Which is the best Star Wars? [Archive]

sluggo

02/24/2003, 21:37

Empire Strikes Back was the best movie, followed by a New Hope, Attack of the Clones, TPM and then Jedi.

Empire is considered to be so strong because the characters were always set up and the whole 2 hours was devoted to storytelling (the same thing is susposed to happen in X2). However I think GL made a big mistake with making Anakin a child in TPM and a young man in AotC. By doing this they have to take a lot of time in the next movie to explain and reintroduce Anakin to the audience. I think AotC would have been a better movie if they had indroduced Anakin when he was older, and started the love story in TPM, then fitted more story into AotC. I also think GL needs to get Kevin Smith to help him write the dialog for E3, GL really sucks a writing dialog.

I think most of us need to remember that we were kids when we first saw the orginal movies, were older now and Star Wars really are kids movies. When you look at ANH, the story really isn't that good or strong, same with RotJ. But we young and the movie was full of things people had never seen before. How often do we here or tell people that the first shot of that star destoryer coming over head just overwhelmed us - thats a visual effect, not story or acting. I don't think the new films are any worse then the orginal ones, just that we, as an audience, are older now and not as impressed with visual effects as we were back in 1977 when we'd never seen them before. Today great visual effects don't make a movie like they did back then.

CandySuxxx

02/24/2003, 21:51

wrath of kahn.

seriously though, Empire.

Wyldstaar

02/24/2003, 22:00

EMPIRE

Kudger

02/24/2003, 22:03

I was a kid when I saw the trilogy, but you got to admit, the acting and dialogue was still alot better. Han Solo was so well done that it launched Harrison Ford to stardom by ensuring his role as Indiana Jones. Also, episodes 2 and 1 are so hugely made of special effects that you can't get a feel for the movies. Bring back the puppets I say! :D

farmer

02/24/2003, 22:27

Return of the Jedi

It brings everything full circle, and it doesnt get any better than the Vader/Skywalker showdown in the presence of the Emperor

sluggo

02/24/2003, 23:31

"Han Solo was so well done that it launched Harrison Ford to stardom by ensuring his role as Indiana Jones" - Before the Indiana Jones role Ford was being "only cast" as Han, he couldn't get another job (like some of the other stars). It was just by luck that Tom Sellek couldn't do Indiana Jones so GL offered the role to Ford.

LivingTribunal

02/24/2003, 23:36

Don't get me wrong I love CGI, but with the puppets in episodes 4,5,6 it was more realistic.

zike9999

02/24/2003, 23:38

in my opion it goes like this

1. RotJ
2.AotC
3.New Hope
4.Empire
5.Phantom menece

i just didnt like empire, it bored me, it had no real stuff, it was just filler between the other two. just my 2 cents.

supergoblin

02/24/2003, 23:45

What about "save the whales"?

LivingTribunal

02/24/2003, 23:47

Come on it was the first intro to Boba Fett, Dengarr, IG-88 dude those bounty hunters kicked a$$! Plus Cloud City when Han was put into carbonite was the s&@t....

sluggo

02/24/2003, 23:48

Luke and Han joining the Alliance, Han and Leia falling in love, CPO being blown up, Luke being trained as a Jedi, finding out the Empire wants LUke alive instead dead, the indroduction of Lando, Han being frozen in carbanite, the introduction of Boba Fett and Yoda and finding out that Vader is really Lukes father is just filler? Dude, you need to learn what storytelling is. Almost everything thats important to the orginal trilogly happened or was introduced in Empire.

LivingTribunal

02/24/2003, 23:51

Yeah you tell him sluggo!

onew0rd

02/24/2003, 23:53

1. EMPIRE!!! - one of the greatest and most taken for granted and underappreciated scenes in the history of movies..."Vader is Luke's father???? OMG!!!" - epic battle on hoth, bespin scenes, this movie is amazing. Yoda intro. come on...it's not even a contest!
2. New hope and AOTC - tie!!!
3. ROTJ
4 TPM. Aside from the beginning and Maul, this movie was annoying. Midichlorians??? WTF??? Anakin immaculate conceptions??? Jar Jar was actually tolerable to me compared to these. poo i tell you. poo.

I actually think they need to strike a delicate balance between puppets and cgi. Good CGI is space battles and large scale stuff. Watto, Jar Jar, and bar owner in AOTC...should have been puppets.

zike9999

02/25/2003, 00:00

te thing im sayin in empire is that its all handeled like a soap opera. and Boba is not that great of a character. cloud city was boring and over acted, and vader is lukes father, uh i saw that coming in the first one. i think one of the biggest problems i had with it is that it had too much HAn. i dont like Han. he is a badly writen, badley acted character. ok thats all i have to sat right now lol

shin-goji

02/25/2003, 00:00

The one where Lucas quits smoking so much crack....

zike9999

02/25/2003, 00:03

by the way what i ment as filler is that it was way too many stories shoved into too short a period, just to move the story

Dinoman

02/25/2003, 00:04

I really enjoy forshadowing and action scenes, and so because those two things I liked the Phantom Menace, but also for its special effects. Empire was also very good:

1. The Phantom Menace
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Return of the Jedi
4. A New Hope
5. Attack of the Clones (or "Attack of the Stupid Name")

AOTC was just so bad! I was so angry the way they made C-3PO say "this is a real drag" as R2-D2 was dragging his head through the arena- that wasn't funny!

