X-plosion colossus ?

[Darkskaven]

Well guys, I forgot to say it to you....

I have a picture from a french magazine (november 2002) of a Heroclix miniature which is..... Colossus !

I don't know if it's a LE's of any sort or just a preview for the Xplosion set, and if I can say it in this forum, but this one looks like a Veteran version with the X-men team ability and a points value of about 83.

Can't see any of his others powers or game scores, but I think some of you could enjoy this description.

The sculpt looks quite well, and colossus is wearing a traditionnal (I think, sorry I'm not an expert about comics) X-man outfit (the red and yellow one).

Can't show you the picture itself : my scanner is out of order at this time ! (and maybe WK doesn't want me to show it anyway).

With the rumored Colossus Heroclix in the Xplosion set (from UK) I think this could be another confirmation of the presence of this character in the set.

[Fogs]

UH OH. Now we NEED to see that pic!!! Go buy a new scanner already Blarararggghhh!!!!!

[Iceslinger]

I was one person late on a trade from someone trading his Heroclix collection that included a "#43 yellow ring Doc Sampson" that he said a friend "who is in the industry" gave him. He traded the lot for a "GW figure lot". He didn't even know it was from an unreleased set! Aaaargg!!

[Fogs]

GW figure lot?

[Iceslinger]

I wasn't sure but I think GW is the initials for the company that makes Lord of the Rings game figures. The guy wasn't really into Heroclix. I asked him if would give my e-mail to the guy he traded them to, but no reply. The name and number matched the spoiler list I saw for Xplosion (although that list isn't completely correct because the Unique spiderman wasn't on there).

[JayThor]

GW= Games Workshop. Warhammer, 40k, strategy games, very pricey.

[PMMJ]

Games Workshop is also in fact the biggest gaming company in the world. WK is second.

[Noman]

Hmmmmm yes.

I am still glad I bought all my GW WH40K stuff back when you didn't need a second mortgage - I gave up trying to build every WH40k army when I realised what I was effectivly paying for each game I played - they employ great designers and figure makers, but the cost is extreme.

...and they don't like competition.

TBTG for WizKids.

All the Best

Noman

(oh, and is their any EVIDENCE other than this post that any Xplosion figs have surfaced yet ??? )

[iamgeist]

a while back they showed pics from the toyfair, and on the side of one of the boxes, Colossus was there. Red and yellow suit. No idea about points or which version though. He is coming

[whiteperegrine]

I believe hasbro is larger than gw (games workshop)....and yes, gw is very pricey. to get in the door for an average 'small' force you will need to drop around $200-300.00.

in regards to our russian friend...I actually preferred his all red costume...oh well...I can always repaint. :)

[PMMJ]

Hasbro isn't just a gaming company, though.

And ever since WK came along with Heroclix, that's where more of my GW money has been flowing, so I say keep up the good work, guys.

[Manchine]

Have to Say GW is by far one of the best, and Complicated, games out there. I have 5 full armies. ANywhere from 6000 points to 3000. I enjoy hero klix much more. Most of my money that I use to spend on Warhammer is now going to Hero Klix.

[Thunderbolts]

Bah. GW has local support around these parts in the form of their actual shops. Wizkids evidently couldnt care less about spreading the good word around here, so they'll never win this place.

Shame too, cuz I wants to play more often! :(

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by Darkskaven
a Veteran version with the X-men team ability and a points value of about 83.
With Colossus Heroclix in the Xplosion set (from UK) I think this could be another confirmation of the presence of this character in the set.

yes Colossus will be in Xplosion.
VET only 83 points !!
I definately hope not! because that would almost certainly mean he has to be underpowered for those points.:rolleyes:

[WarHULK]

I agree, I think his vet. should be around 110-140 for him to be able to squeeze the powers and stats he really needs in there. 83 sounds like he'll be the same as Vet. Herc (same number of points even!) and that wouldn't be good. Vet. Herc is great and all but Colossus should have alot of Inv. instead of all that toughness. I'd like to see charge aswell, but I'm not going to hold my breath. if this is the true point cost of Colossus then he'll probably have a shorter dial than Vet. Herc to make up enough room for some Inv.

Is there any chance the Colossus you saw was a mod of IC Herc?

[JayThor]

Maybe the X team ability isn't as expensive as the Avenger ability, and his attack is lower. He still could have Inv. and SS

[Darkskaven]

Well the picture is not so large, but it really looks like 83 points.

For the version, it seems to be the veteran one (red circle) but the colors may not be true on the picture (so it can be a golden circle, but I'm not convinced by that last interpretation!).

I forgot to say : range is 0 (so I don't think WK gives some special rules for Fastball with Wolvie; except maybe if they give it TK).

And the base is dark : no AE .

Hope these precisions help.

[qbann4]

I WAS IN THIS GAME FOR 2 YEARS ....... ... ITS A GAME THAT HAS LIKE 1.000.000 DICE TO ROLL ......SUCH AS THE TRYNAD SO DONT GET IN THIS GAME ......I USE TO BE A FREAK ABOUT IT ITS A WASTE TOOO MUCH MONEY SAME WITH REGULAR WARHAMMER

[K26dp]

Mmmm... rolling dice. That's actually my favorite thing with Warhammer 40K. Having my Orks roll forty hits with forty dice... counting the dice down, watching the opponent wince in anticipation of the beatdown.

On the other hand, 40K and Warhammer Fantasy are incredibly expensive to get into. But it's a great game.

[Spiritual_Ex]

Great minis, pretty nifty background...but great game? I don't think so. The 1D6 mechanic is totaly lame. I got out after the implementation of the last rules set, there are so many better games out there, and many of them have minis rapidly approaching, if not equaling GW.

[Jean_genie]

Warhammer Fantasy used to be okay if you played Chaos, because you could make an army on the cheap .... well, relatively. Chaos troops were all about 2-4 times the point value of most everyone else, so you paid 25-50% of the money to make the army. But then the newest edition screwed that all to hell.

I just paint 30 bucks for a big Inquisitor model though. I'm never going to play the game, but it'll be a good (overpriced) challenge for me to paint. And nobody has a better 'bitz' selection than GW. But overall, they suck. Stuff's overpriced, the games take forever to play, and the whole company really isn't horribly great on customer/retailer service. If you just want to paint stuff (like me), Reaper is a million times better, and they've actually got a guy sculpting for them that is absolutely awesome .... the only time I've ever had a 'favourite miniature sculptor.' The guy's name is Werner Klocke.

Anyway. Colossus will be pretty fun to run. Somebody sugguested he go from Invulnerability to nothing, skipping Toughness. This is because he never really got 'soft', so much as he just lost the metal form. And maybe that'd make him cheaper? Maybe he Hulks up .... that seems to make figures cheaper too.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by Jean_genie


Anyway. Colossus will be pretty fun to run. Somebody sugguested he go from Invulnerability to nothing, skipping Toughness. This is because he never really got 'soft', so much as he just lost the metal form. And maybe that'd make him cheaper? Maybe he Hulks up .... that seems to make figures cheaper too.

that was me ( I believe).
Yes that would make him cheaper, but he also needs a few clicks of 4 damage and a fairly high AV 10,11 and charge that coupled with INV still isn't cheap .
I'd rather get an expensive fig which is good, then a cheap fig which is mediocre ("but fits in the team").

[JayThor]

I could see a 9 or 10 for attack value. Hercules has a 11, and he is a much better fighter. Colossus is my favorite X-man beside Wolverine, but he is only a par fighter.

[Mjolnir]

yeah Colossus was good, and strong.... but Hercules would have cleaned his clock if they'd ever fought.

[JayThor]

I could also see 4 damage, since Shehulk had it, but not charge.

