1200 pt. game-New Guy vs. Old School Vets needs help!

[Stallion9769]

Hey all! I am newer to the forums here and would really appreciate some help. I am playing in a 1200 pt., battle royal free for all game on Friday and it is a very important game to me. All the best players from my local shop are gonna play and I am "the new guy". They have all been playing since the game came out. I have played for about 3 months. I do have a decent collection for someone who has only played for 3 months. Though, I had to sll my magic collection to fund it:disappointed:. Anyway, I have pretty much anything from sets with cards at my disposal. JL, AV, HoT, SI, CR, AA, and MM. I dont have much from the "REV" sets. I have most of the SR's from everything except SI and HoT. In HoT I have Kurse, Valkyrie, Ultron, Frog, and Loki. I also have(thanks to a purchase I just made on this site) Worlds Finest and #100 Superman from Crisis. I figure in a 1200 pt. game those are both good to use. Here is ROUGHLY what I was thinking but ANY help from players that actually know what they are doing is MUCH MUCH appreciated...

CR100 Superman 317
CR Worlds Finest 500
HoT Loki 208
HoT Captain America 72
HoT Venom 73

I have never played with the Crisis pieces(as I dont have them just yet, they are on their way). But Loki, Cap, and Venom I use ALOT and really like them. Especially whenVenom is feated up. Should I not use Worlds Finest because it is such a big chunk of the points and maybe slide in Superman Prime or Odin or someone? This is where I need help. Im not good at making a team that helps eachother, and that seems to be a big key to victory.

I know in Magic when you ask a question like this everyone wants to know what the Meta-game is where your at. Well, at LEAST 3 of the 4 guys ill be playing against have pretty much everything in their collections. Old AND new. One guy I know loves to use outwit and Hypersonic Speed. And another guy always seems to have really technical, hard to use, very well thought out teams if that helps any. Thanks in advance for the replies.

Also want to say this is a GREAT site and it is so helpful to new players. I learned most of what I know from this site. I really appreciate whoever it is who runs this site and all the members who contribute. More people use this site than anyone thinks. Everyone at my local shop uses it and loves it as well. Thanks.

[Sheeplover]

Everyone is going to tell you what to use, that's fine. I will tell you in my experience what strategy works for me. Be aggressive. Pick one opponent and kill them, don't take shots at multiple opponents. They will feel compelled to retaliate, and before you know it, it will be 3 on 1. Be aggressive. Hug the edges on the map. If you on the edge of the map, other players will have to come to you. Play a lot of range in high point games like that. First strike capability cannot be overestimated. Be aggressive. Don't be afraid to push, these new clix were made for it. If you feel an opposing clix is on it's last clix, push to kill it because your opponent knows it is also, and will not hesitate to push it before you kill it. Be aggressive, it forces your opponent to react to actions. Be aggressive, it can disorient your opponent. Be aggressive, it's just a helluva lot more fun.

[Stallion9769]

Everyone is going to tell you what to use, that's fine. I will tell you in my experience what strategy works for me. Be aggressive. Pick one opponent and kill them, don't take shots at multiple opponents. They will feel compelled to retaliate, and before you know it, it will be 3 on 1. Be aggressive. Hug the edges on the map. If you on the edge of the map, other players will have to come to you. Play a lot of range in high point games like that. First strike capability cannot be overestimated. Be aggressive. Don't be afraid to push, these new clix were made for it. If you feel an opposing clix is on it's last clix, push to kill it because your opponent knows it is also, and will not hesitate to push it before you kill it. Be aggressive, it forces your opponent to react to actions. Be aggressive, it can disorient your opponent. Be aggressive, it's just a helluva lot more fun.

Hmm, I dont really get what your saying... Did you mean to say, "BE AGGRESSIVE", lol. You know, that actually makes alot of sense. Especially the parts about picking only one guy to pick on and hugging the corners. I know when I play a battle royal the first guy who comes after one of my pieces has a target on his team the whole game. Now, I dont quite understand the range part. I mean, I know its good to hit from far away and then not be able to be hit/seen from others at a range but in a BIG game like this with 6000 points on the board wouldnt I want big Bashers with high attack, Defense and especially damage? Doesnt most ranged stuff just do 1 or 2 damage? I have winter soldier and I have used him quite a bit for ranged attacks and he works well but would alot of figures like that be enough to take out the huge monsters that are gonna be on this field?? Thank you very much for the help. Strategy, it seems, is just as important as the team you field.

