View Full Version : Special Power Spotlight: Fire Demons, Surturs & Ragnarok
anonym0use
12/28/2009, 09:18
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/units/ha201.jpg" class="imageleft" style="width:100px;" /> <img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/units/ha015.jpg" class="imageright" style="width:200px;" />
SPECIAL POWER SPOTLIGHT
Featuring
Fire Demons & SURTUR,
Son of Surtur &
RAGNAROK SURTUR!!!
This week we shine the spotlight at the armies of the end of days.
Click Full Story below to read more!
anonym0use
12/28/2009, 09:33
Welcome to another Special Power Spotlight.
Today the spotlight focuses on another minion/leader pair: the Hammer of Thor Fire Demons & Surtur. Additionally, the article will examine the viability of Ragnarok Surtur, as well as the Son of Surtur LE.
An army is only as good as its troops, so let’s take a look at how the Fire Demons rate:
ha015 R Fire Demon
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 33
Keywords: Asgardian, Monster
m-winga-fistd-normalg-starburst610163691635915258141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Damage) Minion: March to Ragnarok!: When a friendly character named Surtur is within 8 squares, Fire Demon can use Charge and modifies its attack value by +1
Fire Demons are not incredibly effective.
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/units/ha015.jpg" class="imageleft" style="width:200px;" /> A 6 speed value is slow enough that Surtur will enter the fight long before his Minions, especially if they need to carry anyone. They have Willpower, so at least they can move twice in a row without pushing, but then what? Get shot by the enemy? Without some serious mobility enhancement (TK, Kinetic Accelerator) they won’t be making any attacks until at least turn 4 (move, move, clear, & hope the enemy is within charge range) which leaves them sitting demon-ducks.
One thing that makes Fire Demons better, the Son of Surtur LE.
ha104 U Son of Surtur
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 68
Keywords: Asgardian, Monster
m-winga-fistd-normalg-starburst109173109173891627916278152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Damage) Fan the Flames: At the beginning of your turn, roll a d6 for each opposing character adjacent to one or more friendly characters named Fire Demon. On a result of 5 or 6, deal 1 damage to that opposing character.
Don’t confuse Fan the Flames with the Monster Society of Evil ATA. The two have a similar effect but MSoE is different in that it can be activated at the end of a turn. Fan the Flames works like Poison, in that it deals 1 damage at the beginning of a turn (so don’t forget it!). It is damage dealt and subject to reduction, so those Asgardian Warriors and Valkyries won’t bat at eye at those flames.
The biggest drawback to Fan the Flames is the placement of the power on Son of Surtur’s dial- just getting to it means the little hellspawn has pushed through half its dial – at which point Surt-ling will be a prime target for the opposition to take out.
The fire demons work with Surtur & as of recent rules updates (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4454836&postcount=9) Ragnarok Surtur.
What I'm not sure of - where/how official rulings are going to be posted/collected.
What I am sure of - errata to Fire Demon as of now. He really says "When a friendly character named Surtur or Ragnarok Surtur is within 8 squares, Fire Demon can use Charge and modifies its attack value by +1."
It’s good to know both figures can activate the Fire Demon’s minion trait. But which to use?
ha056 U Surtur
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 153
Keywords: Asgardian, Monster, Ruler
m-boota-fistd-indomitableg-giant811173811173710184710184610174691736817368163610163510164511155KOKOKOKO
(Damage) Expendable Resources: At the beginning of your turn, you may KO any number of friendly characters that have both the Asgardian and Monster keywords. For each character KO'd this way, Surtur can use Exploit Weakness and modifies his damage value by +1 until end of turn.
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/units/ha056.jpg" class="imageright" style="width:100px;" />For around 150 points the 11 click deep SR Surtur’s not bad. Shape Change can go a long way in protecting him (especially with Camouflage), but he suffers from Giant (Ultimates) Hulk syndrome – he’s a Giant frontloaded with Toughness.
Being a giant means he’s likely to get shot, and one good hit takes him past those gravy “4 damage/Impervious” clicks leaving him in middlesville. His defense never recovers after that, and while he’s able to dish out damage, it may not be enough to rely on for a win.
