Do you wait?

[vlouden]

This frustrates me to no end.


Scenario: I played a 195pt BGold/VHawk team vs. 200pt E-Bats/V-Nightwing team. There was of course other figs for support, but he had no taxis. Tourney rules.

Problem/Question: I have rule to never extend my team too far away from friendly support role figures. He moved his peices a total of about 4 squares up and stopped. I got my combo within striking distance and hidden from support(indoors). All now I have to do is wait for him to move closer. He never did. Pass. Pass. Ok-I guess I will have to strike. STUPID MISTAKE. Got outwitted, spanked, and lost the game.


Hindsight: Broke my rule and suffered...Anyone else have this delima and decide to ignore your rule come game time?

I think it is too wimpy/cheezy to pass and wait. But what do I know? I would like to hear from the "masters". Rex in that article said that he and his opponant passed back and forth all game until the very last turn. Help. I'm torn.

[the itsy bit]

that's exactely what I dislike aboot the Batman team ability (and the 2,3 outwitters).
It mostly puts the Batman player in a turtle position, whereas when you go out and try to beat him you will most of the time loose (because they also do an extreme 3 damage each)!

[four_winds]

At our venue the house rules go that any character who passes twice in a row takes a click of damage.Even if it forces the guy to move back and forth just one square,at least hes taking an action token.Suggest it to your judge and see how he likes it.

[napa]

combat with your own cheese such as firelord/taxi. if he wants to turtle then he has no right to complain about ole cheesehead.

[Keleko]

I don't see why you should be upset over what he did. After all, you were waiting for him to move on you, too. Both of you had a defensible position that neither one of you wanted to break out of. If that is your strategy, that's fine. But, you need some way of breaking out if you face someone who does the same thing.

By waiting my opponent is giving me the initiative. This is why I tend to build and play aggressive teams. I go for the team that can make the first assault and do severe enough damage in a single strike that I'll have a good chance of surviving the return strike. I'm talking about 13 clicks in a single turn, 10 of those from close combat, so stealth is no issue. Very few figures can withstand that kind of assault and still be effective.

[Azrael0626]

Originally posted by vlouden
This frustrates me to no end.


Scenario: I played a 195pt BGold/VHawk team vs. 200pt E-Bats/V-Nightwing team. There was of course other figs for support, but he had no taxis. Tourney rules.

Problem/Question: I have rule to never extend my team too far away from friendly support role figures. He moved his peices a total of about 4 squares up and stopped. I got my combo within striking distance and hidden from support(indoors). All now I have to do is wait for him to move closer. He never did. Pass. Pass. Ok-I guess I will have to strike. STUPID MISTAKE. Got outwitted, spanked, and lost the game.


Hindsight: Broke my rule and suffered...Anyone else have this delima and decide to ignore your rule come game time?

I think it is too wimpy/cheezy to pass and wait. But what do I know? I would like to hear from the "masters". Rex in that article said that he and his opponant passed back and forth all game until the very last turn. Help. I'm torn.

I agree with you 100%. I think that the best games I have ever played are the ones where my opponent and I just duke it out. I don't even have to win to be happy with the game. I can't stand people who turtle. Where I judge the players know that if I see them stalling the entire round they forefit fellowship. I like the idea of them taking a click if they pass twice in a row. I'm trying to keep away from making house rules, but if it gets to the point where it is no fun for the other players, then I guess we will have to use them. The only suggestion I can make is to always go in with the max points allowed as your team and just turtle yourself.

[vlouden]

Yeah, I just wanted to get it off my chest. I am a little more relaxed about it now. In the future I would probably do more of a hit & run technique until it pulls him out of his shell.

Azrael-I just realized that it is the player with the LEAST amount of points that wins in the result of a tie. (if that is what you were suggesting.)

This is just "friendly" tourneys at local shops. But come convention time, expect anything and everything....

[four_winds]

i think that what he means is that if nobody gets a kill then your team that survives,the total points become yours.So if you field an exact 300 team and your opponent fields a 297 pointer you would win by 3 points.

[Thor665]

Greetings,

I've just got to ask, how did you attack? I've faced similar teams and stratagies (in fact I'm sure we all have) but though they are somewhat annoying they are hardly the be all and end all of stratagies. I faced a team like that in league play last week. I spent extra rounds hulking up my Hulk and then flew him in with Wasp to powersmash Nightwing. My other figures darted in a bit to distract/annoy Batman. My placement also left it so Batman couldn't support Nightwing without one of them moving. I won.

If your opponent was defending then you should easily have had time to boost Hawk to his best click. With Booster's flight speed you should have easily been able to dart in and set Hawk down in close combat with Nightwing (I tend to target him due to his higher attack which I want to remove, and his lack of a CCE area that could smear you...oh yeah, it also takes away one of their outwits) Hawk could of easily pounded Nightwing, and some of your other forces could of moved in as well (move up support to be closer while he's sitting there behind smoke screens waiting for you to make first move.) Against a turtle team your opponent gives you all the time in the world to prepare your assault. Take him up on his offer and make him pay for it.

