Hindering terrain question-simple

[Nochance]

Do "hindering" terrain and "treat as if it were hindering terrain" have the same meaning? Does deep shadows allow me to use HoT Hand ninja's SP? So where can and can't I use the Hand ninja's SP considering special circumstances?

[Quebbster]

Do "hindering" terrain and "treat as if it were hindering terrain" have the same meaning? Does deep shadows allow me to use HoT Hand ninja's SP?
You should read the entire sentence:
Treat all non-blocking terrain as hindering terrain for line of fire purposes.
FROM THE SHADOWS: Once during your turn, if Hand Ninja occupies hindering terrain and has no action tokens, he can make a close combat attack as a free action.
There is no Line of Fire involved in the activation of the Hand Ninja's SP, so Deep Shadows does not help.
So where can and can't I use the Hand ninja's SP considering special circumstances?
You can use it when you occupy hindering terrain. If you do not occupy hindering terrain, you cannot use it.

[Nochance]

Hmmmm.....okay thanks, I wasn't sure if their were any circumstances posted in any previous threads talking about exceptions to the rule. I am guessing Ambush is my best bet on a ninja swarm.

[Quebbster]

Well, Deep Shadows does let you move into position safely with Stealth, and you can always use Smoke Cloud to create some hindering terrain if you need to make a free attack...

[Nochance]

Well, Deep Shadows does let you move into position safely with Stealth, and you can always use Smoke Cloud to create some hindering terrain if you need to make a free attack...

Oh cool I did not know you could use Smoke cloud like that. Never used the power so learning this little tid-bit makes me want to take it for a spin.

[Quebbster]

Oh cool I did not know you could use Smoke cloud like that. Never used the power so learning this little tid-bit makes me want to take it for a spin.

Smoke Cloud is an underestimated power. :) One of my favorite tricks is using it to trap a non-flying figure. :)
SI Elektra has Smoke Cloud to start and fits with the Hand theme. For a more abstract fit, try AA Robin - Martial Artist keyword, Smoke Cloud with extra options, and Perplex to make the Ninjas' free attack even more dangerous.

[zero_cochrane]

Smoke Cloud is an underestimated power. :) One of my favorite tricks is using it to trap a non-flying figure. :)
SI Elektra has Smoke Cloud to start and fits with the Hand theme.

SI Elektra - 80
....Double-Time - 5
....Flashbang - 3
....Lunge - 5
....Passenger - 5
Total - 98

That's a lot more feats than I like on a single character, but it makes Elektra a super-effective taxi for Hand Ninjas.

She can carry a Hand Ninja 14 squares and then immediately throw down a Smoke Cloud for him to occupy, allowing for a free Out of the Shadows attack.

[Harpua]

Smoke Cloud is an underestimated power. :) One of my favorite tricks is using it to trap a non-flying figure. :)
For the OP's info...

I think the best way to trap a guy is to surround him, rather than to actually put the Smoke in his square.

. . . .
. 1 S .
. S S .
. . . .

In the diagram above, the guy (there's smoke under 1) gets to move at has his speed. It's effective, but not as much as this:

. . . . .
. . S . .
. S 1 S .
. . S . .
. . . . .
Here the guy can only move 1 square, no matter which direction he takes.

[Quebbster]

For the OP's info...

I think the best way to trap a guy is to surround him, rather than to actually put the Smoke in his square.

. . . .
. 1 S .
. S S .
. . . .

In the diagram above, the guy (there's smoke under 1) gets to move at has his speed. It's effective, but not as much as this:

. . . . .
. . S . .
. S 1 S .
. . S . .
. . . . .
Here the guy can only move 1 square, no matter which direction he takes.

Pretty much what I was referring to.

[Harpua]

Pretty much what I was referring to.

I figured that, but the OP said he was new, so I spelled it out.

(Edit: New to the SC power, that is.)

[UniqueLoginNamor]

And If AA Batman doesn't have an action token he can use Smoke Cloud any number of times as a free action making a 13x13 square of hindering terrain.

