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anonym0use
04/14/2010, 07:33
<img src="http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=158&pictureid=9285" style="width:200px;">
The Brave and the Bold

Primer Review
Part 1:Commons
Bruce Wayne (#001) to Parademon Drill Sergeant (#015)
Click "full story" below to find out how the Commons rate!

anonym0use
04/14/2010, 07:33
Welcome to a Sealed Primer review of the Brave and the Bold.

As many long time HCRealms members know AZS had a long history of providing excellent primer reviews. I was asked to take over the Primers with Hammer of Thor, and like a clown's understudy, I know I have some pretty big shoes to fill. (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4418979&postcount=18) I can only hope I do the series some justice.

I'm continuing with AZS's format, specifically:

Please Read:

* These figures are compared only within the [Brave and the Bold] set, only for sealed play at 300 points.

* There are only a few 1 or 5 ratings, based on their sealed play strength.
So even though your favorite character didn’t get five like you think it should, the ratings are only my recommendation. If you really like a fig, by all means play it.

* Everything written here is intended to be very broad in order to give a general idea of what may or may not work - These are not specific suggestions “you must play this!”
These are just my recommendations, and the combination of figures on a team can drastically affect a specific fig’s overall effectiveness.

*!!* Lastly, this review is just my opinion, and these are a lot of work to write - so I ask you very kindly, please don’t get angry at me for my ratings. I give reasonable explanations for each choice.
If you disagree (and you are welcome to do so), please try to do the same.


New game mechanics.

In addition to continuing the Army Building mechanic which debuted in Hammer of Thor, Brave and the Bold introduces a few new dimensions to Heroclix: Alter Egos, and Battlefield Promotions, both of which are found in the commons slot.

Alter Egos: The Alter Ego figures in B&tB have a special power somewhere on their dial that lets them swap out the entire figure/dial and replace it with the upgraded “costumed” version of the character. Clark Kent becomes Superman, Jason Blood becomes Etrigan, etc.

Two things to note with AEs:

1.) The AE power can be Outwit, preventing an upgrade.
2.) A corresponding AE figure cannot be played by itself at its lower point cost from its second starting line. Why? It just can’t. Don’t take my word for it though – consult the rules deputy Harpua.
The rules do not say that you can do it, so you cannot do it.

For one thing, you are attempting to start the figure on a certain click.

When you pay your 48 points, you are paying for Clark Kent. When you come to a certain point, you can swap him out, but that point is not at the beginning of the dial. Doing as you suggest would be the same as starting Unleased KC Superman on his HSS clicks.

Battlefield Promotion: The second “new ability” in the B&tB Commons allows certain figures to be upgraded – similar to Alter Egos. In this case, Checkmate Pawns become Checkmate Knights when they KO someone or roll a Critical Hit. Like Alter-Egos, this ability is provided by a power that can be countered. Unlike AEs, by upgrading a figure in this manner, you risk giving your opponent more points by swapping the figure out should the figure eventually be KO’d.

Please note, for the purposes of this review it will be difficult to rate Alter Egos and Battlefield promotion figures. While rumors have it that AE figures come packed with their costumed counterpart there’s no guarantee this is the case (and logically, this would make those Uncommons distinctly more Common). Likewise, a player will be lucky to pull two corresponding Battlefield Promotion figures to play together in a sealed event. Players lucky enough to do so, should consider their rating slightly (one shield?) higher.

Speaking of ratings, I'll be using shields to rate the figures.

:d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: Unplayable
:d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: Think twice before using this piece.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal: There might be a better option for you.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal: Not bad, but not the best.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: Strongly consider playing this figure.
:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: A team winning figure.

The dials for this review are based on the Brave and the Bold dial thread. (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=272055) Please let me know of any discrepancies and I will correct them.

anonym0use
04/14/2010, 07:33
COMMONS
===================================================

So what do we have in the common slots?

bb001 BRUCE WAYNE
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 48
Keywords: Celebrity, Gotham City, Trinity
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal610172691716917188161KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Alter Ego: Batman: Give Bruce Wayne a power action and replace this character with #016 Batman on its orange starting line. Existing action tokens from this character, as well a action tokens and pushing damage for this action are applied to the replacement Batman. If replaced, no victory points are awarded for this character and the replacement Batman is considered to be 48 points for all game effects

Hello cheap, common Outwit. What's that? You make a decent tie-up piece as well? Unfortunately players may be reluctant to send their Outwit like a lamb to slaughter, which leaves the question - do I hang back or get in their face? One lucky punch is all it needs to take out this non-caped crusader (I can hear Guy Gardner now... One Punch!). However, Bruce isn't afraid to fight - his 10 av makes Clark jealous, and unlike the reporter of steel, Bruce can make sure most of his damage sticks with that outwit. His corresponding AE dial is pretty solid too, not that it affects his rating here.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

=========================================================

bb002 Rookie CLARK KENT
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 48
Keywords: Metropolis, Reporter, Trinity
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal5816168161691628917289171KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Alter Ego: Superman Give Clark Kent a power action and replace this character w a B&B #017 Superman on its orange starting line. Existing action tokens from this character, as well as action tokens and pushing damage for this action are applied to the replacement Superman. If replaced, no victory points are awarded for this character and the replacement Superman is considered to be 48 points for all game effects.

I think I’m really going to enjoy having a “depowered” Clark figure, letting me reenact the times he’s stuck under a red son, or otherwise incapacitated. That said, in sealed events, “Smallville” here is a mixed bag. He’s got Perplex, which will benefit any team – but he’s got to give up some life to get to it. He ramps it up mid dial, with a respectable 9av/2dm that can become 10/2 or 9/3 with self Perplex, but again, he’s losing life to be effective. For the most part Clark isn’t an attacker – he’d be great Mastermind fodder, and decent filler for a team, though (here come those dreaded three words) for the points, you can do better (see above).

