View Full Version : How do you report a moderator?
Mongoose
04/01/2010, 01:49
I've been on these forums for years, and have never had a problem with a mod. That being said, I submitted multiple emails to a moderator, and have not heard a single response back. This is in regards to a bad trade, and I have submitted literally over 4 emails to this mod, and have not received an answer to date. Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but I think it's rather unprofessional to ignore someone.
spike1138
04/01/2010, 01:53
Have you made sure you're trying to contact the correct moderator(s)? For trades, PM either Quebbster and/or Phantalien. Just trying to help.
You also don't provide a lot of context. Is that 4 PMs over a few days time? Or were they all sent within a few hours of each other? The mods here are mostly all volunteers (Typhon is probably the only one not a volunteer since this is his sandbox) and it is spring break/Easter time/Passover time so folks may actually have some real life stuff going on.
zero_cochrane
04/01/2010, 07:37
I can see how that would be frustrating, but I'm not so sure that it's a Report-able offence.
MattMinus
04/01/2010, 07:57
I suggest you post something REALLY obscene to lure them out of hiding and then spring your trap.
Quebbster
04/01/2010, 08:04
Without knowing who the moderator is, it is hard to say what has happened. Some are more active than others...
But if it is a trade issue, the persons to contact are me, phantalien and KitsuShel.
Mongoose
04/03/2010, 15:18
Well I submitted multiple pm's to Phantalien. I'll even give you access to my outbox Quebbster. I'm pretty much aggrevated that I traded at E2 Supes to a well known dealer from here, and even have the confirmation sheet, which i'm totally willing to fax to you. The dealer has had no repercussions for taking the Supes, and not giving me anything in return for it (I was to get a KC Green Lantern).
The dealer's dispute is that he never received it, but the post office stated that the girl that signed off on it lives there, and that it was sent to the right address. She is also the postal manager of that same said dealer's branch.
Please PM me when you have a chance.
Well I submitted multiple pm's to Phantalien. I'll even give you access to my outbox Quebbster. I'm pretty much aggrevated that I traded at E2 Supes to a well known dealer from here, and even have the confirmation sheet, which i'm totally willing to fax to you. The dealer has had no repercussions for taking the Supes, and not giving me anything in return for it (I was to get a KC Green Lantern).
The dealer's dispute is that he never received it, but the post office stated that the girl that signed off on it lives there, and that it was sent to the right address. She is also the postal manager of that same said dealer's branch.
Please PM me when you have a chance.
There is absolutely nothing a moderator can do as this a case of mail fraud it SUCKS but ask yourself is it worth getting the police involved or the FBI (mail fraud is a federal crime) over a figure you can just buy off E-Bay
There is absolutely nothing a moderator can do as this a case of mail fraud it SUCKS but ask yourself is it worth getting the police involved or the FBI (mail fraud is a federal crime) over a figure you can just buy off E-Bay
The future next 10 people they swindle say: "yes"
Batmandu
04/04/2010, 05:28
Well I submitted multiple pm's to Phantalien.
Looking at his profile, you can see that he hasn't been online since 03/29/2010, this may well explain why he hasn't got back to you...
JackAssterson
04/04/2010, 13:04
The future next 10 people they swindle say: "yes"
Pretty much.
Phantalien is out of the country during the holidays. As Norm said, you don't really provide context regarding when the e-mails were sent. If they were all sent after he left the country (and went "off-line) then that would explain his non-response.
I would counsel patience if you want help.
Alternatively, you could PM a different MOD.
Another course of action is to keep after the guy who didn't send you your KC GL. If he is non-responsive. let him know you are aware of your legal rights, but be prepared to follow through. If he still doesn't respond, and you have the paper trail you claim, go after him! As others have said, mail fraud is a serious issue.
But again, regarding Phantalien, who is a volunteer and who I know is out of the country, I would "dial it down" unless he has ignored your PMs for a month or more. It's not like he's a civil servant and you pay his salary with your taxes.
Just sayin'.:grin:
whats interesting is you left negative feedback but Itrader still has them listed at 100%
KitsuShel
04/04/2010, 14:37
There is absolutely nothing a moderator can do as this a case of mail fraud it SUCKS but ask yourself is it worth getting the police involved or the FBI (mail fraud is a federal crime) over a figure you can just buy off E-Bay
As evidenced by our mass offense again Mr Steinmetz, aka Lojo and a host of other names, it's pretty much a moot point anyway.
People got PMs and statements and filed for mail fraud and tried to contact his local police and absolutely nothing came of it. It's like no one cares that these jerks are ripping people off of little plastic figures, no matter how much they cost.
It's very disheartening. It's very hard to get justice for people who are getting scammed. We mods can take no legal action. We can only cajole and harp on the person who is in the wrong. We can also ban said person, but that doesn't stop them from creating a new account on a different IP and starting it all up over again.
I personally have started to become jaded, which has severely dropped my interest in trading in general.
JackAssterson
04/04/2010, 14:41
As evidenced by our mass offense again Mr Steinmetz, aka Lojo and a host of other names, it's pretty much a moot point anyway.
People got PMs and statements and filed for mail fraud and tried to contact his local police and absolutely nothing came of it. It's like no one cares that these jerks are ripping people off of little plastic figures, no matter how much they cost.
It's very disheartening. It's very hard to get justice for people who are getting scammed. We mods can take no legal action. We can only cajole and harp on the person who is in the wrong. We can also ban said person, but that doesn't stop them from creating a new account on a different IP and starting it all up over again.
I personally have started to become jaded, which has severely dropped my interest in trading in general.
I know. :ermm:
To understand a serial scammer (not speaking about this thread, btw), you have to look at it like this: we're not people. We're screen names that will give gifts of money and valuable objects when lied to. When you get banned, make a new account and start over.
Without support from law enforcement, there is no incentive to stop. They don't give two cents about being berated or banned -- only real consequences, which we are not able to apply.
drfaust176
04/04/2010, 14:43
As evidenced by our mass offense again Mr Steinmetz, aka Lojo and a host of other names, it's pretty much a moot point anyway.
People got PMs and statements and filed for mail fraud and tried to contact his local police and absolutely nothing came of it. It's like no one cares that these jerks are ripping people off of little plastic figures, no matter how much they cost.
It's very disheartening. It's very hard to get justice for people who are getting scammed. We mods can take no legal action. We can only cajole and harp on the person who is in the wrong. We can also ban said person, but that doesn't stop them from creating a new account on a different IP and starting it all up over again.
I personally have started to become jaded, which has severely dropped my interest in trading in general.
See also: Popinjay.
As far as high-end trades like the one you mentioned go, I learned my lesson (tragically too late)- always make sure you go through a third-party. I don't know which ones, but some mods are willing to do this, and I know that hair10 does on occasion as well. You each ship to the third party, and once both items have arrived, they ship them both out. You'll obviously have to shell out extra money for the shipping, but considering it'd be for an E2 Supes, I'd be willing to pay.
Mongoose
04/11/2010, 02:55
As evidenced by our mass offense again Mr Steinmetz, aka Lojo and a host of other names, it's pretty much a moot point anyway.
People got PMs and statements and filed for mail fraud and tried to contact his local police and absolutely nothing came of it. It's like no one cares that these jerks are ripping people off of little plastic figures, no matter how much they cost.
