Initial Game Setup

[dolemite199]

I have a question regarding proper HC game setup.

Below is what I have understood to be correct.

The winner of the dice roll gets to choose which map he/she and their opponent will play on. The loser of the roll gets to determine which side of said map they play on. I assuming "side" means indoor or outdoor. Then the first player, i.e winner of the die rool, chooses his/her starting area. Follwed by the loser of the die roll choosing his/her starting area. If this is correct than how can shortboarding. i.e setting up adjacent, be done. Any assistance would be appreciated.

[Earnan]

The winner of the die roll gets to choose the map. This does not mean which double-sided sheet of paper, this means which side of that double-sided piece of paper. The loser then gets to choose their starting area, followed by the winner, who could then shortboard them.

The winner still deploys first, meanign the loser can deploy at the far end of their deployment zone to counter the shortboarding, which is what I do when someone trie it on me.

WarlordEarnan

[dolemite199]

Thanks!

[Funky Jett]

Originally posted by Earnan
The winner of the die roll gets to choose the map. This does not mean which double-sided sheet of paper, this means which side of that double-sided piece of paper. The loser then gets to choose their starting area, followed by the winner, who could then shortboard them.

WarlordEarnan

Is this the standard now? Our venue has always set up the way dolemite said (A wins the roll, B didn't) --

1) A picks the mapsheet
2) B picks the which map from the 2 on the sheet
3) A picks his starting side
4) B picks his starting side (and could shortboard A)

Earnan, if what you say is the standard, can you please direct me to the ruling? Thanks!

[Earnan]

Oh, halibut.

OK, Mr. Jett, I will do that... though it may take me a little while to find it... I'll post it or PM you with it, once I do find it...

And, it is in fact possible that I'm wrong...

WarlordEarnan

[Tsannik]

Yeah post it here... I know it's been discussed at length...

I've always though it was...

1) A picks the mapsheet and which side of the map
2) B picks his starting edge of the map
3) A picks his starting edge of the map and places his figures
4) B places his figures
5) tokens are placed
6) Tsannik wins

[Xanth]

This caused a lot of debate on the WK site and it ended up the way Earnan described (but don't believe him until you've heard it from Tsannik or Hero:p -note. joke carryover from another thread).

I'll let Earnan provide the actual ruling quote since I'm feeling lazy today and he's already started on it.

[Earnan]

Wow, I'm good.

With judicious use of the WK forum search engines, I found it

Posted by Dr. Gandalf on 9-24 in the WizKids Judges forum:

Current Rules..
Assuming 2 players, here are the current rules.

1. Both players roll 2D6, highest score is 1st Player.

2. 1st Player chooses the map (the sheet and "side" of the map he wants to play on) Basically in the Marvel Starter, he would decide the "Intersection" or the "mall".

3. 2nd Player chooses the deployment zone on the map he wants.

4. 1st player chooses the deployment zone on the map he wants. (We use a house rule that in 2 player games, you have to set up in the opposite deployment zone from your opponent.)

5. Place 6 objects in the center of the map, face down, 1st player draws one and places it face up, then the 2nd player does the same. Alternate until all objects are placed. (Use the standard rules for object placement) It's legal to substititue adventure pack objects of the sme weight (light or heavy) for an object token you're placing.

6. 1st Player deploys their figures in their deployment zone.

7. 2nd Player deploys their figures in their deployment zone.

8. 1st player begins the game.

Posted by Chapeau, also on 9-24:

Thanks Dr. G.!
Dr. Gandalf is entirely correct, and I'm glad to see he's been reading the rules for MW:DA...HC has starting areas instead of Deployment Zones. Thanks Dr. G. I know how hard it is to have at least three different rulebooks in your head, and I am really appreciative that you answer questions on the boards (and correctly, too!). Thanks a lot.

Chapeau

Sorry, there's no fancy HTML tagging and whatnot, but I'm on lunch, in a hurry, and couldn't do it anyway. :)

Sorry, Tsannik, no mention of the elusive "Tsannik wins" step. Must be a house rule... :)

Hope this helps, and I actually feel like I did something positive for once!
WarlordEarnan

edited to fix a typo, and to add the 'hope this helps bit', since I was too excited about knowing something that I hit post before I was done typing...