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb003 DIANA PRINCE (AE)
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 32
Keywords: Amazon, Politician, Trinity
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal5915158152681627817177171KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Alter Ego: Wonder Woman: Give Diana Prince a power action and replace this character with #018 Wonder Woman on its orange starting line. Existing action tokens from this character, as well a action tokens and pushing damage for this action are applied to the replacement Wonder Woman. If replaced, no victory points are awarded for this character and the replacement Wonder Woman is considered to be 32 points for all game effects

Well, this dial must represent Diana's softer, more passive side - she's certainly not snapping any necks with a starting one damage. Support signals she's a hugger, not a slugger and for some it's a staple power. Keep in mind, it's 32 points spent on someone who's job is to stay out of combat, in a combat based game. She may be available for some battlefield triage, but she won't be contributing much other than healing the occasional figure that pushed or was grazed. If she's able to transform (particularly late game where the shared Defend could help sagging dv's) it'd be another story, and another rating.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb004 R LEAGUE ASSASSIN
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 22
Keywords: League of Assassins
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal69162691626816188171KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODamage - Minion:Training from the Elite: When a friendly character with the League of Assassins keyword and a higher point value is within 8 squares, League Assassin can use Exploit Weakness

What kind of looks like an otherwise ordinary Street Thug, turns into a true threat with the minion power in play. Exploit Weakness on a 22 point figure is outstanding, but because you can't guarantee it will see use...

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb005 R AMAZON
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 2 :bolt:
Points: 50
Keywords: Amazon Warrior
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal81017389172891817917278162KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODamage - Minion: Sisters United: When a friendly character with the Amazon keyword and a higher point value is within 8 squares, Amazon can use Willpower and modifies her attack value by +1.

Great Hera! Look at that dial! When I mentioned with Clark, you could do better for the points this is what I was talking about. A 19 D up close, with 3 clicks of charge, and Super Strength to allow 5 damage… on a 50 point generic? Sure her damage drops mid dial, but she picks up an 18dv Defend click making her a team player. The icing on the cake is the minion power: attack bumps and Willpower – just add an Amazon (Phillipus or Wonder Woman should do the trick). If you can take advantage of that minion power – add a :d-indomitable:

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb006 R CHECKMATE PAWN (WHITE)
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 19
Keywords: Checkmate, Spy
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal781517815177141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODamage - Battlefield Promotion: When Checkmate Pawn (White) KOs or critical hits a character, after the action is resolved but before pushing damage is applied you may replace this character with BB #007 Checkmate Knight (White) on its starting click. If replaced, existing action tokens from this character are applied to the replacement Checkmate Knight (White) and victory points are not awarded for this character.

White Pawn, is this set’s E Morlock, a 19 point Plasticity piece that makes for an average harasser. Unlike the Morlock, the Pawn has 6 range, but nothing to really write home about. This is standard team filler, good mostly for forcing a player to deal with it. Most opponents will likely knock out the Pawn, rather than Outwit the Plasticity to break away. Used properly it could buy a round, but don’t expect it to do much damage. In summary - an easy 19 points for your opponent.

:d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb007 E CHECKMATE KNIGHT (WHITE)
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 29
Keywords: Checkmate, Spy
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal891628916288152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

White Knight adds a lot for a 10 point bump: +2 range, Enhancement, Outwit & some KO protection in the form of Super Senses. This is a cheap support piece at its finest. It may not knock out anyone on their own, but Knight makes up for it by helping it’s teammates KO plenty. Keep in mind Enhancement works with duo RANGED attacks.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb008 R PARADEMON GRUNT
Team: none
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 33
Keywords: Apokolips, Soldier
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal89152881528815177141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOMinion: Hordes of Apokolips When a friendly character with the Apokolips keyword and a higher point value is within 8 squares, Parademon Grunt modifies its attack and speed values by +1.

Grunt. Is that his name or what he does? In any event, there’s not much to add here other than this is an excellent low cost Willpower Taxi. It has the Minion ability, which may not see much play, and while the mid dial Incapacitate could prove handy, with those AVs there’s no guarantee hitting. Before you use this figure to Charge ask yourself, “can I shoot it?” An 8 Charge is about the same as Grunt’s 4 :bolt: range. 3 shields may be a bit much if you have no one for him to carry into battle, but he will help your grounded troops get into the fight quick.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb009 R THE ATOM AND HAWKMAN
Team: JLA
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 120
Keywords: Justice League of America, Scientist, Warrior
m-winga-duod-normalg-normal10111839101838101738917381017289162710163KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODefense - Big Target or Little Target: (non-optional) The Atom and Hawkman possess Toughness. Before making an attack which would affect The Atom and Hawkman, the attacking player chooses Super Senses or Invulnerability. The Atom and Hawkman use the chosen power instead of Toughness for this attack.

It's interesting to note, that in most every Modern Age set, game design has included some pretty powerful attackers in the commons slots. Ultimate Ironman & Captain America, Out of The Shadows Batman, Hercules & Ms. Marvel, etc. With B&tB the Atom and Hawkman are the common, go-to attack piece. They're a duo, which will instantly put some off playing them, and they lack opening move and attack, which may well alienate another large number of players.

However, Bird man and bird-mite are common and have decent stats at a reasonable price. A duo attack holding a Heavy Object will net 7 damage (pre-reducers) and front loaded Outwit should go a long way to making that damage stick. 18 defense with Invulnerability or Super Senses gives the pair options by forcing an opponent to make "Sophie's Choice" - will you deal guaranteed damage (even if it is reduced) or evade the attack? Pushed further down the dial, the duo ability becomes less prominent. Exploit Weakness and CCE give options, but at this point :a-duo: is just icing on the cake. Dare I say that this figure is worth the points without duo ability? There I said it.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb010 JASON BLOOD
Team: Mystics
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 44
Keywords: Mystical
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal59161581614815147151KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Alter Ego Etrigan: Give Jason Blood a power action and replace this character with a B&B #039 Etrigan on its orange starting line. Existing action tokens from this character, as well as action tokens and pushing damage for this action are applied to the replacement Etrigan. If replaced, no victory points are awarded for this character and the replacement Etrigan is considered to be 44 points for all game effects.