[Nightwing-fan]

As sleeplover said everyone is going to tell you what to use, but you really should take out World's Finest. Its not worth its points. You said that you have Ultron. 12 range, 12 attack, indomitable. He's worth it in this type of game. So would Ms Marvel (Skrull) and HOT Thor if you have them. Indomitable figures do help alot in this type of game. Cap isexcellent in the fact that he has a 21 defense in hindering. E2 is your main man but he will also be the one targeted most. I've fought against Loki and he is a pain. Dont know about Venom, I havent used him yet. You also didnt list any TKers and possible healers on your team. TK is a must in big battle royals. I easily could list off more figures I would consider but this is your team. We just had a BR last weekend at our venue. Taking a corner and only attacking one opponent is sound judgement. Having the indomitable characters lets you have the ability to attack on two fronts without pushing if your forced into it.

But in the end, have fun.

[Rurouni KJS]

I agree. World's Finest requires a degree of finesse that a new player like Stallion probably hasn't achieved yet.

[viking13]

Loki is a great piece but he will need some Master Mind fodder.

[WolvieFan9]

Though, I had to sell my magic collection to fund it:disappointed:.

Best decision you ever made.



One of the questions I have is -- how many actions per turn is your game? If the game is a full 12 actions per turn, I would look to have as many figures on my team as possible -- this allows you to make the most out of the number of actions you have available. (Willpower, Indomitable, and Power Cosmic/Quitessence TAs can help get more actions out of less figures.) However, some games will limit the number of actions, encouraging players to play bigger figures (so they don't suffer an out-actioning penalty).

So, my first bit of advice is, if the game is a 12 actions/turn game, then I'd have more figures on my team. If I was going to play E-2 Superman, I'd make him the most expensive figure and look to build a team around him.

Which leads to my second point...

In your post, you said you're not good at picking figures that support each other well.

I would recommend looking toward actual teams in the comic books for help with that. Especially in the bigger teams -- X-Men, Avengers, JLA, JSA, and somewhat in some of the smaller teams -- Defenders, Fantastic Four, Brotherhood, etc -- each character fulfills a role on the team. Either the close-combat bruiser, the long-range sniper, the Outwitter, the blade-wielder, the mentalist, etc etc etc etc etc. The members of these teams actually fulfill synergistic support relationships in HeroClix, as well.

So, for example, if you wanted to play E-2 Supes, I'd say play a Justice Society team. The units section can help you put together a VERY effective JSA team at 1200 points, and you can have a big mix of close combat figures (Hawkman, Shazam, Power Girl, Wildcat), ranged combat figures (Jakeem Thunder, Green Lantern, Stargirl), niche figures (The Flash, Liberty Belle, The Spectre, Atom Smasher) and figures with support powers (Dr. Fate, Dr. Mid-Nite, Jakeem Thunder, Sandman).

Some of these figures you might not have, because they are pre-card sets, but if you can pick up a few quickly from eBay or the trade forum, or just borrow some from friends, you might find a full team like this is much more synergistic and supports other figures much better than some random figures thrown together.

Of course, knowing how to use those figures together is your next challenge, after you decide on a team, but once you have your team, you can ask for some suggestions here as well.

[Stallion9769]

Nightwing-Fan, I do have Thor. I have only used him once but he did pretty well. When I first started playing I thought that the only "really good" pieces were SR's. I found out pretty quickly that is far from truth. ALot of the SR's blow. Ultron sounds like a great suggestion. I will have to include him.