[Jean_genie]

I'd give him one click of 4, only on his Vet version. I know you guys all want a big beast, but I never really saw him as a beast. Stat-wise, I'd put him above Blove, but below Herc. I'd give him maybe 4 clicks of Invulnerability, then about 3 more clicks with nothing. Maybe 1 with Toughness, but no more. I'd also give him Super Strength on all his 'big' clicks, and maybe one or two on his 'non-big' clicks. I really don't see him being able to compete with She-Hulk or Thing, and I think his point cost would be best in the 80-100 point range. But that's just me.

Not like it's worth arguing, since the figures are all finished and ready to ship already :)

[Manchine]

Some people here obviously dont know warhammer. Its by far the greatest strategy game yet. The D6 is perfectly fine in the game. Chaos still wastes pretty much everything if it came down to just pure fighting. But this is a game of strategy. Sure there are now a few minitures able to equal GW but not to GW's number. I play SKaven I litrally have 6,000 points in Skaven. Thats not even counting my minitures that are discontinued. I have literally 150 Models that are slaves, with spears, alone. Broken down into 5 units worth. I have more clanrats then that.

Well back to Colossus. Go here to check him out. This is what I pictured him as.



http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=243099#post243099

[Darkskaven]

Okay, we all know that GW's products are a bit expensive and that their old games (warhammer and 40.k) have prehistoric rules.

More recents miniatures games have better rules, better systems. But GW still has an impressive number of models available and their plastics models are really a pleasure for the modelists (it's sooo easy to convert plastic !).

When I fall into this kind of games, I don't have so many choice : GW or (near) nothing !

So I play GW games. And now that I've a lot of miniatures for these systems, I don't want to change for another game and buy (and paint, convert...) again another whole army !

Except for Heroclix ! :p Heroclix isn't the same : fewer models, fewer space needed to play, lesser time to run a game, and no models to paint (except for some little adjustements).

So I agree with people who critisize Gw games, but doesn't say that these games are non playable : it's just a different style of gaming than Heroclix.

And, Manchine : welcome to Skavenblight ! I'm (like my pseudo tell it) too a servant of the Horned Rat (don't know how many points, perhaps 8000pts or more.....).

[Spiritual_Ex]

Agreed, the huge plus (despite the fact that I don't play their games anymore) is that alot of people have been sucked into them, making it a game that isn't hard to find players for.

THe plastics they've come out with in the last few years are fairly nice for a OK price, I've considered using some for RPG purposes (like the zombies or skeletons).

My problem with the D6 is that I don't feel it gives enough variability in the units represented on the board. I mean you either have a Toughness 3 (as a punie human), or toughness 4 (as an Orc or Superhuman). I'd rather see a larger spectrum of variability between units, so indroducing a D10 or D20 system in my opinion would facilitate this. My largest pet peeve is that often he who wins initiative (especially if there isn't alot of terrain), can often win the game (WH 40K anyways). I'd much rather see players go back and forth moving units, those players having more units would move at a 2:1 or 3:1 (or whaterver) ratio. Not sure if any of you ever played Chronopia, or Warzone, but that is how it worked, and it made the game so much more fun. Nothing as disappointing as playing a 5000 point force you've put your heart and soul into painting, when the other guys "silver army" rolls a high initiative and proceeds to wipe 2/3 of your army off the map.

I dunno, just my 2 bits again.

On Collosus, I'd like to see him in Herc's range, no higher, mainly because I want my X-men to be cheap, I don't want to waste any actions ever, and a 80-90 point Collosus would really fit in with the X-men nicely.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by Spiritual_Ex
I dunno, just my 2 bits again.

On Collosus, I'd like to see him in Herc's range, no higher, mainly because I want my X-men to be cheap, I don't want to waste any actions ever, and a 80-90 point Collosus would really fit in with the X-men nicely.

All X-men under 100 points !?
Yes It would fit in the team spirit, but I don't want my X-men shafted because whatever the reasons/powers they MUST be under 100 points !

I want a playable Colossus, he's a great fighter ! he has been with the X-men for several years.
anyone stating he's just a normal "thug" (9 AV) who happens to be invincible (INV) has never read the X-men !!:mad:

Well WK has already dropped the ball on 2 mayor characters: Magneto and Nightcrawler (making him unique!!).
that's already 2 strikes against the X-men.


the Juggernaut isn't the greatest fighter, that's the one fig who just counts on his INV and strenght to get him through all fights !

[JayThor]

I started reading X-men in 1981. Colossus is one of my favorite X-men. Having stated that, he is not in Thor, Juggernaut, or Hulk's league. Just because Shehulk is too powerful, they just want strong females, Colossus should be around Hercules dial, with lower attack values, but Inv.

[Pyroxian]

He should have Telekinesis - Fastball Special!!!

[Drashia]

although TK seems like a suitable fastball special... let's face facts... the recipient and launchee usually take damage...

[Drashia]

although TK seems like a suitable fastball special... let's face facts... the recipient and launchee usually take damage...

btw, Nightcrawler is ungodly for his price... he certainly didn't get shafted

[Spiritual_Ex]

I don't see Collosus being any better than Herc is all. I'm not a fanboy, I like him, but I want him to be a good, not over-priced figure. No more than 100 points for a Vet in my mind, Like Herc, but with Invulnerability, a mundane starting click, lower attack, and a slightly shallower dial. Hey, its just my opinion.

On all the X-men being under 100 points. Now youre putting words into my mouth. I fully expect Storm to be over that make, she is a utility character and will have a variaty of powers that may well push her over that mark (possibly not, either way would be fine). Lets not even talk about the Phoenix, that should be a pricey piece of kit.

While I'm speculating.

I want Beast coming in around 70 points. Decent move, Decent attack, Leap/Clib, Perplex or Outwit for a couple clicks, 3 starting damage.

Iceman around 70 points. Barrier, Incapacitate, LEap/Climb, 3 starting damage. (He could potentially be alot more powerfull, and that wouldn't bother me, especiall if his rookie was 35-40 points, his Exp was 70 points, and his Vet was over 100).

Gambit around 60 points. High move, multiple ranged attacks, Energy Explosion, low damage (1) but with RCE.

Shadowcat around 40 points. Phasing, Supersenses

Angel around 35 points. Flying, Charge, 10-12 move, 2 damage.

Just my thoughts, and if you look from my perspective, you'll see that what I want for Collosus would still make him nearly the most powerfull of X-men. I just view the X-men as being relatively weak in perspective, I know alot of you would have all the characters I've listed at double the points I'd like and with twice as many powers, that's fine, but at least I'm not the one who will be disappointed when Xplosion is released. I like to use the X-men, but right now they arn't the greatest of teasm, the above characters would really make them playable to the extreme.

[Manchine]

Here's Colossus in my view. Just a little over a 100 points.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27093

[Spiritual_Ex]

That looks ok to me, although I think 1 Click of charge would be enough. And I would drop the last click or two of toughness, and possible have his damage drop a little sooner. BUt I think that's fairly accurate. I wouldn't want to see him any more expensive than that.

[DJBot]

I hope they make Experienced Collossus a member of the Brotherhood to reflect his time as a member of the Acolytes, that would rock!

[JayThor]

I think it was too short of a time to warrant a spot on Exp. I'm looking very forward to him in the 80-point range. It will allow more Xmen in 200-300 point games. The Avengers that I like are all over 100+ and hard to field together. The Xmen have been lacking a good brick, though I like Rogue, she isn't doing more than 3 damage, ever. Colossus, with SuperStrength, will do 5-6.

[whiteperegrine]

...been thinking a little on the colossus clix and to be honest I boiled it down to most basic form....for me the following would work and makes me happy.

1.) no 'human/mundane' first click...he never went to battle unarmored...