It's very disheartening. It's very hard to get justice for people who are getting scammed. We mods can take no legal action. We can only cajole and harp on the person who is in the wrong. We can also ban said person, but that doesn't stop them from creating a new account on a different IP and starting it all up over again.
I personally have started to become jaded, which has severely dropped my interest in trading in general.
Yeah, I can definitely state that i'm not going to trade on hcrealms ever again. There went $80 down the tube. Pisses me off that some of the people think this guy didn't do anything wrong, particularly since i've received emails with others that have had problems with him too. If someone has soo much positive feedback, they can basically just kick back and screw one person out of an expensive item.
I'm using ebay when it comes to getting money, to buy something I would normally trade. Much safer, as you can dispute what you are sending to someone through paypal.
Karma's a ^&^ch!!!!
Karma0002
04/11/2010, 03:44
Karma's a ^&^ch!!!!
Hey don't talk about me like that!!! lmao Just kidding. Hey man I'm not involved but sorry to hear about that. It doesn't reflect on the majority of the Realms and the people in it. I had the handle Karma0001 before and would still if I used and remembered that email and could get in. But I had well over 100 good trades on here before I lost interest in clix for some sets and just recently got back in and now I'm starting a new record. I've traded with so many people and not just that being on the Realms talking to people before and now, I've not just made outstanding deals but I've before and now again am starting to make some real friendships with people I would not have otherwise known. If someone is a high profile trader here and then something happens, even to a few people, I'm not involved so I'm not going to put point any fingers any which way but it's unfortunate and that really stinks and I'd be ticked off too. But I can honestly say as a long time former and once again member that it does not in any way reflect on the greater majority of traders and people here in the Realms by any stretch of the imagination. I've made mistakes but any time I do I try to do everything in my power to fix them and consequently have NEVER before or in this current time had a bad trade and I don't ever intend to on my end of a deal. The Realms is a good place, a heck of a lot better than EvilBay. lol Just my opinion.
Tim Drake
04/11/2010, 03:48
Wow. I've never liked dealing with this particular trader (the accused), because of his condescending attitude (among other reasons), but this comes as something of a shock. Wow.
Karma0002
04/11/2010, 04:07
Without support from law enforcement, there is no incentive to stop. They don't give two cents about being berated or banned -- only real consequences, which we are not able to apply.
Well that may not be true with ALL of us. You never know, there may be the occasional Realmer with say a collection of swords and other assorted toys and the means to travel great distances if a screw job were big enough. I'm not going to say such a person exists but you never know. And I'm not advocating people do vigilante justice over lost figs but someday one of these people just may cross certain lines they really don't want to know the consequences of...lol
I could see it now...knock knock knock. Yes? Hi I'm so and so remember me? You stole clix and money from me but you gave me your address and now look...I just rolled a critical hit using BCF. lmao So long scammer!!!
afinley2429
04/11/2010, 04:10
for ebay use heroes-zeros and clixgathering those are who i usually buy from as well as woolverine
Alright, let's bare this out. It was the accuser that broke off contact with me. I kept sending PMs and E-mails but did not get a reply so I eventually stopped sending anymore. I went down my street knocking on addresses with similar number to mine to try and find the package, but was not able to find it. He said that my PO told him this Britney Torres that signed for the package lives with me, but I can guarantee you no such person lives here. I live by myself. I went to my PO to talk to them how they determine this Britney Torres lives with me. When I got there, the postmaster investigator told me that they knew the package did not get to my address and this Britney Torres does not live with me. I ask her how they determined that and she said she asked the regular carrier on my route about who lives at my address and if they ever deliver mail to a Britney Torres here. The investigator also said that my regular carrier was off that day and that another carrier not familiar with my neighborhood was delivering mail on my route. Base on his scanner and time of the scan she determined that the package is somewhere in the 400 block of my street. I live on 700 block. Additionally, I did receive 2 packages the same day his package was suppose to be delivered and both have DC on it. Here are the DCs
0309 1830 0000 2596 7010
0309 3220 0000 6053 1446
The DC for the accuser's package is
7008 2810 0001 6364 9584
Noticed the time difference between his package and my other 2 packages. His package was delivered at about 1:30 pm while the other 2 packages that the carrier handed to me was delivered at 3:53 pm. I don't know about the rest of you , but I don't get mail more than once a day.
The last PM I sent to him was to have him please call my PO again and ask what they say now about his missing package because they may not have all the facts when he first called and they told him this Britney Torres lives with me. I did not get a reply and it has been over a week. Now I found this post and see that I must offer up my side of the story.
Silver Lantern
04/11/2010, 14:51
Mongoose I know you're upset, I would be too if I lost an $80 chase. However, if you want people to help you, you really need to remain calm and cooperative and stop pointing fingers to moderators and others who have absolutely no power over anything here. The truth is that the person who can probably help you most here is Nogocat, so I would start with trying to get him on your side. He said he asked people in his block about the box, but that the PO thought it may be at the 400 block. Did you try asking there Nogocat?
Was insurance used? Did either of you consider this? A lot of heartache that could have been saved for a couple of bucks...
Was Return receipt (since someone mentioned signing for it)?
Do you have a copy of that green card?
Pisses me off that some of the people think this guy didn't do anything wrong, particularly since i've received emails with others that have had problems with him too.
Who said what? This is just unfounded and unproven allegations. It may be people who are upset at Nogocat for any number of reasons or any other number of things.
Did you speak to anyone who lost a good amount of value on a trade with him too, where he claimed he "never got it?"
If there are others, they really should come forward, so people are aware of what is going on here, and be weary of him if he is shady (not saying that he is, but IF he is, that's why people need to speak up, otherwise it's just unproven hearsay).
Silver Lantern
04/11/2010, 14:55
I can tell you that the fact that he has other packages delivered at 3:53 and your confirmation says delivered at 1:36, all on the same date, is pretty good evidence that he did not receive your package on that date, but that in fact it was delivered to someone else 2 hours earlier.
The good thing is that you have someone's name that you can try to track down. Have you done any kind of research into this Britney Torres in the same city? It's relatively easy if you have access to the right resources.
Nogo, have you spoken to your usual letter carrier?
Mongoose
04/11/2010, 15:48
Mongoose I know you're upset, I would be too if I lost an $80 chase. However, if you want people to help you, you really need to remain calm and cooperative and stop pointing fingers to moderators and others who have absolutely no power over anything here. The truth is that the person who can probably help you most here is Nogocat, so I would start with trying to get him on your side. He said he asked people in his block about the box, but that the PO thought it may be at the 400 block. Did you try asking there Nogocat?
Was insurance used? Did either of you consider this? A lot of heartache that could have been saved for a couple of bucks...
Was Return receipt (since someone mentioned signing for it)?
Do you have a copy of that green card?
Who said what? This is just unfounded and unproven allegations. It may be people who are upset at Nogocat for any number of reasons or any other number of things.
Did you speak to anyone who lost a good amount of value on a trade with him too, where he claimed he "never got it?"
If there are others, they really should come forward, so people are aware of what is going on here, and be weary of him if he is shady (not saying that he is, but IF he is, that's why people need to speak up, otherwise it's just unproven hearsay).
I'm not gonna state who pm'ed me, as they asked to not be announced.
