Power Surge: The Gotham City Criminal

[CheeseWiz]

Power Surge: The Gotham City Criminal
<img src="/units/ht022.jpg" style="width:75px;"/><img src="/units/aa008.jpg" style="width:75px;"/>
Escalation. As Gotham City heralds new heroes to fight against crime, so too does the criminal element evolve. In the days of Hypertime, the criminal could barely put up a fight. But, can the criminals of today's game take down even the Bat? Click "Full Story" to read more!

[CheeseWiz]

Last time we looked at the increased cost of the Hand Ninja. At 38pts, the new ninja is more expensive to field than both V ninja’s from Xplosion, and also costs more than several Daredevils and Elektra’s. Today, we will look at the LE Henchman from AA. At 40pts, he is now almost 3 times more costly than the Criminal in Hypertime, and rivals that of several Batman figures of similar cost. This article will examine these similarly point costed-dials in the hopes of asking the question, “should un-named generics cost as much as named super-heroes?".

Some could argue that Batman represents the peak of human conditioning. Possessing, brains, willpower, physical shape, and a bunch of cool toys, Batman is a formidable opponent to enemies and allies alike. In Clix terms, he has been represented over the years in various incarnations. From his 200+, hey, I have a Yellow Ring!, to his Golden Age of humble beginnings, all versions of Batman seem poised to tackle the opposition.

But, can older versions of Batman clear the streets of today’s criminal and thugs?

Golden Age Batman:
or095 U Batman
Team: Batman Ally
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 44
Keywords: Detective, Gotham City, Justice Society
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst89162791627916179151681516815268142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Starter Bats:
io001 E Batman
Team: Batman Ally
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 47
Keywords: Detective, Gotham City, Martial Artist
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst8101628915279152781426814167131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Decent stats for a little over 40 pts. Leap climb and outwit with a nice 10 attack and perma-stealth make this the go-to low cost outwit Batman, but the 44 Orgin Bats, with up front charge, and just a push away from perplex (turn off willpower of course), is definitely no slouch either. Both of these heroes should have no trouble taking down the criminal from hyper time:

ht024 V Criminal
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 14
Keywords: Gotham City
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst7715266141551315512144111KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

This guy is pretty much just blocking terrain and an easy 14 pts for your opponent. He should have stayed in school. In Arkham Asylum, we saw a nice little upgrade for the guy who made Batman the man he is today:

aa008 R Street Thug
Team: Batman Enemy
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 19
Keywords: Gotham City
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst6815168151681515714157141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

5 points buys a couple of upgrades. This guy has learned to keep things on the DL, and will mug you from the shadows (stealth), and sports much better combat values. A nice upgrade indeed, but for just over twice the point cost, the LE Henchman is Gotham City’s better class of criminal:

aa103 V Henchman
Team: Batman Enemy
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 40
Keywords: Gotham City, Injustice Gang, Injustice League, Injustice Society, Rogues, Secret Society of Super Villains, Superman Revenge Squad
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst8916188151781517715177141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO(Special) You'll Hafta Wear Some Silly Costumes: Henchman is a wild card.
(Damage) Do Whatever You're Told to Do: Henchman can use Perplex, but he can modify only his own combat values.

The Henchman now has more colors on his dial than the colors in Joker's wardrobe. He still sports stealth, but upfront super-senses could keep him conscious much longer. Hopefully SS is more representative of Blue-tooth technology calling in the location of the Bat instead of a manifestation of super-human abilities. But, if the bat were to sneak past and get in too close, they can let loose a dose of poison. Self-perplex will help out with middling combat values. Or, using their BE or WC TA they could bump up their attack too. Lastly, Kevlar body armor will keep them in the fight much longer, which fades into willpower to help get that last hit in. See what night-school will do for you?

Whereas the old criminal existed only to get his head knocked around, the newer generics can now get a punch in or two, and could even possibly KO Batman! His Batsuit just won’t take a straight shot. At least it should do great against cats.

While both Batman that we looked at should triumph over the criminal element, this is perhaps due to raw numbers, more than anything. Batman has a better chance of hitting, and doing more damage, over a longer dial. Even though there is a substantial point increase in the new Henchman over the old, these newer generics still function as generics, with their short dials and low damage output. These guys still go down hard. Just not as fast and easy.

So, the question remains: should generics of the non-super-powered variety come scarily close in point-cost and playability to named super-heroes? Should a thug off the streets be capable of KOing Batman, or any other crime fighter in his weight class? Should we embrace new generics that could wipe the floor super-heroes and mutants alike: Hellfire guards that could take down Wolverine before he gets a chance to slice and dice?; Hydra members that could swarm over and beat-down Captain America?; Intergang agents that are issued kryptonite bullets?; Parademons with a nasty Darkseid Minion ability? This is the direction that generics are going. It’s a shift in game-design. But is it a fresh, good change? Or should generics be the cheap mastermind, tie-up cannon fodder we once knew and loved?

