Jervis Tetch and Redundant Powers

[Gargantua]

Recently obtained a Jervis Tetch LE. First thing I noticed was he had Incapacitate in addition to Mind Control. First thought was "Well that gives him a bit more options."

Then I realized, for the extra points you're paying for Incapacitate, it's an utterly redundant power. Incapacitate you roll an attack and if successful, you give the opposing figure an action token. With Mind Control, for the exact same attack roll, you give the opposing figure an action token - but you also get to take the action with the figure!

What were they thinking when they did this? Can anyone think of any possible reason to ever use incapacitate instead of mind control? I suppose if the opposing character has no valid targets and you like him positioned right where he is, but even then Mind Control him, move him one space away and then back. Same effect.

[WarHULK]

Well, for one, you can Inc. someone who is over 100 pts. so you don't take a click of damage for MCing him.

Also, MC is a ranged attack where Inc. can be either ranged of Close combat. This means if someone gets in base to base contact with you Inc. will work when MC will not.

[Pip the Troll]

the first part is right baout the 100 pts thing but MC can be a close combat or ranged combat action


Mind Control is a twostep process. First, use your figure with Mind Control to make a ranged or close combat attack against an opponent. If successful, you may give that figure an action, as though it were yours.

thats from the wizkids site under FAQ but it also will tell u that in your PAC

but other than the 100 pts issue the 2 powers do seem quite redundant.

cheers

[Grendel]

You can also Incapacitate someone that has Battle Fury.

[dolemite199]

WarHULK wrote,

Also, MC is a ranged attack where Inc. can be either ranged of Close combat. This means if someone gets in base to base contact with you Inc. will work when MC will not.

Straight from the FAQ

Mind Control is a twostep process. First, use your figure with Mind Control to make a ranged or close combat attack against an opponent. If successful, you may give that figure an action, as though it were yours.

MC can be used while in B2B or at ranged just like incapacitate. The benefits of having both MC and Incapacitate are two fold. First, if you do not want to take a click for MC'ing a figure over 100pts you can incapacitate them. Second, a figure with Battle Fury is immune to MC attacks, but you can still incapacitate them. A figure with both of those super powers is much more dangerous than a figure with one or the other.

Hope this helps

[Gargantua]

Thanks. A few ideas I had overlooked there.

Any other uses?

[Mjolnir]

One more thing not mentioned....kinda important...
If you have 1 more action....you can use incapacitate and give them a token. that only takes 1 action.....mind Control takes two actions......sometimes all you have is 1 action.

[JayThor]

Positive for Incap- pushing a character over 100 points.
Positive for MC- using an opponents character to attack and possibly damage his own people.

[Nickel97]

Mind Control does not take two actions or, rather, it does not cost two of your alloted actions-per-turn.

[Funky Jett]

Originally posted by Mjolnir
One more thing not mentioned....kinda important...
If you have 1 more action....you can use incapacitate and give them a token. that only takes 1 action.....mind Control takes two actions......sometimes all you have is 1 action.

Hammer Boy... Mind Control costs your figure one action token. The second token goes on your opponents figure and comes from his actions (although it doesn't reduce the number of actions he has on his turn).

Hope that helps!

[shin-goji]

I have to agree. Look at it this way.

Spiral will make very short work of Tetch. Use Incapacitate and see if she's stupid enough to push.

Then you could Incapacitate someone who is not close enough to Mind Control effectively. Spiral turning on her teammate is only effective if she's next to her teammate.

[JayThor]

Originally posted by shin-goji
I have to agree. Look at it this way.

Spiral will make very short work of Tetch. Use Incapacitate and see if she's stupid enough to push.

Then you could Incapacitate someone who is not close enough to Mind Control effectively. Spiral turning on her teammate is only effective if she's next to her teammate.
You mean the taxi that 90% of people use to haul her and others around? It happens all the time around here.

[WarHULK]

Sorry about the MC being ranged thing. I was reading it off the old Marvel PAC which says it is a ranged attack and says nothing about close combat. This is good news to me because I always thought MC was useless once someone got in BtB with my MC figure. Look at that, you learn something new every day.

[shin-goji]

Originally posted by JayThor

You mean the taxi that 90% of people use to haul her and others around? It happens all the time around here.

What game are YOU playing? Spiral can't be taxi'd.

[WarHULK]

Also, another positive for MC is the ability to stategicly place the opponent. No, you may not be able to attack someone else on the team that turn but you might be able to get a group of guys together and blast them with a good dose of EE or something.

[shin-goji]

I think, again, the advantage to having incap is the ability to take away actions without suffering the 100 point damage cap. Think of it as a bop gun you keep in reserve. It adds versatility, like having RCE and RS on the same click.

[SimonMoon5]

The other advantage is that Outwit doesn't do as much good against Jervis. If you Outwit his Mind Control, he can still Incapacitate you.

[Ghost_Rider]

Mind Control has to be both ranged and close combat attacks since some Mind Controllers have a range of 0..

Ghost

[JayThor]

Originally posted by shin-goji


What game are YOU playing? Spiral can't be taxi'd.
I'm playing Heroclix, how about you? j/k
I didn't mean Spiral specifically, I haven't even seen one around here, and I don't know her dial. I meant that you can MC the person being taxied to attack his own taxi.

[tidge]

Don't forget, since the LE's range is 4, it can be Perplexed up. The REV version have range 0, so Perplex can't increase the range over four (unless you have 5 perplexers!)

[webhead817]

So, to sum up...

Incapcitate doesn't cause clicks of damage to the attacker for each 100 pts. like Mind Control does

Incapcitate works against characters with Battle Fury

The redundancy helps against Outwit (sort of like Super Strength and Close Combat Expert on Bane/Doomsday)

Also, the way the rules work now, Incapcitate can take advantage of Enhancement/SHIELD, Mind Control can't (unless there is a critical hit)

[grubby91]

----edit-----

my bad

----edit end----

[webhead817]

grubby, re-read the first line of Mind Control after the bold part...