DC Illuminati

[The Rose]

My brother and I wanted to play a scenario to face the Illuminati. we've decided to make the DC counterparts that would face the team.

First, here is Aquaman. Fanboy? Yes. But I think it is a good representation of the character. You know, under fanboy circumstances.

Aquaman=Namor

V Aquaman
Team: No Affiliation
Range: 6 :bolt:
Points: 134
Keywords: Ruler, Atlantis, Illuminati
m-dolphin-transa-normald-normalg-normal1011183101117381018371017279172791726816368153KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOSpeed - Torrent: Aquaman may use Charge and Plasticity. Lines of Fire drawn to him when he occupies water terrain are considered to be blocked.
Attack - Trident of Poseidon: Aquaman may use Super Strength and Blades/Claws/Fangs. When Aquaman is within 4 squares of Water Terrain, he may use Pulse Wave as if he had a range of 8.
Defense - Revitalize: Aquaman may use toughness. When he occupies water Terrain, he may use Regeneration.
Damage - Telepathic Communication: Aquaman may use Perplex, but only on Aquatic Characters or characters which he shares a keyword with. When he does, he may target all friendly characters (including himself) that he has line of fire to.

[The Rose]

He is an aquatic trasporter. I can't get it to work.

[TopDog]

Who do you think would be the DC Illuminati?

We've talked about this before at our Venue. The criteria?
Very experienced heroes.
Someone who is willing to meet in secrecy and make decisions for others.
Leaders of other people.

Who we included:
Superman
Aquaman
Dr Fate
Alan Scott

Would not do it:
Flash
Batman
Green Arrow

[Troma99]

Who do you think would be the DC Illuminati?

We've talked about this before at our Venue. The criteria?
Very experienced heroes.
Someone who is willing to meet in secrecy and make decisions for others.
Leaders of other people.

Who we included:
Superman
Aquaman
Dr Fate
Alan Scott

Would not do it:
Flash
Batman
Green Arrow




So Would Alan Scott be the Government Connection? Like Their Tony Stark? BEcause If he's the Mystical one it seems like having Dr. Fate and Alan Would Be redundant.

I'd say Wonder Woman would be in there for her connection to the Greek Gods but...then again...She would probably oppose the idea of the group: So she'd be their Black Panther.


People I think:

Dr. Fate (Strange)
Aquaman
Swamp Thing (His Link With "The Green")
Wonder Woman (turns Down membership)




Then Again Wouldn't the quintessence fill the rule of the Illuminati.

[The Rose]

All four of the ones you mentioned:

Superman-Iron Man
Aquaman-Namor
Dr Fate-Dr. Strange
Alan Scott-Professor X
The Atom-Mr. Fantastic
Swamp Thing-Black Bolt

[The Rose]

Not entirely sure on my selection. Suggestions?

[The Rose]

I also have considered changing Swamp Thing directly to Poison Ivy. Something tells me that DC's version may not be as 'heroic' but people who are concerned for their own idea of what is best for earth.

[Darknesspwns]

so why no batman?
kinda seems right up his alley

[The Rose]

so why no batman?
kinda seems right up his alley

While he fights ruthlessly for what he believes in, he is all about human choice. I don't think he would join a group that would seem to override the choices of others.

[The Rose]

I've also considered losing Alan Scott for Captain Atom. Not a real 'counterpart' but he makes sense on the team.

[Amora's_best_friend]

Superman would never join an Illuminati. He's far too straight-laced.

I think it'd be something like this:

Oracle (or Batman)
Raven
Dr. Fate
Martian Manhunter
Amanda Waller
Swamp Thing
Black Adam
Phantom Stranger

[Darknesspwns]

so if batman is all about human choice why is it that he always has a contingency plan for if something goes wrong? for example the many plans to take out rouge heroes like supes with kryptonite ect. i honestly think batman would be a good fit for the team because when it comes down to it, he makes the right choice. even if it goes against other peoples wishes.

[Amora's_best_friend]

Ra's Al-Ghul could arguably be on the team too.

[Isran_Imrador]

Why not do somthing like this:

Zatanna - Dr Strange
Oracle - Mr Fantastic
Mera - Namor
Wonder Woman - Iron Man
Saturn Girl - Xavier
Starfire - Black Bolt

Something new and exciting...

[Amora's_best_friend]

Why not do somthing like this:

Zatanna - Dr Strange
Oracle - Mr Fantastic
Mera - Namor
Wonder Woman - Iron Man
Saturn Girl - Xavier
Starfire - Black Bolt

Something new and exciting...

Because it's totally out of character for the majority of those people you listed to ever be part of a secret society...

[TopDog]

Superman would never join an Illuminati. He's far too straight-laced.


Superman routinely erases peoples memories. Lois for example. He erased Batman and Dr Light's memories during Identity Crisis.
He's a perfect fit for an Illuminati.

[TopDog]

so if batman is all about human choice why is it that he always has a contingency plan for if something goes wrong? for example the many plans to take out rouge heroes like supes with kryptonite ect. i honestly think batman would be a good fit for the team because when it comes down to it, he makes the right choice. even if it goes against other peoples wishes.

Read Identity Crisis. You'll understand why Batman would never go along with it.

[The Rose]

Read Identity Crisis. You'll understand why Batman would never go along with it.

Rep earned.

[The Rose]

Superman would never join an Illuminati. He's far too straight-laced.

I think it'd be something like this:

Oracle (or Batman)
Raven
Dr. Fate
Martian Manhunter
Amanda Waller
Swamp Thing
Black Adam
Phantom Stranger
Hmm...I really like this ABF. Especially Black Adam and Amanda Waller. My biggest beef with Martian Manhunter is how sympathetic he is for humans. I don't think he'd fit the mold. I don't think Superman is too straightlaced, I agree with top dog.

How's this:

Black Adam--Gods
Amanda Waller--Government
Dr. Fate--Magic
Aquaman--Atlantis
Swamp Thing--The Green
Superman--The Ideal 'Hero'

Superman forms group after something terrible happens to Lois, ex. she is possessed by creature that cannot be destroyed conventionally, has to get dirty.