A power like Expendable Resources would only help if it worked a little more like the Suicide Squad TA, healing him or if it bumped his AV up as well. As it stands, automatically KO’ng a figure for a +1 damage bump and a use of Exploit Weakness is a gamble. A player who is automatically KO’ng their own figures, better hope that follow up attack hits. Hard.
Now compare SR Surtur to Ragnarok Surtur:
ha201 V Ragnarok Surtur
Team: Power Cosmic
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 233
Keywords: Asgardian, Deity, Monster, Warrior
m-boota-fistd-normalg-giant1010185101017481116481016389173891837917379173791536915469154KOKOKOKO
(Attack) Inferno: Ragnarok Surtur can use Poison. Damage dealt this way is penetrating damage
(Damage) Eternal Flame: Give Ragnarok Surtur a power action when he occupies an opponent's starting area. Any other character Ragnarok Surtur can draw a line of fire to is dealt 1 unavoidable damage. If this places a second action token on Ragnarok Surtur, deal him 1 unavoidable damage.
Ragnarok Surtur doesn't need feats to be effective.
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/units/ha201.jpg" class="imageleft" style="width:100px;" />With the SR players may want to equip Fortitude to keep his damage reducers safe, among a number of other feats. The brick figure's Power Cosmic TA goes a long way in making this a five star figure. Thanks to Inferno players don’t need Armor Piercing to the end dial make Poison stick. The opening damage value of 5, with Super Strength means he'll hit hard, compared to the risk of a poor B/C/F with the SR.
Eternal Flame seems like a great power, though it’s only for 3 clicks starting at the middle of his dial, and he’ll need to cross the field AND be in an opponents start zone for it to be use in a two player game. Eternal Flame could be a lot of fun, and easier to use in multi-player events.
Battlefield Tactics:
When maximizing the efficiency of a Demon swarm, crimping the opposing range is critical to success. Shut down ranged combat teams with Battlefield Conditions like Darkness, Deep Shadows and Shrunk to help buy the demons a few rounds to get into combat. Just be sure to note Shrunk will remove Surtur’s giant status, not an altogether bad thing as he can now be carried into battle and will be harder to target with ranged attacks.
Map choice can make a huge difference as well, with blocking terrain providing some cover as the Demon horde advances. The Sinister Prison, Secret Invasion Savage Land and Arkham Asylum maps provide plenty of cover.
Other maps to consider include the Supernova Space Map (which reduces ranged attacks), the Mutations and Monsters NYC map (for a doomsday feel) and the Anti-Monitor's Fortress. Avoid the Mutations and Monsters Arena map, the Galactus Rooftop and the BPRD Frog Temple, all of which are shooting galleries.
Once they’re in hand to hand, the Demons are quite fierce with the minion power in play. Strong attack values, decent damage (supplemented later by B/C/F) and the ability to attack twice in a row without pushing make them a threat only a fool would ignore.
When the fight begins, surround Surtur with the Minions. As a giant, Surtur will be able to attack over the troops while they tie up the opposition, and prevent opposing forces from making ranged attacks.
Non-accurate Theme Options
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/units/aa009.jpg" class="imageright" style="width:100px;" /> Purists may have a conniption with this idea, but because Surtur and Fire Demons possess the Monster keyword they have some non-universe specific help that remains in theme. The common Kid Devil from Arkham Asylum works well as a grounded "Fire Demon" and gives a Surtur centric team a little more punch without losing the keyword bonus. A few versions of Hellboy have the Monster keyword as well.
Build Options:
66 Fire Demon x2
153 HA056 Surtur
8 SIF005 Camouflage
8 MUF102 Protected
165 Kid Devil x3
400
233 Ragnarok Surtur
68 Son of Surtur
33 Fire Demon
33 Fire Demon
33 Fire Demon
400
As always, thanks for reading. Feel free to share your sample builds and Surtur stories (be they victory or defeat!) below!
I Am The Game
12/28/2009, 10:25
Well done. I especially like the Kid Devil suggestion. Zzzax has the right look too, since they made him orange instead of electric yellow. Can Surtur create flame elementals?