[Earnan]

Thanks, Xanth... you do wonders for my self-esteem :)

WarlordEarnan

[Tsannik]

Hmmm...


they must've updated and removed:
9. Tsannik wins

No wonder I've been losing.

Tsannik is borken

[Funky Jett]

Awesome response, Earnan! Thanks a bunch for your help! Shortboarding, here I come! ;)

[Xanth]

Should be an interestin newspaper article on Funky's untimely demise.:p

I'm not aware of too many (if any) places where they actually allow it.

[Earnan]

I allow it...

Mostly because it never turns out well for the shortboarder. Since he has to deploy first, the second player can just deploy as far away from them as possible.

This usually means that the shortboarder can't get close enough to do the massive damage they thought the would, and since the second player gets the second turn, they can usually jump on the shortboarding team. It's not pretty :)

That, and I have an irrational hatred of house rules. If it's in the rules, I let my players do it. But that's just me...

WarlordEarnan

[Funky Jett]

"4. 1st player chooses the deployment zone on the map he wants. (We use a house rule that in 2 player games, you have to set up in the opposite deployment zone from your opponent.)"

No such house rule where I play, just no one shortboards. Well... one guy did, and the other player was so shocked the judge had to announce it was legal. No one's tried it since.

[augiewan]

Originally posted by Earnan
That, and I have an irrational hatred of house rules. If it's in the rules, I let my players do it. But that's just me...

WarlordEarnan

You go Earnan!!! :) Woot woot!!!

augie "remembers last time that subject got ugly" wan

[TheEnigma]

Wow, I'm amazed that one never came up in our games. I like the old Warhammer 40K rule that the side with the lowest tactical rating had to place pieces first, so player 2 could react accordingly. Seems like the die roll should have the same effect, allowing the "winner" the advantage of strategic placement.

[dolemite199]

I appreciate the feedback from everyone.

Earnan wrote,

That, and I have an irrational hatred of house rules. If it's in the rules, I let my players do it. But that's just me...

I completely supprt your irrational hatred of house rules. They only further compound and confuse things. Thanks a lot for the whole break down on how starting a game works. Had the rule book been scrutinized better this would not be so confusing sometimes.

Thanks,

[Earnan]

The problem is that the HT core set rulebook is what got the updated set up thingy. If you only use Marvel expansions of the basic HeroClix game (I'm not sure when I'm going to get over that bitterness, I hold grudges... ;) ), then you may well have missed it.

And that's what I'm here for :)

WarlordEarnan

[CptBlood]

Player 1 can short board and then go first?! Is tht right?

The furthest Player 2 could put a character is 18 squares from Player one. If player one picks an outdoor semi-open map he can taxi over and EE their who army before he starts? And thats if player 2 had only 2 characters. 3rd and 4th characters are 17 away and 5th, 6th are 16 Squares away?!

In my venue its
Player 1 picks map, deployment zone, places first object, places characters first and goes first.

CptBlood

[Earnan]

That is correct. It was ruled to be true in September, by Chapeau in the WK Forums Judges board. Already posted the pertinent info :)

You would need an 8 move taxi and 10 range EE fig, of which there aren't many in the Marvel expansions to the basic HeroClix game (I'm not sure if I'm still bitter, or just like typing that now...)

Or vice-versa, but 8 move taxis are easier to find than 10 move taxis.

So you're left with V Blastaar, V Dr. Doom, and all Ultrons. A lot of points to devote to this trick, and you better hope you win the roll. I also don't know how devastating it will be, since you'd have a hard time boosting it (until Psylocke comes out). Of course, I'm talking a 300 point game, Marvel expansions only, the standard for tourneys at my Venue. Also, you may not be able to dram decent lines of fire, since everyone will most likely be bunched up and cowering in the far corner of their deployment zone.

Of course, my fiancee told me last night she's one a few games in tourneys shortboarding, and I had no idea she had, so what do I know? :)

WarlordEarnan