[The Rose]

Maybe he has to kill lois himself, and his parents too. Idk...just something that makes Clark realize that he isn't enough by himself, that he can't be the boy scout.

[Wolf_Otaku]

Because it's totally out of character for the majority of those people you listed to ever be part of a secret society...

Zatanna was also one of the perpetrators in Identity Crisis. Considering how she mindwiped Dr. Light, I don't think she's completely above forming a society to dictate humanity.

[Troma99]

Hmm...I really like this ABF. Especially Black Adam and Amanda Waller. My biggest beef with Martian Manhunter is how sympathetic he is for humans. I don't think he'd fit the mold. I don't think Superman is too straightlaced, I agree with top dog.

How's this:

Black Adam--Gods
Amanda Waller--Government
Dr. Fate--Magic
Aquaman--Atlantis
Swamp Thing--The Green
Superman--The Ideal 'Hero'

Superman forms group after something terrible happens to Lois, ex. she is possessed by creature that cannot be destroyed conventionally, has to get dirty.

This Lineup makes sense for the DC Universe's essentials. However there is no "Science" Person and I'd probably replace Superman with the Science Person...


I do Like Amanda Waller in that line up. She's pretty much Like what Osborn Tried to be in the Cabal...except you know she'd probably actually do it.

[rollinsolo]

Martain Manhunter would be more likely to join than Superman

[Hellfire117]

Martain Manhunter would be more likely to join than Superman

Go to superdickery.com and you'll change your mind about Superman. He's a total dbag when he wants to be.

[The Rose]

This Lineup makes sense for the DC Universe's essentials. However there is no "Science" Person and I'd probably replace Superman with the Science Person...



How about I just add The Atom to the Team?

[The Rose]

U The Atom
Team: Justice League
Range: 0 :bolt:
Points: 100
Keywords: Scientist, Justice League of America, Illuminati
m-normala-normald-normalg-normal89182791926102036112148918288171KOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKOKO
:star: Pocket-Sized: The Atom can be carried by any character. The character does not decrease their speed value for carrying The Atom.
Speed - Shrink Down: The Atom may use Shape Change.
Attack - Sub-Atomic: The Atom may use Exploit Weakness, Phasing, and Stealth.
Damage - Tearing You Molecules Apart: The Atom can use Poison and Outwit.

Am I getting too fanboy?

[imaleximsweet]

im a big illuminati fan, and the main component is not that they are the most heroic, but rather they are the leaders/founders of the most powerful groups in the Marvel univers (that directly involve Earth)

Black Bolt-King of inhumans
Namor-King of atlantis
Black Panther- King of Wakanda (leading source of vibrainum)
Prof X- Founder of the X-men and the School
Ironman- Founder/leader of Avengers
Mr. Fantastic-Founder/leader of Fantastic 4
dr strange- sourcer supreme

so in order for it to play out in the DC universe i would think you would have to find similar groups for the DC Illuminati

King of Atlantis-Aquaman (thats a given)

Major Super hero team leader/founder- I'd go with Martian Manhunter JLA founder, and he spends alot of time in the watchtower and such, seems like something he'd be interested in.

Mystical leader- Dr. Fate seems like a given

now the tough part...

The Atom seems to be a Mr. Fantastic esq player in the DC universe. Smart, with leadership skills.

I can broadly see Prof. X being a symbol for the misunderstood in the marvel Uni. although i don't see how that can translate to the DC uni... perhaps someone can help me there.

thats all i can think of right now. good ideas so far everyone. i'll come back after thinkin and such

[aqhoffman]

I think Hal Jordan would be a logical member. But with Alan Scott included, the two Green Lantern related guys may be too much.
Will Magnus or Niles Caulder could be the science guy. Peripheral hero maybe, but still carry a lot of weight in the DCU.
The current LEGION Brainiac guy (Vril Dox maybe, without looking it up).

[darkjacen]

I was under the impression that DC's Illuminati were the 5 members of the Quintessence.

The Phantom Stranger
High Father
Zeus
Ganthet
Wizard Shazam.

Being who watch and interfere with all affairs if needed.

[crimson_triangle]

Batman doesn't mind secrets, he is about moving in the shadows, brother eye? Definitely think Wonder Woman and Supes would turn it down.

My suggestions;
Batman
Waller
Alan Scott
Aqua Man
Martian Manhunter

[rollinsolo]

Maybe Darkseid could join?

[Troma99]

I was under the impression that DC's Illuminati were the 5 members of the Quintessence.

The Phantom Stranger
High Father
Zeus
Ganthet
Wizard Shazam.

Being who watch and interfere with all affairs if needed.

See that's what I said But I think they're more on a cosmic level and the Illuminati are more on an Earth based Level.

hmmm

[imaleximsweet]

Maybe Darkseid could join?

i dont see that happening, the illuminati from marvel seem to be focused on Earth, so supreme beings/galatic beings i would not include in a dc illuminati

[Troma99]

Maybe Darkseid could join?

I think He's too cosmically inclined to deal with Tiny Earthly matters...unless you know he wants to conquer or enact revenge.

Hmmm
DCs Cabal:

Lex Luthor (Osborn)
Captain Cold (KInd of the Hood. But more So that he's a down To Earth Villain)
Black Manta
Circe (Loki)
I'm Not Sure Who'd fill in For Doom? Maybe Black Adam? A Ruler of a foreign country who is considered "Honorable"

[Hellfire117]

I think Hal Jordan would be a logical member. But with Alan Scott included, the two Green Lantern related guys may be too much.
Will Magnus or Niles Caulder could be the science guy. Peripheral hero maybe, but still carry a lot of weight in the DCU.
The current LEGION Brainiac guy (Vril Dox maybe, without looking it up).

Throw in my vote for Will Magnus! If not him, Dr. Sivanna or T.O. Morrow ala 52...

[HeroclixFrank]

Not only would Batman be against it, he'd build a big intelligent satellite and a bunch of OMACs and prepair for each heroes weaknesses.

Then some silly villain would find it all and all heck would break loose.

