TB&TB Graveyard map and peanut base figs

[traitorarmor]

Since I'm going to be playing on this map tomorrow at a brick cracking gathering....

Map text (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=12116119&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=133811649078&aid=-1&id=616625513#!/photo.php?pid=12116120&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=133811649078&aid=-1&id=616625513&fbid=10150150701215514)

Open Graves: Orange squares are hindering terrain for movement purposes and clear terrain for line of fire purposes. Any line of fire drawn to a character occupying an orange square is blocked.

Map pic (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=12116120&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=133811649078&aid=-1&id=616625513&fbid=10150150701215514#!/photo.php?pid=12116119&o=all&op=1&view=all&subj=133811649078&aid=-1&id=616625513&fbid=10150150700995514)

So the question that I was thinking about was about the peanut bases, as the orange squares seem to be single squares only.

My first thought without looking at the wording was that it would work similar to the hindering terrain with a peanut base(depends on the square of the peanut being targeted).

But from the map text I got the impression that if even one part of the peanut is in the orange the character has all lines of fire blocked to them(except Captain America :p).

Would that be correct?

Thanks.

[Maraud]

It will fall under the Stealth rules with them, since stealth says the same thing.
"Any line of fire drawn to this character that crosses hindering terrain, including a square of hindering terrain occupied by this character, is blocked."

Also do you have a picture to the whole map? the second link is the same as the first.

[asininelad]

Click next

[Crow]

Geez, these duos aren't even out yet and someone already thinks they have one foot in the grave. :)

My guess would be that it's just like hindering - the part of the figure inside the square is subject to that rules of that square, and the part that is not... is not. Depending on how the peanut-base parks an opponent could draw LoF to the exposed half if it doesn't pass through the other half.

[Hero_guy]

It will fall under the Stealth rules with them, since stealth says the same thing.
"Any line of fire drawn to this character that crosses hindering terrain, including a square of hindering terrain occupied by this character, is blocked."

Also do you have a picture to the whole map? the second link is the same as the first.

I would agree with this also. It seems to me that double base figs would get only half the benefit from the orange squares. If they were occupying an orange square, and the attacker has enough range to target the part of the base that wasn't in the orange square, then it would be a valid target because figures can't block LoF to themselves. So even if the front half can't be targeted, it wouldn't block LoF to the back half either. Stealth works the same way, but with additional perks. For instance

PE__A

PE = the two squares a double based figure occupies.
A = attacker.

If PE has stealth and E is a square of hindering terrain A would not be able to target either P or E because LoF crosses hindering terrain. In the case of the Graveyard map, E is not hindering terrain and does not block LoF so P can be targeted even if E can't.

[Crow]

If they were occupying an orange square, and the attacker has enough range to target the part of the base that wasn't in the orange square, then it would be a valid target because figures can't block LoF to themselves.

... wait, where does it say that figures cannot block lines of fire to (other parts of) themselves? Is that a ruling?

[elfholme]

... wait, where does it say that figures cannot block lines of fire to (other parts of) themselves? Is that a ruling?

Does it say they can somewhere?

[Harpua]

Open Graves: Orange squares are hindering terrain for movement purposes and clear terrain for line of fire purposes. Any line of fire drawn to a character occupying an orange square is blocked.
I haven't seen the map, so I'm trusting this quote as accurate.

I would say that this is not subest to the same thing as Stealth as the wording is definitely not the same.

If a DB figure has half of its base in an orange square, then it occupies an orange square and any line of fire drawn to the figure is blocked. There is no mention of the LoF crossing the orange square.

... wait, where does it say that figures cannot block lines of fire to (other parts of) themselves? Is that a ruling?
There's a long story with this one.

Originally we had no answer, so Karl asked Seth if the halves of a DB figure block LoF to one another. He said at that time that they did.

Something came up later which prompted Norm to ask Seth a question involving this. When Norm mentioned the blockage, Seth retracted the earlier ruling.


