New ATAs and Floor

[Sentinel25]

Do the new ATAs for BatB change the cost of the characters; if applied to BatB characters would the combined cost count towards filling the floor requirement or not?

[Quebbster]

Nothing changes the actual costs of the characters, but anything from B&B counts towards the Floor quota.

[flatmatt]

Nothing changes the actual costs of the characters, but anything from B&B counts towards the Floor quota.
I had kind of figured that the new ATAs lived in kind of a setless void since they don't have set symbols and don't directly replace the previous feat cards. Is this not the case? (I can certainly see a local judge allowing it, but I wouldn't be so sure at an event like GenCon.)

[Quebbster]

I had kind of figured that the new ATAs lived in kind of a setless void since they don't have set symbols and don't directly replace the previous feat cards. Is this not the case? (I can certainly see a local judge allowing it, but I wouldn't be so sure at an event like GenCon.)

Given that I am strictly a local judge with not a whole lot of respect for official formats (sorry...), I can't really answer that question with any certainty.

[Questions]

I had kind of figured that the new ATAs lived in kind of a setless void since they don't have set symbols and don't directly replace the previous feat cards. Is this not the case? (I can certainly see a local judge allowing it, but I wouldn't be so sure at an event like GenCon.)

nbperp is looking into this issue and will post a response once he has one.

[nbperp]

ATAs are available to be used in all formats. ATAs are not considered part of any set in terms of calculating for Floor format events.

[Jarimy123]

nbperp is looking into this issue and will post a response once he has one.

Are you Norm's personal assistant? That would be awesome.

[Questions]

Are you Norm's personal assistant? That would be awesome.

:laugh: No. I had asked him the question and that's what he told me. So I figured I would pass it along.

[Jarimy123]

:laugh: No. I had asked him the question and that's what he told me. So I figured I would pass it along.

Man that would have been freaking sweet. Ah well hahaha.

[nbperp]

I would looooove a personal assisstant.

[Questions]

I would looooove a personal assisstant.

Does it pay in chase figures?

[Quebbster]

I would looooove a personal assisstant.

Ain't that the whole point of the Deputies? :)

[JRS4]

Since we are talking about ATA's....

I'm sure this has been asked but I honestly don't want to search through the myriad of other ATA threads to possibly find this answer.

Since the new ATA's are not Feats do they still replace the old Feat based ATA's?

If no are you still able to use the old Feat based ATA's in the appropriate game format following the rules on the cards and allowing for the Feat Cap?

[nbperp]

Since we are talking about ATA's....

I'm sure this has been asked but I honestly don't want to search through the myriad of other ATA threads to possibly find this answer.

Since the new ATA's are not Feats do they still replace the old Feat based ATA's?

If no are you still able to use the old Feat based ATA's in the appropriate game format following the rules on the cards and allowing for the Feat Cap?

No. The feats are gone. They are replaced by the ATAs. Your local judge may allow you to use the feats as proxies, but the black-bordered ATAs are the "approved" Print-N-Play version of what you should use.

[Puuka]

I'm surprised it hasn't been asked as to when we will get official WK Print and Play versions of the Marvel ATA cards? I like mine and all, but if an event judge wanted to be a stickler, they could not allow you to use it. (BTW, I'm ok if WK wants to use the ones I've made in a more official manner, just let me know and I can add any fine print/remove picture components

[Questions]

No. The feats are gone. They are replaced by the ATAs. Your local judge may allow you to use the feats as proxies, but the black-bordered ATAs are the "approved" Print-N-Play version of what you should use.

And it's even in the Player's Guide:

The following feat cards are banned as they have been replaced by an Alternate Team Ability card: Alpha Flight, Amazon, Checkmate, Fantastic Four, Green Lantern, Guardians of the Galaxy, Justice League International, League of Assassins, Legionnaires, Monster Society of Evil, Runaways, The Society, Squadron Supreme, and Thunderbolts

I'm surprised it hasn't been asked as to when we will get official WK Print and Play versions of the Marvel ATA cards? I like mine and all, but if an event judge wanted to be a stickler, they could not allow you to use it. (BTW, I'm ok if WK wants to use the ones I've made in a more official manner, just let me know and I can add any fine print/remove picture components

I did ask in a roundabout way. :) Check post 8 (http://www.hcrealms.com/forum/showthread.php?t=282110) for nbperp's response.

