"We've got your backs" article. Buy it by the brick.

[ThwartHog]

From the Wizkids site. By Justin.
Titled: We've got your backs
Jan. 14th

Buy it By the Brick

To understand why we moved away from the in-store program it is important to understand our one of our goals for the program – We want to reward consumers who purchase a brick with a unique, compelling figure. As such, it is likely that the Brick figures may be larger, heavier and cost significantly more to produce than a “regular” figure.

In the case of Hammer of Thor, we were fortunate that we could create a reasonably sized alternative to the original Chariot Brick figure so that we could produce them in sufficient quantity to have a successful in-store program and keep shipping cost to a minimum.

The mail away model we are using for TB&TB is similar to previous BBB redemptions except that if demand should exceed supply, we will ensure that customers who redeem their figures within a certain timeframe will receive an unnumbered Brick fig. We’ll let everyone let everyone know what the reprint timeframe is should it become an issue.

Please go back to the in-store program. In my opinion, the size and weight of the BBB fig is not what us customers/players are interested in. It is the uniqueness of another distinct original fig or dial. We do not want a larger heavier fig that costs more to produce and ship. A normal sized fig is more than acceptable. Even a remake of the regular set fig with a different paint job and dial is perfect. Or even just a different dial if it costs too much to paint them differently.

The HOT in-store BBB Surtur fig, was so much easier for us (the customer) to get in our hands. The process of cutting out upc barcodes, and paying the postage, and mailing them in, and waiting for the fig to arrive in the mail, is not a reward to the customers, it is a hassle.

Since the HOT set came out, I haven't heard anyone complain that they would prefer the mail-in method over the in-store method of delivering BBB figs. Mostly, I've heard the opposite.

I would love to see a poll on what the Realmsers would prefer and why. I may be in the minority on this, but I'm curious to hear what anyone else thinks.

[The Vision]

In store is the way to go.

[Shellhead's Pal]

The HOT in-store BBB Surtur fig, was so much easier for us (the customer) to get in our hands. The process of cutting out upc barcodes, and paying the postage, and mailing them in, and waiting for the fig to arrive in the mail, is not a reward to the customers, it is a hassle.
I agree with this completely. The only thing the in-store model hurts is the monetary value of the piece itself. Since I am a consumer, and the bottom line for me is the attainability of the pieces, I don't care if my piece is "worth more". I see the mail-in-model merely driving up prices and making me jump through hoops (especially around tax day...yuck).

[tidge]

I prefer regular-sized figures to larger figures, especially those with larger bases.

I also liked getting the BibtB figure when I bought my brick.

As an aside, I can think of an example where IMO I'd rather not have had the 'extra large' figure: I'd have greatly preferred if the "Clown Prince of Crime" Brick figure was a matched set of three individual standard dials rather than one huge 2x2 dial. The extra-large base isn't doing that figure any favors, YMMV.

[thefreeman]

I agree that the brick figure doesn't have to be large just special.

Being able to pick up the figure at the store with a coupon is of course easier, but I'd still mail it in if the figures was worth it.

The biggest thing to me is letting everyone get the brick figure no matter if they bought the brick at a store or online. Now that would be a valuable change. You could even go so far as saying it's about how many you buy total not just at one time. This way some kid can save up his UPC codes until he has enough to get the special prize. It should be about having fun for everyone! Not just for those who buy cilx one particular way.

[Nickel97]

From the Wizkids site. By Justin.
The process of cutting out upc barcodes, and paying the postage, and mailing them in, and waiting for the fig to arrive in the mail, is not a reward to the customers, it is a hassle.


Agreed! and the annoyance of feeling like you had to buy your brick the minute it was released and overnight-mail your coupon if you wanted to have a chance at getting your figure quickly (or at all).

[simonexus]

Agreed with the OP on all points.

[hair10]

Agree.

filler

[rorschachknew]

STRONGLY agreed

[Jarimy123]

I would love to see a poll on what the Realmsers would prefer and why. I may be in the minority on this, but I'm curious to hear what anyone else thinks.

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268088

Right now the mailaway method is ahead 70-64. So as of yesterday more people want a mailaway with a new sculpt.

[jbship628]

At least they gave a valid reason for their going with the mail-in route. They could have just said, "This is how we are doing it and that's that." I appreciate their reasoning, even if some people don't like it as much.

Not to mention, in at least 3 stores I've gone in, I've seen the BBB Surtur on sale all by itself. Probably due to stores not getting any brick buyers and still having these figures to get rid of. Now, some may say "What's the big deal?" The deal to me is, that's not the purpose of that figure, and that has nothing to do with rarity or value or anything of that nature.

[KillerSavage]

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268088

Right now the mailaway method is ahead 70-64. So as of yesterday more people want a mailaway with a new sculpt.
That poll is worded horribly as an example of how people would feel. Mail away for a new fig or in store with a remade fig. Where is the strait up mail away or in store poll?

That is actually an interesting poll. See if people value a sculpt over the dial but for this thread it's a bit off from the topic.

[Jarimy123]

That poll is worded horribly as an example of how people would feel. Mail away for a new fig or in store with a remade fig. Where is the strait up mail away or in store poll?

That is actually an interesting poll. See if people value a sculpt over the dial but for this thread it's a bit off from the topic.

Off topic for this thread? Hahaha, yea ok.

[Jarimy123]

t's exactly what this thread is about.

Wizkids is saying they want the brick figure to be a really cool sculpt, wanted figure, that is usually bigger and better than any figure in the set.

In order for that to happy it would need to be a mail away figure, not one they can send with the bricks.

The other option is to have a figure that is the same sculpt as one in the set, but different stats or whatever.

The poll is stating "what would you rather have" and give the two examples above. Which is exactly what this thread is about. And people would rather have the mail away than the in store one that is the same sculpt.

[Ed0825]

From the Wizkids site. By Justin.
Titled: We've got your backs
Since the HOT set came out, I haven't heard anyone complain that they would prefer the mail-in method over the in-store method of delivering BBB figs. Mostly, I've heard the opposite.
.


Sorry, I got to disagree. I prefer the mail in method because it creates a greater value for the figure on the secondary market which helps me defray the cost of my set. My goal has always been to get each set for as close to $0 as possible. I do that by buying multiple cases, selling the excesses, and using the BiBtB program and the old Action packs to my advantage. So, if or when this game dies again, I'm only out time and effort, but not hundreds/thousands of dollars for my set.

That is just the way I look at it.

[csi]

t's exactly what this thread is about.

Wizkids is saying they want the brick figure to be a really cool sculpt, wanted figure, that is usually bigger and better than any figure in the set.

In order for that to happy it would need to be a mail away figure, not one they can send with the bricks.

The other option is to have a figure that is the same sculpt as one in the set, but different stats or whatever.

The poll is stating "what would you rather have" and give the two examples above. Which is exactly what this thread is about. And people would rather have the mail away than the in store one that is the same sculpt.

the is also the option of getting a smaller figure in store. Figures like the Mandarin, Phantom Stranger, Cosmic Doom were all different sculpts but small enough to fit the idea of point of purchase pick up.

That being said while I loved being able to pick up my brick figure at the store and not having to rip off box bottoms, I would much rather do that and get an awesome brick figure like the Chariot or the Batman/Catwoman duo.

[Jarimy123]

the is also the option of getting a smaller figure in store. Figures like the Mandarin, Phantom Stranger, Cosmic Doom were all different sculpts but small enough to fit the idea of point of purchase pick up.

That being said while I loved being able to pick up my brick figure at the store and not having to rip off box bottoms, I would much rather do that and get an awesome brick figure like the Chariot or the Batman/Catwoman duo.

Yea i hear you on that, as far as figs like Krytpo and Venom too. But I, like you, would also have a really awesome figure.

Trust me guys I would like to have both things - awesome bigger fig and be able to get it in store - but we don't have that option.

[hanzoslash]

I will be the first to say here that if the next marvel set is mutant based, and they want to give us a 2x2 base sized Apocalypse as a mail away, I am all for it. I kinda like being able to get things that do not fit in a standard booster as a mail away. If they want to let me do that for buying a brick I am cool with that. I will also just purchase one in a store outright. The in store redemption is nice, but I would rather get something special for free that would not normally fit in a booster.

[RavenProject]

That poll is worded horribly as an example of how people would feel. Mail away for a new fig or in store with a remade fig. Where is the strait up mail away or in store poll?

That is actually an interesting poll. See if people value a sculpt over the dial but for this thread it's a bit off from the topic.
There isn't a "strait up mail away or in store poll" because the answer to that is fairly obvious. We all want instant gratification, and none of us want to pay the shipping/handling charge.

Justin explained in his article that the mailaway is a necessary evil in order to provide "special" figures like World's Finest, Clown Prince of Crime or Thor's Mighty Chariot. It is not economically feasible for them to produce figures like that in the quantities necessary for point-of-purchase delivery.

So that's what I was trying to gauge. If the choice is between special figures as mailaways or not-as-special figures with purchase, which would the player base prefer?

-J

[Jarimy123]

There isn't a "strait up mail away or in store poll" because the answer to that is fairly obvious. We all want instant gratification, and none of us want to pay the shipping/handling charge.

Justin explained in his article that the mailaway is a necessary evil in order to provide "special" figures like World's Finest, Clown Prince of Crime or Thor's Mighty Chariot. It is not economically feasible for them to produce figures like that in the quantities necessary for point-of-purchase delivery.

So that's what I was trying to gauge. If the choice is between special figures as mailaways or not-as-special figures with purchase, which would the player base prefer?

-J

Exactly my point. Rep.

[RavenProject]

the is also the option of getting a smaller figure in store. Figures like the Mandarin, Phantom Stranger, Cosmic Doom were all different sculpts but small enough to fit the idea of point of purchase pick up.
I can't find the reference, but I believe it was once revealed that creating a sculpt and mold was the highest expense for a set. (If someone can prove or disprove, please do so.) Therefore, it still may not be economically viable for them to produce and distribute.

-J

[mcrounds]

I prefer the special mail away figures. To say that they're a hassle, and not a reward to the customer seems a little entitled to me. To cut out the codes, fill out the form, and mail it out takes around half an hour (ten minutes if you drop by the post office on your way somewhere else). That doesn't seem like a huge investment of time.

[Jarimy123]

[QUOTE=mcrounds;4505263] To say that they're a hassle, and not a reward to the customer seems a little entitled to me. [QUOTE]

Entitlement from these people??? No way....:noid::cheeky:

[The_Atom]

My goal has always been to get each set for as close to $0 as possible. I do that by buying multiple cases, selling the excesses, and using the BiBtB program and the old Action packs to my advantage.
That is just the way I look at it.

This makes me sad. The main reason this game would die is because it would become too expensive to be competitive. This game should be about fun, not the price of your collection. It's bad enough we already have chase figures running around with 100 dollar price tags. Personally, I hate Chase figures. I don't want to have to buy 4 cases to get every figure in the set, and I also don't want to pay another 5 dollars shipping(which should be closer to 3) so I can get something that I already had to pay 75+ dollars for. It's ridiculous and a sad way to make that extra 2 dollars per brick. It's bad enough a lot of vendors pack their collections by taking advantage of their wholesale cost of cases, bust them, and sale them on ebay or presale figures on ebay. That just makes me sick. If you want to sell your figures, fine that's cool. I've done it. But don't ruin the experience for everybody else because you think you need to sell your figs. How about you just don't buy tge 4 cases. Also, I'm willing to bet you weren't one of the people that got screwed out of a World's Finest because you didn't mail the UPCs out the day before the set was supposed to be RELEASED. I was, and it WAS NOT COOL.

[KillerSavage]

t's exactly what this thread is about.

Wizkids is saying they want the brick figure to be a really cool sculpt, wanted figure, that is usually bigger and better than any figure in the set.

In order for that to happy it would need to be a mail away figure, not one they can send with the bricks.

The other option is to have a figure that is the same sculpt as one in the set, but different stats or whatever.

The poll is stating "what would you rather have" and give the two examples above. Which is exactly what this thread is about. And people would rather have the mail away than the in store one that is the same sculpt.
If this is the case then what's up with the Brave and the Bold figure? From the previews it's only on a peanut base. So why is this one a mail away? Don't give me the either or stuff.