The Ragnarok Surtur also has another benefit, the Asgardian/Deity keywords that activate everyone's favorite Valkyries. Do you expect we'll see many players ruining the look of their team so that Surtur can carry around a demon wench?
Jarimy123
12/28/2009, 10:32
I've already seen someone use Rag Sutur and Valkyrie, so yea it will be seen.
What about Contingency Plan on Son of Sutur??? Will help boost speed of your Fire Demons. Have him sit back and not take actions so you can get CP tokens, and use them to boost the speed of your army.
anonym0use
12/28/2009, 10:41
Contingency Plan on SoS is a fine strategy, though a bit of a trade off.
You'll want every action avaialble to swarm in and attack, and with abundant Willpower/PC/Indom, there's no reason NOT to use every action every turn. CP will take away one of those actions to put a token on a card.
Overall, I'd prefer the extra action granted by Leadership then the +1 stat bump, but YMMV.
Jarimy123
12/28/2009, 10:59
In your 400 point example though you wouldn't need the extra action that you would get for leadership if you dropped 1 fire demon and put contingency plan and another 18 in feats on. It's not worth it either way, Fire Demons suck really bad even with Sutur in low point games
Personally I don't think they work well at all in 300 or 400 point games. The Fire Demons get destroyed so quickly leaving Sutur as a one man army without any feats most of the time. If you use either sutur in lower point games I wouldn't even use Fire Demons. But in a higher point game where they actually can swarm I think it's better.
the SR is pretty good IMO, for the points you are spending you get a ton of clix of life and can dish out some good damage. I've only used him once though and it was a 1000 point game of mish mash between a buddy and i.
anonym0use
12/28/2009, 11:29
In smaller builds CP is worthwhile, and you will need all the help you can get.
I played against the SR Surtur in a 4-500 point game and my Thor Girl with a heavy object just wrecked him. My opening attack did 6 (or 7?) damage, and he really couldn't hit much after that. He took out his share of points when I got him to his last click attack spike, but overall I've been unimpressed with the figure's performance in small games.
I really think in Large games, it's best to combine Surtur & the Fire Demons with Rock Trolls and Ulik. The Fire Demons have someone to taxi, and Surtur isn't as big of a target with other figures on the board.
As mentioned, Asgardian Warriors and Valkyries will also get a boost from Ragnarok Surtur, and can easily fill out a team. Take 2 modular 400 point teams and add them together for a good time. :)
Jarimy123
12/28/2009, 11:38
Nanoarmor has become a must have on a lot of my forces that have a figure over 150 points lately. There's just too many meteorites being played in my area not to have one, plus there is a ton of super strength in HoT.
I would definitely try to work nanoarmor on either of the sutur figs.
RavenProject
12/28/2009, 11:57
I played against the SR Surtur in a 4-500 point game and my Thor Girl with a heavy object just wrecked him. My opening attack did 6 (or 7?) damage, and he really couldn't hit much after that.
Keep in mind that you were pretty fortunate. With Surtur's 17 Defense and Shape Change, Thor Girl's 9 Attack is only going to connect ~28% of the time.
-J
Denim Demon
12/28/2009, 12:00
I played RagSurt and some fire demons in a 500 point 4 player game on the antimonitor map and they did okay.The horrible movement on the demons is pretty darn lame but ragsurts end dial poisen power works very nicely.
Jarimy123
12/28/2009, 12:21
Yea I mean who has a 6 movement in this game? Especially someone who is a flyer. You would think GD would think "hmmmm if they carry someone they get a 4 movement." I guess that's what the WP is for, but still. They should of at least gotten a 7 move so they could charge 4 squares.
commandercool
12/28/2009, 12:28
I've been using Kid Devils with Trigon since they came out, and they don't even share any keywords. Try packing a bunch of them and see if you can actually get Ragnarok Surtur to do something by Pouncing on ranged pieces to tie them up. Hellbaby used to work great with Trigon, but maybe not so much without the Mystics team ability to copy.
gatharion
12/28/2009, 12:30
233 Ragnarok Surtur
68 Son of Surtur
33 Fire Demon
33 Fire Demon
33 Fire Demon
400[/B]
In your 400 point example though you wouldn't need the extra action that you would get for leadership if you dropped 1 fire demon and put contingency plan and another 18 in feats on.