[brojase]

So, the question remains: should generics of the non-super-powered variety come scarily close in point-cost and playability to named super-heroes? Should a thug off the streets be capable of KOing Batman, or any other crime fighter in his weight class? Should we embrace new generics that could wipe the floor super-heroes and mutants alike: Hellfire guards that could take down Wolverine before he gets a chance to slice and dice?; Hydra members that could swarm over and beat-down Captain America?; Intergang agents that are issued kryptonite bullets?; Parademons with a nasty Darkseid Minion ability? This is the direction that generics are going. It’s a shift in game-design. But is it a fresh, good change? Or should generics be the cheap mastermind, tie-up cannon fodder we once knew and loved?

First of all, nice write up!

I kind of fall in the middle camp on this one, I guess. I have no problem with Asgardian warriors, Valkryie, Rock Trolls, Fire Demons- they have some supernatural stuff going on, and I think that their powers are offset by short dials (or, in the case of the Rock Troll, a long dial offset by no damage reducers). Manhunters, White Martians- same thing (although I have a hard time considering a 90 point White Martian "generic".

I do wish that newer generics had the lower point costs, but then the older aren't necessarily competitive in the current game. Skrulls, for example. I like the cheap factor for the old skrulls, but in today's environment, I just don't feel like they are competitive. The Supernova Skrulls hang in there better...but they also cost more, so it's tougher to run large swarms of them without playing a large point game.

It's a delicate balance, IMO. For the most part, I like having some offensive capabilities from my generics- but then, I don't want them with significant firepower either. And hopefully the newer heroes that are designed are more buff than their older counterparts too.

[TimoSupremo]

The new Henchmen may not know karate but they sure know ka-razy!!! :laugh:

I find it unsettling that generics are getting power creeped up the wazoo, keep them low or keep them out if you ask me.

The next thing you know a team of these lowlifes will be able to take down Galactus... now that would be WHACK!?!?!?!?:confused:

[saturnflight]

Anyone who's watched Batman the Animated Series knows that Batman takes more hits than Aaron Rogers. Batman finds any thug his equal; somehow his compitence fluctuates on a nightly basis.

[webhead76]

For a generic, I think that's a little to powerful and same goes for the Gotham City Detective. A few tricks up there sleeves is nice, but I think they've overdone it with the powers that generics should have. Do people truly want to invest 44pts or 25pts for a character that could get taken down in a couple of hits (unless it's a big point game)? I probably wouldn't,

I have to say this though, the criminal element finally got a character that can at least hit back instead of just being mobile terrain. Even in comics, sometimes the thug or henchman gets lucky!

[Miraclo]

I'd have liked to see what the Henchman would have been costed at had they removed the first click. A 4-click piece with Stealth, a couple clicks of Toughness (or at least one leading one) and a click or two of self-Perplex. We may have gotten one that was useful, reasonably representative of a professional, low-end criminal, and gotten them for under 30 points each, which would be very handy.

My biggest complaint with this? Making something like the AA Henchman -- and I'm referring as much to wide band of keywords as a little color on the dial -- and making it an LE.

I hate the concept of LEs that are only available as prizes, and generic ones are at least a level of magnitude worse.

[jackstar7]

Having had the chance to finally play my 3 Henchmen, I can say they were well worth it. The game was a little higher point with some restrictions (500pts, no characters over 100pts), but when teamed up with The Joker, Two-Face, thugs and crooked cops... they were very respectable. The poison surprised my opponents and made these guys viable right to the end.

And I certainly agree that making this guy and LE was a jerk move.

[vectin]

I think we're getting there with the generics, particularly with the "minion" capability. Finally, something that makes playing a swarm of grunts fun & competitive!

IMHO, swarm teams takes a bit more finesse. You give up a lot, in most cases running swarms, except obviously for SHIELD. With the addition of "minion" they may have a fighting chance finally.

I don't see a problem with never seeing another fig under 25pts, so long as they have some viability in the new power/sp dynamic. I think "minion" provides that bridge.

I'd next like to see some howling commandos (x-over the PD ability to marvel!), kobra fanatics, sgt. rock and crew, checkmate, generic amazons (rng & cc versions pls).

[psycho69]

i played:
128 AA joker w/ trickshot, protected + alias
265 henchman x5 w/ alias + armor piercing
206 henchman x5 (2 w/ alias)
001 lian harper
600 pts.

this team took down a jsa theme team with:
350 E-2 supes w/ fort + protected
069 sandman w/ armor piercing
084 r. jade w/ trick shot
054 r. wildcat
043 exp. dr. midnite
600 pts.

crazy strong. the winning play was getting the alias roll when superman attacked joker on the second turn, from elevated (with "0" movement left), in range of all the henchman but one, on a push.

and still i love them. i think that every now and then a "thug" gets lucky. i do think generics shouldn't be limited though. whether as prizes (henchman), in action packs (thunderers + shadow demons) or starters (doombots).

just my $.02.

