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lancelot
02/23/2010, 13:52
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=669&pictureid=7912

Featuring:THE JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA
http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/public/news_images/4/88779_235419_1.jpg

Easily THE Golden Age DC team that seemed to always attract plenty of reboots, deaths, and resurrections over the years, translating into a roster flux that practically changed from issue to issue. Take a look inside to see the first incarnation of one of DC's most celebrated teams, straight from the cover of All-Star Comics #3!

lancelot
02/23/2010, 13:52
One of the original DC teams, this squad always held a special place in my heart, trumping those JSA-wanna-be's, the JLA. With a history as convoluted as the X-Men's, it takes a dedicated reader to sift through the mess of members that have been inducted into the ranks of the JSA and forever immortalized in the JSA Museum. Today, we'll look at All-Star Comics #3, which had one of the most iconic line-ups, according to the front-cover roster.

Now, since it's well known that the Atom has not been made into Heroclix, we will begin with a man wearing a gas-mask and invading your dreams...THE SANDMAN!
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/marvel_dc/images/thumb/3/35/Sandman_-_Wes_Dodds_1.JPG/200px-Sandman_-_Wes_Dodds_1.JPG
or086 U Sandman
Team: Justice Society
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 59
Keywords: All Star Squadron, Detective, Justice Society
m-boota-fistd-shieldg-starburst791727101726916268162581515715157151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
A straightforward piece: park in hindering and PC away. Stealth protects him from any incoming ranged attacks; Willpower will allow him to constantly ping away; and Smoke Cloud is mostly situational but it just might be enough to bump up an ally's Defense and make it harder on the opponent to hit the high defenses. Just mind click #2 where he gains a point of AV and Incapacitate but loses Stealth and PC. Quickly push him to click #3 which he then gains MC on top of Incap and PC. Another point of damage or push will Stealth him again with a dose of Close Combat Expert with Close Combat Reflexes keeping him safe in close. Coupled with the JSA, we're talking about 20 Defense up close, so as soon as you see those clicks, send Sandman in as a secondary tie-up piece.

Headlining your team on the offensive and defensive side of things is THE SPECTRE!
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b44/bardster/spectre/spectre.jpg
cr059 U The Spectre
Team: Quintessence
Range: 10 :bolt:
Points: 234
Keywords: Detective, Herald, Justice Society, Mystical
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-giant1011185101119410101848101748101738101639916399153109153109153KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Ghostly Guardian: The Spectre can use Charge, Phasing/Teleport, and the Justice Society team ability.
(Damage) Vengeance: Give the Spectre a power action to make a close combat or ranged combat attack, replacing his damage value with the damage value of his target until the action is resolved; the attack is penetrating damage.

This Ghostly Guardian will make or break your team, as far as Defense goes. One of the members on this squad with a natural 18 leading to a natural 19 Defense, it's a no-brainer fact that keeping the Spectre alive pretty much translates into keeping the higher defenses for the rest of your team. However, this works only for the first 4 clicks before the Spectre returns to the mystical underworld and carries out his acts of vengeance. However, before he does so, his presence on the battlefield cannot be ignored. Immune to Outwit, packing a range of 10, 11 AV with Super Strength, and a starting 18 DV with Impervious, be sure to be attacking every 2 of 3 turns, laying the hurt down on the opposition. You *must* mind the mid-dial clicks where the Spectre is at his weakest, with only Super Senses to protect him from attacks and Regeneration to hopefully get back to the Impervious clicks. On his back dial, he sports Vengeance, which allows him to deal penetrating damage at a whim. Again, your team goes as far as the Spectre goes: without quite a dedicated offensive front and the defensive boosts, the rest of your team will become "regular".

Zipping around and punching people in the face before they know what hit them is THE FLASH!
http://loknar54.com/images/JayGarrick1.jpg
aa056 U The Flash
Team: Justice Society
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 120
Keywords: Central City, Justice Society, Past, Scientist
m-boota-fistd-starburstg-starburst12101821110172119162139152129162118172118172KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
(Speed) Cosmic Treadmill: The Flash can use Hypersonic Speed and Phasing/Teleport. When the Flash uses Phasing/Teleport, he can use the Carry ability.
(Attack) Supersonic Punch: The Flash can use Quake as part of a close combat attack (instead of a close combat action), but targets of the attack are not knocked back.
(Defense) Fastest Man Alive: The Flash Can use Energy Shield/Deflection and Super Senses.

Filling in the harasser role, play The Flash as if there was no tomorrow. Keeping in mind that he has high defenses thanks to the JSA TA, he should always be zipping around, looking for soft targets to beat up with his HSS/Quake. Packing his own PC, on the 2nd and 3rd clicks, Jay ensures he doesn't need outside help hitting his targets. Just be sure to get back into adjacency with an ally: that ES/D on top of Super Senses with the JSA TA will give him an effective 21 Defense from range with 33% chance of missing an incoming attack outright. The back-dial Willpower will help him stay in the fight much longer than he should.

Swooping in from high, bashing in your skull with his mace is HAWKMAN!
http://dailypop.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/hawkman.jpg
or060 V Hawkman
Team: Justice Society
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 135
Archenemy: Shadow Thief (Orange)
Keywords: Justice Society, Warrior
m-winga-fistd-shieldg-starburst10121741011174101117391016291016289163891527915278142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Finally, a taxi (at least, a dedicated one)! A dial without any surprises, it's quite easy playing Hawkman: taxi in Hourman or the Atom and watch them swing away! Hawkman's quite pushable in the fact he can taxi the first turn, push and smack the opposition on the 2nd turn for a whopping total of 6 damage on top of 12 Attack, getting to his damage reducer clicks. ES/D, again coupled with the JSA TA, gives him a 21 DV at range, way more than enough to keep Carter in the fight so try and keep him top-dial for as long as it takes until a threat looms. He softens up somewhat mid-dial with Flurry and only 2 damage, so choose your targets wisely. There's one interesting click to try and capitalize on, click 7's Charge/Quake combo...try and find a cluster of soft targets. Hopefully, Hawkman will be able to use the Regeneration to try and regain some lost clicks.

Weaving protection and spells for this squad is DOCTOR FATE!
http://semantink.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/DrFate-FINAL.jpg
or212 LE Dr. Fate
Team: Justice Society
Range: 6 :bolt::bolt:
Points: 134
Keywords: Justice Society, Mystical
m-winga-fistd-starburstg-starburst9101639916389152881528814277142771326713266121KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Another character dedicated to PC, Dr. Fate will serve as the team's primary set-up man, especially when you push him onto Telekinesis. Very little thought is needed to play Dr. Fate: set him up in a sense where he can TK whoever you need to be flung into the fight and be able to either PC/Perplex the following attack. Losing TK, Dr. Fate turns into a desperate run-and-gun figure with ES/D and a smattering of Incapacitate and Psychic Blast...at 8 or below AV. Use Fate carefully as you want to TK your allies into battle as often as you can. Failing that, he can support the team with Perplex and PC.

Bringing the light of the Green Lantern's might is ALAN SCOTT!
http://acomicbookblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/alan-scott1.jpg
or076 R Green Lantern
Team: Justice Society
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 85
Archenemy: Sentinel (Green)
Keywords: All Star Squadron, Justice Society, Mystical
m-winga-fistd-starburstg-starburst1010173891739916298152871538714277142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Alan comes with a dial that screams for Stunning Blow, which is what he should be equipping. Period. With a healthy swing of 13 and a very admirable 10 AV and 3 damage for a 85 point figure is just too much of a steal. Add ES/D in relation to the JSA TA and you have a lottery winner! High Defense and decent attack translate to a cheap shoot and forget cannon. Mid-dial Phasing will allow Alan to reposition himself for the best shot possible. The Barrier that shows up on the back end of the dial just might help mid- to late-game where you will need the power to shutter in opposing figures or protect allies under fire.