Rag Surtur + Shellhead + Protected
Son of Surtur + CP
Fire Demon
Fire Demon
jak sacul
12/28/2009, 12:39
I really don't get the lack of love for the fire demons. They seem to be perfect generics to me. Not too pricey (unlike the rock trolls) and they don't pay points for powers that aren't needed (asguardian warriors). They are 33 points of solid pain as far as generics are concerned. They don't need to carry, that lowers their speed to a measly four. They are better served by moving the full six, then pushing to charge en mass to drastically harm one figure. 3 fire demons are three attacks with 3 damage and 11 attack. For under a hundred points.
More likely than not, when I have a generic, I want it to be a piece threatening enough to force my opponent to push some bigger figures to take them out. Willpower is far more useful for this than toughness is. Every time I've played them, the fire demons have done great.
The only problem I really have with them, is that I have trouble evening out a team with them when I put Armor Piercing on SoS and camo on Surtur.
Something I want to try in a 500
Son of Surtur + Armor Piercing
Surtur + Camo
Fire Demon X5
Malekith + Compel
Malekith's TK and ability to ignore figures for MC really helps the fire demons dish the damage. Compel the fire demons with their low defense and have them push, push, push. Surtur plays clean up while SoS pushes onto his special power., making the fire demons MORE dangerous (one click penetrating possible per fire demon) and his poion will make people think twice before basing him.
Edit: ####. Messed up my math on that one 10 points over.
anonym0use
12/28/2009, 12:57
Keep in mind that you were pretty fortunate. With Surtur's 17 Defense and Shape Change, Thor Girl's 9 Attack is only going to connect ~28% of the time.
-J
She may have had some Monster Hunter/Inside Information help (I can't remember which, though I think it was the latter). And I now remember she was using a 3d soda machine, so it was 7 clicks of damage. But yeah, you're right. Shape Change will make it somewhat harder to target him.
My point was - a lucky shot or a strong opening attack really, really hurts him, I think moreso than some other figures if he pushed past that Imperv.
Mr. Pilkington
12/28/2009, 12:59
Something I want to try in a 500
Son of Surtur + Armor Piercing
Surtur + Camo
Fire Demon X5
Malekith + Compel
That isn't 500 points. You end up at 510. Personally I'd drop Compel and a Fire Demon to add a generic Valkyrie to try to keep Surtur around. I played the SR without Fortitude in a 600 point game and had serious issues getting my money's worth after he got hit (the front-dial Toughness really is an issue, but Outwit is worse to a giant).
Mr. Pilkington
12/28/2009, 13:02
My point was - a lucky shot or a strong opening attack really, really hurts him, I think moreso than some other figures if he pushed past that Imperv.
I can attest to this. My opponent used Outwit on the Shape Change and just let the Toughness absorb one of the damage from his first hit on my Surtur. A regular hit for 5 damage (sad that 5 is becoming a regular hit) blew right past the Impervious and put Surtur into his decline.
anonym0use
12/28/2009, 13:05
I really don't get the lack of love for the fire demons. They seem to be perfect generics to me. Not too pricey (unlike the rock trolls) and they don't pay points for powers that aren't needed (asguardian warriors). They are 33 points of solid pain as far as generics are concerned. They don't need to carry, that lowers their speed to a measly four. They are better served by moving the full six, then pushing to charge en mass to drastically harm one figure. 3 fire demons are three attacks with 3 damage and 11 attack. For under a hundred points.
More likely than not, when I have a generic, I want it to be a piece threatening enough to force my opponent to push some bigger figures to take them out. Willpower is far more useful for this than toughness is. Every time I've played them, the fire demons have done great.
The only problem I really have with them, is that I have trouble evening out a team with them when I put Armor Piercing on SoS and camo on Surtur.