Unless the errata'ed him

[Harpua]

And If AA Batman doesn't have an action token he can use Smoke Cloud any number of times as a free action making a 13x13 square of hindering terrain.

Unless the errata'ed him

They did, and he can't now.

[Shuttle]

For the OP's info...

I think the best way to trap a guy is to surround him, rather than to actually put the Smoke in his square.

. . . .
. 1 S .
. S S .
. . . .

In the diagram above, the guy (there's smoke under 1) gets to move at has his speed. It's effective, but not as much as this:

. . . . .
. . S . .
. S 1 S .
. . S . .
. . . . .
Here the guy can only move 1 square, no matter which direction he takes.

Ooh. Nice. I've been playing for about three years now and that one's new to me. Kind of like the Barrier imprisonment though. Another one to remember...

[VanisherPunisher]

Smoke Cloud is an underestimated power. :) One of my favorite tricks is using it to trap a non-flying figure. :)

Add a little Outwit and you can do it to flyers too. I once held Magus stationary for 5 turns with a couple of Robins and the Riddler.

[zero_cochrane]

And this is why Smoke Cloud shoudnt be a free power, as some people occasionally suggest.

[Rurouni KJS]

And this is why Smoke Cloud shoudnt be a free power, as some people occasionally suggest.

Yep. Most such power change suggestions don't take any sort of game balance issues into consideration.

[Joeshane86]

Lol, Nightshade and trapster with construct make a nice trap combo. Burning smoke then barrier around the group or solo figure and you have an easy bake oven.

[Cyclops2342]

Silly side note to the hindering terrain but if you have two characters on hindering terrain and one is hit with energy explosion would you take the hindering terrain bonus for both figures on hindering terrain to their defense value?

[normalview]

Silly side note to the hindering terrain but if you have two characters on hindering terrain and one is hit with energy explosion would you take the hindering terrain bonus for both figures on hindering terrain to their defense value?

Yes.

EE (including splashed attacks) is a ranged combat attack. ES/D would work, too.

[Joeshane86]

Silly side note to the hindering terrain but if you have two characters on hindering terrain and one is hit with energy explosion would you take the hindering terrain bonus for both figures on hindering terrain to their defense value?

I believe so.

[Harpua]

Silly side note to the hindering terrain but if you have two characters on hindering terrain and one is hit with energy explosion would you take the hindering terrain bonus for both figures on hindering terrain to their defense value?

A splashed character would not get the hindering terrain modifier.

[Cyclops2342]

So... both would get the +1 to their defense for energy explosion in hindering.

[normalview]

A splashed character would not get the hindering terrain modifier.

Right.

I mispoke earlier... LOF is needed for hindering terrain modifer and splash damage does not require LOF.

But ES/D would activate since it is still a ranged attack.

[Harpua]

So... both would get the +1 to their defense for energy explosion in hindering.

No...only the target gets it.

Page 11: "Ranged combat attacks and the hindering terrain modifier. If a line of fire between two characters on the same elevation crosses the boundary line of hindering terrain, modify the target’s defense value by +1 for the attack after applying any replacement values; this is the hindering terrain modifier. Add this modifier only once, regardless of the number of squares of hindering terrain the line of fire passes through."

The splashed guy is not a target.

[BigSoph]

Yep. Most such power change suggestions don't take any sort of game balance issues into consideration.

Everything should be a free action! Free the actions, man!

[spike1138]

On a hindering terrain-related note:

Knockout Gas Characters occupying indoor terrain modify their speed values by -2. Characters using Smoke Cloud can place up to eight hindering terrain markers.

I just want to clarify, does the wording for the part about smoke cloud apply to both indoor AND outdoor clear terrain?

[Harpua]

On a hindering terrain-related note:



I just want to clarify, does the wording for the part about smoke cloud apply to both indoor AND outdoor clear terrain?

It doesn't specify anything, so it can work on everything.

[spike1138]

It doesn't specify anything, so it can work on everything.

Thanks. That's what I figured but I just KNOW someone at my venue would try to argue that it only applies to indoors. :tired: