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lancelot
01/11/2010, 00:12
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=669&pictureid=7912

Featuring:
THE SEVEN SOLDIERS
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/1480/86721-18102-seven-soldiers-of-vi_large.jpg

Being a fan of anything written by Grant Morrison, I thought I'd kick off the DC section of "COMIC ACCURATE" with his ragtag band of misfits, the Seven Soldiers.

Click on FULL ARTICLE and dive into the worlds of the anti-Sheeda!

lancelot
01/11/2010, 00:12
One of the most interesting comic book line-ups, Grant Morrison's Seven Soldiers combines the mystical with the underworld and weaves one fantastical story of a quest. But we're here to talk about Heroclix!

The Seven Soldiers were actually seven separate entities that team-up during the final battle against the Sheeda Queen, the characters are nevertheless formidable as a Heroclix team, if as a non-theme team (curses the missing Keyword on at least Rookie Mr. Miracle).

You can find in-depth plot summaries as according to each comic here: Seven Soldiers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Soldiers).

The team was "led" by Zatanna with which we'll use her latest version, by far her best representation:
http://www.ebookpdf.net/screen/cover3/20435719769.jpg
jl028 E Zatanna
Team: Justice League
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 72
Keywords: Celebrity, Justice League, Justice League of America, Mystical, Sentinels of Magic, Seven Soldiers
m-winga-fistd-starburstg-starburst10101628101628915210914110913178131KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

The key to Zatanna is keeping her relatively outside of battle, supporting the main-liners with her PC, pushing over onto Outwit only when there's a huge threat to deal with or when you need damage to stick through an Impervious figure. However, should you have a shot at Incapacitating a key opposing figure, don't be afraid to do so: it might make the difference. Force Blast will shove anybody basing her out of the way, hopefully experiencing knockback damage while at it. Just play her with care mid-dial since she only has ESD on top of a paltry 15DV and no way to reduce damage. Phase away when necessary and support Frankenstein's ranged attacks with her end-dial Enhancement. Definitely a support package you want to protect at all costs.


Unseemingly but surprisingly so, the key to this team are your dual-Perplexers in both Klarion, the Witch Boy and Rookie Mr. Miracle:
http://www.hypergeek.ca/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Klarion_cover.jpg
cr011 R Klarion
Team: Mystics
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 76
Keywords: Mystical, Seven Soldiers, Teen
m-boota-fistd-starburstg-starburst7916279162791526815268151891711010172KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) Klarion and Teekl: Klarion can use the Duo Attack ability, but do not modify Klarion's damage by -1 for the second attack.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v288/joerice/SevenSoldiersMisterMiracleC.jpg
or070 R Mister Miracle
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 64
Keywords: New Gods
m-winga-fistd-starburstg-starburst1091828917298172981728816178161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Both are notoriously difficult to hit, with what Klarion's Stealth and Super Senses forcing all but close combat attacks to even ding the boy, the Mystics TA acting as a deterrent and Miracle's high natural defense of 18. Through liberal uses of their Perplex, you should be able to attack with 10-12 AVs, deal 3-5 damage, or bolster your defense by +1 or +2. Both sport PC on the back dial, so if you reach those points, go ahead and push Zatanna onto Outwit. Be sure to mind the Running Start and Infiltrate on Klarion, positioning him in a sense where he can support your force the best and sending him behind enemy lines at the very last moment, perhaps as a desperate tie-up maneuver. Late game, Klarion can swing back with some Flurry/Blades and Regeneration, whereas Miracle can push and optimally position his Perplex/PC without even having to roll break away thanks to Leap/Climb.


Rounding out the remaining Soldiers are your attack force: Frankenstein, Bulleteer, Guardian, and Shining Knight.

http://www.ebookpdf.net/screen/cover3/20224144658.jpg
aa041 V Frankenstein
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 98
Keywords: Monster, Seven Soldiers
m-boota-fistd-starburstg-starburst8917361016361016271016279162691526815258152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Attack) The Monster's Steam Gun: Frankenstein can use Super Strength and Energy Explosion.