[Jarimy123]

If this is the case then what's up with the Brave and the Bold figure? From the previews it's only on a peanut base. So why is this one a mail away? Don't give me the either or stuff.

It's on a double base - but I don't think it takes a genius to look at the sculpt with a huge bat symbol with a catwoman on top to realize that it's a tad bit bigger and heavier than figures found in a booster.

Again come with something substantial, your arguments are weak bro.

[Wade Wilson]

i think the thing is without the mail away part, we won't get anything like the clown prince of crime, or world's finest, nor Thor's Mighty Chariot (was supposed to be the brick fig for HoT) but rather stuff like Surtur and the stuff we used to get...

[The_Atom]

i think the thing is without the mail away part, we won't get anything like the clown prince of crime, or world's finest, nor Thor's Mighty Chariot (was supposed to be the brick fig for HoT) but rather stuff like Surtur and the stuff we used to get...

Which is fine by me. :)

[hair10]

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268088

Right now the mailaway method is ahead 70-64. So as of yesterday more people want a mailaway with a new sculpt.

And I'd like to point out this poll...

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266482

[Perplexinator]

I don't really care what the brick figure is. I don't have a single one and would appreciate having one to begin with.

[KillerSavage]

It's on a double base - but I don't think it takes a genius to look at the sculpt with a huge bat symbol with a catwoman on top to realize that it's a tad bit bigger and heavier than figures found in a booster.

Again come with something substantial, your arguments are weak bro.
I don't think it is much bigger than surtur is.

[Neverfate]

I rather go without seeing larger figs. As is, I haven't kept a mail away from the game since probably Dark Beast (such an awesome piece). I would rather get them, then send away for something that I will end up ot holding on to for more than a couple games before getting bored of it. However, I don't think people switch up their figures as fast as I do and that's OK.

Also, if the in-store BBB program DOES continue, I really need to stress that only brick and motor stores should get them. That was part of the original idea and it should continue.

[Sgt Grimes]

Either way as long as people outside the US are able to get them........

[The_Atom]

And I'd like to point out this poll...

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266482

nice! Thanks Karl

[Jarimy123]

And I'd like to point out this poll...

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266482

Yea I think EVERYONE can agree that we all would like to have the in-store brick program. Who in their right mind wouldn't?? That isn't the point I was making. the point that is being made is that Wizkids wants to make the brick figure to be a larger, heavier, in general figure. Not a figure that is the same sculpt as one in the set already.

[Miraclo]

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268088

Right now the mailaway method is ahead 70-64. So as of yesterday more people want a mailaway with a new sculpt. I almost didn't bother to vote in that poll because it was so ridiculously lopsided in its choices, as if we wouldn't be able to get a new sculpt as an in-store item. It's a set of false choices and buries the real issue by setting it up so that we were choosing between whether or not we wanted a new sculpt -- which has nothing to do with whether or not the BibtB figure is shipped at the rate of 2 per case or has to be mailed away for separately.

I would do without World's Finest (horrible idea - I passed on even trying for it), half-heartedly went for Clown Prince of Crime (interesting idea, creatively executed, but I've never bothered to use mine) and Thor's Chariot (I've had it for months and still haven't used it) if it meant that instead of mailing away (with shipping and "handling" fees) for one of those I could get a piece at the same time as I've bought my brick with no additional charge or wait. If I went through the rest of this game with few to none 2x2 based pieces - and those being Action Pack centerpiece figures - I'd be happy about it.

Is the mail-away element a deal-breaker for me? No. I've sent off for all but one of the pieces, and would likely do so again -- though the Batman/Catwoman Duo piece is likely to be another "pass" for me unless I just decide I want it for potential trading. If the manufacture of another sculpt truly is a major issue (which means that part of the money they're hitting us for "shipping and handling" is actually and clearly intended to compensate them for the manufacture, so it's not "free", but merely discounted) then I'd even be in favor of them making the BibtB piece one of the pieces removed from the 60, so that only 59 of the 60 are booster-pullable.

[dariusq]

Please go back to the in-store program. In my opinion, the size and weight of the BBB fig is not what us customers/players are interested in. It is the uniqueness of another distinct original fig or dial. We do not want a larger heavier fig that costs more to produce and ship. A normal sized fig is more than acceptable. Even a remake of the regular set fig with a different paint job and dial is perfect. Or even just a different dial if it costs too much to paint them differently.

Agreed. Personally having colossal size bases is not a benefit to me because storage/transport of said figures becomes an issue. As cool as the larger base figs are they're also a pain to bring around when everything else fits neatly in a tackle box. A unique fig need not be large to be attractive looking or special, just playable and have a good sculptor. Some of the more mundane figs in HoT were at least well detailed.

[2Face]

I'm apparently in the minority, but I would rather pay the shipping and handling for a really cool sculpt and a special fig than just get a reused (even if slightly different) sculpt. I have a problem with the mail aways if not everyone gets the figure after making the proper purchase (like WF), but Wizkids is apparently trying to fix that. A lot of players are willing to pay a significant amount for special figures (convention figures, Thor's chariot, and even Sentinels and Anti-Monitor are proof of that), so I feel that to be able to get a really visually impressive figure for the cost of shipping is a steal. I don't see how it is any more of a hassle to mail-away for these figures when players have done similar or more complicated things to get the figures they want, such as ordering Wizards mail-away characters, attending conventions, going to the secondary market, or even trading for figures they want. This seems simple compared to a lot of that.

It would be great to get these larger, impressive figures in the store, but Wizkids has decided that it isn't cost effective for them to do that (whether we agree or disagree with that seems besides the point since Wizkids has made their decision). If I have to sacrifice getting the figure in store in order to get a better figure, I'm more than willing to do that.

I should add that I'm more of of a collector at this point since I have no where to play. That makes the visual aspect of the characters a lot more important than storage or even playability.

[Jarimy123]

I'm apparently in the minority, but I would rather pay the shipping and handling for a really cool sculpt and a special fig than just get a reused (even if slightly different) sculpt. I have a problem with the mail aways if not everyone gets the figure after making the proper purchase (like WF), but Wizkids is apparently trying to fix that. A lot of players are willing to pay a significant amount for special figures (convention figures, Thor's chariot, and even Sentinels and Anti-Monitor are proof of that), so I feel that to be able to get a really visually impressive figure for the cost of shipping is a steal. I don't see how it is any more of a hassle to mail-away for these figures when players have done similar or more complicated things to get the figures they want, such as ordering Wizards mail-away characters, attending conventions, going to the secondary market, or even trading for figures they want. This seems simple compared to a lot of that.

It would be great to get these larger, impressive figures in the store, but Wizkids has decided that it isn't cost effective for them to do that (whether we agree or disagree with that seems besides the point since Wizkids has made their decision). If I have to sacrifice getting the figure in store in order to get a better figure, I'm more than willing to do that.

I should add that I'm more of of a collector at this point since I have no where to play. That makes the visual aspect of the characters a lot more important than storage or even playability.

Not really much a minority. There are a lot of people who would prefer this too. And it looks like Wizkids is going to do it that way anyway.

[Hesster56]

I've still got my backs and receipts and forms from a case worth of Crisis. Until they make good on that, I will always prefer the figure to come with the brick.

Yes, that old axe I have sitting around here is very, very sharp from all this grinding.

[2Face]

Not really much a minority. There are a lot of people who would prefer this too. And it looks like Wizkids is going to do it that way anyway.

Well, I posted after reading the first page, which was predominately people agreeing with the OP ;) I'll read more of the thread next time before posting. :laugh:

[ThwartHog]

Yea I think EVERYONE can agree that we all would like to have the in-store brick program. Who in their right mind wouldn't?? That isn't the point I was making. the point that is being made is that Wizkids wants to make the brick figure to be a larger, heavier, in general figure. Not a figure that is the same sculpt as one in the set already.

If, in fact the consumers would prefer a normal size fig instead of a larger, heavier one, if that meant they could get it in-store instead of mail-in. It would be nice if Wizkids would take the customers wishes into account when making these decisions.

It sounds like they assume everyone wants a big heavy BBB fig, and therefore feel they have to offer it by mail because it would add too much weight and bulk to the shipment of Heroclix bricks (which I doubt it would add very much).

It is obvious that overwhelmingly most Heroclix buyers would like to get the BBB fig in-store. Some prefer mail-in because they want a big shiny toy on a big shiny base. If they want to make Large bulky figs, I'm sure they could make and sell them separately, and a lot of players would buy them. Almost all BBB figs to date have been normal single based figs, and they were all mail-in until HOT. And HOT in-store method was a big hit.

Why not keep them small and keep them in-store. The Big figs can always be sold separately. IMO.

[spike1138]

If, in fact the consumers would prefer a normal size fig instead of a larger, heavier one, if that meant they could get it in-store instead of mail-in. It would be nice if Wizkids would take the customers wishes into account when making these decisions.

It sounds like they assume everyone wants a big heavy BBB fig, and therefore feel they have to offer it by mail because it would add too much weight and bulk to the shipment of Heroclix bricks (which I doubt it would add very much).

It is obvious that overwhelmingly most Heroclix buyers would like to get the BBB fig in-store. Some prefer mail-in because they want a big shiny toy on a big shiny base. If they want to make Large bulky figs, I'm sure they could make and sell them separately, and a lot of players would buy them. Almost all BBB figs to date have been normal single based figs, and they were all mail-in until HOT. And HOT in-store method was a big hit.

Why not keep them small and keep them in-store. The Big figs can always be sold separately. IMO.

Yeah, I can agree with this.

[WhoaDirty]

I'd be curious to know if this is a cost cutting measure to save WK some money in the long run. We know from the case numbering that WK produced at least 17,400 BiBtB Surturs. I'd be willing to bet that they don't even get half that many mail-in coupons - that's a fair amount of $ saved in production and shipping costs.

[Jarimy123]

If, in fact the consumers would prefer a normal size fig instead of a larger, heavier one, if that meant they could get it in-store instead of mail-in. It would be nice if Wizkids would take the customers wishes into account when making these decisions.


You are basing that it is overwhelming that everyone wants to be able to get the figure in store off of hair10's poll correct? Ok.

There is also the poll asking if people would rather have the figure be a mail away and have a different sculpt not in the set, or an instore figure but be slightly different. Which is showing that is is about 50/50 split as of right now.

So your above statement isn't correct, it's actually an even split of what people want on the realms.

It's so easy to state things because stuff in a current thread have a bunch of people who frequent the realms are going one way, which is about 4 or 5 people on the thread. The poll has had over 140 people vote, so it's more fact than this thread.

[Jarimy123]

I will say this - if they end up going back to figures like Krypto, Venom, Dark Beast, and the like - then they should definitely go back to in-store.

But someone else brought up a good point - they will save a big amount of money by doing the mailaway.

[ThwartHog]

You are basing that it is overwhelming that everyone wants to be able to get the figure in store off of hair10's poll correct? Ok.

There is also the poll asking if people would rather have the figure be a mail away and have a different sculpt not in the set, or an instore figure but be slightly different. Which is showing that is is about 50/50 split as of right now.

So your above statement isn't correct, it's actually an even split of what people want on the realms.

It's so easy to state things because stuff in a current thread have a bunch of people who frequent the realms are going one way, which is about 4 or 5 people on the thread. The poll has had over 140 people vote, so it's more fact than this thread.

No. not incorrect. All I said is that most buyers would like to get their BBB fig in-store. Period. That is true. As for the poll you sited, I do not think there were enough choices to choose from. Whoever created that poll would make a great political pollster because if you control the options, you can slant a poll's results. If there was an option for in-store, new sculpt, that was not big and heavy (like Wizkids thinks they are rewarding us with) , I think that option would get a lot of votes.

[ThwartHog]

I will say this - if they end up going back to figures like Krypto, Venom, Dark Beast, and the like - then they should definitely go back to in-store.

But someone else brought up a good point - they will save a big amount of money by doing the mailaway.

Exactly. They save money by overcharging for S and H and they make a certain amount of profit on each transaction. How is that rewarding us for buying an entire brick of Heroclix boosters. Sounds like they just found a way to get a little more money out of you, and make you think they are doing you a favor.