[imaleximsweet]

Not only would Batman be against it, he'd build a big intelligent satellite and a bunch of OMACs and prepair for each heroes weaknesses.

Then some silly villain would find it all and all heck would break loose.

silly villian you say?! how about..... trickster!! (you thought i was gonna say Joker, too cliche, trickster would make a MUCH better story line)

[The Rose]

So, Team:

Amanda Waller
Black Adam
Superman/Swamp Thing
Aquaman
The Atom
Dr Fate

Sound about right to you guys?

[Amora's_best_friend]

Why The Atom? He's such a non-event; so insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

It should be:

Amanda Waller
Black Adam
Swamp Thing
Dr. Fate
Aquaman
Talia Al Ghul*

All in contact with Oracle.


* (I would say Ra's, but there's already a male-female imbalance, and Black Adam fills the anti-hero/villain space)

[Slade Wilson]

cant see superman being in such a group but sure could see ras or luthor.

[Troma99]

cant see superman being in such a group but sure could see ras or luthor.

Have you read Kingdom come?

Mankind LIberation Front anyone?

[Amora's_best_friend]

I don't see the point in including Superman - he's already far too overused in the DC universe, and only brings baggage to the whole affair.

It's just a massively cliche thing to do, almost as cliche as including Batman. But then, Batman actually has an interesting character, and isn't human-beige like Superman, so if he were on the team it would be acceptable.

If anything, have Captain Marvel or Martian Manhunter. Both far more interesting and less oversubscribed characters.

[Troma99]

I don't see the point in including Superman - he's already far too overused in the DC universe, and only brings baggage to the whole affair.

It's just a massively cliche thing to do, almost as cliche as including Batman. But then, Batman actually has an interesting character, and isn't human-beige like Superman, so if he were on the team it would be acceptable.

If anything, have Captain Marvel or Martian Manhunter. Both far more interesting and less oversubscribed characters.

Captain marvel could be the link to the Old Gods Over Black adam?

I mean he is their champion

[Amora's_best_friend]

Captain marvel could be the link to the Old Gods Over Black adam?

I mean he is their champion

But why would you replace an interesting character with a ####-boring one?

[Troma99]

But why would you replace an interesting character with a ####-boring one?

Dude you're the one who suggested captain Marvel. I was just saying what'd be the point for having him in there? I mean if we already have Black Adam in the Lineup why throw in Billy's Buddy?

[Terman8er]

IMO

Illuminati

The Ruler of an Alien Society

Marvel: Black Bolt (The Ruler of an Alien race, the Inhumans)

DC: Jemm, Son of Saturn (The Saturian ambasador to Earth)

The Ruler of a Superhuman Society on Earth

Marvel: Namor (The Ruler of an Atlantis)

DC: Aquaman (The Ruler of Atlantis)

The Ruler of a Nation on Earth

Marvel: Black Panther (the Ruler of an Earth country aka King of Wakanda)

DC: Black Adam (the Ruler of Kahndaq)

The Underground Leader of a Superhuman Team

Marvel: Prof X (The Founder of the X-Men...the social outcasts)

DC: Chief (The Founder of the Doom Patrol)

The Government Conenction

Marvel: Ironman (One of the founders of the Avengers)

DC: Alan Scott (Green Lantern and Checkmate's White King)

The Technological King

Marvel: Mr. Fantastic (Founder and Leader of the Fantastic 4)

DC: Mr Terrific (A mainstay of the JSA)

The Magical Connection

Marvel: Dr Strange (Former Sorcerror Supreme)

DC: Dr Occult (A member of the "Sentinels of Magic", DC's magical watchguards)

[imaleximsweet]

i disagree with the implication that Ironman is represented as a "Government Connection"


when the illuminati first formed he was just "Leader of the Avengers" this was before he revealed himself to the world and before he was given the job as head of S.H.E.I.L.D

Remember the illuminati met in secret long before the Civil War, long before the registration act. and especially long before Secret Invasion.

Ironman was in the illuminati because he was the head member of the largest super-group out there. the avengers. and how influential HE is and they are.

edit: also i thought the Inhumans werent "alien" but rather just a haven for misunderstood meta-humans (that are transformed by the mist)

and i thought Atlantians were different species rather than "super"humans

[Troma99]

i disagree with the implication that Ironman is represented as a "Government Connection"


when the illuminati first formed he was just "Leader of the Avengers" this was before he revealed himself to the world and before he was given the job as head of S.H.E.I.L.D

Remember the illuminati met in secret long before the Civil War, long before the registration act. and especially long before Secret Invasion.

Ironman was in the illuminati because he was the head member of the largest super-group out there. the avengers. and how influential HE is and they are.

edit: also i thought the Inhumans werent "alien" but rather just a haven for misunderstood meta-humans (that are transformed by the mist)

and i thought Atlantians were different species rather than "super"humans


I DISAGREE WITH YOU BOTH!!!

I think Wizard Broke it down like this;


Black Bolt: Inhuman Connection
Prof. Xaiver: Mutant Conenction
Dr. Strange: Magical Connection
Mr. Fantastic: Cosmic Connection (Or more so he often Dealt with Cosmic Dickery)
Namor: Atlantis and Water Connectin
Tony Stark: Technological Know-How Connection.


Oh well

[imaleximsweet]

I DISAGREE WITH YOU BOTH!!!

I think Wizard Broke it down like this;


Black Bolt: Inhuman Connection
Prof. Xaiver: Mutant Conenction
Dr. Strange: Magical Connection
Mr. Fantastic: Cosmic Connection (Or more so he often Dealt with Cosmic Dickery)
Namor: Atlantis and Water Connectin
Tony Stark: Technological Know-How Connection.


Oh well

ya, i agree with this more-so than i agreed withmyself

[Troma99]

Woot woot. Ok now let's hammer This out...or..

You know we can all start MAKING DIALS Of these figures

[Repulsor rage]

I think He's too cosmically inclined to deal with Tiny Earthly matters...unless you know he wants to conquer or enact revenge.