Turtling is just another stratagy with all the inherant streangths and weaknesses any stratagy provides. I prefer mobile high damage teams...my teams are in trouble if I want to build a defensive area (though usually with mobility and damage you don't need to) My teams also suffer if taxis are toasted to death or nailed with incapacitate. Turtle teams sacrifice their ability for first strike or tend to be built into large mobs vulnerable to energy explosion/pulse wave/ and out manuvering.

Some thoughts to help you stomp the turtle,
Thor.

[vlouden]

You are right, Thor. Sometimes I don't things though and play my best game. Other times I am in the "zone". It was just frustrating. I'm sure we've all been there. I just hate it when I let the other person dictate the "control" of the game. Postitive note- I am getting geared up for convention season :)

four-winds: We might need a judges ruling, but in the case you just named the person with 297 would win. Unless it is a new faq-it says in the back of the DC rules
[pg23 If there is a tie in the victory point totals of two or more players, the winner is the player who built his force with the lowest build total.]

I hope there is a judge to help, because I've lost on both ends of this ruling and it depends on who is the judge that day.

[Mad]

Originally posted by vlouden
I just hate it when I let the other person dictate the "control" of the game.


four-winds: We might need a judges ruling, but in the case you just named the person with 297 would win. Unless it is a new faq-it says in the back of the DC rules
[pg23 If there is a tie in the victory point totals of two or more players, the winner is the player who built his force with the lowest build total.]



I am not a judge but Four Winds is correct. You quote the rules book but you have to step back for a moment:

The force with the lowest built total wins the game in case of a tie but in your case there would not have been a tie b/c victory points obey the following formula:

VP = your survivors + figures you KO'd. In this case, nobody would have been KO'd but your opponent had more survivor points (200 vs. 197) so he would have more VP's and win the game. So, no tie here and the portion you quote wouldn't apply.

Here is when it applies: your army has 188 pts vs. 200 of your opponent. You kill his Rk Thug and he doesn't kill anybody. You score 188 (survivors) + 6 (KO Rk Thug) = 194 VPs and he scores 194 (survivors: 200 - KO Thug) + 0 kills. So both of you have 194 points but you built a force with less points and you win the game.

This is why, if you want to play a defensive army, you should build your team with the exact maximum of points allowed, otherwise, your opponent controls the tempo/board/game.

[vlouden]

Mad-I wish you were here to explain this to the guys I play. Now I finally understand. I just hope I don't someday need a lawyer to understand the rules.

[Phantom]

Originally posted by four_winds
At our venue the house rules go that any character who passes twice in a row takes a click of damage.Even if it forces the guy to move back and forth just one square,at least hes taking an action token.Suggest it to your judge and see how he likes it.

What if you have a team where there aren’t enough characters for actions? It kinda seems like a bad rule for Medics (who, lets face it, you would want to be clear of action tokens unless you really need them to have one) or PC/Outwit characters (whose job consists of getting into position to see their target and remaining there). And sometimes you’ll have more characters than you’ll have actions. I had 8 or 9 characters in a 300-point game, so it was a given that my Veteran Thug wasn’t going to move unless everyone important had either already done so or was clearing tokens.

[Pandaro]

Well, this is kind of an odd thread on the Marvel board, but I would counter with: Rookie B.Gold carrying Rookie Grundy, backed up by Rookie Harley Quinn. Those three make up 103 points. While your opponent waits in the bushes, fly B.Gold right up to that 8 inch range mark carrying grundy at his side. Next round, Booster flys Grundy flys in and drops him in front of Bats, and flys his remaining two spaces to block Nightwing's Line of sight. Lets say you miss on Batman. Next round, bats is almost guaranteed to smack you for three damage. Grundy has 10 clicks of life, and batman has 8. Next round, Harley Traipses into a 10 inch range, and perps Grundy's damage back up to three, and he swings again. Being that batman's defense is only 15, and Grundy's starting attack is 10, one of those two attacks is likely to hit, knocking the B-Man down. With the advantage of more clicks, Grundy can grind Batman out, and then be carried over to face Nightwing, where Grundy, B.Gold, and Harley's range attack all come to bear on the not-so-caped crusader. On top of this, you have another 100 points to spend on tons more support.

It's a situation that could go either way depending on the die-rolls, but I used the Grundy/B.Gold/Harley combo with some outwit via Nightwing last week to take out Darkseid without much trouble. The guy was turtleing in the back until I brought grundy up. Thinking he had me where he wanted me, he brought Darkseid up to face Grundy, but most people underestimate the Rookie Solomon Grundy, and he lost his most powerful peice pretty quickly.

[scowlingone]

Originally posted by Pandaro
Next round, Booster flys Grundy flys in and drops him in front of Bats, and flys his remaining two spaces to block Nightwing's Line of sight.

Can't be done. The model's movement ends immediately after dropping off a carried figure, just as a flying model may only pick up a model at the beginning of its move.

[Neato-Magneto]

Just use Hypersonic Speedsters.
Or the superman team ability


Or better yet, OWAW supes, if you can get him

[Thunderbolts]

*Next round, bats is almost guaranteed to smack you for three damage. *

Or being Batman he could just move away effortlessly (Outwitting something important at the same time) to another hiding place, and dare you to push and follow him, whilst one of his similarly hidden pals shoots you with something or other.