WolvieFan, our game will be 1 turn per 100 points so yes, I will have 12 turns. Your saying I should take advantage of that by playing more smaller figures to compliment E-2 Superman? I thought about that but then dont I run the risk of them being killed easily and having only Superman as my main attacker? He is good(from what I have heard), but can he hang with 4800 points? Especially when he is going to be a target as you said? As for healers I have the REV set of Paramedics. Apart from that I am not sure what else I have that heals. As for the JSA team that sounds good. I dont have many of those older figures but have quite a few flashes, old and new, I have the CR Spectre and Liberty Belles as well. I am afraid its too late for me to pick up anymore guys for this game as it is Friday. If I trade here I will be shipping first so theres no way and if I buy from ebay it would be VERY close. In fact, I dont have E-2 Superman yet. I bought him and some other figures from a member on this forum and they said they would ship them today from Cali. Im in KY so im praying it gets here Friday. What it looks like I need to do is build a team and see what you all think. I want it to be well rounded. I would like to have a little of everything, TK, Outwit, Perplex, Prob Control, and some good attack abilities. I probably want to lean a hair more towards offensive than defensive though. I like to get in there and fight, its alot more fun.

I havent ever really read comics so I wouldnt know what teams are actually "real teams" but I can always use this site and look at the TA's and keywords.

Thanks to everyone for all the help. It is honestly appreciated. Like I said I will try and get a team up later tonight/tomorrow and go from there. Thanks again!

[BLACKHEART25]

I'm gonna suggest taking out World's Finest and Loki. I'm sure you're a decent player by now, but you are putting to much expense on your team.

I suggest putting Immortus (feated up to your liking) as he stops opposing probabilities and you can kinda lure people over for Superman to Bash. Follow up with Valkrie and Inside Information. This combo is disgusting as she has most of the keywords Hot has and "warrior" keyword (this is up to you because you may or maynot know keywords by heart) and the fact that she can slam characters with an object and keep moving nets her a Hypersonic"lite" ability.

I made up a quick team for the characters you have:

Lyssa Drak
Valkrie
Immortus
Superman
Venom
Captain America
Darkseid

I chose them since you wanted a bit of everything and you don't seem to want a lot of characters. Now you could take out Immortus or Cap if you wanna add healing like the regular Valkries from HoT. You can also throw in some Asguardian warriors if you like. I would possibly throw on a Lazarus pit (if you have it) on Supes because anyone with that card and a free for all will be coming back in 2-3 turns.

I can change this up a bit, but I gotta know if you're more into demolishing teams or swarm teams....and as Wolve said those 12 actions can matter so be wary of that.

[canaaron]

Just wanted to say, that it's not really necessary to look for figs with high defensive values because in a huge game like this, everybody will be able to bump their stats and hit them. instead, focus on making your figures difficult to target and or difficult to make the hits stick. Also, outwit is good, but with a game with this many points, you can bet people will be playing fortitude. I like the advice you were given to focus on a comic accurate team. That should provide some synergy. hope this makes some sense.

That being said, I would play 1200 point Galactus from Critical Mass. Never played him in this high of a game.

[Stallion9769]

Ok, since the big game is tomorrow I have a rough draft for a team here. They are:

HoT Ultron 174
HoT Valkyrie 145
HoT Loki 208
AA Chang Tzu 107
FF Lockjaw R 24
HoT Odin 295
CR Spectre 234
CR Chief 63
REV Paramedics 8-10-12
AV Scarlet Witch 35

Thats a grand total of 1145 leaving room for whatever feats I need. Scarlet Witch and a Medic can probably be tossed for more feat points if needed as well. I would really like to find a spot for HoT Cap or even Venom as well.

E-2 Superman is NOT in there just because I am not 100% he is gonna be here in time. He should be, but you know the USPS. If I got him in time I would probably take out Odin for him so were talking a possible 22 point difference.

I used ideas from everyone. Its not a perfect theme team but it does have a few guys from HoT. Most of them have a pretty good range as well.

Heres my idea, obviously Ultron, Odin, Spectre, and sometimes Valkyrie and Loki(MM fodder will be added to lineup) will be my main attackers. I will use Lockjaw and Valkyrie as transporters when needed. Obviously, Chief, Scarlet witch, Loki, and my medics are support. All but Loki will play behind my big guys most of the game.

As for feats I would probably use Brilliant Tactician on Chang Tzu(I read he can perplex down a foe by -2 and Perplex UP his whole team with this feat). Throw Fortitude on probably just Ultron(as Odin and Spectre have it built in).