How does the expression go? " Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining..."

[MooKow]

personally, I love the in store for 1 simple fact this is the first time that I got a brick fig without having to mail in the upc's and wait patiently to receive a sorry we ran out letter from wizkids, or buy one at an unreasonable price

[malakim2099]

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268088

Right now the mailaway method is ahead 70-64. So as of yesterday more people want a mailaway with a new sculpt.

Which is a meaningless poll that doesn't answer the OPs question.

Because saying you can have either:

A. An original sculpt BUT it can only be mailaway

or

B. You can have a derivative sculpt as in-store acquisition

Is a false choice. At least, the Chariots of Thor came out before the HOT bricks did. I fail to see a reason why you can't have a new sculpt produced in time. Particularly as you now only have 55 figs a set. :p

I also think some people owe the poster here (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266501) an apology for saying he was "overreacting" about the Bat/Cat figure being a mailaway. Which is, looking at it... only a double-base figure, nothing THAT big. Turns out he wasn't really overreacting at all, was he? ;)

[RavenProject]

I fail to sWhich is a meaningless poll that doesn't answer the OPs question.

Because saying you can have either:

A. An original sculpt BUT it can only be mailaway

or

B. You can have a derivative sculpt as in-store acquisition

Is a false choice.
I did not include option C, "new sculpt in-store," because it's a no-brainer.

Of course people want the best of both options. Don't need a poll for that.

-J

[RavenProject]

Let's try looking at this from another perspective.

There were an estimated 17,400 Ragnarok Surtur figures produced and shipped.

How many of those accomplished their intended purpose, accompanying the purchase of a Brick from a retail storefront?

For WizKids, every single figure which did not accompany that purchase was a waste of resources. They may have been put to good use by the retailers who received them, but they didn't meet WizKids' goals.

-J

[link_32_99]

I like larger figures but I would rather have one I can get in store. The mail away is always a ton of hassle.

[KillerSavage]

I did not include option C, "new sculpt in-store," because it's a no-brainer.

Of course people want the best of both options. Don't need a poll for that.

-J
I think it is an interesting poll. Though having it connected to this trhead is probably ruining what the actual results would be.

To me it seems like a question of what would you like more a different dial or a different sculpt? It's not a bad question at all. In relation to this thread it is though. Now I think what is happening is people are just voting to get the figure in the store rather than just voting for how they really feel.

Which I know a different sculpt would mean a different dial as well. So maybe the poll could still be worded only slightly better.

[RavenProject]

I think it is an interesting poll. Though having it connected to this trhead is probably ruining what the actual results would be.
Don't worry, the results are unscientific #### anyway.

WizKids should take any polls generated here with a lot of salt.

Bacon Salt if they can get it.

-J

[ThwartHog]

Let's try looking at this from another perspective.

There were an estimated 17,400 Ragnarok Surtur figures produced and shipped.

How many of those accomplished their intended purpose, accompanying the purchase of a Brick from a retail storefront?

For WizKids, every single figure which did not accompany that purchase was a waste of resources. They may have been put to good use by the retailers who received them, but they didn't meet WizKids' goals.

-J

The fact is that everyone who bought a brick from a retailer got a BBB surtur fig on the spot. That should be Wizkids main goal. To please and reward the customer for buying a brick. If they think the retailer is corrupt and selling a brick and not giving a BBB fig with it, then they should shrink wrap it to the brick, or refuse future shipments to that retailer if they get corroborated complaints.

The mail-in method has always been a shady practice. The hassle of cutting out and mailing in the UPC barcodes, overcharging for shipping, and some unhappy customers who wait forever to receive or never receive a BBB fig in the mail. This is not the goal of Wizkids, or at least it shouldn't be.

As for the cost of shipping excuse. Don't believe it. It costs a lot more (and I mean a lot more) to address, package, and ship out each fig individually than to add the additional weight of the BBB figs to the package of bricks already being shipped. Anyone who has sold a fig on Ebay will tell you what it costs to add an additional fig to a shipment of heroclix. It is very inexpensive. The only reason for the mail-in method is to make more money off of shipping charges, a lot like BMG or Columbia House CD clubs used to do. And if that's the case they shouldn't market it as a reward to the customer for buying a brick. It should be marketed as an exclusive offer to buy a limited edition fig, not available in stores.

[Tarnish]

I'd like to know what "within a certain timeframe " means exactly. The #'d figs are pretty much going to be gone in a week (probably less but I'm being generous). If they except mail aways for another month or two and send out unumbered figs, then I can deal with it.

But if I have to take a day off work to be free to buy on release day, go directly to the post office and pay to mail next day delivery just to have a chance at any figure #'d or not.......

Tarnish

[KillerSavage]

I'd like to know what "within a certain timeframe " means exactly. The #'d figs are pretty much going to be gone in a week (probably less but I'm being generous). If they except mail aways for another month or two and send out unumbered figs, then I can deal with it.

But if I have to take a day off work to be free to buy on release day, go directly to the post office and pay to mail next day delivery just to have a chance at any figure #'d or not.......

Tarnish
The other problem people may have is the venue not having product on release day. It's nice to read about people with the midnight release parties. The venue I usually buy clix from didn't have them until the following week.

Wizkids biggest problem with the in store promotion is the cost of making all the extra figs. So I say give them a dual function. A reward for people who buy a brick and a new guy/promotional figure. Which I know this comes with it's own set of issues.

I for one will probably be buying a brick or case if there is a figure or not so if they gave them away it would make no difference to me.

[RavenProject]

The fact is that everyone who bought a brick from a retailer got a BBB surtur fig on the spot. That should be Wizkids main goal. To please and reward the customer for buying a brick. If they think the retailer is corrupt and selling a brick and not giving a BBB fig with it, then they should shrink wrap it to the brick, or refuse future shipments to that retailer if they get corroborated complaints.
I'm not even talking about corruption here.

Every Brick that was sold through an online dealer means a Surtur was wasted.

Every Brick that was opened for loose boosters means a Surtur was wasted.

Every Brick that was shelled for singles means a Surtur was wasted.

Here's an interesting thought: Each complete set sold by a dealer on eBay represents an average of thirty-six boosters. That's four bricks worth. Four Surturs which WizKids produced which never fulfilled their purpose.

Every wasted figure cuts into WizKids' return on investment.

-J

[ThwartHog]

I'm not even talking about corruption here.

Every Brick that was sold through an online dealer means a Surtur was wasted.

Every Brick that was opened for loose boosters means a Surtur was wasted.

Every Brick that was shelled for singles means a Surtur was wasted.

Here's an interesting thought: Each complete set sold by a dealer on eBay represents an average of thirty-six boosters. That's four bricks worth. Four Surturs which WizKids produced which never fulfilled their purpose.

Every wasted figure cuts into WizKids' return on investment.

-J

Each of those instances you refer to, represent a brick that was purchased from the company Wizkids. None of them were given away to online dealers or retailers. Wizkids got their money for each and every brick. Period. If a retailer wants to buy a brick, so he can sell boosters or singles, that is his right to do so. Nothing wrong with that. He can then take the Surtur figs that he now owns, as a purchaser of a brick, and use them as prize support or sell as he wishes. It's the same as if I buy a brick, open it, and sell some singles that I don't want, or my BBB fig on Ebay.

Those Surturs you refer to as wasted, were merely redeemed by the purchaser. Nothing more than that. I haven't heard if this greater number of BBB figs being produced by Wizkids has hurt their bottom line much. Maybe it has, maybe it hasn't. They should however take into consideration how happy the customers were who got their BBB figs immediately, and keeping the customer happy (within reason) is priority number one. For if the customers aren't happy, they will stop buying your product, and then where is Wizkids if that happens.

This also supports the view of keeping the BBB figs small and as inexpensive as possible. Similar to any LE fig. that is made and given as prize support. Those are just as popular and sought after as BBB figs. Sometimes more so, and the customers don't have to mail-in for those.

[Perplexinator]

Frog of Thunder rocks so hard and it isn't a humongous figure. Brick figures don't need to be humongous either.

[Shellhead's Pal]

Frog of Thunder rocks so hard and it isn't a humongous figure. Brick figures don't need to be humongous either.
Well heck, if they are going to do a "humongous" brick figure, they might as well do somebody who deserves to be humongous for a change (you know, like the Joker, tee-hee). They could do a new Sentinel, or Onslaught, or the Forever People on their Super-Trike, or...I dunno...the Avengers Forever Rick Jones / Supreme Intelligence Super-Trike. :laugh:

Man. Come to think of it, if they're going to keep the mail-away-method, I pretty much demand the Forever People. :p

[ccs]

Not to mention, in at least 3 stores I've gone in, I've seen the BBB Surtur on sale all by itself. Probably due to stores not getting any brick buyers and still having these figures to get rid of. Now, some may say "What's the big deal?" The deal to me is, that's not the purpose of that figure, and that has nothing to do with rarity or value or anything of that nature.

Agreed, simply selling the figure isn't what the original intent was.

But really, what do you expect a store to do with those figs that're simply left over from broken bricks? One customer buys 3 boosters, another buys a few, several are sold piece meal to random people you never see again, & one or two get used for prize support due to lack of Prize Kits.....

Sure, they too could be used for prize support. But when all but one player has already purchased at least a brick (and he's been taken care of R-Surtar-wise) is it really a prize?
And this coming from a guy who doesn't really like prize driven play.

So sure, why shouldn't the store try & sell the leftovers? There's at least 3 unclaimed Surtars down at the local shop. And they'll sit there for quite awhile.
(I suppose if someone came into the shop with 10 HoT UPCs they'd be open to redeeming them. But until that happens, or we get some new clix players, if someone wants to make an offer for them....

[CarlosMucha]

Is better to have a smile and a good relationship with a Heroclix store Owner than with a mail box.

Is nice that you got our back but please don't make us lean forward.

[ThwartHog]

Is better to have a smile and a good relationship with a Heroclix store Owner than with a mail box.

Is nice that you got our back but please don't make us lean forward.

... and grab our ankles? Carlos ;)

[TimoSupremo]

Why not offer 2 BBB figures and give brick buyers the OPTION of choosing the one they want...?

Customers could pick between one smaller in store figure or the larger mail-in figure. This may even prompt people into buying more bricks and gives case buyers the extra reward of being able to redeem 2 different figures instead two of the same figure.

[MattMinus]

Why not offer 2 BBB figures and give brick buyers the OPTION of choosing the one they want...?

Customers could pick between one smaller in store figure or the larger mail-in figure. This may even prompt people into buying more bricks and gives case buyers the extra reward of being able to redeem 2 different figures instead two of the same figure.

>ackkk<... outside of the box thinking making my head explode!!!!! :confused:

Ummm, this compounds the problem. The issue with in store redemptions is that they have to produce, with a conservative estimate, at least 3 times more brick figures than they do under the mail away. With your solution, instead of choosing between printing n or 3n, they have to produce at least n+3n

[Jarimy123]

Yea and they specifically said it is more cost efficient for the mail away then the HoT way, so combining both and also having 2 sculpts rather than 1 makes zero sense business wise.

[KillerSavage]

Yea and they specifically said it is more cost efficient for the mail away then the HoT way, so combining both and also having 2 sculpts rather than 1 makes zero sense business wise.
Well if they could package the brick fig with the brick that would take care of some of the cost. I don't even want to know what they paid in shipping for 17,000 figures.

I say they should do the mail away but get rid of this limited BS.

[MattMinus]

Well if they could package the brick fig with the brick that would take care of some of the cost. I don't even want to know what they paid in shipping for 17,000 figures.

I say they should do the mail away but get rid of this limited BS.

None of this would avoid the problem of overproducing the brick figure. They want to produce something like 5k not 17k.

[Gen_Leo]

Given the numbers some people buy, how feasible would it be to have a regular sized brick piece to pick up in the store, and a larger sized case piece people mail away for? If the brick piece reused a sculpt from the set there should be a minimal impact on cost.

[thjimmy]

Mail away is the way to go. Thanks NECA/Wizkids for making a good business decision.

