H-SHW Comic Book TOC: APOCALYPSE vs. MAELSTROM

[DTM]

Hi all.

Its been a while since Ive done a comics related TOC, so I thought Id make use of the Power Scale Lists that we ALL had a hand in making, and set something up for us all to debate and participate in.

Pretty simple idea, 2 combatants engage one another on a completely neutral, planet-side, battlefield (ala Battleworld from Secret Wars) to Clash against one another, each winner (decided by your votes) moving on to the next Round, which finally a Grand Champion is crowned.

I give you this next of many matches to come:


APOCALYPSE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse_%28comics%29)

vs.

MAELSTROM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maelstrom_%28comics%29)


So, lets hear from you all on which of these two you think would win, and is deserving to move one step closer to our Final Match of the H-SHW Level TOC!!


Results


ROUND 1

Sinestro vs. Thor: Thor (10 - 1)
Beta Ray Bill vs. Wonder Woman: Beta Ray Bill (7 - 2)
Kurse (2X Thor) vs. Legion: Legion (5 - 4)
Allen The Alien (Original Form) vs. Eradicator: Eradicator (6 - 1)
Black Adam vs. Green Lantern (Alan Scott): Black Adam (10 - 0)
Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) vs. Green Lantern (Kyle Rayner): Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) (8 - 7)
Gladiator vs. Morg: Morg (4 - 1)
Drax (Power Gem) vs. Orion: Drax (Power Gem) (4 - 2)
Hulk (World War Hulk) vs. Quasar: Hulk (World War Hulk) (6 - 3)
Sentry vs. Zoom: Sentry (8 - 3)
Mon'el vs. Mongul: Mongul (4 - 3)
Mr. Majestic vs. Captain Marvel (Freddy Freeman): Mr. Majestic (5 - 1)
Circe vs. Green Lantern (Hal Jordan): Green Lantern (Hal Jordan)(5 - 5) - Winner Randomly Chosen
Adam Warlock (Post Annihilation) vs. Obsidian: Adam Warlock (Post Annihilation) (6 - 0)
Maelstrom vs. Superman: Maelstrom (7 - 4)
Silver Surfer (Pre Annihilation) vs. Theo Diggers: Silver Surfer (Pre Annihilation) (6 - 1)
Count Nefaria (Ionic Form) vs. Manchester Black: Count Nefaria (Ionic Form) (4 - 2)
Bizarro vs. Magog: Bizarro (6 - 3)
Miracleman vs. Ultraman: Ultraman (3 - 1)
Dr. Strange vs. Lobo: Lobo (7 - 2)
Cable (Full Power) vs. Wildfire: Cable (Full Power) (6 - 1)
Ravenous vs. Sabbac: Ravenous (4 - 3)
Jenny Quantum vs. Vulcan: Jenny Quantum (6 - 0)
Ares (Marvel) vs. Omni-Man: Omni-Man (6 - 0)
Abra Kadabra vs. Nova (Richard Rider): Abra Kadabra (5 - 4)
Loki vs. Nightmare: Loki (6 - 1)
Apocalypse vs. Starhawk: Apocalypse (7 - 2)
Deathurge vs. Hyperion (Supreme Power): Hyperion (Supreme Power) (6 - 1)
Hercules vs. Nero: Nero (7 - 0)
The Doctor (Jeroen Thornedike) vs. Waverider: Waverider (4 - 1)
General Zod (Russian) vs. Karnilla: General Zod (Russian) (4 - 3)
Martian Manhunter vs. Professor X (Ultimates): Martian Manhunter (7 - 0)

ROUND 2

Thor vs. Beta Ray Bill: Thor leads (7 - 3)
Hulk (World War Hulk) vs. Mr. Majestic: Hulk (World War Hulk) (6 - 6) - Winner Randomly Chosen
Silver Surfer (Pre Annihilation) vs. Bizarro: Silver Surfer (Pre Annihilation) (7 - 6)
Abra Kadabra vs. Apocalypse: Apocalypse (8 - 0)
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) vs. Ravenous (Annihilation): Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) (3 - 2)
Adam Warlock (Post Annihilation) vs. Martian Manhunter: Martian Manhunter (5 - 2)
Eradicator vs. Hyperion (Supreme Power): Hyperion (Supreme Power) (4 - 1)
Black Adam vs. Loki: Black Adam (6 - 0)
Morg vs. Lobo: Morg (4 - 0)
Drax (Power Gem) vs. Count Nefaria: Count Nefaria (4 - 1)
Captain Marvel (Billy Batson) vs. Cable (Full Power): Cable (Full Power) (4 - 4) - Winner Randomly Chosen
Maelstrom vs. General Zod: Maelstrom (6 - 0)
Ultraman vs. Omni-Man: Omni-Man (10 - 2)
Sentry vs. Mongul: Sentry (5 - 0)
Legion vs. Nero: Nero (5 - 0)
Jenny Quantum vs. Waverider: Waverider (4 - 4) - Winner Randomly Chosen

ROUND 3

Green Lantern (Hal Jordan) vs. Black Adam: Black Adam (6 - 1)
Martian Manhunter vs. Omni-Man: Martian Manhunter (5 - 4)
Morg vs. Nero: Morg (3 - 0)
Count Nefaria vs. Cable (Full Power): Count Nefaria (4 - 0)
Thor vs. Hulk (World War Hulk): Hulk (World War Hulk) leads (5 - 4)
Apocalypse vs. Maelstrom: ??????

