SHIELD Team Clarification

[shin-goji]

This came up at a tourney and after reading the PAC I found something interesting which should make me look clueless to the obvious.

The PAC reads:
S.H.I.E.L.D.: A friendly Figure occupying a square adjacent to a SHIELD agent delivers 1 extra click of damage when it hits with a ranged combat attack. This counts as a move action for the SHIELD agent, though the character does not move.

So if Bullseye hits, and taps two SHIELD agents, he'll do an extra +2. But if he MISSES, then the SHIELD agents don't get tokens put on them because the attack did not hit. This may sound obvious, but we've always been playing that even if you miss you still put tokens on the SHIELD agents you declared were gonna assist.

[HeroComplex]

Marvel FAQ
This ability activates at the same time as the ranged combat action of the adjacent friendly figure. Use of this ability is declared before the dice are rolled. The S.H.I.E.L.D. figures being used are assigned actions and tokens whether or not the attack succeeds.You've been playing right all along. :)

[shin-goji]

Ok, just seemed odd by the wording when it was shown to me. I couldn't believe that I had been playing SHIELD wrong for almost a year. The wording is messed up, but the intent is clear :)

[Spidersense]

An interesting subplot to this is that some players will declare tapping the Shield agent AFTER the attack. That is a big no no. You try it and either hit or miss. You are taking the tokens regardless.

Another ability I see misunderstood alot is the Hydra ability. Hydra needs line of sight to the target to add to the attack value. Sometime players want to lineup behind the attacking piece and declare a Hydra enhancement. I have missed this a couple of times.

[shin-goji]

Hydra and SHIELD I think are some of the most misunderstood team abilities around. Many players get confused over who needs line of sight to who.

[kryptonboy]

But I thought you couldn't use the S.H.I.E.L.D. ability with RCE. Or can you because it's not a superpower, but rather a team ability. Clarification for the idiot please.

[HeroComplex]

From the FAQ
While Ranged Combat Expert cannot be used in connection with other powers, it can be used in connection with team abilities. Thus, while a Ranged Combat Expert attack cannot be enhanced, a S.H.I.E.L.D. figure could add a click of damage to that attack by using the S.H.I.E.L.D team ability.

[shin-goji]

SHIELD is one of the few things you can use with RCE, that and probability control.

[duncan2222]

...and do the tokens received by the SHIELD agents count towards the total number of actions you have each turn?

[Spidersense]

Yup. Otherwise, it could get REAL ugly.

[shin-goji]

Before we figured this out, Graf Zemo's brother gobsmacked my Veteran Sabretooth for over 8 clicks of damage with his custom ultimate Captain America who was surrounded by an adoring gaggle of SHIELD Monkeys. Sabretooth wasn't too pleased.

[Funky Jett]

SHIELD ability gives +1 to damage of a Ranged Attack
SHIELD ability does not require LoF
SHIELD ability costs a token for each bonus added

Hydra ability gives +1 to Attack Value of a Ranged Attack
Hydra ability requires LoF
Hydra ability does not cost anything

[Teletran]

Okay...here's a new question on top of the SHIELD ability... (unless I just missed a post on this)

Would SHIELD ability enhance the damage caused by a telekinetic object attack?

Say Jean Gray uses Telekinesis on a light object to hit a rookie Thug, can an adjacent SHIELD fig pump up the damage to 3 instead of the normal 2?

[HeroComplex]

Both Enhancement and SHIELD can boost TK object damage, yep.

[musicjoeuk]

i was confused by this rule, but its been cleared up in another thread but here's a nice (but could be costly) shield move.

Vet Magneto, 400 point game, 4 adjacent shield characters, a successful leadership roll, and a black panther in the mix to outwit = an attack of 8 damage. Wicked, but no other moves for this turn, but if you hit you ko the oppenent, (most likely) i had based this strategy on my friends intended use of Fixit, will try it out today. (if leader ship fails, i'll only go for 1 sheild support, and if i hit only land a 5, this clicks him past inv. back onto toughness, another click would give him regeneration, and i don't want that.

also same senario with a vet shiel sniper, this'll deliver 6 clicks (assuming successful attack and leadership roll) at a range of 10 squares. I LIKE SHIELD.
If you miss its bad, cos your characters are marked, but hey you can always push em all the next go, and if you have medics, there's always healing. (sadly i have only one medic, but heaps of troopers and snipers) and in 400 point game i'll have an ex firelord with some shields for the next turn.

I have only just realised that such big hits were possible, now i am re-reading the rules and team abilities for anything else i might of missed.

Joe

[kryptonboy]

Can I use a S.H.I.E.L.D. guy next to Superman when he chucks a forklift at evil doers to do an extra click? Cause you know, those evil doers need a spankin!

[Tsannik]

From what I understand....

The SHIELD team ability can be used with any figure performing a Ranged Combat Action. It will only add damage to those actions that first produce damage (i.e. Mind Control normally does no damage, so SHIELD doesn't add).