[JRS4]

No. The feats are gone. They are replaced by the ATAs. Your local judge may allow you to use the feats as proxies, but the black-bordered ATAs are the "approved" Print-N-Play version of what you should use.

Thanks for the answer. I'm sorry I had to ask. I've just been so busy at work and home that I have not had a chance to read the new Players guide or even the new Rule book yet.

I know... Shame on me. Please don't beat me with a wet noodle.

[TopDog]

Ain't that the whole point of the Deputies? :)

I thought the point of Deputies was to take bullets for the Sheriff. :nervous:

[nbperp]

I thought the point of Deputies was to take bullets for the Sheriff. :nervous:

I'm tagging this thread as an "RA favorite". As per this thread, I should have an assistant as well as deputies jumping in front of bullets for me!

AWESOMENESS.

[Questions]

I'm tagging this thread as an "RA favorite". As per this thread, I should have an assistant as well as deputies jumping in front of bullets for me!

AWESOMENESS.

GenCon must be dangerous.

[Uniquist]

"Nerf Bullet Barrage AWAY!!!"

"Sir, his personal assistants took every hit."

"Fire AGAIN until they get through!"



.....to be heard at GenCon.

[camoseven]

I'm pretty new to Heroclix, so I'm not sure I understand this correctly. Are you saying that ATA points don't count toward the 10% point limit for feats?

To clarify my question with an example: In a 300 point game, could I legally take 250 point of figures, 25 points of feats, and 25 points of ATAs, since the ATAs don't count towards the 10% feat limit?

[bludd72]

I'm pretty new to Heroclix, so I'm not sure I understand this correctly. Are you saying that ATA points don't count toward the 10% point limit for feats?

To clarify my question with an example: In a 300 point game, could I legally take 250 point of figures, 25 points of feats, and 25 points of ATAs, since the ATAs don't count towards the 10% feat limit?


not sure this is possible. first of all a team can have only one ATA in it. and none of em cost 25 points. that being said, ATA's are not feats so in a weird technical way that isn't at all right, you could do what you asked. except for the thing i said at the start.

[ShadowMark]

not sure this is possible. first of all a team can have only one ATA in it. and none of em cost 25 points. that being said, ATA's are not feats so in a weird technical way that isn't at all right, you could do what you asked. except for the thing i said at the start.

What was stated is correct. You could have 25 points of ATA's and 25 points of feats. An ATA is not a feat and does not count toward the 10% feat rule.

Now, an ATA is not 25 points, but if one is 5 points and the 300 point force had 5 figures on it, the ATA would count as 25 points of the force

[Questions]

not sure this is possible. first of all a team can have only one ATA in it. and none of em cost 25 points. that being said, ATA's are not feats so in a weird technical way that isn't at all right, you could do what you asked. except for the thing i said at the start.

To elaborate on what ShadowMark said...

From the Player's Guide:
Alternate Team Abilities must be used and costed for all qualified team members on your force.

So if you have the Green Lantern Honor Guard ATA on your force along with 5 characters with the Green Lantern Corps keyword and 2 other characters without the Green Lantern Corps keyword then it would cost 25 points for the Green Lantern Honor Guard ATA.

[jak7890]

Nothing changes the actual costs of the characters...

Except Shazam! & Black Adam's trait. Or the starting line of Colossals. :p

[Jreal24]

Maybe this has been answered somewhere already, but this was something I wasn't sure about so I'll ask here.

Since ATA's are no longer considered feats, do the points used to assign them to your force count towards the 10% rule?


I also have a more specific question regarding how special powers are worded.