Just like Ray & Carter don't need the :a-duo: Jason Blood is worth the points without the AE. I imagine this figure will seriously frustrate some players – hiding in hindering with his 19dv at range, PC’ng misses to hits and vice versa. With 1 damage and no range he’s not much of a threat and yet no one will want to hit him and take feedback damage. Another low cost support figure who greatly benefits a team, but won’t be winning battles on his own.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb#011 E LEAGUE ELITE
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 33
Keywords: League of Assasins, Martial Artist
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89161881618101628915178142KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODamage - Vital Strike: If League Elite's Damage is 5 or more when resolving the attack, deal 1 penetrating damage to the target after resolving the initial attack

The League Elite brings the pain with a very sharp sword. With 1 damage, they'll want to use the B in B/C/F as often as possible, and they get the added benefit of dealing extra damage with a Vital Strike. Note - even if a figure makes an Impervious roll, and shrugs off the initial 5+ damage, they'll still take that additional 1 penetrating. This assassin lacks any defense other than stealth, and could likely be removed as a threat before they get a chance to go all stabby-stabby on someone, but they any figure that can do 6+ penetrating damage in one attack is a threat only a fool would ignore.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb012 E AMAZON OF BANA-MIGHDALL
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 2 :bolt:
Points: 19
Keywords: Amazon Warrior
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal791627816271015179152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Battle Fury Warning! This figure has Battle Fury on its first two clicks, which means it can’t use ranged attacks or be carried into combat (make sure you don’t do it, but more importantly, make sure your opponent doesn’t either).

The figure itself is capable of hitting hard, between Super Strength and Close Combat Expert the Amazon can dish out an average 3+ damage with a 9av. Her defense is completely lackluster however, and this piece is really nothing short of a mosquito – easily removed with one shot but an annoyance nonetheless. Battle Fury might protect against Mind Control, but in all honesty, the Orange Rage keeps her from being a true team player. If she were any more expensive, she'd have a lower rating, as it is she gets:

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb013 R CHECKMATE PAWN (Black)
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 25
Keywords: Checkmate, Soldier
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal881617915178141KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKODamage - Battlefield Promotion: When Checkmate Pawn (Black) KOs or critical hits a character, after the action is resolved but before pushing damage is applied you may replace this character with BB #014 Checkmate Knight (Black) on its starting click. If replaced, existing action tokens from this character are applied to the replacement Checkmate Knight (Black) and victory points are not awarded for this character.

Black Pawn is another figure featuring Battlefield Promotion, and for 25 points, makes for a decent Stealthy LoF blocker. Toughness and 6 range adds some value, but 1 damage won’t mean much without some Enhancement or Perplex adding to it. This Pawn lives up to its name as a sacrificial lamb, meant to tie up an opponent for a round, maybe two – while the rest of the team repositions or attacks.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb014 E CHECKMATE KNIGHT (BLACK)
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 8 :bolt:
Points: 35
Keywords: Checkmate, Soldier
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal9917281016299152KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Move over Sinister Shield Sniper, Black Knight brings some ranged pain with 4 dm from RCE, a full dial of Toughness, and a smidge of run-and-gun in the middle. Not too shabby, but not the best of the Checkmate figures (that honor goes to White Knight). Average attack of 9 is okay, but it’s that 8 range that makes this piece a selling point. Black Knight could very easily hang bang as a clean-up piece, finishing off the figures the rest of your force weaken.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal:

=========================================================
bb015 E PARADEMON DRILL SERGEANT
Team: none
Range: 4 :bolt:
Points: 62
Keywords: Apokolips, Soldier
m-winga-normald-normalg-normal891638916388152881528914389143KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO

Darkseid's Motivational Techniques (non-optional) When an adjacent friendly character makes an attack, modify that character's damage value by +1 for that attack. If the attack misses all targets, deal the attacking character 1 unavoidable damage.

Parademon Sergeant could make for another fine taxi, but beware the non-optional Motivational Techniques - you could end up shooting yourself in the foot. For 62 points, the figure has some middling av’s & dvs. Damage is decent with the ability to crack Invulnerability, or use Incap. However, Parademon still has the 8 charge/4 range conundrum – useful for busting stealth or avoiding a hindering terrain dv bump. A semi-long dial padded with Toughness makes it likely he won’t get one-shot, but rather two-shot. Stick to fighting other generics with him, and he might do okay.

:d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal::d-normal:

Silver Lantern
04/14/2010, 10:09
Agreed that the rookie Amazon is insane.

I think Diana may deserves 3 stars though for support an a 9 AV alone at 32 points.

Doombot 3.1
04/14/2010, 10:14
Jason Blood deserves a higher rating. Cheap PC is extremely valuable in sealed tournaments.

archaon02
04/14/2010, 10:25
Just to make sure it's clear, Hawkman and the atom don't choose whether to use super senses or invulnerability, the player attacking them chooses. I don't ever see a situation where a player attacking with psychic blast would give them the option of super senses.

Mr. Pilkington
04/14/2010, 10:26
Thanks 'm0use!

I can't wait to get my figures today. The low cost commons surprised me a bit, but then with the shift away from feats and bystanders you need figures that can fill gaps. I have to get a Parademon army. It is a moral imperative.

Mr. Pilkington
04/14/2010, 10:29
Just to make sure it's clear, Hawkman and the atom don't choose whether to use super senses or invulnerability, the player attacking them chooses. I don't ever see a situation where a player attacking with psychic blast would give them the option of super senses.