Lastly but not least, clocking in is HOURMAN!
http://www.comics101.com/comics101//news/Comics%20101/19/hourman.jpg
lg014 E Hourman
Team: Justice Society
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 85
Keywords: Justice Society
m-boota-fistd-starburstg-starburst79152810163891538916278152781426713267122KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
The only dial on the squad with an activation click, this dude just might surprise the opposition, especially when he takes his hour-long serum! The opening click not counted, Hourman is respectable as a close-up brick with the usual Charge/Super Strength combo with a healthy dose of damage reducers throughout the entire dial. What will surprise your opponents is the mid-dial PC, giving the JSA a total of THREE PC'ers. Anybody would know that even a 3 rolled three times over can turn into a critical miss! Back-dial CCE keeps Hourman hitting hard, especially when he has his Defense bolstered by the JSA TA.

After accounting for everything, the team comes out to:

Sandman + Running Start + Ambush 59 + 5 + 5
The Spectre + Shellhead + Protected 234 + 10 + 8
The Flash + Armor Piercing 120 + 10
V Hawkman 135
LE Dr. Fate 134
R Green Lantern + Stunning Blow 85 + 10
E Hourman
---------------------------------------------------
900 points on the nose.

Quite the squad there! At any given point, you could have 3 Perplexers and 3 PC'ers, ensuring your Defense is shored up or your Attack sticks! Obviously, capitalizing on the Defense is key, so be sure to push Spectre onto the 19DV click; Shellhead and Protected will ensure he stays there when he's exposed on the push. The rest of the team will carry their own weight just fine, just as long as you have Dr. Fate at the ready to fling them wherever hot spots are to cool them down before Spectre comes in and deals his final judgment!

Hope you all liked this article; check back in two weeks for yet another iconic team!

lancelot
02/23/2010, 13:53
Sorry for being late.

Here it is, granting a reader's request!

Hope *you* liked it! (you know who you are! :laugh: )

mr-coffin
02/23/2010, 13:57
Great article. Speaking of feats I think I would prefer Coordination on sandman to the 2 you have but your mileage may vary.

Edited to reflect new 900 point version.

Amora's_best_friend
02/23/2010, 13:59
When you reach Hawkman you say "Finally a taxi!" - but both Atom Smasher and Spectre can carry figures too - and both of them are preferable because they can lend their defenses to JSAers they carry (Sandman or Hourman).

A nice 1000 point theme team. The JSA are all pretty competitive. I love how Hourman actually has a good first click - 9 attack is so worth it.

Strangely sexist too - 9 members of the team with no female members at all.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 14:00
When you reach Hawkman you say "Finally a taxi!" - but both Atom Smasher and Spectre can carry figures too.

A nice 1000 point theme team. The JSA are all pretty competitive.

Strangely sexist too - 9 members of the team with no female members at all.
Ah, I was going to edit in (at least, a dedicated one).

Agreed on the sexist tone. When'd Hippolyta make the team?

Ignatz_Mouse
02/23/2010, 14:01
Wrong "Atom" by the way. The JSA one has never been made as a fig, and would be more like Wildcat (he was just a short fighter) than like Ray Palmer.

The fig you show doesn't have the keyword because he's the wrong guy. The Golden Age Atom is there on the cover on the far left. You label him Atom Smasher, but that's just the Atom. Atom Smasher's costume is a tribute to the original Atom (who was his godfather).

Also, the Hourman clix is the original's son, but the dial would basically be the same.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 14:01
Great article. i would be tempted to use the V Hawkman though to get the TA, although you would have to give up many of the feats then. Speaking of feats I think I would prefer Ambush to Running start on Sandman but your mileage may vary.

Yep on the V, quite costly...would prefer the feats.

As for Ambush...true, if he was a close-combat piece. In my opinion, he isn't...however, he could benefit from it back-dial, though.

beecaveman
02/23/2010, 14:01
I don't get it. Is the Atom some kind of inside joke?

lancelot
02/23/2010, 14:02
Wrong "Atom" by the way. The JSA one has never been made as a fig, and would be more like Wildcat (he was just a short fighter) than like Ray Palmer.

Ahhh, no wonder! Admittedly, my readership on the JSA doesn't go THAT FAR BACK!

What was his real name, this Atom? Ah, wait a minute, Atom = Atom Smasher? If so, I'm SO EDITING the first post...and the team.

Yep, a quick search/research came up with this factoid.

Team has been edited to the 900 point version.

crazymike2501
02/23/2010, 14:05
very nice. wish i had some of those figs.

tom730
02/23/2010, 14:06
Am I actually the first to point out that the JSA is GOLDEN Age, not Silver Age -
and that they were the FIRST ever super team
and that the Atom is in the bottom left of the cover and is in no way the Ray Palmer shrinking version...
and I'll leave it to Mr_JTR and CustomCreator to point out the other mistakes!

BTW, among my numerous JSA and ISA customs I have a custom Al Pratt (JSA) Atom who is on a R Wildcat base - works pretty well!

flippingwillies
02/23/2010, 14:07
The Atom on that cover is Al Pratt, the original Atom. He's Damage's biological father and Atom Smasher's godfather, hence the costume similarities.

tom730
02/23/2010, 14:08
Wrong "Atom" by the way. The JSA one has never been made as a fig, and would be more like Wildcat (he was just a short fighter) than like Ray Palmer.

The fig you show doesn't have the keyword because he's the wrong guy. The Golden Age Atom is there on the cover on the far left. You label him Atom Smasher, but that's just the Atom. Atom Smasher's costume is a tribute to the original Atom (who was his godfather).

Also, the Hourman clix is the original's son, but the dial would basically be the same.

beat me to it -
funny that my custom Atom is exactly as you suggested though - on a R Wildcat base!
(great minds?)

tom730
02/23/2010, 14:10
Also never really liked the Hourman version they did in HC, since he wasn't the Golden Age version, so I had CustomCreator make me one using the U Superman base from ORIGIN - good powers, no flight or range, JSA keyword!
I've got to learn how to post these customs some day!!!

Pepsirox08
02/23/2010, 14:11
I don't like feats, so i made a 1000 pt JSA team as well:

The Spectre 234
V Hawkman 135
E Dr. Fate 113
U Flash 101 (The best!)
R Green Lantern 85
Liberty Belle 84
LE Jennifer Lynn Hayden 74
E Wildcat 66
U Sandman 59
E Dr. Midnite 43

Total 994 (enough room for a feat or two)

You could take out Wildcat to put in V Atom but i like Wildcat.

mocker
02/23/2010, 14:17
The original Atom was Al Pratt, as Ignatz_Mouse indicated he's on the left corner with the blue mask.

He's one of the original "masked mystery men", he had no powers other than his iron will and "tough-as-nails" approach to kicking his opponents butts! Trained by a boxer to his vigilante fighting weight! He was called the Atom because he was a short guy.

He did get super-strength from some "energy's" he was exposed to later on in his career after fighting a villain named the Cyclotron! No...I didn't make that name up. LOL!

Nuff' Said!

