Tournament Gripe

[Moriarty]

So I played in my first proper tournament last night, and it was quite good fun; I came third out of 12 and picked up an LE Hydra Medic for my trouble. BUT what was infuriating is that 1,2,3 and 5 were all playing the same basic 200pt team: BCF w. Stealth (Elektra U & Sabretooth E/Wolvie U) + free move Taxis (Wasp U & Doombot V) . Not only that, but in each, it came down to the player who got the first turn. The only team that varied at all was a Firelord team, but it was only the player's 3rd game, and it was a woman, which was a novelty and we're not about to discourage ;-)

I suppose really it just bugs me immensely that one strategy can be so overwhelmingly powerful; I knew taxis were strong, but with all the moaning about Firelord I thought it might be interesting to try something different - looks like everyone else had the same thought. The only real solution I see is going back to big ranged death and blowing up hindering terrain left, right and centre.

Thoughts?

</rant>

Moriarty

Beer - now there's a temporary solution.

[the itsy bit]

so basically you're complaining aboot yourself right ?!

second Sabretooth and Wolverine are Arch enemies, even though the U wolverine doesn't have a blue base (or should be) !

[Moriarty]

Yes, I know I'm complaining about myself - it annoys me that 4 people can come up with the same basic team independently and completely dominate a tournament. I'm not saying that it's not a valid strategy, it's more that I get wary when any one deck design, I mean, team, dominates a game environment.

Moriarty

[Moriarty]

Oh, on subject of U Wolverine - he does have a blue base, and the other 3 were playing Sabretooth - getting him killed by Sabretooth in my second game is what cost me the tourney.

Moriarty

[warden]

Originally posted by Moriarty
The only real solution I see is going back to big ranged death and blowing up hindering terrain left, right and centre.

Sorry but you can't destroy hindering terrain that's printed on the map. And if you destroy an object, you create rubble. And you can't outwit Stealth either. These things ought to work, I agree, but you play by the FAQ, you're outta luck.

The only answers to Stealth are the Superman team or flying bricks (taxi+CCE). Try using Bane and Steel and call your team the Glasgow Kiss! (= a headbutt)

Andrew

[the itsy bit]

Originally posted by Moriarty
Oh, on subject of U Wolverine - he does have a blue base, and the other 3 were playing Sabretooth - getting him killed by Sabretooth in my second game is what cost me the tourney.

Moriarty

yes he has (I didn't want to look him up) !
It read like you where playing Sabretooth AND Wolverine.

[Moriarty]

Um, no, I was playing with Elektra+Wolvie, others were playing Elektra + Sabretooth - sorry if I was unclear.

I thought if you destroyed an object it's completely removed from the map, no rubble, nada?

Moriarty

[Moriarty]

Mea culpa - I've just checked the faq, and indeed, objects get reduced to hindering terrain. Blast (or rather, not) - suppose Superman Ally's the way to go, though that doesn't help much in a Marvel only.

[trutildeth]

Force-blast is quite efficient at knocking those pesky stealthers from their terrain and off of roofs and into walls. The best thing about it, is there is no roll need made.

[NateTG]

Observations from playing Heroclix:

Teams with taxis usually beat teams without taxis (there are some exceptions, but not many)

Then we have three tactical options:
Stealth (w/ BCF in marvel, Outwit/Incap/Leap Climb in DC)
Thumpers (High Damage & Damage Reduction)
Ranged Combat

In theory, Ranged Combat should beat Thumpers, Thumpers should beat BCF/Stealth, and BCF/Stealth should beat Ranged Combat.

In practice, the Thumpers(Bricks) get shafted:
1. They are the most Vulnerable to outwit.
Thumpers rely on damage reducing powers. Those are usually the easiest, and most usefull powers to outwit.
2. They're expensive.
Heavy damage reduction and Super Strength are both overpriced because of outwit (and incapacitate) and taxiing respectively.
3. Taxis make them into wannabee ranged combat fighters.
Since Taxis effectively allow figures to move into and out of combat at will, there is essentially no drawback for characters that are ranged combat oriented except for stealth.
4. BCF Does much more damage for the points.
Hmm, BCF effectively does 3.5 points of damage on average. I wonder what, for example, the V Vampire Lackey, if someone replaced the 0 damage with 3 and removed BCF.

At the other end, Ranged Combat is favored:
1. Taxiing makes it difficult to tie figures down in combat, so there are few drawbacks to relying on the ability to create ranged attack opportunities. Moreover, Taxiing also makes it nearly impossible for ranged combat figures to be run down.
2. Ranged Combat Expert is underpriced compared to straight damage. Since it is an attack power, it can be outwitted, but because of taxiing, you're likely only to be able to outwit it after the shot goes off.
3. The team abilies that are associated with ranged attacks (SHIELD and AIM) are significantly more viable than the team abilities associated with close combat (MoE).
4. Figures that are active in ranged combat can be healed while fighting. Unlike close combat fighters, ranged combattants can stay in position while being healed.

So, of course, competitive tournaments will be filled by teams filled with ranged combattants, and stealth/BCF.

There are, of course, effective close combat fighters, but very few of them feature heavy damage reduction, or super strength without charge. Flurriers like Logan and Spiral, even Whirlwind and Quicksilver, and light brawlers with toughness instead of invulnerability like Hercules or Bane are more effective as close combat damage sources.