In the rulebook, page 9 is where the current ruling is.
To determine if there is a clear line of fire, use any straight edge or draw an imaginary line from the center of the attacker’s square to the center of the target’s square. As demonstrated in Figure 10, the line of fire is blocked if
• the line of fire passes through a square occupied by a character other than the attacker or the target (Figure 10-A);

[Quebbster]

Originally we had no answer, so Karl asked Seth if the halves of a DB figure block LoF to one another. He said at that time that they did.

Something came up later which prompted Norm to ask Seth a question involving this. When Norm mentioned the blockage, Seth retracted the earlier ruling.
I think the question may originally have been asked to Jon L, as he was head designer when the double base figures were introduced in Fantastic Forces.
Not that it is important in any way though... We were told it worked one way, later on we were told it worked another way.

[MattMinus]

I haven't seen the map, so I'm trusting this quote as accurate.

I would say that this is not subest to the same thing as Stealth as the wording is definitely not the same.

If a DB figure has half of its base in an orange square, then it occupies an orange square and any line of fire drawn to the figure is blocked. There is no mention of the LoF crossing the orange square.


Has Galactus found a new favorite map?

[Crow]

Has Galactus found a new favorite map?

Hahah, because he can dip his little toe in the grave and be "occupying" it, so nobody can draw LoF to him?

Twisted.

[squirecam]

Hahah, because he can dip his little toe in the grave and be "occupying" it, so nobody can draw LoF to him?

Twisted.

It is for this exact reason that it must be treated like stealth. Whatever is in the square is bliocked. Whatever isnt is not.

Otherwise, its capable of severe exploitation. Which is just stupid.

[Harpua]

It is for this exact reason that it must be treated like stealth. Whatever is in the square is bliocked. Whatever isnt is not.

Otherwise, its capable of severe exploitation. Which is just stupid.

Indeed. I agree that it is very exploitable.

[IceHot]

I dont see why thats necessarily a problem, if Ghost Rider can hide behind a Grave Stone in some situations I am sure he can dash his motorcycle back into a freshly dug grave in a heartbeat if he is already one wheel in.

Maybe Plastic Man would make a better example.

For me the ruling is not a large leap in comic book logic.

[squirecam]

I dont see why thats necessarily a problem, if Ghost Rider can hide behind a Grave Stone in some situations I am sure he can dash his motorcycle back into a freshly dug grave in a heartbeat if he is already one wheel in.

Maybe Plastic Man would make a better example.

For me the ruling is not a large leap in comic book logic.

The anti-monitor cannot hide in a 6 ft grave. Nor can Galactus.

If they cant, he cant.

[csi]

I have a question regarding this, if a double based character has stealth and one part of the base is in hindering and the other part is not, and the line of fire from an attacking character passes through the part that is in hindering, can the attack be made?



I haven't seen the map, so I'm trusting this quote as accurate.

I would say that this is not subest to the same thing as Stealth as the wording is definitely not the same.

If a DB figure has half of its base in an orange square, then it occupies an orange square and any line of fire drawn to the figure is blocked. There is no mention of the LoF crossing the orange square.


There's a long story with this one.

Originally we had no answer, so Karl asked Seth if the halves of a DB figure block LoF to one another. He said at that time that they did.

Something came up later which prompted Norm to ask Seth a question involving this. When Norm mentioned the blockage, Seth retracted the earlier ruling.


In the rulebook, page 9 is where the current ruling is.

[DerbyLembeck]

I have a question regarding this, if a double based character has stealth and one part of the base is in hindering and the other part is not, and the line of fire from an attacking character passes through the part that is in hindering, can the attack be made?If the line of fire crosses hindering terrain, the line of fire is blocked.
So if, say, the half the base (A) is in hindering terrain and the other half of the base (B) is not.

X . . . . . . A B

If X draws a line of fire drawn to B, it still crosses the hindering terrain square that A is in.

[IceHot]

The anti-monitor cannot hide in a 6 ft grave. Nor can Galactus.

If they cant, he cant.

There is no rational map argument that works with Galactus....