Mocker

Ahhh, no wonder! Admittedly, my readership on the JSA doesn't go THAT FAR BACK!

What was his real name, this Atom? Ah, wait a minute, Atom = Atom Smasher? If so, I'm SO EDITING the first post...and the team.

flatmatt
02/23/2010, 14:21
I had a really hard time picking out an Atom dial for my planned mod of him, but eventually settled on U Guardian from Collateral Damage. Still not the best substitute, but it's what we've got.

Nightwing-fan
02/23/2010, 14:23
We still need the Atom Al Pratt as a clix figure.

ARE YOU LISTENING WIZKIDS?????

Good Article by the way. I prefer using the Vet Hawkman instead of the one you listed. Now do you remember their secret IDs? I do.

From bottom left to right.

Al Pratt
Wesley Dodds
Jim Corrigan
Jay Garrick
Carter Hall
Kent Nelson
Alan Scott
Rex "Tick Tock" Tyler

Also from looking at the list of them in the comic cover you see that Johnny Thunder & Thunderbolt are missing from the picture. Johnny went by his real name and he was the convention exclusive piece fron Gencon Indianapolis, I believe in 2007 was when he was released. He's part of Origin and was 109 points.

batfink
02/23/2010, 14:29
Forcefield is a must for Hawkman & Green Lantern, as is Stunning Blow.
I've thought of using Puck as a substitute for Al Pratt.

theanalogkid
02/23/2010, 14:31
For those that say Rex isn't represented in Heroclix, the R Hourman doesn't have any PC and thus makes a fine Golden Age stand in. As someone who plays the JSA in all their myriad forms regularlly, trust me, he is just fine.

tom730
02/23/2010, 14:44
For those that say Rex isn't represented in Heroclix, the R Hourman doesn't have any PC and thus makes a fine Golden Age stand in. As someone who plays the JSA in all their myriad forms regularlly, trust me, he is just fine.

He's not bad, but with "Infinity Inc" and "Teen" as keywords I'm still WAY better off going with my custom using ORIGIN U Superman's base! I love the modest but useful dial, especially the L/C and Super Strength as well as the JSA keyword!

gatharion
02/23/2010, 15:05
For those that say Rex isn't represented in Heroclix, the R Hourman doesn't have any PC and thus makes a fine Golden Age stand in. As someone who plays the JSA in all their myriad forms regularlly, trust me, he is just fine.

Yup, same here. I repainted my R Hourman to be in Rex's costume.

We still need the Atom Al Pratt as a clix figure.

ARE YOU LISTENING WIZKIDS?????


Ditto. Al Pratt is pretty much the TOP figure on my clix wishlist.


V Origins Hawkman is my ALL TIME FAVORITE Heroclix piece, but he's really more of a representation of the modern Hawkman who has more memories of past lives and has figured out more tricks with the Nth metal. (Hence the 12 attack, super strength, and regen.) The R Origins Hawkman is a decent package for the points and has the right keywords, but the lack of JSA TA and, more importantly, the lack of Leadership really bugs me.
That's why I reach all the way back to Hypertime for my choice to represent the Winged Wonder on Golden Age JSA teams.
ht131 LE Carter Hall
Team: Justice Society
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 54
Keywords: Mystical, Justice Society
m-winga-fistd-starburstg-starburst109153109153881428814277131671215611146101KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
Slap Contingency Plan on him and the original super team gets a capable leader and surprisingly still playable backup attacker. (Just use him for clean-up, not front-line fighting and you'll be golden.)

Not quite in the original line-up, but Johnny Thunder was soon to show up and makes a handy addition to the team.
R Wildcat and Starman are two other later Golden Age JSAers with plenty to add.

adam1der
02/23/2010, 15:08
Wonder Woman(Diana not Hippolyta) was the team's secretary. This was before all of the Earth-1, Earth-2 stuff. This was back when Superman threatened to drop criminals from great heights if they didn't talk and Batman used a gun in his first few adventures. Before Crisis on Infinite earths, there was a Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and they were later members. That Clark Kent worked at the Daily Star and his main foes were the Ultra-Humanite and Alexi Luthor and Power Girl is his cousin. His Fortress of Solitude was high up in the mountains. That Earth's Batman married Catwoman and their daughter Selena became the Huntress. :classic:

gatharion
02/23/2010, 15:13
He's not bad, but with "Infinity Inc" and "Teen" as keywords I'm still WAY better off going with my custom using ORIGIN U Superman's base! I love the modest but useful dial, especially the L/C and Super Strength as well as the JSA keyword!

I don't much attention to Keywords for that sort of thing. The biggest benefits to using the R Hourman is the right name and TA on the base (which matters to me), but you're right about that being a good dial for Rex.

Shield001
02/23/2010, 15:33
Good ol JSA :cool:

I did not realize Wildcat was not on the original team...

I just cant run a JSA team with out him :laugh:

BATMANISBRUCEWAYNE
02/23/2010, 15:38
Thanks for the article I really appreciate the article that you wrote up on the JSA and the team is going to be a beast I need to buy the The LE Dr.Fate and Iam going to use my V Hawkman instead of The R and I even built a SMALLVILLE Absolute Justice team I loved that episode a lot. Thanks for writing the article it was Awesome!!!!! I had no problem with it what so ever. Perfect!!!!
yeah it was me who suggested the article and thank you so much :)

Tim Drake
02/23/2010, 16:02
I cannot express my thrilled surprise when I logged onto the site and found my favorite team front and center on the homepage. Really excited to see a Comic Accurate JSA article.

But I haven't been able to force myself to read it because of the errors in the first few paragraphs. We're looking at a Golden Age team, not a "Silver Age" team, and as I'm sure others haven't pointed out, that's the Atom, not Atom-Smasher.

I'm sorry, I really, really want to read this but... epic fail.

gatharion
02/23/2010, 16:03
Wonder Woman(Diana not Hippolyta) was the team's secretary. This was before all of the Earth-1, Earth-2 stuff. This was back when Superman threatened to drop criminals from great heights if they didn't talk and Batman used a gun in his first few adventures. Before Crisis on Infinite earths, there was a Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and they were later members. That Clark Kent worked at the Daily Star and his main foes were the Ultra-Humanite and Alexi Luthor and Power Girl is his cousin. His Fortress of Solitude was high up in the mountains. That Earth's Batman married Catwoman and their daughter Selena became the Huntress. :classic:

Some that stuff (Power Girl, Huntress, etc) was AFTER the whole Earth-1 and Earth-2 thing was introduced.

Thanks for the article I really appreciate the article that you wrote up on the JSA and the team is going to be a beast I need to buy the The LE Dr.Fate and Iam going to use my V Hawkman instead of The R and I even built a SMALLVILLE Absolute Justice team I loved that episode a lot. Thanks for writing the article it was Awesome!!!!! I had no problem with it what so ever. Perfect!!!!
yeah it was me who suggested the article and thank you so much :)

Hawkman, Dr. Fate, and Stargirl are three great characters who have been well represented in Heroclix (well, we could use a better Dr. Fate, but he's playable).

Mr.x_20xx
02/23/2010, 16:14
Drop Shellhead and Infiltrate, and give Spectre Auto Regen.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 16:26
I'm sorry, I really, really want to read this but... epic fail.

Thanks...? :confused:

lancelot
02/23/2010, 16:27
I'm still WAY better off going with my custom using ORIGIN U Superman's base! I love the modest but useful dial, especially the L/C and Super Strength as well as the JSA keyword!

