Wizkid needs to listen to some advice......

[Ironman44]

This post was inspired by the 160 point Electra.

I love this game.
There are complaints about the figs and their powers. Where there is smoke there is fire.
If there are this many complaints about figs and their powers they should have put together a consortium of Marvel believers donating their services for free. They would of worked out the figs in relation to each other.
The system in place to figure figs out is a bit broken. Some figs are great and some are not. Get the current designers to hear more opinions before finalizing the figures. I play with a group of 8. There are 2 guys in the group that would have made everyone happy today if they would of designed the figs....and is this not the bottom line for wizkids? making the customer happy?
The guys I am talking about have collected and read marvel comics for over 20 years. They also played the role playing game for 12 years. These are the types of guys that need to help design the figures. These guys would work for free!

[whiteperegrine]

...nearly fell over when I saw that...160pt Elektra!

hey, I'm a fan of the comics too, but 160pts?? assuming we are attempting to keep the game relative to the comics she is no where near that mark...hell...I bet she'll be able to drop juggernaut with no problems...something inherently wrong here people. (being the geek I am) Elektra would have absolutely NO chance against juggernaut...

bottom line...I think they should try and stay closer to the comics and NOT so close to appeasing the fanboys.

[JayThor]

I have to agree. Its bad enough we have another Elektra (movie be darned), but she is worth more than Darkseid! and Hulk! and Juggernaut! Get real, people. She doesn't have any powers! You guys want to make more women characters: Warbird, Tigra, Sif, Valkyrie, Moonstone, Songbird, Photon, Volcana, Quicksand, Thundra, Power Princess, Arcana, Gamora, Spider Woman (JessicaDrew), Silver Sable........

[whiteperegrine]

oooo...yeah, Silver Sable....she'll make a good conversion for one of my billions of elektra's... heh

[MarkFinn]

It seems to me that the two factors that will keep you from seeing a battlefield crowded with Elektras are the fact that she's expensive and the fact that she's a unique. As a unique, she takes up only one slot, and as an expensive piece, she's hard to work with a team.

So, what's your beef, exactly? Those elements are part of the design process. She was an arse-kicking loner before she was stripped of her assassin status and got shivved by Bullseye in the Daredevil comic. What are you really mad about?

And don't tell me that a figure's cost determines a figure's effectiveness. It's part of the equation, sure, but it's also a lot in HOW you play the figure. Sure, she may be a great offensive piece, but base her next to Mr. Fantastic and the Thing and she won't last two punches.

It seems like you have some sort of personal investment in this. Maybe I'm missing something, here. I can tell you as a long-time comics fan that this may be the first Elektra figure I try to field. Wanna know why? Elektra: Assassin was the only series that I really liked her in. So, I'm tickled pink. What's really on your mind with this?

[whiteperegrine]

Originally posted by MarkFinn
So, what's your beef, exactly? Those elements are part of the design process. She was an arse-kicking loner before she was stripped of her assassin status and got shivved by Bullseye in the Daredevil comic. What are you really mad about?

And don't tell me that a figure's cost determines a figure's effectiveness. It's part of the equation, sure, but it's also a lot in HOW you play the figure. Sure, she may be a great offensive piece, but base her next to Mr. Fantastic and the Thing and she won't last two punches.


"what's my beef? just concern that we are seeing more and more pieces being built to appease fanboys than to represent the actual character that is portrayed in the comics. I am sure elektra was an 'arse-kicker' in her series but I wonder exactly who "arse" she was kicking. do you really believe that she would have a chance against some of the more average "bricks" in the marvel universe if you look at it objectively? I don' think so...elektra was an extremely skilled normal who usually faced off against normals. should she face off against anyone of true power I doubt she would be as effective as you may believe.

now this is not meant as an 'elektra sucks' rant...quite the opposite actually. elektra was a bad mamba-jamba but I am hoping to see the relative power levels maintained in heroclix so we can see a more 'true' representation of the comics in this great game. at 160pts I expect she will have a deeper dial than many "bricks" and her powers will be able to make mince meat of said "bricks"...not quite the elektra that I remember

...in the end, my concerns about elektra really don't stack to a hill of beans. she's been made and I will just have to move on, which I will do. I had only hoped that there would be some kind of truer translation of the characters (given the game mechanics) to heroclix versus appeasing fanboys...the downside being that I know this will never happen...

