confused by knockback

[admironheart]

Hey all,

I read that 'knockback damage' can be reduced by Toughness, etc.

{how about Super Senses?}
or
{Impervious' 5+ or 6+ save?}

Now on to the real points.

Lets say I have hercules with Toughness.

If he takes 1 click of damage on doubles...he takes no knockback correct as no clix of damage were applied?

I assume I am correct in how this works. What I do not understand is the statement that Knockback can be reduced by Toughness, etc. Where is it going with that line of thought?

How I am reading it...and it seems wrong...is...
So If hercules is hit for 2 clix of damage on doubles, His Toughness reduces the damage to 1 clix and he is moved back 1 space{lets say he is at the edge of the map and cannot move so takes 1 clix of knockback damage} If this is the case then his Toughness reduces the Knockback damage to 0?

Is there Knockback from an Incapacitate attack? I assume not?? Since no damage is taken from Incapacitate, could there be Knockback damage and thus the Toughness could come into play here.

I am just curious if I am looking at this all wrong or what
thanks
wes

[Cigarman]

And what happens when a figure is knocked back directly into another figure? Do both take damage?

Cigarman

[HeroComplex]

Toughness and Invulnerability are capable of reducing knockback, but it doesn't come up very often. The damage from the direct attack and from the knockback can only be reduced once overall. You're right that reducing the damage to 0 means that the amount of knockback applied is equal to 0, and so in most situations Toughness and Invulnerability will already be "spent" before knockback damage comes into play.

However, there are always exceptions. The one that comes up most often, I believe, is Force Blast. There is no original damage, and so knockback damage comes into play without damage-reduction powers having yet been used. Toughness and Invulnerability can reduce knockback damage generated by Force Blast for this reason. Impervious, however, cannot, as per the FAQ.

In your two examples: for the first, you're right that his Toughness means he suffers a knockback of 0 and therefore doesn't hit the wall. In the second, 1 click of damage from the direct attack slips past Toughness, causing him to be knocked back into the wall for 1 click of damage, meaning that in total he takes two clicks.

Knockback can occur with Incapacitate, but it will be in the amount of 0 unless somehow the Incapacitate causes damage. So, if a critical hit is rolled, if Enhancement is used, or if the SHIELD ability is used then the Incap will do damage and if doubles are rolled then there will be knockback in that amount.

Hope that helps.

EDIT: And being knocked into a figure causes no damage for anyone.

[clixman1964]

The damage from being knocked back into a wall(or edge of the board) is added to the original damage and taken all at once.
So in your example Hercules would take three clix of damage(2 originally and 1 from the edge) and his Toughness would reduce it to two clix.

Super Senses and Impervious will work against the original attack, but you won't get a second roll for hitting the wall. And if you take enough damage to get knocked back then you're going to take the damage for hitting the wall.

What I think they're refering to is the Force Blast power which causes knockback but doesn't do any damage unless the figure is knocked into a wall or off elevated terrain. In which case, Toughness and Invulnerability will reduce the damage, but Super
Senses and Impervious won't because the damage isn't coming from a directed source.

[Nickel97]

Originally posted by clixman1964
The damage from being knocked back into a wall(or edge of the board) is added to the original damage and taken all at once.
So in your example Hercules would take three clix of damage(2 originally and 1 from the edge) and his Toughness would reduce it to two clix.

Super Senses and Impervious will work against the original attack, but you won't get a second roll for hitting the wall. And if you take enough damage to get knocked back then you're going to take the damage for hitting the wall.



A more accurate way to say it is that Attack Damage and Knockback Damage are part of the same attack action/die-roll, and Thus, toughness/invulnerability is only applied once.

The reason is that in the above example, Hercules only gets knocked back one square (2 attack damage - toughness = 1 damage = 1 square of knockback) if that knockback would cause additional damage, then he takes another damage.

It makes a bizzare loop to say that hercules would take 3 damage minus toughness, because knockback distance is the amount of damage taken, and you have to know howfar a figure would get knockedback before you can necessarily know whether they take damage from the knockback. Damage has to be dealt for combat knockback to occur. If hercules had invulnerability, he'd take no damage in the above instance, and thus no knockback would be incurred.

Basically the "prevents knockback damage" clause of toughness/invulnerability only really applies to forceblast.