Hmmm
DCs Cabal:

Lex Luthor (Osborn)
Captain Cold (KInd of the Hood. But more So that he's a down To Earth Villain)
Black Manta
Circe (Loki)
I'm Not Sure Who'd fill in For Doom? Maybe Black Adam? A Ruler of a foreign country who is considered "Honorable"

I've thought that Ra's al Ghul was alot like Doom

[Troma99]

I've thought that Ra's al Ghul was alot like Doom

AH there it is. Yeah he'd work out pretty well actually.

[The Rose]

List of all suggested Characters:

Amanda Waller
Aquaman
Ra's Al Ghul
Oracle
Dr. Fate
Swamp Thing
Black Adam
Superman
Lex Luthor
Chief
Talia Al Ghul
The Atom
Captian Cold
Black Manta
Circe
Dr. Occult
Mr. Terriffic
Alan Scott
Jemm
Dr. Sivana
T.O. Morrow
Captain Marvel
Batman
Darkseid
Zatanna
Martian Manhunter
Raven
Phantom Stranger
Wonder Woman
Mera
Starfire
=====================

Now, let's go ahead and eliminate characters from this list.

I say lets eliminate both Superman and Darkseid. I've been won over by the idea that these are overused and unlikely characters for a team such as this.

[theanalogkid]

You can eliminate Zee also. Unless none of you read the JLA run up to Identity Crisis? Wher Zee flat out refuses to remindwipe the villians Despero had unlocked? This whole business of her being comfortable with it the first time is tripe. Go back and read it again. She did it because she was inexperienced and thought she needed to impress the other heroes. She never believed it was the right idea, and certainly didn't like doing it to her friends. There is less of a chance she would on such a team than Clark would. You had to make it an Elseworlds to get him on. Like ABF said, there are many characters to use that would join such a cabal and are interesting characters.

Start with Black Adam. Depending on when this is set, he is either is ruler of his own country or just brings Namor's arrorgance to the table, along with his connection to the Quintessence.

[Troma99]

List of all suggested Characters:

Amanda Waller
Aquaman
Ra's Al Ghul
Oracle
Dr. Fate
Swamp Thing
Black Adam
Superman
Lex Luthor
Chief
Talia Al Ghul
The Atom
Captian Cold
Black Manta
Circe
Dr. Occult
Mr. Terriffic
Alan Scott
Jemm
Dr. Sivana
T.O. Morrow
Captain Marvel
Batman
Darkseid
Zatanna
Martian Manhunter
Raven
Phantom Stranger
Wonder Woman
Mera
Starfire
=====================

Now, let's go ahead and eliminate characters from this list.

I say lets eliminate both Superman and Darkseid. I've been won over by the idea that these are overused and unlikely characters for a team such as this.

OK you don't really fliter things well do you?

Some of those were mentioned as being part of "The Cabal" Equivalent not the Illuminati


You can eliminate Zee also. Unless none of you read the JLA run up to Identity Crisis? Wher Zee flat out refuses to remindwipe the villians Despero had unlocked? This whole business of her being comfortable with it the first time is tripe. Go back and read it again. She did it because she was inexperienced and thought she needed to impress the other heroes. She never believed it was the right idea, and certainly didn't like doing it to her friends. There is less of a chance she would on such a team than Clark would. You had to make it an Elseworlds to get him on. Like ABF said, there are many characters to use that would join such a cabal and are interesting characters.

Start with Black Adam. Depending on when this is set, he is either is ruler of his own country or just brings Namor's arrorgance to the table, along with his connection to the Quintessence.


Ditto Black Adam's very similar to Namor in Power, Abilities, Arrogance AND Physical Appearance(Why yes I'm Leonard Nimoy's Athletic Brother)

[The Rose]

OK you don't really fliter things well do you?

Some of those were mentioned as being part of "The Cabal" Equivalent not the Illuminati


I know. Honestly, as far as the DC universe is concerned, I don't see much distinguishing between a Cabal or Illuminati. Either team would be made of baddies or questionable heroes or protagonists who have some dark element. I think DC's Illuminati and Cabal would be one and the same. Powerful, influential, and encompassing a large presence in the DC Universe.

[The Rose]

I agree that Black Adam should, without a doubt, be on the team.

[theanalogkid]

Zatanna was also one of the perpetrators in Identity Crisis. Considering how she mindwiped Dr. Light, I don't think she's completely above forming a society to dictate humanity.

I was responding to this, which in itself was a response to ABF saying something about Superman's inclusion being totally out of character. Which it is. I saying the same about Zee. So what filter am I not using?

[Troma99]

I know. Honestly, as far as the DC universe is concerned, I don't see much distinguishing between a Cabal or Illuminati. Either team would be made of baddies or questionable heroes or protagonists who have some dark element. I think DC's Illuminati and Cabal would be one and the same. Powerful, influential, and encompassing a large presence in the DC Universe.

Fair enough. Isn't that odd? Because DC always has the reputation of being more Black ANd White But what you've said rings true.


Ok So For Sure:

Black Adam (Link to the Elder Gods)



Could We also Agree on Amanda Waller as the Government Connection. Whether this is "Present" In the Marvel's Illuminati is irrelevant because the government has played a MAJOR Role in the DC Superhero Community. And Sure you can say it has in Marvel as well but definitely not in the same way. Typically in Marvel its "Oh MUtant This" Or "Registration That".

[chrisgo316]

This is a great idea. Rep to you for this :)


I would have:

Atlantis - Namor : Aquaman

Magic - Dr. Strange : Dr. Fate (And their both Doctors too!)

Scientist - Reed Richards : Mr. Terrific or Will Magnus

Technology/Government - Tony Stark : Steel

Mutants/Misunderstood group - Xavier : The Chief (Niles Caulder)

Extraterrestial Leader - Black Bolt : Jemm or Martian Manhunter

National Leader - Black Panther : Black Adam

[chrisgo316]

I also like your Aquaman dial.

[theanalogkid]

Might I also point out that J'onn would never join such an organization either. In the JLA Year One series, it was his files that he kept on everyone that allowed the Appelaxians the chance to round up the heroes in their civilian guises and throw them on Blackhawk Island, plus cause friction between him and his teeammates at the time. He was mindwiped because they knew he would never approve of such a tactic, or keep it a secret.

