AA Robin Tear Gas Clarification

[kamuikenpachi]

Me and my friends always played him not needing line of sight(hitting someone around a wall). I was playing a guy who said that I needed line of sight to make the attack. I know he ignores stealth for Tear Gas.. but can he hit people around walls that he would not be normally able to shoot?

[normalview]

Please quote the power (or whatever). That always helps :)

TEAR GAS GRENADE: Robin can use Smoke Cloud. When Robin uses Smoke Cloud, after he places all hindering terrain markers he can immediately use Incapacitate as a free action but can attack only a single opposing character occupying a square containing a hindering terrain marker he placed that turn; ignore the effects of hindering terrain on the attack.

All it says is that he can use Incap as a free action against a "gassed" character and that hindering terrain is ignored... and that is it. Nothing indicates that he does not need to draw LOF to attack with Incap at range, so he does need to draw LOF and thus walls and such will block said LOF.

[DemonRS]

*edit* nevermind, my understanding of the power is wrong I guess. :)

[normalview]

Well.. To answer that we really kinda need to look at smoke cloud:



All that requires is one square of smoke cloud having line of site.. So based on robins power only 1 of the markers must have line of site but any one of them can use the incapacitate. So if the opponent is around the corner as long as you can place the first marker you're good to go without line of site.

For Smoke Cloud, sure... but nothing says LOF (not LOS ;)) is waived for Incap.

[DemonRS]

For Smoke Cloud, sure... but nothing says LOF (not LOS ;)) is waived for Incap.

Yeah after closer look at robin's sp, I realized I didn't notice the ignore hindering terrain thing.

But what is still cool, is we could throw some tear gas on a hidden batman (who we can't see) and incapacitate him as we ignore the hindering terrain he's sitting in as well as the smoke we created..

[kamuikenpachi]

See this differing view is exactly what happened. I believe he doesnt need line of sight(around a corner) to make the attack. Just says to make an attack against any one character in the smoke cloud. So the real question is Robin making the attack from his character or the Smoke Cloud itself is making the attack.

[DemonRS]

See this differing view is exactly what happened. I believe he doesnt need line of sight(around a corner) to make the attack. Just says to make an attack against any one character in the smoke cloud. So the real question is Robin making the attack from his character or the Smoke Cloud itself is making the attack.

If that were true the limitation of:
ignore the effects of hindering terrain on the attack

Would not have to have been added to the sp..

And robin is the one making the attack is its a special power that grants him the ability to make the attack..
What's the smoke cloud's AV?

[normalview]

But what is still cool, is we could throw some tear gas on a hidden batman (who we can't see) and incapacitate him as we ignore the hindering terrain he's sitting in as well as the smoke we created..

Oh yeah, it is a very useful power. In fact, if you didn't need to draw LOF it would be a little too good.

[normalview]

See this differing view is exactly what happened. I believe he doesnt need line of sight(around a corner) to make the attack. Just says to make an attack against any one character in the smoke cloud. So the real question is Robin making the attack from his character or the Smoke Cloud itself is making the attack.

When an SP says that a character can use X power, X power will follow all the normal rules for that power except for what is specifically spelled on in the SP description.

Since TEAR GAS GRENADE does not say that LOF is not needed for ranged Incap, LOF IS needed.

[kamuikenpachi]

ug its going to be a hard time trying to explain to my friends that we were wrong. they'll be blah blah blah. thx for your guys help.

Another quick question. Does the character robin is attacking have to be within Robin's range(6)?

[DemonRS]

*edit Guess I'm wrong again??

Actually yeah I see it now.. Because it's allowing Robin to use incapacitate (all the limitations of that) for free.. So he's limited to using incap as a close or ranged combat action, and therefore must follow those rules.

[normalview]

ug its going to be a hard time trying to explain to my friends that we were wrong. they'll be blah blah blah. thx for your guys help.

Another quick question. Does the character robin is attacking have to be within Robin's range(6)?

Yes.

When an SP says that a character can use X power, X power will follow all the normal rules for that power except for what is specifically spelled on in the SP description.

Since TEAR GAS GRENADE does not say that LOF is not needed for ranged Incap, LOF IS needed.


Nothing in TEAR GAS GRENADE says that Robin's range is any different when using Incap.

For what it is worth, though, that also be within the range of the Smoke Cloud since all the squares must be placed within his range, too.

[kamuikenpachi]

To further clarify Smoke cloud only requires LOS to one of the hindering terrain markers. So he can put the Smoke cloud around the corner as long as its within his range but he still has to have LOS to the target to use the Incap. correct?

[normalview]

To further clarify Smoke cloud only requires LOS to one of the hindering terrain markers. So he can put the Smoke cloud around the corner as long as its within his range but he still has to have LOS to the target to use the Incap. correct?

Line of Fire, but otherwise, yep ;)

[fox007]

and is the incap action count as a range or close combat action...ie does the respective figure(say crisis nightwing) get to use his combat reflexes or energy sheild deflection?

[kamuikenpachi]

thanks for all the help

[normalview]

and is the incap action count as a range or close combat action...ie does the respective figure(say crisis nightwing) get to use his combat reflexes or energy sheild deflection?

Like any use of Incap, that depends. Are you adjacent and in close combat? Then it is a close combat Incap. Are you attacking a character that is not adjacent? Then it is a ranged combat Incap.

[fox007]

Like any use of Incap, that depends. Are you adjacent and in close combat? Then it is a close combat Incap. Are you attacking a character that is not adjacent? Then it is a ranged combat Incap.

ok ty for clearin that up

[nbperp]

Lots of right answers on this thread, but I wanted to throw some other points out.

1 - If Robin is going to use Incap from range, then just like he needs a line of fire, he also must not be adjacent to an opposing character. For example:

. R 1 . .
. . x x .
. . . 2 .

In the above example, if Robin placed hindering terrain markers in the green squares, which included opposing characters 1 and 2, then he would not be able to incap figure 2.

2 - In answer to another question, yes, the character would need to be in Robin's range. Now normally this is not much of an issue since the Smoke Cloud terrain needs to all be in his range too. However, I can see a scenario where you had an effect like "All range values are halved for all ranged attacks" where Robin's range for Smoke Cloud would be greater than his range for an attack. So "yes" Robin needs range (and "yes" an adjacent friendly SHIELD team member can help increase it to make the range work out).