He eats planets, yet can easily fit in a Mall, or the JSA Museum.

The dude is way off scale to begin with.

I would think if you plan to use Galactus you already are House Ruling the Point Limit to allow for brokeness, why not either make it more broken or more House Ruled? Whats the difference?

[DiscoHippo]

i don't see where all the confusion is coming from. orange squares give stealth for that square, simple as that.

[mr-coffin]

i don't see where all the confusion is coming from. orange squares give stealth for that square, simple as that.

Wow, if only the game was that simple. Superman Ally can see through stealth so if 'orange squares give stealth' then Superman would ignore it. I assume thats not the case though.

[elfholme]

i don't see where all the confusion is coming from. orange squares give stealth for that square, simple as that.

Perfect example of why there is confusion. That is not what they do, but some people are trying to wrap themselves around the rules for them, coming to the same conclusion you did, and getting confused.

It *should* only affect the square itself, and characters in that square (and no other squares). In fact it should probably just give Stealth to a single-base character occupying that square. It does something a bit different, however.

[DiscoHippo]

Perfect example of why there is confusion. That is not what they do, but some people are trying to wrap themselves around the rules for them, coming to the same conclusion you did, and getting confused.

It *should* only affect the square itself, and characters in that square (and no other squares). In fact it should probably just give Stealth to a single-base character occupying that square. It does something a bit different, however.

it appears i misread it. it does say "a character occupying an orange square", so technically galactus can fit into a six foot hole :(

errata please, and soon

[nbperp]

errata please, and soon

This may be a good time to remind folks that their best source for how things will be ruled at their venue is their local judge/venue. No doubt, I'll have something to say. But a comment like this makes it sound like there is some huge event with lots on the line taking place in moments. And to that, I direct the pressure to the local guy.

I can honestly see this ruling going either way:

A multi-base character occupies every square it's in, therefore, if it occupies the orange square, no line of fire can be drawn to it. [No errata needed, but a clarification to folks may be in order]

OR

It only means that one square cannot have a LOF drawn to it [Small errata needed]

OR

It may mean that a multi-base figure, being sized greater than one square was never intended to be protected by the orange square at all [Bigger errata needed]

Which one? I don't know. In the meantime, I advise asking the judge running the event before you start (I know that I took a big hit at the Midnight Madness game because I assumed the first one was the way to go and it's not how the judge ruled it)

[Harpua]

This may be a good time to remind folks that their best source for how things will be ruled at their venue is their local judge/venue. No doubt, I'll have something to say. But a comment like this makes it sound like there is some huge event with lots on the line taking place in moments. And to that, I direct the pressure to the local guy.

I can honestly see this ruling going either way:

A multi-base character occupies every square it's in, therefore, if it occupies the orange square, no line of fire can be drawn to it. [No errata needed, but a clarification to folks may be in order]

OR

It only means that one square cannot have a LOF drawn to it [Small errata needed]

OR

It may mean that a multi-base figure, being sized greater than one square was never intended to be protected by the orange square at all [Bigger errata needed]

Which one? I don't know. In the meantime, I advise asking the judge running the event before you start (I know that I took a big hit at the Midnight Madness game because I assumed the first one was the way to go and it's not how the judge ruled it)
EXCELLENT!!!

Now maybe I can FINALLY get an official answer to this same question I have been asking since LoSH came out.

[asininelad]

EXCELLENT!!!

Now maybe I can FINALLY get an official answer to this same question I have been asking since LoSH came out.

Is it "Where do babies come from?"

[Harpua]

Is it "Where do babies come from?"

Squares inside the boundary of an orange line are transmatter gates, hacked to echo local gates rather than distant planets! When any character occupies a transmatter gate at the end of a move or power action, it may be moved to any other unoccupied transmatter gate on the map.

No. It's "Can I use my Sentinel to declare a multi-attack, on the first action declare a Running Shot/Charge, stopping with one square on a gate, make the attack, teleport to another gate, and make another Running Shot/Charge?"