If a special power states that you can "use" a standard power, then you do not "posses" the actual power, correct?

Therefore you can not rely on the ability to "use" that power to fulfill a feat's prerequisite.

I'm just trying to clarify if it is a tournament legal option to use Brilliant Tactician on Mr. Fantastic (SI) in order to perplex +2/-2 to all qualifying targets. I'm pretty sure the answer is that it's not legal, but wanted some verification.

Thanks

[Quebbster]

Maybe this has been answered somewhere already, but this was something I wasn't sure about so I'll ask here.

Since ATA's are no longer considered feats, do the points used to assign them to your force count towards the 10% rule?
Right. ATAs aren't feats anymore.
I also have a more specific question regarding how special powers are worded.

If a special power states that you can "use" a standard power, then you do not "posses" the actual power, correct?
Correct.
Therefore you can not rely on the ability to "use" that power to fulfill a feat's prerequisite.
Incorrect.
In order to be assigned a feat, the character must be able to use the prequisite power or ability.
Being able to use a power is sufficient to fulfill feat prereqs.
I'm just trying to clarify if it is a tournament legal option to use Brilliant Tactician on Mr. Fantastic (SI) in order to perplex +2/-2 to all qualifying targets. I'm pretty sure the answer is that it's not legal, but wanted some verification.
Totally legal and very potent.

[normalview]

Since ATA's are no longer considered feats, do the points used to assign them to your force count towards the 10% rule?

They are not feats, so no.


If a special power states that you can "use" a standard power, then you do not "posses" the actual power, correct?

Depends on the specific wording, but generally you'd be correct. Possess =/= use.

Therefore you can not rely on the ability to "use" that power to fulfill a feat's prerequisite.

Incorrect. BN, page 19:

In order to be assigned a feat, the character must be able to use the prequisite power or ability. If the character uses the prerequisite power through a power or ability that is not a standard or named power, the prerequisite power must be named by the game effect specifically. A special power that allows a character to use “any standard power” does not satistfy the prerequisites for a feat. The character does not need to possess the prerequisites on the first click of its dial to be assigned the feat, only to use it (see below).

I'm just trying to clarify if it is a tournament legal option to use Brilliant Tactician on Mr. Fantastic (SI) in order to perplex +2/-2 to all qualifying targets. I'm pretty sure the answer is that it's not legal, but wanted some verification.

Perfectly legal. He can use Perplex.

[Jreal24]

Yuck I have to deal with that every week in our local venue.
A guy plays 2 Mr Fantastics like that.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Behemoth]

Do ATAs count towards the point value that the 10% of feats allowed?

IE...
250 points of characters
20 points of ATA
=270 points

Can I use 27 points of feats, or 25? Or have I been out the game so long that the 10% is now calculated on the total build allowance?

[Questions]

Do ATAs count towards the point value that the 10% of feats allowed?

IE...
250 points of characters
20 points of ATA
=270 points

Can I use 27 points of feats, or 25? Or have I been out the game so long that the 10% is now calculated on the total build allowance?

The 10% cap has always been based on the build total. So in a 300 point game it would be 30 points of feats.

From p. 19 of the Blackest Night Rulebook:
The combined point value of feats included in your force can be no more than 10% of the game’s build total. For example, in a standard 300-point game, you are allowed a maximum of 30 points of feats in your force.

[Quebbster]

Do ATAs count towards the point value that the 10% of feats allowed?

IE...
250 points of characters
20 points of ATA
=270 points

Can I use 27 points of feats, or 25? Or have I been out the game so long that the 10% is now calculated on the total build allowance?
ATAs are not feats, so the are unaffected by the 10% rule.
And the 10% is of the build total, so you would be able to add 30 points of feats, assuming it is a 300 point build.

[UncannyAvenger]

Awesome to read this thread- I was trying to figure out how to do a good 500pt Thunderbolts team, but couldn't figure out how adding the ATA worked into the mix with the new rules and whatnot.

Kudos and thanks to everyone who contributed!