Outsiders TA question

[Krueger666]

Hi, guys!

This came up in today's tournament and there were diverse opinions about it, so here goes:

How does the Outsiders TA affects my opponent's Perplex?

My opponent perplexes his defense during his turn. On the beginning of my turn, I "Outsider" that character. Is the Perplex still in effect or does it go away, since it's a modifier?

[normalview]

Hi, guys!

This came up in today's tournament and there were diverse opinions about it, so here goes:

How does the Outsiders TA affects my opponent's Perplex?

My opponent perplexes his defense during his turn. On the beginning of my turn, I "Outsider" that character. Is the Perplex still in effect or does it go away, since it's a modifier?

Perplex is still used (the character doesn't get it back to use again), but it just has no effect.

A character hit with Outsiders can't have it combat values modified. Period. Doesn't matter (anymore) what caused the modifier, it just doesn't have any effect.

OUTSIDERS
Once at the beginning of your turn as a free action, characters using the Outsiders team ability may choose a character (including itself) within 10 squares to which it has a clear line of fire. Until the beginning of your next turn, the target’s combat values can’t be modified. This team ability can’t be used by wild cards.


See? Nothing says Perplex (or any other modifier) is exempt. "Can't be modified" means "can't be modified".

[Krueger666]

Perplex is still used (the character doesn't get it back to use again), but it just has no effect.

A character hit with Outsiders can't have it combat values modified. Period. Doesn't matter (anymore) what caused the modifier, it just doesn't have any effect.

OUTSIDERS
Once at the beginning of your turn as a free action, characters using the Outsiders team ability may choose a character (including itself) within 10 squares to which it has a clear line of fire. Until the beginning of your next turn, the target’s combat values can’t be modified. This team ability can’t be used by wild cards.


See? Nothing says Perplex (or any other modifier) is exempt. "Can't be modified" means "can't be modified".

My thoughts exactly. I just couldn't explain it clearly to my opponents.

Thank you very much!

[Krueger666]

Actually, to be clear, I did say exactly that to my opponents.

But their arguement (which seemed a valid one) was that the Outsiders effects started at the beginning of my turn and ended at the end of their turn (when my next turn begins). So, the combat values were only "locked" (pardon the expression) during that period and those who were modified (by Perplex, in this case) before the Outsiders effect triggered were still in effect.

The example was like this:

Opponent turn 1a)

Perplex on Batman's defense

My turn 1b)

Outsider TA on Batman

What they were saying is during turn 1b (mine) and turn 2a (theirs) the values could not be modified, but what happened in turn 1a was still in effect.

Confusing? Sorry, it's my English.

But now you've made it very clear! Thanks!

[normalview]

Irrelevant. While the character is under the effect of Outsiders, it's combat value can not be modified. Doesn't matter if the modifier is ES/D that it possessed on its first click at the very beginning of the game, or if it is a modifier that just happened.

Combat values can't be modified.



And if they still argue the point, make sure to note that modifiers (of any variety) don't really matter until the combat value in question is actually used. See the whole 'Rule of Three' and 'Replace then modify' sections in the rule book for more on the specific timing of modifiers.

[Krueger666]

Irrelevant. While the character is under the effect of Outsiders, it's combat value can not be modified. Doesn't matter if the modifier is ES/D that it possessed on its first click at the very beginning of the game, or if it is a modifier that just happened.

Combat values can't be modified.

Thank you again, dear sir!