Something I want to try in a 500
Son of Surtur + Armor Piercing
Surtur + Camo
Fire Demon X5
Malekith + Compel
Malekith's TK and ability to ignore figures for MC really helps the fire demons dish the damage. Compel the fire demons with their low defense and have them push, push, push. Surtur plays clean up while SoS pushes onto his special power., making the fire demons MORE dangerous (one click penetrating possible per fire demon) and his poion will make people think twice before basing him.
Great team idea! Compel is a great way to add mobility to a team or surprise an opponent by attacking with a figure that you've already used that turn. Malekiths middling 9 av will match well to the 16's and 15s of the demons.
As an aside, I'm wanting to play SI Punisher + Monster Hunter to do a Chaingun attack on giant Surtur, and follow up by one-shotting as many adjacent Fire Demons as I possibly can.
I have nothing against the Fire Demons - they can do well with the right strategy, but I don't think they hold up as well as other minion/Generics.
Mr. Pilkington
12/28/2009, 13:29
I agree that they don't hold up too well. I found that generic vs. generic in this set comes down to first hit. I saw an Asgardian Warrior paste a Fire Demon (due to knock-back) and saw a Fire Demon paste an Asgardian Warrior (due to good BCF). The Demons are more vulnerable to range though (a generic valkyrie shot one to death int the same game).
Jarimy123
12/28/2009, 13:29
Rock trolls also get the same bonuses with their leader involved, but they have 7 clicks of life for only 12 more points. I just think in lower points games they get killed way too fast. I could be wrong, but from what I've seen they either get KOd right away or take 3 clicks and are basically worthless.
So far Jericho w/Lazarus Pit and Surtur rank pretty high on the cheese list
jak sacul
12/28/2009, 14:58
That isn't 500 points. You end up at 510. Personally I'd drop Compel and a Fire Demon to add a generic Valkyrie to try to keep Surtur around. I played the SR without Fortitude in a 600 point game and had serious issues getting my money's worth after he got hit (the front-dial Toughness really is an issue, but Outwit is worse to a giant).
Yeah, I messed up my math a bit on that one. I think the compel is actually more important to the team than Armor piercing is. (BLAARGH! I REALLY need to figure out a viable way to use SoS + armor piercing.)
Valkerie wouldn't be able to do anything with SR Surtur.
anonym0use
12/28/2009, 15:04
So far Jericho w/Lazarus Pit and Surtur rank pretty high on the cheese list
I'm not sure I follow this, but then I'm not sure I want to either.
Vevilaughs
12/28/2009, 15:09
Welcome to another Special Power Spotlight.
Now compare SR Surtur to Ragnarok Surtur:
ha201 V Ragnarok Surtur
Team: Power Cosmic
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 233
Keywords: Asgardian, Deity, Monster, Warrior
m-boota-fistd-normalg-giant1010185101017481116481016389173891837917379173791536915469154KOKOKOKO
(Attack) Inferno: Ragnarok Surtur can use Poison. Damage dealt this way is penetrating damage
(Damage) Eternal Flame: Give Ragnarok Surtur a power action when he occupies an opponent's starting area. Any other character Ragnarok Surtur can draw a line of fire to is dealt 1 unavoidable damage. If this places a second action token on Ragnarok Surtur, deal him 1 unavoidable damage.
Ragnarok Surtur doesn't need feats to be effective.
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/units/ha201.jpg" class="imageleft" style="width:100px;" />With the SR players may want to equip Fortitude to keep his damage reducers safe, among a number of other feats. The brick figure's Power Cosmic TA goes a long way in making this a five star figure. Thanks to Inferno players don’t need Armor Piercing to the end dial make Poison stick. The opening damage value of 5, with Super Strength means he'll hit hard, compared to the risk of a poor B/C/F with the SR.
Eternal Flame seems like a great power, though it’s only for 3 clicks starting at the middle of his dial, and he’ll need to cross the field AND be in an opponents start zone for it to be use in a two player game. Eternal Flame could be a lot of fun, and easier to use in multi-player events.
Battlefield Tactics:
Why would you use Fortitude on a Figure with the Power Cosmic TA? Just to stay safe from Exploit Weakness? Seems like an expensive investment.
