Taking Down Asgard

[CheeseWiz]

Taking Down Asgard

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=672&pictureid=8010
In a set featuring Thor and his buddies, it is not surprising to see so many ‘God-like’ figures with awesome stats. In fact, there are over 18 figures in this set that boast a 12 attack, an 18 Defense, or even both!. So, how does one crack through the armor of the Gods? Click ‘Full Story’ to find out!

[CheeseWiz]

With such high attack values and massive damage output, many figures in this set act can easily one-shot KO an opposing figure. At the point cost, however, most of these figures are technically Tent-pole figures. As such, the tactics in taking down any tent-pole figure will usually work against these guys.

However, there are a few exceptions. In the past, Tent-poles usually costed a bit more, featured decent top stats that went quickly south, and usually featured a fairly obvious Achilles heel (i.e. Icons Supes, or the old Ult Thor). Thor’s buddies are a bit more maximized in terms of point cost, stats and powers, and feature a bell shaped rear-end dial upswing. In short, Thor is going to bring down the thunder. Best not be holding onto any pointy metal thingies.

So, how does one lay the smack down on the big bads of HoT? Hopefully, below you will find some helpful tricks and strategies for the novice through expert player. In the comments section, be sure to include anything helpful that you’ve found. One thing this article will not do is to suggest things that don’t come at a cost when designing your team. In other words, I won’t cover things like BFC’s, or the meteorite.

First, get inside your opponents head. Obviously, we are building a team to counter a specific threat. Every build has a counter-build. What we want to do is to build a well-rounded team that will handle a variety of threats, so LAMP, being the obvious build choice against any tent pole, is out. Still, most of Thor’s buddies sport damage reducers. High AV‘s and insane Defenses. So, we know have to look for away to get around those obstacles.

Fortitude on your opposing team is your best friend. Always build around the assumption that a Tentpole is going to sport Fortitude. It's a surefire way for your opponent to be at a 25pt disadvantage. In other words, don’t rely on a team that is using Exploit Weakness as your main strategy to counter damage reducers (sorry, Gamora!). Don’t purposely bring in a character for the sole use of outwit. If you have it, that’s fine. You can still use it to be annoying. Counter flight, or even better: Indomitable.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=672&pictureid=8011
Have at least one character with psychic blast. There is one extremely good non-Asgardian Psychic Blasters in HoT: Moonstone. Actually, Moonstone is probably one of the best RS/PB pieces in the game (before that, SI Annihulus). Particularly, with her very useful TA. Thunderbolt her to Kabuki and reap the benefits of stealth. Thor can’t hurt what he can’t see. Or, if the Warriors Three are sitting across from you, Crusaders or Kingdom Come might be a better choices to use, to help them keep their distance.

Have a way to increase your stats. Most of the big hitters in HoT all have an 18 defense. That’s a 19 from range, and a roll of a 9 to hit with Moonstone’s 10 AV. Perplex or a feat like opportunist or cont. plan are necessary unless you roll like yahtzee.

Tie-up pieces. While I don’t like the concept of handing over points to your opponent, when you are playing against a powerhouse figure, you are going to lose pieces. In that regard, it is better to not give your opponent the choice on who he is going to target. That is where you need to have at least one damage avoiding character on your membership roster. Start recruiting today! Try using a character that has multiple chances at evading an attack. A Skrull with supersenses and shape change is nice. However, Venom with super senses, shape change, and the abilities to use entangle, takedown and L/C to get into place, is probably one of the best tie-up pieces in the game. Like everything with chance however, he is only as good as you roll.

Lastly, have a way to get your opponents tie-up pieces out of the way. This step is crucial. Otherwise, Thor will hammer your tie-up piece while you are struggling to take his out. By the time you are able to attack, it is too late. Breaking away is too risky. Therefore, I recommend simply to move the offending pieces out of the way. Maneuver is easily the best for this, even if it is cliché. For more of a challenge, use force-blast (use the two together for even more groans). Penance is difficult to use, but has the nice ability to force-blast from 6 squares away. If you are lucky, you can place a barrier around the piece you need to get away from. Songbird is great for that. Also, don’t underestimate Mind Control.