[MarkFinn]

Originally posted by whiteperegrine


"what's my beef? just concern that we are seeing more and more pieces being built to appease fanboys than to represent the actual character that is portrayed in the comics. I am sure elektra was an 'arse-kicker' in her series but I wonder exactly who "arse" she was kicking. do you really believe that she would have a chance against some of the more average "bricks" in the marvel universe if you look at it objectively? I don' think so...elektra was an extremely skilled normal who usually faced off against normals. should she face off against anyone of true power I doubt she would be as effective as you may believe.

Well, that begs the question, who is playing this game, and how does that differ from its intended audience? This game brought me to miniatures gaming, largely from a sense of nostalgia for the comics of my youth (I'm still active in comics, but I don't order the Sea Monkeys out of the back, if you take my meaning), and also appealing to my inner kid, the one who played with army men and Megos. I don't know what your background is for gaming, but I know from experience (I worked on The Lost World relaunch with Al Leonardi, among others) that systems with set moves and powers could be creatively interpreted, but ultimately had to fit within its own confines. In other words, there were only four speed levels for characters in Lost Worlds. Certain moves and outcomes were programed in; we couldn't get around them. All we could do was alter the effect of the character vs. other characters. This is a long way of saying, I don't think anyone is cheating any points, here, and while she may be offensively capable, she's not unstoppable. Not by a long shot.

now this is not meant as an 'elektra sucks' rant...quite the opposite actually. elektra was a bad mamba-jamba but I am hoping to see the relative power levels maintained in heroclix so we can see a more 'true' representation of the comics in this great game. at 160pts I expect she will have a deeper dial than many "bricks" and her powers will be able to make mince meat of said "bricks"...not quite the elektra that I remember

Now we're into subjective areas, here. Namely, perception. It kinda all comes down to whether or not you value ninja powers or not. Frank Miller, who wrote E:A did. He still has a thing for women with martial arts skills. Other writers have chosen to portray her differently (the most recent series was god-awful, I thought).

It's important to remember when we're discussing relative power levels that not everyone agrees who who could beat up who. Case in point: Erik Larson wrote a Sinister Six storyline wherein Doc Ock went to Vegas and pimp-slapped the Hulk (then Mr. Fixit). He beat him and tossed him aside like a rag doll. Now, do you think in Clix terms that could've happened? Probably not. How, then, is the medium of HeroClix character generation any different from people who write comics? Why point to comics as some kind of Bible for the Clix when even THEY Can't agree? Roughly six months later, Peter David wrote Doc Ock into the Hulk comic for the sole purpose of having Mr. Fixit pummel the good doctor. So, even the Marvel staff had opinions (and rightfully so, since they are all fictional characters) about who would best who in a fight. The answer is, of course, who's writing the book, and who do THEY want to win?

...in the end, my concerns about elektra really don't stack to a hill of beans. she's been made and I will just have to move on, which I will do. I had only hoped that there would be some kind of truer translation of the characters (given the game mechanics) to heroclix versus appeasing fanboys...the downside being that I know this will never happen...


Personally, I'd place a little MORE faith in the game mechanics. That's the constant. That's the balancing act. You just can't see it because you can't look it up for yourself. I really don't know if points got "tweaked" between sets. Even though I'd never play him, Firelord is certainly an accurate representation of a character in the comics. And he's all over the place. You probably won't see too many of these Elektras running around. What's more balanced, then? One Elektra and some SHIELD agents, or 200 points worth of Firelords?