I would consider Swingline on him though... just for the extra movement and it could be used to drag a flyer down to the ground so it would be harder for them to get away from the slower moving fire demons.
anonym0use
12/28/2009, 15:12
Look again at the quote you posted.
"With the SR players may want to equip Fortitude ..."
I was specifically comparing Ragnarok Surtur to the SR Surtur (who I think needs Fortitude). I realize I left it open for some confusion. I really believe the BiBtB figure doesn't need feats, though like Jairmy123 pointed out Nanoarmor is a good choice.
Just a quick idea I had:
233 HA201 Ragnarok Surtur
10 AWF008 Shellhead
8 MUF102 Protected
4 MUF003 Inside Information
6 2099F002 Nanoarmor
38 HA012 Valkyrie
10 SIF104 Invigorate
37 HA014 Asgardian Warrior
37 HA014 Asgardian Warrior
6 MUB002 Lila Cheney
6 MUB002 Lila Cheney
395
Move up the Agardian Warriors, then use Support/Invigorate of Valkyrie to remove tokens. Use the Lila Cheney's as tie up pieces or hang one back to use the Theme (Asgardian) Probability given. Just a quick idea.
Awesome write up by the way. I always look forward to the articles posted on here.
Great article!
I layed Surtur+ 5 Fire Demons the night we opened our HOT bricks and it was pretty wicked. I'd really like to try it with Ragnarok Surtur now....
Vevilaughs
12/28/2009, 15:31
Look again at the quote you posted.
"With the SR players may want to equip Fortitude ..."
I was specifically comparing Ragnarok Surtur to the SR Surtur (who I think needs Fortitude). I realize I left it open for some confusion. I really believe the BiBtB figure doesn't need feats, though like Jairmy123 pointed out Nanoarmor is a good choice.
See... I'm slow.
Great article!
I layed Surtur+ 5 Fire Demons the night we opened our HOT bricks and it was pretty wicked. I'd really like to try it with Ragnarok Surtur now....
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: ummmmm
SevenBlueSeven
12/28/2009, 16:11
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to anonym0use again. *sigh*
Nanoarmor has become a must have on a lot of my forces that have a figure over 150 points lately. There's just too many meteorites being played in my area not to have one, plus there is a ton of super strength in HoT.
I would definitely try to work nanoarmor on either of the sutur figs.
Unfortunately, Nanoarmor requires the :g-starburst: damage symbol and both Surtur figures are giants. It looks like they're too big to wear Nanoarmor.
commandercool
12/28/2009, 19:18
Unfortunately, Nanoarmor requires the :g-starburst: damage symbol and both Surtur figures are giants. It looks like they're too big to wear Nanoarmor.
WHEN WILL THEY MAKE A NANOARMOR FOR THE VOLUPTUOUS MONSTER? WHEN WILL THEY LEARN?
Jarimy123
12/28/2009, 21:02
Wow. Totally correct. And a guy at our venue used it on Rags Sutur the first week of events and won. We both went 3-0 but he scored more points and we didn't play a 4th round. Thanks for pointing that out!
I'm not sure I follow this, but then I'm not sure I want to either.
Jericho possesses X, X is now your team's ally at the begining of the turn Surtur can use his SP to K.O. that ally, and because Jericho has Lazarus Pit he may be placed on the card after he dies. Surtur can K.O. ANY NUMBER OF ALLIES although the bonus Surtur gets is still subject to the rule of three. I can't believe that it took a Marvel figure to actual make Jericho a piece of "cheese".
gatharion
12/29/2009, 00:17
Jericho possesses X, X is now your team's ally at the begining of the turn Surtur can use his SP to K.O. that ally, and because Jericho has Lazarus Pit he may be placed on the card after he dies. Surtur can K.O. ANY NUMBER OF ALLIES although the bonus Surtur gets is still subject to the rule of three. I can't believe that it took a Marvel figure to actual make Jericho a piece of "cheese".
You missed a spot
that have both the Asgardian and Monster keywords
You missed a spot
Yeah, well it's still a pretty sound tactic for taking down Fire Demons, Surtur, Ragnarok Surtur, Son of Surtur, and other Asgardian monsters.