So, a SHIELD team member would be able to add to the damage of Superman throwing an object at range.

[TheSpirit]

The distinction between doing 0 damage and doing no damage is important. If you use someone like Hawkeye with a 0 damage (say his RCE is outwitted), you can still increase the damage with SHIELD.

But wasn't there a ruling that if you got a critical hit with MC, that could be increased through the SHIELD ability? Yes, it's a less than 3% chance of success, but it is technically possible. If you don't get the crit, the SHIELD still gets the token. It may have been in Magister's tenure...

[Tsannik]

No, you're right... that's still a ruling...

I didn't mention it, because.....I was tired....Britney and I were doing the drugs and... well read about it in the Star.

Mind Control does no damage. SHIELD team ability normally will not help this.... unless the attack roll is a 12. Since that will automatically at +1 to no damage.... then the damage will be +1 and however many SHIELD members used their ability before the dice were rolled.

[Doctor Strange]

You can however enhance a ranged attack made by a character using incapicitate since incapacitate does 0 damage.

Another suprise tactic (that probably a very bad idea) is to make a ranged attack with Xavier. You can boost his zero damage up. It will be worth the shock value alone and if you have enough, it might be worth your whole turn as well ;)

[webhead817]

Tsannik, where did you get this "The SHIELD team ability can be used with any figure performing a Ranged Combat Action. It will only add damage to those actions that first produce damage (i.e. Mind Control normally does no damage, so SHIELD doesn't add)" from, I don't see that in the faq or the pac.

[Tsannik]

Well... ah....

Of course, the PAC states that SHIELD will add to any ranged combat attack...

But I assume you are more interested in the 'actions that produce damage' part...

You're right it's not printed anywhere.

This is one of those obscure rulings you are just supposed to know, I guess....

I'm sure there is something in the Wizkids Judges forum.

[webhead817]

Hmmm, doesn't ring a bell. My understanding has been that SHIELD/Enhancement could bump up both Incapcitate and Mind Control ranged attacks. In fact, without something in writing, I'd be afraid to make the ruling that you couldn't.

[Gotwald]

The best times I have had with sheild troops has been with EE. Get vet or LE Boomerang to target three figs w/ EE and add the sheild ability to all of the hits and splash damage.
At first I do not think it was legal since I could do so much damage, but the FAQ sheet backs this up.

[Tsannik]

Very well......

Lemme stop 'working' and look that up...

[Tsannik]

Posted by WarlordXanth, in thread "Mind Control and Enhancement"
Well, MC does not do damage unless a critical hit is rolled. Based on this I would think that the Shield ability and Enhance would not have any affect unless you rolled the critical hit. That means you would have to gamble on small odds if you wanted to SHIELD the attempt. This is different than Incapacitate which could be enhanced on any successful roll.

Posted by HeroComplex, in thread "Q about Enhancement"
Enhancement works exactly like SHIELD in terms of what it can pump up, meaning that it can always boost Incapacitate attacks, but will only work on Mind Control if the MCer happens to roll a critical hit.

Edited: I looked and looked... if there was a Chapeau-ism about this, it's gone to archive....

[HeroComplex]

I'm about to head out for the day, but before I do---Tsannik's got the current ruling right. SHIELD applies a general "floating +1" to a ranged attack that will increase whatever damage is dealt by 1 click. For something like Incapacitate, 0 damage is a valid amount, and so the SHIELD ability can increase that 0 to 1 and so on.

However, the PAC has a distinction between Mind Control and Incapacitate regarding damage---Incapacitate has that 0 value, but Mind Control doesn't do damage at all. In fact, a strict interpretation of the PAC doesn't even have the MCer reduce his damage stat---it's just that the damage stat is irrelevant because there is no damage associated with the attack. The SHIELD ability increases whatever damage is being dealt, but in this case there isn't any being dealt and so the SHIELD ability is helpless.

However, once a critical hit is rolled there is a legitimate damage value for the attack which can be increased, but only if you declared the SHIELD ability before rolling.

[webhead817]

I can follow that logic, although it doesn't seem like the critical hit should be allowed to add to the Mind Control either then. Hmmmm. This will be a tough one to explain to the kids.

[Tsannik]

Just be like...

Webhead: "Kids this is how it works..."
Kids: "Why does it work that way?"
Webhead: "Because, it just does."
Kids: "I don't understand!"
Webhead: "We're from Ohio. I'm sorry."

:p

[double_a]

webhead817 - you're on the right track about Mind Control: it should not allow damage with a critical hit.

However, they made a special FAQ ruling to allow a click of damage when a critical hit is rolled. Without that FAQ exception, double 6's would not add damage to a Mind Control attack.

You'll notice there's no special mention of critical hit damage for Incapacitate - it doesn't need one because as HeroComplex pointed out INC reduces damage to 0 (similar to EE) so there's no problem in adding to zero.