I love this idea!

Rokk_Krinn
02/23/2010, 16:28
Ahhh, no wonder! Admittedly, my readership on the JSA doesn't go THAT FAR BACK!

What was his real name, this Atom? Ah, wait a minute, Atom = Atom Smasher? If so, I'm SO EDITING the first post...and the team.

Yep, a quick search/research came up with this factoid.

Team has been edited to the 900 point version.

That might also explain why you keep calling them a Silver Age team. ;)

If it makes you feel better, Atom-Smasher is the godson of Al Pratt, the Golden Age Atom (Al would later gain atomic strength if that helps figuring out a sub dial).

Also, Superman and Batman were honourary members of the first line-up (the one you're featuring) and Ma Hunkle was also there as the Golden Age Red Tornado.

ccs
02/23/2010, 16:29
Ahhh, no wonder! Admittedly, my readership on the JSA doesn't go THAT FAR BACK!



In the future, before you write anything else under the "Comic Accurate" banner, I suggest you do your research.

Sure, we can all enjoy debating what dial to best use for characters not yet clixed.
But it's expected that you at least know who those chartacters are 1st. Likewise with the Gold/Silver/Bronze/Modern/etc terminoligy.

Tim Drake
02/23/2010, 16:33
In the future, before you write anything else under the "Comic Accurate" banner, I suggest you do your research.

Sure, we can all enjoy debating what dial to best use for characters not yet clixed.
But it's expected that you at least know who those chartacters are 1st. Likewise with the Gold/Silver/Bronze/Modern/etc terminoligy.

Exactly my point with the "epic fail" comment. I was so excited to see my favorite heroes on the front page, and then my high spirits just sank as it became obvious the original poster didn't know enough about what he was writing. Regardless of strategies and whatever, I cannot take anything he says about these characters seriously now. So... epic fail.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 16:34
In the future, before you write anything else under the "Comic Accurate" banner, I suggest you do your research.

Sure, we can all enjoy debating what dial to best use for characters not yet clixed.
But it's expected that you at least know who those chartacters are 1st. Likewise with the Gold/Silver/Bronze/Modern/etc terminoligy.

Someone must've....never mind.

Dudes, is it really that BIG of a deal that I got ONE character wrong?

Oh, well, when it comes to comic book fanboys, the answer is YES, I forget.

Tim Drake
02/23/2010, 16:48
Someone must've....never mind.

Let me go ahead and post what you sent me via PM here, just so people can finish that comment:

someone must've pizzed in your cereal this morning.

thanks for the "constructive" feedback.

effin' jerk.

:rolleyes: Maturity, much? :rolleyes:

Dudes, is it really that BIG of a deal that I got ONE character wrong?

Oh, well, when it comes to comic book fanboys, the answer is YES, I forget.

Fanboy aside (and yes, I admit, I am a JSA fanboy) - this is supposed to be a "Comic Accurate" article. So yes, given the context, it is a big deal. How would people feel if I called Wolverine or Gambit one of the original X-Men?

You're not just making a fun JSA theme team here, you're supposedly trying to give us a specific team lineup, this one from their first meeting. The fact that you at first thought Ray Palmer was the right character, and then thought it was Atom-Smasher, demonstrates that you don't know enough about the original team to write this article. Had you gone with a lineup from Geoff Johns' run or the new Willingham team, it wouldn't have been a problem. Or had you even acknowledged that you were making a substitution because the Golden Age Atom hasn't been clixed yet, I would have been satisfied... but you don't even know the difference between Golden and Silver Age.

Don't try to inform people about something when you have the facts very wrong yourself. Do your research before writing an article like this again, or just stick with modern teams that you do know. This just makes you (and by extension, HC Realms) look bad.

Rokk_Krinn
02/23/2010, 16:51
Someone must've....never mind.

Dudes, is it really that BIG of a deal that I got ONE character wrong?

Oh, well, when it comes to comic book fanboys, the answer is YES, I forget.

Well, if you're going to get riled up then here's your answer:

If you're posting something as "comic accurate" - whether we're fanboys or not - then, yes, it's important to have -accurate- information; ergo the title.

You also didn't just mess up one character, as noted by such things as the nomenclature you were using in reference to the team (i.e. - Silver Age).

It's, perhaps, even more important when you're talking to -non- Fanboys as, frankly, you're portraying yourself as an expert and they'll take your information as -accurate- (there's that word again). Inaccurate information spread by someone who's acting as authoritative becomes a vicious little weed.

Do we appreciate the fact you're willing to put yourself out on a limb by doing this? Absolutely. Folks are just saying they would apperciate your effort further if, well, they felt you had continued through and actually did 100% effort.

We all make mistakes. Would you rather us not inform you and allow you to go along doing Comic Inaccurate or help you learn?

lancelot
02/23/2010, 16:52
We all make mistakes. Would you rather us not inform you and allow you to go along doing Comic Inaccurate or help you learn?

Apologies to everyone.

Point(s) have been made.

I'll definitely put better effort towards comic book research in the future. Definitely.

Rokk_Krinn
02/23/2010, 16:53
Apologies to everyone.

Point(s) have been made.

I'll definitely put better effort towards comic book research in the future. Definitely.

That's all it takes and I, for one, will look forward to your next article. :)

Ignatz_Mouse
02/23/2010, 16:54
I think you guys are being waaaaay too harsh.

Lancelot, you got two of them wrong, besides calling them Silver Age. You got the wrogn Atom, and Atom Smasher is a (relatively) modern character, debuting in the 80's and being a present-time character, not a WWII character. the rough equivilent is if you listed Cable as a member of the Invaders, a silver-age team.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 16:57
I think you guys are being waaaaay too harsh.

Lancelot, you got two of them wrong, besides calling them Silver Age. You got the wrogn Atom, and Atom Smasher is a (relatively) modern character, debuting in the 80's and being a present-time character, not a WWII character. the rough equivilent is if you listed Cable as a member of the Invaders, a silver-age team.

That is just about when I started to read the JSA. I needed about 10 years' worth of back story to figure out Atom didn't equal Atom Smasher.

Thanks!

Tim Drake
02/23/2010, 16:57
It's, perhaps, even more important when you're talking to -non- Fanboys as, frankly, you're portraying yourself as an expert and they'll take your information as -accurate- (there's that word again). Inaccurate information spread by someone who's acting as authoritative becomes a vicious little weed.

Precisely. Based on this, any chance this can be removed from the front page until it gets revised? Were I someone who was into the JSA and new to heroclix, and this was my first exposure to HCR, I'd just roll my eyes and go elsewhere on the 'net.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 17:00
How about instead of "rolling your eyes and going somewhere else on the net" you give me some feedback, for once?

Who'd you sub in as Atom?

What changes?

Jeez...

PlotDeviceLad
02/23/2010, 17:01
Though not accurate, the idea of the article is great. I love the JSA, and I was totally looking into something similar the other day. I'd consider the Unleashed experienced Dr. Fate before the Origins one, though. It's not as diverse, but it's less points and higher DV, which team's TA is all about.

EDIT: I'm not sure who a good sub for Al Pratt would be... his son (Damage)??

lancelot
02/23/2010, 17:02
Though not accurate, the idea of the article is great. I love the JSA, and I was totally looking into something similar the other day. I'd consider the Unleashed experienced Dr. Fate before the Origins one, though. It's not as diverse, but it's less points and higher DV, which team's TA is all about.

Well, thanks for the wiggle room.