[comical]

Trying to look at it from a Wizkids perspective, there can only be one answer:

Key: IS=In Store and MA = Mail Away
First you have to ask a bunch of questions (or skip to the bottom for my big two conclusions):

A) What should the "brick" program do?
Obviously it should help sell product. IS/MA both do this.

B) Should it be a brick program be limited to bricks, or any quantity purchasing?
Not everyone buys 10 boosters at once. Will rewarding those that buy over time diminish the sales push to buy complete bricks? This also is not an IS/MA issue.

C) What are the advantages of IS programs?
Save staff and program costs
Immediate rewards for customers
No "while supplies last" unknowns. Customers know immediately.

D) What are disadvantages of IS programs?
Requires overproduction, which lowers demand
Increased distributor handling and shipping costs
Increased store handling and shipping costs

E) What are the advantages of a Mail-Away program
Better control over distribution
Better information about demand helps future decisions
Opportunity to get email-addresses for other possible promotions
Production that does not exceed demand increases longer term interest, keeping the promotion effective longer.

F) Disadvantages of a Mail-Away program
Increased staff and office costs
Adds post office element (lost payments/figures)
Adds "unknown" to brick purchases because of timing/supplies limits as posted on the coupons.

It seems to me that the reason to do a mail-away comes down to the two most important factors.
Number 1) The in-store method requires too much production, which cuts down on the urgency to buy a brick, which really limits the whole purpose of the promotion. I tried giving away Surtur Ragnaroks at our 2nd game night after release and no one wanted them.
Number 2) Mail-Away promotions give the company much better information about how many are needed and what people's buying habits really are. This is invaluable for future planning.

[KillerSavage]

Well as much as I like the brick figures it doesn't really matter much to me. I'm buying bricks or cases anyhow. It's the other 60 figures I'm really worried about getting. As long as their silly brick figs don't effect that I'm happy.

I have said it before and I'm saying it again that they should do a mail away. They should quit with the numbering junk and limitations though.

[ThwartHog]

It seems to me that the reason to do a mail-away comes down to the two most important factors.


Number 1) The in-store method requires too much production, which cuts down on the urgency to buy a brick, which really limits the whole purpose of the promotion. I tried giving away Surtur Ragnaroks at our 2nd game night after release and no one wanted them.

I disagree that overproduction necessarily lowers demand. The urgency is already there because the time lapse between sets creates the demand. Everyone who buys a brick should be able to get a BBB fig, which IMO is the whole purpose of the promotion (reward the customer). Aftermarket value should not figure into Wizkids plan to give away free BBB figs. I say free because the buyer is only required to pay S and H with mail-in.


Number 2) Mail-Away promotions give the company much better information about how many are needed and what people's buying habits really are. This is invaluable for future planning.

How many are needed is equal to the amount of Bricks sold to retailers. Each brick sold to a retailer represents a brick that can be sold to a consumer. No future planning is necessary if you can produce a BBB fig for every single brick sold.

Reduce the cost of BBB figs by using an existing sculpt, with new paint, and a new dial. And by shipping them with the brick. These steps alone would save a load of production and distribution dollars, and IMO give the average customer what he wants the most. A free fig with his brick at point of sale.

[Jarimy123]

How many are needed is equal to the amount of Bricks sold to retailers. Each brick sold to a retailer represents a brick that can be sold to a consumer. No future planning is necessary if you can produce a BBB fig for every single brick sold.


This isn't true because retail stores open up bricks and sell singles. So they did produce WAY over the amount of Suturs needed. At least in the past they could limit it to 5000, when those are sold, they can extend it for people who did get one.

With the in-store they would send one for each brick but then stores have massive amounts of extras because of the single boosters they sold.

It's not like stores strictly sell bricks or cases, they sell single boosters. I think it is a HUGE waste to have all these extra Suturs. Like comical said - he was trying to give them away and people didn't want them. That's a crazy waste of money.

[ThwartHog]

This isn't true because retail stores open up bricks and sell singles. So they did produce WAY over the amount of Suturs needed. At least in the past they could limit it to 5000, when those are sold, they can extend it for people who did get one.

With the in-store they would send one for each brick but then stores have massive amounts of extras because of the single boosters they sold.

It's not like stores strictly sell bricks or cases, they sell single boosters. I think it is a HUGE waste to have all these extra Suturs. Like comical said - he was trying to give them away and people didn't want them. That's a crazy waste of money.

Who cares if he can't sell them. That is not their purpose. They are a free reward to customers who buy bricks. That is their purpose. A reward to the brick buyer for being a good customer to the company Wizkids. In the case of a retailer buying a brick and splitting it up for individual sale, the BBB fig then belongs to the retailer. He can then do whatever he wants with it. Congrats on your many BBB surturs that you now own Mr. Retailer, now make cool chess board pieces out of them if you can't sell them. That is your business.

[Jarimy123]

He said he tried to give them away for free and nobody even wanted them, that's how worthless they are.

To say that it is a better idea for Wizkids to way overproduce a figure (some have said roughly 17,000 Suturs), then to produce 5,000 makes absolutely no business sense. They even offer a 2nd run after the initial 5,000 to those that missed out on the first, which they don't really have to do. So they are trying to make sure people who buy a brick get a brick figure. But if you miss out on getting one it's your fault. Have some people sent their's in and not gotten it because it was lost in the mail? Probably, it happens, but not often at all.

17,000 costs Wizkids more money to produce then 5,000. If they produce 17,000 of them and venues are stuck with these figures that are worth next to nothing it makes no sense. Wizkids is a business that is trying to make money. They aren't ####ing their customers over like you think, they aren't out to get us, they want to do the right thing. If they were to continue over producing the brick figures they would be doing more harm to the customer then good. They would lose money, and the game would eventually fold. Try and look at it from their perspective. It's a business, and when a business starts making poor business decisions it's going to cost them the business in the long run.

[razzed1]

You could always have stores do something like, you know, predictive ordering; where the store makes an order where they state X number of cases fo singles distribution, and X number of cases for brick sales, with the additional option of maybe being able to order further brick figures if they are short.

[comical]

I disagree that overproduction necessarily lowers demand. The urgency is already there because the time lapse between sets creates the demand. Everyone who buys a brick should be able to get a BBB fig, which IMO is the whole purpose of the promotion (reward the customer). Aftermarket value should not figure into Wizkids plan to give away free BBB figs. I say free because the buyer is only required to pay S and H with mail-in.

I don't disagree that, for a brick promotion, those that buy bricks should get a brick figure.

BUT, you have the very reason for the brick promotion completely backwards. The Wizkids goal isn't to give away free stuff, it's to generate sales. It's to reward the customer who buys a lot. Traditionally it's been to reward the customer who buys a lot all at one time. The brick figure is designed to get people to buy more product. Bricks are now on retailer's shelves, with brick figures that are (from the store's perspective) worthless in generating sales because just about everyone has one. If they don't have one they can get them for a couple bucks so there's no incentive to buy more boosters. There was an initial surge that is now over. Surtur Ragnaroks not only do NOT general additional brick sales at this point, but if the promotion is done the same way again the initial demand will be tiny compared to the HoT version because people now understand the affect of that many on the market. Just wait a couple weeks and I can get a brick figure really cheap, or just for showing up on game night in many stores.


How many are needed is equal to the amount of Bricks sold to retailers. Each brick sold to a retailer represents a brick that can be sold to a consumer. No future planning is necessary if you can produce a BBB fig for every single brick sold.

Reduce the cost of BBB figs by using an existing sculpt, with new paint, and a new dial. And by shipping them with the brick. These steps alone would save a load of production and distribution dollars, and IMO give the average customer what he wants the most. A free fig with his brick at point of sale.

1) Most purchases are not made on the brick level. You could produce half the number of brick figures and still have one for every person who buys a brick.
2) Shipping one with every brick adds to the cost of every brick, but it becomes an exersize in adding to bricks without effectively increasing brick sales. Think about the company perspective. If they a) produce bricks without a brick figure, how many would they sell? If they b) add brick figures to each brick how many more would they sell? If they c) allow brick purchasers to get a LIMITED production figure how many more would they sell?
Option b would not increase sales over c.
Option b would not increase revenues over a or c.
Probably not short term or long term.

Most customers, I have to add, are much more concerned about what's in their brick than getting one free figure, so it's really not what people "want the most" with their brick purchase. The free figure just means 101 figures instead of 100. Another uncommon if you use rarity as the standard.


(some have said roughly 17,000 Suturs),


To be exact: Each brick figure case of 10 figures says, "x,xxx of 1751" so there are 17,510 brick figures. At least.
Each HoT case says, "x,xxx of 8754" so there were 17,508 bricks made.

This, by the way, was at least 13% less than was made of Crisis, which was the lowest printed set under Topps and before. With the quick sellout of HoT I imagine that they'll make a little more B&B, even with it being a DC set. With HoT there are already far more brick figures than customers needing them, and far more than there are brick customers.

[hair10]

Right now the mailaway method is ahead 70-64. So as of yesterday more people want a mailaway with a new sculpt.

Time to recheck that poll. ;)

[KillerSavage]

Time to recheck that poll. ;)
I think that wasn't the proper poll really for this discussion. Plus I think jarimy123 ruined it by linking it to this thread. Not a bad poll.

I liked how yours was worded much better hair. Lots of options. I think I had picked mail away with no limit when it was still going. Once again nice job.

Nice job to ravenproject on his poll also. Good question.

[elfholme]

I would do without World's Finest (horrible idea - I passed on even trying for it), half-heartedly went for Clown Prince of Crime (interesting idea, creatively executed, but I've never bothered to use mine) and Thor's Chariot (I've had it for months and still haven't used it) if it meant that instead of mailing away (with shipping and "handling" fees) for one of those I could get a piece at the same time as I've bought my brick with no additional charge or wait. If I went through the rest of this game with few to none 2x2 based pieces - and those being Action Pack centerpiece figures - I'd be happy about it.


Agreed. I've never used one of the BibtB figures that are on oversized bases. To me, they're worthless, except as display pieces. That makes it sting a little less that I never got a World's Finest fig (even though I bought my brick and mailed away my coupons on release day), but only a little, because I feel I didn't get something I paid for (and jumped through the appropriate hoops for besides!).

I've used EVERY brick fig on a regular-sized base though, and mostly loved them (except perhaps Phantom Stranger, who is wildly overpriced). I have no idea where WK is getting the idea that "Big Base is what the customers want in brick figures". I think what most customers want is a useful figure that is different than what is available in the set. What some disagree with is how much "different" a figure has to be to count. For folks like me, a different dial and paint job (like we got with Ragnarok Surter) counts. In fact, some of us actually dislike the brick figures on oversized bases that WK has given us (and based on Batman/Catwoman, that will continue into the next set).

Now if the oversized bases were for figures like new Sentinels, Apocalypse, Red Ronin, or other characters that are actually supposed to be large, with good dials (can you imagine the value of a brick Sentinel that was actually good???), I'd love it. But that's not what the company keeps giving us, unfortunately. to me, the recent brick promotions indicate that WK isn't really listening to the customer base. I feel fortunate that at least they are open to the idea of a second production run of brick figs if demand is high...the WF fiasco should not be repeated.

If the company went to normal-sized figures with the same sculpt as a figure in the set, they could even pick figures that had similar costumes that were worn by different people (Hourman, Antman, Batman and Captain America now, Iron Man/Iron Patriot, etc.) that actually represent different CHARACTERS. That would be very cool, but wouldn't require a different sculpt than one that was in the set. I'd love that. I'd also love in-store brick figures with a new sculpt. I'd also be fine with mailaways that were for oversized figures that are actually WORTH USING, as long as everyone who buys the brick and completes the redemption process within a reasonable time gets one. But a mailaway for a figure that's just going to be a display piece for most of us? That is definitely the worst way to go (though admittedly it's a better choice than no brick figure at all).

Durn it:

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Miraclo again."

[hair10]

*snip*

Rep to you sir, for a very fine post! :classic:

[Munchoboy]

Don't worry, the results are unscientific #### anyway.

WizKids should take any polls generated here with a lot of salt.

Bacon Salt if they can get it.

Agreed.

Mail away is the way to go. Thanks NECA/Wizkids for making a good business decision.