[whiteperegrine]

Originally posted by MarkFinn
Well, that begs the question, who is playing this game, and how does that differ from its intended audience? This game brought me to miniatures gaming, largely from a sense of nostalgia for the comics of my youth (I'm still active in comics, but I don't order the Sea Monkeys out of the back, if you take my meaning), and also appealing to my inner kid, the one who played with army men and Megos. I don't know what your background is for gaming, but I know from experience (I worked on The Lost World relaunch with Al Leonardi, among others) that systems with set moves and powers could be creatively interpreted, but ultimately had to fit within its own confines. In other words, there were only four speed levels for characters in Lost Worlds. Certain moves and outcomes were programed in; we couldn't get around them. All we could do was alter the effect of the character vs. other characters. This is a long way of saying, I don't think anyone is cheating any points, here, and while she may be offensively capable, she's not unstoppable. Not by a long shot.

never said elektra was unstoppable. I believe that, given the range of powers and costs thus far for characters, this incarnation of her is a wee bit to much. I can appreciate the balancing act that is necessary in creating a system where you have characters versus character but sometimes a persons desire for a character to perform well can outstrip the system and allow said character to perform better than they normally would.

I too like heroclix for the nostalgia that it produces. I have been out of comics for a few years now and I love the whole idea. I had just hoped that they would form some sort of balance for the entire system, while still finding a way to keep it fair for the little guy to win against the uber-types like juggernaut. to be honest I think they have done an admiral job for the most part. are there things that I think should be different? you bet, but I get over them and move on...just like I will with elektra. I just think that someone somewhere has healthy fasination for our little assasin...else why the 160pts version? she was popular but I would bet that there are numerous other heroes that have a larger following that would warrent an upgrade such as this.

...never bought the sea monkeys either....for the record...

Now we're into subjective areas, here. Namely, perception. It kinda all comes down to whether or not you value ninja powers or not. Frank Miller, who wrote E:A did. He still has a thing for women with martial arts skills. Other writers have chosen to portray her differently (the most recent series was god-awful, I thought).

It's important to remember when we're discussing relative power levels that not everyone agrees who who could beat up who. Case in point: Erik Larson wrote a Sinister Six storyline wherein Doc Ock went to Vegas and pimp-slapped the Hulk (then Mr. Fixit). He beat him and tossed him aside like a rag doll. Now, do you think in Clix terms that could've happened? Probably not. How, then, is the medium of HeroClix character generation any different from people who write comics? Why point to comics as some kind of Bible for the Clix when even THEY Can't agree? Roughly six months later, Peter David wrote Doc Ock into the Hulk comic for the sole purpose of having Mr. Fixit pummel the good doctor. So, even the Marvel staff had opinions (and rightfully so, since they are all fictional characters) about who would best who in a fight. The answer is, of course, who's writing the book, and who do THEY want to win?

agreed....it boils down to who's writing the script but I am sure we can find a regular medium for every character out there. where to start for this reference material? marvel's own Marvel Universe books which outlined all the characters...then we could move on to Marvel SuperHeroes RPG (the original and advanced). this system did a pretty good job at balancing the heroes against one another...imo.

like I mentioned originally...what I say doesn't really mean anything in the long run and I am just putting some concerns out there. given that they have decided to give us a high cost elektra can we expect to see a high cost rick jones in the future...he rates...I mean he has been everywhere, with everyone and has done nearly everything...140pts rick jones in the near future?

...ok...that wasn't necessary, I admit, but makes you wonder...

[MarkFinn]

I just pulled this from the thread, A Friendly Chat with Jon Leithusser:

What's the deal with all the Wolverine figures? Does Hugh Jackman have compromising photos from the WizKids' Christmas party? And Elektra?

[Jon Leithusser] You've found out the real reason!

Um, no, that's not it. The reason why we have a handful of repeat characters is because they're important figures to Marvel. We don't have any sort of contractual obligation to them about which characters we'll include, it's just a matter of making sure the key characters are in each set. If you were new to the game when Xplosion was released you'd want to have a chance of getting Spider-Man, the Hulk, Wolverine, Daredevil, and Elektra in the newest set. I know Elecktra is sort of reaching in some people's opinions, but she's a big part of the new movie and she's a popular character. Plus, it's always good to have a strong female character.