That is true, but since the power says that they possess Toughness then a PB attack would have cut right through anyway. I like it as a quirky mechanic. If you target the duo with 2 damage you can opt SS and not need a crit hit to hurt them. I almost would have wanted the target Atom option to be SS+ES/D (he's so tiny!) but that might have inflated the cost too much.

A_Higher_Level
04/14/2010, 10:30
I like the ratings. I look forward to the tournaments.

C-Dog
04/14/2010, 10:30
Excellent analysis as always, M0use. I personally would have given the Checkmate Knights lower ratings, just because those super-short dials scare the heck out of me. Otherwise, we are in total agreement.

C

cramcompany
04/14/2010, 10:30
good review!

Hero_guy
04/14/2010, 10:31
Good job Anony! However I'd say that any figure that is >25pts should automatically start with a 3 rating. They are the ones you will always turn to for filling up that last slot on your team when you've got 30+ pts to spare. As such, they will see play on pretty much every team. So unless they are completely useless, they shouldn't get under a 3 ranking, imo.

As such I would agree that Diana should get a high ranking. In hindering she starts with an 18 def from range and she has a 9av with Support. Hitting her for the average 3 dmg will put her on a 17def w/ ESD and her AE sp.

neilr1
04/14/2010, 10:43
love these articles! thanks!

anonym0use
04/14/2010, 10:52
Good job Anony! However I'd say that any figure that is >25pts should automatically start with a 3 rating. They are the ones you will always turn to for filling up that last slot on your team when you've got 30+ pts to spare. As such, they will see play on pretty much every team. So unless they are completely useless, they shouldn't get under a 3 ranking, imo.

As such I would agree that Diana should get a high ranking. In hindering she starts with an 18 def from range and she has a 9av with Support. Hitting her for the average 3 dmg will put her on a 17def w/ ESD and her AE sp.


To me the problem with Diana is she's not doing anything until you take damage.

Not having a ranged attack (or ranged support power like Jason Blood) makes the ES/D nearly irrelevant. She doesn't really help other teammates KO figures - unless they're injured at which point she needs to be adjacent to heal, and the figure getting the healing needs to be not adjacent to an opposing figure.

She's not awful, she's just not going to be KO'ng opponents the way Clark or Bruce (or Checkmate agents) could.

anonym0use
04/14/2010, 10:55
Jason Blood deserves a higher rating. Cheap PC is extremely valuable in sealed tournaments.

To me, a range value would set him over the bump. I agree, PC is invaluable, and you should highly consider him, but perhaps not at the expense of building around him and leaving other attack pieces out. Compared to the rest of the set JB won't be making too many KOs on his own.

Iceman425
04/14/2010, 10:58
Jason Blood is one of the better support pieces in some time. Mystics and PC for 44 pts? For Team Building he's fantastic but, I definitely understand the rating in a sealed set that is few to none on WC's

anonym0use
04/14/2010, 11:03
Good job Anony! However I'd say that any figure that is >25pts should automatically start with a 3 rating. They are the ones you will always turn to for filling up that last slot on your team when you've got 30+ pts to spare. As such, they will see play on pretty much every team. So unless they are completely useless, they shouldn't get under a 3 ranking, imo.

As such I would agree that Diana should get a high ranking. In hindering she starts with an 18 def from range and she has a 9av with Support. Hitting her for the average 3 dmg will put her on a 17def w/ ESD and her AE sp.

I don't know. At that point I may as well switch from a 5 rating to a 3. At least with this system you can compare and contrast the benefit of the under 25'ers to help decide between someone like a League Assassin or Amazon of Bana-Mighdall.

anonym0use
04/14/2010, 11:06
Just to make sure it's clear, Hawkman and the atom don't choose whether to use super senses or invulnerability, the player attacking them chooses. I don't ever see a situation where a player attacking with psychic blast would give them the option of super senses.

Thanks. It wasn't quite clear to me. I still think they are a strong figure. I'd have rated them 5 :d-indomitable:'s but they have no STARTING move and attack. They are one of the few figures in the set to start with an 11 AV which should not be discounted. There's only 13 or so 11+ AVs, to be found, and IIRC 3 are chases, while the majority of the rest (7+) are SRs.

Mr. Cranberry
04/14/2010, 11:16
Just to make sure it's clear, Hawkman and the atom don't choose whether to use super senses or invulnerability, the player attacking them chooses. I don't ever see a situation where a player attacking with psychic blast would give them the option of super senses.

Well, if the player has Shellhead on the Duo then they may opt for Senses.

Also, H&A could choose their DV power if they're receiving splash damage from a friendly characters attack.

Superclone
04/14/2010, 11:27
You the man mouse. Was waiting for this one.

Spidersense
04/14/2010, 11:48
I am confused on the Atom/Hawkman Toughness. If I understand right, Toughness would only be there for feat usage? Since the attacker picks the power, and the Special Power is non-optional, when would Toughness in those opening slots ever have a meaning? I am probably missing something obvious.

rollinsolo
04/14/2010, 11:51
I saw this posted before but I Think Etrigen deserves one more shield. He is just too good and too cheap. The 50 point Amazon will make alot of teams I'm guessing.

Great article, thanks for the time.

Iceman425
04/14/2010, 11:54
I am confused on the Atom/Hawkman Toughness. If I understand right, Toughness would only be there for feat usage? Since the attacker picks the power, and the Special Power is non-optional, when would Toughness in those opening slots ever have a meaning? I am probably missing something obvious.

A few thoughts on this...

If the opponent has a Poison figure who walks up to Hawkman, then the Toughness would kick in.

Since it's not an actual "Attack" roll the damage would cut right through the SP unless it was worded to have Perma Toughness.

Knockback Damage would also apply here I would think.