Secondly NoGoCat your full of %^$^!!!!!! I did alot more investigative work then you did, and anyone can call Ms. Jacobs, whom is the postal manager at Nogocat's postal district. Her number is (713) 522-7389. Ask her, I spoke with her in person. I find it awfully odd that the next day on evil bay that the same said fig was sold (Literally the day after the delivery confirmation sheet was signed), though now I can't find the link :( It was sold by an ebay member named anna, who resides in Houston, Texas.
Manchine
04/11/2010, 16:09
When I have traded on HCR I have only traded to people I knew on HCR (IE posted a lot)
May I ask when was the last time you talk to Ms Jacob???? Would it be before you left me negative feedback? Did you call again when I ask you to after you left me the feedback?
As to the e-bay listing, can someone do a search on completed listing for Heroclix superman and find if there was this anna seller completed an auction in and around March 18th? or if there was a E2 sold by anyone in the Houston Area around that time. If there is, I sure can't find it. When I do a seller search for this anna, she has no rating at all and has been a member since 1997. I must be a criminal mastermind to makeup an account 13 years ahead to scam someone out of less than $100
Silver Lantern: As to your question, about going to the 400 block to check, I stopped knocking on doors after he left me negative feedback. So no I did not go to the 400 block to check. I had asked the Mods to call the PO number Mongoose listed above and see about the package so I can clear my name. They have not done so as of yet that I know of.
Mongoose
04/11/2010, 20:43
Ahh, found the link. This was put up shortly after I had gotten the delivery confirmation.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220575079178
P0W3R_C0SM1C_79
04/11/2010, 20:51
Was your card in the sleeve just like the description?
Ahh, found the link. This was put up shortly after I had gotten the delivery confirmation.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220575079178
you should contact one or more of the previous buyers to see if they will give you the name and address of the seller. Houston TX is a pretty big place, I am sure there is more then a few Heroclix chase figs there.
No matter what I was getting, if I was sending an E-2 Superman, the other person would be sending first.
Mongoose
04/11/2010, 21:44
No matter what I was getting, if I was sending an E-2 Superman, the other person would be sending first.
Well that's the problem with HCRealms, you have to send first if you have less than 10 trader rating. Basically I just gave a fig away for free.
falldowndrunk
04/11/2010, 22:20
I started coming here sometime around late 2008. Actually really enjoyed reading all the posts, building my teams way easier, etc.
I wanted to try everything Realms had to offer, and so made a trade thread.
First few trades were awesome, everything went really well. My feedback was still way low, however, and was always required to send first.
Got ripped off, pretty badly, before my tenth trade. Haven't made a trade since.
Something tells me my story, and the OP's story (both sides, Op and accused) are all too common. Most we can do is buck up, let it go, and write a list of names while putting on lipstick, Billy Madison style!
you should contact one or more of the previous buyers to see if they will give you the name and address of the seller. Houston TX is a pretty big place, I am sure there is more then a few Heroclix chase figs there.
CSI, why don't you do me a favor and contact the buyers and see if you can get an address for the seller and post it on here? If not the address how about just the name on the paypal account?
3Gsniper
04/11/2010, 23:51
OP: I understand why you are frustrated. You lost out on a chase Supes (70-ish bucks) and a KC Green Lantern (40-ish). Knowing you are shipping a chase fig you should have kicked down for insurance, sorry a little common sense goes a long way sometimes. Looking at iTrader you waited four days to leave negative feedback. Now if you knew there was a discrepancy at the receiving end, I don't think four days is long enough for any type of informed decision. I have been on the receiving end of investigations and I have been the investigator for a Government entity, nothing gets found out that is concrete in four days. NOTHING. Now that it has been a while if you used the right terminology (i.e. Mail Fraud) the PO should have either finished, or still be investigating and can and should be willing to give you both an update. Mail fraud is serious and the PO doesn't take it lightly at all. Anyway that is my Two Cent addition.
Now personally NoGoCat and I had a Huge (60+ Figs each way) trade around the same time as yours, and it went fine.
Silver Lantern
04/12/2010, 00:00
Silver Lantern: As to your question, about going to the 400 block to check, I stopped knocking on doors after he left me negative feedback. So no I did not go to the 400 block to check. I had asked the Mods to call the PO number Mongoose listed above and see about the package so I can clear my name. They have not done so as of yet that I know of.
I figured as much... That's why I told the guy to calm down and try to get you on his side.
However, try to see it from his point of view too. I agree that the different mailing times on the confirmation site are good in your favor, but you can certainly give him some leeway for being upset over this.
I don't see where he gets his obsession that you received the figure just because your address is on the return receipt card, that doesn't mean that the postman didn't deliver it to the wrong address. Was it sent next day or some kind of special air mail that it would have been delivered before a certain time? Otherwise, I don't see why it would have been delivered at different times than your other mail, which tends to prove that it went to another address.
Still Nogocat, don't get all defensive because he left you negative feedback. Try to rise above that like a longstanding member of this trading community. He is understandably upset, if you ignore that and try to help him, you will only come out smelling like a rose, and look like the better man in the end, IMHO.
TheFreak
04/12/2010, 00:13
whats interesting is you left negative feedback but Itrader still has them listed at 100%
I've left negative feedback a couple times, but somehow it always seems to disappear...someone whines and cries to someone and then it's gone...
afinley2429
04/12/2010, 00:17
Ahh, found the link. This was put up shortly after I had gotten the delivery confirmation.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220575079178
that is who i got my sinestro corps batman from and it came safely so i have the address pm me if you want her actual address
that is who i got my sinestro corps batman from and it came safely so i have the address pm me if you want her actual address
Please post the name and the street on here if you don't mind.
Ironman1994
04/12/2010, 00:44
Start with a piece of college-ruled, lined notebook paper. Make sure to also have a #2 Pencil (Mechanical Pencils prohibited, but if you feel that you won't make any mistakes, blue ink Ball-Point pens are perfectly acceptable #2 pencil substitutes.) Now, start to draw a rough sketch of the moderators avatar about half an inch from the top of the paper, also keeping it no more than .5 inches away from the left side but no less than .25 inches away from it.) Try to make sure that the proportions for this avatar are correct. Now, if the mods avatar is animated, you are going to need to attach a piece of paper for every frame of the avatar image. (To find the amount of frames in an animated avatar image in standard Windows browsers, simply right-click the image, click properties and look for the number of frames in the properties window. Now that you have the avatar sketched on your page(s), you are going to want to type the content of the post made by the moderator and make sure that you write it in such a way that it is practically identical to the text in his/her post. (Standard post font is Verdana) You may need colored pencils to accurately portray the colored fonts (if any) in this moderators post. For those who don't know how to make a spoiler, simply cautiously glue a small flap of paper so that you can simply lift it to reveal the text underneath. Repeat this process on each piece of paper attached to the first. Now, on a seperate piece of paper, write down the URL of the mod's post, the mod's forum profile, and if available, his or her facebook profile and or phone number/cell number/address/name of puppy. Now, to make sure that you have read the guidelines for reporting a mod, include the passcode. The passcode isn't actually a word. The only way to prove that you have read these guidelines is to hand copy every single word from a Brief history of time and space. Now, all you have to do is hand deliver it to typhon. Good luck.