I gots no problem with it.

It seems to me that the reason to do a mail-away comes down to the two most important factors.

Number 1) The in-store method requires too much production, which cuts down on the urgency to buy a brick, which really limits the whole purpose of the promotion. I tried giving away Surtur Ragnaroks at our 2nd game night after release and no one wanted them.

Number 2) Mail-Away promotions give the company much better information about how many are needed and what people's buying habits really are. This is invaluable for future planning.

Man makes some valid points here.


All in all, I have no issue with either method of distribution and the so-called "hassle" of going through the Post is irrelevant to me. Frankly, I am a little surprised to see how "all or nothing" some folk are with this. Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater. :noid::rolleyes:

[Steelmage2000]

If the company went to normal-sized figures with the same sculpt as a figure in the set, they could even pick figures that had similar costumes that were worn by different people (Hourman, Antman, Batman and Captain America now, Iron Man/Iron Patriot, etc.) that actually represent different CHARACTERS. That would be very cool, but wouldn't require a different sculpt than one that was in the set. I'd love that. I'd also love in-store brick figures with a new sculpt. I'd also be fine with mailaways that were for oversized figures that are actually WORTH USING, as long as everyone who buys the brick and completes the redemption process within a reasonable time gets one. But a mailaway for a figure that's just going to be a display piece for most of us? That is definitely the worst way to go (though admittedly it's a better choice than no brick figure at all).


Agree with most of the points in your post, rep to you.

[Jarimy123]

All in all, I have no issue with either method of distribution and the so-called "hassle" of going through the Post is irrelevant to me. Frankly, I am a little surprised to see how "all or nothing" some folk are with this. Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater. :noid::rolleyes:

Should you really be surprised given the main people posting that have the all or nothing thinking? Probably really shouldn't be a surprise at all ya know.

[ShadowMark]

I would like the mail away over the in-store for a couple reasons:

1) It offers a secondary value-whether on ebay or for a trade for an older piece I didn't get.

2) The figure itself looks better because it's intent was to be a "special LE"

I think a few people are forgetting a few VERY important things:
Had Heroclix not faded for a year- Thor's Chariot would be the MAIL AWAY figure, and there wouldn't be a R. Surtur in store brick option.

There have only been 2 (not including Thor's Chariot) Large-scale brick figures, but The response to has been incredible. I think The World's Finest was the first Brick figure to sell out, more than double any other figure previously.

I believe the one thing no one has touched on is playability. World's finest and Thor's Chariot have a low playability and aren't that good in most situations, whereas the numerous other figures have some playability. Size has nothing to do with it.

Overall, like GOD PACKS, IN-STORE BIBTB figures were a result of the return of heroclix and selling Thor's Chariot months before release.

[Munchoboy]

Should you really be surprised given the main people posting that have the all or nothing thinking? Probably really shouldn't be a surprise at all ya know.

What can I say? I'm an optimist at heart. :classic:

[KillerSavage]

How have those outside the U.S. and canada faired at getting a brick figure? If people who live in the U.S. And Canada couldn't get theirs mailed in fast enough how do they get one? I'm talking about the actual promotion not the secondary market.

[rollinsolo]

I vote in store also. Most of my favorite bibtb figures are regular size. Doom, Mandarin, etc.

[ThwartHog]

We’ve got your back(s)
By justin | Published: January 14, 2010

Buy it By the Brick

To understand why we moved away from the in-store program it is important to understand our one of our goals for the program – We want to reward consumers who purchase a brick with a unique, compelling figure. As such, it is likely that the Brick figures may be larger, heavier and cost significantly more to produce than a “regular” figure.

In the case of Hammer of Thor, we were fortunate that we could create a reasonably sized alternative to the original Chariot Brick figure so that we could produce them in sufficient quantity to have a successful in-store program and keep shipping cost to a minimum.

The mail away model we are using for TB&TB is similar to previous BBB redemptions except that if demand should exceed supply, we will ensure that customers who redeem their figures within a certain timeframe will receive an unnumbered Brick fig. We’ll let everyone let everyone know what the reprint timeframe is should it become an issue.


To reiterate my position I will quote the company representative. The first bolded line from the quote clearly states that one of the goals of the BBB program is to reward customers who buy a brick of Heroclix. I also understand that Wizkids is in the business of making money, for that is the primary goal of any business. The BBB program is a reward, as well as an incentive, to buy larger quantity of product at one time. The BBB fig is not the product itself, it is a reward for buying the product. The product being the figures inside the bricks. This reward is marketed as a free to the customer. Free because via the mail-in method, you are only required to pay for S and H fees, and via the in-store method, you are not required to pay for it at all. The second paragraph states that in the case of HOT, they were able to produce a sufficient quantity to have a successful in-store program. So the argument that the cost of producing 17,000 Surtur BBB figs, as opposed to 5,000, would not make the program successful is invalid. More expensive... Obviously, but unsuccessful... no. From this we can assume that using an existing sculpt ( even a giant sized sculpt) with new paint and a new dial, can and in fact has been proven to be a successful BBB program. Would this program be successful with a new sculpt or Larger base? Only the number crunchers at Wizkids could answer that question with any certainty.

Now what does the customer want? There are two polls that show a majority of those polled would prefer the in-store method. You can view and vote on these two polls here:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268088

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266482

Arguments on how priceless or worthless these figs are once in the hands of the customer are relative to each individual's perspective. But consider this. A standard sized BBB fig with a terrific dial (like SI Gamora for example). If this fig was distributed via the in-store method, making it's rarity fairly common, and worth on the secondary market, somewhat small. Would this very usable figure not be a desirable addition to a Heroclix collection?

Making a profit is the first priority to running and staying in business. A happy customer is more likely to buy more of your product over a longer span of time. Heroclix has been around for many years and many players have stuck with this game since it's inception. I personally have been playing since Infinity Challenge. The company has to give the customer what they want to keep them happy. If the majority of customers want point-of-sale BBB figs with their bricks, than the company should oblige them if possible. Likewise, if the majority customers want mail-in BBB figs with their bricks, than the company should oblige them.

In the end, I guess all I'm trying to say is that this is an instance where I think the fans and buyers of Heroclix should have the companies ear.

[comical]

I agree with a some of the assertions about making customers happy being the long-term key to success, but I disagree about a number of points, so I can't resist breaking this down.

To reiterate my position I will quote the company representative. The first bolded line from the quote clearly states that one of the goals of the BBB program is to reward customers who buy a brick of Heroclix.

This was in a press release. They said, "one of the goals." They could have also said "one of our goals is to get people to buy more bricks" but that wouldn't go over so well even though it actually true. In fact, if they didn't believe it helps sell more bricks it wouldn't be a promotion at all. Promotions are designed to get you into the store, with the "reward" being the mechanism.

I also understand that Wizkids is in the business of making money, for that is the primary goal of any business. The BBB program is a reward, as well as an incentive, to buy larger quantity of product at one time. The BBB fig is not the product itself, it is a reward for buying the product. The product being the figures inside the bricks. This reward is marketed as a free to the customer. Free because via the mail-in method, you are only required to pay for S and H fees, and via the in-store method, you are not required to pay for it at all. The second paragraph states that in the case of HOT, they were able to produce a sufficient quantity to have a successful in-store program. So the argument that the cost of producing 17,000 Surtur BBB figs, as opposed to 5,000, would not make the program successful is invalid. More expensive... Obviously, but unsuccessful... no.

The cost of production is higher when you make more. That's a given. If they seal them into the bricks then they could eliminate the extra handling costs that were incurred by distributors and retailers. Put as a question, do you think Diamond was happy trying to keep track of every brick figure to match every brick? It's quite possible that's a factor that they can't overcome so quickly. It also costs more in staff and management to handle a mail-away redemption. I'm guess, but pretty confident that cost is more than the manufacturing costs. Some say the holy grail in sales is getting the customers email. Do that and the battles nearly won, don't and you've already lost. This is a huge benefit to the mail-away program. It allows them to notify people about every new release.

From this we can assume that using an existing sculpt ( even a giant sized sculpt) with new paint and a new dial, can and in fact has been proven to be a successful BBB program. Would this program be successful with a new sculpt or Larger base? Only the number crunchers at Wizkids could answer that question with any certainty.

For me the question of what the brick figure should be is entirely different. I don't even want to go there. Either way the program would be more successful if it's a better figure. I'd leave it at that.

Now what does the customer want? There are two polls that show a majority of those polled would prefer the in-store method. You can view and vote on these two polls here:

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268088

http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266482

In my view these polls come down to whether you want something handed to you for free, or not. It's an obvious choice when put in those terms, and many people still say they'd rather jump through a hoop. That's over just being handed something free.

The only reason people like the mail-away option is that they see value in it. Logical inference, there is less value in the figure when it is given out free to just about everyone. It may not be the only factor, but it's the biggest one. It also means that when they're given out in abundance, the main purpose of the promotion is lost.

IF they could figure out how to give out brick figures to brick buyers, and not have a ton left over that just get handed out or sold for a buck or three, then we could discuss the in-store brick promotion. As it is, if they make 17,000 Batman/Catwoman brick figures and send the to stores they simply won't promote brick purchases very well.


Arguments on how priceless or worthless these figs are once in the hands of the customer are relative to each individual's perspective. But consider this. A standard sized BBB fig with a terrific dial (like SI Gamora for example). If this fig was distributed via the in-store method, making it's rarity fairly common, and worth on the secondary market, somewhat small. Would this very usable figure not be a desirable addition to a Heroclix collection?

I really think the small vs. large is an entirely different conversation. I'm just looking at mail-away vs. give-away, and the effect of the resulting production levels.

Priceless or worthless may be relative, but there are plenty of marketing departments and accountants that can quantify it afterward, and often predict it in advance. In the case of brick figures, let's look at the lowest buy-it-now items on ebay today. Keep in mind that for some of these many showed up at distributors after Wizkids shut it's doors: World's Finest $59.95. Doom $19.99. Clown Prince $19.99. Phantom Stranger $4.95. Venom $19.95. Surtur Ragnarok $2.99. Check ending bids on Surtur Rags and he's $1.04 to $4.25, with one auction ending unsold despite a $0.99 starting bid. And that's for a set who's rares and super-rares prices are actually increasing.

What that tells me is that Wizkids called Surtur Ragnarok a brick promotion, but treated it like a re-introduction of the brand customer reward. Exactly what you want. Should they do that every time? Sure. We'd all love it. But it ends up not being a brick figure promotion. This is because most customers don't buy a whole brick.


Making a profit is the first priority to running and staying in business. A happy customer is more likely to buy more of your product over a longer span of time. Heroclix has been around for many years and many players have stuck with this game since it's inception. I personally have been playing since Infinity Challenge. The company has to give the customer what they want to keep them happy. If the majority of customers want point-of-sale BBB figs with their bricks, than the company should oblige them if possible. Likewise, if the majority customers want mail-in BBB figs with their bricks, than the company should oblige them.

This basically says that most people will buy stuff if they get free stuff. There's certainly truth to that. However, Wizkids does NOT "have to give the customer what they want" every time, which is clearly illustrated by the fact that every poll that has ever run here has had opposing viewpoints. They can't give every customer what they want. The company has to put out a good product. That's all.


In the end, I guess all I'm trying to say is that this is an instance where I think the fans and buyers of Heroclix should have the companies ear.

I'm sure we do have their ear. We see company reps posting responses to rules, to questions, and to clarify statements. They then have to use that information to make a good product. If they made every decision based on the requirement that people get free stuff they will fail. They do not owe us anything. They do have to produce a quality product to keep us interested, though.

[Glen Quagmire]

I have no idea where WK is getting the idea that "Big Base is what the customers want in brick figures".

Well, they would have certain info that we don't have. Namely, the production and orders from brick figures from Armor Wars through Monsters/Mutations. AFAIK, we've never had the numbers of Kryptos or Mandarins out there. Clearly, something must have prompted all the changes that came with Crisis/World's Finest. And we know for sure SS: Illuminati was ordered at a much slower rate than World's Finest.