2.)invuln the entire dial

3.)damage at 4 for the first click if not the first 2-3 with super strength for the first half of the dial...I expect a ton of resistance on this one...if lowered to 3 then it should stay that way for most of the dial

4.)no charge...he was a defensive fighter

5.)make his dial about 6-7 deep

6.)attack rating should not be above 10

7.)no 'human/mundane' first click...he never went to battle unarmored.


...well...those are my thoughts and while I am sure many will not agree with them I think they would work to represent his abilities overall.
colossus was my favorite x-man for the record...probably the reasoning behind the high end damage...heh

[JayThor]

That looks good to me!

[Spideygoalie]

Hey guys,

As a new member this is my first post. I do have official confirmation from a Marvel insider that Colossus is going to be in Xplosion! As my second favorite character of all time (next to a certain Webslinger) I am personally stoked. I do have to say, that if Colossus isn't on par with at least the Veteran Thing's totals I would be severly disappointed. the Beast Veteran looks like it will be in the 80's for pete's sake!

By the way, when are we going to get a Marvel character with IMPERVIOUS!!!!

[PMMJ]

Originally posted by Spideygoalie
As a new member this is my first post. I do have official confirmation from a Marvel insider that Colossus is going to be in Xplosion!

Welcome to the groups, but that's not really news. Colossus was spotted on the side of the booster pack at the UK ToyFair.

For other figures confirmed in Xplosion, check out this link:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24900

[whiteperegrine]

Originally posted by Spideygoalie
Hey guys,

As a new member this is my first post. I do have official confirmation from a Marvel insider that Colossus is going to be in Xplosion! As my second favorite character of all time (next to a certain Webslinger) I am personally stoked. I do have to say, that if Colossus isn't on par with at least the Veteran Thing's totals I would be severly disappointed. the Beast Veteran looks like it will be in the 80's for pete's sake!

welcome to hcrealms. :)

I actually hope that colossus is more in the range of herc in terms of cost. one of the reasons being that he is also one of my favorites in the marvel universe (second to Nova<rich rider>) and I will more than likely be using him quite a bit...this is assuming he is not outrageously priced and his dial is decent...otherwise it's conversion time. ;)

By the way, when are we going to get a Marvel character with IMPERVIOUS!!!!
more than likely it will eventually show up....hopefully not on colossus though. invuln works for him just fine, imo.

[WarHULK]

We'll hopefully never see Marvel with Impervious. There's way too many ways around it. Imp. seems really good when you read about it but as soon as you see all it's weaknesses I'd much rather stick with Inv. which is a much more dependable ability.

[BatMan1]

collosus is in xplosion.

[Spideygoalie]

Hey Warhulk,

What weaknesses are you referring to, in regards to Impervious?

Isn't it the same as Invulnerability with the ability to roll for a complete miss?( With a five or six)

Any info on that would be geatly appreciated!

Thanx,


Spidey

[WarHULK]

any attack that does not directly target Impervious hits without and defense. Energy Explosion splash, poison, and pulsewave attacks all hit them without the roll or the -2 damage. That is why I don't like Impervious. At first it seems great but as you can see it's got quite afew ways of getting around it. Inv. blocks all those types of damage. The only damage Inv. and Toughness don't block are pushing and MC damage (IE Mojo has toughness but it doesn't let him MC someone over 100 pts without taking damage).

[Spideygoalie]

Thanx Warhulk,

Every weekend I'm in a mixed tournament (Marvel, DC and Mage Knight). Each player represents one faction with minor modifications.

On the Powers/Abilities Card does it state that non-direct attacks are not affected by Impervious?


Thanx again,


Spidey

[WarHULK]

on the PAC it says;

"When this character is the target of a successful attack (either close or ranged combat) roll 1 six-sided dice (edit: though it should be "die" since it's only one). On a result of 5 or 6, the attack misses completely and the character takes no damage. On a result of 1 to 4, the attack hits, but reduce the damage by two."

On the Wizkids "Official DC Heroclix Rulings and Clarifications" page it says this;

"Impervious has no effect on knockback damage generated by a Force Blast, “splash” damage generated by an Energy Explosion attack, or Poison damage. In none of these cases is the Impervious figure the target of an attack."

This, of course, does not have Pulsewave listed, but since Pulsewave has not yet made its way over to DC it is of no concern on the official PAC.

But, because I'm so prepared, here is what the "Official Marvel Heroclix Rulings and Clarifications" say about Pulsewave in reference to this;

"Pulse Wave does not target characters. The Skrull team ability does not work against Pulse Wave.
When a only a single figure is in range of a Pulse Wave, that figure is the target, and that target may use Impervious or Super Senses to dodge it/reduce the damage. The Skrull team ability still will not work, as Pulse Wave doesn’t distinguish between friendly and opposing figures."

So aslong as there are two or more people being targeted by Pulsewave then it will also pass through Impervious. When you combind pulsewave and/or Energy Explosion with Enhancement or the SHIELD team ability it has quite a devistating effect on Impervious figures...

[Spideygoalie]

Warhulk...

Thank you again for the clarification; that will make a large difference in the army building strategies and subsequent battles that will take place and my future tournament strategies.


Spidey

[WarHULK]

No problem, I'm always up for helping HC fans in need.

[colossusfreak1]

I think That Colossus should be a unique. Nightcrawler was cause he was so powerful. I think that colossus should have charge, inv.
super strength, and and a whole lot of clixs of life. I bet he's gonna be a regular figure but i hope not. I also hope that they make a pretty cool Shadow Cat, that would be awesome. any one know anything about her??

[ccgtrader_78]

Colossus is a R/E/V in X-Plosion ..... and Im pretty sure he is #'s 79-81

[Ian_Cormack]

ummm, i think colossus shouldn't be unique. I like too think it would be easier to get a good colossus if he was more availible

[sluggo]

I think Colossuses vet. stats should be about the same as Things Experiences stats.

Also I think at least one version of Colossus should be on the Brotherhood, but I could argue for both the Experienced and Vet. versions. What version do you think would be best on the Brotherhood?

[JayThor]

None. The character was around for nearly 30 years as an X-man and an Acolyte (not a Brotherhood member) for only a few months. All 3 should be X-men.

[sluggo]

How long was Beast a Defender compared to an X-Man? And he was an Acolyte (no Acolyte team in the game, so the Brotherhood is the best team to go with) for more then a couple months.

[colossusfreak1]

No Brotherhood X-men only. please no brotherhood the brotherhood and the acolytes are nothing alike other than magneto. Colossus should only be an X-men.

[sluggo]

"please no brotherhood the brotherhood and the acolytes are nothing alike other than magneto" - In the game sometimes you have to pick the team thats best. I dont' remember Boom Boom or Wolfsbane ever being X-Men but they are both on (or mostly likly going to be) on the X-Men team. It first for Colossus

[colossusfreak1]

Wolfsbane was on a team that branched of the X-men, Excalibur, NightCrawler and Colossus were on that team to. So was shadowcat. Is she gunna be a HeroClix??

[sluggo]

"Wolfsbane was on a team that branched of the X-men, Excalibur, NightCrawler and Colossus were on that team to" - I know that but neither Wolfsbane or Boom Boom was ever on the X-Men (nightcrawler, Colossus and Shadowcat were).

Colossus was on the acolytes, which is kinda like a branching team of hte Brotherhood (both were formed by Magneto for almost the same purpose). Its the bst choice for that part of his life - he was also on the acolytes for longer then a couple months.

[CKent]

They should make a Unique Shadowcat with Lockheed on her shoulder so she can have ranged attack also(Lockheed's firebreath)... I think that fig would look awesome! Just a random thought...