I figured as much... That's why I told the guy to calm down and try to get you on his side.
However, try to see it from his point of view too. I agree that the different mailing times on the confirmation site are good in your favor, but you can certainly give him some leeway for being upset over this.
I don't see where he gets his obsession that you received the figure just because your address is on the return receipt card, that doesn't mean that the postman didn't deliver it to the wrong address. Was it sent next day or some kind of special air mail that it would have been delivered before a certain time? Otherwise, I don't see why it would have been delivered at different times than your other mail, which tends to prove that it went to another address.
Still Nogocat, don't get all defensive because he left you negative feedback. Try to rise above that like a longstanding member of this trading community. He is understandably upset, if you ignore that and try to help him, you will only come out smelling like a rose, and look like the better man in the end, IMHO.
The last time I talked to the investigator she said they were going to try to retrieve the package and this is right after he left me feedback. Another reason why I didn't go knocking on the doors on the 400 block thinking that the PO was taking care of it.
Woobacca
04/12/2010, 02:09
I've done a couple deals with NoGoCat, and he is no way a scammer. Hell a while back when I was selling Heroclix to raise money to pay for my dog to have surgery so I wouldn't have to put her down, he donated $100.00 to the cause without buying any clix from me (but sadly I had to put her down, and he got his money back from me). NoGoCat is one of the best people to deal with here on the realms. Mongoose I think you need to take 2 steps back, take a deep breath and relax, if he was a scammer he wouldn't be on here posting evidence that he never received the package, and that he is trying to do all he can to find out what happened, now tell me what kind of scammer would take the time and make the effort to go door to door looking for a package? All the while keeping people updated on this thread with what was happening.
Webslinger121
04/12/2010, 03:43
I had a high end trade with him before and it went smooth as can be. Plus I don't see the 3rd highest trader being a scammer. He has also had some recent pos refs from people. And we had worked out a deal a like 2 days ago and he even had the courtesy and told me about this thread. If he was a scammer he would of just hid this from me in hopes of stealing my fig. Hopefully this all gets sorted out.
Dr. Morbius
04/12/2010, 04:30
Well, what makes me wonder is:
Had the two agreed to simulsend (obviously Mongoose had to send first here) would people expect him to send the KC Lantern back, because the PO made a mistake???
I mean he DID send the figure which he can prove.
NoGoCat, however, refuses to send his part of the deal because he never got the package (which is NOT Mongoose's fault).
In a trade I would say that both people have an obligation: that's to send their parts of the deal. One guy did (with proof) the other didn't (because a third party did wrong - which is NOT Mongoose's fault).
So as hard as it sounds. NoGoCat HAS to send his end. Else he is a BAD trader in my eyes. 100%!!!
Well that's the problem with HCRealms, you have to send first if you have less than 10 trader rating. Basically I just gave a fig away for free.
I've never agreed to send first when I was sending very valuable figures, with the exception of a trade with Hair10, and that was only because if he screwed me, the repurcussions to his good name would be worse than it would be for mine. Trader rating be damned. If they can't agree to at least simul-send (in a trade involving figures of actual risk), then I'm sure someone else will offer me the trade and will agree to my terms.
An E-2 Superman is one of those figures.
In any event, I'm sorry this happened to you. Certainly with that figure. If you get it back I have a KC GL for trade. :)
I mean he DID send the figure which he can prove.
I grant you that he did send a package to my zip code but what is in it and where it went I do not know. DO YOU?
NoGoCat, however, refuses to send his part of the deal because he never got the package (which is NOT Mongoose's fault).
So is it my fault his package was lost?
In a trade I would say that both people have an obligation: that's to send their parts of the deal. One guy did (with proof) the other didn't (because a third party did wrong - which is NOT Mongoose's fault).
If 1 side got the package and the other side didn't, how exactly can you proof what is in the missing package?
So as hard as it sounds. NoGoCat HAS to send his end. Else he is a BAD trader in my eyes. 100%!!!
Well, I guess I have to be a bad trader in your eyes for now until the Mods get this resolved
Well, what makes me wonder is:
Had the two agreed to simulsend (obviously Mongoose had to send first here) would people expect him to send the KC Lantern back, because the PO made a mistake???
I mean he DID send the figure which he can prove.
NoGoCat, however, refuses to send his part of the deal because he never got the package (which is NOT Mongoose's fault).
In a trade I would say that both people have an obligation: that's to send their parts of the deal. One guy did (with proof) the other didn't (because a third party did wrong - which is NOT Mongoose's fault).
So as hard as it sounds. NoGoCat HAS to send his end. Else he is a BAD trader in my eyes. 100%!!!
So say two people want to trade at a local comic store. They each bring their figures, and they can each see that they brought their figures, but they hold off on trading until the tournament they're playing in is over. During the tournament, trader 1 misplaces his figure and can't find it. It appears to have been stolen by a third party. According to your logic, the trader 2 has to give up his figure since the trader 1 brought the figure and showed intent to trade. Trader 2 has to give away a figure for free.
That's inane.:ermm:
zero_cochrane
04/12/2010, 09:56
I think the usefulness of this thread may be about up. Both parties have stated their experience in public; I don't see much use in raking over everything more now. I feel that the matter should be left in the hands of our moderators to resolve from this point.
Dr. Morbius
04/12/2010, 10:30
So say two people want to trade at a local comic store. They each bring their figures, and they can each see that they brought their figures, but they hold off on trading until the tournament they're playing in is over. During the tournament, trader 1 misplaces his figure and can't find it. It appears to have been stolen by a third party. According to your logic, the trader 2 has to give up his figure since the trader 1 brought the figure and showed intent to trade. Trader 2 has to give away a figure for free.
That's inane.:ermm:
That's a completely different situation and therefore not worth talking about!
Let's say you and I traded. We simulsend.
You receive your very valuable fig. The one you sent gets lost, although you have a confirmed delivery receipt. Will you keep the figure you received or will you send it back? Or vice versa...if I got it and you nothing. Would you want me to send it back?
Dr. Morbius
04/12/2010, 10:32
I grant you that he did send a package to my zip code but what is in it and where it went I do not know. DO YOU?
So is it my fault his package was lost?
If 1 side got the package and the other side didn't, how exactly can you proof what is in the missing package?
Well, I guess I have to be a bad trader in your eyes for now until the Mods get this resolved
So you are saying he probably sent you an old sock or something knowing that it would definitely get lost???
When he sent you a box with delivery confirmation we can assume he did send the figure. What sense would it make to send an empty box in a deal where you send first?!?!?
Complete nonsense, really!!!!
Completely different situation! Let's say you and I traded. We simulsend.
You receive your very valuable fig. The one you sent gets lost, although you have a confirmed delivery receipt. Can I keep the figure you send me or do you want it back?
The problem with your hypothetical situation is that this wasn't a simulsend case.
This was a low trader sends first.
Which really isn't terribly unreasonable seeing single digit trade can sometimes be worrying.
I've been burnt to in my fair share of trades. It's an unfortunate side effect of an honors system trading forum.
I'm sorry the OP lost a chase in the situation, however the trading forum on HCR really is a feature and not something that the staff or moderators or anyone can truly enforce. The only way that would be possible is if a moderator was the designated middle man for all trades.. But then i'm sure that would get really messy, and frankly I doubt anyone would want to pay twice for shipping..
