range combat expert and running shot

[Bedazzla]

some one told me you can't use these two powers in congunction. what's the word on that?

[metzgarob]

go to www.heroclix.com and read the faq... it states:

you can not use RCE with any other super power

same with CCE

[the itsy bit]

RS on Cyclops is useless !

[Tsannik]

A figure using RCE/CCE cannot be affected by or use
Charge
Flurry
Mind Control
Leap/Climb
Running Shot
Stealth
Super Strength
Blades/Claws/Fangs
Incapacitate
Energy Explosion
Pulse Wave
Steal Energy
Telekinesis
Enhancement
Outwit (cannot use, but can be affected by)
Hypersonic Speed
Psychic Blast
Willpower
Perplex

A figure using RCE/CCE can be affected by and use
Probability Control
All team abilities (for Superman Enemy – can be granted Outwit, but won’t be able to use

So, Running Shot and Ranged Combat Expert cannot be used together.

[T-RO]

Originally posted by the itsy bit
RS on Cyclops is useless !

That doesnt make it useless. With RS you can move AND shoot, most characters have to move, wait, then shoot. Use RCE for those times that you already have a shot available.

[Spiritual_Ex]

I used both RCE and Running shot in a battle using Cylcops yesterday (not together, but at points in the battle), I really liked having that option, especially since my opponent had caught a few of my figs out of position and Cyclops needed to move. Having the option of shooting on the fly was exceptionally nice.

[rcoperich]

From the FAQ:

While Ranged Combat Expert cannot be used in connection with other powers, it can be used in connection with team abilities. Thus, while a Ranged Combat Expert attack cannot be enhanced, a S.H.I.E.L.D. figure could add a click of damage to that attack by using the S.H.I.E.L.D team ability.

So Tsannik, why do you say that the ruling is "All team abilities (for Superman Enemy – can be granted Outwit, but won’t be able to use )?"

Just like a Shield can use the team power Enhancement, a Superman Enemy should still be able to use their team ability of Outwit and RCE/CCE. Example, Doomsday next to an Intergang agent at the beginning of a turn. Doomsday gains Outwit for the turn and still attacks with CCE.

[Tsannik]

The only thing the Superman Enemy team ability does is GRANT the super power to the highest pointed figure.

So, Superman Enemy will work with RCE/CCE.

Now, RCE/CCE say that they will not work in conjunction with ANY other super power (except Probabilty Control).

So if your Superman Enemy decides to use the Outwit, he will not be able to then use RCE/CCE.

Also, once the Superman Enemy pair seperates... then the Outwit will be lost (as adjacency is lost, and adjacency is required for Superman Enemy team ability to work).

[rcoperich]

Still..."While Ranged Combat Expert cannot be used in connection with other powers, it can be used in connection with team abilities. "

Team abilities are different super powers. There is a clear distinction made in that statement. The Shield ability is Enhancement. The SE ability is Outwit when two characters are adjacent. It does not make sense for this to be the lone execption to the rule. I think you have the incorrect ruling and I hope that the next FAQ will clear it up.

[Tsannik]

Well..

The SHIELD Team ability is not Enhancement. It acts like it, but isn't. Enhancement does not require tokens to be assigned to the Enhancement figure. SHIELD requires that tokens be assigned whether or not the attack is successful.

Let me say again...

All the Superman Enemy team ability does is GRANT the power Outwit. It does not override any other rulings that have been placed. If the figure who was granted the Outwit also had RCE/CCE.... he would not be able to use them both together as RCE/CCE speficially states it cannot be used with other powers.

Let me see if I can get Xanth, HeroComplex or one of the others...

[azhael]

From the DC FAQ:

Superman Enemy Team Ability

This team ability is in effect whenever the conditions are met (ie. whenever two Superman Enemies are adjacent.)

The ability grants the Outwit power , so if the above conditions are met, it would be possible for an opposing character to Outwit this newly granted Outwit power.

If both adjacent Superman Enemies have the same point value, the controlling player chooses which one of them is granted the Outwit power.

The Outwit power is granted only while the conditions of the team ability are met. If the two Superman Enemies are no longer adjacent, the ability no longer functions and the power goes away.

The section in red is what Tsannik is refering to. So the Superman Enemy is a team ability, but it grants the power outwit, which functions in every repsect as if the SE had a little black square on his damage slot. So no Superman Enemy Outwit used by a figure in conjunction with his own RCE or CCE.

[HeroComplex]

The Superman Enemy ability is a team ability. Outwit is a superpower. The Outwit which is granted by the Superman Enemy ability is still a superpower---one granted by a team ability, yes, but it is still subject to all rules relating to superpowers; among other things, the Outwit can be itself Outwitted. The team ability cannot, but the superpower stemming from it can.