Shield001
12/29/2009, 00:51
RagS may not need a lot of feats to be good BUT
Prerequisites: Deity keyword.
Choose a character. The character modifies its attack value by +1 when attacking a character without the Deity or Cosmic keyword that has a point value less than its own.
this feat is perfect for RagS, being the center of your team, he is going to need better than a 10 attack, and this card basically gives him +1 attack his whole dial.
I also like to use C-Plan on Son of Surt. (well I will once I get him...)
To make the demons better they should have given them better than a 6 movement. Even with some gorundeds to carry that give them a 4 most figures would be better off walking.
Also RagS has the Asgardian and Deity Keywords, so technically he gives the Asgardian warriors and Valkyries their sp bonus
Jarimy123
12/29/2009, 08:26
Yeah, well it's still a pretty sound tactic for taking down Fire Demons, Surtur, Ragnarok Surtur, Son of Surtur, and other Asgardian monsters.
Yea and against anyone else it's the dumbest team ever. Jericho cheese? Thanks for the laugh, I needed that. "Other Asgardian monster" = who exactly are you trying to make up to make yourself not look dumb?
Yea and against anyone else it's the dumbest team ever. Jericho cheese? Thanks for the laugh, I needed that. "Other Asgardian monster" = who exactly are you trying to make up to make yourself not look dumb?
There is nothing dumb about it your spending 153 + feats for Surtur and I came up with a solid tactic to take him out of the fight. So as long as people continue to play Surtur or any of the Asgardian Monsters my strategy for dealing with them will never go away.
Jarimy123
12/29/2009, 10:09
You're countering that figure with the exact same figure, and it's one of the most situational tactics I've ever seen. You are using Jericho, a mostly worthless figure, strictly to hope that your Sutur gets to his clicks that you can use his SP to remove figures with those keywords, and then hope that you can possess them with Jericho. Are you being serious? It's still December not April right? You are seriously saying that Jericho and Sutur is a solid combination? Did someone slip acid in my morning water?
Mr. Pilkington
12/29/2009, 10:21
"Other Asgardian monster" = who exactly are you trying to make up to make yourself not look dumb?
Well, Fenris Wolf for starters. And Ulik and his Rock Trolls. It is still incredibly situational, but there are "other" Asgardian Monsters. I'm not really trying to defend the build per se, just list its targets.
Jarimy123
12/29/2009, 10:34
Well, Fenris Wolf for starters. And Ulik and his Rock Trolls. It is still incredibly situational, but there are "other" Asgardian Monsters. I'm not really trying to defend the build per se, just list its targets.
I heard ya, rep for those.
I don't see how anyone can possibly defend that build and call it cheese. I am just at a loss. Am I just crazy here?
gatharion
12/29/2009, 10:39
The idea of it being called "cheese" is what makes it so hilarious.
Mr. Pilkington
12/29/2009, 10:42
I'm not seeing any crazy from you. I can't call it cheese as it is so situational *and* it would work exactly once. I'd be very disappointed to see my Fenris go up in my opponent's Surtur's smoke, but you can be sure I'd immediately KO Jericho after that and watch for the combo in the future.
Jarimy123
12/29/2009, 10:46
I mean Sutur doesn't even have that power on his first click. What is Jericho going to be doing while you wait til Sutur gets to that click? Sitting around perplexing? For 126 points? You do realize you have already lost the game at that point, even if I am using all monster/asgardians.
Mr. Pilkington
12/29/2009, 10:51
If anything I'd probably use Deadman instead. Sure Jericho has the Perplex, but Deadman has a better defense, Super Senses and Mystics all going for his survivability. Plus you could give you own Surtur Camouflage or Protected in 300 points.
This *might* work in 400+ points if you have good enough support, but I can see people just ignoring Jericho/Deadman and picking Surtur apart. The chances of landing on Surtur's SP *and* being able to possess an enemy figure with appropriate keywords to instantly KO them are just too low.
gatharion
12/29/2009, 11:01
I've tried playing Deadman a few times and pulling off a successful possession was always a bit iffy. I'd never plan a whole strategy around it.