[Troma99]

Might I also point out that J'onn would never join such an organization either. In the JLA Year One series, it was his files that he kept on everyone that allowed the Appelaxians the chance to round up the heroes in their civilian guises and throw them on Blackhawk Island, plus cause friction between him and histeeammates at the time. He was mindwiped because they knew he would never approve of such a tactic, or keep it a secret.

I can Understand this. That and J'onn tries really hard to be a humanitarian and I doubt would adhere to what he would see as the beginnings of Totalitarianism.

[theanalogkid]

Maybe a GL in the Black Bolt role, John Stewart comes to mind. His background would allow him to easily join a covert group if he thought it was for the greater good, if nothing more than to watch over it.

[Amora's_best_friend]

Black Adam, Amanda Waller and Dr. Fate feel like the three essentials in my mind.

[Amora's_best_friend]

Maybe a GL in the Black Bolt role, John Stewart comes to mind. His background would allow him to easily join a covert group if he thought it was for the greater good, if nothing more than to watch over it.

I agree. And he feels underused, especially in recent years.

[imaleximsweet]

i think we got ironman all wrong; he's not a government "connection" per say, but rather someone who believes in the government being able to assist. he's basically a normal guy, being that he has no powers or anything like that

after thinking about it, i can see bruce wayne being more of this type of character, he already has files on all the heroes he knows incase they turn evil. this seems to be right up his alley, secrecy for the better good.

the only difference is batman wouldnt reveal himself to the world. Or would he??

[Amora's_best_friend]

Might I also point out that J'onn would never join such an organization either. In the JLA Year One series, it was his files that he kept on everyone that allowed the Appelaxians the chance to round up the heroes in their civilian guises and throw them on Blackhawk Island, plus cause friction between him and his teeammates at the time. He was mindwiped because they knew he would never approve of such a tactic, or keep it a secret.

JLA Year One was why I immediately thought of him, but I totally see your point. Why would he ever do anything secret/subversive again, when the whole world was nearly destroyed?

[The Rose]

Aquaman
Ra's Al Ghul
Oracle
Dr. Fate
Swamp Thing
Lex Luthor
Chief
Talia Al Ghul
The Atom
Captian Cold
Black Manta
Circe
Dr. Occult
Mr. Terriffic
Alan Scott
Jemm
Dr. Sivana
T.O. Morrow
Captain Marvel
Batman
Zatanna
Raven
Phantom Stranger
Wonder Woman
Mera
Starfire
John Stewart
=====

Eliminated Darkseid, Martian Manhunter, and Superman.
Added John Stewart
Also removed, because they seem essential:

Team
Amanda Waller (the Commissioner, does not count towards the 6 on team)
Black Adam

====

I think it is safe to Eliminate Captain Marvel, since Black Adam is on the team. Agreed?

[Amora's_best_friend]

Yeah, Captain Marvel is superfluous.

Get rid of The Atom too. He has no presence as a character.

Captain Cold, Dr. Sivana and Black Manta are evil and would never be allowed on the team, also have no reason to be there. Jemm is too obscure.

Zatanna would never join. Goes against her character. Same for Wonder Woman.

Basically I see these as possibilities:

Aquaman
Ra's Al Ghul
Oracle
Dr. Fate
Swamp Thing
Lex Luthor
Chief
Talia Al Ghul
Circe
Dr. Occult
Mr. Terriffic
Alan Scott
Batman
Raven
Phantom Stranger
Mera
Starfire
John Stewart

[The Rose]

Yeah, Captain Marvel is superfluous.

Get rid of The Atom too. He has no presence as a character.

Captain Cold, Dr. Sivana and Black Manta are evil and would never be allowed on the team, also have no reason to be there. Jemm is too obscure.

Zatanna would never join. Goes against her character. Same for Wonder Woman.

I fully agree with this analysis. Now, let's divide these characters into Sub categories

Atlantis: Aquaman, Mera
Mystical: Dr. Fate, Dr. Occult, Raven
Black Ops: Chief, Oracle, Batman
Intergalactic Police: Starfire, John Stewart
Scientist: Mr. Terriffic, Lex Luthor
Secret Society: Ra's Al Ghul, Talia Al Ghul
Omnipresence: Swamp Thing, Circe, Phantom Stranger

Not sure where to put Alan Scott. Maybe Secret Society, for Checkmate.

[The Rose]

I'd like to vote off Raven and Starfire. Even with their work on the Teen Titans, I feel they are too inexperienced for a team like this.

[aqhoffman]

Still say include the Chief (Niles Caulder) or Will Magnus as scientists and drop Lex Luthor- no way Lex gets credibility enough to be in it. His presence alone would ensure that Superman, Bats, and others would take a huge interest in what they are doing and put a stop to it.

Another guy I just thought of as a logical fit is CPT Comet/Adam Blake. He's the first comic mutant, and for awhile was a major part of DC's universe. He's millenia more advanced than a normal human. He's made sacrifices for what he sees as the greater good and has a power set similar to a Supes/Martian Manhunter. The only issue with him I see is that he is very interstellar lately in DC titles and only leads in team up type titles.

Aquaman
the Chief
CPT Comet
Phantom Stranger and/or Dr Fate
Mr Terrific
Alan Scott
the new CPT Marvel (Freddie Freeman, not Billy Batson who basically replaced the wizard Shazam)
Amanda Waller
Wonder Woman
maybe General Lane in lieu of Waller? I dislike the whole New Krypton/War of the Supermen storyline, but Lane would fit.

[Troma99]

Right but can we keep the villains in a Cache later for a version of the Cabal?

Again Captain cold may be a villain but I'd easily say he's the most honorable "Non-gentlemen" villain out there.

[imaleximsweet]

Right but can we keep the villains in a Cache later for a version of the Cabal?

Again Captain cold may be a villain but I'd easily say he's the most honorable "Non-gentlemen" villain out there.

which reminds me, whould Gentleman Ghost be a good "Spirit-magic connection" for the Cabal/

[Troma99]

which reminds me, whould Gentleman Ghost be a good "Spirit-magic connection" for the Cabal/

Oh God He'd Be really Nice.