[Q99]

Huh, Apocalypse is a *blob*. He controls his own molecular structure- while impaling him or ripping him apart will cause damage, stopping his heart will not.

Now, he's also largely energy based so Maelstrom might manage anyway, but he also has a nice variety of physical attacks so if he knows the score, ol' Poccy may have a nice shot.

[DTM]

Well, heart-stopping apparently isnt the only form of offense for Maelstrom, as he can apparently absorb near limitless kinetic energy (punches, blasts, etc.), all the while freezing Apoc in place in a seconds time.

[Q99]

The freezing's not too big, Apoc is a toughie and can teleport.

So... what can take him out? Besides the people who keep getting eliminated in the random selections :)

[DTM]

Does Apoc actually have mental powers for offense? If so, how likely or often does he do so in combat?

[Q99]

Hm... telekinesis, but I don't think telepathy. Not that I've ever seen.

[Grinner]

I've been thinking that Apocalypse was the best person left to deal with Maelstrom. Freeze him in place? He teleports. Stop his heart? Does he even have one?

[Gargantua]

Okay, so Maelstrom may have trouble affecting Apocalypse in some of his sneakier ways. Does Apocalyse have a way of stopping Maelstrom without resorting to a physical or energy attack that Maelstrom will simply be able to absorb? Because if he doesn't the end result will be the same. Maelstrom will keep absorbing anything Apocalypse throws at him until he's powerful enough to pound or blast Apocalypse into oblivion. If Apocalypse is smart, he'd avoid attacking Maelstrom at all, but that's just a stalemate so that'll never fly in a TOC. If they really have to try, then it will probably go to Maelstrom, unless Apoc does have a less direct way of beating him.

[DTM]

I've been thinking that Apocalypse was the best person left to deal with Maelstrom. Freeze him in place? He teleports. Stop his heart? Does he even have one?

True, but Maelstrom absorbs Apocs attacks and gets stronger due to them, so he could just pound Apoc down in the end by using Apocs own strength against him.

From Round 1 it sounded like the only way to beat Maelstrom is through mental attacks and maybe some magic, as he seems to be immune to most anything else (nice H-SHW, huh?) :p

[Q99]

I'd think Jenny Quantum could take him, 'delete' all that energy he has.

Circe would be a great foe against him too- try absorbing being turned into a duck!

[kontrol]

There are still a couple people that can still beat Maelstrom in my opinion. I'm not sure Apocalypse is one of them though.

[Q99]

J'onn and Cable are the best bets.

[kontrol]

Surfer has a shot as well, he could actually do some funky things with that Power Cosmic of his. Morg less so since he's not nearly as creative with it as Norrin is.

[Grinner]

Does Maelstrom breathe? Does he have internal organs?

[DTM]

Im pretty sure Maelstrom can survive in space unharmed, so not sure he needs to breathe really.

[DTM]

Well, I suppose if Apoc really has no reliable mental attacks, and its just physical and energy, then I have little choice but to vote for the nearly invincible Maelstrom for the win here.

[Magoogles]

I'll go the other way and vote for Apocalypse...something in his bag of abilities is bound to work

[DTM]

Well, what? I mean its not like Superman doesnt have a bag of tricks, yet he was slaughtered by Maelstrom.

[Q99]

Superman's heart could be stopped, though. I'm not sure if Apoc even has one and his molecular control would prevent it's stopping from being fatal anyway.

[Magoogles]

Apocalypse brings a more diverse array of abilities... and I think I voted for Superman to win that match as well b/c I thought he would eventually go for the more passive freeze breath.

[DTM]

Superman's heart could be stopped, though. I'm not sure if Apoc even has one and his molecular control would prevent it's stopping from being fatal anyway.

But as mentioned, Maelstrom doesnt need to stop Apocs heart to beat him, he can and apparently will just absorb anything Apoc hits him with, getting stronger in the process, and then Slamming Apoc in return.

As for Apoc and a more passive "freeze breath" type attack, does he even have one? I mean with prep Im sure he could build a stun ray, but without it, and no intel on Maelstrom, its not really something Apoc would have on him.

[Grinner]

He doesn't do it often, but I seem to recall Apocalypse doing the whole "phasing & solidifying" thing before. Hence my question about internal organs.

[kontrol]

Well, what? I mean its not like Superman doesnt have a bag of tricks, yet he was slaughtered by Maelstrom.