I did want to ask about spectre though. Im not 100% on the giant rules. Say spectre is in a square and loki, for example, is in the square directly in front of him. And say that there is an opposing character 4 spaces directly in front of Loki that has an 8 range. Can that opposing figure see spectre? Can they basically shoot OVER loki and get to spectre? If thats the case, which I think it is, he would be a sitting duck in a huge game like this right?

Any adds/drops suggestions are much appreciated as well as help with what feats to use on who. This is where I really struggle. I dont hardly know any of them and I have no clue what feats work good with who and which figures really need this feat or that feat to really show their potential. After I get some help from you guys Im gonna post up my final team for evaluation. Also, after the tourney I will post the results of how I did(if anyone actually cares or wants to know). Thanks!!

[Stallion9769]

I made up a quick team for the characters you have:

Lyssa Drak
Valkrie
Immortus
Superman
Venom
Captain America
Darkseid

I chose them since you wanted a bit of everything and you don't seem to want a lot of characters. Now you could take out Immortus or Cap if you wanna add healing like the regular Valkries from HoT. You can also throw in some Asguardian warriors if you like. I would possibly throw on a Lazarus pit (if you have it) on Supes because anyone with that card and a free for all will be coming back in 2-3 turns.

I can change this up a bit, but I gotta know if you're more into demolishing teams or swarm teams....and as Wolve said those 12 actions can matter so be wary of that.

I just looked up Lazarus Pit. WOW! THat will DEF go on SUperman or Odin(whoever is my main guy). THanks for the heads up!!!

Also, I dont *think* I have immortus. If I posted somewhere that I did I must have made a mistake. Hes the green guy from SI right?

[canaaron]

Ok, since the big game is tomorrow I have a rough draft for a team here. They are:

HoT Ultron 174
HoT Valkyrie 145
HoT Loki 208
AA Chang Tzu 107
FF Lockjaw R 24
HoT Odin 295
CR Spectre 234
CR Chief 63
REV Paramedics 8-10-12
AV Scarlet Witch 35




You could throw Nova Blast on Ultron. He will do the damage and doesn't have to worry about the feedback. Shellhead + Protected is good on Odin and Spectre. Double-Time on Lockjaw. Inside Information on Odin.

[bigmac267]

Instead of Nova Blast on Ultron, you could also put Haymaker on him (or both). Haymaker would give Ultron a +2 damage for close combat at the loss of one attack, but he wouldn't take the feat damage due to Indomitable.

[Morand]

I think E-2 Superman and Black Adam would be a pretty potent combo as well as a good basis for a JSA theme team.

E-2 Leads the attack, and black adam (hopefully on click 2) comes in with a HSS heavy and finishes off whatever superman wounded. Adam gets a bonus to his attack thanks to Superman's Leading the Attack bonus and his free action attack next turn should finish off whatever they hit if black adam didn't

[canaaron]

Yeah, but he's not sure if he will have the Supes in time. Yes! to haymaker. That is by far my favorite feat ever. I used to run it on R Hawk ALL THE TIME. I would say run both. That makes Ultron ridiculously lethal. Can't base him because of the Haymaker, can't stay away because of the Nove Blast. NASTY!

[Stallion9769]

YES to all of that, I had to look up the feats to see what they did but the Haymaker and Nova Blast are def. going on Ultron and probably Odin too! Im still praying that I will get that E-2 Superman in time. Also, the doubletime on Lockjaw seems like a great idea! I read about Lockjaw on this forum, hes an amazing piece for the points and does what he is supposed to do better than anyone! Should I use fortitude on the Chief or Chang Tzu? I figure there will be alot of outwit on the field. And I would think it would be a big advantage to have my outwit blocked, seems like it would make it alot more powerful if it couldnt be undone?

[canaaron]

I wouldn't put those feats on odin because he has no way to avoid the feedback damage. Only indomitable blocks that feedback damage. As for the fortitude, I would put it on ultron, I would hate to see him all feated up and not able to use them.

[DarkCorsair]

Ok, since the big game is tomorrow I have a rough draft for a team here. They are:

HoT Ultron 174
HoT Valkyrie 145
HoT Loki 208
AA Chang Tzu 107
FF Lockjaw R 24
HoT Odin 295
CR Spectre 234
CR Chief 63
REV Paramedics 8-10-12
AV Scarlet Witch 35

As for feats I would probably use Brilliant Tactician on Chang Tzu(I read he can perplex down a foe by -2 and Perplex UP his whole team with this feat). Throw Fortitude on probably just Ultron(as Odin and Spectre have it built in).