[comical]

Well, they would have certain info that we don't have. Namely, the production and orders from brick figures from Armor Wars through Monsters/Mutations. AFAIK, we've never had the numbers of Kryptos or Mandarins out there. Clearly, something must have prompted all the changes that came with Crisis/World's Finest. And we know for sure SS: Illuminati was ordered at a much slower rate than World's Finest.

They did say, although I don't believe them, that there were twice the World's Finests as there were previous brick figures.

The new regime also said HoT sold at above SI numbers, when the facts seem to show that they made over 5,000 fewer cases of HoT, so I know they're not perfect. :)

It's also true that after Wizkids shut down a LOT, hundreds at least, of CPoC unnumbered versions showed up at D/A and were offered as a buying incentive. They were "numbered to 5,000", but actual production was, I'd guess, between 5,500 and 7,000.

[sinistersex]

I'd prefer smaller point costed, more readily use-able figures like Dark Beast. THAT was a great BiBtB figure.

What about a highly desirable generic figure?

[KillerSavage]

I think wizkids will do the best it can to keep it's customers happy. If they need to save costs by doing a mail away instead of in store then that's what they should do. That is what the best of their ability can give us I'll take it. If they decide they don't want to do the brick promotion at all I'm fine with that too. I just want my clix. 1-60 of each set is all I need to be happy. Less than that actually because I don't even complete most the cursr sets anyhow.

[ThwartHog]

I agree with a some of the assertions about making customers happy being the long-term key to success, but I disagree about a number of points, so I can't resist breaking this down.
...

You spend a lot of time breaking down statistics and that is great. You sound like you have experience in that area. I won't argue with your stats, but Wizkids did refer to the HOT BBB in-store program as a success. That is a fact (unless Justin was lying about that). Break it down all you want. You can speculate about all the variables involved in calculating what Wizkids believes is a successful program, but in the end, the program worked successfully with the Surtur BBB fig for HOT.

Also, there is a difference between giving something away for free, which you seem to think I am suggesting, and a reward that comes with the purchase of a brick of Heroclix. Free Comic Book Day Heroclix giveaway is free. A BBB fig is a reward for a substantial purchase. There is a difference IMHO. Not an apples and oranges difference, but a significant difference nonetheless.

[ThwartHog]

I'd prefer smaller point costed, more readily use-able figures like Dark Beast. THAT was a great BiBtB figure.

What about a highly desirable generic figure?

That could be cool. What did you have in mind?

[KillerSavage]

You spend a lot of time breaking down statistics and that is great. You sound like you have experience in that area. I won't argue with your stats, but Wizkids did refer to the HOT BBB in-store program as a success. That is a fact (unless Justin was lying about that). Break it down all you want. You can speculate about all the variables involved in calculating what Wizkids believes is a successful program, but in the end, the program worked successfully with the Surtur BBB fig for HOT.

Also, there is a difference between giving something away for free, which you seem to think I am suggesting, and a reward that comes with the purchase of a brick of Heroclix. Free Comic Book Day Heroclix giveaway is free. A BBB fig is a reward for a substantial purchase. There is a difference IMHO. Not an apples and oranges difference, but a significant difference nonetheless.
Yep! While all the rest of us talk out our arse like normal people comical comes around being all factual and stuff. :) One day he shall learn it is so much easier to just blow hot air and not worry about pesky numbers and stuff. ;)

[comical]

You spend a lot of time breaking down statistics and that is great. You sound like you have experience in that area. I won't argue with your stats, but Wizkids did refer to the HOT BBB in-store program as a success. That is a fact (unless Justin was lying about that). Break it down all you want. You can speculate about all the variables involved in calculating what Wizkids believes is a successful program, but in the end, the program worked successfully with the Surtur BBB fig for HOT.

Also, there is a difference between giving something away for free, which you seem to think I am suggesting, and a reward that comes with the purchase of a brick of Heroclix. Free Comic Book Day Heroclix giveaway is free. A BBB fig is a reward for a substantial purchase. There is a difference IMHO. Not an apples and oranges difference, but a significant difference nonetheless.

I agree it was a success. It served a great purpose. I don't agree that it would be a good brick redemption format for any future sets.

They do give them away free already. You said so yourself. They just put a stipulation in. My point is that when 17,000 Surturs were made, there were almost instantly plenty available for non-brick buyers. I gave some away as prizes on our first game night. I couldn't give them away the 2nd game night because no one wanted one - even just to have for trades. So it succeeded as a giveaway, which was great after the one year hiatus, but failed big time as a brick promotion.

[lost clicker]

I have to agree with the BIBTB in-store promotion. I like the idea a lot better than having to the cut out and mail way of things on 2 issues. #1. I gotta travel quite a bit for work and if I'm gone when the new set comes out and I get home like 2 weeks later, I'm S.O.L.(or waiting a real long time for an un-numbered version), #2. I consistantly run into problems with Diamond/Alliance on shippments to my store. Sometimes I get the brick(s) on the day they are due out and sometimes later. Once again, I'm S.O.L.(or waiting a real long time for an un-numbered version).

I say if they want to produce a "limited numbered" figure, why don't they do what they did with the coupons for Starro or Galactus.

[valtrades]

I agree totally

[doctor_x]

I think that making the BIBTB fig available at time of purchase is the way to go.

Maybe do what they did for Thor's Chariot if they want to go with bigger base figs?

My venue took any extra Rag Surturs leftover and put them into our prize pool.

Problem solved.

I have only seen Dark Beast, Krypto, and SS:I actually played on occasion.

[sinistersex]

That could be cool. What did you have in mind?

what if there was a surplus again, like comical said with Surtur. IF they planned for this, then some people would actually WANT multiples.

What do people want multiples of? I know I'd like a better Doombot, one that is more than expendable mastermind fodder and enhancement. I'd take the Mindless Ones in a Dr. Strange-centered mystical set. Some people might like Spidey-clones--Scarlet Spiders. What about a cheap, generic, bare-bones kind-of Iron Man armor?

Any other ideas?

[darius_dax1]

I'm not even talking about corruption here.

Every Brick that was sold through an online dealer means a Surtur was wasted.

Every Brick that was opened for loose boosters means a Surtur was wasted.

Every Brick that was shelled for singles means a Surtur was wasted.

Here's an interesting thought: Each complete set sold by a dealer on eBay represents an average of thirty-six boosters. That's four bricks worth. Four Surturs which WizKids produced which never fulfilled their purpose.

Every wasted figure cuts into WizKids' return on investment.

-J

I have to agree with this as only 1 brick that was sold at my venue as a whole. All other bricks were busted open for loose booster sales. The Surturs will make excellent prizes though.

[sinistersex]

wow. This is nuts. I can see arguments from both sides.

but, I would rather see WIZNECA do whatever they have to, to stay in business. we just got them back.

I would pay postage to get a mailaway Brick fig if they wanted it that way.

[KillerSavage]

wow. This is nuts. I can see arguments from both sides.

but, I would rather see WIZNECA do whatever they have to, to stay in business. we just got them back.

I would pay postage to get a mailaway Brick fig if they wanted it that way.
Yeah there are valid points on both sides. My biggest problem with the mail away is the limiting. Other than that I don't care how they do it.

[comical]

what if there was a surplus again, like comical said with Surtur. IF they planned for this, then some people would actually WANT multiples.

What do people want multiples of? I know I'd like a better Doombot, one that is more than expendable mastermind fodder and enhancement. I'd take the Mindless Ones in a Dr. Strange-centered mystical set. Some people might like Spidey-clones--Scarlet Spiders. What about a cheap, generic, bare-bones kind-of Iron Man armor?

Any other ideas?

Generics are a GREAT idea.
If they want the brick promotion in-store they could also produce 4 different ones, sight unseen and packed inside the shrink wrap. That way there would only be 5,000 of each and would promote brick purchases.

For sets after B&B, when there's time for planning changes in things like packaging, the sky's the limit.

Yeah there are valid points on both sides. My biggest problem with the mail away is the limiting. Other than that I don't care how they do it.

I agree with the "limiting" problem. As Thwarthog said, If there's a brick promotion then every brick purchase should get a brick figure. It's a real turnoff to customers to promote brick level purchasing then not deliver the bonus. Limiting turns it into something other than a brick promotion.

[nbperp]

If they want the brick promotion in-store they could also produce 4 different ones, sight unseen and packed inside the shrink wrap. That way there would only be 5,000 of each and would promote brick purchases.

Taking whatever hat I wear that implies I speak for WK off and only speaking for myself, I would like this.

But I can see it now - "Why is WK forcing me to buy 2 cases to get my full set - this isn't fair! And it's generics too, they knew I would want a bunch of these."

As many good points as there are on this thread, it's clear that there is no way that WK can do anything that won't be seen by some as a good thing and by others as the worst idea ever.

[comical]

Taking whatever hat I wear that implies I speak for WK off and only speaking for myself, I would like this.

But I can see it now - "Why is WK forcing me to buy 2 cases to get my full set - this isn't fair! And it's generics too, they knew I would want a bunch of these."

As many good points as there are on this thread, it's clear that there is no way that WK can do anything that won't be seen by some as a good thing and by others as the worst idea ever.

You definitely can't please everyone.
The more I think about the 4 figures idea, though, the more I like it. It keeps print runs at a good level. It also takes about 2 cases to complete a regular set with SRs anyway.

The combination option would be 2 figures, one in each brick of each case, but make them (not-too-powerful) generics. That way people who buy 1 case get both, people who buy 2 cases get 4 useful figures (that's always the real key anyway), and single brick buyers get a reason to do so.

[Miraclo]

Making the brick figure an item sealed in with the brick and a good generic has some appeal. It would make them approximately Uncommon and help drive brick sales. Anyone who didn't want the piece would find that it retains good trading/sale value. This, along with a good assortment of other generics in the Common slot (one of the good things about HoT) would help drive me back towards my 2-cases plus loose boosters for sealed games buying level.

Making more than one type in a set, though, takes it over the line. I would definitely complain about a generic being kicked up to roughly SR (or worse) rarity. For generics? Pieces I'd want to have at least 3 of? The more I consider it the more burnt I'd feel as a buyer.

Reconfiguring the packing arrangement to accommodate two clix that aren't inside boosters in a case is likely to be a problem, though. Having it dropped in as an extra piece in one of the boosters in a brick seems the easiest way around it - in most boosters there's still some space - though it would raise the risk of packing mistakes and claims that some bricks were missing the piece.

[Jarimy123]

Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't having 4 different figures/sculpts go straight back to the point of it costing them even more money - which is what this all boils down to.

[Miraclo]

Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't having 4 different figures/sculpts go straight back to the point of it costing them even more money - which is what this all boils down to.

Another good point against it, yes.

[comical]

Maybe I'm missing something, but doesn't having 4 different figures/sculpts go straight back to the point of it costing them even more money - which is what this all boils down to.

The context that I'm going by is that it is a brick promotion. The point isn't to keep costs down, it's to promote the purchase of bricks. If they want to keep costs down they should just not do a brick promo figure. :)


Making the brick figure an item sealed in with the brick and a good generic has some appeal. It would make them approximately Uncommon and help drive brick sales. Anyone who didn't want the piece would find that it retains good trading/sale value. This, along with a good assortment of other generics in the Common slot (one of the good things about HoT) would help drive me back towards my 2-cases plus loose boosters for sealed games buying level.

Making more than one type in a set, though, takes it over the line. I would definitely complain about a generic being kicked up to roughly SR (or worse) rarity. For generics? Pieces I'd want to have at least 3 of? The more I consider it the more burnt I'd feel as a buyer.

Reconfiguring the packing arrangement to accommodate two clix that aren't inside boosters in a case is likely to be a problem, though. Having it dropped in as an extra piece in one of the boosters in a brick seems the easiest way around it - in most boosters there's still some space - though it would raise the risk of packing mistakes and claims that some bricks were missing the piece.

I agree that you shouldn't have generics at the SR rarity level!!!!!!

At a print run of 5,000 they are comparable in rarity to SRs, so they should not be generics if they do it that way. They should figures of the iconic level of Frog of Thunder - not necessary but fun.

Putting them inside the boosters also removes the brick promo purpose. They become just another uncommon that it hit or miss like all other uncommons.