In addition, there are plenty of versions of some of those characters, each of which plays and acts differently on the board.

I think that we will see a bunch of characters get an upgrade in the Unique portion of every list. Take Spidey, for example. The new unique Spidey perfectly addresses fan concerns. Interestingly, no one is complaining about the lack of availability because Spidey is a unique. In fact, I suspect that the only real concern with the new Elektra will be from people trying to pull one from the pack. She'll be Xplosion's Nightcrawler.

And hey, I'd LOVE a Rick Jones Clix figure. Talk about fun for fans! He starts with just about nothing, and then his E and V get more and more powerful. Stat-wise, he goes from being a thug to being Nick Fury. Plus Avengers. You BET I'd field him.

[Jackalope]

hmm. Kind of a bad example imo. Clobberin' Time and Xplosion are both EXPANSION sets. You need to have at least (1) starter (keeping it Marvel here) set of Infinity Challange so you have a map and Powers Card. To say "If you were new to the game when Xplosion was released..." blah blah blah is dumb. They shoudn't multiply release characters (again imo) until a new start comes out. Would be much cooler to see new figures with each "set" (including expansions). Maybe 1-2 Uniques later on but there shouldn't be any multiple R/E/V of figures I think.

[Manchine]

To be the voice of Reason.

My thoughts are do I think this character is going to be able to handle any character of 120 points on up, 1 on 1. I dont think so. We always get 1 or 2 fanboys klixs. Electra is a Unique. She will not be made like this again. She has some nice powers but she could not handle darkseid, hulk, Doom, Thanos, or any other powerful fig. This character is not that bad.

I am perfectly happy with repeat figs, as long as its not firelordish.

[onew0rd]

Obvious statement warning:

Wizkids is a business. So is marvel comics. Electktra is getting a "Push". They want her to be a chase figure and they want this type of discussion to keep her on the tongue. Publicity and whatnot. Elektra and DD previews coincide with movie? hmmm...

Same reason Nightcrawler was a Unique.

[MarkFinn]

Originally posted by Jackalope
hmm. Kind of a bad example imo. Clobberin' Time and Xplosion are both EXPANSION sets. You need to have at least (1) starter (keeping it Marvel here) set of Infinity Challange so you have a map and Powers Card. To say "If you were new to the game when Xplosion was released..." blah blah blah is dumb. They shoudn't multiply release characters (again imo) until a new start comes out. Would be much cooler to see new figures with each "set" (including expansions). Maybe 1-2 Uniques later on but there shouldn't be any multiple R/E/V of figures I think.

Well, we're getting a little of both, aren't we? The New DD (movie time!) is R/E/V, but the new Spidey and Elektra are uniques. I'll trust their marketing department on this one.

And by the way, thanks for making clear that it was your opinion and not some word of law. It's nice to have a reasonable discussion, especially with disparate opinions.

[fogstradamus]

I knew all the mainstream characters before playing heroclix and most of the X-men ladies such as Rogue, Mystique, Jubilee, Jeah Grey, etc... but don't think I knew of Elektra.
I can understand the multiple Wolverines due to his popularity and long diverse hisotry. But I don't think making Elektra in every set is going to make more money. I think it's one of a few things, either it's for political correctness, some whipped boyfriend has to put his girl's favorite character in every set or some guy has a creepy fixation on a comic book hero, especially if you make a 160 point version of her since everyone complained about his girl in CT he was going to show everyone what his lady could do. Just plain weird if you ask me not to mention unecessary.

[MarkFinn]

Originally posted by fogstradamus
I knew all the mainstream characters before playing heroclix and most of the X-men ladies such as Rogue, Mystique, Jubilee, Jeah Grey, etc... but don't think I knew of Elektra.
I can understand the multiple Wolverines due to his popularity and long diverse hisotry. But I don't think making Elektra in every set is going to make more money. I think it's one of a few things, either it's for political correctness, some whipped boyfriend has to put his girl's favorite character in every set or some guy has a creepy fixation on a comic book hero, especially if you make a 160 point version of her since everyone complained about his girl in CT he was going to show everyone what his lady could do. Just plain weird if you ask me not to mention unecessary.