Personally, around here it's been house-ruled that he has Super Strength and Energy Explosion, but legally, he only has Super Strength so Unstoppable works very well on his Running Shot clicks so he isn't slowed down by simple hindering terrain. Just pump up his range or attack and his 3 damage will get through Impervious/Invulnerable figures. Coupled with Indomitable, this zombie will spearhead your attack force, pressing every 2 of 3 turns. Perhaps after being hit by a Charge attack, he is still a threat Mid-dial, gaining Blades/Claws/Fangs with a great and steady AV. Late dial, he even sports Regeneration to get back into the thick of things; just don't get him sniped before he gets a chance to use it. Close Combat Expert is mainly garnish as seeing as one would prefer to heal him up. Should your judge also house-rule that he has Energy Explosion, then his value has only increased as he can deal with clusters of soft targets.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/87/Bulleteer_4.jpg/250px-Bulleteer_4.jpg
jl010 R Bulleteer
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 69
Keywords: Seven Soldiers
m-boota-fistd-starburstg-starburst891728817288162781527717267162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Probably your main brawler, mixing it up close will be Bulleteer, acting as a pseudo-Mystics with Damage Shield equipped, which works for her first 3 clicks. Cannonball allows her to set up in the middle of a rooftop, away from ranged attackers and dive down the following turn with an object. Her respectable defense values and a dial full of reducers will keep her alive for a long time, tying up plenty of your opposition's ranged threats.


The next two are mainly secondary attackers and should be used precariously and only on clean-up duty:

http://www.comicbookreligion.com/img/m/Manhattan_Guardian.jpg
cd086 U Guardian
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 47
Keywords: Police, Reporter, Seven Soldiers
m-boota-fistd-starburstg-starburst891638916279152781526815267142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

A nice and cheap package for only 47 points, this street cop can deal the hurt if you pair him up against soft targets. Don't be afraid to push, especially if his Toughness will reduce most damage down to 1 or even 0 and get to the Flurry where he can deal even more damage in a single turn. Losing that, he regains Charge with Willpower, albeit at only 8AV and 2Dmg, so keep chasing down soft targets, such as medics and figures sporting Toughness.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y235/MarvelCovers/SevenSoldiersShiningKnightC.jpg
jl049 R Shining Knight
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 48
Keywords: Past, Seven Soldiers, Teen, Warrior
m-transport-winga-fistd-starburstg-starburst991628816288152871427714167141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Mainly used as your bail-out taxi and front-line deployment, don't be afraid to Perplex Shining Knight for a kamikaze Move & Attack against targets and positioning Frankenstein or Bulleteer for a follow-up attack. Mid-dial Blades and Combat Reflexes somewhat makes this piece a mid-game secondary attacker, especially if you've got a couple of PC to back up the 8AV and gamble on the Blades rolls against tough targets. On the final 2 clicks, Horsefeathers has abandoned her master and forces the Knight onto the ground with Exploit Weakness representing Aurakles's sword...at 7AV and 1Dmg. Nothing more than a taxi, bait, tie-up, longshot attacker is this piece so attack with abandon, choosing your targets as you move up the main force.

So, your team ends up looking like this:

Zatanna (JL) 72
Klarion w/ Running Start & Infiltrate 76 + 5 + 2
R Mr. Miracle 64
Frankenstein w/ Unstoppable 98 + 5
Bulleteer w/ Damage Shield & Cannonball 69 + 10 + 4
Guardian 47
Shining Knight 48
-----------------
500 points on the dot!

Definitely a finesse team to play due to the relatively low damage output and middling attack values, riding the dual-Perplexers and multiple PCs to ensure the first few attacks land and stick is the key to this team's survival. However this team plays out, win or lose, you're likely to have tons of fun running Grant Morrison's ragtag band of superheroes.

