View Full Version : H-SHW Comic Book TOC: COUNT NEFARIA vs. MANCHESTER BLACK
Hi all.
Its been a while since Ive done a comics related TOC, so I thought Id make use of the Power Scale Lists that we ALL had a hand in making, and set something up for us all to debate and participate in.
Pretty simple idea, 2 combatants engage one another on a completely neutral, planet-side, battlefield (ala Battleworld from Secret Wars) to Clash against one another, each winner (decided by your votes) moving on to the next Round, which finally a Grand Champion is crowned.
I give you this first of many matches to come:
COUNT NEFARIA (Ionic Form) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Nefaria)
vs.
MANCHESTER BLACK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Black)
So, lets hear from you all on which of these two you think would win, and is deserving to move one step closer to our Final Match of the H-SHW Level TOC!!
Results
Sinestro vs. Thor: Thor (10 - 1)
Beta Ray Bill vs. Wonder Woman: Beta Ray Bill (7 - 2)
Kurse (2X Thor) vs. Legion: Legion (5 - 4)
Allen The Alien (Original Form) vs. Eradicator: Eradicator (6 - 1)
Black Adam vs. Green Lantern (Alan Scott): Black Adam (10 - 0)
Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) vs. Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner): Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) (8 - 7)
Gladiator vs. Morg: Morg (4 - 1)
Drax (Power Gem) vs. Orion: Drax (Power Gem) (4 - 2)
Hulk (World War Hulk) vs. Quasar: Hulk (World War Hulk) (6 - 3)
Sentry vs. Zoom: Sentry (8 - 3)
Mon'el vs. Mongul: Mongul (4 - 3)
Mr. Majestic vs. Captain Marvel (Freddy Freeman): Mr. Majestic (5 - 1)
Circe vs. Green Lantern (Hal Jordan): Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)(5 - 5) - Winner Randomly Chosen
Adam Warlock (Post Annihilation) vs. Obsidian: Adam Warlock (Post Annihilation) (6 - 0)
Maelstrom vs. Superman: Maelstrom (7 - 4)
Silver Surfer (Pre Annihilation) vs. Theo Diggers: Silver Surfer (Pre Annihilation) (6 - 1)
Count Nefaria vs. Manchester Black: ??????
Maniac_nmt
03/04/2010, 10:07
I'm curious, are we using the Nefaria that is essentially living Ionic Energy in the way Wonderman is? If so it would mean Black couldn't stop his heart or put the bubble in his brain, and I'll definitely vote for Count Nefaria.
PaxZRake
03/04/2010, 10:18
I'm not really sure what Manchester Black would be able to do to Nefaria.
Well, if the Ionic version is still a H-SHW and not a S-SHW, then yes we can use that version. In either case, while Black CAN do that stroke trick, I dont believe he will right off the bat, whereas Nefaria being a villain (unlike the normally passive Superman) wont hesistate to clock Black out good (and I dont believe Black has any super toughness, yes?, so one hit is all Nefaria would need).
lensnart
03/04/2010, 11:20
Why don't you think Black would go for the kill right off the bat? He is very. very intelligent, he would know he was in a fight he would know it was against a guy that is physically stronger than him and that he has no reason to mess about with. he would absolutely go for the kill right off the bat. That's like saying Nefaria would try to punch him hard right off the bat, precise mental attacks are what Manchester Black does, he isn't going to stand around trying to second hand smoke him to death.
Further more there is nothing Nefaria would be able to do to stop him. Nefaria is fast but not faster than though and without any mental shields he would be on his knees before he had the chance to punch.
The guy is a more precise non-phoenix-power Jean Grey level telekinetic and close to a Cassandra Nova level telepath, he can pinpoint arteries and create simulated alternate realities without putting out his cigarette. THat said he is still beatable against the right opponent but an out and out bruiser is sorely miss matched against him.
Assuming that they don't just willingly not use their powers for no good reason, which seems like a safe assumption, Manchester Black has a very good matchup this time.
Manchester Black wins this 98 per cent of the time, and the other 2 per cent he only loses to see what all the fuss is about.
Why wouldnt he try Telepathy or TK first, why would he go right for the stroke bit (which wont work if this is ionic N anyway) against someone he doesnt even know. Is that his normal form of attack, causing strokes, or does he use normal TP or TK attacks first? (I got the impression the stroke thing was a one time thing, and probably just to show Superman he could affect him)
TK shields wont stop Nefaria, though TP might well do so, as he was never very strong willed (more of a bully really).
Maniac_nmt
03/04/2010, 12:44
Why don't you think Black would go for the kill right off the bat? He is very. very intelligent, he would know he was in a fight he would know it was against a guy that is physically stronger than him and that he has no reason to mess about with. he would absolutely go for the kill right off the bat. That's like saying Nefaria would try to punch him hard right off the bat, precise mental attacks are what Manchester Black does, he isn't going to stand around trying to second hand smoke him to death.
Further more there is nothing Nefaria would be able to do to stop him. Nefaria is fast but not faster than though and without any mental shields he would be on his knees before he had the chance to punch.
The guy is a more precise non-phoenix-power Jean Grey level telekinetic and close to a Cassandra Nova level telepath, he can pinpoint arteries and create simulated alternate realities without putting out his cigarette. THat said he is still beatable against the right opponent but an out and out bruiser is sorely miss matched against him.
Assuming that they don't just willingly not use their powers for no good reason, which seems like a safe assumption, Manchester Black has a very good matchup this time.