The worst: I am unfortunate enough to have seen "The Ewok Adventure," a terrible spin- off.

sluggo

02/25/2003, 00:11

"vader is lukes father, uh i saw that coming in the first one" - Oh please, don't be the guy who sees a movie then claims "I saw everything coming" - that scene had all of North America talking, no one saw it coming and it too everyone by susprise. There were gasps in the threaters when that Dialog was spoken, no one saw that coming.

zike9999 - ya, your right, all that story in Star Wars just got in the way of really cool looking saber fights, space ship chases and explosions. They should have just forgotten the story and just done 2 hours of that stuff.

toastyman

02/25/2003, 00:14

i like the threepio bit better than chewie swinging on a vine and giving the tarzan yell in ROTJ

hoshoko

02/25/2003, 00:26

Just to be different I'll pick IV A New Hope . Basically because of the destruction of the Death Star fight scenes were awesome.

I would of pick Empire, because it seems to have the best film production. My geek friend told me George Lucas wasn't involved in something or the other, and that is why it was better.

What that something was I can't remember. Probably the dialog for example in Attack of the Clones it was terrible. The romantic lines for Anakin and Amadala are a joke.

Quote:
"I don't like sand, it's coarse and rough, and irritating, and gets everywhere. NOT like you. You're everything soft and smooth. "

That's one of many lines that are slightly ill.

sluggo

02/25/2003, 00:32

"My geek friend told me George Lucas wasn't involved in something or the other, and that is why it was better" - GL wasn't as involved. Someone else, I forget who, wrote the screen play and someone else directered ESB (again, the name escapes me) as well as RotJ. GL did write the script and was there for much of hte shooting in a producer role, but thats it. And yes he does suck as writing dialog, like I said I think a GL, Kevin Smith script would be great, GL has the idea and story in his head and Kevin Smith is one of the best dialog writers around (in movies and comics). Plus then we might get to see Jay and Silentbob standing outside the Jedi temple selling weed.

""I don't like sand, it's coarse and rough, and irritating, and gets everywhere. NOT like you. You're everything soft and smooth. "" - Almost, the line is "I don't like sand, its coarse and rough and irritating and gets everywhere, Not like HERE, everything is soft and smooth" - then he strokes her cheek. Still cheesy but not as bad.

zike9999

02/25/2003, 00:38

it was obvious in new hope that luke and vader were closly connected, he was either his father or his fathers friend, it just took a guess. i mean y else would vader be intersted in some orphan whiny little punk who thought he knew something about the force. luke wasnt destened like anikin(oops spelt his name wrong lol, dont care, just another whiny punk in episode 1 and 2)

and i love the star wars story, im just saying empire could have been 2 verywell done movies, instead of one mundane one.

MarkFinn

02/25/2003, 00:45

Originally posted by four_winds
Empire Strikes Back was the best bar none,but Attack Of The Clones had a scene that made ESB that much better.I'm referring to the scene when Vader cuts off Lukes hand and pauses before finishing the job to look at his own hand.Now it meant very little and I always wondered about it up till AOTC was released and you release that Vader (Annakin) had lost his own hand.Thats some serious planning ahead on george lucas' part.

I really have to gently contest your last sentence. When Lucas sat down to write Episode I, he had No Idea what he was going to do. The bonus footage on the DVD confirms that. He cannibalized from his own outline (and from the work of far better creators) in order to get through the first trilogy. It's easy with twenty years' hindsight to set up something like the arm lopping scene in AOTC. But please don't mistake that as something he intended to do all along. It's just mirroring what he did in the first trilogy.

MarkStewart

02/25/2003, 01:54

Originally posted by zike9999
i just didnt like empire, it bored me, it had no real stuff, it was just filler between the other two.

Just filler?

Dude, five words for you: "Luke, I am your father."

DTM

02/25/2003, 13:38

A STAR WARS POST!! YES!!!!

Ahem.......

Huge SW fan here, in case you couldnt tell. Personally as to what my favorite movie of the 5 is, Id have to go with A New Hope, BUT it is VERY VERY VERY VERY closely followed by Empre Strikes Back in my opinion. I love the darkness of Empire, I love all that Vader (My favorite character) did, I loved how the heroes got their butts handed to them, but I have to say I like A New Hope alittle more.

First off it was a complete story, not a broken ending cliffhanger as Empire was. It might not have been as exciting as some of the others, but it was the first movie, and therefore needed to spend a good amount of time to introduce the characters and explain the situation (which I thought it did rather nicely). It did have several different actions scenes though, ending with probably the most exciting ending to any of the SW films, the Battle of Yavin 4......er.....the first Death Star battle, to all you non SW geeks like me. THat was EXCITING!! The Music was Superb (Big John Williams fan), the pacing was incredible, and it is truly one of the best nick-of-time-hero-saves-the-day endings around.