Look forward to the next article where I'll tackle yet another obscure but viable DC Heroclix team!

RavenProject
01/11/2010, 00:24
Youv'e got a weird group if you're House Ruling the Steam Gun but won't count this as a Theme Team. :)

-J

lancelot
01/11/2010, 00:46
Youv'e got a weird group if you're House Ruling the Steam Gun but won't count this as a Theme Team. :)

-J

Oh, I was speaking "legally"...pretty sure my judge would give me theme if I asked in advance.

DaeRave
01/11/2010, 01:15
Yeah any decent judge would.
Great lineup! I'm going to try this out, and check out the comics too! Thanks!

arekmarr
01/11/2010, 01:35
Great article. I love it. That is exactly the seven soldiers team that I run (sans the cardboard).

jak7890
01/11/2010, 04:40
Klarion is inexplicably one of my favorite pieces, and has definitely made me curious about all of the Seven Soldiers love.

I think my one recommendation would be to consider investing in an Armor Piercing or two so that your perplexers can focus on attack values and so that you can make the most out of your blades/claws/fangs attacks. Damage Shield is all well and good, but at 500 pts there's too much of a chance that your targets will have reducers to soak the retaliation without any "magical" penetration. I might consider booting Guardian to free up some points for the suggested feat and invest in some pogs for theme PC tokens and to buy time for your nickel and dimers to do their job.

Looks like fun!

Tim Drake
01/11/2010, 04:52
Uhm... forgive the dumb noob question, but if Frankenstein's card says he has energy explosion, why would that need a house rule?

Quebbster
01/11/2010, 06:03
Uhm... forgive the dumb noob question, but if Frankenstein's card says he has energy explosion, why would that need a house rule?

Because it has been ruled that the dial trumps the card.
Frankenstein's dial shows a green square in the Attack slot, so he has Super Strength. Period.

Mr. Cranberry
01/11/2010, 09:16
I played this team shortly after AA was released, with a few exceptions.

I ran two Klarions to make up for the Mr Miricle lacking a keyword.

Since I don't have a Shining Knight I used the ever useful Vigilante w/ Cont Plan. He was also the VIP of most games.

But I do agree that Zatanna is a must!

It was loads of fun and I believe I won Fellowship for that night too.

Witchyfire
01/11/2010, 10:02
Because it has been ruled that the dial trumps the card.
Frankenstein's dial shows a green square in the Attack slot, so he has Super Strength. Period.

Wow i actually had no idea this had even become aproblem...are there any other chars whose dial and Card powers are this different...


I'm not talking about one slightly different power...just big omissions!

Rurouni KJS
01/11/2010, 10:05
I wrote about this team extensively in my Heroclixin' blog (http://heroclixin.wordpress.com) last year. A few points:

It's entirely comic-accurate that they're not a themed team, because they never, ever got together as a team in the comics!

I had a different strategy with regard to feats (many gleaned from TheMummyBoy on this thread (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249917&highlight=seven+soldiers)) and thus a differing use of various characters. For instance, Double-Time on Shining Knight makes her a first-strike/taxi/tie-up piece rather than a nigh-wasted 3rd-stringer (with her putrid 7 AV during Move and Attack):


A=one of your Charging allies
S=Shining Knight
P=one of your Perplexing allies
H=heavy object
T=target enemy

. . . . . .
. . S T . .
. . A S H .
. . . . . .
. . . . P P


Tie up the target and boost Shining Knight's DV to 18. She suddenly becomes a major threat if left alone, as she can push to Flurry next turn with 10 AV and 3 damage thanks to double Perplex. Even if she takes damage before that, her fare (Bulleteer) is ready to Charge around, grab the heavy and paste the target one with it.

See how this and other strategies worked with the Seven Soldiers on the Heroclixin' blog (http://heroclixin.wordpress.com/?s=seven+soldiers).