In real time, she's not much younger than Wolverine. Just because she's off of your radar doesn't mean that she didn't have a rabid fan following from the get-go. In the early 80's, Elektra was one of the most popular characters. Considering the fact that the Daredevil movie was based on that particular storyline from the early 80's, I think it's pretty obvious as to why she was included.

The rest of your comments were pretty unnecessary.

[PantherPriest]

I am quite happy with elektra, and in return I expecy a unique black panther with a 114 point minimum, who actually has a chance at beating the entire fantastic four single handedly. If I had time I would post a forum about him stating what he does.

Once again it's all on who reads what comics. Anyone who read Priest's Black Panther will agree that although he was a good fig, he should have been more powerful. Anyone who hasn't probably thinks that the idea of a Panther above 100 pts is inane.

Everyone who has read E:A, seems to agree with her powers, everyone else is steamed, and I belive we currently have 4 forums going on this exact topic.

I didn't read Elektra: assassin so I will take the word of those who did, and play her happily cuz she looks cool... and isn't that what's really important. I believe that firelord is hated so because he looks like a flamming doofus. Now if he had a cool pimp suit like mr. fixit, no one would complain :cool:

[PantherPriest]

tell me fogs, why must the boyfriend be whipped? If I were designing a game I would include my girlfriends favorite character in every set, in tribute to her, and because it would make her happy. That doesn't mean I wouldn't include my own favorite super hero, the hulk, in every set. (Black Panther is not a super hero, read the comics.) Now after a while I may replace her second favorite with her first just cuz I'm out of ideas or am bored of it. But this does not make me "whipped."

But, then again I have no girlfriend, read the quote, so it doesn't really matter. (Tears)

[fogstradamus]

In real time, she's not much younger than Wolverine. Just because she's off of your radar doesn't mean that she didn't have a rabid fan following from the get-go. In the early 80's, Elektra was one of the most popular characters. Considering the fact that the Daredevil movie was based on that particular storyline from the early 80's, I think it's pretty obvious as to why she was included.

See your signature for some good advice.

[MarkFinn]

Originally posted by fogstradamus
[B]I knew all the mainstream characters before playing heroclix and most of the X-men ladies such as Rogue, Mystique, Jubilee, Jeah Grey, etc... but don't think I knew of Elektra.
I can understand the multiple Wolverines due to his popularity and long diverse hisotry. But I don't think making Elektra in every set is going to make more money.

Toots, don't start yammering about comics history if you haven't heard of one of the most influential storylines (from one of the most influential creators) of the last 20 years. I'm sorry if my answer to your ignorant statement put you off. Maybe you just had a bad day and came here to blow off some steam. I don't know. But we were talking comics just now, not clix. And you should do a modicum of research before you post an opinion. Or state it as such.

[Jackalope]

/Rant on

Originally posted by fogstradamus
I knew all the mainstream characters before playing heroclix and most of the X-men ladies such as Rogue, Mystique, Jubilee, Jeah Grey, etc... but don't think I knew of Elektra.

I find these remarks too funny. I love all the experts (notice how many Daredevil experts are out there now?) that crop up when something new becomes "hot". For someone to say they know the mainstream characters and now know Elektra is .... just showing who much they know. Elektra has been 'mainstream' marvel for the last 5 years easily. The current series is her 2nd (solo ongoing) series that they've done now about that time frame.

Go check out "Daredevil: Visionaries" vol 2 and 3, go check out the "Elektra Saga" L.S., go check out "Elektra: Assassin" 8-part L.S. or even go back to Daredevil (vol 1) 168 - 192. After 181 not every issue has Elektra in it for obvious reasons (if you don't know.... it just goes to further my point) but all are good reads if nothing else until 192.