:p

[DJBot]

Collossus should deffinetly have Brotherhood on Experienced, and i think its a good bet he will. Wizkids is all about mixing up the three levels a bit when possible to show a character changing and growing. Nothing is a greater example of this than when the peaceloving Peter Rasputin abandoned Xaviers principles and took up with Magneto's Acolytes. And yes he was a member for much longer than a few months, A little over two years of real time Collossus spent as an Acolyte. He joined in Uncanny #304 and didn't hook up with Xaviers fold again until Uncanny #325 (add in the 4 months of AOA and thats 25 months I beleive) so it was a large portion of time that deserves to be represented IMHO....

[JayThor]

That doesn't mean he was a member for 25 months. AOA aside, and actual appearances with the Acolytes, we are talking a couple months.
Sluggo- Beast was a member of the Defenders (a team actually represented in HC) for several years. Colossus should be X-men. Why do a "close enough" team like Brotherhood, when he has been an X-man for so long?

[sluggo]

DJBot - The question I orginal asked was what version of Colossu should be on the Brotherhood. I can see where you are coming from because he did join the X-Men again after he was on the Acolytes however he wasn't ont he X-Men very long after he came back - long enough to warrent another experienc level? Like I said, I can it being justified for both versions.

"Colossus should be X-men. Why do a "close enough" team like Brotherhood, when he has been an X-man for so long?" - Same question for Wolfsbane and Boom Boom - why but them on a close enough team like X-Men? And They should put Colossus on a "close enough" team because, as DJbot pointed out, it was a HUGE deal wen he left the X-Men. It wasn't one of the times someone turns on their team for one or two issues. Colossus totally rejected the ideals he'd lived his life by. It should be represented. And just because the Acolytes aren't in the books for a while doesn't mean the team isn't together. Colossus was on the acolytes for quite a while

[autoconx]

i can see all 3 versions being on the x men team with a future possibility of a unique with a point range between his veteran and experienced versions with the brotherhood symbol,...or who knows by that time,....an acolites symbol ?;)

[autoconx]

look at me spelling acolytes wrong....it was early i just got up gimme a break :o

[HeroComplex]

Originally posted by JayThor
None. The character was around for nearly 30 years as an X-man and an Acolyte (not a Brotherhood member) for only a few months. All 3 should be X-men.

Later that thread...
That doesn't mean he was a member for 25 months. AOA aside, and actual appearances with the Acolytes, we are talking a couple months.If you're saying that he was around for 30 years as an X-Man, then you're already talking about real-time and the 2+ years he was on the Acolytes is the number you're left with. If you make the case that he was only a member of the Acolytes for a few months in comic-book-time, then you can't use his 30 years---based on how much they've aged, you'll have to use a lot less.

[colossusfreak1]

I guess i see your points Wolfesbane was put on a close-enough team so why not Colossus. I guess we'll see. I like the shadowcat idea, but i still think Colossus should be uniuque only it just would be cool. Plus that way i can show my obession with him even more by owning him.

[Spiritual_Ex]

There isn't anything remotely cool about Nightcrawler being a Unique, it's lame. So why would it be cool to have Collosus (Just because he would be a unique does not equal him being more powerful as such, it only means there would be less variation in his points so he'd be less useful by being able to fit on fewer teams)? The power of a character makes no difference when wizkids determines who will and won't be a unique I'm sure (Look a Cyclops?). Although I'm sure popularity might have alot to do with it. Nightcrawler likely made tons of people buy tons of boosters looking for him, and I have little doubt that Green Goblin will do so in this set too.

If his Vet is over 100 points it will be a sin, he isn't the end all be all of Toughs, he should be at Hercs level so that he can be played effectively without dropping a huge chunk of points to field him (And charge? Come on, that's total fanboy junk, Invuln & SS are all he deserves). I know there will be tons of #####ing when this guy comes out, either about him being to low or too high a cost, but lets be realistic, like most of the X-men he is a cool character, but he isn't all that powerful in comparison to many others running around the Marvel world.

[JayThor]

Herocomplex- I meant real time for both examples. Peter was represented in X-men (and Excalibur- an X spinoff) for almost 30 years. The actual times seen of him with the Acolytes was only a few over several months. It doesn't warrant a team ability only related by Magneto being a member of both. That is like saying Bucky should be an Avenger just because he teamed with Captain America.
Sluggo- Colossus dying was a big deal, too. Do you want a dead Colossus figure? lol Comparing Wolfsbane, who has been a member of several X-teams, getting Xmen team ability, to Colossus being X-men doesn't make sense. There is no New Mutant team ability, or X Factor team ability, or Excaliber team ability. Since the closest related was Xmen, she got it. The closest for Colossus is XMEN, and that is what he should have.

[sluggo]

"The actual times seen of him with the Acolytes was only a few over several months" - If you go by "comci time" then Magneto wasn't with the X-Men very long either, but he still got an X-Men team ability. (I was very young at the time, but from what I heard its basically the same thing).

Its not an X-teams ability, its an X-Men ability and Wolfsbane and Boom Boom were never X-Men. I was more using that example to explain why he would be on the Brotherhood when he was on the acoylites. "Do you want a dead Colossus figure?" - Kinda hard to do that, but you can put him on the Brotherhood, which was a very important event when it happened. He should be on the Brotherhood on his Experienced or Vet. versions.

[colossusfreak1]

sorry geez i was just sayin that it would make it cooler to own if you had a unique. I had an older and more expireinced player than me explain why NightCrawler was unique and he said it had to do with power. And i understand the Cyclops thing. I dont think colossus should have charge because he's a big guy. But then again She-hulk is a big strong person and has charge. And I am not a fan-boy just a big fan of Colossus and I happen to be male.

[Jean_genie]

Eh. You guys are both right and wrong. I'd say Colossus should be straight X-Men all the way through, but possibly with a Unique Brotherhood. Magneto should have been REV Brotherhood too, possibly with a U X-Men, since I believe each team change only lasted 8 or 10 issues, or something like that. To me, that's not enough to merit it. Beast however, was on both the Avengers and the Defenders for a number of years, so he might deserve different teams on his REV versions. You can tell me that Colossus should get a different team because Magneto got it, but I'd still say Magneto shouldn't have gotten the X-team.

Which brings us to the discussion of the X-team. The X-Men team is a collection of all the other X-teams that have been or that are. That's because basically, they're all the same: X-Men knockoffs that have lamer characters. With the exception of Excaliber, and the Original X-Factor of course. The same is true of the Brotherhood, Minions on Doom, or Masters of Evil; it's a collection of villians. To the best of my knowledge, Juggernaut was never part of the Brotherhood, even though he was an X-Men villian. And I KNOW that Kang wasn't part of Masters of Evil, so much as he was just an Avengers villian. It's just a lumping-together, to make things simpler. As a side note, Ultron should be MoE, but only the rookie version.

[sluggo]

"You can tell me that Colossus should get a different team because Magneto got it, but I'd still say Magneto shouldn't have gotten the X-team." - But he still got it, therefore Colossus should

"The X-Men team is a collection of all the other X-teams that have been or that are" - AGAIN, I'm not saying there should be X-Factor, X-Force etc... teams. Earlier someone told me that Colossus was an acoylite, not a member of hte Brotherhood (which is true). BUT The Acoylites are to the Brotherhood what X-Force is to X-Men - a branching team which has a little tie to the "base" team. Both teams were created by Magneto to be his "soliders". Since there is no Acoylite team in the game, and since people like Wolfsbane and Boom Boom are and will be on the X-Men, Colossus should be on the Brotherhood.

[Jean_genie]

I totally agree with your second argument, Sluggo. But the thing is that your second argument is totally reliant on the first one, which I still think is wrong.