Sure it didnt have the lightsaber battles that the other movies did (Alec Guinness was not exactly a young man) and it doesnt have the effects of its future brothers either (though being made in 1977 I thought they did a phenominal job - ILM was created for A New Hope). Alot of fun, great characters, effects, settings and all around a great time for any sci fi fan, I feel ANH BARELY edges over ESB as the best Star Wars movie ever.

My list:

1. A New Hope
2. Empire Strikes Back
3. Return of the Jedi
4. Attack of the Clones
5. The Phantom Menace

LivingTribunal

02/25/2003, 15:52

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by zike9999
i just didnt like empire, it bored me, it had no real stuff, it was just filler between the other two.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Come on dude the only filler here is your posts...Sorry just a joke.
Serious It was the best sure it had a lot of Han, But it was for a reason. to build for the begining of RoTJ. You must of been the only person to see Vader bieng Lukes father.

Kudger

02/25/2003, 16:16

I'm leaning towards empire, but there's one real problem with it. It has no real beginning and no definate end. New Hope had both and to me that's what puts New Hope over Empire.

Also, regarding Boba Fett, I don't understand why everyone likes him so much. He did look cool and filled the role of the guy who captures Han Solo very well, but he was a very minor character. I'm probably wrong but I think he only had two lines, both in Empire. "As you wish" and something like "He's worth more alive to me." These quotes may not be worded right, but I do believe they are his only lines. That is why I hate the fact that they tried to make him a bigger character in episode II with Jengo Fett, that part was just darn hookey. That's my two cents :D

CyberVenom

02/25/2003, 16:25

To tell the truth, I haven't liked any of the films, save A New Hope (which I thought was just ok). But here's my list anyways:

1. A New Hope
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Clone Wars
4. Return Of The Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace

Batman1983

02/25/2003, 16:27

Empire

All Jedi had was a bunch of muppets

metzgarob

02/25/2003, 16:33

episode 1

DTM

02/25/2003, 16:33

Actually Jedi had one of the BEST outer space battles youll ever see, and that came out in 1983, 20 years ago. True, it did have the Ewoks, but Ill take those over Jar Jar Binks ANY DAY. And dont forget the first appearance of The Emperor. He was actually a really cool character, who had both the brains and the power to make your truly believe he could rule the universe with Fear and Intimdation. True it may have been the worst of the original SW movies, in my opinion, its still better than the 2 new prequels. YES, even AOTC.

AruthaEvanstil

02/25/2003, 16:34

All right, here we go,

1- Empire of course......So many classic scenes ie. Han/vader in cloud city/battle between father and son. THe best, no contention by most. THe drama, the emotion, the action. This movie brings the original trilogy together into the masterpiece it is.

2-A new hope

3 Jedi- Not a bad movie, but the weakest of the three

Attack of the clones comes next, purely because I know the only reason I liked it was all the lightsabers.....that's all anyone wants to see....lightsabers.......could have been AWESOME had the done a better job casting......the teenage anakin was HORRIBLE!!!! Take for instance the scene after he killed the sand people on tatooine, when he was talking to amadala. This scene could have been tremendous had an actor that could act portrayed the part! THe diolouge was excelleent. I could feel the emotion.....and then...

THe music from empire started.....duh, duh, duh, do, da, duh......chills ran up my spine

This could have been a masterpiece had it not been contaminated by cheap melodrama on the part of anakin!!!!!

Phantom menace just sucked.......good actors with bad lines.....he screwed it up, and he's trying to make up for it........Maul was the only thing the movie had going for it......he's dead now, so is this movie to me....

sluggo

02/25/2003, 16:34

at least we also know that Batman1983 is a Kevin Smith fan (or at least has seen clerks).

jedigeof

02/25/2003, 16:37

Episode III

DS-00-0, FSD

02/25/2003, 16:55

Empire: No other film captured so much characterization without feeling boring. Best cliff-hanger ending.

A New Hope: Self-contained masterpiece.

Attack of the Clones: second best ending. Hearing the Imperial March was cool.

This movie suffered from one main problem: bad director. Padme and Anakin's scene's were all over the place. There was never the consistent "click" that was there in the Han/Leia scenes from Empire. I often wonder if Lucas could never decide if Padme was supposed to be a human being and show feeling, or and aristocrat who is always hiding her feelings. Some times the spark is there, othertimes it's painful to watch the two.

Return of the Jedi: Great editing of the end battle. The inter-twining of all three arena's was superb. Vader's redemption was great, only slightly more surprising than the revelation of Leia's heritage. Plus the only nude scene in Star Wars.:eek: :eek: :eek:

The Phantom Menace: It was too much character development (granted, we needed it as we did not know anyone besides Obi-wan). I liked the movie, but it really did not have a Star Wars-y feel to it. You could have replaced all the characters and never known the difference. AOTC had the clone army that was very reminicent of the first trilogy, but this one just lacked some kind of intangeble relation.:confused:

Batman1983

02/25/2003, 18:41

being in the theatre & watching the last 10 minutes of AotC w/ the march of the clones & the look on Jimmy Smits face... I almost cried. Got the same feeling during Spiderman. Man that was a good movie.

sluggo

02/25/2003, 18:52

I loved it on the AotC DVD commantary when GL was talking about the Death Star and the Genoishos (sp) were the ones who build it and he said "these were the guys Jay and Silentbob were worried about getting killed when the Rebels blew up the Death Star."

