Thunderbolts and wildcards

[thanosstar]

If i tbolt an avengers member to mystics can wildcards copy the mystics team ability

[Pepsirox08]

wildcards cant copy ATAs, same with F4 and many others...

[thanosstar]

Thought so. lost atourny cuse a guy was allowed to copy tbnlted mystics on his 5 si spideys

[bigmac267]

Thought so. lost atourny cuse a guy was allowed to copy tbnlted mystics on his 5 si spideys

That's pretty hardcore cheese. Yeah, this rule used to be different, but it changed at some point fairly recently. From the Player's Guide:

When a feat card is used that grants the possessing team
members to use a different team ability, the wild card may
not use the ability granted by the feat – they can only copy
the team ability that is available without the feat.

[thanosstar]

Funny thing is they guy i played b4 that used 5 si spideys to tboltd to bat ally. im not really mad cuse the match was close but taking damage i shouldnt have kinda made thngs bad

[bigmac267]

Funny thing is they guy i played b4 that used 5 si spideys to tboltd to bat ally. im not really mad cuse the match was close but taking damage i shouldnt have kinda made thngs bad

If this is pretty common at your venue, correcting them on the wild card/Thunderbolts ruling may not help the wild card cheese. They might just use an actual Mystic/Bat Ally to copy from. May I suggest Saboteur on a figure with the X-Men or Avengers TA? Also, the Disbanded BFC could be helpful.

[Harpua]

If this is pretty common at your venue, correcting them on the wild card/Thunderbolts ruling may not help the wild card cheese. They might just use an actual Mystic/Bat Ally to copy from. May I suggest Saboteur on a figure with the X-Men or Avengers TA? Also, the Disbanded BFC could be helpful.

Saboteur is too easily nerfed by Mind Control.

I MC your Saboteur. When he's under my command, I have my WCs copy whatever they want. They'll keep whatever TA that is after the Saboteur returns to his team.

As it is, though, MC is not seen most of the time. Saboteur is great on Injustice League guys with the Society ATA.

[wonderboy8917]

Thought so. lost atourny cuse a guy was allowed to copy tbnlted mystics on his 5 si spideys

"Wildcards cannot use team abilities granted through feat
cards. When copying a team ability, unless specified
otherwise, they use the team ability from the Powers and
Abilities card." Page 7-1 of Player's Guide.

This is why a Player's Guide needs to be available in every tournament environment. Not only that, but study study study. Knowing the rules and knowing how to back it up can make or break your tournament success.

[Quebbster]

That's pretty hardcore cheese. Yeah, this rule used to be different, but it changed at some point fairly recently. From the Player's Guide:

It changed in the FF ruleset, just before Secret Invasion was released.
SI Spider-Man has never been able to copy ATAs.

[zero_cochrane]

And that's why he cries at night.

[Quebbster]

And that's why he cries at night.

I thought it was because he looks like a happy meal toy and everyone just chops him of his base and puts a good-looking Spidey there instead.

[zero_cochrane]

The #1 figure most responsible for getting players into modding! :grin:

[HeroFactor]

I stuck my SI Spidey on a Sesame Street sign post that I stole from my kids. Now he looks right at home.

BTW, on topic...If I Tbolt to a TA like Bat Enemy, can the Tbolted character GIVE and RECEIVE values with other Bat Enemy figures?

[Harpua]

I stuck my SI Spidey on a Sesame Street sign post that I stole from my kids. Now he looks right at home.

BTW, on topic...If I Tbolt to a TA like Bat Enemy, can the Tbolted character GIVE and RECEIVE values with other Bat Enemy figures?

Yes he can.

[Quebbster]

Yes he can.

...because T-bolts possess the TA they choose.
Wildcards and Mercenaries merely use it.

Just fleshing out the answer a little more.

[as_bat]

...because T-bolts possess the TA they choose.
Wildcards and Mercenaries merely use it.

Just fleshing out the answer a little more.

"Wild cards. Wild card team abilities allow a character to use any team ability possessed by any friendly character on the battlefield."

I know the rule, but even with the players guide line that explicitly says that wilcards can´t copy ATAs I still think that ruling is not consistent with the rules book... (this is just an opinion, not willing to open again the debate)

[bigmac267]

The #1 figure most responsible for getting players into modding! :grin:

Agreed. I have only modded two figures (and even then, it was just putting a new sculpt on a dial): SI Spider-Man, because I could not bear to see the best Spider-Man dial (cost effective) have such a poor looking sculpt, and Judge Hershey, because I had a small Hershey bar guy figurine that I couldn't resist using.