You can't always look back at things and say "If they did that for X, then they should do it for Y as well." The reason for this is because sometimes, X never should have happened. A perfect example: what if they make a Gladiator figure? Gladiator the Kree guy, not the Daredevil villian. Gladiator was very powerful, but his power started to wane as soon as he lost his self-confidence. In other words, he was an uber-powerful guy, but his power often dropped like a rock. If Gladiator was made, he should theoretically be just like Firelord. After all, if Firelord got that treatment, so should Gladiator. This is when most people would chime in and say "But Firelord should never have been like that!" And that's what I'm saying .... sometimes mistakes are made, and you've just got to keep plodding on, rather than trying to make those misatkes the norm.

But this is all a moot point, because I'm quite sure Exp Colossus WILL be Brotherhood. That and because we're not exactly arguing something important here.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by DJBot
Collossus should deffinetly have Brotherhood on Experienced, and i think its a good bet he will. Wizkids is all about mixing up the three levels a bit when possible to show a character changing and growing. Nothing is a greater example of this than when the peaceloving Peter Rasputin abandoned Xaviers principles and took up with Magneto's Acolytes....
it was a large portion of time that deserves to be represented IMHO....

Colossus didn't "just" abandon Xavier's principles (he still had them), but all it had done for him was a dead brother and sister (and troubles in Russia for him).
Magneto simply said; is it worth defending humanity and then be chewed out by the people you protect ?(or something) for him that rung true.

yes it was a big turning point for him (so would be justfied in having an Exp. version of brotherhood or no affiliation).

[balagonn]

I know some of you seem to think Hercules could beat up Colossus, but I do belive you are quite mistaken. The way I see Colossus' dial is starting with perhaps 2 clicks of damage and toughness, with slightly below average attack and defense values. Then, 2 or 3 clicks in, hulking up with high attack, very high defense, Inv, SS, and 4 clicks of damage. From then on in, think Unique Juggernaut. On his last click perhaps a point of regeneration too... and I'm betting the veteran version will be somewhere near 120 points.

[colossusfreak1]

Well I agree expierianced Brotherhood. to see a blurry pic of colossus got to http://www.############/online/heroclix_xplosion.html

[colossusfreak1]

well thats weird it should be ####### between the www. and the.com

[colossusfreak1]

Its not working dang. well look at this back words and type that (asunoci) ok type that back words after the triple W

[JayThor]

I still say all three versions should be Xmen, but an Unaffiliated E or V version would lower his point cost without compromising his powers. To put him with a villian team is not the answer to his wanting to stop the senseless fighting. He often thought of leaving the X-men to return to his family in Russia throughout his career. Just because he chose to stop fighting the good fight for a time, does not make him a villian. This is shown by the team accepting him back without question. A villian would have been very suspect by thr rest of the team, old friend or not.

[Ghost_Rider]

Don't want to disappoint you, but he won't be that powerful. His first click is pretty much like the LE Fantastic Four. He's still playable, no question about that though.

And don't forget, Hercules is a half god.
Ghost

[balagonn]

...so what if Herc is half god? Thing could turn Herc inside out, Colossus should be able to too.

[admironheart]

Hercules was an old time Thor foe/ally.
Everytime the Olympians and Asgardians would go at it, then Herc would battle toe to toe with Thor.

He outclasses Thing or Collossus with ease.
Thing cannot outfight the Hulk.
Hercules and Thor can go toe to toe with the Hulk.

Even Wonderman is no match for Hercules...not because he is any weaker...just that hercules has the utmost confidence, never tires due to his godhood, has been fighting for over 2 thousand years and is just an expert brawler that only goldilocks and Hulk can compare.
Younger collosus is much like Namor or Iron man in stregnth. As he gets older they surmise he may equal the Thing or even Wonderman. Most of the role playing games or Marvel indexes has collosus way down on the scale compared to Hercules, Wonderman or Thor and Hulk.

Then ranks in the Thing and Iron man and titania for shear stregnth {Shell head has other things going for him too!!}
And finally She- Hulk, Warbird, Collosus, and others fall in. They made she hulk waaaay to tough in her V version. She is supposed to only lift 50 tons...that is half of the hulk or Hercules and way lower that most of the other heavy hitters.

Vet Collosus could be up there around the Thing, but hercules is a steal at his points but is not a true representation of what he has done in comics
wes

[Jadehorde]

Originally posted by JayThor
I still say all three versions should be Xmen, but an Unaffiliated E or V version would lower his point cost without compromising his powers. To put him with a villian team is not the answer to his wanting to stop the senseless fighting. He often thought of leaving the X-men to return to his family in Russia throughout his career. Just because he chose to stop fighting the good fight for a time, does not make him a villian. This is shown by the team accepting him back without question. A villian would have been very suspect by thr rest of the team, old friend or not.

Like Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, and Rogue...maybe Gambit too

[Jean_genie]

Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver weren't ever really "in" the Brotherhood though, so much as they just taged along because Dad lead it. As I recall, they bolted about an issue or two after they finally realized that "Hey, we're the bad guys!"

Gambit wasn't Brotherhood either, so much as he was basically a small-time thief. Like Storm. Rogue on the other hand, I know very little about.

[WarHULK]

Yea, Gambit was a small time thief and he also worked for Mr. Sinister and did LOTS of bad things for him... that's kinda why Rogue and he broke up awhile back. She touched him and found out all the bad things he had done and all that... of course, Rogue was a bad girl once herself... but whatever, apparently she has a double standard. So she conviced the Xmen to leave him in the Artic I believe... I think he was MIA until he reappeared in Xtreme Xmen in Australia... of course, now he and Rogue have no powers... which sucks... Xtreme Xmen has great art but they keep destroying all the characters... Psylocke dies, Storm almost loses all her abilities again, Rogue and Gambit both lose their powers... oh yea, and Beast gets changed into the feline beast he is now by Sage "evolving" him... bah...

[JayThor]

As to SW, Quicksilver and Rogue, they started on the wrong side because of bad guidance, then changed their evil ways. Not a good comparison for Colossus. Guess its pointless to debate now, since we know he is Xmen on Exp.

[Jadehorde]

Originally posted by WarHULK
Yea, Gambit was a small time thief and he also worked for Mr. Sinister and did LOTS of bad things for him... that's kinda why Rogue and he broke up awhile back. She touched him and found out all the bad things he had done and all that... of course, Rogue was a bad girl once herself... but whatever, apparently she has a double standard. So she conviced the Xmen to leave him in the Artic I believe... I think he was MIA until he reappeared in Xtreme Xmen in Australia... of course, now he and Rogue have no powers... which sucks... Xtreme Xmen has great art but they keep destroying all the characters... Psylocke dies, Storm almost loses all her abilities again, Rogue and Gambit both lose their powers... oh yea, and Beast gets changed into the feline beast he is now by Sage "evolving" him... bah...

Yeah he was instrumental in the Mutant Massacre of the Morlocks... he was at the least an accomplice in genocide...I'd say the X-teams are very lenient to past transgressions.

[Jadehorde]

Originally posted by JayThor
None. The character was around for nearly 30 years as an X-man and an Acolyte (not a Brotherhood member) for only a few months. All 3 should be X-men.

Well, not to beat a dead horse but just thought of this...Ultron...he was Doom's slave, for what one maxi series? Yet for all the versions of Ultron (what is it now anyways)...Exp Ultron is Minion of Doom...and Sandman wasn't a good guy for all that long either...Or the diamond version of Emma Frost...I think making a character representative of a key time in their development...Rogue, Scarlet, Quick as villians...Magneto as Xmen..She-Hulk as FF...is pretty cool and a nod to the fans and the development of the character. Colossus' confusion and disillusion with Xavier's dream was great...a real turning point and added depth to the character that should be represented. You deny him the option of having been given an alternative view by not making him Brotherhood. His ultimate choice to return to Xavier makes Colossus' Vet Xmen team membership that muh more important because of the crisis of faith, as he reexamined his life and found Xavier's path to be the right one...