Batman1983

02/25/2003, 19:06

He meant Randall & Dante (they were the ones that talked about it). My bro has all KS's movies. I think trooper clerks (a parady) is also hilarious.

qbann4

02/25/2003, 19:58

DONT KILL ME PLEASE DONT NO IM JUST JOKING LOL PROBABLY THE WORST BUT DEFINITLY

EMPIRE

sluggo

02/25/2003, 20:41

Batman1983 - I know it was Dante and Randel (and the roofing contractor) who were talking about death star blowing up and the builders dying, but GL said "jay and silentbob" - He probaly just knows SMith makes movies with those 2 in them and they talk abotu Star Wars a lot.

Kevin Smiths Starwars references
Clerks - Dante, Randle and a contractor talk about how the rebels killed a lot of innocent people who were building the Death Star in Return of the Jedi - a very evil act.

Mallrats - Silentbob keeps trying to do the Jedi mind trick (and at the end thinks he does). His one line in the movie "Adventure, excitement, a Jedi craves not these things".

Chasying Amy - Hooper tells everyone how Star Wars is really about whites keeping blacks down and the "message" of Return of the Jedi is that all Blacks want to be white - very funny ####.

Dogma - Jay talks about the Cantina scene, comparing them to the Star Wars characters. There were also a cut scene were Matt Damon explains how Star Wars is about society v.s Religion.

Jay and Silentbob Strike Back - Many. The title, Both Carrier Fisher and Mark Hamill are in the movie. There is a "bong saber" fight at the end where Mark Hamill gets his hand cut off, Silentbob again does the Jedi Mind Trick. I think thats it

Clerks cartoon - A star wars reference in each episode - saying how a freezer is like Hoth, the spirits of Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin snubbing the Jedi spirit of Charles Barkly etc....

MarkFinn

02/26/2003, 01:09

Originally posted by sluggo
Batman1983 - I know it was Dante and Randel (and the roofing contractor) who were talking about death star blowing up and the builders dying, but GL said "jay and silentbob" - He probaly just knows SMith makes movies with those 2 in them and they talk abotu Star Wars a lot.

Kevin Smiths Starwars references
Clerks - Dante, Randle and a contractor talk about how the rebels killed a lot of innocent people who were building the Death Star in Return of the Jedi - a very evil act.

Mallrats - Silentbob keeps trying to do the Jedi mind trick (and at the end thinks he does). His one line in the movie "Adventure, excitement, a Jedi craves not these things".

Chasying Amy - Hooper tells everyone how Star Wars is really about whites keeping blacks down and the "message" of Return of the Jedi is that all Blacks want to be white - very funny ####.

Dogma - Jay talks about the Cantina scene, comparing them to the Star Wars characters. There were also a cut scene were Matt Damon explains how Star Wars is about society v.s Religion.

Jay and Silentbob Strike Back - Many. The title, Both Carrier Fisher and Mark Hamill are in the movie. There is a "bong saber" fight at the end where Mark Hamill gets his hand cut off, Silentbob again does the Jedi Mind Trick. I think thats it

Clerks cartoon - A star wars reference in each episode - saying how a freezer is like Hoth, the spirits of Yoda, Obi-Wan and Anakin snubbing the Jedi spirit of Charles Barkly etc....

And now completely Spoiled for the people who haven't seen the films, particularly the ones where these topics are big deals. I know it's unlikely on a forum like this that people haven't seen a Kevin Smith movie or two, but still...

Jackalope

02/26/2003, 01:15

If someone hasn't seen those movies by now I dobut it would ruin them. Would it ruin Empire if I say Vader is Lukes father? oops there that 'spoiler' got out! eeik sorry all! no no I was joking...errr....Lukes father is.... umm.... its .. Chewie! thats it!!

MarkFinn

02/26/2003, 01:44

Originally posted by Jackalope
If someone hasn't seen those movies by now I dobut it would ruin them. Would it ruin Empire if I say Vader is Lukes father? oops there that 'spoiler' got out! eeik sorry all! no no I was joking...errr....Lukes father is.... umm.... its .. Chewie! thats it!!

Not THOSE movies, the Kevin Smith movies.

Several of the above-mentions scenes are funny because you don't expect them because no one warned you about them. It's the joy of comedic discovery.

Two scenes in particular are important to the ending of one of the movies with a great joke to cap the film off. Notice that I didn't name which of Kevin Smith's movies, because I didn't want to spoil it for some folks...

Jackalope

02/26/2003, 16:16

I too was talking about the kevin smith ones. They are not new movies and I believe all of those are out on DVD or video for some time now. If someone really 'wanted' to see them they've had plenty of opportunity. If they've waited this long maybe those quotes will actually drive them to want to see them. A few actually did make me want to see them (the chasing amy one for one). I simply used the Empire Strikes back as an example saying since its been out so long is that 'taboo' to reveal also? Once a movie has come out, left the movies and has been out on dvd/video for 6 months or so I think its 'open' to discuss it. Just my view.

osh11102

02/26/2003, 16:23

However, I believe the third that will be coming out in a couple of years will surpass it. I believe What they will do with Han Solo is just going to ROCK.

