View Full Version : Nightcrawler not a mutant?
MacGyver2506
02/08/2010, 01:49
I was looking at Nightcrawler and I am slightly confused...my understanding is that Kurt Wagner is Mystique's son, and he is also a mutant, yet he does not have the mutant keyword.
Any thoughts?
traitorarmor
02/08/2010, 01:57
I was looking at Nightcrawler and I am slightly confused...my understanding is that Kurt Wagner is Mystique's son, and he is also a mutant, yet he does not have the mutant keyword.
Any thoughts?
When they were giving sets* that didn't have Character Cards their keywods there was a consious decision to curb the 'Mutant' keyword. There was even a announcement to this effect. That's why there are only a few execptions to the mutant keyword showing up on figures in sets older than Armor Wars.
That's why........it's annoying.....but that is the reason.
*IIRC, it might actually when they finnished the unrestriced list at the time(as AW was in the restricted enviroment at the time).
XFORCE1982
02/08/2010, 02:04
Technically he's half mutant and half demon
MacGyver2506
02/08/2010, 02:18
Technically he's half mutant and half demon
Half demon? Who's his father?
simonexus
02/08/2010, 02:31
He is a mutant, there's a whole bunch of Mutant figures that weren't given the Mutant keyword, including all 5 Bishop figures, Omega Red, AoA Cyclops, Domino, all 4 Havoks etc, the rationale being that there were already too many Mutants, so "no more mutants".
Regarding Kurt being "half-demon", according to the story from a couple of years ago in Uncanny, Nightcrawler is the son of some sort of a demon-mutant called Azazel, one of the many mutant demons, who live in another dimension and are also constantly at war with some sort of mutant angels. It's never been followed on or retconned since then, so I guess it still stands. But according to that story the 1980s Germany was also still in the Middle Ages. It's Chuck Austen stuff. At least there weren't any mutant werewolves in there.
shanbo83
02/08/2010, 02:36
Half demon? Who's his father?
regular continuity says sabretooth. other runs say belasco.
Kurt Wagner was born with certain unusual physical characteristics, but his power of self-teleportation did not emerge until puberty[citation needed]. Margali Szardos, a sorceress and gypsy queen, allegedly found Wagner an hour after his birth, in a small roadside shelter in the Bavarian Alps[citation needed]. She claimed to have found his alleged father, Eric Wagner, dead of a heart attack on the road outside, and Kurt's mother lying next to the baby dying[citation needed]. However, this claim was later called into question, and it was subsequently proven [8] that Kurt's mother is the terrorist Mystique, also known as Raven Darkholme, and his father is the demonic warlord Azazel.[9]
From Wiki.
zero_cochrane
02/08/2010, 04:39
regular continuity says sabretooth. other runs say belasco.And some people still think that Destiny was Nightcrawler's mother, and Mystique was his father. :p
regular continuity says sabretooth. other runs say belasco.
What?! Sources, please. I don't think there's anything that ever even hinted that Sabretoth was Nightcrawler's father. (I don't remember Belasco, either, but that can I can see.)
insafarline
02/08/2010, 06:29
I think in the early to mid 90's they did a series of stories in the x-books where you found out Mystique was Nighcrawlers mother. They also had Sabretooth in the same time line and it was mentioned that he and Mystique had a child together. It lead people to believe for a short time that Sabretooth was Nighcrawlers father. It was later revieled that Sabretooth and Mystiques child was the mutant hater Graydon Creed. I cant remember the details but I think that was the story. Too many X-men plot threads cut off circulation to the brain.
:confused:
Of course the whole demon thing flatly contradicts the first meeting between Dr Strange and Nightcrawler from an X-Men annual (can't remember the number, the story was called something like Nightcrawler's Inferno). Dr Strange looks at Nightcrawler and the thought bubble says something like "I thought at first that Nightcrawler was some kind of demon, but the Eye of Agamotto says he is pure human". So I take that as the definitive answer on the subject and disregard any rubbish about demons as being the work of someone with a severe lack of imagination...
TopHatCat
02/08/2010, 09:23
I was looking at Nightcrawler and I am slightly confused...my understanding is that Kurt Wagner is Mystique's son, and he is also a mutant, yet he does not have the mutant keyword.
Any thoughts?
Sounds just like M&M #200 Iron Man. He doesn't have the Armor keyword... lolwut? Every other one has it, so why not this one? Non the less I still always use him in my Armor teams.. but if I were to go to a full on tournament (non-legal anyway) and be unable to use him since he lacks the keyword.. Just abit annoying :P
Neverfate
02/08/2010, 09:28
Well if anyone counds Chuck Austen run on X-men back in around 2003 or 4, he reveals that a demon by the name of Azezal is his father.
Nightcrawler was also going to be utilized in a plan to destroy the the Catholic church once he was made pope and revealed to the world as a Mutant. . .
I don't think ANYONE has since acknowledged that storyline since Austen was kicked off.
Repulsor rage
02/08/2010, 11:13
I always thought his father was a hapless villager
adam1der
02/08/2010, 12:03
It's been stated that some demon is Nightcrawler's father because of some story written by Austen. Sabretooth and Mystique had a son together named Gaydon Creed who had no mutant abilities. Mystique eventually killed him. He was a part of the Upstarts along with Trevor Fitzroy, Sienna Blaze and several others.