Rurouni KJS
01/11/2010, 10:09
Wow i actually had no idea this had even become aproblem...are there any other chars whose dial and Card powers are this different...


I'm not talking about one slightly different power...just big omissions!

The only other big discrepancy is LE Grodd. His card says he's a wild card (Calculator) and his dial has no team symbol. The dial trumps the card and has officially been ruled so.

Rad255
01/11/2010, 10:46
It still makes no sense, dial or not. If the ability is called "The Monster's Steam Gun", why would it be super strength? Steam gun... energy explosion... dial or not, it makes more sense.

Quebbster
01/11/2010, 10:55
It still makes no sense, dial or not. If the ability is called "The Monster's Steam Gun", why would it be super strength? Steam gun... energy explosion... dial or not, it makes more sense.
hohboy...
we're not going to talk about what 'makes sense' or not. Better just forget all about the real world while playing, otherwise you'll just get confused and angry.

Wombatboy
01/11/2010, 11:43
Good article, even though I'm not a fan of Grant Morrison - I'd like to see more articles on lesser seen team keywords (Injustice League, anyone?).

Rookie Mister Miracle doesn't have the Seven Soldiers keyword because that figure represents Scott Free, while the Seven Soldiers version is his successor and former apprentice Shilo Norman, who doesn't have his own clix yet.

But if you want a theme team, why limit yourself to comic accuracy? I would use other Seven Soldiers keywords pieces like Batgirl from AA and Vigilante from JL instead of Bulleteer or Guardian. If you use STRIPE and the LE Oliver Queen with Vigilante you then have three pieces with the JSA ability. STRIPE's 18 defense can beef up the other two (Vigilante would then have a 20 defense versus ranged while he was adjacent to the big guy), but STRIPE's high cost of 111 points might offset his usefulness.

lancelot
01/11/2010, 12:46
Good article, even though I'm not a fan of Grant Morrison - I'd like to see more articles on lesser seen team keywords (Injustice League, anyone?).
You asked for it! :laugh:

Rookie Mister Miracle doesn't have the Seven Soldiers keyword because that figure represents Scott Free, while the Seven Soldiers version is his successor and former apprentice Shilo Norman, who doesn't have his own clix yet.
Here's to hoping he gets a 'clix, then!

But if you want a theme team, why limit yourself to comic accuracy? I would use other Seven Soldiers keywords pieces like Batgirl from AA and Vigilante from JL instead of Bulleteer or Guardian. If you use STRIPE and the LE Oliver Queen with Vigilante you then have three pieces with the JSA ability. STRIPE's 18 defense can beef up the other two (Vigilante would then have a 20 defense versus ranged while he was adjacent to the big guy), but STRIPE's high cost of 111 points might offset his usefulness.
Note the "COMIC ACCURATE" tag in the title? :laugh:

I wanted to stick to that specific squad. But thanks for your input, nevertheless!

Surfer13
01/11/2010, 13:06
Yeah any decent judge would.
Great lineup! I'm going to try this out, and check out the comics too! Thanks!

What if the judge didn't know that Mister Miracle was on the team?

You have to read every comic out there to be a "decent" judge?

Neither Tigra nor Impossible Man have the FF keyword, but both were with the team for a longer period of time than Wolverine, Hulk, or Ghost Rider and their "New Fantastic Four", but how many judges know that? Only the "decent" ones?

mr-coffin
01/11/2010, 16:24
What if the judge didn't know that Mister Miracle was on the team?

You have to read every comic out there to be a "decent" judge?

Neither Tigra nor Impossible Man have the FF keyword, but both were with the team for a longer period of time than Wolverine, Hulk, or Ghost Rider and their "New Fantastic Four", but how many judges know that? Only the "decent" ones?

Well the decent ones either know it or look it up on the internet. Its not necessary to know comics to be a heroclix judge but I think it is important to at least be able to know where to find the info. To take the pressure off I'll also say that any decent player knows enough to check with the judge before the tournament if they are going to play a theme team that requires judge approval.

Arsenalroy2k
01/11/2010, 16:47
Well the decent ones either know it or look it up on the internet. Its not necessary to know comics to be a heroclix judge but I think it is important to at least be able to know where to find the info. To take the pressure off I'll also say that any decent player knows enough to check with the judge before the tournament if they are going to play a theme team that requires judge approval.

Or better yet, if they can't contact the judge prior to the tournament, bring the evidence with you to the game: Bring the comic or print out the wikipedia article.

As for the Seven Soldiers, I once played them for fun in a game against a friend. I think he was playing the Injustice Society or something like that. I just remember Vandal Savage was on the team. Anyways, they did good. I think I had to push like crazy though.

I also once played the old Post-Crisis second lineup of the Seven Soldiers. (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4017930&postcount=1328) Looking back, it had mixed results at best.

Top10
01/11/2010, 17:27
Mr.Miracle is fun to run with pounce. He is a flyer with leap climb which is an odd combo.

will his willpower absorb the push damage?

azathoth
01/11/2010, 17:51
Mr.Miracle is fun to run with pounce. He is a flyer with leap climb which is an odd combo.

will his willpower absorb the push damage?

Nope. As per the newer version of the card, it is unavoidable damage, not pushing damage. That does sound like a fun combo though!

phantalien
01/11/2010, 19:22
I was hoping that you would also delve into the silver/bronze age Seven Soldiers

Vigilante
Green Arrow
Speedy
Star-Spangled Kid
Stripsey
Shining Knight
Crimson Avenger

The team can be created by name of the characters but not by the person under the mask.

Surfer13
01/11/2010, 20:31
Well the decent ones either know it or look it up on the internet. Its not necessary to know comics to be a heroclix judge but I think it is important to at least be able to know where to find the info. To take the pressure off I'll also say that any decent player knows enough to check with the judge before the tournament if they are going to play a theme team that requires judge approval.

Contacting the judge in advance? Yeah, that could work, but my group? They would never do that. I would ask them to leave me questions in my box at the store and I would answer everything that they had, but do you think that they ever did?
And I don't have a laptop. Looking it up on the internet isn't an option come tournament time.

So I guess I sucked as a judge. Never mind that I did my level best to keep up with the rules and call everything down the middle, but since I didn't have wireless internet and a laptop to make these calls regarding discretionary theme teams, I didn't have what it took to judge a tournament fairly. :rolleyes:

Pepsirox08
01/11/2010, 21:40
i hate how there is two COMPLETELY different seven soldiers and people combine them because they all have the keyword...

my version of the seven soldiers beat urs... cause it is horrible!!

Batgirl - 50
Rex Mason - 78
Mento - 87
Deadman - 119
Adam Strange - 88
Shining Knight - 48
Blackhawks - 30

Total 500 NOW THATS THE SEVEN SOLDIERS!!!

or...

STRIPE - 111
Green Arrow - 104
Red Arrow - 73
Crimson Avenger - 53
Star-Spangled Kid - 49
Shining Knight - 48
Vigilante - 45

Total 483 (some room for feats...)
I would like this team better but unlucky as i am, i lost STRIPE!!

Captain Beyond
01/11/2010, 23:05
I'm not a Grant Morrison fan but I've played this team and it's pretty dominating.

Quebbster
01/12/2010, 05:08
Nope. As per the newer version of the card, it is unavoidable damage, not pushing damage. That does sound like a fun combo though!

And even the old version of the card said Willpower did not work against the pushing damage.

ComicJunkie
01/13/2010, 14:55
I tend to play theme teams regardless of whether the pieces have the keyword or not. Moondragon makes it on my Avengers teams, Namorita makes it on my Fantastic Four, and Red Tornado makes it on my JSA teams.