Too bad Harrison Ford won't be able to do it. Or will he?

Osh

Jackalope

02/26/2003, 16:37

The third trilogy? Last I heard I thought Lucas said he wasn't going to do it. I don't remember where I read it or saw it but he said he'd want to take some time off after this one and each trilogy takes about 10 years to do and he said that even if he did live that long he'd be pushing 80-85 years old and he didn't want to really do that. He actually just gave an interview also that said the stuff he'll do after EP III would really disappoint 'star wars' fans. He was going to do stuff like THX 1138. Just stuff he wanted to do. I'd like to see a third trilogy but I don't think we will. Our "only hope" would be if Lucas dies and his children get the rights and they "Dr. Suess" him and go against his wishes.

Jackalope

02/26/2003, 16:40

d'oh. nm above I see what you were saying. *shrugs*. I hope the 3rd movie rocks too. Seems like they will have a lot to tie up in 2 hours. hehe

sluggo

02/26/2003, 18:47

I didn't post the scenes word for word or anything like that. Thats like saying a trailer spoils a movie because you see a couple of the jokes and know them before you see the movie. Get a life MarkFinn

GL has said for years and years that there was no longer episodes 7-9. When he first made ANH (and for those of you not old enough to remember, back in 1977 is was called Episode 1) he planned on making nine, but when Starwars was a hit and me made Empire Strikes back instead of Splinter of the Minds eye as the second movie (Splinter is now a novel) he re-wrote the movies to fit into 3 movies (he decided in the middle of writing ESB, after he compressed them into 3 movies) that there should be movies before ANH as well. Watch RotJ, its the end of the story. The Empire is defeated, Anakin is redemend, the Jedi have returned - theres no more story left. Its over, done.

bullseye100

02/26/2003, 19:06

:D

EMPIRE

Without a doubt!!!

MarkFinn

02/27/2003, 01:00

Originally posted by sluggo
I didn't post the scenes word for word or anything like that. Thats like
saying a trailer spoils a movie because you see a couple of the jokes and know
them before you see the movie. Get a life MarkFinn

Dude, you gave away part of the dramatic climax (such as it was) to Mallrats.
You even stepped on Silent Bob's shtick. Why couldn't you have just
said, "there's Star Wars references in Every movie Kevin Smith does? Look for
the best one in Mallrats! LOL!" That would have gotten your point across
without blowing a movie. True, we're not talking about Sophie's Choice, here,
but if I say to you not to watch 2010 because the ending is that Saturn
becomes our second sun, I've just ruined the film for you. Doesn't matter if
it's been out for years. Have you seen 2010? Do you want to see it now?

GL has said for years and years that there was no longer episodes 7-
9. When he first made ANH (and for those of you not old enough to remember,
back in 1977 is was called Episode 1) he planned on making nine, but when
Starwars was a hit and me made Empire Strikes back instead of Splinter of the
Minds eye as the second movie (Splinter is now a novel) he re-wrote the movies
to fit into 3 movies (he decided in the middle of writing ESB, after he
compressed them into 3 movies) that there should be movies before ANH as well.
Watch RotJ, its the end of the story. The Empire is defeated, Anakin is
redemend, the Jedi have returned - theres no more story left. Its over, done.

Sluggo, I really wish you had stopped at the first sentence. The rest of this
is just wrong. It just is. I was there, pal. It was originally called episode
IV. Splinter was an Alan Dean Foster thing, not a George Lucas thing. It may
have been based on some notes (maybe even the mythical "outline"), but
Splinter was never supposed to be a movie. Furthermore, he didn't write
Empire. His notes were used to draft the script. Come on, man, you can't
seriously believe that he honestly had all of this stuff planned out
beforehand? That goon has been flying by the seat of his pants ever
since 'Empire.'

Kudger

02/27/2003, 01:22

I believe Jupiter became our second sun in 2010:D

KaiserSelroc

02/27/2003, 01:30

Any more endings anyone wants to give away?

Hmmm....ESB, RotJ, 2010...what next?

Come on guys! Stop the madness before someone says something like at the end of Night of the Living Dead the main character is shot when the militia mistakes him for a zombie!

MarkFinn

02/27/2003, 01:51

Originally posted by Kudger
I believe Jupiter became our second sun in 2010:D

Saturn, Jupiter...it was one of the Roman God planets.

The_Spider44

02/27/2003, 11:02

Star Wars sux, Star Trek is better by far,

MarkFinn

02/27/2003, 11:19

Originally posted by The_Spider44
Star Wars sux, Star Trek is better by far,

If we were on a playground, I would knock you down and take your lunch money.

sluggo

02/27/2003, 11:52

Markfin - don't try to claim you know more about Starwars then I do, its one of the few things I know very well.

If you were ther ein 1977 you would know that ANH was orginally called Episode 1 because the prequels didn't get concived until GL wrote ESB, when he DECIDED to make Vader Luke's father (no, it wasn't all planed out in 1977, he had the idea but it wasn't decided on, which is why the dialog was writen so it could have gone either way).