I did consider the Unleashed E Dr. Fate big time...the support powers on the LE sold me, though.

Tim Drake
02/23/2010, 17:06
^As I said, I stopped reading the article after I saw the mistakes up front. It was that major to me, so I can't give you any more feedback.

If you've been reading JSA since the 80s (as have I, since 1986 when I was 3), I'm really surprised that you haven't picked up on the difference between Atom and Atom-Smasher. It's only mentioned in nearly every issue with the latter character, and has been a somewhat notable plot point in the recent Thy Kingdom Come storyline and Blackest Night: JSA. You might actually try reading the dialogue that goes along with the pretty pictures.

I'm fully aware that comment makes me sound like a jackass. Sorry to ruffle your plumage there, lancelot, but right now, I'm fine with that.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 17:14
Precisely. Based on this, any chance this can be removed from the front page until it gets revised? Were I someone who was into the JSA and new to heroclix, and this was my first exposure to HCR, I'd just roll my eyes and go elsewhere on the 'net.

Team post has been edited to reflect that Atom IS NOT Atom Smasher and there is no suitable replacement for Atom.

Team is still 900 points.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 17:16
^As I said, I stopped reading the article after I saw the mistakes up front. It was that major to me, so I can't give you any more feedback.

If you've been reading JSA since the 80s (as have I, since 1986 when I was 3), I'm really surprised that you haven't picked up on the difference between Atom and Atom-Smasher. It's only mentioned in nearly every issue with the latter character, and has been a somewhat notable plot point in the recent Thy Kingdom Come storyline and Blackest Night: JSA. You might actually try reading the dialogue that goes along with the pretty pictures.

I'm fully aware that comment makes me sound like a jackass. Sorry to ruffle your plumage there, lancelot, but right now, I'm fine with that.
I just think you could've gone a bit better than "EPIC FAIL" to begin with. Some constructive feedback goes a long way helping someone understand a certain point.

YOU try and making an article for all to enjoy. I'd love to see that and give you some feedback, if any. I know I wouldn't be going "EPIC FAIL" on you.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 17:18
Anybody know why Johnny Thunder is listed but isn't in the picture? Did he join in this issue?

lancelot
02/23/2010, 17:24
Precisely. Based on this, any chance this can be removed from the front page until it gets revised?

This is unbelievable.

That said, article has been "revised" to appease Mr. Tim Drake.

Rokk_Krinn
02/23/2010, 18:00
Anybody know why Johnny Thunder is listed but isn't in the picture? Did he join in this issue?

Johnny was the team mascot/sidekick. He wasn't given official status until much later.

That said, he was part of things and basically should be included.

(Also be happy you didn't use the Unleashed Dr. Fate as it's a different individual and you'd have caught flak.)

Nightwing-fan
02/23/2010, 18:01
Someone must've....never mind.

Dudes, is it really that BIG of a deal that I got ONE character wrong?

Oh, well, when it comes to comic book fanboys, the answer is YES, I forget.

Lets see. One character wrong and one character missing who is listed as a team member on the cover. :grin:

A good try at the article. I will admit I dont read all of your team articles (sorry), just the ones of my favorite teams. But this one is still good ever with a few mistakes.

Keep up the good work. Its appreciated.

Rokk_Krinn
02/23/2010, 18:04
I think you guys are being waaaaay too harsh.

Lancelot, you got two of them wrong, besides calling them Silver Age. You got the wrogn Atom, and Atom Smasher is a (relatively) modern character, debuting in the 80's and being a present-time character, not a WWII character. the rough equivilent is if you listed Cable as a member of the Invaders, a silver-age team.

Frankly I felt not only was I giving constructive advice - and initially I only gave a heads-up not even a criticism - but also made sure to compliment as well. I didn't feel that was harsh but if that's what you feel is happening I'll take that into consideration.

szude
02/23/2010, 18:17
Also super-uncool:
Posting someone's PM publicly. You lost the argument and high ground right there, bub.

tom730
02/23/2010, 18:31
Am I actually the first to point out that the JSA is GOLDEN Age, not Silver Age -
and that they were the FIRST ever super team
and that the Atom is in the bottom left of the cover and is in no way the Ray Palmer shrinking version...
and I'll leave it to Mr_JTR and CustomCreator to point out the other mistakes!

BTW, among my numerous JSA and ISA customs I have a custom Al Pratt (JSA) Atom who is on a R Wildcat base - works pretty well!

After all the heat the OP took I wanted to go back to my first post on this thread and make sure it didn't spark the backlash!
If in any way it did, I apologize!

And if for nothing other than posting the iconic cover of the All-Star that started it all (as far as super groups are concerned) I want to send you a big THANK YOU!!!!
Fanboys tend to be a tough audience at best, and even with the honest mistakes the intention of bringing some Golden Age love, and the act of posting that beloved cover here on the 'realms is certainly deserving of gratitude!
During my period of recovery I really need to learn to take and post pix on this site! My customs (as well as some of the "real" versions!) allow me to build any JSA and Injustice Society teams I want! Pix of the Fiddler, original Icicle, Wizard and others taking on a JSA team including the original MR Terrific, Atom and others would make other Golden Age fans smile!!!

CarlosMucha
02/23/2010, 18:39
Yes, the JSA Atom is a MUST have for this team and unfortunatelly he is not on clix. Atom Smasher, former Nuklon from Infinity Inc don't look like a good sustitute for him.

CarlosMucha
02/23/2010, 18:47
After read all the complains..

Mmm I think is "brave" that you did this article without know deep about this team. and I will be always happy to see comic acurates articles because I love comic acurate teams! but.. yes, you have to study deeper and better before do it about a team that you don't know in deep.

I know it could be "boring" "study" the origins of a team you don't know very well, so instead of that I would recommend that you do acurate teams with Comic book teams you DO know and Love, in that way will be even more fun for you, and your love for that team will show on the article for sure.

In any case, again, thanks for the article!

BATMANISBRUCEWAYNE
02/23/2010, 18:52
I totally agree with szudes setiment. Lancelot your efforts are totally appreciated by me and Iam sure by everyone else as well :)

lancelot
02/23/2010, 18:59
Don't worry, guys, I've learned my lesson. BE THE BATMAN AND PLAN AHEAD!

:laugh:

tom730
02/23/2010, 19:07
Don't worry, guys, I've learned my lesson. BE THE BATMAN AND PLAN AHEAD!

:laugh:

Nice!
The high road wins again!:)

Invis-slayer
02/23/2010, 19:17
Another fun article, I enjoyed it despite its apparent original flaws.

Don't listen to these fools though, while they may have somewhat legitimate complaints, they have absolutely no idea how to voice their concerns in a constructive manner. Constructive criticism is constructive, being obnoxious loud and ignorant..is..well...ignorant:ermm:

Keep em coming!

mhmike
02/23/2010, 19:18
tim drakes takes his clixing seriously since 2009!!

tim drake when you've been playing cilix for as long as i have then you can come back here and write epic fail and italicize words

until then HAIL to lancelot maker of the comic accurate team threads HAIL HAIL :m-dolphin:!

lancelot
02/23/2010, 19:20
tim drakes takes his clixing seriously since 2009!!

tim drake when you've been playing cilix for as long as i have then you can come back here and write epic fail and italicize words

until then HAIL to lancelot maker of the comic accurate team threads HAIL HAIL :m-dolphin:!

I gotta give credit to Dr. Morbius for staring the Comic Accurate concept and allowing me to take care of the DC side.