[ThwartHog]

I love this multple fig, maybe generic idea. It kind of solves both Comical, and my arguments. Like Norm said, there would still be some people who wouldn't like it because it would make it harder to collect every fig, but you wouldn't have to buy 4 bricks to get 4 different figs. That's where trading and the secondary sales market come in handy. Great idea. I'd love to hear it discussed further.

[Miraclo]

I agree that you shouldn't have generics at the SR rarity level!!!!!! Ah! Okay. There was some unintended carry-over. I'd thought this was being pushed as an extension of the generic-as-brick-figure idea. I'm pleased to see we're on the same page with this -- I was worrying for a moment! :)

At a print run of 5,000 they are comparable in rarity to SRs, so they should not be generics if they do it that way. They should figures of the iconic level of Frog of Thunder - not necessary but fun. I'd especially like it if it ended up nudging chase pieces out of the way completely...

Putting them inside the boosters also removes the brick promo purpose. They become just another uncommon that it hit or miss like all other uncommons. Eh. It's a matter of perspective, but I understand your point. Each brick buyer gets one, so it satisfies the Buy-a-brick push, but, yes, it would mean that when a brick is broken up someone buying a loose booster will get it as a bonus. Really, though, if it's packaged with the brick anyway it just comes down to whether the buyer of a loose booster gets it or the store does.

Quick side-note: It would only be at that level of (roughly) Uncommon if it were a single clix, essentially packaged two per case. Once we go to four different ones we're off to SR and rarer levels per individual piece.

[torontcollectr]

Got our back or got our cash?
Definately do not like the mailaway concept. (It ALWAYS costs non -USA to receive them, it costs more to send in all those UPC codes too)

If the concept is Buy a Brick = Get the figure, then you should get the figure. PERIOD!

If there are 2500 cases (2 brick per) then you make 5000 figures.

Numbered or not is irrelevant - however not half numbered half not-numbered -

I find it a little hard to believe that a print run of 5000 figures can not be absorbed into the original 60 or 55 figures that are created.

Personally I would rather see a "lottery" type prize as a marketing idea. Each brick would give an on-line code that would give the winner a chance at a complete factory & LE set or similar type prize.

The disappointment and backlash from the Worlds Finest deal should not be forgotten.

We should all be thrilled that someone (NECA) stepped up to create heroclix ( and obviously because they intend to make money, but hopefully they will not perpetuate some of the mistakes of its predessors (especially Topps).

[Glen Quagmire]

I agree with the "limiting" problem. As Thwarthog said, If there's a brick promotion then every brick purchase should get a brick figure. It's a real turnoff to customers to promote brick level purchasing then not deliver the bonus. Limiting turns it into something other than a brick promotion.

But by definition, there's a limited run regardless of whether they announce it or not, correct? Even the Ragnarok Surturs had a limit, as far as 17,500 can be considered a limit.

[ShadowMark]

Taking secondary market out of it and thinking about the purpose of the promotion:
I have heard multiple people on here say that their store had extras of the "Rags Surtur" and they just turned them over as prizes. That is a great idea and I am sure that many places do this, but isn't the point of getting the figure, is by buying a brick?
I know a few people who just handed them out to store regulars even though they didn't buy the brick.
Now, what I think that WK/NECA is trying to do is:
A) make sure that the promotion is done right the way it should
be-you buy the brick, you get the figure-it is a "BRICK FIGURE" afterall

B) cut down on their production costs to keep the price of the boosters from going up. By having 8,000 cases (figurative number, don't
take too literal) that means 16,000 BIBTB figs. Do they really need to make that much?

The reprint idea is a great idea and I think most are overlooking. They are not stopping orders at 5,000, they are reprinting as demand allows. And, let's say they have to reprint 500, or 1,000 more as orders come in, that is still 10,000 less than they would have done

[darius_dax1]

Got our back or got our cash?

You know it is possible for them to do both. NECA/WK can both take our cash and have our backs in providing a good product with a fair chance for everyone to participate.

[comical]

It's pretty clear we should be helping to run the company. :) I do think we're on a similar page, at least.

Eh. It's a matter of perspective, but I understand your point. Each brick buyer gets one, so it satisfies the Buy-a-brick push, but, yes, it would mean that when a brick is broken up someone buying a loose booster will get it as a bonus. Really, though, if it's packaged with the brick anyway it just comes down to whether the buyer of a loose booster gets it or the store does.

If it's outside the brick, then stores can provide them as rewards for buying brick equivalents too. They also then don't take up an internal slot, which in a way makes it NOT an extra.


Quick side-note: It would only be at that level of (roughly) Uncommon if it were a single clix, essentially packaged two per case. Once we go to four different ones we're off to SR and rarer levels per individual piece.

With four different ones they would be one set per 40 boosters. That's almost exactly SR level, which is 1 per 36.
With two different ones they would be 1 per 20 boosters, just below rare status of 1 per 16 boosters. That's still pretty rare, now that you mention it. I revise my suggestion to making it a generic only if it's one per brick so that there may be demand for 17,000 of them (or more). :)

[Petros76]

It doesn't matter which way Wizkids decides to go as long as I can get a BiBtB figure.
I've missed out on too many of these due to production line limits ( World's Finest) or "no more Super Skrull Illuminati even though we said we would produce more" or even not getting a reply for the Clown Prince of Crime because the company was bought out by Topps.

[Petros76]

I had made this suggestion a while ago (3/27/09):
2. Change the price of the mail-away figure to $10. Have 2 different mail-away figures per set. This will increase the amount of bricks sold as more collectors/players will want both figures. An example would be the Arkham Joker mail away and a Harley & Poison Ivy Duo for Arkham. For SI it could have been The Illuminati Skrull and Spider-Woman.
Original message:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4141257#post4141257

[ThwartHog]

It's pretty clear we should be helping to run the company. :) I do think we're on a similar page, at least.

With two different ones they would be 1 per 20 boosters, just below rare status of 1 per 16 boosters. That's still pretty rare, now that you mention it. I revise my suggestion to making it a generic only if it's one per brick so that there may be demand for 17,000 of them (or more). :)

I would definitely go for the 1 generic per brick. That would probably be a once every so often type of offer though, as players would probably get sick of the generic BBB figs if they were offered too frequently.

I also like the idea of two different figs as opposed to four (not that four is a bad idea) , as that would still present the rarity needed to create demand, and offer in-store delivery of the BBB fig. Say, if there was a Red Hulk in the next Marvel set, they could make a Green Hulk and a Gray Hulk version of him as the BBB figs, each with unique dials. Assuming, that is, that the two extra dials and paint jobs don't make it too expensive. Doesn't sound too far fetched to me though.

[Lasac]

Agree with OP.

~Phil

[Superclone]

It may be argued that the model of doing oversized, special figures that did not generate enough revenue from brick purchases to cover their production led to the first round of clix being shut down for a year.

[zero_cochrane]

Multiple dirrent brick figures sounds horrible. I really couldn't get behind that. For all the people who buy at the case level or more (like myself), there's plenty who only buy one brick.

I'd be okay with a generic brick figure - it's actually a neat idea - provided that this is a generic that people don't need huge numbers to play. A generic :g-giant: Sentinel would make a reasonable generic brick figure - priced at about 150 points, most people would only need one to three of them. That's attainable.

A generic League of Assassins Ninja, on the other hand, would be like NECA inviting us to hire actual ninjas to attack their headquarters. People would want five or more of those suckers.


It may be argued that the model of doing oversized, special figures that did not generate enough revenue from brick purchases to cover their production led to the first round of clix being shut down for a year.That's just speculation, though - i.e., something you made up just then, with no prior evidence to support it. :p

It could just as easily be argued that the secret royalty fees that WizKids is contracted to pay to the Jack Kirby estate were multipled for the Super Skrull: Illuminati brick figure, leading to an unexpected blow-out in the costs of that figure. :cheeky:

[hair10]

but isn't the point of getting the figure, is by buying a brick?
I know a few people who just handed them out to store regulars even though they didn't buy the brick.

I don't really see why it matters. Look at it this way...

- If a store buys 5 cases it gets 10 brick figs.
- WK has already received their money for the 5 case purchase, they probably don't care how those 10 bricks are sold.
- Therefore, the brick fig is a 'store incentive' rather than a WK incentive at this point.
- The store should be allowed to determine what is the best way to market the product based on their individual customer base.

[Jarimy123]

A store incentive that most stores can't give away to it's players? I'm still unsure how that is helping anyone, and like has already been stated, overproducing the figures costs more money, more money means there is less money for other things. I'd rather see them produce less brick figures and use the money for something else. What that something else is? I have no clue, but stores having a mass amount of worthless figures doesn't make sense at all.

[darius_dax1]

I don't really see why it matters. Look at it this way...

- If a store buys 5 cases it gets 10 brick figs.
- WK has already received their money for the 5 case purchase, they probably don't care how those 10 bricks are sold.
- Therefore, the brick fig is a 'store incentive' rather than a WK incentive at this point.
- The store should be allowed to determine what is the best way to market the product based on their individual customer base.

Some stores cannot be trusted to implement such a program.

[MattMinus]

I don't really see why it matters. Look at it this way...

- If a store buys 5 cases it gets 10 brick figs.
- WK has already received their money for the 5 case purchase, they probably don't care how those 10 bricks are sold.
- Therefore, the brick fig is a 'store incentive' rather than a WK incentive at this point.
- The store should be allowed to determine what is the best way to market the product based on their individual customer base.

Well I think WK would care for two reasons and the stores for one.

For WK, the cost of printing and packaging an additional 12k brick figures might not balance out to the value of the promotion.

For both, the value of the incentive is diluted by the brick figures ubiquity. For WK, this probably exacerbates the problem I mention above.

Personally, I had a harder time getting the in-store brick figure (because they were not shipped to my store with the cases) than I had previously. Ideally, I realize that it should be easier, but is it really so onerous to mail in some UPC's?

For the people that think you have to go to a midnight release and get the redemption sent at 5;00 AM, you don't, trust me. I sent my world's finest coupon from Jersey about a week after the set was released and I still got one. it seems that they just dump them all in a bin and start pulling out on a certain date, instead of filling the orders as they come in.

[hair10]

For all those that keep saying WK should do whatever to keep in business I offer this...

If WK wants to make big oversized pieces then that's fine. But they should sell them directly or through Amazon like they did with the Chariot. That way they can recoup their costs on them. They should not be used as a brick incentive. Rags Surtur was great... reused sculpt (no added cost) but a different enough dial that he's unique. Plus, he's playable! I find it hard to believe that he cost for producing 17,000 of these (where the bulk of the cost was already absorbed by the basic set since it had a Surtur fig) is greater than producing even 6000 to 7000 of a BRAND NEW OVERSIZED fig. And even if you opt to do a new sculpt, a standard sized one can't cost nearly what these large (and neary worthless when it comes to playability) ones do.

As for Jarimy's concern about 'leftovers' and them being worthless, I can somewhat see his point. This is where the "generic" idea really has some merit. How many bricks would have been purchased if Multiplex or Warskrull were the brick figs? How many bricks would WK sell if B&B had a generic Green Lantern Corps member in it while the brick figure was a same-sculpt-but-alternate-paint-and-dial Black Lantern Corps member in it?

Think about it. ;)

[hair10]

Some stores cannot be trusted to implement such a program.

It's not a program. It's a "here's your 10 figs because you bought 5 cases, use them to promote your own sales as you best see fit."

As we've seen with Surtur, selling them outright wouldn't net much. Stores would figure it out pretty quick.

[Jarimy123]

I like the generic idea, I don't think it makes sense to have 2 or 4 different ones or whatever someone mentioned. The generic idea would definitely be cool. Warskrull would have made a much better brick figure than a super rare.

I'm all for everyone's ideas, but they really need to make sense. I'd love to have everything I ask for, but we have to remember that Wizkids is a business. I'm not implying they will just up and go out of business, but people have to stop and think about the decisions that Wizkids makes. If they start making poor business decisions, it won't just immediately put them out of business, but over time things will just fall apart.

I think right now they are heading in the right direction.

[MattMinus]

As we've seen with Surtur, selling them outright wouldn't net much.

But it might if they were highly sought after generics.