Splinter of the Minds Eye was writen by Foster to be the sequel to Starwars. He started writing Splinter before Starwars came out, GL had no idea it would be as successful as it was and was thinking if he got make a second one it would have to be low budget. When starwars hit he decided to write ESB (I know he didn't write the screen play, but he did write the story) and turn the series in a trilogoy (at first, then into 2 trilogys). There is no 7,8 or 9.

"Dude, you gave away part of the dramatic climax (such as it was) to Mallrats." - First the movie came out in 1994 or 1995 and has been on t.v dozens of times - most people have seen it. Second I never said HOW he uses it, WHEN he uses it, WHAT he does with it or anything like that. Like I said you must think Trailers ruin movies because they give away some of the jokes or action scenes. As I said before, get a life

Psylockeslover

02/27/2003, 11:57

If we were on a playground, I would knock you down and take your lunch money.

I like Star Trek and all, but id be helpin Mark.....

Kudger

02/27/2003, 11:57

I gotta think that episode III is going to not be a good movie. Think of all the information they're going to have to cram into it and I don't think they can pull it off like they did in ESB. :(

MarkFinn

02/27/2003, 12:07

Originally posted by sluggo
Markfin - don't try to claim you know more about Starwars then I do, its one of the few things I know very well.

Sluggo, if you aren't over thirty, if you didn't dilligently collect the gum cards, the magazines, and the newsletters for every single s#### of information about Star Wars in the seventies, then you have been misled by the spindoctors at LucasArts.

If you were ther ein 1977 you would know that ANH was orginally called Episode 1 because the prequels didn't get concived until GL wrote ESB, when he DECIDED to make Vader Luke's father (not, it wasn't all planed out in 1977, he had the idea but it wasn't decided on, which is why the dialog was writen so it could have gone either way).

No, it wasn't. And please don't use the Sluggo tactic of retyping what you said in the last post to refute this. I was there. I lived through it. It was episode IV right out of the gate. Sorry, young'un, but it was. It wasn't Advertised as episode IV, like the prequels are now, but in the opening crawl, it's called Episode IV-A New Hope.

Originally posted by sluggo
Splinter of the Minds Eye was writen by Foster to be the sequel to Starwars. He started writing Splinter before Starwars came out, GL had no idea it would be as successful as it was and was thinking if he got make a second one it would have to be low budget. When starwars hit he decided to write ESB (I know he didn't write the screen play, but he did write the story) and turn the series in a trilogoy (at first, then into 2 trilogys). There is no 7,8 or 9.

I never said there was a 7, 8, and 9. Where did you think that I had? The original mythical outline said that there would be three trilogies. He never revealed any details about later movies, because he cannibalized his outline to make the first three. He had no idea about what came next. What are YOU talking about?

Originally posted by sluggo
"Dude, you gave away part of the dramatic climax (such as it was) to Mallrats." - First the movie came out in 1994 or 1995 and has been on t.v dozens of times - most people have seen it. Second I never said HOW he uses it, WHEN he uses it, WHAT he does with it or anything like that. Like I said you must think Trailers ruin movies because they give away some of the jokes or action scenes. As I said before, get a life

Actually, Hoss, it does ruin movies when they put climaxes or turning points in the previews. You didn't have to be specific; it was enough that you blew the speaking line and talked about the mind trick actually working. But you didn't think about that. What you were trying to do was in some way prove that you had seen all of the Kevin Smith movies...or prove that you were a bigger Star Trek dork than the rest of us because you caught them. Either way, you were being inconsiderate to the people who maybe had heard of these movies but never seen them (and it does happen, you know). Think before you type. And, to re-emphasize the point, don't retype the above things in some reply post. Type new things. We already covered the above points. Move along...move along...

MarkFinn

02/27/2003, 12:35

Originally posted by Kudger
I gotta think that episode III is going to not be a good movie. Think of all the information they're going to have to cram into it and I don't think they can pull it off like they did in ESB. :(

I think you may be right.
I wish he had pushed onward to do the sequels...where we had no preconceived idea of what was to happen...than go backwards into the prequels, where we all as fans kinda made up our own movies for what we think happened. I think part of the reason why these films aren't clicking for the die-hard fans is because we already know what is supposed to happen. I mean, in my mind, I have a really cool vision of the Clone Wars...and it had nothing to do with the insects. In my mind, I had always invisioned young Annikan to be more of a Lancelot like character. You can imagine MY disappointment. And it's only going to get worse with Episode III.

sluggo

02/27/2003, 13:20

"It was episode IV right out of the gate" - I love it when 14 year olds try to pretend they are older and claim they know what happened before they were born. GL didn't START making his movies int he middle of the story. Since you weren't there do some reason - he didn't "invision" the prequels until he wrote ESB. ANH was Episode 1.

"He had no idea about what came next. What are YOU talking about?" - Just what Foster said about writing the story in an interview. That he orginally susposed to write the sequel Starwars, when it become a huge success it got turned into a novel.

MarkFinn - Until someone comes on here and says "I just rented mallrats and what you said completely ruined the movie for me, get a life.