Thanks, Dr. M!

Rokk_Krinn
02/23/2010, 19:59
Another fun article, I enjoyed it despite its apparent original flaws.

Don't listen to these fools though, while they may have somewhat legitimate complaints, they have absolutely no idea how to voice their concerns in a constructive manner. Constructive criticism is constructive, being obnoxious loud and ignorant..is..well...ignorant:ermm:

Keep em coming!

Yes, because coming out and calling everyone who voiced a complaint "fools" who didn't provide "constructive criticism" was so...constructive.

Might either want to keep generalities to yourself or be more specific unless, y'know, you wanted to appear foolish.

lancelot
02/23/2010, 20:04
:laugh:

Who'd think a simple article could turn into something else entirely?

Ignatz_Mouse
02/23/2010, 20:07
Frankly I felt not only was I giving constructive advice - and initially I only gave a heads-up not even a criticism - but also made sure to compliment as well. I didn't feel that was harsh but if that's what you feel is happening I'll take that into consideration.

Nit aimed at you Rokk. As I often do, I posted a while after I first started, and I had not seen you reply. It was aimed at tom and tim.

Superclone
02/23/2010, 20:18
I love me some JSA. I cut my teeth on this team and learned how to play them inside out and backwards. Great write up man. My only subs are I put the E Unleashed Dr. Fate on my teams only because I don't have the Origin one :)

Modern JSA next! Dr. Mid-nite, Power Girl, Mr. Terrific!

Tim Drake
02/23/2010, 20:32
I hadn't gotten any updates from the thread while I was at work, so I thought I'd accidentally killed it. It appears not...

Also super-uncool:
Posting someone's PM publicly. You lost the argument and high ground right there, bub.

Well, in the heat of the moment, I wasn't concerned about the high ground. Nor am I really concerned about it now. This is the internet, and the internet does not matter all that much. I was just cheesed off at what felt like an immature, uncalled-for flame. Especially when it was sent privately, when there was no need to do so. Just trying to bring it all out in the light.

tim drake when you've been playing cilix for as long as i have then you can come back here and write epic fail and italicize words

And when you learn to use punctuation and capitalization, and show respect to the English language and those who try to use it properly, then perhaps I'll be willing to take your comments into consideration. For now, I'll simply advise you to take a remedial language arts class at your local community college, while I stifle a slight fit of laughter with my sleeve.

until then HAIL to lancelot maker of the comic accurate team threads HAIL HAIL :m-dolphin:!

I have nothing against Lancelot personally, or in regards to his other articles. I've enjoyed the ones I've read since joining the Realms. My gripe was over this particular article, and why he would choose to write about a team he didn't understand. That's over. It's been explained, rehashed, and flamed to death. I'm more than ready to drop it. Made my point, the article is fixed, and he says he'll do better next time. Good show, now let it go.

PONX
02/23/2010, 21:14
is there a nice, solid JSA team build that falls somewhere in tournament play? Say like somewhere in the ball park of 300-400 points?

MacGyver2506
02/23/2010, 21:52
Sandman + Running Start + Ambush 59 + 5 + 5
The Spectre + Shellhead + Protected 234 + 10 + 8
The Flash + Armor Piercing 120 + 10
V Hawkman 135
LE Dr. Fate 134
R Green Lantern + Stunning Blow 85 + 10
E Hourman
---------------------------------------------------
900 points on the nose.

I LOVE JSA teams!!! :laugh:, but unfortunately the only figures on this team that are all that great are The Flash, V Hawkman, Spectre, and U Sandman.

I realize it's a comic accurate team and not just a Team Keyword build, so here are the changes I'd make:
(1) Swap LE Dr. Fate out for E Doctor Fate to save points and gain Psychic Blast and longer Prob Control.
(2) Swap Sandman's Running Start for Infiltrate Sandman since he has Willpower and doesn't need running start to get him into Hindering quickly. Plus, Infiltrate will help him get adjacent to a character when he gains Close Combat Expert
(3) Give The Flash and V Hawkman Contingency Plan to make up for the loss of Dr. Fate's Perplex (which is really not why you're playing him anyway...you need his Prob Control and range).

The Flash + Armor Piercing + Contingency Plan = 120 + 10 + 12
Spectre + Shellhead + Protected = 234 + 10 + 8
V Hawkman + Contingency Plan = 135 + 12
R Green Lantern + Stunning Blow = 85 + 10
Sandman + Ambush + Infiltrate = 59 + 5 + 2
E Hourman = 85
E Doctor Fate = 113
----------------------------------------------------------
Total: 900 points

Sure, you lose Fate's TK, but you gain additonal "perplex" (of sorts) from Contingency Plan since you have less characters than you have actions, and Fate will have Prob Control longer, plus he'll gain Psychic Blast which will make him much more effective from range.

gatharion
02/23/2010, 23:16
is there a nice, solid JSA team build that falls somewhere in tournament play? Say like somewhere in the ball park of 300-400 points?

I'm not really sure how to respond to this since I've been winning tournaments with JSA teams since Unleashed. There are BUNCHES of good figures and competitive teams that can be built in the 300-400 range.

Let's see, if I were trying to make an original lineup JSA team I'd probably go with:
AA Flash 120pts
Cr Spectre 234pts
Or R Green Lantern 85pts
Or Sandman 59pts
Or Dr. Fate 134pts
Or Johnny Thunder 109pts
HT Carter Hall 54pts
That's 795 pts without feats or subs for Hourman or the Atom.
Personally, I'd go ahead and use R Hourman to represent Rex. Mine has been repainted to look like the original, and has the right name, the right TA and an accurate powerset. Any judge who'd give me flack for him not having the right keyword would probably lose me as a regular player.
Le R Hourman 65 pts
round that up with:
Contingency Plan on Carter, Coordination on Sandman (this works REALLY well, I almost never play Sandman w/out Coordination), Auto Regen on Spectre, and then either Stunning Blow on Green Lantern or the Ma Hunkle pog (she appeared in that first comic.)

I'm pretty sure that I've played this exact team or at least something very similar. Strategy isn't too hard, mostly keep everyone close to one another. Spectre and GL should take the lead while Flash plays harrasser. Use a stealthed Sandman as blocking terrain if need be and Hourman as a tie-up piece; sacrifice him if need be (other than Man Hunkle) he's the most disposable one there.

As previously mentioned the U Superman from Origin could make a great sub for Hourman. Very accurate powers/stats and much more self-reliant then the rookie of that name. Wrong name (and sculpt) on the dial and no TA, but the Keyword is there at least.

Personally, I'm not happy with any of the sub possibilities for poor neglected Al Pratt. R Wildcat or Puck T-Bolted to JSA are probably your best bets.

As I previously mentioned, I REALLY want a Golden Age Atom heroclix figure. Two of them preferably, one in his original costume when he was a powerless brawler and the other from his fin-head days:
http://my.execpc.com/~icicle/GAATOM.html
with a dial that represents his "atomic punch" super power.

Old Purple Puss
02/23/2010, 23:26
NMMFF-- (http://pics.livejournal.com/starwolf_oakley/pic/004e5r2w/s320x240) :g-colossal: :g-colossal: :g-colossal:

PlotDeviceLad
02/24/2010, 00:11
(Also be happy you didn't use the Unleashed Dr. Fate as it's a different individual and you'd have caught flak.)
Who's the Unleashed Dr. Fate? Hector Hall?

gatharion
02/24/2010, 00:23
Who's the Unleashed Dr. Fate? Hector Hall?