[lancelot]

"Wild cards. Wild card team abilities allow a character to use any team ability possessed by any friendly character on the battlefield."

I know the rule, but even with the players guide line that explicitly says that wilcards can´t copy ATAs I still think that ruling is not consistent with the rules book... (this is just an opinion, not willing to open again the debate)

If there was an ACTUAL Batman Enemy figure on the team, they could WC this and then receive the shared values from the T'Bolted Batman Enemy.

They could not copy the Batman Enemy TA from the T'Bolted character.

The same applies to Defenders/JSA.

[as_bat]

If there was an ACTUAL Batman Enemy figure on the team, they could WC this and then receive the shared values from the T'Bolted Batman Enemy.

They could not copy the Batman Enemy TA from the T'Bolted character.

The same applies to Defenders/JSA.

I understand that, my post was about copying the ATA.

[lancelot]

I understand that, my post was about copying the ATA.

Yeah, I think Q missed the fact you need a natural TA on the team, at least.

[adamkomar]

I've never agreed with the ruling about disallowing wild cards to copy ATAs. ATAs replace the original TA. Every ATA feat says, "characters have the following team ability instead of". If it's not there then it can't be copied. If the ATA is possessed then it should be able to be copied. Wild cards aren't using the feat. Their using a team ability of a friendly character.

[Harpua]

I've never agreed with the ruling about disallowing wild cards to copy ATAs. ATAs replace the original TA. Every ATA feat says, "characters have the following team ability instead of". If it's not there then it can't be copied. If the ATA is possessed then it should be able to be copied. Wild cards aren't using the feat. Their using a team ability of a friendly character.

I agree with this statement 100%.

(In addition, the interaction created by the rulings is anything but intuitive. "Oh, yeah, Sue has *this* TA, but your WC can copy *that* one, which nobody has. On top of that, when Sue gets KOed, she triggers the WC's TA with her TA that isn't the same as the WC's.")

[Quebbster]

I know the rule, but even with the players guide line that explicitly says that wilcards can´t copy ATAs I still think that ruling is not consistent with the rules book... (this is just an opinion, not willing to open again the debate)
Yes, it is somewhat vaguely worded. That's why we were told that that was what GD intended when they released the FF rulebook. Otherwise things may well have stayed the same.

[as_bat]

Yes, it is somewhat vaguely worded. That's why we were told that that was what GD intended when they released the FF rulebook. Otherwise things may well have stayed the same.

Why vaguely worded? (not debating, I just want to understand your point of view)
To be able to be asigned an ATA a fig must have certain team symbol.
An ATA replace the TA possesed by a fig.
Wildcards copy TA´s possesed by friendly teammates.
Wildcards are not the ones assigned the feat, they just copy what another friendly fig posses.

As I said, I accept the ruling but it is not what the rules book say.

[adamkomar]

To work the way GD seems to have intended them to work, ATAs should be errata'ed to say, "must use" instead of, "has".

[as_bat]

To work the way GD seems to have intended them to work, ATAs should be errata'ed to say, "must use" instead of, "has".

Problem I see if they "must use" instead of possesing the new TA is that they would still have the old TA (like they do now if we give it a little more thinking).

[adamkomar]

Problem I see if they "must use" instead of possesing the new TA is that they would still have the old TA (like they do now if we give it a little more thinking).

That's exactly why it should be "must use" instead of "has" if GD intends for wild cards to only copy original TAs. "Must use" requires the assigned character to use the ATA, but keeps the original TA around for wild cards to copy.

I'm not opposed to wild cards not being allowed to copy ATAs. I'm opposed to the rules not reflecting that intention. Either the rule or the intention should be changed. More often, the rules are changed (or, in some cases, excepted) to match the intention rather than the other way around.

[as_bat]

But lets for one second think in "must use" as you say.
Then a TBolted team to (lets say) Defenders without a defender in the team would not be able to use the TA cause nobody posses the TA.
Obviously that would be a problem also generated by the nerf Wildcards suffered that changed some TAs to "posses and use".

[adamkomar]

But lets for one second think in "must use" as you say.
Then a TBolted team to (lets say) Defenders without a defender in the team would not be able to use the TA cause nobody posses the TA.
Obviously that would be a problem also generated by the nerf Wildcards suffered that changed some TAs to "posses and use".

You're right. That would make Defenders a bad TB choice. Just because something is a possibility, it doesn't mean it's a good idea.

I don't think every team ability should be a functional choice with TB. Thunderbolts may be open to functioning like a member of another team, but that doesn't mean they know how to pull it off. They should need someone who's actually a member to show them how.