Putting the team together, we need (300pt build):
1 psychic blaster
1 tie-up piece
At least 1 way of bumping up combat values
And a way to move around the opponents pieces

This is the schematic to follow when coming up with your team. Build the team to suit your playstyle. The team I've built below will cause some controversy, as it isn't the most competitive, but it follows the criteria described, and with a little luck should take down even the Mighty Thor.
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=672&pictureid=8012
Try an 'almost' comic-accurate theme team against the forces of Asgard:
HoT Moonstone + Thunderbolts, Opportunist 91
HoT Venom + Entangle, Takedown, 83
HoT Penance, 53
V Sin Bullseye, 65
Val Cooper Pog, 7 (sorry, no more room for feats).
TTL 299.

The idea is to give the Big Bad a very limited choice as to who to shoot at, while whittling away at his/her dial. The key is positioning, of course. But, Venom should be able to tie down the opposition, while Moonstone and Lester snipe away at range. If anyone gets too close, Penance should be able to get into position to force blast them away, or perhaps get in a lick himself (unlikely). Lastly, while not thematically accurate, Val can sneak around to block LoF, and get the occasional ping in at 6 range or act as a one hit meat shield. Keep Moonstone alive and in a position to PB, even if it means using the entirety of your team to tie the opposing Asgardian. If you can do that, you should have a Fallen God on your hands before time is up. Good luck!

What Teams have you used successfully to take down the Gods? What were the key elements? Comments?

Lastly, we want to thank the Thunderbolts for stopping by this week’s article to help out. They also wanted to announce that will be the feature for next week‘s read. Be sure to check it out! And many thanks for reading!

[mr-coffin]

The Destroyer does an excellent job of killing Asgardians, especially with little nobodies to feed him health mid-dial. Also I find Karnilla to be cheaper than Moonstone and almost as dangerous to Thor types.

[creator9000]

400 pts
HoT cap + alias
Av gaintman
Av Scarlet witch
SI iron man
thunderbolts on all

won me two games against all asgardians until ultron and m-11 took them down

[SFBull]

I took down a team of Thor w/ fortitude, C Valkyrie and 3x Asgardian warriors with a team of 3x M-11 (each with Autoregen) and 3x Gorillaman. I used the gorillas a tie-up pieces while the M-11's did the heavy lifting. The real up side was that Thor could not 1 hit any of the figs, even with a heavy object; so I could always get a shot at regenerating if he landed a solid shot.

[SevenBlueSeven]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to CheeseWiz again."

Another good write-up.

For those of us that don't have a HoT Venom yet, we can use Plasmus with Entangle and Camoflague. Throw in Infiltrate for another 2 points and be able to move around for free.

I agree, Karnilla is a nice alternative and easier to get a hold of.

Allen the Alien with Takedown and Lunge is another fun one for tie up.

[Pepsirox08]

psycho pirate!!!

[theboywholived]

Psychic blast is a great idea. I also really like characters like Chang Tzu and the Riddler who can knock down an opponent's attack or damage value. Great thoughts though, I see too many people freak out when they don't have outwit on their teams.

[anonym0use]

I love this article. It doesn't really need to be HoT centric either, especially:

"Fortitude on your opposing team is your best friend."


I recently laughed at someone who played 3 figures with Fortitude, because I had no Outwit on my team. NONE.

Of course with the 75 point handicap I still got beaten.

For your team, I'd reccomend putting Opportunist on Bullesye - He can be carried to help build up tokens, and he can let other friendly, adjacent figures use Op Tokens as well. He pushes off Running Shot onto WP so he should keep the feat. Putting Op on Moonstone means you'll need to leave her in your start zone for a few turns to put tokens on her card.

[Tim Drake]

Pretty decent article, but once again, I just don't get the need to lean on feat cards.

More importantly... I don't get what Ice from the JLI is doing among a bunch of Asgardians in the OP image.

[Gigas]

Cheesewiz always delivers great articles. I don't want to brag or anything but this is the same tactic I've been messing around with lately...Wiz just happened to bring everyone's thoughts out in an articulate and humorous way...Kudos. I have to say that karnilla, venom and moonstone have been pretty effective against the Asgardians. I have also had moderate success with Cap, ultron and penance for 299. Keep up the great work Wiz! Rep to you sir.

[anonym0use]

Norse goddess? Deity perhaps?

[saturnflight]

Your timing is perfect; those new to tie-up strategies have two 'Best at...' articles on the front page for Leap/Climb and Phasing!

Very solid article, one of your best!

[RavenProject]

More importantly... I don't get what Ice from the JLI is doing among a bunch of Asgardians in the OP image.
Tora Olafsdotter is also from Norway. :)

-J

[Soul]

Taking Down Asgard

?!?!?!

