Ultron vs Firelord

[Perrin]

There have been posts galore about these two figs, I have posted several times for the Ultron camp. AZS did a neet thread where he rated each fig and posted a top 20. The funny thing to me and a lot of other players wasnt that Firelord was #1 but that Ultron wasnt even listed. It is all in fun, and it is only one persons oppinion against another persons oppinion. And except for dissing Ultron, I have agreed with AZS on a lot of his evaluations of the different figs and I even took a second look at some after reading his thoughts. I think he even handled the somewhat crazy and heated chatter about it afterwards very well.

Well I signed up for an On-line tournament. Build totals are 400 points all marvel. I wanted to do well so I built the team around the ultimate one, Ultron. In AZS's threads about what he didnt like about Ultron, he mostly felt that Ultron was either your whole team or he wasnt effective. Well he is dead on. The figs you have in your team had better be good at "enhancing" Ultron, because you dont have enough points to feild Ultron and another heavy hitter. This means no H2H attackers and no back up plan if Ultron goes down. So key to winning. Keep Ultron alive. This is the link to my Squad.
http://www.hcrealms.com/cgi-bin/quickviewteam.cgi?teamname=marvel400&username=Perrin&action=text
FYI I wouldnt suggest fielding a squad like this if you are just learning the game and do not have much experience.

My first round opponent fields...

U Nitecrawler, E Black Panther, E Dr. Strange, V Firelord, E Black Cat, U Wasp, V AIM medic, V AIM medic 397 points.

Irony of Ironies. Although he has only one FL he also has Nitecrawler. (Another person from this forum whom I like is Talon378 who feels that NC is very under priced, almost as underpriced as FL I didnt agree with him on this) But here I am facing two minis people like to complain about. I even told my opponent of all the chatter and thought this might be a good test to see which fig was superior. We played the game and I went through the logs and edited out the conversations and slimmed it down to just the action. I will post it on this thread for you all to see
P~

[Perrin]

E Ultron, V Doombot, E Dr strange, E Shield medic, V Aim medic, E Black Cat, V Avalanche, E Vulture, E Black Panther. 400 points.
Notes: pretty standard cheese Ultron team. It is all built around Ultron with the hope of getting a monster EE blast off at some point in the game via Shield and Dr Strange’s Enhancement. Its weakness is that if Ultron were Eliminated the team has nothing left.
VS
U Nitecrawler, E Black Panther, E Dr. Strange, V Firelord, E Black Cat, U Wasp, V AIM medic, V AIM medic 397 points.
Notes: I have read a lot of posts complaining about how Nitecrawler and Firelord are under priced. I looked at these two teams before we started and I didn’t think the Firelord squad had much of a chance. Wonder what your thoughts would have been?

Map is the standard outdoor intersection map. Accessed through http://www.creationmatrix.com

Objects:
Heavy = H-15 ~ L-17 ~ L-9
Light =N-12 ~ I- 23~ I 21

Team Ultron places:

Ultron a-15, Doombot b-16, Dr strange a16, shield medic a-20, aim medic a-19, Black Cat b-11, Avalanche a-18, Vulture b-15, Black Panther b-13

Team Firelord places:

Black panther w-12, Firelord x-14, wasp w-14, Nitecrawler w-11, strange w-10, Blackcat w-18, aim medic#1 x-9, aim medic#2 x-8

Turn 1
Team Ultron moves:
Shield medic moves to g-16, Aim Medic moves to e-20, Black Cat moves to d-7, Avalanche moves to f-17.

Team Firelord moves:
Black panther to N-12, Nitecrawler to L- 8, Dr strange to Q-12, Black Cat to P-18

Notes: both position moves. Both players understand how important the first strike is. I would not have moved NC into harms way, but perhaps my opponent was trying to goad me forward.

Turn 2
Team Ultron moves:
Black Panther to g -14. outwit hypersonic clear tokens from everyone else