DTM

02/27/2003, 15:11

Say, remember when this post used to be which SW movie you liked the best? :D

The_Spider44

02/27/2003, 16:50

My good friend Mark, you'd be taking your own lunch money back, if we had hung out together at school, I would've constantly pick-pocketed you for your StarWars cards, hee, hee lol

jus kidding bud, ...Live long and don't use light sabers !

..oh & Psylockelover, how could you help Mark, when your picking your teeth off the ground ?

LivingTribunal

02/27/2003, 17:12

Yeah DTM...I remember that. It was some time ago huh? Those were the days. If i remember correctly it was back in Nineteen dikety two.

NateTG

02/27/2003, 17:38

1. The Empire Strikes back:
A. Because this is the movie of Vader is a Badass. He's really only a lackey in A New Hope (Tarkin) and The Empire Strikes Back (Sidious/Palpatine).
B. Because there is character development. In addition to Vader, you get to see the more Vulnerable aspects of Han, Leia, Luke, Chewy and Calrisian.
C. Because the empire is actually massively overpowering in this one.
2. A New Hope
3. The Return of the Jedi
A. Assault Teddy Bears
4. The Phantom Menace
A. Massively Over-PC
B. Fear the Donut Star
C. Hmm, let's make a space ship that looks like an SR 71, that's really original.
D. Gratuitus and overlong race scene, underwater sequences, and too many fight scenes/effects.
5. Attack of the Clones
A. Almost all of it sucked
B. Clumsy gratuitus and heavy-handed foreshadowing.
?. Episode 6
??. The Star Wars Christmas Special
A. So bad it was actually recalled by Lucas.
B. Chewbacca and his family talking
C. Actually the movie that introduced Bobba Fett.

MarkFinn

02/27/2003, 18:44

Originally posted by sluggo
"It was episode IV right out of the gate" - I love it when 14 year olds try to pretend they are older and claim they know what happened before they were born. GL didn't START making his movies int he middle of the story. Since you weren't there do some reason - he didn't "invision" the prequels until he wrote ESB. ANH was Episode 1.

I'm 33, prat. You didn't read a single link the last time we did thsi dance, did you? See, that's your shortcoming. And, oh yeah, you're still wrong. Feel free to retype what you just wrote yet again, or better yet, rearrange your syntax into something resembling a coherent thought. I'm STILL not sure what are trying to say. But by all means, feel free to be wrong as often and as much as you like. That's completely legal in Canada.

"He had no idea about what came next. What are YOU talking about?" - Just what Foster said about writing the story in an interview. That he orginally susposed to write the sequel Starwars, when it become a huge success it got turned into a novel.

Please go back and reread that article. You've once again jumped to a wrong conclusion.

MarkFinn - Until someone comes on here and says "I just rented mallrats and what you said completely ruined the movie for me, get a life.

Would you please end your next posting with 'get a life' as well? Because it just keeps getting funnier every single time you type it. I'll make you a deal, Slugger: I'll get a life just as soon as you type that you were wrong. Yeah, that's what I thought. You're never wrong.

sluggo

02/27/2003, 22:45

Markfin - I'll make this nice and simple for you, I know you 14 year olds have trouble following sometimes.

In 1975 GL tried to get the rights to Flash Gordon, he couldn't so he decided to write his own space adventure movie. He wrote starwars (some of the earlier drafts are very different, but still pretty cool). In 1977 he made Starwars, Episode 1. At the time it WAS Episode 1 because it was the start of his saga, which at the time was imaged as a 9 movie saga which he never really thought he'd get to finish. He didn't think "mmmmm, I'll make the middle episode first" as Markfin seems to think.

In 1977, before Starwars was released, Foster started to write Splinter of the Minds Eye. GL told him write a script that would be easy to film - not a lot of characters, re-used props and very few locations. However, as we all know, Starwars was one of the biggest hits of all time. GL didn't need to make a simple, inexpensive sequel anymore. So GL started to write the ESB storyline. While he was writing ESB two things happened. 1) he turned his saga into a trilogy instead of a nine move saga. 2) he decided to make Darth Vader Luke's father (it was not always planned out as most people think). Once he made this decision he started to really flush out the backstory. THIS is when the prequels "came into being". It was at this point he turned ANH into Episode 4 and ESB into episode 5. Go pick up some Starwars insiders, the Annotated screen plays and finds some interviews, learn about what your talking about, then come talk me.

Wyldstaar

02/27/2003, 23:11

Ah, childhood memories... How easily they become distorted through the years. It's quite common, and nothing to be ashamed of. I've met people who were totally conviced that they'd seen a 'special edition' of Star Wars: ANH that contained the cut scene with Luke and Biggs at Anchorhead on Tatooine back in '77. That's the beauty of Star Wars. It fires the imagination to the point where we can simply read a few paragraphs in a novel and we can envision it as though we'd really seen it.

Star Wars: ANH has ALWAYS been called Episode IV. It wasn't changed after ESB was released. Lucas always had a vague idea of what Episodes I-III were about. They were part of his original story. I've read it. It's in the book Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays. It's a terrible book by the way. It's horribly edited so that one has to read it three or four times just to make sense of it in regards to ANH and earlier. The original Star Wars being called Episode IV is not some vast conspiracy to re-write history. That would be silly, and it's too easy to refute. Thousands of copies of the original Star Wars film were created. Many of them still exist today. All of them say Episode IV. You don't have to re-number the movies in order to do a prequel. If you want to make a prequel to a popular movie, you just do it. It's no big deal. You gotta lighten up Sluggo. In the end, it doesn't really matter.