Any adds/drops suggestions are much appreciated as well as help with what feats to use on who. This is where I really struggle. I dont hardly know any of them and I have no clue what feats work good with who and which figures really need this feat or that feat to really show their potential. After I get some help from you guys Im gonna post up my final team for evaluation. Also, after the tourney I will post the results of how I did(if anyone actually cares or wants to know). Thanks!!

A couple tips and a word of caution - Brilliant Tactician allows the perplexer to use perplex normally (like Chang's -2) and then perplex all friendly figs that he shares a keyword or team symbol with. As it stands, that's just the Chief, who doesn't really benefit from having the perplex around.

Haymaker & Nova Blast on Ultron are amazing, but I'd avoid them on Odin.

Fortitude isn't needed on Chang - his stealth should be enough to protect him, if you keep him in hindering terrain. Chief, in my opinion, also doesn't need fortitude. You should be leaving him in the back anyway, and the cost of Fortitude versus cost of the character is not good enough, in my opinion. Besides, unless you outwit all his powers, he'll have some good abilities on his dial.

If you can, I can't stress enough how useful it might be to have some cheap stealth. AA Street Thugs could work, due to their fairly long dials. They make good Mastermind fodder, and there's nothing more frustrating to the guy playing Thanos than having a stealth fig between his Psychic Blast and your Odin/Ultron. They also do a good job running into base with the opponent's ranged attackers to prevent them from shooting.

I might also be inclined to pull out the paramedic trio and sub in somebody like E Dr. Mid-nite. He can get some Spectre defense boost thanks to JSA, he is a better healer in terms of attack value, and he brings the ever useful powers of stealth and willpower (and some mid-dial perplex, if he gets hit a bit). The medics just don't do it for me with their low-ish AVs and your squad's generally high defense. If you don't have DM, go ahead and keep the medics, but he'd be my choice.

That's all I can come up with for now, and please take it or leave it as you like. You'll figure out the playing style you like best soon enough. As for me, I'm dreaming about the next 1200 point event I get to play in, as I have 12 Living Lasers that want to come out and play. :)

[canaaron]

A couple tips and a word of caution - Brilliant Tactician allows the perplexer to use perplex normally (like Chang's -2) and then perplex all friendly figs that he shares a keyword or team symbol with. As it stands, that's just the Chief, who doesn't really benefit from having the perplex around.

Yes.

Haymaker & Nova Blast on Ultron are amazing, but I'd avoid them on Odin.

YES!

Fortitude isn't needed on Chang - his stealth should be enough to protect him, if you keep him in hindering terrain. Chief, in my opinion, also doesn't need fortitude. You should be leaving him in the back anyway, and the cost of Fortitude versus cost of the character is not good enough, in my opinion. Besides, unless you outwit all his powers, he'll have some good abilities on his dial.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh - HUH!

If you can, I can't stress enough how useful it might be to have some cheap stealth. AA Street Thugs could work, due to their fairly long dials. They make good Mastermind fodder, and there's nothing more frustrating to the guy playing Thanos than having a stealth fig between his Psychic Blast and your Odin/Ultron. They also do a good job running into base with the opponent's ranged attackers to prevent them from shooting.

A good strategy, but if he/she is new to the game, they may want to avoid intricacies for the time being and go for brute force.

I might also be inclined to pull out the paramedic trio and sub in somebody like E Dr. Mid-nite. He can get some Spectre defense boost thanks to JSA, he is a better healer in terms of attack value, and he brings the ever useful powers of stealth and willpower (and some mid-dial perplex, if he gets hit a bit). The medics just don't do it for me with their low-ish AVs and your squad's generally high defense. If you don't have DM, go ahead and keep the medics, but he'd be my choice.