I'm sure a closer statement of your "expertise" would be:

"I knew all the mainstream X-Men characters before playing heroclix "

Dispite what people have been thinking for the last 10 years or so the Marvel universe does not start and stop on the X-Titles. Most of the X-Experts (oh oh Joe Q probably just got a new idea for a title!) probably don't even know that X-Men SUCKED and was canceled until the re-launch with Giant Sized X-Men #1 and X-Men #94.

/Rant off

Edit: Deleted a double section

[fogstradamus]

Is that fat Comic book store owner from the Simpsons...

I'm sure you know his name and I don't need to know.

[JayThor]

Elektra for 5 years? Try closer to 25. She has been around since 1982 that I know of, and maybe before. The near obscene artwork of the 90's brought renewed attention to Elektra, along with Shi, Witchblade, Wonder Woman, and a host of Image females.

[Jackalope]

She has been around for that long. Read what I said. I said she's not had her own comic for about that long. If she had a ongoing series for 25 years thats a new one on me. Please tell me what the name of it was. She was in Daredevil for about a year and a half (168-181) and then had 1 limited series (Elektra: Assassin) and didn't show back up until maybe 5-7 years ago as a ongoing current character. She also had the Limited Series "Elektra Sega" but that was simply reprints of her Daredevil appearances minus the non-elektra parts of the stories.

You let me know what I'm wrong with this and try to come up with some facts. From the time she disapeared (dd 192) up until she got a re-launch (around 1997 or so) she had 1 series? She had a 'cult' following but to call her "mainstream" during that time is a stretch at best.

I guess I'm the "comic book guy" cause I know my facts about comics? I guess you don't care. Thats why you are on a comic book game fourm talking about a fictional female character right? wow can you please post a 8x10 pic of yourself so we can all stare at it and try to become as awesome as you fog? You must be so much cooler than the rest of us I guess.

[Ironman44]

Fog, it does not take a rocket scientist to realize that the reason Elektra was included in this set as well (and the preview shown on the 14th) was because of the new movie.
It's an obvious tie in that either marvel stipulated or an exec at wizkids thought was a good idea.
It's not a bad idea, it makes marketing sense as it brings more character awareness .
The 160 points is the problem, and even that is not that big of an issue. The designers are doing their best. I will support the game regardless. I have a feeling they got the point this time. They were roasted for the 160 points.

[whiteperegrine]

...elektra a mainstream character? I don't think so...while she does have a rabid following I would never consider her one of the 'staple characters' in the marvel universe.

I was pretty big in following comics back in the 80's and 90's and to be honest I really never heard all that much about elektra. oh sure, I did hear a little but that was more from the few issues of DD that I randomly collected. elektra was basically an unknown outside the DD book...

having a solo title does not confirm being a staple character either...if this was the case than my favorite character would be one of the mosty important characters of all. Good ole rich rider, Nova, the Human Rocket has had 3 solo titles and is also a member of a team book...pretty impressive... unfortunately, I would never consider him a mainstream character.

....ahhh...dreams of Nova being a member of the Avengers and an important member to boot....

[Doomtoy]

I don't think the comic book guy on the Simpsons has a name. He's just "Comic Book Guy."

And every time I hear ranting and raving about how this game sucks because certain figures don't work... well... all I can think is, "How would this person react if asked to design a superhero game from scratch, using more than thirty years of comic book continuity, and still make the game playable?"

Believe me, nobody at WizKids is doing these things just to bug you personally.

Although a Black Panther capable of taking on the entire rookie Fantastic Four all at once would be kind of interesting.

[sgtsicko]

Man this Elektra's been driving people crazy ... I picked up the new Daredevil hardcover a few months ago 'Love and War' which contains E:A and some other wacked out art story about Kingpin's wife ... The Elektra there're making seems exactly like in E:A , mind controlled an entire Sheild(?) base while tied into a computer, controlled a cyborg agent for most the series, killed everyone that crossed her path ... I think the 160 will be mostly because of the rainbow of powers they give her not amount of clicks and stats ... No tough/invul or regen so most 100+ clix should be able to take her with ease

I want a 100+ Black Panther too !!! Although his current click is cool and usefull it's still not the best representation of him. Only 2 clicks of outwit ?? He outsmarted the Devil !