Lastly, and most importantly, it means that the Toughness exists even if the attacker chooses Supersenses instead of INV. So that 1 Click Damage Value POG of yours can't ping the duo for 1 click. And it will reduce any damage that does get through the Supersenses.

The_Atom
04/14/2010, 12:02
[B]Please note, While rumors have it that AE figures come packed with their costumed counterpart there’s no guarantee this is the case (and logically, this would make those Uncommons distinctly more Common). Likewise, a player will be lucky to pull two corresponding Battlefield Promotion figures to play together in a sealed event. Players lucky enough to do so, should consider their rating slightly (one shield?) higher.

.

I opened more than a case, an I can tell you that I did not once receive a full pair in a single brick. On the otehr hand, I got like 6 Jason Bloods and only 1 Etrigan.

Mr. Cranberry
04/14/2010, 12:05
Lastly, and most importantly, it means that the Toughness exists even if the attacker chooses Supersenses instead of INV. So that 1 Click Damage Value POG of yours can't ping the duo for 1 click. And it will reduce any damage that does get through the Supersenses.

Actually the power states they use Inv or Senses in place of Tough. So that pog can ding you for 1 damage.

Using Tough for KnockBack would only apply in the use of Forceblast and not the result of Doubles since Tough would be gone for the attack.

Iceman425
04/14/2010, 12:13
Actually the power states they use Inv or Senses in place of Tough. So that pog can ding you for 1 damage.

Using Tough for KnockBack would only apply in the use of Forceblast and not the result of Doubles since Tough would be gone for the attack.

I didn't see the last line.

So the Perma-Toughness is very situational indeed. Poison and Force Blast Knockback damage.

Any other instances?

This lowers my opinion of this figure personally. I hate when a 1 damage figure or POG can, unassisted, do damage to a character like Hawkman.

soygi
04/14/2010, 12:14
clark needs a better rating for what he can do

Mr. Cranberry
04/14/2010, 12:18
So the Perma-Toughness is very situational indeed. Poison and Force Blast Knockback damage.

Any other instances?

Possibly certain Battlefields & EDs could activate it.

Certain SPs that give a click of damage, not unavoidable, to a character.

Things like Nightshade's SP and the like.

Iceman425
04/14/2010, 12:22
Possibly certain Battlefields & EDs could activate it.

Certain SPs that give a click of damage, not unavoidable, to a character.

Things like Nightshade's SP and the like.

Yeah, any case where damage is automatically applied through a game mechanic or power...Energy Explosion if they are not the target of the attack...

My reaction may have been a little harsh. The Atom wouldn't have Toughness, so if he is the one trying to avoid the attack on the DUO figure, I suppose I can see why the damage would stick.

It actually is a pretty cool use of a power. I take my previous comment back.

wintremute
04/14/2010, 12:38
quick note: your AZS quote says "Crisis". I'm not sure if you left it like that on purpose, or if you want to change it to "Brave and the Bold". I tried to send this by PM, but that didn't work.

kingpotato
04/14/2010, 13:00
Good job Anony! However I'd say that any figure that is >25pts should automatically start with a 3 rating. They are the ones you will always turn to for filling up that last slot on your team when you've got 30+ pts to spare. As such, they will see play on pretty much every team. So unless they are completely useless, they shouldn't get under a 3 ranking, imo.

This doesn't make any sense to me... I own plenty of pieces that deserve less and on top of that with more and more minion pieces showing up you should be able to find more creative ways to fill your team without a throwaway 30 pt fig.

I am really confused by these ratings. Why were you scared to throw out a 1 :d-indomitable: or a 5 :d-indomitable:. I understand you say they are compared to the crisis set, but I feel the League Assassin deserves a 1 :d-indomitable:. Seems like you are just setting up 22 points to get wiped. The only use I see is for masterminds with the off chance that it will land a shot. So maybe in that instance it is a decent piece, but compared to Crisis it is a definite 1 :d-indomitable:. This would also mean the Checkmate pawn white should be lowered to a 0 :)

On the other end of the scale is the Atom and Hawkman. At 120 pts this is a great piece. I agree with you assessment, but looking back at the Crisis set, this piece could compete well and deserve a 5 :d-indomitable:. I also feel the Amazon deserves a 5:d-indomitable:. I think a team of Amazons with a Leader (one of the ones you suggested would be fine) would be a fearsome force indeed.

I appreciate you sharing your assessments and agree with most, but don't be afraid to spread out those ratings a little more.

VenomDaBomb
04/14/2010, 13:02
My top 5 for a sealed game are

AMAZON - just a beast for the points
BRUCE WAYNE- nice DV and outwit for not much plus if you can change him into bats all the better!
JASON BLOOD- Mystic and PC yes!
CHECKMATE KNIGHT(Wth) nice options
DIANA PRINCE - love support!

I don't agree with a 4 on atom & hawk man no move and attack up front and no range meas your walking. since your opponent picks the power if they have penetrating they will pick invun and if not SS so really you would never get damage reduction maybe the lucky roll but not even half the time the AV are good its not like its a wasted figure i just don't think it would be a good center piece.

penancefan8
04/14/2010, 13:16
doing a tournament at 3 looking forward to to hawkman and atom and the others new duos

Grategy
04/14/2010, 13:49
Did you take into account the fact that Jason Blood is 44 points with prob control AND Mystcs team ability? Throw him on for wild card teams... Pretty cheap and still useful mystics.

The_Atom
04/14/2010, 14:02
Talia is one of my favorite pices in the set. Supes and Bats allies with outwit AND mastermind!? gamebreaker, IMO.

AgentP
04/14/2010, 14:02
Very good article indeed. Thanks!

jackstar7
04/14/2010, 14:11
I'm REALLY looking forward to each of the articles.

These are one of my favorite parts of a new set.

Thanks for keeping up the great work!