[Maraud]

No. It's "Can I use my Sentinel to declare a multi-attack, on the first action declare a Running Shot/Charge, stopping with one square on a gate, make the attack, teleport to another gate, and make another Running Shot/Charge?"

You could move after the power action resolved to give multi-attack.

"MULTIATTACK Give this character a power action. It can use
two free actions against up to two targets per action. These free
actions can be power actions that include an attack, close combat
actions, or ranged combat actions......"

Since the gate says after a move action or a power action.
when you use RS as part of the multiattack it is still a free action.

[refrusdraob]

This may be a good time to remind folks that their best source for how things will be ruled at their venue is their local judge/venue. No doubt, I'll have something to say. But a comment like this makes it sound like there is some huge event with lots on the line taking place in moments. And to that, I direct the pressure to the local guy.

I can honestly see this ruling going either way:

A multi-base character occupies every square it's in, therefore, if it occupies the orange square, no line of fire can be drawn to it. [No errata needed, but a clarification to folks may be in order]

OR

It only means that one square cannot have a LOF drawn to it [Small errata needed]

OR

It may mean that a multi-base figure, being sized greater than one square was never intended to be protected by the orange square at all [Bigger errata needed]

Which one? I don't know. In the meantime, I advise asking the judge running the event before you start (I know that I took a big hit at the Midnight Madness game because I assumed the first one was the way to go and it's not how the judge ruled it)

as from the Fantastic Starter Rules
Moving double-base characters. The player moving a double-base character chooses any square adjacent to the double-base character to begin counting movement. A double-base character must end its movement so the both ends of its base occupy squares where it could end that movement and both ends of the base are on terrain at the same elevation.


I'd assume that the grave plots are a different elevation (i think of them as reverse elevated) so sounds like they wouldn't be able to occupy the square.... and if they could then only the base that actually occupies it would be "untargetable" for LOF purposes but you could shoot right over it and hit the back end of the double-base (like as if a double-base character were standing with one base in Hindering Terrain and one out, only the base in gets the hindering bonus/ or Stealth)

simple errata - !Double-base Characters cannot occupy the orange squares!

[Quebbster]

I'd assume that the grave plots are a different elevation (i think of them as reverse elevated)
That assumption is incorrect. There's only two elevations available in Heroclix: Elevated (inside red border) and grounded (everything else).
Unless there is a red border around the entire map except the orange squares, the orange squares are Grounded.

[Harpua]

You could move after the power action resolved to give multi-attack.

"MULTIATTACK Give this character a power action. It can use
two free actions against up to two targets per action. These free
actions can be power actions that include an attack, close combat
actions, or ranged combat actions......"

Since the gate says after a move action or a power action.
when you use RS as part of the multiattack it is still a free action.
Ok, then I'll assume that at your venue you don't allow Charge to be used with Blades/Claws/Fangs. After all, by your logic above, the close combat action now counts only as a free action. ;)

The RS/Charge within a Multiattack are free actions AND power actions.

[zero_cochrane]

Indeed. I agree that it is very exploitable.You don't need to have a double base to exploit this map - I was using Martian Manhunter in a sealed game, and he was practically untouchable. Any flying Hypersonic character will love the open graves and the walls/blocking terrain this map offers.

[Maraud]

MM is crazy when he gets the special power to gain +3 def against ranged or close attacks.

Throw him in those orange squares and people will be trying to hit a 19-20 Def.

[refrusdraob]

That assumption is incorrect. There's only two elevations available in Heroclix: Elevated (inside red border) and grounded (everything else).
Unless there is a red border around the entire map except the orange squares, the orange squares are Grounded.

so the space map is considered grounded? or elevated?

[Maraud]

so the space map is considered grounded? or elevated?

grounded since there is elevated on the map.

[refrusdraob]

well then think of the orange squares on the graveyard as grounded and everything else as elevated

[Quebbster]

well then think of the orange squares on the graveyard as grounded and everything else as grounded as well.
Fixed it for you.
No red lines = no elevated terrain. No elevated terrain = all terrain is grounded.