I've traded with Nogo a few times.. He's a great trader, he wouldn't have earned so many positive feedback if that wasn't true.
now the post office on the other hand.. They deliver things wrong all the time. I constantly get mail for people 3 blocks away from my house (just happen to have the same street number, but an entirely different street).
Fortuantely for them I'm nice enough to bring the stuff over for them.. hopefully should my stuff get delivered there they are nice enough to bring it my way.
I'm not 100% familiar with signature confirmation, but is the confirmation of the address pre-printed on the green card or is that something that the person signing fills out?
So you are saying he probably sent you an old sock or something knowing that it would definitely get lost???
When he sent you a box with delivery confirmation we can assume he did send the figure. What sense would it make to send an empty box in a deal where you send first?!?!?
Complete nonsense, really!!!!
I can agree with you.. But then on the other hand there's all kinds of terrible liars out there on the net that you just can't judge (no offense OP, I don't know you, never traded with you and certainly am not calling you a liar, just playing devils advocate).
For all you know someone COULD have sent a sock to some address out there hoping that in such situation the person they traded with will say, "well it's not your fault I'll send your stuff along." I certainly can't vouch for every person who sends a package.. So yeah.. maybe they did.
Further, It seems nogo is being more than reasonable on trying to track this package down. I too would give up after I received some negative feedback.. Why bother??
Perhaps the OP DID call the post office and such.. But frankly the rash posts and such lead me to believe that he's a bit quick to jump at something. I personally would love to see the PM's between him in Nogo just to get a better understanding. Preferably from both of them to see that nobody is changing any text or anything to get rid of something that I shouldn't see or whatever.
But again.. I'm REALLY sorry this happened to you OP. It seriously could be a mailing issue with a dishonest person which the package was delivered.. But what exactly are you hoping for HCR to do about it? That's what I would like to know..
A snipet from the rules thread:
http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=266212
3.1 Our site acts as a venue to allow anyone to offer and trade just about anything, at anytime, from anywhere, in a variety of trading formats. We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We cannot ensure that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction.
Dr. Morbius
04/12/2010, 10:53
What I do not understand DemonRS, is that he's being punished for doing nothing wrong. He did anything he could do to provide a save delivery. Box and Delivery confirmation. Still he's not getting anything because they say he probably sent an empty box.
I thought in the States you are innocent until proven guilty. Isn't it the other way around in that case?
Let me give you another example. Let's say I send first in a deal, where I decide to have you as a neutral middle-man. You receive the figure and forward it with dc. It get's lost in the same way as in Mongoose's case.
Is it really ok that the other guy would say since it got lost because the Postal Service screwed up he's not going to send his part?
Maybe I'm completely off here...but if someone sends me a figure with dc and all and it get's lost in the mail ...it's bad for me, yet I'd still send my part of the deal since my trading partner did nothing wrong.
Am I wrong here?
What I do not understand DemonRS, is that he's being punished for doing nothing wrong. He did anything he could do to provide a save delivery. Box and Delivery confirmation. Still he's not getting anything because they say he probably sent an empty box.
I thought in the States you are innocent until proven guilty. Isn't it the other way around in that case?
Let me give you another example. Let's say I send first in a deal, where I decide to have you as a neutral middle-man. You receive the figure and forward it with dc. It get's lost in the same way as in Mongoose's case.
Is it really ok that the other guy would say since it got lost because the Postal Service screwed up he's not going to send his part?
Maybe I'm completely off here...but if someone sends me a figure with dc and all and it get's lost in the mail ...it's bad for me, yet I'd still send my part of the deal since my trading partner did nothing wrong.
Am I wrong here?
Yes that's the right thing to do.. However, should I have been put in a similar situation I'd certainly be going to the post office and getting it all checked out first. The right thing is NOT leaving negative feedback in the process of trying to figure out where the package is. As that pretty well is going to make the individual stop trying. It would certainly make me stop trying.
The problem with this situation (and I understand why one side is upset at not receiving anything, and I understand why the other side would NOT WANT TO SEND UNTIL THEY VERIFY) is that the trade in question is a fairly high dollar trade. And because the chase is such a high cost single piece, the person receiving the chase would want to make sure they're getting the chase they're willing to trade X number of pieces in order to get.
Similarly it's easy to feel scammed if you're the person sending said high dollar piece and something happened with the post office and it got messed up. I certainly would be doing my best to work it out and figure out what happened at the post office before coming on a public sight and basically slandering the individual.. Moreso since the recipient has been extraordinarily successful at proving they are a good trader.
Like I said, I'd really love to see the signature confirmation card.
I personally would love to see the PM's between him in Nogo just to get a better understanding. Preferably from both of them to see that nobody is changing any text or anything to get rid of something that I shouldn't see or whatever.
You have permission to see my PMs on this issue if you want to see them. The only thing is not all correspondence were done on PM. The part about me tracking it down going knocking on doors were done on e-mail. After Mongoose stopped replying to my e-mails and left me feedback, I went back and tried the PMs again
Additionally, I'd like to point out Dr. M, that you're right.. Why would someone who's supposed to send first send an empty box.. I completely agree. OR why would they intentionally send to the wrong address..
It doesn't make sense.. You're right..
But then you've got someone with 433+ feedback.. It doesn't make sense for them to suddenly be a scammer either.
Which is why It seems this is an issue that needs to be worked out with the post office more than anything as it seems both individuals are honest with their half of the situation. Again something I wouldn't bother helping with should I have received negative feedback.
Dr. Morbius
04/12/2010, 13:15
But then you've got someone with 433+ feedback.. It doesn't make sense for them to suddenly be a scammer either.
Didn't say he was a scammer or a cheater or someone who rips people off. Nobody with his reputation starts inventing stories about a deal. I 100% believe him that the figure never arrived. THAT, however is NOT Mongoose's fault and he's the one losing in this deal. I was merely pointing out that someone who doesn't send his part of a deal although the other guy DID send his part of the deal is a bad trader in my books. A good trader would follow through with the deal...I would anyways.
I wholeheartedly agree with you though that Mongoose did go a little overboard a little quickly on the whole deal.
BudPalmer
04/12/2010, 13:31
If NoGoCat didn't get the 1st part of the deal, I'm not really sure what the problem is. I wouldn't send out my end of a deal if I didn't get what I was promised! This is silly. If the post office screwed the OP then, that needs to be addressed. If NoGoCat has helped in this, he's already gone above and beyond from where I stand.
That's a completely different situation and therefore not worth talking about!
Let's say you and I traded. We simulsend.
You receive your very valuable fig. The one you sent gets lost, although you have a confirmed delivery receipt. Will you keep the figure you received or will you send it back? Or vice versa...if I got it and you nothing. Would you want me to send it back?
Dr. M, it looks like you're ignoring my scenario because it emphasizes how silly your trader expectations are. Your own scenario is too different to be relevant (simulsend, one trader actually received his item, the issue is whether to return an item, not to send one of your own out), whereas my scenario is nearly identical to the actual issue (only difference being mail vs. in-person trading). Sounds like you wouldn't stick to your principles if you were trading face-to-face and an identical situation arose.