[rorschachknew]

Of all the valid opinions and ideas here, I like the generic in store the best.
If the Le street thug/henchman whatever from AA were lying around in piles Id be thrilled

[comical]

Of all the valid opinions and ideas here, I like the generic in store the best.
If the Le street thug/henchman whatever from AA were lying around in piles Id be thrilled

Which invalid opinions and ideas do you like best? :)

I actually thought there would be more resistance to the generics idea, but upon further review it seems it would generally be highly regarded IF done in conjunction with making the redemption an in-store program. Usually, any talk of generics at the Rare level or higher results in a Wizkids lambasting.

Another way it makes sense is that it is the gamer, and not the figure collector / comic geek / newbie who is enticed into buying an entire brick just to get a bonus figure. The folks who are considering whether or not to buy a full brick anyway are hungry for usable figures. Throw in a new sculpt or repaint and you've got gravy on those fries. In that way, they don't need to be oversized or classic characters.

[torontcollectr]

[Personally, I had a harder time getting the in-store brick figure (because they were not shipped to my store with the cases) than I had previously. Ideally, I realize that it should be easier, but is it really so onerous to mail in some UPC's?
For the people that think you have to go to a midnight release and get the redemption sent at 5;00 AM, you don't, trust me. I sent my world's finest coupon from Jersey about a week after the set was released and I still got one. it seems that they just dump them all in a bin and start pulling out on a certain date, instead of filling the orders as they come in.[/QUOTE]

It is onerous if shipping from a foreign country like Canada (and no doubt similar problems for other international). Postage rates keep escalating. Spending all the time , cutting UPC, a receipt, and postage-- and then to get shafted when you get " sorry none left" response.

Add the time difference for postage from foreign countries to USA, and that becomes a secondary problem. Unless a percentage is set aside for foreign based on foreign sales... but even then.


As for hair10 idea about Amazon selling or another site. We will accept another site. Nothing has turned us off Amazon more than the NO INTERNATIONAL orders that occured with Thor's Chariot. We will never order from Amazon, and giving them an exclusive like that really BITES!
Any clix that are offered as such is a slap in the face to all non-USA heroclix players and collectors.

[hair10]

As for hair10 idea about Amazon selling or another site. We will accept another site. Nothing has turned us off Amazon more than the NO INTERNATIONAL orders that occured with Thor's Chariot. We will never order from Amazon, and giving them an exclusive like that really BITES!
Any clix that are offered as such is a slap in the face to all non-USA heroclix players and collectors.
While I'd like to see NECA handle something like this themselves I realize that there are some logistical issues to doing it. So I understand the reasoning behind utilizing a site like Amazon.

[azureai]

Has NECA announced how it will address the Buy it By the Brick figure with regards to people who buy their bricks online?

[comical]

Has NECA announced how it will address the Buy it By the Brick figure with regards to people who buy their bricks online?

No.
We don't know limit per customer or address yet.
International customers haven't heard anything official either, although there are rumors that there is a different coupon for them and they will be redeemed via their distributors.

[Ironman1994]

I can't find the reference, but I believe it was once revealed that creating a sculpt and mold was the highest expense for a set. (If someone can prove or disprove, please do so.) Therefore, it still may not be economically viable for them to produce and distribute.

-J

I kinda don't care if it's a new sculpt. For example, if they change up the paint job and make a unique figure, I don't care. Heck, haven't they given us the Dial-only treatment before? Not that I necessarily want that for a brick figure, but this only proves that Wizkids can make up cost efficient ways to solve a problem. For example, let us say that there is an Iron Man figure in WoS. I don't care if they change him up a bit and make the brick figure an Iron Patriot if it means it's better for us, the company, and the venue.

[bludd72]

lol one second this is a game the next it's like clix players are traders on the stock market. if you make a really cool product that thousands of people enjoy, wouldn't it be smart business to just make it accessible to everyone and guarantee steady sales? i used to be a collector when i first got into clix....i've easily spent thousands of hard earned dollars to feed my addiction...however, i am personally tired of the cheesey collector factor to this game. I've had the pleasure of recently being able to use the new Lantern Bats and Supes prime, but would i go to all the trouble and dollars to try to acquire these rare gems? nope. i dont need bags full of extra pieces taking up space just so i can get these uber rares, i just wanna play the dang game.

[Surfer13]

If they send the brick figures to stores then they aren't really brick figures, are they? If a store orders 10 bricks they get ten figures, and if they sell five bricks as bricks and the rest for sealed tournies or loose booster sales, then what do those other five "brick figures" become, because they sure aren't brick figures as they are intended to be used.
Obviously this is easier, but there are also concerns with venues that are the sole source for Heroclix (or even those that aren't). What stops them from selling the brick figures rather than giving them away? What stops them from giving them to their favorite people and not having them for people that buy a brick?
You can say "go elsewhere", but it isn't always an option, or at least not a good one, and if they say that Wizkids didn't send them any or enough, then that reflects poorly on Wizkids even though it isn't true.

But I also understand that collecting and mailing the coupons and UPC codes, along with a shipping and handling fee, and waiting and wondering doesn't exactly feel like a reward, either, but Wizkids doesn't overproduce them and makes at least some of their money back with the S&H fee.

I suppose in the end that that is what I would have to go with. If you want the figure then pay for it. I wouldn't even care if they used a recycled sculpt with a different name, dial, and paint job, turning it into a glorified prize.
Heck, if they eliminated the brick concept and just put the figure on their website and let people order directly it would be okay with me. At the end of the day, if we are covering the production costs for the figure, then it doesn't matter if people order a hundred of them.

That being said, though, it wouldn't work so well with a "limited numbered edition". I honestly have no idea if people want the brick figures because they are limited, or if they want them because they want them.
This goes back to the original reason that we were told they went to a numbered edition in the first place. They produced brick figures and people didn't care. Orders were down. They were sitting on unordered product that was costing them money.

I think that making brick figures that people want is a bigger part of selling out than limited editions, but you never know. How could they further make the "brick figures" sell?
Should they make them slightly broken so that people will want them? Would that be "ethical"?
What if they were variants of one of the chase figures? Would an actual Superman from Crisis have succeeded as a brick figure? Would people order a Nekron that had a different dial and paint job? Would it hurt the chase figure concept/secondary market?

There is a lot to figure out here. It is not as simple as "send them to stores or have people mail them in". :cool:

[Hesster56]

If they send the brick figures to stores then they aren't really brick figures, are they?

Um, yes, they are. The delivery method of the figure has nothing whatsoever to do with the figure itself. It's like saying a LE figure isn't an LE because you bought it off ebay and didn't win it in a tournament. They do stop being mail-away figures, but they retain their brick quality.

And as to your point about stores selling 5 of the 10 bricks they bought, and then having those other five figures sitting around-they are the store's figures to do with what they want, provided they have sold out of bricks.

But yeah, there does need to be a more elegant fix than cramming all those UPCs into an envelope.

What about this-What about a one-time use code on the coupon that comes with the bricks? Or some type of scratch off code like the kind you use when you buy MS points or WoW subscription cards? Have the game store activate that code for you when you buy the brick and then order your figure from a website.

[Munchoboy]

Personally, I've never minded mailing in for Brick figures, but I come from a generation where promotional mailaways were the norm for special items or exclusives too. *shrugs*

[necrodog]

Um, yes, they are. The delivery method of the figure has nothing whatsoever to do with the figure itself. It's like saying a LE figure isn't an LE because you bought it off ebay and didn't win it in a tournament. They do stop being mail-away figures, but they retain their brick quality.


I think there's a problem with your analogy. An LE isn't an LE because of where or how you got it. It's an LE by definition, just like an SR or Unique: the designation is keyed to the figure, not the source.

On the other hand, a figure is a "convention exclusive" because the initial distribution is exclusively through conventions. If they are then also offered for retail sale through on-line or B&M stores they aren't convention exclusives anymore. In the same way, it's a brick figure because you get it by buying a brick at retail. If the initial distribution is otherwise, it's not a brick figure anymore. It's some more general or broadly defined promotion.

On the original topic, I liked the in-store "redemption" but I have to agree with Comical: if the intent is to encourage retail purchases of bricks then that's not the way to go. If they want to simply send some "special" figures to the retailers to use as they see fit, then it's fine.

[hair10]

But I also understand that collecting and mailing the coupons and UPC codes, along with a shipping and handling fee, and waiting and wondering doesn't exactly feel like a reward, either, but Wizkids doesn't overproduce them and makes at least some of their money back with the S&H fee.
Any money "made back" by the S&H fee is probably less than what WK pays someone to package and mail the figs out... a cost they don't have by giving it to the distributors to give to the stores.

[tom730]

Personally, I've never minded mailing in for Brick figures, but I come from a generation where promotional mailaways were the norm for special items or exclusives too. *shrugs*


Heck yeah!!!
Remember "Green Samps?"
How about "Raleigh Coupons??"
Or cereal box bottoms or even cutting out the "Big G" from a General Mills box???
(Wife throws blanket over his shoulders and leads him down the hall, patting his back saying "shhhh...it's ok. Don't get too excited...you'll get your little super guys, don't worry...")

[Munchoboy]

Heck yeah!!!
Remember "Green Samps?"

Were they a Folk music band from the '60s?

Oh, you mean green "stamps". Yeah, I remember those.

How about "Raleigh Coupons??"

I dunno, I think I was too young to smoke (yuk) when these were around.

Or cereal box bottoms or even cutting out the "Big G" from a General Mills box???

NOW we're talking. :classic:

Remember Kenner UPCs and the maliaway Star Wars Accessory Packs? Or Hasbro "Flag Points" and the Hooded Cobra Commander or Duke mailaways?

(Wife throws blanket over his shoulders and leads him down the hall, patting his back saying "shhhh...it's ok. Don't get too excited...you'll get your little super guys, don't worry...")

I hear ya bud. ;)

[AUKOS]

Personally, I've never minded mailing in for Brick figures, but I come from a generation where promotional mailaways were the norm for special items or exclusives too. *shrugs*

Normally, I would agree - but I was a three time looser - with the last three mail aways. Supes and bats, joker and skrull all came back to me unopened and stamped "offer over" or something to that effect. I still have the envelopes.

And -all of those were sent the day after the bricks went on sale. :ermm:


AUKOS

[KillerSavage]

I never had any trouble mailing away and getting the figure. I still think it was poorly executed. Even though I live near Pittsburgh and the coupons were going to Cinncinati I still rushed to get it in the mail. I would take an envelope stamped and filled out already with me when I would go buy my case. It would be in the first mailbox I would see on release day.

So yes I got the figures. Though I think I would have much rather enjoyed them right away. Rather than reenact Cannonball Run to try and get to a mailbox or post office.

Now if they did away with the limited figures and had a mailaway that could be slightly different.

[Munchoboy]

I never had any trouble mailing away and getting the figure. I still think it was poorly executed. Even though I live near Pittsburgh and the coupons were going to Cinncinati I still rushed to get it in the mail. I would take an envelope stamped and filled out already with me when I would go buy my case. It would be in the first mailbox I would see on release day.

So yes I got the figures. Though I think I would have much rather enjoyed them right away. Rather than reenact Cannonball Run to try and get to a mailbox or post office.

Now if they did away with the limited figures and had a mailaway that could be slightly different.


*picturing KillerSavage in a "Captain Chaos" (http://rummage.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/captain-chaos.jpg) costume*

LOL

/Rep! :laugh:

[tom730]

Were they a Folk music band from the '60s?

Oh, you mean green "stamps". Yeah, I remember those.



I dunno, I think I was too young to smoke (yuk) when these were around.



NOW we're talking. :classic:

Remember Kenner UPCs and the maliaway Star Wars Accessory Packs? Or Hasbro "Flag Points" and the Hooded Cobra Commander or Duke mailaways?



I hear ya bud. ;)


What are these "Star Wars Accesory Packs" of which you speak? Are they 100% Heroclix compatible?
re: Raleigh coupons,
I was too young to smoke back then and fortunately never started! But I remember Raleigh and even Chesterfield at one point had coupons on the back of each pack! "Smoke our brand and save up for Sports Equipment!"
yuck!