[refrusdraob]

Fixed it for you.
No red lines = no elevated terrain. No elevated terrain = all terrain is grounded.

special maps have special rules Hence orange squares dont block LOF there fore it shall always be ruled in my town as a hole in the ground and double-base characters cant occupy them cuz any other ruling on them is just ludicrous

[nbperp]

As an FYI, I've heard from WK about this map. There will be errata issued (details forthcoming) but in a nutshell...

Only single based figures get the advantage of orange squares. Anything else and LOF to the figure is no problem.

[necrodog]

As an FYI, I've heard from WK about this map. There will be errata issued (details forthcoming) but in a nutshell...

Only single based figures get the advantage of orange squares. Anything else and LOF to the figure is no problem.

Just to test my understanding...a double-based figure gains no benefit regardless of which end is being targeted, correct? As an example, a figure occupying C4 and C5 and being targeted from C1 is treated as occupying clear terrain.

[Jarimy123]

Makes sense to me, the graveyard square is a single square - so a double-based figure can't fit in it, so why would they get the bennie of it at all? It wouldn't.

Here's my thing - are they going to issue the same statement with hindering? Because wasn't it ruled in the past that if a double based figure has one part in hindering and the other not - the one base would get +1 hindering bonus, the other wouldn't. So it would depend which square you drew LOF to.

[refrusdraob]

As an FYI, I've heard from WK about this map. There will be errata issued (details forthcoming) but in a nutshell...

Only single based figures get the advantage of orange squares. Anything else and LOF to the figure is no problem.

k sounds good

[nbperp]

Makes sense to me, the graveyard square is a single square - so a double-based figure can't fit in it, so why would they get the bennie of it at all? It wouldn't.

Here's my thing - are they going to issue the same statement with hindering? Because wasn't it ruled in the past that if a double based figure has one part in hindering and the other not - the one base would get +1 hindering bonus, the other wouldn't. So it would depend which square you drew LOF to.

Hindering terrain will continue to work as it does now.

[fecundity]

MM is crazy when he gets the special power to gain +3 def against ranged or close attacks.

Throw him in those orange squares and people will be trying to hit a 19-20 Def.

Except that he can't draw LoF to himself (for Perplex) if he's in a grave.

[gmastermcd]

Except that he can't draw LoF to himself (for Perplex) if he's in a grave.

Damage - Telepathic Invisibility: Once at the beginning of your turn, you may choose close combat attack or ranged combat attack. Martian Manhunter modifies his defense by +3 against the chosen type of attack until the beginning of your next turn

There is no mention of LOF or perplex so he could get the +3

[goldpony]

i think i already know the answer, but since LoF are reciprocal...are characters occupying the orange squares able to draw LoF to characters outside the orange squares?

i ask because this is not an ability like stealth that can be turned off.

[Quebbster]

i think i already know the answer, but since LoF are reciprocal...are characters occupying the orange squares able to draw LoF to characters outside the orange squares?

i ask because this is not an ability like stealth that can be turned off.
Nothing in the map description says figures occupying orange squares cannot draw line of fire outside the square, so it's just fine... provided they don't try to draw LoF to another orange square of course.
And lines of fire aren't really reciprocal... there's tons of situations where one figure can see its opponent without being seen itself. Stealth is the most common way...

[goldpony]

but dont you have to turn stealth off when declaring LoF, meaning both characters can technically see each other during that action?

The wording to this map is similar to the Stealth ability so i was curious

[Quebbster]

but dont you have to turn stealth off when declaring LoF, meaning both characters can technically see each other during that action?
No, not at all. It's fine to remain Stealthed when attacking.

[squirecam]

Glad to see the ruling. Galactus beeing able to hide in the grave would have been too exploitable.

[goldpony]

No, not at all. It's fine to remain Stealthed when attacking.

this i am comfortable with, i am talking about when a line of fire needs to be drawn in order to use a power (like how how stealthed characters can't perplex themselves without turning off stealth)

[Harpua]

this i am comfortable with, i am talking about when a line of fire needs to be drawn in order to use a power (like how how stealthed characters can't perplex themselves without turning off stealth)

Yeah, you need to do that.