I say NoGoCat is going above and beyond in trying to help Mongoose after the latter's reaction, and while I understand Mongoose's frustration, I think he overreacted with the negative itrader feedback.
Dr. M, it looks like you're ignoring my scenario because it emphasizes how silly your trader expectations are. Your own scenario is too different to be relevant (simulsend, one trader actually received his item, the issue is whether to return an item, not to send one of your own out), whereas my scenario is nearly identical to the actual issue (only difference being mail vs. in-person trading). Sounds like you wouldn't stick to your principles if you were trading face-to-face and an identical situation arose.
I say NoGoCat is going above and beyond in trying to help Mongoose after the latter's reaction, and while I understand Mongoose's frustration, I think he overreacted with the negative itrader feedback.
I'm pretty sure he's ignoring it because it isn't the same situation. Here, there was something mailed and verifiable by the Post Office that it was received by the mailee. Action was taken, rather than something you had on your person no longer being on your person because of being stolen, yet you want the trader to give you what you were gonna trade.
Wait, what? That comparison makes no sense.
Whether or not it was 'really in the box' is another matter, however, it seems pretty absurd to assume somebody would send a box without a figure hoping it would be mailed to the wrong address.
Unfortunately for the mailer, he didn't use Insurance...or at least he hasn't mentioned it. I'd be annoyed if I sent a chase figure 'nowhere', but I certainly would have insured it for what it would take to replace it if it got lost. I suppose though, here it wouldn't matter because the PO is saying it was delivered.
I'm pretty sure he's ignoring it because it isn't the same situation. Here, there was something mailed and verifiable by the Post Office that it was received by the mailee.
And in my scenario the figure was visually verified to be present and intended for trade. Dr. Morbius is the one claiming that if a trade is agreed to and trader 1 shows that he attempted to get the figure to trader 2, then trader 2 must give his figure to trader 1 reardless of circumstance.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm a rarity in having learned about analogies in school. Whenever I post one on the 'realms someone inevitably fails to realize that points of comparison in analogies need not be identical, merely similar enough to draw parallels.:sleep: There's just no helping some people.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm a rarity in having learned about analogies in school. Whenever I post one on the 'realms someone inevitably fails to realize that points of comparison in analogies need not be identical, merely similar enough to draw parallels.:sleep: There's just no helping some people.
But it's not parallel. A face to face trade where the figure is lost is simply NOT the same as mailing figures out to people and it gets lost. The diffference is all the effort on one half the the trade is done. The trade has been initiated. In a face to face, it would pretty much have to be I handed the guy the figure. He drops it. It breaks. He calls off the trade because now the figure is broken, although i delivered it as per the trade agreement. He never gives me figure I was supposed to get. You are rare if you think your analogies fit and so you're the only one who gets them.
If this guy sent out E-2 Superman with nothing to verify he did it and then claimed he did, well, obviously there'd be no argument about this at all.
For what it's worth, I agree with Dr. Morbius to the extent that the sender is being 'penalized' for acting in good faith, but I can't go as far as to say NoGoCat should have to send him a KC GL because he sent it and it was received. I'd more be trying to reobtain, track down the Superman, and if that isn't possible, filing the insurance claim. If he didn't get it, well fine. If he did, well, at least I can get another E-2 Superman and I'm not out anything.
Dr. Morbius
04/12/2010, 14:22
And in my scenario the figure was visually verified to be present and intended for trade. Dr. Morbius is the one claiming that if a trade is agreed to and trader 1 shows that he attempted to get the figure to trader 2, then trader 2 must give his figure to trader 1 reardless of circumstance.
Sometimes I wonder if I'm a rarity in having learned about analogies in school. Whenever I post one on the 'realms someone inevitably fails to realize that points of comparison in analogies need not be identical, merely similar enough to draw parallels.:sleep: There's just no helping some people.
This scenario is way off, sorry. I know analogies, don't worry. But yours is off. In a mail trade the trade is done by mailing out stuff, not by proving that you are in possession of said item (as in your scenario).
Sol's explanation is very clear about that. Thank you Sol.
Didn't say he was a scammer or a cheater or someone who rips people off. Nobody with his reputation starts inventing stories about a deal. I 100% believe him that the figure never arrived. THAT, however is NOT Mongoose's fault and he's the one losing in this deal. I was merely pointing out that someone who doesn't send his part of a deal although the other guy DID send his part of the deal is a bad trader in my books. A good trader would follow through with the deal...I would anyways.
I wholeheartedly agree with you though that Mongoose did go a little overboard a little quickly on the whole deal.
And there in lies the problem.
I'm willing to bet nogo was willing to accommodate, however was trying to do as much as he could to figure out what happened to the package to make sure it was indeed sent and all that before just sending things out.
It's the fact that someone turns around and gives negative feedback rather quickly before the issue is sorted out that ends up causing someone to decide not to continue trying to accomodate. Especially when you pride yourself on the number of positive feedback you've accumulated.
Sol, Morbius, you've both ignored the key point of the analogy and chosen to quibble over the minor details of it. Sol, your analogy is further off than mine since NoGoCat never got the Superman chase.
Since neither of you is willing to actually address my question and would rather make excuses based on whether or not you like my analogy, there's no convincing either of you. My analogy was an application of this situation in a face-to-face environment, but neither of you will address how that should play out, so I'm done. Y'all are too obstinant to have a productive discussion.
CSI, why don't you do me a favor and contact the buyers and see if you can get an address for the seller and post it on here? If not the address how about just the name on the paypal account?
Please post the name and the street on here if you don't mind.
I've done a couple deals with NoGoCat, and he is no way a scammer. Hell a while back when I was selling Heroclix to raise money to pay for my dog to have surgery so I wouldn't have to put her down, he donated $100.00 to the cause without buying any clix from me (but sadly I had to put her down, and he got his money back from me). NoGoCat is one of the best people to deal with here on the realms. Mongoose I think you need to take 2 steps back, take a deep breath and relax, if he was a scammer he wouldn't be on here posting evidence that he never received the package, and that he is trying to do all he can to find out what happened, now tell me what kind of scammer would take the time and make the effort to go door to door looking for a package? All the while keeping people updated on this thread with what was happening.
looks like your covered, if you still need me to attempt contact let me know.
also for the record I have traded with NoGo somewhere between 5-10 times and I have never had a problem and can confirm he is a great guy. On the other hand I can understand the OP's frustration, if I sent something of that value with DC that showed delivered I would be very frustrated too and might be quick to leave feedback. Hopefully the Post Office can fix their screw up, and I would recommend shipping something of that value with insurance next time.
mecimcim
04/12/2010, 20:02
Let this be a lesson to all. When sending a high price fig use more than DC#.
If you’re sending something important, you may want to be sure that it reaches not just the right address, but the right hands as well. With Signature Confirmation, you can get confirmation of delivery - including date, time and location - and you can request to have a letter faxed or mailed to you with a copy of the recipient’s signature.
JESSE
Silver Lantern
04/12/2010, 20:05
Let this be a lesson to all. When sending a high price fig use more than DC#.
If you’re sending something important, you may want to be sure that it reaches not just the right address, but the right hands as well. With Signature Confirmation, you can get confirmation of delivery - including date, time and location - and you can request to have a letter faxed or mailed to you with a copy of the recipient’s signature.
