powers and other game effects might sometimes grant abilities to a character. All abilities are optional unless “non-optional” appears in their...

And from the PAC:

OUTWIT Once during your turn (but not during another action), as a free action this character counters a power or an ability (other than a team ability) possessed by a single target opposing character. Treat the target as if it does not have the countered power or ability, which remains countered until...

[adamkomar]

Tou. Che.

[spideyguy51]

What is an example of a special ability? Are those the white boxed powers?

[normalview]

What is an example of a special ability? Are those the white boxed powers?

All special abilities (for the moment, I suppose) are listed on pages 17 and 18 of the FF rules.

They include Carry, Capture, and Multi-Attack.


By 'white boxed powers' I think you are referring to all the abilities on pages 16-18. The first several (Flight through Colossal Size) are combat abilities, not special abilities.

[spideyguy51]

All special abilities (for the moment, I suppose) are listed on pages 17 and 18 of the FF rules.

They include Carry, Capture, and Multi-Attack.


By 'white boxed powers' I think you are referring to all the abilities on pages 16-18. The first several (Flight through Colossal Size) are combat abilities, not special abilities.

No I meant like the white box around elektra's 8 movement. Is that an ability or a power?

[nbperp]

No I meant like the white box around elektra's 8 movement. Is that an ability or a power?

That is a power. It is a "special power".

[Maraud]

No I meant like the white box around elektra's 8 movement. Is that an ability or a power?

its a special power.

[spideyguy51]

That is a power. It is a "special power".

Okay, Thanks. So what exactly benefits from the Legendary Day feat Card?

[Maraud]

Okay, Thanks. So what exactly benefits from the Legendary Day feat Card?

Flight
Carry
M&A
INDOM
GIANT STRIDE
SHARPSHOOTER
DUO ATTACK

i may be forgetting one or two but that about most of them

[normalview]

Flight
Carry
M&A
INDOM
GIANT STRIDE
SHARPSHOOTER
DUO ATTACK

i may be forgetting one or two but that about most of them

Since it says that abilities can't be countered, and never specifies 'combat' or otherwise, ALL abilities can't be countered.

So anything mentioned on pages 16-18 of the FF rules (including team abilities if someone happens to be using Dissent).

[Thunderclese]

I figured it was so people couldn't outwit the Indomitable defense. Although I guess if that were the case, the characters would just use the Willpower granted by the BFC anyway...

Nevermind.

[Hero_guy]

There is already a way to keep your powers from being outwitted. It does cost 25pts though, but your opponent doesn't get a chance to use it. With Legendary Day, its free, but its a double edged sword. If you opponent happens to build a team with duos, indomitables, giants and transporters, they benefit just as much as you do. This along with fortitude would make a single character completely un-outwittable...virtual Power Cosmic/ Quintessence.

[Maraud]

There is already a way to keep your powers from being outwitted. It does cost 25pts though, but your opponent doesn't get a chance to use it. With Legendary Day, its free, but its a double edged sword. If you opponent happens to build a team with duos, indomitables, giants and transporters, they benefit just as much as you do. This along with fortitude would make a single character completely un-outwittable...virtual Power Cosmic/ Quintessence.

other than fort only protects powers, so Ability's are up for grabs.
Q/PC only protects TA nd powers, so again Ability's are up for grabs.

so if you have a a team of Q/PC then play that BFC you would be immune to Outwit. Although giving the opponent willpower will hurt ya.

[as_bat]

Maybe there was. It sounds familiar.

Doesn't matter now, though, since team abilities are an ability (per the rules) and the only reason Outwit can't be used on them is because of the specific exception in the Outwit description.

FF rules, page 16:

ABILITIES
Abilities are special capabilities a character possesses, regardless of how its combat dial is turned during a game. There are three types of abilities: combat abilities, team abilities, and special abilities. Combat abilities and team abilities are indicated by symbols printed on a character’s base, while special abilities are typically indicated on a character’s character card. Powers and other game effects might sometimes grant abilities to a character. All abilities are optional unless “non-optional” appears in their...

And from the PAC:

OUTWIT Once during your turn (but not during another action), as a free action this character counters a power or an ability (other than a team ability) possessed by a single target opposing character. Treat the target as if it does not have the countered power or ability, which remains countered until...

it should sound familiar, it was not for outwit, but it was clear that a tean ability is not an ability, as weird as it may sound... or at least they are not an ability as abilities should be treated... as I told you weird stuff.
I´m sure Harpua remembers why :D I cannot remember when it was this ruling applied. If I do I tell you :D

[GreenLantern73]

Flight
Carry
M&A
INDOM
GIANT STRIDE
SHARPSHOOTER
DUO ATTACK

i may be forgetting one or two but that about most of them

The 3 that you forgot are Giant Size, Colossal Size & Swim.

[Maraud]

The 3 that you forgot are Giant Size, Colossal Size & Swim.

other than Giant Size and Colossal size can not be outwitted as is.
But thanks on the swim part.