I'd actually like him better than some of the more "obvious" magical villains because he's such an interesting character (That and he's been getting more light in Brave and the Bold)


Though I'd feel for the Cabal:

Captain Cold-The Hood
Lex Luthor-Norman Obsorn
Black Adam-Namor
Felix Faust/Gentlemen Ghost for Loki


I'm not sure who'd fill the void for Emma Frost...

And the Parasite would fill in For Taskmaster...you know later when they needed to "fill in space"

[Amora's_best_friend]

I'm not sure who'd fill the void for Emma Frost...

Talia?

..

[Terman8er]

Black Adam, Amanda Waller and Dr. Fate feel like the three essentials in my mind.

Not picking on you ABF (Yes I know it seems that way lately) I am just using your post here to make a point.

The current Dr. Fate is "in school" as he is brand new to the role, meaning I don't see him as anyone that could fill this role.

Dr. Occult or even Dr. Mist, oh very much so.

[Terman8er]

I'm not sure who'd fill the void for Emma Frost...

Poison Ivy
Catwoman


Just to name a few.

Also, I think it is important to include some more obscure characters in this.

For example I mentioned Jemm earlier and it was mentioned he was "too obscure". I agree...but if you read the JLA arc where the big surprise was that Luthor had been using Jemm as his "secret weapon" then you know he has a reason for being a group like this. The man was used in a nasty way and should be looking, from the shadows, for a little something-something.

[Amora's_best_friend]

Not picking on you ABF (Yes I know it seems that way lately) I am just using your post here to make a point.

The current Dr. Fate is "in school" as he is brand new to the role, meaning I don't see him as anyone that could fill this role.

Dr. Occult or even Dr. Mist, oh very much so.

Well if Jason Todd made it back... :cheeky:

[Terman8er]

This is a great idea. Rep to you for this :)


I would have:

Atlantis - Namor : Aquaman

Magic - Dr. Strange : Dr. Fate (And their both Doctors too!)

Scientist - Reed Richards : Mr. Terrific or Will Magnus

Technology/Government - Tony Stark : Steel

Mutants/Misunderstood group - Xavier : The Chief (Niles Caulder)

Extraterrestial Leader - Black Bolt : Jemm or Martian Manhunter

National Leader - Black Panther : Black Adam

While I like most of this one I have a couple suggestions:


Atlantis - Namor : Aquaman 100% Agree

Magic - Dr. Strange : Dr. Occult or Dr. Mist, definitely not the new inexperienced Dr.Fate

Scientist - Reed Richards : Mr. Terrific or Will Magnus either works for me....perhaps more Magnus than T, to give him more of a DC presence

Technology/Government - Tony Stark : Not Steel, too goody-goody for this. Perhaps Mr. Terrific here for the Tech aspect as well as his connections to Checkmate

Mutants/Misunderstood group - Xavier : The Chief (Niles Caulder) 100% Agree

Extraterrestial Leader - Black Bolt : Jemm 100% Agree

National Leader - Black Panther : Black Adam 100% Agree

[Amora's_best_friend]

For example I mentioned Jemm earlier and it was mentioned he was "too obscure". I agree...but if you read the JLA arc where the big surprise was that Luthor had been using Jemm as his "secret weapon" then you know he has a reason for being a group like this. The man was used in a nasty way and should be looking, from the shadows, for a little something-something.

Just the mere fact he's called "Jemm" puts me off. It just sounds lame.

Reminds me of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20BZID081Vk). Which is coincidentally ####ing amazing, but only if you've seen the Jiz spoof (which is far too rude to link to).

[Troma99]

Poison Ivy
Catwoman


Just to name a few.

Also, I think it is important to include some more obscure characters in this.

For example I mentioned Jemm earlier and it was mentioned he was "too obscure". I agree...but if you read the JLA arc where the big surprise was that Luthor had been using Jemm as his "secret weapon" then you know he has a reason for being a group like this. The man was used in a nasty way and should be looking, from the shadows, for a little something-something.

Uhhh I'd say no On those becuase sure they're Eye Candy like her..But that's not why she's there. She's meant to be Xaiver's Equivalent.


So maybe....Rita Farr?

[imaleximsweet]

after reading Mr. T's wiki page, i think he'd be PERFECT for the Illuminati of DC, he seems to fill Ironman's shoes fairly well. (even down to his "Fair Play" motto)

so heres my list

Arthur Curry - but i think he'd be like Black panther and decide not to join

Mr. Terrific

Black Adam - More like Namor

one of the mystical Dr's. I was unaware that there was a new Dr. Fate,

OH brain storm!!! Why not Tempest to fill the mystical aspect?? because he then fills 2 roles, connection to Atlantis, and Mystical le-ay-zan (i don't know how to spell it, so i did it phonetically)

but then again, i dont know much about Tempest, but i figure he could be good? (depending on his power level)

scientist.... I don't mind Will Magnus, but how often does he deal in cosmic beings?? in any case i like him here

Chief, good call. plus he's in a wheel chair!! like prof X

i dont know this Jemm fella... but i can see J'onn doing some shady things...

[Terman8er]

Well if Jason Todd made it back... :cheeky:

Not sure I follow.

Jason died and was rezzed by Superbrat punching "reality" *sigh*

The Helm of Nabu made an interdimensional quest to find someone worthy. It did...and the current Dr. Fate is n00b. He is actually in another dimension going to "school" with some major magical powerhouses.

[Terman8er]

OH brain storm!!! Why not Tempest to fill the mystical aspect??

he's dead Jim


I know I know I know...comic death and all that. But he died during the Blackest Night run and with the resurections in Brightest Night there were comments that there would be no more "coming back" so...???

[Terman8er]

Uhhh I'd say no On those becuase sure they're Eye Candy like her..But that's not why she's there. She's meant to be Xaiver's Equivalent.


So maybe....Rita Farr?

The reason Ivy came to mind is that she really is so much more than eye candy (according to the Swamp Thing). There are hints are her connection to the "green" being more significant than previously thought.