Yes.
However, the costume and power-set is close enough to Kent Nelson's that I wouldn't throw any hissy fits about using him to represent the Golden Age version.
Same goes for Dr. Mid-Nite.

Arsenalroy2k
02/24/2010, 01:51
I've got a friend that plays JSA teams pretty frequently, and they are tough. Sometimes they're a little pricey, but they've got a strong set of different powers. Good for builds of 500 points or higher.

Minute errors of the article aside, it's tough to build Golden Age JSA teams due to the lack of the older characters. Probably equally tough to build the current lineups too, given how half the characters haven't been made yet. That's why any time I build a JSA team, I usually base it off the lineups from the Robinson/Goyer/Johns 80-something issue run that went from '99 to '06.

I even managed to compile a basic breakdown in the Comic Accurate Theme Team Resource Thread HERE. (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4487956&postcount=272)

At least they made everyone from that era.

JOwenR2
02/24/2010, 02:30
Love the team you've assembled! since everyone is talking about Atom I figured I'd post the Golden age JSA customs I made as a commission a while back :) Atom (Al Pratt), Mr. Terrific, and Johnny Quick
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=57&pictureid=7566http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=57&pictureid=7567http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=57&pictureid=7568

MacGyver2506
02/24/2010, 02:40
Ok, to those of you who need not be named, he made some mistakes. I agree he should have done his research a little better, but some of y'all were a bit too harsh in HOW you handled your comments. All you had to say was: "Hey, heads up...that picture is from the Golden Age, not the Silver Age." And, "The Atom depicted in the picture is 'Atom', not 'Atom Smasher.'
"Epic fail?" Seriously? That's a little unnessesary, just saying.
Then again, I teach, so I guess I kinda come from the mindset of, "oh look, they made a mistake but at least they tried...why don't I help them do it better?"

Great job, lancelot! I love the JSA!!!

Wonder Woman(Diana not Hippolyta) was the team's secretary. This was before all of the Earth-1, Earth-2 stuff. This was back when Superman threatened to drop criminals from great heights if they didn't talk and Batman used a gun in his first few adventures. Before Crisis on Infinite earths, there was a Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and they were later members. That Clark Kent worked at the Daily Star and his main foes were the Ultra-Humanite and Alexi Luthor and Power Girl is his cousin. His Fortress of Solitude was high up in the mountains. That Earth's Batman married Catwoman and their daughter Selena became the Huntress. :classic:
I want to move to that Earth!!! :laugh: All is well!!! :classic:

Shuttle
02/24/2010, 08:45
Am I actually the first to point out that the JSA is GOLDEN Age, not Silver Age -
and that they were the FIRST ever super team
and that the Atom is in the bottom left of the cover and is in no way the Ray Palmer shrinking version...
and I'll leave it to Mr_JTR and CustomCreator to point out the other mistakes!

BTW, among my numerous JSA and ISA customs I have a custom Al Pratt (JSA) Atom who is on a R Wildcat base - works pretty well!

I use E Puck as the dial for my Golden Age Atom, with a 5 point bump and a repainting of his TA to JSA (so, in effect, he's permanently Thunderbolted to JSA). That way I don't get a duplication of another dial on the same team.

necrodog
02/24/2010, 09:06
is there a nice, solid JSA team build that falls somewhere in tournament play? Say like somewhere in the ball park of 300-400 points?

Nothing specific is coming to mind currently, but there are a number of solid figures in the 50-150 point range: V Stargirl, V Hawkman, Wildcat, Jakeem Thunder, Dr Midnite, STRIPE, R Green Lantern, Liberty Bell just to name a few. A comic-accurate line-up is a little harder to pull off, but still doable.

tom730
02/24/2010, 11:41
I use E Puck as the dial for my Golden Age Atom, with a 5 point bump and a repainting of his TA to JSA (so, in effect, he's permanently Thunderbolted to JSA). That way I don't get a duplication of another dial on the same team.

I like that dial a lot, good choice! On the rare occasions both Atom and Wildcat would end up on the same team I use the E Wildcat and the Atom is on the R Wildcat base, so they aren't identical. My Golden Age Mr. Terrific is on a R Mr Terrific base, and I'd never have them both on the same team. Before ORIGIN my custom Green Lantern was on a R Jade base, which gave him the JSA keyword and a decent power set for an early GL - the big thing was the TK for team building purposes. Also the low point cost helped in team building! I also have a custom Spectre that I had put on a V Obsidian base - the Mystics TA, the PB and phasing all seemed right, then later he ends up getting the JSA keyword! Bonus!

Got to get a camera!!!

bullseye100
02/24/2010, 17:37
I was waiting for a DC team article. thank you!

I love JSA, its one of my favorite teams. I'm surprised to see that the whole team is 900pts. But there are a lot of heavy hitters. Up next a Modern JSA or Morrison JLA line up would be great!

Wombatboy
02/24/2010, 20:56
Thanks for picking the JSA, one of my all time favorite teams! But why does your lineup use the Veteran Hawkman instead of the Rookie, if this is supposed to be the team when it was first starting out? I can understand using the Spectre from Crisis, since there's no "Rookie" version of him (although the LE Crispus Allen from Arkham Asylum might be a good approximation of his power level then), but shouldn't all the other pieces in this team be the rookie versions?

As others have stated, the problem with trying to recreate the lineup in this cover is that the Golden Age Atom doesn't even exist as a Clix yet (maybe Puck from Mutant Mayhem would work as a proxy?). Limiting the lineup to that one issue also excludes classic JSA members like Dr. Midnite, Wonder Woman, Wildcat, Black Canary, Starman, Johnny Thunder, and the Golden Age versions of Superman and Batman. All were members of the JSA in the Golden Age, so they shouldn't be excluded because they weren't included on one issue's cover.

I do love me a good JSA team. Not too long ago I played a 400 point JSA theme team with Superman (Origins), Batman (Origins), Flash (AA) and Green Lantern-V (Origins). Although that version of Green Lantern costs a whopping 214 points, I was able to get the most out of him with Trick Shot, which made him pretty devastating as he was able to snipe through his own team for 5 damage at up to 12 spaces away from his target! Sadly I did not win that match, but I came close. I fought a Brotherhood team and it came down to House of M Magneto from Armor Wars versus Batman in hand to hand combat. Poor Bats was just outclassed.

gatharion
02/25/2010, 03:00
Limiting the lineup to that one issue also excludes classic JSA members like Dr. Midnite, Wonder Woman, Wildcat, Black Canary, Starman, Johnny Thunder, and the Golden Age versions of Superman and Batman. All were members of the JSA in the Golden Age, so they shouldn't be excluded because they weren't included on one issue's cover.

My understanding was that Superman and Batman were only ever honorary members during the Golden Age. I know they showed up now and then, but I don't recall seeing them ever go into action with the rest. (I could be wrong, I haven't read every Golden Age appearance of the team.)

theanalogkid
02/25/2010, 12:28
I liked the article a great deal, lancelot. I've enjoyed everyone you've put out. If you wish I offer my services as a DC historian to catch any error beforehand so that this won't happen again? (IG gets before me, otherwise I would have pointed out your intial mistake-and as nicely.)

crazymike2501
02/25/2010, 17:23
again thanks for the article and ideas. i made some trades last night for some justice society and cant wait to try them out.