MarkFinn

02/27/2003, 23:54

Originally posted by sluggo
Markfin - I'll make this nice and simple for you, I know you 14 year olds have trouble following sometimes.

In 1975 GL tried to get the rights to Flash Gordon, he couldn't so he decided to write his own space adventure movie. He wrote starwars (some of the earlier drafts are very different, but still pretty cool). In 1977 he made Starwars, Episode 1. At the time it WAS Episode 1 because it was the start of his saga, which at the time was imaged as a 9 movie saga which he never really thought he'd get to finish. He didn't think "mmmmm, I'll make the middle episode first" as Markfin seems to think.

In 1977, before Starwars was released, Foster started to write Splinter of the Minds Eye. GL told him write a script that would be easy to film - not a lot of characters, re-used props and very few locations. However, as we all know, Starwars was one of the biggest hits of all time. GL didn't need to make a simple, inexpensive sequel anymore. So GL started to write the ESB storyline. While he was writing ESB two things happened. 1) he turned his saga into a trilogy instead of a nine move saga. 2) he decided to make Darth Vader Luke's father (it was not always planned out as most people think). Once he made this decision he started to really flush out the backstory. THIS is when the prequels "came into being". It was at this point he turned ANH into Episode 4 and ESB into episode 5. Go pick up some Starwars insiders, the Annotated screen plays and finds some interviews, learn about what your talking about, then come talk me.

You are mistaken. You just are. You are incorrect. Your infomation is faulty. It is wrong.

I lived through all of this in the seventies and eighties. I'm sorry, but I remember it all clearly; it was pretty much all I did until I was thirteen years old. If you don't want to believe people who know from first-hand experience, that's fine. I can't make you believe that you are wrong any more than I can convince a flat-Earther of the error of his ways. People who think Oswald acted alone have no trouble holding down jobs, driving cars, and in other ways contributing to society. But they are just as wrong as you. No, scratch that. You are more wrong than them. They don't nearly as much evidence against them as you do.

You are in error. And I just don't have the patience to deal with you any more.

sluggo

02/27/2003, 23:58

"It wasn't changed after ESB was released. Lucas always had a vague idea of what Episodes I-III were about. They were part of his original story. I've read it. It's in the book Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays" - I stopped reading your post right there. If you really read the books you would know thats not true and the prequels weren't "included" in his saga until he started writing ESB and he really flushed out the backstory. Starwars, released in 1977 was called Episode 1 until 1980 when ESB was released.

"They don't nearly as much evidence against them as you do" - Strange you have yet to give any.

Kudger

02/28/2003, 00:19

I gotta say Sluggo, it was always episode IV, I wasn't alive back then but I asked my dad way back when, when I though "hey, why did they make episode IV first? Was it something they edited later on?" You know what my dad said, since he watched it many times in theaters? He said it was always episode IV. That's 1st hand experience working against you. It seems that by popular opinion you are wrong, if you have some evidence you'd like to share with us, quotes of GL or anything like that, then be my guest.

DTM

02/28/2003, 06:23

Actually, Im pretty sure that ANH wasnt Epsiode 4 til after ESB. Remember, GL had no idea how well ANH would do, and at its release had no set plans to makes sequels. So it really wouldnt have made much sense making it Episode 4, if it turned out to be the only one he made. Im 31 years old, I dont actually remember this, but I do speak VERY regularly with someone who is nothing short of a SW FANATIC. Hes in his low 40s, so hes certainly old enough to remember, and according to him, during the original release of ANH, it was NOT subheaded Episode 4.

sluggo

02/28/2003, 11:04

Kudger - You can out and but the annotated screen plays, its all in there. The its states that GL didn't really flush out the backstory until he wrote ESB and it was AT THAT POINT that he decided to make ESB episode 5 and ANH episode 4. Before that ANH was episode 1. As DTM pointed out (and this is common sense) why would he make episode 4 first?

Jack Squat

02/28/2003, 11:24

Originally posted by Kudger
I gotta say Sluggo, it was always episode IV, I wasn't alive back then but I asked my dad way back when, when I though "hey, why did they make episode IV first? Was it something they edited later on?" You know what my dad said, since he watched it many times in theaters? He said it was always episode IV. That's 1st hand experience working against you. It seems that by popular opinion you are wrong, if you have some evidence you'd like to share with us, quotes of GL or anything like that, then be my guest.

With all due respect to your dad, he's remembering it wrong. I saw Star Wars three times in the theatres in 1977, and it did not have the "Episode IV: A New Hope" title at the beginning. That was added at its rerelease after The Empire Strikes Back was made.

If you're still not convinced, a little research on the web will confirm this for you. Here are two sites that mention it:

http://www.happening.com.sg/film/features/1997/archive/starwars/index2.html

http://www.sfsite.com/11b/sw140.htm
(see third paragraph)

... there are lots of others.