Rob

[broodwarjc]

I like the more powerful generics, I think they add a needed boost to villain teams. I for one like to play villains more than heroes and I know some people will agree with me that villains got the short end of the stick in this game. The more powerful generics add more offensive (higher values more powers) and defensive (more clicks of life, toughness, ect..) options to a lot of villain teams. So I am all for some more powerful generics.

[gatharion]

I see no point to generics that are just mastermind or tie-up fodder. In comics it happens all the time that a thug gets in a lucky hit or a group of them swarm the hero.

I love the generics in HoT, dangerous enough that you can't afford to ignore them, but easy to take out with a single hit or two.

[fox007]

I also feel generics should be threatening. Like the new hand ninjas left alone the can attack for free or provived range support. or gotham dectives enhancement and range support not to mention either can do damage to a big piece. i think it just makes the game more fun. i really wanna run deathstroke w/ hand ninjas and ninja bats.

[CheeseWiz]

Awesome responses, guys! A lot of good points have been mentioned. Thanks for reading, and a round of rep for everyone!!

[EvilTwinSkippy]

"So, the question remains: should generics of the non-super-powered variety come scarily close in point-cost and playability to named super-heroes?"

No.

[Gigas]

First of all, nice write up!

I kind of fall in the middle camp on this one, I guess. I have no problem with Asgardian warriors, Valkryie, Rock Trolls, Fire Demons- they have some supernatural stuff going on, and I think that their powers are offset by short dials (or, in the case of the Rock Troll, a long dial offset by no damage reducers). Manhunters, White Martians- same thing (although I have a hard time considering a 90 point White Martian "generic".

I do wish that newer generics had the lower point costs, but then the older aren't necessarily competitive in the current game. Skrulls, for example. I like the cheap factor for the old skrulls, but in today's environment, I just don't feel like they are competitive. The Supernova Skrulls hang in there better...but they also cost more, so it's tougher to run large swarms of them without playing a large point game.

It's a delicate balance, IMO. For the most part, I like having some offensive capabilities from my generics- but then, I don't want them with significant firepower either. And hopefully the newer heroes that are designed are more buff than their older counterparts too.

Great article. I am pretty much with Brojase (like always) on this one. As the game progresses, balance becomes a particular balance with every clix. Generics just have more limitations to them that make it that much harder to dream up ideas for. I was pleased with the minion/henchmen interpretation I have seen in HoT. Of course lets see what happens with the run of the mill people that we might see in the next 2 sets.

[buck]

Although I know the keywords tell it differently, I always thought of the lackey as the one to go with the Gotham Criminal element. It looks like it was based off of the Penguin's goons from the 1960's Batman movie. May be just a coincidence, but it earns him a spot with the Batman enemies for me.

[1clickbraindmg]

I find myself less conflicted than my brethren -- I *hate* powerless dials. I haven't picked up a pre-Avengers generic since ... well, Avengers. Bring on the 'Minions.' Don't give me a piece less than 30 points, if that's what it takes to make every piece a threat to my opponent.

Let it finally be said that the days of 0 Damage, 10 Defense and pure vanilla stat-windows are behind us forever.

[WatTsu]

With regards to the question of whether a generic should be a match for a hero, shouldn't that be a given? After all, the idea of the "punk who gets lucky" is brought up a lot in superhero comics, and it's part of the danger they face. What happens if one night some thug with a gun gets a lucky shot on Batman and does what the Joker, Bane, and Ra's Al Ghul never could? I think that's one of the more interesting ideas in comics that doesn't get explored very much, and as such I am totally in favor of Heroclix keeping generics relatively powerful to represent that threat.

They should never be better than the hero on paper, but they should always have that possibility that with a fortunate turn of events - or a critical hit - they could take down the Bat/the Spider/etc.

[solstenik77]

Last time we looked at the increased cost of the Hand Ninja. At 38pts, the new ninja is more expensive to field than both V ninja’s from Xplosion, and also costs more than several Daredevils and Elektra’s. Today, we will look at the LE Henchman from AA. At 40pts, he is now almost 3 times more costly than the Criminal in Hypertime, and rivals that of several Batman figures of similar cost. This article will examine these similarly point costed-dials in the hopes of asking the question, “should un-named generics cost as much as named super-heroes?".