Team Firelord moves:
Aim medic 1 to R-9, Aim medic 2 to t-9, clear everyone else

Notes: Each player takes another turn waiting for the other to commit first

Turn 3
Team Ultron moves:
Doombot misses leadership roll & Black Panther outwits super senses on Nitecrawler @Vulture carries Ultron (vulture to h 16 and Ultron to h-15), @Doombot carries D strange (mimicing the brotherhood free move) Doombot f 15 Strange g15, @Dr strange takes a shot at Nitecrawler: Roll =2 (critical miss but re roll with Black Cats probability) Re-Roll=7 (hit Nitecrawler takes 4 clicks) (Ultron and Doombot mimic hydra giving Dr strange an AV of 12 vs. Nitecrawlers 18 plus 1 for hindering terrain). @Ultron fires at Nitecrawler (Ultron's AV is 13 vs. Nitecrawlers DV is 15 +1 for hindering terrain needs a 3) Roll = 6. (Nitecrawler takes 3 clicks for a total of 7 and is KOed)
Avalanche drops a barrier at m 13,14,15 and 16. Black Panther clears
Actions on: Ultron@, Doombot@, Dr Strange@ and Vulture@.
Notes: I could have moved in a way that Firelord would not have been able to take a shot at Ultron, if he had two FL’s instead of just the one, I would have played differently. But as it was I wanted him to bring up FL and the only way to do it was to give him the first strike. I have 2 medics and Ultron is very easy to heal. The barriers block LoS from both Dr Strange and Black Panther.
Team Firelord moves:
Black Panther to L-9 (outwits Ultron’s invul)
Wasp carries FL she goes to Q-9, he goes to P-9 (wasp moves free)
Firelord has 13 AV vs. Ultron’s 19 DV (18 +1 for hindering terrain) roll = 10 ( Ultron takes 5 clicks) Dr Strange goes to L-17, Black Cat moves to P-17, clear tokens off both medics
Actions on: Wasp@, Firelord@, Dr Strange@, Black Cat@ and Black Panther@
Notes: Well booyaa FL got in the first strike! Without Ultron this team is nothing! i look at the crow sandwich over on the counter, at the same time I am looking at my medics and FL’s lack of range. I feel confident that I can get Ultron back near full in two turns and return fire.
Turn 4
Team Ultron moves:
Doombot fails leadership roll, Black Cat (free move from brotherhood) a-15
Dr Strange will push to carry Ultron (DS to g-17 Ultron to h 17) (Dr Strange takes 1 click), Ultron fires at Dr Strange needing an 8 (AV 11 vs. DV of 16 + 2 with Energy Deflection + 1 for hindering terrain) Roll=3 (Miss) (Ultron takes1 click for a total 6) Shield Medic attemps healing on Ultron Roll= 6 heal roll =1 Re-Roll= 4 via Black Cat’s PC. (Ultron has 2 clicks total). Vulture pushes to carry Ultron (Vulture takes 1 click) Vulture f 19 Ultron e-19) Doombot and Avalanche clear.
Actions on: Ultron @@, Dr Strange @@, Vulture @@, Black Cat @ and the Shield Medic@.
Notes: it is a good thing I fielded a PC figure. I am not rolling very well. I am so distracted that I don’t even use BP’s outwit on anything.

Team Firelord moves:
Wasp pushes to carry Firelord, Wasp at I-14 Firelord at H-14 (wasp takes 1 click) Firelord hits Black Panther Roll=6 (double threes) Black Panther takes 3 damage and is knocked back to D-14 (Black Panther has 3 clicks total) Firelord takes 1 click for pushing. Black panther outwits the Doombots Energy Explosion. All others clear.
Actions on: Firelord @@, Wasp @@.
Notes: I looked at this as a blunder when we were playing the game. But as I thought about it afterwards, I am not sure what else he could have done. My position on the roof was very strong. He would be severely disadvantaged in a ranged war.
Turn 5
Team Ultron moves:
Aim Medic attempts to heal Ultron. Roll= 4 (using Black Cats Probability Control) Re-Roll= 8 heals for 4 clicks (Ultron is back to full) Black Panther moves to E 14. All others clear
Actions: Aim Medic@, Black Panther@ (3 clicks)

Team Firelord moves:
Dr Strange moves to H-15, Aim Medic #1 to O-12, Aim Medic #2 O-9, Black Cat to H-20. All others clear.
Actions: Dr Strange, Aim Medic#1, Aim Medic #2, Black Cat.
Notes: Not a bad move, he took away Ultron’s destination Square, and sort of offered himself as a sacrifice in hope of keeping Firelord from being targeted. But this is where the Wildcards and all those team abilities come into play.

Turn 6
Team Ultron moves:
Doombot fails leadership roll:rolleyes:. Vulture carries ultron (Vulture to e-11 ultron to e-10), Dr Strange to d-11, Doombot carries the sheild medic (free move via brotherhood) to f-10 Medic to e-9, Doombot mimics Hydra to make Ultron’s AV a 14. The Shield Medic makes a move action to up Ultrons damage And Dr Strange “Enhances” Ultron’s attack. Ultron makes a ranged attack using energy Explosion and targets Wasp and Firelord. Roll#1= 5, Roll#2=10 wasp and Firelord each take 3 clicks plus 3 clicks Splash Damage. Wasp is KOed and FireLord has 7 clicks total), avalanche to g-16 moving B2B with Dr Strange, and Black Cat to G-14 moving B2B with Firelord.
Actions on: Ultron@, Dr Strange@, Black Cat@, Shield Medic@, Doombot@, Avalanche@ and Vulture@.

Notes: I felt really bad about this move. My opponent did not really understand how devastating EE could be. I had to show him the FAQ. And he quit afterwards with very few words.
Team Firelord concedes the game.

I am sure this proves nothing, but please note that these were teams designed for tournament play, not to face eachother. In the end Firelord is 92 points and Ultron is 139. Ultron has the best team affiliation FL has none, Ultron has one of the most devastating powers in the game EE (think about all the IG teams you see now and wait until Psylock is out) Firelord has one of the most overated powers in the game RCE. 8 range vs 10, 2 arrows vs 1. All of that means nothing if you dont play the figure correctly. But again this is just my oppinion :D
P~

PS I will post a recap if I loose a game in the tourney to a team that isnt built around Ultron.