If you're in a gr

[goldpony]

could you please elaborate on your post? i am not understanding

[Quebbster]

this i am comfortable with, i am talking about when a line of fire needs to be drawn in order to use a power (like how how stealthed characters can't perplex themselves without turning off stealth)
Well, the map says "any line of fire drawn to a character occupying an orange square is blocked", so it would be impossible for them to PC/Perplex themselves.

[Harpua]

could you please elaborate on your post? i am not understanding

Wow, a good chunk of that got deleted.

For what it's worth, I was not slain while typing.


this i am comfortable with, i am talking about when a line of fire needs to be drawn in order to use a power (like how how stealthed characters can't perplex themselves without turning off stealth)

Yeah, you need to do that.

If you're in a grave, then you can't draw LoF to yourself.

As to your response above, I'm a bit confused.
but dont you have to turn stealth off when declaring LoF, meaning both characters can technically see each other during that action?

The wording to this map is similar to the Stealth ability so i was curious
Clearly you were speaking of two different characters and not speaking of Perplexing yourself.

[goldpony]

Yes, i did mean two separate characters i was just using that as an example. So, just to be sure i understand correctly, these squares act similarly to hindering terrain for a stealthed character in that

a) characters inside the squares can attack a character outside the square (ranged or CC)

b) cant be attacked themselves (unless adjacent)

C) cannot draw a LoF to a a character outside the square

[Quebbster]

Yes, i did mean two separate characters i was just using that as an example. So, just to be sure i understand correctly, these squares act similarly to hindering terrain for a stealthed character in that

a) characters inside the squares can attack a character outside the square (ranged or CC)

b) cant be attacked themselves (unless adjacent)

C) cannot draw a LoF to a a character outside the square

It's simple: A character occupying an orange square cannot have line of fire drawn to it. So it cannot be the target of a ranged attack, be Outwitted, Perplexed, etc.
It does not have any effect on figures not in an orange square though.

[goldpony]

i think i am understanding now. i have events coming up and just wanted to be clear.

[refrusdraob]

Wow, a good chunk of that got deleted.

For what it's worth, I was not slain while typing.




Yeah, you need to do that.

If you're in a grave, then you can't draw LoF to yourself.

As to your response above, I'm a bit confused.

Clearly you were speaking of two different characters and not speaking of Perplexing yourself.

so is close combat not an option while someone is in a grave or does that even require LOF?

[DerbyLembeck]

so is close combat not an option while someone is in a grave or does that even require LOF?Close combat does not require LoF, only adjacency. And nothing in the Open Grave rule effects adjacency of characters in adjacent squares.

[refrusdraob]

Close combat does not require LoF, only adjacency. And nothing in the Open Grave rule effects adjacency of characters in adjacent squares.

k thank you i didnt knw lol thats why i asked

[lancelot]

Okay, plenty of posts here but didn't see this:

I have Superman in an Open Grave and Hitman behind him. Can Hitman still make ranged attacks with Superman standing in front of him, albeit beneath in the Open Grave?

O
x
S
H

O, opposing character
x, clear terrain
S, Superman in Open Grave
H, Hitman

I'd say yes because the description says LoF is only blocked when you target the character in the orange square. Logically, Superman is underground giving Hitman a clear LOF to the opposing character, but as we all know, Logic and Heroclix don't mix and that said, I'm now changing my "interpretation" to the fact that Hitman CANNOT attack O. Correct?

[Quebbster]

Okay, plenty of posts here but didn't see this:

I have Superman in an Open Grave and Hitman behind him. Can Hitman still make ranged attacks with Superman standing in front of him, albeit beneath in the Open Grave?