Basically, if you're never changing and just going in a rut, then choice in a lifestyle is always suspect. If given no other choices, where is the uniqueness of your life...by having choice and reaffirming your past, it makes it that much more relevant.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by admironheart
Hercules was an old time Thor foe/ally...

He outclasses Thing or Collossus with ease.
Thing cannot outfight the Hulk.
Hercules and Thor can go toe to toe with the Hulk.

..Most of the role playing games or Marvel indexes has collosus way down on the scale compared to Hercules, Wonderman or Thor and Hulk.

finally She- Hulk, Warbird, Collosus, and others fall in. They made she hulk waaaay to tough in her V version. She is supposed to only lift 50 tons...that is half of the hulk or Hercules and way lower that most of the other heavy hitters.

Vet Collosus could be up there around the Thing, but hercules is a steal at his points but is not a true representation of what he has done in comics
wes

RPG's ?!
well on the "scale" the Rookie version (before he was trained in combat and in the danger room for MANY years) Colossus was able to lift 75 tons (way outclasses She-hulk now doesn't it ?!).

Colossus was an integral part of the team (and pretty smart), so I fairly dislike how the designer did him.
It has already been established that an 8,9 AV is just too low for a SS bruiser (when he's healthy) even IF he's a Rookie (see Thing).
I don't know how the Vet version of Colossus looks like stats-wise, but as far as I've seen the others he could be the only 1 worth playing !

1) 15 !! defence :eek: is this thesame INV charater that most of the time shielded his teammates from serious damage dealing blasts ?? and got out unscathed !

2) 9 AV even on EXP. come on he's stronger then She-hulk and Doc.Samson (and better trained !!).

3) toughness ? better would've given him more INV clicks and then abruptely KO.
that's pretty true to his character.

4) first click of "normal" Colossus, OK I could live with that. But in gameplay terms it's still LAME !! especially on his EXP/VET.
Colossus knows better then walk into battle without his Inv. AND the prof would warn him beforehand !
his last clicks without the INV(and toughness) would've been better (or a middle click).

5) 2,3 clicks of charge are nice. But I would've gladly traded them for better defence and higher AV !!

6)I've been proven right in my assumption (IMHO) :( :
ALL X-men are made 100< ,even if it makes them weaker then they should have been stats-wise.

It's nice to be able to field a whole X-TEAM for not to many points, but I would have prefered a little more qaulity.

[Spideygoalie]

I cannot believe that no one has the V Colossus stats yet!!!!!!!!!

[whiteperegrine]

a little bored at the moment so..thought I would chime in on the debate of "who beats who".
Colossus/Thing/She-Hulk/Thor/Hercules
when I want to do a comparrison I refer back to the old Marvel RPG. the reason being that Marvel and TSR worked hand in hand to ensure that the characters were represented as true to character as possible given the constraints of the system. The RPG in turn worked out very well, imo, in representing the abilities of the indivisual characters...marvel has since left this system for their new "diceless" system which is utter crud, imo.

now...using the marvel rpg as our litmus paper for the characters we have the follow break down for strength and fighting ability:

Thor : Fighting: Unearthy, Strength: Unearthy
Hercules : Fighting: Unearthy, Strength: Unearthy
Thing : Fighting: Incredible, Strength: Monstrous
She-Hulk : Fighting: Remarkable, Strength: Monstrous
Colossus : Fighting: Excellent, Strength: Unearthy

using this little chart we see thor and herc are equals but top dogs due to their fighting ability. their fighting ability is due to their being gods and around for hundreds and hundreds of years...

next up we see thing and she-hulk. thing has been around longer and as such we see he is a better fighter than she-hulk who is actually 'relatively' new to the hero scene when compaired to some of the others.

colossus is at the bottom of the pile but this is not due to the lack of experience. it is more due to the fact that peter has always been more of a pacifist and the least combat orientated of all the xmen. most of the time he would play defence and suck up the shots for his team mates who would dispose of their opponent. on the other side we see colossus ranking up there with thor and herc in regards to strength...this works. colossus was given the 'one of the strongest physically' in the marvel universe treatment in the late 80's when they upped his over all size and reflected it in not only the rpg but the marvel universe books as well.

conversion time to heroclix becomes extremely difficult especially when it comes to damage output... personally I have no problem the way his dial has turned out for the most part. the only things I look at askance is his defence, length of invuln and that first 'click' of normal mode. I have yet to see his work up on Veteran Status but is he maintains the trend of the first two I will more than likely transplant his figure to another base....possibly the rookie juggernaut, but we'll wait and see on that point...

some random thoughts on the matter....

[JayThor]

Where did you get your stats from? In the TSR set, Colossus had an attack of Good (10) and Strength of Monstrous (75). He is very powerful, and his defense was higher than anyone else on your list with Amazing (50). I think that the human click stinks, but it does make him different from the other bricks, and will call for different strategies to use him.

[Manchine]

Originally posted by whiteperegrine

now...using the marvel rpg as our litmus paper for the characters we have the follow break down for strength and fighting ability:

Thor : Fighting: Unearthy, Strength: Unearthy
Hercules : Fighting: Unearthy, Strength: Unearthy
Thing : Fighting: Incredible, Strength: Monstrous
She-Hulk : Fighting: Remarkable, Strength: Monstrous
Colossus : Fighting: Excellent, Strength: Unearthy



Colossus only recently (recently meaning just before he died), gained Unearthly strength. I still have all my old Marvel RPG stuff. His fighting and Strength went up. In the RPG game originally he had Good (10) fighting and Monstrous (75) Strength. Years later they finally boosted up his fighting, in the game, to Excellent (20). Now on up to date websites they have increased his strength to Unearthly (100), due to Holocaust. He has always been the worse fighter of the heavy hitters. Everyone always says he's been trained in the Danger Room and in Martial Arts. Well so has Rouge and Iceman and Others that doesnt make them a good fighter. Wolvie is a good fighter and so is Cyclops actually.

Much like She-Hulk orignally had Am(50) strength before secret wars. But her taking THings place on the FF. She constantly used Things weights and Literally went to Monstrous (75) and is still increasing.

Just a little history lesson. :D ;) :p

[whiteperegrine]

www.classicmarvel.com
has a repository of all the updated stats as last produced under the TSR Marvel Superheroes, which is now out of print.

in regards to the defence...I wasn't looking at their 'body armor'. I was only compairing their strength and fighting. when looking at heroclix we have only four stats to work with which means many things are going to be combined when looking at a singular stat. in this case defence in heroclix is a combination of not only fighting ability but relative ability to shrug off blows...

[Manchine]

For defense I look to see how well characters Dodges. Colossus does not dodge. He always seems to be shot all the way until he reaches the guys shooting him then he pounds them. :D :p ;)

[whiteperegrine]

heh...agreed.
but as I mentioned, it also the ability to shrug off blows. this in would effectively be the f/x of the opposing character hitting him but not being able to penetrate is Armored Form to any degree....as such, peter is able to shrug off the blow.

[Manchine]

I really only think that for Juggernaut and Hulk. TO shrug off Blows.

Juggernaut cant be hurt really. Hulks armour gets stronger as he get madder.

Everyone else just dodges. That shows how well they literally just dogdes. Thats the only thing that shows their defense.

Showing how well there Armour is, is invulnerability and Toughness only.

[JayThor]

I see both points, but the number/rank is the dodge, the power (toughness, Inv, Imp) is the shrug off of damage in HC.