I'm also all for more powerful / point cost versions of characters. I'd rather have 100/200+ versions of characters that might be too powerful than some of the versions we have now. Magneto and Thanos are the first to come to mind.

Oh yeah the main thing I wanted to say ... Does Marvel have a more popular female than Elektra ... Do any have their own title? Every other one seems to be part of a group wasp,invisible girl, phoenix. Oh wait I just remembered Jessica Jones of 'Alias' is a female with her own title. Come to think of it how many have actually had a series in the history of Marvel ?

[malchyor]

i'm all for high costed characters, but only if they would really be worth the points. i mean, sinestro or sentinel would both be great if only they were actually worth the 300pts....

i think the problem with the high level figs now are that some of the abilities that go into their cost totals are pointless. i mean, a 200+ pt character with leadership is paying a bunch of useless points for that leadership. or the new electra with both mind control and BFC is overcosted. i mean, sure it's cool to have the option to mind control or blades somebody, but because the two powers can't be used at the same time, it shouldn't cost full for both powers. there should be an increased cost for the option of using whichever power, but not full cost unless both are being used.

just my $.02.

[GroovyBoy]

Is it me or is Fogs looking so bad that he's resorted to half-assed, snide remarks?

[skeevo666]

The last succesful* comic themed collectible game, the OverPower CCG, had Elektra in it's first release. That was 1995. Sounds like a staple character to me . . :D (Wasp was due to be in the next-planned set)







*5 Years and 10 sets is something X-Men & Recharge have yet to do

[JoeyTheButt]

I gotta agree with whatever the writer wants to happen does. There have always been victories that would never happen again, but happened due to cheesey details.

But the point system was put there rate how powerful the character is, meaning characters of equal points should be equally matched. This is obviously not true, (just look at vet hobgoblin vs. rookie firelord) but it is at least a fairly good approximation.

It has already been pointed out that she is more points than the hulk, juggernaut, magneto, and many other very powerful heroes. Think of her against any one of those. They would slaughter her. It wouldn't even be a fight. Hell, she is even pretty close to thanos (only 25 points off), wonder who would win there... Even comic writers couldn't make that one happen!

Of course, I'll still play the game. I'm not trying to be on a wizkids bashing spree, but I just think that they could have done a better job with this one. Too many people seeing the movie and saying "ooohh Elektra is so cool! she could beat up anybody". Look a little harder and you'll see she's just a human with high skill and no real super powers, not to mention her inability to even hurt many heroes.

[Doctor Strange]

Originally posted by whiteperegrine


I am just putting some concerns out there. given that they have decided to give us a high cost elektra can we expect to see a high cost rick jones in the future...he rates...I mean he has been everywhere, with everyone and has done nearly everything...140pts rick jones in the near future?

...ok...that wasn't necessary, I admit, but makes you wonder...


This is kindof ironic, but they actually could make a 100+ version of Rick Jones :). Rick Jones is humanaties link to the Destiny Force. There was a 12 issue mini-series about it and while he cannot control when the power manifests, when it does, he can do just about anything he wants.

About Elektra: I haven't read Elektra Assassin yet, but everyone who has agrees that the 160 point figure is justified. As a fan of Elektra, im going to have to read it tho..

sgtsicko, was the entire Elektra Assassin story reprinted in "Love and War"?

[onew0rd]

Wierd thing is that I always thought that Elektra:Assassin was more like an elseworlds comic than real marvel continuity. Wasn't it? Because the way she was written in those comics, she was def. worth the 160 but I've never seen her written at that level again. And, yes obviously writers biases or preferences do determine the power level but generally they dont' deviate in crazy ways. For example, Hulk vs Thor could be written believably either way depending on who the writer likes or the book he is writing for but Elektra vs Thor (or Hulk) would be a stretch for Electra (not E:A) to win.