Jarimy123
12/29/2009, 11:19
Jericho/deadman are good for one thing - high point games where you know people are going to show up with collosal figs. And possibly theme teams, I guess.
Done with the threadjacking. Just was stunned to see that gimmick be called cheese.
Neverfate
12/29/2009, 11:24
Nanoarmor has become a must have on a lot of my forces that have a figure over 150 points lately. There's just too many meteorites being played in my area not to have one, plus there is a ton of super strength in HoT.
I would definitely try to work nanoarmor on either of the sutur figs.
I'm a little of topic here, but:
Gosh, I haven't seen the meteorite played in years. No one I play with uses special objects really. I forgot how broken they can be.
On topic: I've seen the surtur/rag surtur played with the fire demons. It just never seems to work out that well. It's not a total failue, but "lose more than win" seems to happen.
anonym0use
12/29/2009, 11:41
For a split second, I thought Vamroc might be on to something: what if you mind controlled an opposing Surtur and another opposing character (we'll say Ulik) as part of a dual target attack?
At that point you could KO Ulik immediately, if the opposing Surtur was on the SP, or even if you had a Surtur on the SP. Then I realized the power had to be used at the beginning of your turn. Ugh.
EXPENDABLE RESOURCES: At the beginning of your turn, you may KO any number of friendly characters that have both the Asgardian and Monster keywords. For each character KO'd this way, Surtur can use Exploit Weakness and modifies his damage value by +1 until end of turn.
So it wouldn't work with Mind Control. Posession might work, but the trick requires way more work than is worth the payoff. Jericho/Deadman are situationally useful to begin with, much less trying to rig them to work with Surtur.
I give vamroc points for trying though - it is clever and mean, even if it's not overly effective.
Jarimy123
12/29/2009, 12:05
I'm all for people coming up with new ideas and trying to figure out the next big combo, but to call Jericho the new cheese is just laughable
Rurouni KJS
12/29/2009, 12:34
EDIT: already covered.
Shield001
12/29/2009, 12:59
Yeah Y2J cant even hold on to the tag titles wihen his partner is one the biggest guys in the game, and what a whiner.....
wait we were talking about Jericho the wrestler right?
Badgerbite
12/29/2009, 19:36
The idea of it being called "cheese" is what makes it so hilarious.
Swiss cheese, that cheese team is full of holes.
The week after next (01-11-10) our venue's game is a "Masters and Commanders" 400 point build. The idea is to use minion type teams, a leader and grunts. With what I have in my collection the best thing I have come up with is Ragnorok Surter and 4 Fire Demons. I'll throw some feats in but as was mentioned I haven't seen this minion team work out so well...
Quebbster
01/01/2010, 09:11
I may have a Son of Surtur incoming, so now I want to get some use out of my Fire Demons. Here's what I'm thinking:
SR Surtur 153
+ Fortitude 25
+ Camouflage 8
Son of Surtur 68
+ Armor Piercing 10
Fire Demon 33
Fire Demon 33
Fire Demon 33
Fire Demon 33
Fire Demon 33
Fire Demon 33
Fire Demon 33
495 points - not sure what I should spend the last 5 points on. Lucky Break for Surtur maybe?
Surtur needs Fortitude and Camouflage to keep him safe, and AP on SoS seems like a solid investment - I did consider Contingency plan, but with the sheer number of figures I figured I'm better off using the actions. Armor Piercing does make Fan the Flames even more nasty though.
For BFCs, I'll definitely go with some range reducers. Exhaustion seems like a good way to slow the opponent down - only Son of Surtur is affected on my team, barring Outwits. In the same vein, Malice could be a lot of fun. Grounded might slow the opponent down some.
And one more thing: If I play Ragnarok Surtur and win map roll, I'm picking the Space map. It's win-win - reduces ranged attacks, increases the speed, and lets Ragnarok Surtur deal tons of damage with the Eternal Flame since lines of fire are wide open.
necrodog
01/01/2010, 11:41
Thanks for the usual well-thought-out and articulate article.
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