Owlman
04/14/2010, 14:13
Did you take into account the fact that Jason Blood is 44 points with prob control AND Mystcs team ability? Throw him on for wild card teams... Pretty cheap and still useful mystics.

The wildcard thing is useful in constructed, but theseratings are for sealed. I'm pretty sure the only wildcard in the set is Mikron, and Iwouldn't play him to try and get mystics abuse.

RavenProject
04/14/2010, 14:15
Did you take into account the fact that Jason Blood is 44 points with prob control AND Mystcs team ability? Throw him on for wild card teams... Pretty cheap and still useful mystics.
There's only one Wild Card in BatB: Mikron O'Jeneus.

-J

anonym0use
04/14/2010, 14:22
I do love discussion, specifically about Hawkman and Atom.

Here we have one player who thinks they're a 5

On the other end of the scale is the Atom and Hawkman. At 120 pts this is a great piece. I agree with you assessment, but looking back at the Crisis set, this piece could compete well and deserve a 5 :d-indomitable:. I also feel the Amazon deserves a 5:d-indomitable:. I think a team of Amazons with a Leader (one of the ones you suggested would be fine) would be a fearsome force indeed.


Here we have someone who thinks they're a 3


I don't agree with a 4 on atom & hawk man no move and attack up front and no range meas your walking. since your opponent picks the power if they have penetrating they will pick invun and if not SS so really you would never get damage reduction maybe the lucky roll but not even half the time the AV are good its not like its a wasted figure i just don't think it would be a good center piece.

I'm willing to split the difference at 4. :) Playing this duo effectively will be a challenge for some, I suppose. If you don't have TK for a first strike, the best bet may be to force an opponent to get 2 tokens on them with your other attackers before swooping in with H&A (at which point you push for big damage). I definitely wouldn't use them aggressively.

Vevilaughs
04/14/2010, 14:46
I would have to agree with your assessment of Hawkman and Atom at 4 shields.

The lack of move and attack is not a huge problem, but if you add into them that they cannot be carried you most likely are going to have to push to attack from that first click.

This means that if your attack misses, you could be a huge sitting goose.

A saving grace is that there are cheaper pieces he can carry with him that can become a threat. He pairs up nicely with the 50 pt amazon and you still have room for other support. The synergy between his Outwit and her Charge is amazing for the points.

Spider-Bat
04/14/2010, 15:18
Having faced 4 Hawkman/Atom duos over 6 games (2 sealed events) last night/this morning, I can say that they are NOT worth their points. they were not a threat in any game I faced them in (admittedly, one group of games involved the Flash/superman Duo teamed with Max Mercury and the R League Assassin). Tie them up with any cheap figure and they need to waste actions killing them. I would give Hawkman/Atom :d-indomitable: :d-indomitable: :d-indomitable: at best, and I would almost never play them (unless that was the only non generic I pulled).

And the R League Assassin worked wonders, tying up Hawkman/Atom, blocking LoS, KO'ing Damian, etc.

As useful as reviews are, once you play the set, you'll figure it out for yourself.

Spider-Bat
04/14/2010, 15:25
Talia is one of my favorite pices in the set. Supes and Bats allies with outwit AND mastermind!? gamebreaker, IMO.In sealed, you NEED to pull someone for her to use Master Mind with, and it's probably going to be someone with no Damage reducers and only 3 or 4 clicks of life. In constructed, you can build around it; sealed... not so much.

Owlman
04/14/2010, 15:41
The reviews here are pretty fair, although there are acouple of 3's I might have personally swapped out for 4's. I really love Bruce in this set though, as his high defense and CR make him a pain to deal with. I'd throw him into the fray and take my chances, just pick your target wisely when you do so.

Toughest 1 there is
04/14/2010, 15:47
Nice review Mouse. To be quite honest, I hate the set. I hate it. Plain and simple. I can't even give a good reason, it's just not the same Heroclix to me anymore. I bought a single booster today and I just don't like it at all.

Spider-Bat
04/14/2010, 16:14
I am really confused by these ratings. Why were you scared to throw out a 1 :d-indomitable: or a 5 :d-indomitable:. I understand you say they are compared to the crisis set, but I feel the League Assassin deserves a 1 :d-indomitable:. Seems like you are just setting up 22 points to get wiped. The only use I see is for masterminds with the off chance that it will land a shot. So maybe in that instance it is a decent piece, but compared to Crisis it is a definite 1 :d-indomitable:. This would also mean the Checkmate pawn white should be lowered to a 0 :)

On the other end of the scale is the Atom and Hawkman. At 120 pts this is a great piece. I agree with you assessment, but looking back at the Crisis set, this piece could compete well and deserve a 5 :d-indomitable:. I also feel the Amazon deserves a 5:d-indomitable:. I think a team of Amazons with a Leader (one of the ones you suggested would be fine) would be a fearsome force indeed.

I guess ti comes down to play style, as I would MUCH rather run multiple R LoA guys than field Hawkman/Atom For me, Hawkman/Atom just don't carry their weight. Outwit is always useful, especially in Sealed, but there's enough Stealth that it's not as great as it usually is. While I can understand (not agree with though) a 4 :d-indomitable: rating, a figure that needs to push to get to Move and Attack just can't rate 5 :d-indomitable: for me, especially in Sealed.

And maybe I missed something, but why do people keep mentioning Crisis? Isn't the whole idea of B&B Sealed to use B&B boosters? They're not going to be mixing with Crisis figures for at least a few weeks.

vamroc
04/14/2010, 16:24
Sorry,
Gotta give League Assassin :d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: awesome sculpt it really conveys a sense of fear.
Darkseid masterminding to Wizard Shazam OMFG
Extant will make you think twice about playing multiples of anything

Victorious0
04/14/2010, 16:53
I cannot wait to play Bruce Wayne, if only for this:
"YOU WANNA GET NUTS? C'MON, LET'S GET NUTS!"

kfrog71
04/14/2010, 18:01
I always love these reviews and generally agree with most of what is said which holds true for these also!