[whiteperegrine]

...can he shrug blows off to the extent of juggernaut...heavens no!...and hulk...well, he was just to dumb to jump outta the way and the 'stinging' just pissed him off... :)

like I keep saying...heroclix runs off of 4 stats...5 with range:
Move, Attack, Defence, Damage, Range
given this, we have limited ability to represent the characters in ever facet. if defence is purely the ability to avoid a blow, then hulk would have a horrible defence as would juggernaut. not because they can't dodge, but because they don't believe the target can hurt them. as such, they 'take the hit'.

[Manchine]

Those are the only 2 exceptions. Hulk and Juggy. IF that were the case Ultron would be 19. He actually is Invuln and Dodges. So that doesnt always hold true. About Defense being Ability to shrug off blows and Their armour.

Opps just looked at Vet Ultron ok so that may be the case.

:D ;) :p :D ;) :p

But Colussus isnt that invuln like those guys. He only thinks he is. Thats his problem.

[GluttonCreeper]

wolfsbane was a student at the xavier school and an auxillary x man along with the rest of the "New Mutants". these heroes were third stting x men. dont agree look at the costumes, see the x logo? Magneto was never an x man but rather the headmaster of xaviers school. its ridiculous to compare wolfsbane to collossus for team purposes.




what they need are a few more teams:
accolytes, hellfire club, thunderbolts, soviet super soldiers, alpha flight, X factor, night shift, innhumans, etc...

[JayThor]

I don't think any new teams are coming....John Leithesser said so in the Dear Whizkids section.

[whiteperegrine]

manchine-

heh...exactly. after checking on juggernaut and hulk we have the following for their veteran versions:
Hulk : Def = 17
Juggernaut : Def = 18
pretty good defence for guys who don't dodge, eh? given, they both only have these for one click but still pretty good. the only explination would have to be the "special effect" of them shrugging the blow completely off as I mentioned earlier.

ultron has an even higher defence due to him actually dodging, but he to is able to 'shrug off' many blows due to his adamantium body....

[Manchine]

Again those guys are invulnerable.

Colossus only thinks he is. Thats his problem. He can resist hit better then some, Thing, SHe Hulk, and others but he gets Invuln for longer periods also.

[whiteperegrine]

Originally posted by Manchine
But Colussus isnt that invuln like those guys. He only thinks he is. Thats his problem.

agreed. colossus is not invulnerable but there is very little in the marvel universe that is able to hurt him...using the marvel rpg as the litmus... when jumping over to heroclix we need to make him playable given the heroclix rules set. we had a couple of options...they could have upped his defence to help represent his armor or gave him invuln a little deeper down the dial.

imo..

on a side note...actually enjoy your posts...'not flamebait' and put forth with obvious intelligence... guess that means your 'clix' would have perplex ;)

[Manchine]

Ah but here's a side thought. Do they use Defense like how you say it or a completely different way which I have speculated on. How well their fighting is. If your a better fighter you get hit less times also. Look at Cap's. More food for thought.

On a side note
I like these discussion becuase it is just speculation. My ideas might be right but if you bounce your idea off someone else you can actually learn more.

PS Hercules being the exception!!! That one didnt make that much sense to any scale.

[whiteperegrine]

Originally posted by Manchine
Ah but here's a side thought. Do they use Defense like how you say it or a completely different way which I have speculated on. How well their fighting is. If your a better fighter you get hit less times also. Look at Cap's. More food for thought.

I think that the characters ability to fight is included when figuring out the defence of the figure.
defence = fighting ability/shrugability/luck
captain america has 17 defence, not bad. combined with energy deflection for his shield. this works ok. it shows his good fighting prowess combined with his shields ability to deflect blasts...bottom line is that I too, believe that the characters fighting is used for their defence but I think other factors are added in...

On a side note
I like these discussion becuase it is just speculation. My ideas might be right but if you bounce your idea off someone else you can actually learn more.
agreed. through discussion one learns...or at the very least, it opens ones eyes to new possibilities.

PS Hercules being the exception!!! That one didnt make that much sense to any scale.
agreed, again..
herc defy's all.... ;)

[admironheart]

I remember my first x-man issue.....

The Brood damaged collosus with some sort of acid attack to the chest and it was eating his armour and he could not continue to fight.

Then Deathbird threw a spear through his chest and almost killed him if not for Shi'ar tech...he would have died.

So I do not think that his 'steel' bod is as invulnerable as some.


Look at wasp...her defense is high...hard to hit her.
Some guys have high defense, like Ultron due to the adamantium,
Ultron NEVER dodges any attack...he likes the psychological effect that his foes cannot harm him.. plus he is a meglomaniac and feels invincible.

so High defence means many things

wes

[Spiritual_Ex]

Comments on his stats?

Not totaly out of line, he's more expensive than I wanted, but I'll just use a cheaper version to fit into my teams a little more nicely. Vet = 111 points, which is probably a happy medium between what some of us wanted, and it puts his dead in line with those of you who said they wanted his Vet at Exp Thing level (good call).

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by admironheart
I remember my first x-man issue.....

The Brood damaged collosus with some sort of acid attack to the chest and it was eating his armour and he could not continue to fight.

Then Deathbird threw a spear through his chest and almost killed him if not for Shi'ar tech...he would have died.

So I do not think that his 'steel' bod is as invulnerable as some.
wes

that's like saying: Thanos is invincible because I've only read the Infinty Gauntlet.

nothing personal, but there are like 2,3 times when Colossus was hurt (by Shi'ar technology mostly a.k.a. not of this world) in his whole time he was fighting and taking all the blows for the team.

Manchine..
Colossus is Invulnerable (not just in his mind), so at least a 16 defence on all his Inv. clicks would've been justified IMHO.

[sluggo]

Unless his vet. version is up and I just havn't seen it its just his Exp. version. His Vet. may very well have a def. or 16 or 17.

Also Colossus having inv. for his whole dail makes no sense. Everyone (unless I'm forgetting some clix) who has inv. in the game loses it and goes to toughness at some point. If theres any figures that should keep that power for their whole dials its Ultron and Superman. Colossus shouldn't have inv. for his whole dial. I think the dial they have up in the warriors section is pretty good for him.

[Jean_genie]

Colossus should have had like 5 clicks of Invulnerability, and a click with nothing at either end - that's my opinion.

[WarHULK]

Someone did Post the Vet. Colossus stats and 15 was the highest his defense went to...

[admironheart]

Hey,

despite what everyone feels about Juggernought...

lets look at him...Collosus could never handle juggy on his own.

So he should be a slightly weaker version of juggernought

I really don't know what juggy has, but...

wes

ps.: I stopped collecting comics in 1989...so the whole infinity guantlet was only hearsay to me. I don't care much for the past 10 years of comics...BUT I was very knowing on the 25+ years before that...I think that counts for something, since many if not most of the characters have a lot of there versions from those times. If your less than 25 years old you may not have the perspective on marvel characters unless your an extreme advid collector like I was back in the day of classic comics.

Never let recent events change the bigger picture of history.
;)

[sluggo]

WHen Colossus gains toughness its not susposed to show that his armor is getting weaker or anything, it shows he's getting tired and when he gets hit it hurts him more then when hes stronger. The same with every other inv. heavy hitter int he game.

Also, with Colossus's lower defense it means he'll be the easest "heavy hitter" to heal.

[Manchine]

Originally posted by the itsy bit


that's like saying: Thanos is invincible because I've only read the Infinty Gauntlet.

nothing personal, but there are like 2,3 times when Colossus was hurt (by Shi'ar technology mostly a.k.a. not of this world) in his whole time he was fighting and taking all the blows for the team.

Manchine..
Colossus is Invulnerable (not just in his mind), so at least a 16 defence on all his Inv. clicks would've been justified IMHO.

Umm no he is not invulnerable. He can easily be hurt, by big bruisers. You really dont know what your talking about there do you. Juggernaut is one of the few that is invulnerable, physical only. Even Hulk is not Invulnerable. So a 16 defense is not Justified. Wizkids seems to agree with me.