Such blasphemy would never even cross my mind!!!


Now, off to actually reading more than just the headline of this article...

[sphin]

That image comes from the "Comic Book Characters Grouped by Religious Affiliation" page on Adherents.com. A very interesting read, actually.

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html

[anonym0use]

Have a way to increase your stats.

Vendetta helps with this. I'd put Vendetta on Moonstone or better: Venom, a figure who can easily take out someone twice his cost.

[Tim Drake]

Tora Olafsdotter is also from Norway. :)

-J

Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh. :cross-eye:cross-eye:cross-eye

I knew I didn't get enough sleep.

And I'm rather embarrassed that I hadn't yet thought of playing Ice with Asgardians... Sigh... Thanks! :)

[Iago]

Can't say I've ever heard the phrase "T-bolt to Crusaders" before...

Does charge's option of ignoring knockback neuter force blast as a separation-maker?

[larthosgrr8]

my way of taking down asgard is to just out position them, and make my rolls! thor is a beast but with no imperv, not that scary at all. sif is my do it all girl in this set. i use her to carry in balder the brave or ulik and have at it! who're you gonna hit?? sif who hits for 5 straight through or balder/ulik who hit for just as much!

this set is awesome but if you position well, can be taken down pretty easy! cheese, good article! i love how you spolighted regular humans figs instead of other asgardians !!

[t4st]

In non-restricted, my favorite thing to do is TK ULtron up and Nova Blast all those little Asgardians. The look on your opponenant when they realise they cant use Protected and they're about to eat 4 damage is almost as good as when you push the next turn and Pulse Wave again and it all but Neuters mister Odinson.

[PONX]

Theme Team Soldier

Crisis: Green Lantern + Protected= 165
HoT: Captain America + Contingency Plan= 84
HoT: Captain America + Opportunist= 82
HoT: Rocket racoon

Equal---> 396

Even though the gods sport high AVs, it's not a "walk in the park" to shoot DVs of 20 plus. especially when you have a PCer annoying the prayers out of them.

A tiny 300 point theme team Robot

HoT: Ultron + Protected + Super Nova= 192
Ult: Sentinel Captain (LE) + Contingency Plan= 41
CD: Red Tornado (Vet) = 67

Equal --> 300

Now you're sporting an increase chance of, not only, hitting first but hitting multiple enemies with one devestating attack. One can also use the sentinel to the fullest extent, C-Plan and the shield TA makes it an extremely versitle perplexer, making it a snap to hit those high DV.

[Vevilaughs]

With the amount of damage reducers in this set, Armor Piercing is almost a must. It just makes sure you at least get a little distance out of your attacks, and makes your attacks stick in case your piece takes damage.

Besides Armor Piercing, Incap against a tentpole lets you control the flow of the board. While I had trouble hitting Volgstaff in my last game (even with an AV perplex up to an 11), Incap did help slow him down and got him off his 18 DV clicks.

[CheeseWiz]

Pretty decent article, but once again, I just don't get the need to lean on feat cards.

More importantly... I don't get what Ice from the JLI is doing among a bunch of Asgardians in the OP image.

Good point. I am not much of a feat card user, but I find that when I write this articles, I typically write them to include the best feat for the character. I'll keep this in mind for the next write-up. Thanks!

Cheesewiz always delivers great articles. I don't want to brag or anything but this is the same tactic I've been messing around with lately...Wiz just happened to bring everyone's thoughts out in an articulate and humorous way...Kudos. I have to say that karnilla, venom and moonstone have been pretty effective against the Asgardians. I have also had moderate success with Cap, ultron and penance for 299. Keep up the great work Wiz! Rep to you sir.

My favorite post by far. You others are slacking off!

Your timing is perfect; those new to tie-up strategies have two 'Best at...' articles on the front page for Leap/Climb and Phasing!

Very solid article, one of your best!

Thanks! You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to saturnflight again. Arrgh! Will hit you again soon!

Have a way to increase your stats.

Vendetta helps with this. I'd put Vendetta on Moonstone or better: Venom, a figure who can easily take out someone twice his cost.

Good point. I will remember that for the T-bolts article. Pus, it helps his starting 9av a little more dangerous.

Can't say I've ever heard the phrase "T-bolt to Crusaders" before...

Does charge's option of ignoring knockback neuter force blast as a separation-maker?

Yes. Therefore T-bolt to Crusaders where appropriate, and not when Balder is on the board.