Arsenalroy2k
02/26/2010, 16:03
As others have stated, the problem with trying to recreate the lineup in this cover is that the Golden Age Atom doesn't even exist as a Clix yet (maybe Puck from Mutant Mayhem would work as a proxy?). Limiting the lineup to that one issue also excludes classic JSA members like Dr. Midnite, Wonder Woman, Wildcat, Black Canary, Starman, Johnny Thunder, and the Golden Age versions of Superman and Batman. All were members of the JSA in the Golden Age, so they shouldn't be excluded because they weren't included on one issue's cover.

Including all those names would bring the build well over a thousand points, so I can understand him limiting it just to the gang on the cover.

And one might not need to include Batman or Superman anyways if one goes with the original Post-Crisis timeline where they were never members. Wonder Woman would be fine, since they retconned it that the Wonder Woman that was a member of the JSA at that time was Hippolyta.

TeaBee
02/26/2010, 17:39
Can someone explain how Shellhead is comic accurate on The Spectre?

aqhoffman
02/27/2010, 00:16
Been playing JSA theme teams since I started Heroclix, as I've always been a fan of DC's Golden Age characters. Took the plunge on buying a Spectre tonight just before I read the article, so very timely for me. Yeah, who'd have thought a post could turn into an ugly p*ssing match so fast, but thanks for correcting the mistake and (mostly) everyone moving on.
Earlier question- yeah, Superman and Batman did have limited story lines in the JSA, but were still honorary members, even when "with" the team.
I go with a slightly later lineup, throwing in E Wildcat and the GA Starman. Wildcat with haymaker is an addiction, even if only every third game or so does he really land a good one. The modern Liberty Belle with her higher Defense is worth playing to utilize the TA, but obviously screws up the original team idea.
Now let's get the remaining Golden Age Seven Soldiers of Victory in the BtB set or soon after!

szude
02/27/2010, 00:33
Can someone explain how Shellhead is comic accurate on The Spectre?

I guess if the match is played on the Marvel Arena map, it won't be comic accurate for you either. Or perhaps even if you play with Marvel BFCs? Sheesh.

Old Purple Puss
02/27/2010, 00:51
Can someone explain how Shellhead is comic accurate on The Spectre?

remember that movie blankman, where blankman invents that fabric that is like bulletproof and flameproof and knifeproof? that's what the spectre's cloak is made out of. duh.

Wombatboy
02/27/2010, 01:05
Hey Gatharion, Superman and Batman participated in a JSA case only once in the Golden Age, and that was in All-Star #36 in 1947 ("Five Drowned Men!"). When DC brought the JSA back in the Silver Age both were semi-active with the group (the Earth-2 Batman died in battle in 1978 in Adventure Comics #462). They also showed up in retconned WWII adventures in the All-Star Squadron title of the 1980's.

aqhoffman
02/27/2010, 02:09
It is frickin' awesome that there is this much interest out there about DC's Golden Age characters on a clix website. I hope Wizkids reflects some of that interest with the next couple rounds of DC releases. Obviously I am not the only one pulling for a GA Mr Terrific, Atom, and perhaps some of the All Star Sqdn. The modern Dr Mid-Nite and Hourman work fine for my clix GA theme teams, but we need to round out the team with those 2 figs.
I'm sure someone already mentioned it somewhere, but that Origins Wonder Woman - 50(ish) points, but a golden age looking sculpt- would seem about right on an R or E base from Cosmic Justice or the Artemis Wonder Woman one from Justice League. Anybody make/find just the right one?

thebigZZZZZ
02/27/2010, 18:19
Apologies to everyone.

Point(s) have been made.

I'll definitely put better effort towards comic book research in the future. Definitely.

oh man I really wish you could have contacted me and I would be very happy to answer your questions in regarding to JSA (and future references - LSH, JLA, Outsiders, Speed Force, etc) okay? :-)

We are living in the same suburbs, kind of...but working in the same area definltely for sure! :cheeky:

Besides those glaring errors, keep them coming! I will be happy to help you out, but please no Marvel teams since the last time I read was way back in early 90s. Better with DC teams. any teams will do!

One more thing to comment on - don't want to forget - post #17 - by Mocker -
"He did get super-strength from some "energy's" he was exposed to later on in his career after fighting a villain named the Cyclotron! No...I didn't make that name up. LOL!"

heh and also that Cyclotron had a daughter who was adopted by Firebrand II (Danette Reilly, AKA sister of Firebrand I a member of Freedom Fighters in WWII), and been also taking care by Al Pratt, too...is a biological mother of Atom Smasher! :)

thebigZZZZZ
02/27/2010, 18:31
Now let's get the remaining Golden Age Seven Soldiers of Victory in the BtB set or soon after!

yeah I agree! poor Green Arrow - he's so lonely! heh....there are several teams during WWII that all formed into one huge group called - ALL-STAR Squadron! Freedom Fighters, Blackhawks, SSV, and Young All Stars. They are the best!

Wombatboy
02/27/2010, 19:53
It is frickin' awesome that there is this much interest out there about DC's Golden Age characters on a clix website. I hope Wizkids reflects some of that interest with the next couple rounds of DC releases.

A Golden Age set would be fantastic, whether it was Marvel, DC, Red Circle (Archie characters like The Shield), or the old characters now appearing in Project Superpowers. DC probably has the largest cast to choose from (especially since they own the Red Circle characters now), but Marvel has lots of Golden Age stuff too, especially seen in recent series like The Marvels Project and The Twelve.

gatharion
02/28/2010, 18:14
yeah I agree! poor Green Arrow - he's so lonely! heh....there are several teams during WWII that all formed into one huge group called - ALL-STAR Squadron! Freedom Fighters, Blackhawks, SSV, and Young All Stars. They are the best!

Green Arrow's not completely alone. Vigilante was in the Justice League set don't forget him! And while they didn't give him the Keyword, Speedy was one of the original Seven as well; the Crisis version being the one with the right costume.
The fellow inside the S.T.R.I.P.E. suit was an original member so that sorta counts. Also the Shining Knight and Star-Spangled Kid figures we've been given can be used to sub for their namesakes (the former even has the keywords).
Even though Ollie isn't entirely alone (he has more than that stupid starfish to keep him company), I too would very much like to see more of the original Seven Soldiers of Victory made into clix.

Hey Gatharion, Superman and Batman participated in a JSA case only once in the Golden Age, and that was in All-Star #36 in 1947 ("Five Drowned Men!"). When DC brought the JSA back in the Silver Age both were semi-active with the group (the Earth-2 Batman died in battle in 1978 in Adventure Comics #462). They also showed up in retconned WWII adventures in the All-Star Squadron title of the 1980's.

I was specifically speaking about what had actually been printed during the Golden Age. Although, I didn't know about All-Star #36, thanks for that.

gatharion
02/28/2010, 18:24
Can someone explain how Shellhead is comic accurate on The Spectre?

How is Shellhead comic-accurate for ANYONE other than Ironman?

Heck, I'm not even sure how it's accurate for him! Sure, it's named after him, but just what the dang-dum-diddly is it supposed to represent?

UniqueLoginNamor
03/02/2010, 16:25
is there a nice, solid JSA team build that falls somewhere in tournament play? Say like somewhere in the ball park of 300-400 points?

I don't know if there is a comic accurate team that works well for that but usinmg Vet shazam and Exp Dr. Mid-nite and filling out the rest works beautifully.
Shazam! 217
Dr. Mid-nite 43+Invigorate 10
Flash 120+ForceField 10
400 points