JESSE
Did you even read the thread?
He did get delivery confirmation...
Someone who doesn't live with Nogocat, at whatever address the package was delivered to, called Britney Torres, signed for it...
Now what???
afinley2429
04/12/2010, 23:19
Please post the name and the street on here if you don't mind.
S.O.S.
9306 Bowmore Ct
Houston, TX 77095
Thanks afinley2429 for posting the address. She's about 25 miles away from me since I'm at 77006
Mongoose
04/13/2010, 02:23
Yes that's the right thing to do.. However, should I have been put in a similar situation I'd certainly be going to the post office and getting it all checked out first. The right thing is NOT leaving negative feedback in the process of trying to figure out where the package is. As that pretty well is going to make the individual stop trying. It would certainly make me stop trying.
The problem with this situation (and I understand why one side is upset at not receiving anything, and I understand why the other side would NOT WANT TO SEND UNTIL THEY VERIFY) is that the trade in question is a fairly high dollar trade. And because the chase is such a high cost single piece, the person receiving the chase would want to make sure they're getting the chase they're willing to trade X number of pieces in order to get.
Similarly it's easy to feel scammed if you're the person sending said high dollar piece and something happened with the post office and it got messed up. I certainly would be doing my best to work it out and figure out what happened at the post office before coming on a public sight and basically slandering the individual.. Moreso since the recipient has been extraordinarily successful at proving they are a good trader.
Like I said, I'd really love to see the signature confirmation card.
Okay, first off, to address people, and obviously you, in particular. I am the one that contacted him, shortly after receiving the delivering confirmation of the mail, through the USPS online site. He stated he didn't receive the package, which I believed to be bs. I then contacted Carlos Mucha (Whom I see on the realms constantly, and even back in the days of Xplosion as I recall). He told me Stephen was a good guy, so I investigated the issue. I contacted USPS, spend ALOT of time on the phone (Have you tried calling them, it's not a 10 minute call). I set up a case number, for investigation. I then waited awhile, and made a search on ebay, finding the link to a chase superman that just happened to be being sold a day afterwards. I contacted his post office, and man, please call it, cause you won't believe how ghetto that place comes across as. His post dept. isn't filled with the nicest individuals, but after about 15 minutes on the phone, I spoke with Ms. Jacobs, who as I stated is the postal manager. She told me that Brittany Torres signed off on the package, and that she lives there.
I'm also kinda peeved that you some of you think i'd send a sock. I won this ebay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220550476357
If you guys don't believe that I had the fig, you can contact the seller, or i'll ask some of the members I know on here to tell you I had the fig. WTF would I send a sock, with the right address, to Stephen, in hopes of it getting lost so I can get a KC GL? Riiiigghhhhtttttt!!!! I listed the case number, just recently submitted the delivery confirmation receipt to DemonRS, as i'm hoping he will check his email and vouch for, and showed the ebay auction I won. I spent literally hours on this.
Personally I think that we should contact the seller/ trader on their ebay/ Amazon account, and have them respond, to see their feedback. I've been on this site for dang near 7 years, as far as I can recall. Way back when I don't even recall an itrader rating. The trader system IMHO is busted, and totally gives bias to a person with a higher rating (I have 100% positive feedback on ebay, and have over 90 transactions on it, but that isn't taken into account). Instead someone with a high priced item has to send first if they don't have high enough feedback.
I was told by my local post office that it is listed at the right address, and that the postal carrier submitted it his address, but to a Brittany Torres. Ehh, I hope this thread shows somebody out there to use a third party. I honestly think Stephen just kept the fig, as the proof shows it. I don't care what other people are stating, and I know that I didn't send the dude a sock.
The sock example was merely an example that someone COULD do something like that hence why someone would be a bit more cautious on a high dollar trade.
I do believe both you and Nogo cat are telling to truth (at least that you sent the item and nogo saying he didn't recieve it).
I do not believe that Brittany Torres lives at Nogo's address. Sorry.. The signature confirmation card is kind of a joke. While it lists Nogo's address on it, it's a part that was filled out by you. It doesn't have a spot where miss torres would be inserting the address to make sure it went to the right thing. In other words.. The mail man could have taken the package to another house with a similar address (or to someone who gets a lot of packages or something mistakenly) and just had them sign without really paying attention to the address properly. If you notice there's a box there that says, "Is the address delievered the same as the address in box 1? yes/no
Nothing was checked..
Then the box for what the address delivered to (in the case of no) was not filled out either. So yes I believe 100% you sent it. I also believe 100% that nogo didn't receive it.
I do believe the method to which you went about this is an issue though. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that you and Nogo were chatting by email and when he asked to see the delivery confirmation receipt you stopped responding and left him negative feedback. I know there have people previously who have had an issue with the mail and nogo has still accommodated..
I certainly don't think looking up E2 supermans and coincidentally finding someone who sells heroclix in one of the biggest cities in texas is all that weird. As someone who lived in philadelphia before or now right next to Washington DC, I find it silly that you'd think he'd be the only person in that town who has an interest in heroclix (whether that's collecting or selling). That same individual also sold the 2 chase batmen and a Thor the reigning with the other LE's.. Has anyone sold Nogo these recently or something?
The I-trader system isn't that busted, it's not perfect, but not completely broken. How do you know how many things someone else has done on ebay? How can you be sure unless you've dealt with me on ebay that the account I list with 598 feedback since I joined in 1999 is actually me?
You can't.
So when it comes to trading somewhere else you need to build your rep there too. If you opened an ebay account after being a long time yahoo auctions patron, should ebay automatically give you the 200 yahoo feedback?
So you earn it here. And yes it is skewed towards the people with higher trade counts, but you know what? That's because they have conducted tons of trades without a hitch. You've done 90 transactions on ebay.. awesome. Like I said I've done 597 Unique transactions, I couldn't even tell you how many transactions with the same individuals. But you know what? On HCR the rules say if I trade with nogo I have to send first, and I would.
The problem with the itrader system is it's an honors system based trading. We have no way to enforce it, you're not paying paypal or something to guarantee you receive an item. But that's a risk you're deciding to take when you decide to trade. You're at the mercy of the post office.
If I were you I'd make an attempt to reasonably talk with nogo instead of accusing him of being a swindler. As I'm pretty sure this would work out in a way that you could be happy with if you would do that.
I also notice you wrote this in his negative feedback:
So yeah, oh, and mods, I sent out multiple emails in hopes of you doing something, and not one of you got back to me. Funny, cause i've actually played some of you on play by post years ago. Not very happy.
What exactly is it you want us to do? Force him to ship? You already labeled him as a bad trader.. You've already resigned yourself to saying he's not going to ship anything and he's cheating you. What exactly am I able to do? Even if I told him to ship there's no way to enforce that. I can erase/modify/and give warning points for posts..
I have no control over the post office (boy wouldn't that be nice).
I'm sorry this happened to you, but the way you're going about this is NOT the best way to be doing it.
Second.. Looking at your own i-trader rating, I see you've already done business with nogo previously.. I find that one interesting for lack of better word..
zero_cochrane
04/13/2010, 07:38
I really doubt that either participant in this matter intended to rip off the other, but that they've been a victim of misfortune and failed communication.