Great combo, saw it played at WWLA. Got DQ'd though cuz the guy assigned Lucky Break to Spectre.:eek::confused:

As for me, I'm dreaming about the next 1200 point event I get to play in, as I have 12 Living Lasers that want to come out and play. :)


wow.:bolt::a-sharpshooter:

[Stallion9769]

Awesome Tips! I just went back to re-read Brilliant Tactician. You saved me alot of pounding my face against the table when I found out(from another player who is laughing hysterically) It only worked for chief!! THANK YOU!! And the Haymaker and Nova Blast will not be used on Odin either. I thought Odins Power Cosmic would take care of the FB damage(new player mistake).

I will have to check on the E Dr. Midnite. I have 3 small boxes with my older stuff in them divided into ring color. THere is only 25-50 in each box(may have more than 50 rookies) so I doubt I do. He does sound MUCH better though.

The AA Street Thugs seem to be a goo idea but I am a little unclear on something. If a street thug(in stealth) is in front of X character who isnt in stealth he can block the attack? I thought that is the figure was in stealth the attack would just go through him into the guy who wasnt in stealth?

I will also put fortitude on Ultron. Good point - If hes feated up and gets outwitted then he was a waste of points. I love the fact that my 3 Main guys - Odin(assuming I dont get E-2 today), Ultron, and Spectre will NOT be able to be outwitted. I would think that is going to give me a huge advantage. Especially when at any time I could have 2 or 3of my opponents characters outwitted.

I feel like Perplex is going to be a very needed ability in this game. If one, or all 3, of my big attackers get hurt for some reason early, I am going to need that perplex to get thier AV's back up to where I can get past some of those defenses.

This isnt a World Championship, its not a local tourney, were not even playing for a prize. But it is very cool that I can still get help from people that know what their doing for a game that means nothing. So, thanks for that guys!

[WolvieFan9]

The AA Street Thugs seem to be a goo idea but I am a little unclear on something. If a street thug(in stealth) is in front of X character who isnt in stealth he can block the attack? I thought that is the figure was in stealth the attack would just go through him into the guy who wasnt in stealth?


Once Line of Fire (LOF) crosses a square that occupies a character using Stealth, it is blocked -- that LOF stops at that point. So the figure drawing LOF cannot target anyone behind this Stealthy character (unless there is a power or ability that allows it).

STEALTH Any line of fire drawn to this character that crosses hindering terrain, including a square of hindering terrain occupied by this character, is blocked.

[canaaron]

Perlpex is a great power and can make a difference, but in high point games like this one, it's not always necessary. Especially when there are more than two players in the game. Chances that you will be the only one limping are not likely. That being said, you can avoid getting your characters really banged on by keeping your team from being too spread out. This will probably keep your opponents' from wanting to engage you without being willing to lose a figure. You have the potential to deal out enough damage in one turn to KO any figure. Oh, and if anyone plays Galactus, I would suggest you propose a team-up.

[Vevilaughs]

In a game at this level most big hitters will have Impervious and/or Feats like Protected to ignore one attack.

That is why you need multiple Pulsewave pieces. I LOVE Nova Blast... not so much so that I can throw the blast and catch multiple targets, but because when people play against a piece with Nova Blast, they tend not group up.

Also, a figure with 1 damage and Pulsewave (Like Blizzard) is great at getting figures off their starting clicks.

Another way around Protected is to have someone with Multiple Incaps (like Count Vertigo) incap people so when you attack them for damage, they are at 2 tokens already or are at least 1 token on them and will push to use Protected.

You also may want to consider a long range barrier piece with Construct now that you can print and play. Throw up a barrier with construct so pieces can't run away... Blast at them next turn.

How do you pull that off? Get a 10 range barrier piece (like a green lantern) have them Barrier/Construct and then have some low level barrier piece (like Nightshade) barrier around your GL.

Last tip. Don't be afraid to examine your opponents pieces and the feats they are playing. You don't get to click through their dials, but know what you are immediately dealing with helps alot. Also, once you have dealt damage to a piece look at them again and make sure the feats you are dealing with are still effective and that the pre-reqs for the feats are still in play.

Just last week I played a guy that had put Lunge on Spiral. Now, I know Spiral starts off with Flurry and BCF so I thought that she might have gone into Leap Climb later in her dial. Turns out the guy just threw it on Spiral because he had the points left didn't realize she never meets the pre-reqs for the feat. He mad an honest mistake, but honest or not they can still cost you if you are not aware.