Azrael0626
02/08/2010, 12:07
There are many figures that don't have keywords that they should and some that have keywords that they shouldn't. I generally don't like any kind of house rules, but for the keyword issue I do change things. There has to be some kind of proof and all players have to agree on the addition of a keyword to a specific figure.
UniqueLoginNamor
02/08/2010, 12:15
Half demon? Who's his father?
Just about anyone they feel like making it at the time
Xer0Gravity
02/08/2010, 12:21
To be fair, Mutant was overused as a keyword.
May as well have had keywords for Male & Female.
As it is I think there are some other keywords that are a little overdone too...
BudPalmer
02/08/2010, 12:30
Worst twist ever with Nightcrawler. It's put Austen on my poop list forever (not that he'd need much help to get there but messing with my favorite character...).
Badgerbite
02/08/2010, 13:00
To be fair, Mutant was overused as a keyword.
May as well have had keywords for Male & Female.
As it is I think there are some other keywords that are a little overdone too...
The 345 Martial artists. 295 Scientists, 247 Mystical's, 240 Warriors, 216 Soldiers, 216 teens, 192 Brutes, 182 Future, 157 Armored do not think that Mutant was over used, it comes it about average.
To be fair, while Austen did suck major monkey berries, I think they made a distinct difference between Mutant demons and Actual demons( Dr Strange, Inferno, etc.). Mutant demons are just mutants that people thought were demons because of the way they looked and thus they decided to be as such, same with the angels. Warren Worthington III is not half actual angel, but all mutant whom looks like an angel. Same difference.
vlad3theimpaler
02/08/2010, 13:09
He is a mutant, there's a whole bunch of Mutant figures that weren't given the Mutant keyword, including all 5 Bishop figures, Omega Red, AoA Cyclops, Domino, all 4 Havoks etc, the rationale being that there were already too many Mutants, so "no more mutants".
Actually, to my knowledge Omega Red ISN'T a mutant. I believe he got this powers from experimentation by the Soviet Red Room trying to create their own version of a Super Soldier or Weapon X.
...Still doesn't explain why he has NO keywords, though...
Ouchmaker
02/08/2010, 14:47
Actually, to my knowledge Omega Red ISN'T a mutant. I believe he got this powers from experimentation by the Soviet Red Room trying to create their own version of a Super Soldier or Weapon X.
...Still doesn't explain why he has NO keywords, though...
Some might disagree: http://marvel.wikia.com/Arkady_Gregorivich_(Earth-616))
Just like Wolverine had the claws and the healing factor, Arkady had his "death spores" even before the experiments.
He should have had the Mutant and Soldier keywords atleast.
Nightcrawler's father is Azazel (http://marvel.wikia.com/Azazel), his mother is Mystique.
vlad3theimpaler
02/08/2010, 18:29
Some might disagree: http://marvel.wikia.com/Arkady_Gregorivich_(Earth-616))
Just like Wolverine had the claws and the healing factor, Arkady had his "death spores" even before the experiments.
He should have had the Mutant and Soldier keywords atleast.
Nightcrawler's father is Azazel (http://marvel.wikia.com/Azazel), his mother is Mystique.
Huh, I though that all came from the experiments. Was it always like that, or did it get retconned like Wolverine?
adam1der
02/08/2010, 18:55
Huh, I though that all came from the experiments. Was it always like that, or did it get retconned like Wolverine?
Always like that. His spores worked against everything unless you didn't need to breathe like Colossus and every time him and Wolverine fought whether it was 18+ hrs. or 10 minutes, he'd win. The carbonadium coils are supposed to be a more flexible(but not as durable) form of adamantium. :classic:
Huh, I though that all came from the experiments. Was it always like that, or did it get retconned like Wolverine?
I'm pretty sure it was always like that. Part of the reason he subjected himself to the experimentation was to help control the Death Spores... the Carbonadium Synthesizer was the only thing that kept him form killing himself.
My take on the mutant keyword... would there have been a ton of them? Sure. But no more than Martial Artist, or Scientist, or probably even armor and several others. Once it was out there, it should have been given to everyone it was appropriate for... it's not like there would have been these game-breaking "mutant" teams dominating tournaments all of a sudden.
vlad3theimpaler
02/08/2010, 21:27
Always like that. His spores worked against everything unless you didn't need to breathe like Colossus and every time him and Wolverine fought whether it was 18+ hrs. or 10 minutes, he'd win. The carbonadium coils are supposed to be a more flexible(but not as durable) form of adamantium. :classic:
Well then, that's what I get for basing my knowledge off the character card and memories of the 90's tv show. Thank you all for educating me.
Neverfate
02/09/2010, 12:38
double post. . .
Neverfate
02/09/2010, 12:38
I'm pretty sure it was always like that. Part of the reason he subjected himself to the experimentation was to help control the Death Spores... the Carbonadium Synthesizer was the only thing that kept him form killing himself.
My take on the mutant keyword... would there have been a ton of them? Sure. But no more than Martial Artist, or Scientist, or probably even armor and several others. Once it was out there, it should have been given to everyone it was appropriate for... it's not like there would have been these game-breaking "mutant" teams dominating tournaments all of a sudden.
Not to mention half the mutant figures suck. They all do just about the same damn thing. You know how many X-Men have energy explosion vs Support?
Look at Scientist. The most diverse spread of powers and abilities, it's stupid.
But nah. . . Mutant is somehow more unbalancing than that.
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