With the amount of damage reducers in this set, Armor Piercing is almost a must. It just makes sure you at least get a little distance out of your attacks, and makes your attacks stick in case your piece takes damage.

Besides Armor Piercing, Incap against a tentpole lets you control the flow of the board. While I had trouble hitting Volgstaff in my last game (even with an AV perplex up to an 11), Incap did help slow him down and got him off his 18 DV clicks.

While I would normally agree with you, I'm finding that Incap just isn't as effective as it once was, with so many PC and Quintessence, plus many characters sporting Indomitable. True, Incap will slow them down, but it just won't get the damage through as much anymore. I won't purposefully build with Incap in mind anymore.

___

Work and a realmsquake kept me from looking and responding until now, but thanks everyone for some excellent comments and suggestions! Keep 'em coming, and thanks again for reading!

[Soul]

Now that I've actually read it: very nice article!

Other powers that come to mind for your proposed strategy could be TK and Prob. Control.

IMO, Telekinesis is obviously very helpful in

a) covering the distance between your figures and the targets, which is even more important if you're playing against long range figures with RS. Getting the first hit in on a tentpole and knocking him down to slightly more moderate combat stats can take away a lot of the pain involved.

b) TK lets you extract your figures from the "danger zone" and thus deny your opponent some chances to choose his targets, which falls in line with your point of limiting the opponent's options.

c) TK can be used to move opposing figures from a distance. Tricks like separating support figures from the main attackers, singling out opposing figures or the good ole "bring the enemy to your figure, instead of moving up the board yourself" can work well with the strategy you had in mind for your article.

I know, TK doesn't come exactly cheap in the current sets (at least not compared to the old pit-crews), but it's most of the time still worth the investment.

Prob. Control is so versatile that it's always good to have. Increasing your own chances to hit or increase the damage potential of BCF rolls and it can be used on your opponent's turn as well. One of the biggest advantages of PC has always been that you basically get two uses out of it per round. Even though the gods of asgard very rarely miss, letting them reroll still generates a second chance for the dice to come up with snake eyes, which hurts tent-pole much more than swarm teams, for example.

Apart from long range Psychic Blast, I always found BCF quite difficult to deal with, when playing tentpoles. It's such a cheap power and it can still be devastating for a tent-pole figure. When choosing tie-up figures, I always try to get BCF into the mix (esp. if I also have PC on the team). If it's for some reason not possible, the tie-up should still be able to break INV without having the back-up of Perplex et al. Those support powers are usually too important to sort of waste them on a weenie.

Along those line: often players don't consider the sequence of attacks well enough. I.e. they waste their support powers on figures with little chances to connect with the target and when they come around to their main attacker, stuff like PC or Perplex has been spent already.

Okay, so much for now. I've said too much already. Fortunately, my faith in Asgard is strong and I know that no enemy will ever manage to (permanently) conquer its splendid halls.

;)

[AEONFLUX]

That image comes from the "Comic Book Characters Grouped by Religious Affiliation" page on Adherents.com. A very interesting read, actually.

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html


Legion of Vegan and Animal Rights Super-Heroes


I doubt they would work well with the leather clad ultimate X-men, lol.

[Cyaegha]

A good alternative to Venom is R Copperhead from Origins : full dial of Plasticity and Combat Reflexes, 3 natural damage and Incapacitate.

Horrible as a tie-up piece, despite his 9 starting AV.
Gotham City keyword has him make an horrible pair with AA Riddler (Perplex doing - 2 AV/DV and alternate Incapacitate on 2 targets at 6 Range? yes please, despite being EXPENSIVE!!) and OotS Batman (yreha, I'm THAT annoying).
Had to test that to see if this team can take down Gods.

Another annoying Psychic Blast piece is V Enchanteress from Legacy : Supersenses+Shape Change+Pysblast+Phasing/Teleport+long range and 2 targets...too bad, she only does 2 damage...

[SLVRSR4]

That image comes from the "Comic Book Characters Grouped by Religious Affiliation" page on Adherents.com. A very interesting read, actually.

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_collage.html

Thanks for the Link...I sense some religion based theme teams on the horizon. I've been mentally compiling a list of Jewish characters for some time now just waiting for a good time to spring them on an opponent.

[CheeseWiz]

Snip

Good points, all of them. I recently played a game where none of my opponent's big characters could hit anything. But, the cheaper tie-up pieces with BFC were just ripping me to shreds.

[red mark]

i like and had alot aof fun with s.i. annihilus, p.b. and 10 range for 4 damage,and only 127 points. a whole lot of extra points to have fun with too.played and won all 3 with him !!