O
x
S
H

O, opposing character
x, clear terrain
S, Superman in Open Grave
H, Hitman

I'd say yes because the description says LoF is only blocked when you target the character in the orange square. Logically, Superman is underground giving Hitman a clear LOF to the opposing character, but as we all know, Logic and Heroclix don't mix and that said, I'm now changing my "interpretation" to the fact that Hitman CANNOT attack O. Correct?
Unless there is red border lines involved, both characters are grounded and will therefore block line of fire to one another.

[lancelot]

Yep, there you go, quirky Heroclix logic :laugh:

There was another situation that came up that I was entirely unsure because the map is entirely outdoors but there's a looping wall around the mausoleum...

xOx
----
xxx
xGx

x, clear terrain
-, wall
G, my Giant

I cannot attack the opposing character due to the wall, correct?

[lancelot]

And Ultimates/Superman Allies still cannot see into the orange squares, right?

[Harpua]

And Ultimates/Superman Allies still cannot see into the orange squares, right?

Correct....

[Quebbster]

Yep, there you go, quirky Heroclix logic :laugh:
It is perfectly logical:
There are two elevation levels in Heroclix - grounded and elevated.
Elevated terrain is surrounded by a red border.
Thus, anything not surrounded by a red border is grounded terrain.

Additionally, nothing in the description of the grave terrain says it changes the elevation level. Therefore, there is no change in the elevation level.

Now, if you want to bring in real-world premises into the argument... you'd be making an error.

[lancelot]

It is perfectly logical:
There are two elevation levels in Heroclix - grounded and elevated.
Elevated terrain is surrounded by a red border.
Thus, anything not surrounded by a red border is grounded terrain.

Additionally, nothing in the description of the grave terrain says it changes the elevation level. Therefore, there is no change in the elevation level.

Now, if you want to bring in real-world premises into the argument... you'd be making an error.
Exactly, real world premises = 6 foot hole in the ground and someone hiding in there, there's no dude in front of you to block LOF :laugh: But I'm good to go with it.

How about that Giants & interactions with an outdoor piece of wall question I had a bit up there?

[Pseudotheist]

As an FYI, I've heard from WK about this map. There will be errata issued (details forthcoming) but in a nutshell...

Only single based figures get the advantage of orange squares. Anything else and LOF to the figure is no problem.
Don't see this referenced in the new Player's Guide; is the erratum still forthcoming?

[Crow]

Don't see this referenced in the new Player's Guide; is the erratum still forthcoming?

It's in there. Look closer.

[nbperp]

Don't see this referenced in the new Player's Guide; is the erratum still forthcoming?

It's in there. Look closer.

To be less cryptic, it is on page "1-2" (absolute page 4).

[hclixinarcadia]

Yep, there you go, quirky Heroclix logic :laugh:

There was another situation that came up that I was entirely unsure because the map is entirely outdoors but there's a looping wall around the mausoleum...

xOx
----
xxx
xGx

x, clear terrain
-, wall
G, my Giant

I cannot attack the opposing character due to the wall, correct?

I would say that LoF between O and G is blocked. See LoF Assistant (http://wizkidsgames.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Lines-of-Fire-Chart.pdf)

[Pseudotheist]

To be less cryptic, it is on page "1-2" (absolute page 4).

Ahh, so it's not an errata to the map, but general interpretation...
Special terrain (orange squares) that require a character to occupy the square, require the entire base must be occupying the terrain.
So, this means a double-based character in one square of space, and one out, would not have their range halved (unless firing at a target in space), even if they were drawing LoF from that square?

[Harpua]

Ahh, so it's not an errata to the map, but general interpretation...

So, this means a double-based character in one square of space, and one out, would not have their range halved (unless firing at a target in space), even if they were drawing LoF from that square?

Yeah...and it means I finally have my answer on the LoSH map. :( Sentinels can't use the gates.

[nbperp]

Yeah...and it means I finally have my answer on the LoSH map. :( Sentinels can't use the gates.

I've always warned you that asking questions means getting answers, whether you like them or not. :laugh:

[Harpua]

I've always warned you that asking questions means getting answers, whether you like them or not. :laugh:

They need to put that warning on all Magic 8-Balls.