Manchester Black wins this 98 per cent of the time, and the other 2 per cent he only loses to see what all the fuss is about.
If it's the Ionic Nefaria, he has no nerves, no veins, no arteries, no organs to stop. Black will get hopelessly annihilated by Nefaria in that case.
Which Nefaria is here would depend on what version we feel in still in the H-SHWs. Would Ionic Nefaria be more a S-SHW, if so than not ionic, but if hes still a H-SHW than he can be here.
PaxZRake
03/04/2010, 13:57
I don't think there's much in the way of power increase between the two forms.
I could be wrong about that though.
Maniac_nmt
03/04/2010, 14:26
Which Nefaria is here would depend on what version we feel in still in the H-SHWs. Would Ionic Nefaria be more a S-SHW, if so than not ionic, but if hes still a H-SHW than he can be here.
I'm not aware of any power increase per say, save that he could fly in Ionic form which he can't in non ionic form.
The pluses of the Ionic form were that it gave him flight and control over other ionic beings. That and he was completely made out of energy. I don't remember any power scale increase outside of those, though.
Well yes, true, but as mentioned his ionic form could fly (his normal one only jump) plus being ionic means he is immune to certain forms of attack (poison, nerve strikes, etc.), those are pluses in and of themselves. Being that his original form was capable of catching Thors hammer when thrown (not to mention at full strength having it bounce off his chest), he may already be at the high end of the H-SHWs, and those ionic bonuses could pop him into the S-SHWs.
Even if he's Ionic, why wouldn't telepathy work? Manchester Black can get inside his head and make him see/do all kinds of things.
Jawapimp
03/04/2010, 16:53
Even if he's Ionic, why wouldn't telepathy work? Manchester Black can get inside his head and make him see/do all kinds of things.
He doesn't have a brain, or really a 'head' for Black to get into. I would see trying to get inside a ionic being's head as a bad move.
Nefaria is a beast in any form, I feel like he could get in and smack Black pretty quickly, and it's only going to take 1. Plus he has 100x the energy beams of living laser. He's bad-a
Nefaria to advance.
He has a mind, even if it's ionic, and while the stroke thing won't work on an ionic brain, simple telepathy will work just fine.
I don't see why Nefaria would be immune to his telepathy unless otherwise shown, so for the moment I'm voting Manchester Black in a pretty solid win. He's a seriously powerful TP.
Personally, I dont believe telepaths can affect inorganic minds (ionic, robotic, etc.) Alien minds sure, but IMHO, not inorganic. So if the general concensus is that Ionic Nefaria is still a H-SHW and not a S-SHW (which can still be up for discussion), Id give it to him pretty handily here. If its his human form, Id say Black could affect and control him mentally.
I don't think his mind being ionic would affect whether telepathy works much at all, it's still basically a human mind.
Gargantua
03/04/2010, 20:15
I would definitely say that putting Nefaria in his ionic form wouldn't tip him over the scales into S-SHW. That said, Black's not especially moral. I do see him as going for the kill here, and that may will be his downfall. He may try to go for a stroke, only to find that it wouldn't work on Nefaria. And with Nefaria's speed he wouldn't get a second attack. I don't think he could TK anything at Nefaria that would stop him. A straight mental assault might be the one thing that'd work, and I don't know that he'd go for that in the first place a majority of the time. It's all speculation and what if, of course. This isn't a match that is going to be completely dominated by one combatant over the other, but I do think that the majority of the wins will got to Nefaria. Though it may be a fairly slim majority.
He uses telepathy as often as he does TK. Even if he goes for TK first, he should last long enough to have a chance at telepathy too.
Jawapimp
03/04/2010, 22:10
Without any kind of durability though, Black is really handicapped. He has no idea how strong Nefaria is, well maybe, but its doubtful he knows much about him. Therefore he's not going to know how much power to use to take him down, he could underestimate it. CN on the otherhand is one of the more ruthless villains around. He's going to run in fast and HARD.
Nefaria can blast him with a Living Laser x100 beam from pretty far away, with speed 100 times faster than Whirlwind. More often then not I feel like Black is going to lose. He needs to react as quickly and effectively as possible. He literally needs to hit a home run every time. I think he can about 30% of the time, but not over 50%
Btw, I do believe Manchester has controlled Chemo.
*Chemo*.
Weird brains aren't that much of a problem.
Without any kind of durability though, Black is really handicapped.
He can use his TK for defense too.
Magoogles
03/04/2010, 23:36
Thats a good point... Tk barriers have been pretty effective in comics before.
If this is ionic Nefaria (and I guess Ill make it so), Ill support him to beat Black here.
COUNT NEFARIA (Ionic Form) - 4 votes
MANCHESTER BLACK - 2 votes
Maniac_nmt
03/05/2010, 08:21
That said, Black's not especially moral. I do see him as going for the kill here, and that may will be his downfall. He may try to go for a stroke, only to find that it wouldn't work on Nefaria. And with Nefaria's speed he wouldn't get a second attack. .
This is actually why I'm voting for Nefaria. Black is likely to try something like a brain enurism or nerve pinching and it won't work. After that it will be to late as Nefaria will be in his face and pummeling him.
This is actually why I'm voting for Nefaria. Black is likely to try something like a brain enurism or nerve pinching and it won't work. After that it will be to late as Nefaria will be in his face and pummeling him.
It's not like he wouldn't have TK defense up anyway.
And since they start at quite a distance, wouldn't he do TP first? It's not like in the comics he always lept to that, so why is everyone assuming it'll be his first course?
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