Some could argue that Batman represents the peak of human conditioning. Possessing, brains, willpower, physical shape, and a bunch of cool toys, Batman is a formidable opponent to enemies and allies alike. In Clix terms, he has been represented over the years in various incarnations. From his 200+, hey, I have a Yellow Ring!, to his Golden Age of humble beginnings, all versions of Batman seem poised to tackle the opposition.

But, can older versions of Batman clear the streets of today’s criminal and thugs?

Golden Age Batman:
or095 U Batman
Team: Batman Ally
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 44
Keywords: Detective, Gotham City, Justice Society
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst89162791627916179151681516815268142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Starter Bats:
io001 E Batman
Team: Batman Ally
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 47
Keywords: Detective, Gotham City, Martial Artist
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst8101628915279152781426814167131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Decent stats for a little over 40 pts. Leap climb and outwit with a nice 10 attack and perma-stealth make this the go-to low cost outwit Batman, but the 44 Orgin Bats, with up front charge, and just a push away from perplex (turn off willpower of course), is definitely no slouch either. Both of these heroes should have no trouble taking down the criminal from hyper time:

ht024 V Criminal
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 14
Keywords: Gotham City
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst7715266141551315512144111KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

This guy is pretty much just blocking terrain and an easy 14 pts for your opponent. He should have stayed in school. In Arkham Asylum, we saw a nice little upgrade for the guy who made Batman the man he is today:

aa008 R Street Thug
Team: Batman Enemy
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 19
Keywords: Gotham City
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst6815168151681515714157141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

5 points buys a couple of upgrades. This guy has learned to keep things on the DL, and will mug you from the shadows (stealth), and sports much better combat values. A nice upgrade indeed, but for just over twice the point cost, the LE Henchman is Gotham City’s better class of criminal:

aa103 V Henchman
Team: Batman Enemy
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 40
Keywords: Gotham City, Injustice Gang, Injustice League, Injustice Society, Rogues, Secret Society of Super Villains, Superman Revenge Squad
m-boota-fistd-normalg-starburst8916188151781517715177141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO(Special) You'll Hafta Wear Some Silly Costumes: Henchman is a wild card.
(Damage) Do Whatever You're Told to Do: Henchman can use Perplex, but he can modify only his own combat values.

The Henchman now has more colors on his dial than the colors in Joker's wardrobe. He still sports stealth, but upfront super-senses could keep him conscious much longer. Hopefully SS is more representative of Blue-tooth technology calling in the location of the Bat instead of a manifestation of super-human abilities. But, if the bat were to sneak past and get in too close, they can let loose a dose of poison. Self-perplex will help out with middling combat values. Or, using their BE or WC TA they could bump up their attack too. Lastly, Kevlar body armor will keep them in the fight much longer, which fades into willpower to help get that last hit in. See what night-school will do for you?

Whereas the old criminal existed only to get his head knocked around, the newer generics can now get a punch in or two, and could even possibly KO Batman! His Batsuit just won’t take a straight shot. At least it should do great against cats.

While both Batman that we looked at should triumph over the criminal element, this is perhaps due to raw numbers, more than anything. Batman has a better chance of hitting, and doing more damage, over a longer dial. Even though there is a substantial point increase in the new Henchman over the old, these newer generics still function as generics, with their short dials and low damage output. These guys still go down hard. Just not as fast and easy.

So, the question remains: should generics of the non-super-powered variety come scarily close in point-cost and playability to named super-heroes? Should a thug off the streets be capable of KOing Batman, or any other crime fighter in his weight class? Should we embrace new generics that could wipe the floor super-heroes and mutants alike: Hellfire guards that could take down Wolverine before he gets a chance to slice and dice?; Hydra members that could swarm over and beat-down Captain America?; Intergang agents that are issued kryptonite bullets?; Parademons with a nasty Darkseid Minion ability? This is the direction that generics are going. It’s a shift in game-design. But is it a fresh, good change? Or should generics be the cheap mastermind, tie-up cannon fodder we once knew and loved?

I understand where you are going but this figure was not meant to be any street thug. This fig is a representation of a small story line of a professional henchman who had worked for all the major baddies(Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Two-Face......) and survived numerous encounters with batman from different points of view. So his powers are not manifestations of super abilities but that of experience. Personally I liked the concept of the figure because so many times batman and superman get the spotlight, and rightly so, but you can't have these Iconic characters without the details, and in truth that is what this figure represents. That there are dangerous guys out there that even Bruce and Clark should be wary of, and they had to start somewhere.........

[CheeseWiz]

Snip.
Personally I liked the concept of the figure because so many times batman and superman get the spotlight, and rightly so, but you can't have these Iconic characters without the details, and in truth that is what this figure represents. That there are dangerous guys out there that even Bruce and Clark should be wary of, and they had to start somewhere.........


I like this thought. Rep for that.