[colossusfreak1]

He handled Juggie just fine in the very old and out of date cartoon. Nerd time

[whiteperegrine]

Originally posted by Manchine
Umm no he is not invulnerable. He can easily be hurt, by big bruisers. You really dont know what your talking about there do you. Juggernaut is one of the few that is invulnerable, physical only. Even Hulk is not Invulnerable. So a 16 defense is not Justified. Wizkids seems to agree with me.

hulk is not invulnerable yet he has a 17 def on his Vet version.

I just would have liked to see Colossus have a bit higher Def...16 for a click or two would not have been outta line, imo. The other option would have been to give him another click or two of invuln and I would have been happy.

as it stands, I will more than likely just transplant peter to a rookie and veteran juggernaut dial...but I will try him out first. I just don't think that the figure, as it stands now, will survive all that long given the point cost to field it...

[Manchine]

Ahh but the more Hulk gets mad the harder it is to hurt The Hulk. Thats why his defense goes up.

I am sorry but Colossus only thinks he is invulnerable. Where he is not.

[CubeHead]

Originally posted by Manchine
Ahh but the more Hulk gets mad the harder it is to hurt The Hulk. Thats why his defense goes up.

I am sorry but Colossus only thinks he is invulnerable. Where he is not.
Invulnerability isn't an absolute in comics, it's a question of degree: Juggernaught is more invulnerable than Hulk who is in turn more invulnerable than Colossus who is more invulnerable than Rogue. All of them are "invulnerable" (to conventional weaponry/damage).

She Hulk was given a 17In, 16In, 16in, 15in while Colossus is at the very least as durable as her. So IMO, Peter got short changed here.

CubeHead

[whiteperegrine]

Originally posted by Manchine
Ahh but the more Hulk gets mad the harder it is to hurt The Hulk. Thats why his defense goes up.

I am sorry but Colossus only thinks he is invulnerable. Where he is not.
the hulk gets harder to hurt...but not harder to hit. given you opinion that defence is a reflection of dodging/fighting ability it seems that his defence is a bit high. my contention about defence being a conglomeration of multiple facets (fighting/shrugability/etc) makes sense for his high defence. if it was based solely on fighting/dodge I would rate the hulk around a 15 as he does not dodge shots and just suck 'em up...

[JayThor]

Colossus is X-men through and through! (R/E/V) nuff said.

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by sluggo
WHen Colossus gains toughness its not susposed to show that his armor is getting weaker or anything, it shows he's getting tired and when he gets hit it hurts him more then when hes stronger. The same with every other inv. heavy hitter int he game.

Also, with Colossus's lower defense it means he'll be the easest "heavy hitter" to heal.

Colossus doesn't get tired nor does he need food or air when he's in his steel form.
So nope, he doesn't get fatigued, he has invulnerability or he has nothing (yes his defence would drop, but it's already low with 15!).
every bruiser should be different so going the standard Inv.>tou. is not the way for Colossus.
healing bruisers: bruisers are ment to last in a fight not going back and forth to healers in my opinion !

Admironheart and Manchine..

yes Colossus can be hit( heck he even blocks ALL the blows for the team) and it would "hurt" him (just not much).
so he qualifies for Inv. ,but heavier hitters could damage him.
I ment to say Colossus requires more Inv. a little less then Juggernaut (and Chucky got shafted) but more then other bruisers just with a lower defence !

the Thing is I was saying he's invulnerable and you were saying but he can be hurt, well all figs in Heroclix can be hurt !
so we're both right !;)
It's just that Nothing on the (Marvel) Earth could really hurt him badly enough( Deathbird is not of Marvel Earth she's from the Shi'ar homeworld) except for Adamantium rammed into him with enormous strenght (which would by the way severely cripple Thor and the likes too ;) ).

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by Manchine


Umm no he is not invulnerable. He can easily be hurt, by big bruisers. You really dont know what your talking about there do you. Juggernaut is one of the few that is invulnerable, physical only. Even Hulk is not Invulnerable. So a 16 defense is not Justified. Wizkids seems to agree with me.

Juggernaut loses out in any fight against another opponent with Inv.
Juggernaut is a bully that only picks on weaker figs.

Wizkids seems to agree with me.

[Red Gambit]

On the foot icon- Rookie colossus should have no speedy powers. Experienced neither. Perhaps Veteran should have charge. Colossus charged constantly in the later comics. He is very She-Hulk in fighting style, except for the leaping. He's not fast enough to flurry either. His movement should be better than most strong guys - he wasn't so huge that he couldn't move fast. starting off at 6, 7, 8 for r/e/v respectively. Dropping by 1 for a few clicks and then staying lower.
On the fist icon -
Rookie colossus and Experienced should have Super-strength almost all the way through. Check this out - Veteran Colossus developed fastball special AS A TECHNIQUE. This should be represented by Telekinesis. That would be Colossus's real point Value! He can throw objects and people farther than other tough guys. He's really like a giant metal sling. Other than that nothing else.
I will admit that starting out Colossus wasn't the best fighter. 8 or 9 for rookie, 9 or 10 for experienced, and 10 or 11 for Veteran. Pretty average well trained Superhero. As he gets better, his attack values should stay consistent for his price.
For defense icon, Colossus should be IMPERVIOUS. I'd say in all versions. Just for the first click of his rookie, maybe two clicks of his experienced, and three of his veteran (maybe still just 2 if he gets telekinesis - see below). Colossus was really hard to hit through. Of course it is my opinion that Ultron should have been Impervious, but that robot's 18 defense at least covers for that. Colossus should have ####py defense - 16 at most max on the vet, just 14 or so on the rookie versions. His defense should lower slowly. He's easy for those with good accuracy to wail on or shoot. Just hard to take out.
Wolverine's claws actually couldn't s####e through him in the regular Marvel Universe! He was too dense. After Impervious I think that he should drop down to Invulnerable. It's armor, not just some tough skinned guy like Wolverine, Sabretooth, She-Hulk, Mr Hyde, Thing, Hulk, Thor, or others who go orange. Out of all the bruisers, his armor is the strongest. Even more than Juggernaut. But he should have just as many clicks as a Red Wolverine or so. If you can get through that armor, he's not much more than a normal hulky dude. I think that on the last click that he should have WILLPOWER. Colossus was certainly one of the most strong minded and stubborn fighters. He wasn't an OUTWIT or MASTERMIND type.
For damage - definitely 4 value to start out with in veteran. Only 3 in the rookie and 4 too in the experienced. It should drop by one right away in Veteran and experienced. Then stay at three for a long time in those versions, until his last two clicks, where it should hit 2. Maybe only his last click without 3 in Vet. Colossus was a heavy hitter! Rookie should go 3/3/3/2/2/1.
Rookie should be X-Men, Experienced Brotherhood, and Veteran X-Men. If we were going by the early 90's X-Men arcade game he would have pulse wave - an energy spark! J/K.
So respectively - 8 clicks, 7 clicks, and 6 clicks. Lots of cool little additions to the veteran.
GO COLOSSUS!




:D

[Manchine]

Wow I have to say.

No to Red Gambit not even close to what it should be.

[Red Gambit]

I'm actually bidding for an experienced - I'm seeing online auctions of XPlosion guys from the Megacon everywhere! Yeah, LOTS of clicks, Hulk or swamp thing like amounts, almost. Lots of Invulnerability - no impervious. Also the damage stays consistently at 4 or 3! And lots of charge.
Sweet, finally great X-Men teams.
Colossus's real strength is that he will be a slugger who can be easily carried, and the whole X-Men team ability. No Brotherhood for any of the versions.:p

[the itsy bit]

all the stats of all the Xplosion figs are in the warrior's section since 6/7 march redgambit.