[Troma99]

The reason Ivy came to mind is that she really is so much more than eye candy (according to the Swamp Thing). There are hints are her connection to the "green" being more significant than previously thought.

#### Son. I've only read Vol. 3 (I just bought 2 and am waiting for 1 to come in the mail to start up again)

Thanks for the Info. You're right.


OH GOD THAT'D WORK TWO WAYS. She'd be The Femme Fatale Eye Candy and She'd Be Swamp Thing's opposite.

Good because I ####in Hate Woodrue...though according to my friend after I read Swamp Thing I'll LOVE HIM...We'll see I didn't feel that way with Doctor Dee after Sandman.

[aqhoffman]

No worries, I'm actually in agreement with you- I almost typed in Dr Fate (Nabu) when I entered that, for that very reason. Had I shown a bit more respect for other readers' DC lore knowledge, I'd have done that! I'm still not sold on the latest "Kent Nelson but not the same Kent Nelson with an Inza who isn't Inza" Dr Fate. Fate was such a DC heavyweight and now is just a cool uniform.

Dr Mist is the other I thought of but left off the list. The Global Guardians have been non existent for a few years, and Mist kinda dropped off the radar. Would be an intriguing way to bring him back though!

Hippolyta maybe in place of Wonder Woman. A god, leader of a secret society of super humans, major powers, not above deciding what is best for others. Still pretty hot.

[4RAGER]

Aquaman
Doctor Fate
The Atom
Wonder Woman
Chief
Steel

[Grumpygoat]

All of the Illuminati are powerful individuals with a considerable degree of influence. They're also all at least somewhat capable of acting in an underhanded manner or otherwise acknowledge the utility of secrecy.

The other thing about the Illuminati is that they're not necessarily "fascists." The group was primarily put together to share information with one another.

If the character isn't all that personally powerful, the individual probably shouldn't be on the team. If the individual doesn't have a lot of sway over a specific group, the individual probably shouldn't be on the team. There are exceptions to this, but that's the general run down. The influence is probably the most important part. As such, I'd nominate...

* Oracle (Gotham connection/most connected individual in the whole DCU - no direct analogue, but Professor X might do, both for the wheelchair and because the DCU lacks a mutant group, anyway)

* Aquaman (Ruler of Atlantis/JLA connection - Namor analogue)

* The Martian Manhunter (JLA connection - Iron Man analogue, in the way that Iron Man represents the Avengers) - and yes, the Martian Manhunter is perfectly willing to act in a somewhat underhanded manner. See: Checkmate, 52.

* Mister Terrific (Government/JSA connection/Tech Guy - Mr. Fantastic analogue)

* Black Adam (Ruler of Kahndaq/Mystic connection - sort of a Dr. Strange analogue, but also works as the Namor of the group) - conversely, Alan Scott might be a decent Dr. Stranger fill-in. Black Adam could also do for Black Bolt in a pinch.

[Troma99]

All of the Illuminati are powerful individuals with a considerable degree of influence. They're also all at least somewhat capable of acting in an underhanded manner or otherwise acknowledge the utility of secrecy.

The other thing about the Illuminati is that they're not necessarily "fascists." The group was primarily put together to share information with one another.

If the character isn't all that personally powerful, the individual probably shouldn't be on the team. If the individual doesn't have a lot of sway over a specific group, the individual probably shouldn't be on the team. There are exceptions to this, but that's the general run down. The influence is probably the most important part. As such, I'd nominate...

* Oracle (Gotham connection/most connected individual in the whole DCU - no direct analogue, but Professor X might do, both for the wheelchair and because the DCU lacks a mutant group, anyway)

* Aquaman (Ruler of Atlantis/JLA connection - Namor analogue)

* The Martian Manhunter (JLA connection - Iron Man analogue, in the way that Iron Man represents the Avengers) - and yes, the Martian Manhunter is perfectly willing to act in a somewhat underhanded manner. See: Checkmate, 52.

* Mister Terrific (Government/JSA connection/Tech Guy - Mr. Fantastic analogue)

* Black Adam (Ruler of Kahndaq/Mystic connection - sort of a Dr. Strange analogue, but also works as the Namor of the group) - conversely, Alan Scott might be a decent Dr. Stranger fill-in. Black Adam could also do for Black Bolt in a pinch.

Well I suppose with your logic that makes sense but I'd still want Waller over Terrific For Government. Though I can see Terrific still being in there for the technology aspect.

[Grumpygoat]

Well I suppose with your logic that makes sense but I'd still want Waller over Terrific For Government. Though I can see Terrific still being in there for the technology aspect.

I don't imagine Waller would be asked in the first place. She's nowhere near trustworthy enough - she'd sell the group out to the US government the moment she learned about it.

[Amora's_best_friend]

I don't imagine Waller would be asked in the first place. She's nowhere near trustworthy enough - she'd sell the group out to the US government the moment she learned about it.

At the same time, she is calculated. She wouldn't do something as rash as that, especially if its secret for a reason.

Also, she'd be likely to be the one creating it and asking other people to join. None of the JLA would ever ask Black Adam, considering he has actually killed loads of people.

[Grumpygoat]

At the same time, she is calculated. She wouldn't do something as rash as that, especially if its secret for a reason.

Yeah, get back to me after you've read more on Amanda Waller. If she's loyal to anyone, it's to the US government. She'd sell the rest of the group down the river, right fast. No one of any sense would ask her to join anything.

Also, she'd be likely to be the one creating it and asking other people to join. None of the JLA would ever ask Black Adam, considering he has actually killed loads of people.

It's doubtful that anyone would sign up with Waller in the first place. As for Adam, true - no one would ask him to be part of the group post-52. Before that, though? Yes, chances are he would be tapped or otherwise involved.

[theanalogkid]

#### Son. I've only read Vol. 3 (I just bought 2 and am waiting for 1 to come in the mail to start up again)

Thanks for the Info. You're right.


OH GOD THAT'D WORK TWO WAYS. She'd be The Femme Fatale Eye Candy and She'd Be Swamp Thing's opposite.