I usually bring my Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe (any of the 5 editions) or my DC Who's Who (3 editions), or point at the comic book behind the game table with the roster in question (Guardians of the Galaxy).

If that doesn't work then surely someone has a smartphone and can get on Wikipedia or the character pages of the respective publishers.

Wizkids obviously knows more about games, marketing, and licensing than they do about comic books, their characters and storylines. The keyword list is horribly inconsistent, inaccurate, and confusing. The best solution to these problems is citing the source material: the comic book.

I say build it, play it, and if anyone has any qualms, point at the rules book which encourages thematic play regardless of keyword, cite them as having poor sportsmanship, and suggest they support their venue buy purchasing a TPB of Seven Soldiers.

lancelot
01/13/2010, 15:25
I tend to play theme teams regardless of whether the pieces have the keyword or not. Moondragon makes it on my Avengers teams, Namorita makes it on my Fantastic Four, and Red Tornado makes it on my JSA teams.

I usually bring my Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe (any of the 5 editions) or my DC Who's Who (3 editions), or point at the comic book behind the game table with the roster in question (Guardians of the Galaxy).

If that doesn't work then surely someone has a smartphone and can get on Wikipedia or the character pages of the respective publishers.

Wizkids obviously knows more about games, marketing, and licensing than they do about comic books, their characters and storylines. The keyword list is horribly inconsistent, inaccurate, and confusing. The best solution to these problems is citing the source material: the comic book.

I say build it, play it, and if anyone has any qualms, point at the rules book which encourages thematic play regardless of keyword, cite them as having poor sportsmanship, and suggest they support their venue buy purchasing a TPB of Seven Soldiers.

Here's a nice helping of REP!

Marauder
01/14/2010, 18:16
Only problem with teh "it's in the comics so it must be a theme team" approach is that some omissions can be deliberately for balance. (some powerful pieces have few or unusual keywords for instance)-

Why not just play the comic accurate team, forget about 2-3 "themePCs" and have fun? If anything it should give you a good shot at the fellowship, if the judge knows his way! :D

Arsenalroy2k
01/14/2010, 19:23
Only problem with teh "it's in the comics so it must be a theme team" approach is that some omissions can be deliberately for balance. (some powerful pieces have few or unusual keywords for instance)-

But those are far rarer than the cases of a keyword being omitted due to the arbitrary nature of their labelling. Fire is hardly a power piece, but players that want to run a Super Buddies team shouldn't be penalized for Wizkids' error.

Plus, there's also the fact that some figures don't have the keywords because they joined a certain team well after said figure was made. So if someone wants to play the 2008 lineup of The Outsiders that had Green Arrow and Batgirl on the roster, they should be able to and get the bonuses because it'll probably be a long time before those characters are remade with the appropriate keyword.

Why not just play the comic accurate team, forget about 2-3 "themePCs" and have fun? If anything it should give you a good shot at the fellowship, if the judge knows his way! :D

Because every little bit can help. It doesn't just have to be a case of your team either being fun/comic accurate or competitive. There's a middle ground where people can accomplish both.

And asking for something as simple as a theme bonus shouldn't take one out of the running for fellowship, provided they're polite about it and maybe do their due diligence when asking for the bonus of a judge who might not be up on these comic lineups (like bringing the comic/reference material).

etv3333
01/17/2010, 14:57
The only other big discrepancy is LE Grodd. His card says he's a wild card (Calculator) and his dial has no team symbol. The dial trumps the card and has officially been ruled so.

would le henchman be affected as well?

lancelot
01/19/2010, 17:30
would le henchman be affected as well?

In what manner are you speaking of?

etv3333
01/23/2010, 00:35
In what manner are you speaking of?

does he retain the wild card ta even though its not on his dial?

Quebbster
01/23/2010, 05:47
does he retain the wild card ta even though its not on his dial?

Since it is a Trait, yes. Traits cannot be found on the dial, so you go with the card.