Wait so Superman can transmute matter? Duplicate the effects of Anti-Terrigen mist? Analyse bio-chemistry on the fly and immediately come up with a way to neutralize it?

No. He doesn't. So please tell me which one of superman's bag of tricks, short of freeze breath, would serve to help him against Maelstrom instead of boosting him? That was the problem, Superman's opening attack isn't freeze breath most of the time. That's what lost him the battle.

Look Maelstrom is far from unbeatable, if you can hit him with something he can't absorb (certain types of energy, telepathy, magic) you can beat him. Just because Superman can't do it doesn't mean others in this bracket can't. Hell Monica Rambeau could beat him 99% of the time. A.) She knows him B.) she can not be affcted by him. C.) She knows the type of energy to use to against him.

@Grinner, I'm relatively certain Maelstrom doesn't need to breathe. The Vision was a member of the Avengers when Maelstrom fought them. IIRC, the first time the trick worked somewhat, the next time it didn't. So I wouldn't put too much stock in that being highly effective.

[Gargantua]

Gueess I'll vote for Maelstrom to advance once more.

[Maniac_nmt]

@Grinner, I'm relatively certain Maelstrom doesn't need to breathe. The Vision was a member of the Avengers when Maelstrom fought them. IIRC, the first time the trick worked somewhat, the next time it didn't. So I wouldn't put too much stock in that being highly effective.

He is flesh and blood, as seen recently when he had his hands cut off. So, you could phase through him and slice him into fiddly bits that way.

Would Apocalypse do it is another matter.

[DTM]

Yes, thats my point, Apocs main form or way of attacking isnt phasing and slicing, its slamming and blasting.

And kontrol man, chill out dude, I was merely saying Superman is far from a one trick pony, and unlike Apoc here, actually has a form of attack that could actually defeat Maelstrom. :)

[DTM]

MAELSTROM - 2 votes
APOCALYPSE - 1 vote

[Grinner]

I'm going to tie it up.

Apocalypse to advance.

[DTM]

Mind if I ask how so? If its the cutting thing, that not being a first fighting tactic of Apocs, means that Maelstrom is going to be Plenty tough and strong by absorbing all of Apocs first wave (and possibly second and third waves) of attack. Going by whats been stated here so far, I just dont see anyone short of a mentalist, a reality warper or a mage taking Maelstrom down (I mean if it were so easy to cut Maelstrom, Supermans heat vision would have done so in Round 1 easy enough).

[Grinner]

Because Apocalypse isn't, by nature, a brawler. I believe he's going to figure out what's going on before Maelstrom is charged to the point of being able to take him out, and I think that he has enough varied attacks that he'll manage to pull it off. And the fact that he has powers that will allow him to bypass Maelstrom's most incapacitating attacks (molecular control, teleportation) make me think that he'll have the time to do it.

[DTM]

I still dont see a way for Apoc to take Maelstrom down. He doesnt have the time to think and plan, he doesnt have his equipment to build something, he just has his own normal weaponry, which I fail to see that would actually bypass Maelstrom I Can Absorb Anything ability. Sure Apoc isnt some savage brawler, but turning his fists into maces or blocks and punching, or simply blasting away, is how he fights most often, and those forms of attack are only going to strengthen Maelstrom back (thats not even going into the Freeze thing Mael can do, sure Apoc can teleport away, but once he gets nearby again hes once again Frozen and helpless).

[Magnito]

Because Apocalypse isn't, by nature, a brawler. I believe he's going to figure out what's going on before Maelstrom is charged to the point of being able to take him out, and I think that he has enough varied attacks that he'll manage to pull it off. And the fact that he has powers that will allow him to bypass Maelstrom's most incapacitating attacks (molecular control, teleportation) make me think that he'll have the time to do it.
Kinda what I was thinking too.

Apocalypse for me.

[DTM]

But how can he win, what tactic can Apoc use to hurt Maelstrom? 99% of Apocs attacks are physical, which Maelstrom will just absorb and get stronger for it (and thats if any of these attacks actually come to be, before Mael takes all the kinetic energy from Apoc, which he can apparently do in an instant, freezing him still).

[kontrol]

Maelstrom wins. He's not unbeatable, but Apocalypse doesn't have what it takes.

[kontrol]

Because Apocalypse isn't, by nature, a brawler. I believe he's going to figure out what's going on before Maelstrom is charged to the point of being able to take him out, and I think that he has enough varied attacks that he'll manage to pull it off. And the fact that he has powers that will allow him to bypass Maelstrom's most incapacitating attacks (molecular control, teleportation) make me think that he'll have the time to do it.

I'm curious as to which attack that will be. Cause most of the time Apocalypse does brawl and fight when challenged. It kind of goes with his whole 'survival of the fittest' world view.

[DTM]

I believe this match is still TIED.

[DTM]

Still tied....

Tell me about it. :p

[Cryomancer]

I'll break the tie, I dont think Apocalypse is the "person" to beat Maelstrom, wrong tactics for the most part. I'll vote Maelstrom