My only contribution would be to give a little more love to the Amazon of Bana-Mighdall. I think the damage potential (with good attack values for the possibility of an actual hit) for her point level is pretty darned good! I understand her drawbacks but, for 19 points, I'm ok with all of them.

I understand the 2:d-indomitable: rating but I would go higher with her personally. She is a very well-spent 19 points in a sealed tournament.

Anyhoo, Thanks for the reviews!

JackAssterson
04/14/2010, 18:17
YOU'RE NOT AZS!

Not that it mattered. Good work.

Firestar07
04/14/2010, 18:44
Great write up

kingpotato
04/14/2010, 19:09
Sorry,
Gotta give League Assassin :d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable: awesome sculpt it really conveys a sense of fear.
Darkseid masterminding to Wizard Shazam OMFG
Extant will make you think twice about playing multiples of anything

I think the elite version of the assassin looks way better (red cloak) and has a better dial. Save those shields for that fig. :classic:

DrugSex
04/14/2010, 21:06
I think that the Clark Kent deserves :d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal: because yeah he needs to be pushed but he have 1 more life click than Bruce. And the perplex is awesome.

And WW :d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal::d-normal: (don't need to explain why) :p

Jason Blood should have :d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-indomitable::d-normal: too i think.

Owlman
04/14/2010, 21:43
I want to see how the rest of the set compares. I want it nowwwwwwwwwwwwww. [/Veruca Salt]

klaw1
04/14/2010, 22:44
Great as usual mouse I think my to get list starts with the ninja's not a big DC collector, but will get some league of assassins.

bludd72
04/14/2010, 22:57
good read m0use! appreciate the work :)

tyroclix
04/14/2010, 23:11
I want to see how the rest of the set compares. I want it nowwwwwwwwwwwwww. [/Veruca Salt]

Can't fight the seether!
Can't fight the seether!
Can't fight the seether!
I can't see her till I'm foaming at the mouth!

Wait, that's not the same song.

Never mind...

pLiCk
04/15/2010, 00:29
bought 3 boosters today and the first one i saw was bruce wayne, but no batb batman so hes useless till then.is there a batb list out there yet?

BATMANISBRUCEWAYNE
04/15/2010, 00:59
Yeah NECA\WIZKIDS already has the whole set up online on their Official Website for all to see :)

konasavage
04/15/2010, 06:12
Great read, helpful as always sir.

tidge
04/15/2010, 06:34
Thanks for the reviews!

It is important for readers to remember that these reviews are (supposed to be) focused on reviewing the figures in sealed play. This was something that Asz started to forget near the end of his tenure. (Metron with 2 stars in sealed play? Balderdash!)

As for these reviews, I have a hard time evaluating the figures without knowing the map rules (doesn't it offer some sort of uber-stealth?)

As for the reviews...the only figure I feel may be over-rated is the Bruce Wayne. It doesn't have any of the features of the popular "cheap outwitters" (stealth, range, Leap/Climb), so it may turn out that it's simply a piece that is either ignored or sniped.

anonym0use
04/15/2010, 07:40
I always love these reviews and generally agree with most of what is said which holds true for these also!

My only contribution would be to give a little more love to the Amazon of Bana-Mighdall. I think the damage potential (with good attack values for the possibility of an actual hit) for her point level is pretty darned good! I understand her drawbacks but, for 19 points, I'm ok with all of them.

I understand the 2:d-indomitable: rating but I would go higher with her personally. She is a very well-spent 19 points in a sealed tournament.

Anyhoo, Thanks for the reviews!


I think she's a better 19 points spent, than say the Checkmate Pawn. I used her in sealed last night, and she never dealt damage - I missed all of my attacks with her and her low defense always meant she was easily picked off. I even tried holding her in reserve, moving her in after an opponent was pushed - no dice. :confused:

anonym0use
04/15/2010, 07:44
Thanks for the reviews!

It is important for readers to remember that these reviews are (supposed to be) focused on reviewing the figures in sealed play. This was something that Asz started to forget near the end of his tenure. (Metron with 2 stars in sealed play? Balderdash!)

As for these reviews, I have a hard time evaluating the figures without knowing the map rules (doesn't it offer some sort of uber-stealth?)

As for the reviews...the only figure I feel may be over-rated is the Bruce Wayne. It doesn't have any of the features of the popular "cheap outwitters" (stealth, range, Leap/Climb), so it may turn out that it's simply a piece that is either ignored or sniped.


I just didn't take into account the map, for a number of reasons. I didn't have access to one, for starters. Second, the venues I atteneded didn't recieve prize support through one mishap or another - so no maps were available. I figure I can't be the only one who cracked boosters and didn't play on a new map. Finally, it's really difficult to factor in every single variable when reviwing so many figures in an extremely short amount of time.

Bruce is hit or miss - you'll either hit him, or you'll miss him. ;) His 10av looks nice though, compared to his plain clothes trinty counterparts.

SLVRSR4
04/15/2010, 11:30
I played a game last night. It was a 300 point game. We were playing for the Green Lantern special object. My team was Wizard Shazam, Diana Prince, Bruce Wayne, and Checkmate knight (Black). I didn't have the pawn to go with the knight or the Wonder Woman or Batman to go with their alter egos. My opponent was using Max Mercury, Brainiac, the Holiday Killer, and a Checkmate Pawn (White). All the figures that were used on both teams more than pulled their weight. This set is SOOOO fun! I eventually won after my opponent rolled several crit misses (One of which was after I had my Wizard Shazam use his omniscient probability control on a critical hit he rolled!)

I rolled a very clutch impervious roll at one point too! The Green Lantern is now mine!

DemonRS
04/15/2010, 12:39
One thing that occurs to me about the AE Diana that's pretty key..

She offers you someone who can hang back and be a relatively inexpensive healer for the first part of the game. And towards the end of the game when damage values becoem a bit lower, probably stands a good chance to get to her Ego swapping power..

That in mind. I can think of a number of games where my main attacker was defeated and all that was left was the paramedic.. aww.. end of game for me..

Not anymore..
Now paramedic takes some damage and boom.. wonder woman appears.. I can see my opponent mouth, "what the...."

Could be pretty game changing in terms of how a late game could go.. Actually all these AE pieces offer the potential to change how the late game is played.

HippieX
04/15/2010, 13:00
Great Reviews.

I agree with a few others I played last Night and Had Clark on my team for sealed. He is pretty awesome for the points. He got several kills and won a match for me. His preplex is pretty key to this set unless you pull some awesome attack players. Hishe toughness saved him many times. He even tied up metallo for a bit.

Clark is a 3 - 4 easy.

Ghost_Rider
04/15/2010, 15:25
I think you are severely underestimated Diana Prince. Back in the early days, Support was a must-have power, and with the sheer amounts of Hypersonic Speed in this set, she will be hugely useful.

Last night, I played in a sealed and used Black Adam/Shazam (both) with Diana and Max Mercury. I thought I was done in the first game when Brainiac & Luthor outwitted Adam and Shazam's defense and smacked them for five, but Diana kept those two alive so they could mop up the two Superman enemies and the rest of the force.

Would have happened the same in the second game, except Diana had terrible dice that time unfortunately.

In hindsight, I probably should have replaced Max for something else (I pulled Jason Blood and the second PC probably would have helped a lot). Heck, I also pulled The Demon, so I really probably should have just used Shazam, Demon, Blood, Diana, and filler to have a devastating three rerolls as well as some healing.

vamroc
04/15/2010, 15:44
I think the elite version of the assassin looks way better (red cloak) and has a better dial. Save those shields for that fig. :classic:

The Assassins are cheaper and have Exploit Weakness with a range of four plus I could put Armor Piercing on them and they'd still be cheaper than the Elites. In addition I could perplex up damage on The Assassins or just to be a jerk use ICWO + Oracle on them so one can have 4 damage with Exploit Weakness while the others have 3 damage.
I envision this as a pretty solid team
Ras Al Ghul (Icons) + ICWO
The Sensei
Oracle (Alpha)
The League Assassin + Armor Piercing
and your still under 300 points

Mr. Pilkington
04/15/2010, 17:30
After opening most of my two cases (held two boxes back for the sealed event) I found that I got 2 or 3 boxes that had Diana + Wonder Woman and a number of boxes with both Pawn and Knight of the same color. It seems like you have a slim chance of pulling off Battlefield Promotion or Alter Ego swapping in a sealed event. Diana was the only Alter Ego I got complete in on box though.

kfrog71
04/15/2010, 20:52
I think she's a better 19 points spent, than say the Checkmate Pawn. I used her in sealed last night, and she never dealt damage - I missed all of my attacks with her and her low defense always meant she was easily picked off. I even tried holding her in reserve, moving her in after an opponent was pushed - no dice. :confused:


That saddens me. I hope you were at least thinking of my comments while she was getting her butt kicked. I guess that's why you are writing the articles and I am reading them.

Or...maybe it's a dice issue! :p

DJMillag
04/15/2010, 22:48
I played THE ATOM AND HAWKMAN in a sealed tournament. OMG so good. This figure will frustrate anyone. Oh you hit him... he does not really get worse WHAT! 11 av 10, 10, 9, 10! AGAIN, 9, 10!! What... and always hitting for at least 3! and his defense does not drop too badly either. Always having toughness and then either Invulnerable or Super senses. And the duo attack. No one could stop him. I would personally give him 5 shields.

tidge
04/16/2010, 06:08
As for these reviews, I have a hard time evaluating the figures without knowing the map rules (doesn't it offer some sort of uber-stealth?)

Luckily the four map squares are placed in such a way that they have almost no impact on sealed BatB play. Unfortunately, I think they are going to become favorite spots for HoT Captain America to hide in (and 3xJimmy Woo to hide behind.)

UniqueLoginNamor
04/16/2010, 12:51
I take it you didn't like this set too much? Lot of low ratings. I like Diana. And Bana-Migh is Super Cheap. All in all you were fair though.

tyroclix
04/16/2010, 23:32
Just a quick review on pieces I have used:

Bruce Wayne - solid Outwitter. Limited in attack ability. I was too afraid to base someone with him (until late game) for fear someone would get the lucky roll and punch his lights out. As an Outwitter, his ability to push is key which makes up a little for his sorry movement (6 is awful).

Checkmate Pawn - a distraction you need to place carefully. Mine did little other than tie-down briefly a SR SHAZAM! (half). Offensively really weak.

doctor_x
04/20/2010, 11:45
I really wish that Atom & Hawkman had some range, ar at least an opening click of charge, but I do like them.

I think in Modern Age they are gonna be shot all to peices eventually as your meat sheild gets taken down.
Another post said they played well though?

The tombstone will give them one small chance to stay in the game to do something before they are ko'd at least.
I wouldn't use anything but the tombstone[as I don't have a Mjolnir]with them as their superstrength will get outwitted and then the object used against them since they have no range.

Most opponants will choose supersenses for them unless sporting PB that will ignore toughness, etc.

In Golden Age though, these guys are gonna shine-begging for nanobots on those last phasing clicks. You can nanobot back to their charging clicks then.

Spider-Bat
04/20/2010, 12:11
I've only seen one person do relatively well with Hawkman/Atom, and he had to struggle to make it to the last round. Their complete lack of Range or move and attack makes them sitting ducks (no pun intended), meaning you need to keep them back and use them as support until your scrubs have done damage. And at 120 points, that's just not a good idea.