[Heretic]

I am a E ultron fan as well and one trick I like is to flank him w/ V Bullseye and E Boomerang and use the Spider sindicate ability to up both of their attacks to 13 and then add a R Invisible girl to give them a 18 defence (20 against ranged for Bullseye) Killer.

[Jay10]

I actually think Vet. Dr. Doom is better then Ex. Ultron. Doom is 59 more points but his great stats and many Super Powers make him worth everyone. The Ultron/Doombot combo works well, but Doombot usually ends up as nothing more then a taxi for Ultron. With Dr. Doom, Doombot is still an effective taxi but can also attack(or use the S.H.I.E.L.D. team ability) frequently(thanks to Doom's Running Shot).

Though I have only played a Dr. Doom/Doombot team in 300pt. Marvel/DC games, I assume he would be just as effective in a 400pt. pure Marvel game.

[Funky Jett]

Go Puppetron! I just love that pair up. I used Ultron, Puppet Master, Exp Doc Oc (among several others) in a tourney yesterday. My first game was against a typical cheese FL/Bullseye team. He managed a painful shot with Bullseye at one point, but I took him our with V Whirlwind. Later, I managed to MC his FL using my Puppetron combo. I made him push and shoot and kill his own Vulture (his taxi), then later I pushed him again to put a massive shot on Kang. I overheard him telling his friend later about how I used his own FL against him and how he never even got a shot off from FL.

[Phil Dixon]

Originally posted by Jay10
I actually think Vet. Dr. Doom is better then Ex. Ultron. I've just pulled Perrin in the 500 point crossover tournament, and I'm playing Doom. So we may find out!

[Perrin]

You know for the 500 point crossover I started out with V Doom. But Ultron has a higher AV, although Doom has better powers. Cant wait to play =)

[Jay10]

Originally posted by Phil Dixon
I've just pulled Perrin in the 500 point crossover tournament, and I'm playing Doom. So we may find out!

It should be interesting to see what happens, especially since it's a high point mixed game. I used the Superman Enemy team ability to great effect in my 300pt. Doom Team. But since it's a 500pt. game, the Superman and Batman team abilities might also come into play. Any way, I'm rooting for Doom, please post what ends up happening in the game.

[Perrin]

unless Phill asks me not to, I will post a recap of the game. We have finished three turns already and he is ahead on points (He KOed Nightwing on turn one so no bat team for Ultron and no outwiter) We will get more in tommorow hopefully.

P~

[Thunderbolts]

Just to get a little off topic, where is this tournament, and where was it announced? I would have been interested, sigh.

[Perrin]

Here is the link for the tourney, you can track results ect. There is a new Tourney for March.

http://webpages.charter.net/abenjen/

P~

[Phil Dixon]

Originally posted by Perrin
unless Phill asks me not to, I will post a recap of the game. No, feel free. By the way, I was that keen for my bed this morning I forgot to say Catwoman Outwits Ultron's EE. Hope you don't mind if I do it now.

[Perrin]

No, feel free. By the way, I was that keen for my bed this morning I forgot to say Catwoman Outwits Ultron's EE. Hope you don't mind if I do it now.

I was gonna ask you if you meant to use outwit when we started again. Sure Ultie's EE is outwitted. I was wondering why you bunched everyone up like that lol. Makes the choice of my next action a little easier.
P~

[Phil Dixon]

Cheers, mate. It's sad, but mys first thought as I woke this morning was, must Outwit Ultron!

[Perrin]

well I messed up and forgot to save the 2nd half of the game, if Phil sends me a copy I will edit it with notes ect. In the end though Ultron came out on top.

Although I guess you could take Ultron out of my team and replace him with V doom, and rework the support figs to make the points come out. But I dont see where that would improve the squad any. So for now it is


One Ultron to RULE them ALL!!

P~

[Invis-slayer]

I went 3-0 at a tourney with an Ultron team not so long ago.
300 pt
E-Ultron
V-Doombot
E-Strange
V-Shield Sniper
V-AIM Medic
?-Shield medic

Obvious it is how one is supposed to play it, but one thing that alot of people dont understand about the team is how to use the strange... Now this is kind of assuming your opponent moves relatively far into the board on his 1st/2nd turns, but the KEY to any E-Ultron team is to PUSH THE STRANGE..and fast...sure he loses his damage...but in the process[you should be attacking on the push] he will likely do his 4 damage[he should get +2 to AV if you can set up right with doombot/ultron on either side of him], but anyways..basically the idea is to end the game on the 2nd turn with enhanced/shield'ed ultron EE, but you all knew that already!!! So everyone...push the Strange!!!

Also on disclaimer about Ultron teams..they are CRAZY weak to themselves...so if you ever face one with your own...dont play the clump game...get the ultron in and smoke the strange, and hopefully thier ulty[with your strange], if you can deal 3 clicks to their Strange they are gonna have a hard time coming back from it.