Good because I ####in Hate Woodrue...though according to my friend after I read Swamp Thing I'll LOVE HIM...We'll see I didn't feel that way with Doctor Dee after Sandman.

What/ Two of the best DC villians? Iv'e had good luck playing with both.

[theanalogkid]

Yeah, Captain Marvel is superfluous.

Get rid of The Atom too. He has no presence as a character.

Captain Cold, Dr. Sivana and Black Manta are evil and would never be allowed on the team, also have no reason to be there. Jemm is too obscure.

Zatanna would never join. Goes against her character. Same for Wonder Woman.

Basically I see these as possibilities:

Aquaman
Ra's Al Ghul
Oracle
Dr. Fate
Swamp Thing
Lex Luthor
Chief
Talia Al Ghul
Circe
Dr. Occult
Mr. Terriffic
Alan Scott
Batman
Raven
Phantom Stranger
Mera
Starfire
John Stewart



What's wrong with Ray? Maybe it would take a setting such as this to make him shine...But I agree. I only the Atom here at certain points of his life, not throughtout all of it.

[Troma99]

Yeah, get back to me after you've read more on Amanda Waller. If she's loyal to anyone, it's to the US government. She'd sell the rest of the group down the river, right fast. No one of any sense would ask her to join anything.



It's doubtful that anyone would sign up with Waller in the first place. As for Adam, true - no one would ask him to be part of the group post-52. Before that, though? Yes, chances are he would be tapped or otherwise involved.

I've read about her extensively in Suicide Squad. And If I Recall right she was loyal to her team (Surprisingly) over the government influence. She was willing to go to jail for a year before selling any of them out, or even asking Ben (Who probably would have) or Floyd (would have been dragged along with Ben) To break her out. In short: She's like Vega from Reservoir Dogs.



I think Waller would be the one to form the group in the first place. I mean She is On Par with Nick Fury in Secret Spy Dickery.

And Agreed on Adam. However if Waller WERE TO form the group she probably would have him, however his presence would off put some other "potential" members.

[Troma99]

What/ Two of the best DC villians? Iv'e had good luck playing with both.

Which ones?
Floronic And Destiny?
Ivy and Floronic?
OR Destiny and Ivy?


I mean I didn't HATE Dr. Destiny its just that as a character he kind of pales compared to the rest of the entire run on sandman.


I mean he was no doubt interesting in both appearance and his lack of sanity at the time. But I felt the truly interesting part of what he did was releasing people's inhibitions and THEIR reactions to it.


Sorry Going on. Detracting from thread.


I think we need to establish who would "Found" The group and under what purpose. I'd Say Amanda Would Found the Group. I could also See Lex Luthor being "Mockingbird" And founding the group as well. ANd that'd be the big reveal: A group of the most powerful/influential Super people all under the direction of Lex Luthor.

[Grumpygoat]

I've read about her extensively in Suicide Squad. And If I Recall right she was loyal to her team (Surprisingly) over the government influence. She was willing to go to jail for a year before selling any of them out, or even asking Ben (Who probably would have) or Floyd (would have been dragged along with Ben) To break her out. In short: She's like Vega from Reservoir Dogs.

I think Waller would be the one to form the group in the first place. I mean She is On Par with Nick Fury in Secret Spy Dickery.

And Agreed on Adam. However if Waller WERE TO form the group she probably would have him, however his presence would off put some other "potential" members.

Waller may have gone to the, ahem, wall for the Suicide Squad, but she's not exactly metahuman friendly and still often a snake - besides which, the Suicide Squad were essentially under her command, if I recall right. Waller works well with others when she's in control. In a group of peers? I don't see that going well. Also, note the absence of Nick Fury on the actual Illuminati. More likely Oracle would put together the group in the DCU, as another avenue of her information gathering. Furthermore, Oracle's someone that most of the heroes would actually trust/be willing to share information with/already have some alliance with, anyway. Her or Nightwing.

[Troma99]

Waller may have gone to the, ahem, wall for the Suicide Squad, but she's not exactly metahuman friendly and still often a snake - besides which, the Suicide Squad were essentially under her command, if I recall right. Waller works well with others when she's in control. In a group of peers? I don't see that going well. Also, note the absence of Nick Fury on the actual Illuminati. More likely Oracle would put together the group in the DCU, as another avenue of her information gathering. Furthermore, Oracle's someone that most of the heroes would actually trust/be willing to share information with/already have some alliance with, anyway. Her or Nightwing.

You mean batman? : P

Fair enough I can see your logic. She is a Snake But I really felt that She thought that Bronze Tiger and Her Were Peers...ditto On Nightshade (well before she went...crazy).

ANYWAY
Oracle would definitely make sense for the reason you point out. If she was the one to choose I could see her not allowing Black Adam because he's..unbalanced. Then Again...He's a Statue in Osiris' room right now.

[Grumpygoat]

You mean batman? : P

Fair enough I can see your logic. She is a Snake But I really felt that She thought that Bronze Tiger and Her Were Peers...ditto On Nightshade (well before she went...crazy).

Batman's not enough of a team player. Even on the JLA, he has a tendency to do his own thing - and when it comes to sharing information, he can be especially secretive. He runs somewhat into the same problem as Waller - he might be willing to lead a group like the Illuminati, but I doubt he'd actually settle for being just one of their peers. Meanwhile, Nightwing would be up for that.

ANYWAY
Oracle would definitely make sense for the reason you point out. If she was the one to choose I could see her not allowing Black Adam because he's..unbalanced. Then Again...He's a Statue in Osiris' room right now.

Yeah, if Oracle put things together, she likely wouldn't tap Black Adam.

For what it's worth, the Society is also a pretty good DC-equivalent to the Illuminati, if obviously on the villainous side of things. More than a few of the proposals here have borne a striking resemblance to the Society.

[Troma99]

No I meant that Nightwing is no more He's Batman Now.

Unless..Nite-Wing is still Running around.



Yes on the Society Except the Cabal/Illuminati didn't have a Mascot: Dr. Light. Who was there for symbolism...not for his skill.