[Cyaegha]

LE Clark Kent (Collateral Damage) can also do the trick, PB+RS+Supe Ally TA. However, he pales down in comparison to Annhilius, mostly because he has a lower range (8) and a smaller dial, not mentionning that he keeps PB only on it's 1st click before getting it back end-dial.

But the Superman TA manage to still make him interesting and worth trying

[necrodog]

Excellent article: rep to you!

[Ultron-16]

HA022 Moonstone - 76 (+5 T-bolt)

HA038 Venom - 73 (+8 entangle)

AV056 Hawkeye - 56 (+5 T-bolt)

SN081 Bullseye - 65 (+10 nanobots)
Total= 298

This is my current deity killing thunderbolts theme team. ICWO is prolly a decent upgrade over the nanobots and entangle, but I try not to mix universes. Btw, heres hoping for ICW-Cerebro. :laugh:

[The Arachnid]

Some figs Id use:

Marvel:
Chase Spider Woman (If I had her :( )
Jack of Hearts from Supernova
Black Panther

DC:
75 pt Batman from Justice League w/Thwart
Lex Luthor from Justice League

[hpred]

My only concern with the article is that it was set in a UNRESTICTED game. What happens in a CONSTRUCTED envirment where you do not have access to Thunderbolts. All in all a great job on the article Wiz.

[CheeseWiz]

My only concern with the article is that it was set in a UNRESTICTED game. What happens in a CONSTRUCTED envirment where you do not have access to Thunderbolts. All in all a great job on the article Wiz.

Good point. Throw comic accuracy out and sub Bullseye and your feats for Baron Zemo?

Or, break Keywords and Throw in your FCBD 'Iron Man as Iron Patriot' and Avengers SR 'Hawkeye as Bullseye' and if anyone notices you are a point over, have Norman Osborn sort it out for you.

[RTD]

A key I feel is remembering that fortitude can always be thwarted. If you're counting on your opponent having fortitude, plan on having thwart. Its cheaper so you are netting points when it works!

[anonym0use]

A key I feel is remembering that fortitude can always be thwarted. If you're counting on your opponent having fortitude, plan on having thwart. Its cheaper so you are netting points when it works!

Thwart is one way to bypass Fortitude, but consider the opportunity costs:

1.) Point cost:

Aside from the 15 points to equip the figure, you also need to have someone to equip it on! The person you pick better be able to use it their whole dial, and must be hard to put down because they'll likely be a BIG target for your opponent. A figure like R Black Panther may be cheap, but a quick surgical strike will remove the prerequisite power from his dial, and an even bigger hit will remove him from the playing field altogther. Someone with Mastermind makes for a good Thwart-er.

2.) Action cost:

It's not a simple matter of a free-action Outwit to activate the Thwart. You have to give a power action to Thwart, which means the figure thwarting must have LoF to a Fortitude equipped figure. In a 300 point, 3 action game you almost need to dedicate:

1 action to move a Thwart piece into position (TK or otherwise)
1 action to Thwart (followed by a free action Outwit)

which leaves 1 action to attack with.

You can always go without the TK, but then you'll likely need to move into position, and then push to Thwart the next turn. Even if you have Indomitable/Willpower, you'll still have 2 tokens and be unable to react when an opponent decided to eliminate the Thwart menace.

Not to mention, what do you do if your opponent has no feats you want to get rid of? No feats at all? What if they have Power COsmic? At that point you've built around another strategy, planning on dealing with Fortitude, so that you're kind of handicapping yourself - the same way a player with Fortitude handicaps themselves when an opponent has no outwit.

These reasons, I feel make Thwart an unviable option at low point total games. If Thwart were worded like Dissent, you might see it used more often.

As it stands, I'd rather invest my

15 point (Thwart)
+[X Character] points
+ Transportation <TK/Taxi figure> points

on more Psychic Blasting, Pulse Waving atackers - most of the time anyway.

JL OOTS Batman makes a Solid Thwart piece, able to move into position and then thwart in one action though I've never used the feat when I equip it to him.

[CheeseWiz]

^ I couldn't agree more.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to anonym0use again.

[anonym0use]

Incidentally, the easiest 65 points I ever earned came from KO'ng:

R Black Panther 27
+ T-bolts (Ultimates) 5
+ Dissent 18
+ Thwart 15

I still can't believe anyone would box up such a glass jaw, and leave them open to attack.