I personally think that if a package has gone missing in the mail or has been misdelivered, it's on the sender to follow that up and determine where it went (and that can involve causing a fuss with the post office until they cough up the information or compensate the sender). For what it's worth, as a recipient I don't think I'd actually have the right to demand this information where I live; the package isn't mine until it is delivered to me. I'm sure that laws and postal regulations differ in other areas, though.
He stated he didn't receive the package, which I believed to be bs.You may have your reasons for believing that, but it seems awfully out of character. And he gains a lot more by maintaining his top-rate trading reputation (which I'm sure has made him a bit of money by now) over ripping somebody off for $77. I would rate NoGoCat's trading reputation as worth a lot more than $77.
I'm also kinda peeved that you some of you think i'd send a sock.For what it's worth, this also seem extremely unlikely.
The trader system IMHO is busted, and totally gives bias to a person with a higher rating (I have 100% positive feedback on ebay, and have over 90 transactions on it, but that isn't taken into account).It is possible to negotiate with other traders, despite a disparity in ratings. I almost always simulsend, even with newer traders or traders with significantly lower ratings. I also can't think of a time when another trader asked me to send first. If you build up a relationship with your trading partners, only make trades that you are 100% comfortable with, and use insurance for higher-value items, problems are few and far between.
I honestly think Stephen just kept the fig, as the proof shows it. I don't care what other people are statingYou can discount other people if you want, but you don't have proof. Proof would change people's minds, but I don't see any "proof" yet.
Silver Lantern
04/13/2010, 10:27
Mongoose, imagine for a minute (and I know you don't agree, but just play along here), that Nogocat is telling the truth. That he's done nothing here but wait at his house for a package to arrive that never got there. If that is the case, then he's kind of screwed as he's gotten negative feedback from you now for basically doing nothing wrong.
I understand you're angry, but your anger is potentially directed at the wrong person. It's quite possible, in fact it's probable, that nogocat never got your package on the delivery date in question. Not because he says so, and not because we should take his word blindly for it, but because he has provided proof, that the deliveries to his home on that date, were made at a different time (off by about 2 hours) then the delivery of your parcel. He mentioned that the postman only goes once a day to his house, which I must agree is fairly common sense.
Even if you disregard the fact that he has 430+ trades here without a hitch beforehand, even if you disregard that building up that reputation is not worth blowing it on a single $75 figure (albeit expensive), and even if you think that the fact that you have a card signed by one Brittany Torres, proves to you that Nogocat is ripping you off...
How do you explain that if the postman only goes to a house once in a day, two different packages are delivered to the same location two hours apart on the same date?
That's reason and strong evidence to believe Nogocat.
Have you tried doing a search online for this Brittany Torres at that zip code or location? I hope, that Brittany Torres or her parents, have realized this was delivered to the wrong house and are in the process of returning the package to you, as unlikely as that may seem.
Many years ago, I made a trade on here with a fellow named Ohoni. I don't remember what the trade was, but I sent my end, and his end didn't arrive after he said he sent it. A week passed by, then two, then I really started to think I had been ripped off... He did not use delivery confirmation IIRC, so we could not track the package. Nevertheless, I came on here and started a bad trader thread (we had a bad trader forum back in those days)... Long story short, his package arrived about 2-3 months late, post marked around the time that he swore all along he had sent the package. Moral of the story: sometimes things just get lost in the mail.
The post office is far from perfect, and if you want assurance of value when you ship something, then it is YOUR responsibility to get insurance on it, which I presume by now that you didn't do.
I hope your package was delivered to the wrong address and either they send it back or to Nogocat (although you may still not believe him if they do that), or I hope that you have some luck locating this Brittany Torres down as she may have your chase in a corner somewhere, not even sure what the thing is or what its worth. But even if that's not the case, what can you expect Nogocat to do? What could he possibly do to avoid a bad trader mark? Send you the KC GL? It may be worth it for him at this point, as it sucks to tarnish his rep for the post office's mistake, but it may be his only recourse to avoid a bad trader mark.
You also bash the itrader system a bit, but the truth is that it is like any other feedback system, and is there for the protection of the users. Why should your 90+ feedback on Ebay be taken into account? Why is that feedback better than HCrealms Itrader feedback? It isn't... Just like you build up a trader rating on ebay over the years, so has Nogocat here.
And for the record, I don't even think I've ever had a trade with Nogocat (but I may be wrong), and I don't know him or endorse him. In fact, once he offered to sell me some stuff but he wanted ebay/dealer prices and I wanted a bigger discount to buy bulk then he was willing to offer, so we couldn't agree. I am indifferent towards him, and don't necessarily care for him one way or the other. But his feedback, I respect. You don't build 430+ feedback without negatives without being a most excellent trader, and that gives him at least the benefit of the doubt, IMO.
...but because he has provided proof, that the deliveries to his home on that date, were made at a different time (off by about 2 hours) then the delivery of your parcel. He mentioned that the postman only goes once a day to his house, which I must agree is fairly common sense.
...even if you think that the fact that you have a card signed by one Brittany Torres, proves to you that Nogocat is ripping you off...
Again after first hand seeing the return receipt I can pretty easily see that it's not a fool proof system (even the signature confirmation card allows the item to be dropped off at a different address should the box be filled out).
So with 2 different drop off times it's clear the box went to the wrong address, and nobody made note of it on the sig card.
BudPalmer
04/13/2010, 10:41
I've had something that showed as delivered to my house (with the USPS delivery confirmation) show up two days after it was supposed to have been delivered. The USPS system is FAAAAAAR from fool-proof!
I've had something that showed as delivered to my house (with the USPS delivery confirmation) show up two days after it was supposed to have been delivered. The USPS system is FAAAAAAR from fool-proof!
Yup i've had something that I was tracking on the web that said delivered almost a week before it arrived at my house.
I'm assuming that was a case where my package went to the wrong place.
naeblis501
04/13/2010, 11:14
If i was sent a trade with a DC# and it didn't arrive I would stand good for it. I have dreaded this situation and it almost happened to me once. Mongoose has DC# showing it was delivered to his address, his end is done. It should be on NOGO to make it right or it looks like he is a thief in my opinion.
naeblis501
04/13/2010, 11:37
To clarify I am not calling anyone a thief but the situation does look bad especially when nothing is done to make up for it.
BudPalmer
04/13/2010, 11:42
To clarify I am not calling anyone a thief but the situation does look bad especially when nothing is done to make up for it.
Again, to make up for not getting anything? This is where the dispute really starts. Let's take another spin around, won't you?
If i was sent a trade with a DC# and it didn't arrive I would stand good for it. I have dreaded this situation and it almost happened to me once. Mongoose has DC# showing it was delivered to his address, his end is done. It should be on NOGO to make it right or it looks like he is a thief in my opinion.
To clarify I am not calling anyone a thief but the situation does look bad especially when nothing is done to make up for it.
I agree with you.
The problem is in the attempts to track down the package mongoose left negative feedback for nogo. Sure nogo probably could have sent his half faster but the immediate was tracking down the package while it was still a fresh problem.
After the point he started getting his name drug through the dirt and left negative feedback and such, I certainly can understand why he'd wouldn't send.
After discussion with Nogo this situation will have a resolution that doesn't leave mongoose feeling completely screwed.. Therfore this topic is closed.
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