jl027 The Flash HHS and PT

[AmericanPirate]

Can Flash use both HSS ans PT. We were playing the other day and wasnt sure. I was playing flash and didnt think so but im not sure.

[ChiRocker]

no, they both require a power action to be used.

[normalview]

VIBRATION: Flash can use Hypersonic Speed and Phasing/Teleport.

No. Both HSS and Phasing/Teleport are power actions. Compare to Kid Flash's SP:

UP WALLS, THOUGH WALLS: Kid Flash can use Hypersonic Speed, but only Option 1. When Kid Flash moves, he ignores the effects of characters, hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and blocking terrain on movement. He can't end his movement on blocking terrain.

Same basic effects of Phasing/Teleport, but since it works whenever he moves, there is no action incompatability.


Now if Flash's SP said something like, "Flash can use HSS. When Flash uses HSS he may also use Phasing/Teleport as a free action," you'd be okay.

[TheVagrantKing]

Can Flash use both HSS ans PT. We were playing the other day and wasnt sure. I was playing flash and didnt think so but im not sure.

Well, despite the English, here's your answer:

Flash can use Hypersonic Speed and Phasing/Teleport.

The question you're asking, is if he can use them simultaneously. The answer is no. Both Phasing and Hypersonic Speed require their own individual power actions. You cannot give a character more than one non-free action in a turn, barring the feat 'Compel'.

[scaryscrawler]

Can Flash use both HSS ans PT. We were playing the other day and wasnt sure. I was playing flash and didnt think so but im not sure.

Hypersonic Speed and Phasing/Teleport both require you to activate a power action. You can't do two power actions at the same time.

Flash can use both HSS and PT, but he can't do both at the same time.

[TheVagrantKing]

Now if Flash's SP said something like, "Flash can use HSS. When Flash uses HSS he may also use Phasing/Teleport as a free action," you'd be okay.

Would that even work like Kid Flash's SP :p? Because you can't make free actions during a Hypersonic action, wouldn't that work akin more to Flashbang? i.e. Phasing move action > Hypersonic, or Hypersonic > Phasing move action?

[normalview]

Would that even work like Kid Flash's SP :p? Because you can't make free actions during a Hypersonic action, wouldn't that work akin more to Flashbang? i.e. Phasing move action > Hypersonic, or Hypersonic > Phasing move action?

You can't make any old free action during HSS, sure, but you can make certian free actions... the attack granted by HSS, for example.

HYPERSONIC SPEED Give this character a power action. It automatically breaks away and can move through squares adjacent to opposing characters. During its move, this character can as a free action make one close combat or ranged combat attack with its range value halved for the attack.This character must be in a square where it could legally end its move in order to make the attack. This character can continue to use the rest of its movement (if any) after making the attack.


Meanwhile, Flashbang is worded as so:

FLASHBANG
Cost: 3
Prerequisite: Smoke Cloud
Choose a character. The character can use Smoke Cloud as a free action if it is given a move action immediately before or after using Smoke Cloud.
After this feat it used, remove it from the game.


See? Flashbang specifically says the free action comes before or after the action, not during. With the way I worded my hypothetical SP above, when Flash uses HSS, he can also use Phasing/Teleport. No before, no after, but when (as in, "during").

[adamkomar]

So can the Flash use Hypersonic Speed and Phasing/Teleport together?

Bwuhahaha!

[normalview]

So can the Flash use Hypersonic Speed and Phasing/Teleport together?

Bwuhahaha!

Quiet you...

[TheVagrantKing]

You can't make any old free action during HSS, sure, but you can make certian free actions... the attack granted by HSS, for example.

HYPERSONIC SPEED Give this character a power action. It automatically breaks away and can move through squares adjacent to opposing characters. During its move, this character can as a free action make one close combat or ranged combat attack with its range value halved for the attack.This character must be in a square where it could legally end its move in order to make the attack. This character can continue to use the rest of its movement (if any) after making the attack.


Meanwhile, Flashbang is worded as so:

FLASHBANG
Cost: 3
Prerequisite: Smoke Cloud
Choose a character. The character can use Smoke Cloud as a free action if it is given a move action immediately before or after using Smoke Cloud.
After this feat it used, remove it from the game.


See? Flashbang specifically says the free action comes before or after the action, not during. With the way I worded my hypothetical SP above, when Flash uses HSS, he can also use Phasing/Teleport. No before, no after, but when (as in, "during").

Well, ok, granted, but I think my point still stands ;).

Give this character a power action and move it up to its speed value. It automatically breaks away and ignores the effects of characters, hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and blocking terrain on movement (but it can’t end its movement on blocking terrain).

Is the key word there, I think. Wouldn't a 'free action Phasing/teleport' involve some kind of move independent of the Hypersonic Speed action, regardless of whether or not it was before, after or during?

I.e. If there was a figure who had that hypothetical SP, wouldn't it be an effective double move hypersonic speed? Wherein a part of the movement aspect would be phasing, and the other half regular movement?

[AmericanPirate]

thank you all. I didnt think so but i wanted to make sure.

[normalview]

Well, ok, granted, but I think my point still stands ;).



Is the key word there, I think. Wouldn't a 'free action Phasing/teleport' involve some kind of move independent of the Hypersonic Speed action, regardless of whether or not it was before, after or during?

I.e. If there was a figure who had that hypothetical SP, wouldn't it be an effective double move hypersonic speed? Wherein a part of the movement aspect would be phasing, and the other half regular movement?

But that's just it; it is NOT independent of HSS. Again:

HYPOTHETICAL POWER X SUPER-SMASH FUN TIME: Flash can use HSS. When Flash uses HSS he may also use Phasing/Teleport as a free action.

If HSS is not used, the Phasing/Teleport never activates. And it only activates during the HSS, not before and not after, so no "extra" movement would be granted.



Geez... all of this over a silly example :cheeky:

[Harpua]

But that's just it; it is NOT independent of HSS. Again:

HYPOTHETICAL POWER X SUPER-SMASH FUN TIME: Flash can use HSS. When Flash uses HSS he may also use Phasing/Teleport as a free action.

If HSS is not used, the Phasing/Teleport never activates. And it only activates during the HSS, not before and not after, so no "extra" movement would be granted.



Geez... all of this over a silly example :cheeky:

I'm actually with VagrantKing on this one. I don't see that wording as allowing them to work together. At best, if I saw that power, I would rule it to mean that he could use HSS normally, then use P/T as a separate free action. That wording really doesn't do anything to combine the two effects.

[normalview]

Whatever...

As I said before, it was a silly example. Pick it a part all you like... I'll join back in when there is a real question ;)

[Quebbster]

I'm actually with VagrantKing on this one. I don't see that wording as allowing them to work together. At best, if I saw that power, I would rule it to mean that he could use HSS normally, then use P/T as a separate free action. That wording really doesn't do anything to combine the two effects.
You know, that sounds familiar...

[Harpua]

You know, that sounds familiar...

Oh, I know.

[TheVagrantKing]

But that's just it; it is NOT independent of HSS. Again:

HYPOTHETICAL POWER X SUPER-SMASH FUN TIME: Flash can use HSS. When Flash uses HSS he may also use Phasing/Teleport as a free action.

If HSS is not used, the Phasing/Teleport never activates. And it only activates during the HSS, not before and not after, so no "extra" movement would be granted.



Geez... all of this over a silly example :cheeky:

haha, honestly I'm just curious. In all honesty, it's kinda interesting.

I guess my confusion is 'What would a free action phasing power entail?'.

Because if I saw a power that said:

"Give this character a free action and move it up to its speed value. It automatically breaks away and ignores the effects of characters, hindering terrain, elevated terrain, and blocking terrain on movement (but it can’t end its movement on blocking terrain.)"

I would figure I could take a move action, then as a free action, use Phasing/Teleport which is a 'move' in and of itself, just like it could if he had Outwit/Perplex.

That seems fairly straight forward to me, and I don't really understand why it could be interpreted as differently.

So, logically, would the Flash's hypothetical power read:

"Give this character a power action. It automatically breaks away and can move through squares adjacent to opposing characters. During its move, this character can use Phasing/Teleport as a free action, and then as a free action make one close combat or ranged combat attack with its range value halved for the attack.This character must be in a square where it could legally end its move in order to make the attack. This character can continue to use the rest of its movement (if any) after making the attack."

Now, apologies as I may have butchered the wording there, but I understand that there is no 'before/after' it's all 'during', but like the CCattack or the RCattack, they can occur at any time during the move, just like the hypothetical Phasing/Teleport could.

So, if hypothetical A is true, I guess I don't see why hypothetical B wouldn't be true...

you see? :noid:

[TheVagrantKing]

Nvm! Also, found an awesome new sig line...

[TheVagrantKing]

Whatever...

As I said before, it was a silly example. Pick it a part all you like... I'll join back in when there is a real question ;)

Hey, this is how I make learnz :grin:

[Heroclixfun]

How do I join the league

[Harpua]

How do I join the league

What League? The Justice League?

First, get struck by lightning as you are getting bitten by a radioactive wombat in an old Indian burial ground at midnight during a full moon...

:grin:

[Phoenix_Icewing]

im not sure what i've missed, but this entire page is just epicly hilarious so far.

And, easier wording- This character can use HSS. When it does, in addition to the effects of HSS, it ignores the effects of terrain and characters on movement.

HSS takes care of the rest you would get, anyways =^^=

[commandercool]

What League? The Justice League?

First, get struck by lightning as you are getting bitten by a radioactive wombat in an old Indian burial ground at midnight during a full moon...

:grin:

That happened to me last year. Now I'm Lightning-Radiation-Wombat-Moon-Midnight-Indian Curse Man! But don't tell anyone, okay? Lightning-Radiation-Wombat-Moon-Midnight Indian Curse Man has a lot of enemies. At least four.